Saturday, January 27, 2007

Fundamentalism in any form

I just finished watching the film 'Jesus Camp', honestly, it wasn't that shocking, and really did not show true Christian fundamnetalism at it's extreme. It focused mainly on the children, which was it's purpose. But it does give you a window into the concept of fundamentalism. Much the same way that 'Banking on Heaven' did for the FLDS.

1. You are chosen specially, and other people do not have your special understanding, insight and prophetic red line to God.
2. You begin by feeling pitty towards others, and it turns into superiority, as you embrace your 'special calling'.
3. Your committment to your belief is evidenced in everything that you do, eating, sleeping, breathing and working and other see your devotion.
4. You do not allow yourself to question the words given to you by your leaders. Your trust in them is unparrallelled.
5. You are intolerant of anyone who does not support your beliefs or views.

It becomes about Gods laws, not Gods love as it moves across the spectrum of fundamentalism. What started as something good slowly twists into an unrecognizable form of what began. It's brittle and hard, and splinters easily. A force big enough will crush it, but it will always survive, in the razor sharp shards it leaves behind.

43 comments:

Anonymous said...

I know this is on the wrong thread, but I need to know if the "Veta Barlow" who died is Aunt Veda Barlow Johnson. I asked on the other thread, but apparently it's not being viewed any more.

Anonymous said...

No it is not the same as Aunt Veda. Veda Barlow is a small (6 years old?) child of Sam Y and Annette Steed Barlow, that was playing in the yard with a rope, and was accidently strangled in the swings. She was a beautiful child, and much loved by her family. They are in mourning and need your prayers, as any family that has lost a child does.

It seems to me that a lot of the people on this blog think that the FLDS are heartless baby killers that regularly bury their children for what ever reason. I know that Flora's stories have a lot to do with this impression. Please, people! Understand that the FLDS are people just like you, and they love their children just like you love yours! Maybe even more! That is the one of the main objects of their religion! To raise families and live in service to God. (Realizing, of course, that the definition of the word service is subject to the INTERPRETATION of the SERVER, which may or may not be the same as YOUR definition of service!!) If we bloggers would try to see the human similarities in the FLDS as we do in other human beings, (races, sexual orientations, etc. etc.) maybe they would reach out to us! But when this is the treatment they get, what do you expect them to do? Would YOU reach out to those that judge YOU for your religion? I doubt it. C'mon people!

Anonymous said...

Very well said.

ATAR_i said...

1:12 - where did that come from?

Someone asked if it was the same Veda Barlow, and you went on a rant - what's that all about?

Joseph Rohbock said...

Atari, your post was very well written. I couldn't have described it any better.

The problem with treating everyone out the creek the same as everyone else is;
1. They won't fight for their cause.
2. They won't obey the laws of the land. They think they are exempt, and better than everyone else.
3. They have no love for anyone that doesn't believe in the same exact thing they believe in. Blood or not. If you are not one of them, you are not worth the powder to blow you to hell. I heard those exact words uttered by their "Prophet" about a family member that had left.

So that being said, it's kinda hard to give them the same respect as everyone else. I know I lived there for 23 years.

Anonymous said...

. (They have no love for anyone that doesn't believe in the same exact thing they believe in. Blood or not. If you are not one of them, you are not worth the powder to blow you to hell. I heard those exact words uttered by their "Prophet" about a family member that had left.)
What a Liar You just made that up. Shame on you. That was never said. You excite hate and prejudice to enfuriate society all at the expense of your little tiny brain. Maybe it would have been better that you never were born or a mill stone hung around your neck and thrown in the depths of the sea to allow your bigated comments to instill the hatred that is all ready purpetuated by people like you. Angels are Angels because they are Angels and Devils are Devils because they are Devils.

ex creeker said...

I left 20+ years ago, and I heard the same thing more then once. If you are out then you are not worth the air you breath.

Anonymous said...

Anon 1:40 -

You called Joseph a liar when he quoted the prophet as saying if you are not one of them, "you are not worth the powder to blow you to hell".

But then in the same breath, you said:
"Maybe it would have been better that you never were born or a mill stone hung around your neck and thrown in the depths of the sea to allow your bigated comments to instill the hatred that is all ready purpetuated by people like you. Angels are Angels because they are Angels and Devils are Devils because they are Devils."

What you said sounds eerily similar to what Joseph related hearing from the "prophet."

Why then, do you think he's lieing? And why are you so defensive?

Anonymous said...

By the way, Joseph, I'm glad you are posting here, and am happy to hear you seem to be doing well. You have friends here. Take care.

Anonymous said...

Doctrine & Covenants 121
16 Cursed are all those that shall lift up the heel against mine anointed, saith the Lord, and cry they have sinned when they have not sinned before me, saith the Lord, but have done that which was meet in mine eyes, and which I commanded them.
17 But those who cry transgression do it because they are the servants of sin, and are the children of disobedience themselves.
18 And those who swear falsely against my servants, that they might bring them into bondage and death—
19 Wo unto them; because they have offended my little ones they shall be severed from the ordinances of mine house.
20 Their basket shall not be full, their houses and their barns shall perish, and they themselves shall be despised by those that flattered them.
21 They shall not have right to the priesthood, nor their posterity after them from generation to generation.
22 It had been better for them that a millstone had been hanged about their necks, and they drowned in the depth of the sea.
23 Wo unto all those that discomfort my people, and drive, and murder, and testify against them, saith the Lord of Hosts; a generation of vipers shall not escape the damnation of hell.
24 Behold, mine eyes see and know all their works, and I have in reserve a swift judgment in the season thereof, for them all;
25 For there is a time appointed for every man, according as his works shall be.

Joseph Rohbock said...

The person he said that about was my sister. If you don't believe me, I know several other people who have heard the same thing and will testify to it. But that is beside the point. The same things that you said about me I have heard said also about people that leave.

I am not trying to incite hatred into the hearts of people. I am telling the facts as I have seen them. If you know me or knew me at all then you know that I was as loyal or true to that religion as anyone ever was. You say that angels are angels, and devils are devils. What is your definition of an angel? A man who will tear apart families, telling them to never talk to brothers or sisters, or PARENTS ever again? A man who will tell mothers and children that their husband and father is one of the greatest enemies of the religion when he has done nothing but build up that man and religion? Pray tell? I must be a little confused on my definitions, because I hear that angels are the messengers of God sent to spread LOVE and kindness, and do good works. But who knows, I've been wrong before!!

Anonymous said...

Living Hope Ministries website. This is the video they are working on.
"Behind The Veil of Polygamy"
What does polygamy have to do with Mormonism? Who is living true Mormonism...Gordon Hinckley or Warren Jeffs? A short teaser of Living Hope Ministries' new feature-length documentary on Mormon polygamy, due for release this spring.
http://www.lhvm.org/index2.htm

ATAR_i said...

1:40 - why would Josephs words be deemed a lie, when you yourself, in defense of this 'stated lie', made equally repugnant remarks.

Your post confirms, and supports his allegation that the prophet would say such a thing.

Flesh to flesh, human to human, spirit to spirit, your post was filled with hate and judgement, and no love nor worthiness can be gleaned from your words. Filth.

ATAR_i said...

The scripture, used to bash a joseph over the head is NOT yours to use against him.

(I don't actually believe it's scripture, but if I did...)

It's clearly god, who gets to judge, not YOU, clearly god who gets to state who will burn in hell - NOT YOU.

You make yourself out to be god, to be higher than him or your own prophet if you can utter such statements, for you know not what is in the heart of a man, and with your own words, more likely condemn yourself than him.

For if you are righteous with your speaking evil upon someone, then Joseph Smith must have been the most vile man to walk the earth. I don't believe he was, and I don't believe your viper tongue would have been pleasing to the victorian, conservative pioneers of your own faith.

Wake up, the truth is not in you.

the_lerker said...

Yes absolutely. Thank you Joseph. The truth comes out and it has set us free. Only those that have the courage to stand up for what they know is right will see that the FLDS are as blind as a bat as to what their mission on earth is.

Thank you Atari for starting this thread, I couldn't have said it any better. As an ex-creeker, I lived there and understood their logic as well as anyone for 23 long years, but as an outsider, it is interesting to find that there are so many people that have the same logic as the FLDS.

My religion is belief and service to God, not other peoples' opinions.

Anonymous said...

1/28/2007 1:40 AM

do I hear echoes of OTS?
I personaly heard one of the preisthood council thunder from the pulpit, (sometime in the 1970s)"all apostates and gentiles, in the eyes of god,are nothing more than dogs and cats and cowes and horses,and there already dead!"....so, joseph,I know your not lying.

uncaduff

Anonymous said...

Atar_i:

Thank you for starting this thread. I have been “lurking” a bit lately, and this thread has caused me to break my silence.

Your last statements in the beginning comments are dead on. In fundamentalism (particularly the FLDS) it is all about "rules, and right to rule", not about love.

The Lord is about love, not control. Does He have rules? Yes. Does he force anyone to obey these rules? No. Are there consequences for breaking the rules? Yes. Does He still love the rule breaker? Yes! Have we not heard the story of the Shepard who left the 99 sheep (those who hadn’t broken the rules) to find and bring back the one that was lost (the rule breaker)? Does that sound like the love that the current FLDS leadership has for the people? Does that sound like the love that the anonymous poster has for Joseph, I don’t think so.

From my observation, which may be wrong, the only love you will find in the FLDS leadership and diehard followers is conditional love which isn't really love at all. I know, I have observed it all my life, and I still live out here and I’m still involved in many of the “projects”.


uncaduff:
It sounded more like CTR than OTS, but it couldn't be ctr because he said he would no longer be posting.


IITMOC

ATAR_i said...

As most of you know, I did not grow up FLDS, but grew up with fundamentalism of another kind.

And when I watched that 7 year old girl Rachael in the movie 'Jesus Camp' mocking people "who sang 'three songs' (she mimicks a staunch demeanor) and then heard a sermon", and proceeds to initmate that their worship and learning is somehow sub par.

It echoed of familiarity, and pinched my heart. Yes, that was me. We had our own key phrases for those who 'thought' they were believers, but didn't really 'get it', and weren't 'really committed'. We judged those around us like a hoard of PTA moms on a one way mission for nutritious lunches in a cheetos factory.

I do understand how it feels though, to have someone believe something about you based on a few peoples experiences, and film. Every singer persons experience is so unique, and no one single viewpoint can capture it.

There is good, a kind of good I guarantee you cannot replace easily outside a cult setting. Unfortunately, the bad is so overwhelmingly toxic, it washes the life out of the good.

There is an upside. When you are gone, if you have not had too much damage done, you can look back fondly at some wonderful times.

I hope I can be filled with more compassion, and understanding. I'm not there yet, I'm terribly human.

Anonymous said...

This is a two part post.

Atari,

Thanks for the post. When I first left C.C., I felt very much alone in the world. Then I came across a book written by Stephen Hassan (not sure on the spelling). He was in a cult and escaped. Later he became an exit counselor and wrote books. One of which is titled "Combatting Cult Mind Control". It was odd for me to read the book, but something about it piqued my interest. What I found inside was not what I expected.

His description of his experiences were so similar to mine, yet he never mentioned my religion. The overall similarities were stunning, and caused me to realize that the dynamics I was experiencing were not unique to a particular religion, but to a level of individual development and a certain social structure that hampers development past a certain stage.

I appreciate your posts, and the posts of the others, especially josephs.


Anon12:40,

You have posted a very interesting piece of Mormon scripture. Let's take a look at it for a minute.

1. God's annointed is Jesus Christ. When a man claims to be the intercessor between men and God they infer that they are the Savior, that they are Jesus Christ. Warren has falsely asserted this very thing.

2.Now, what about offending God's little ones? This would be another no,no on Warren's list. Sodomizing his nephew, raping little girls, and engaging in extra marital affairs with his "mothers" would put him in this category.

3.Then there is the crying transgression. Well, let's see. How about Warren getting up in church and falsely claiming to have revelation from God that certain people have "sinned". Or, consider him breaking up families without a reasonable explanation, but an inference that the excommunicated member has committed some unknown crime.

Wow. If I hadn't read the D&C before, I would have thought you were chastising Warren. Keep reading it because it may help you sort it all out!

furnace said...

Anon 12:54

I couldn't find that book in any of the Washington County Library brances. (For those not in Utah, Washington County is the county Hildale is in--there are three branches ranging from 1/2 hour drive to a little over one hour drive away from Hildale).

I am now 2/3 through a borrowed copy of "Releasing the Bonds", also by Steven Hassan, and the parallels are striking. One thing I am learning is that telling people that they are in a cult only adds gasoline to the fire. Yet, the truth as we all see it needs to come to light. One reason I post so seldom is I am afraid that most posts here only add fuel to the fire.

To the person who says Joseph is lying:

Were you at one of the meetings when Truman Barlow told of a man who had a rebellious wife? He stated the man did everything for that wife until one day, Uncle Roy told the man "She isn't worth the leather she walks on". Then the "obedient priesthood man" put this "rebellious woman" out of his life.

Anonymous said...

A post with people commenting in it..... what a concept.

First, atar_i it sounds like you need a hug. You went 3 shades of postal on Mr. Ignorant. It's like hanging out in a viper pit and getting pissed off when one bites you. HAHA! I appreciate your rational outlook on life and to this blog.

Second, IITMOC you said this,

The Lord is about love, not control. Does He have rules? Yes. Does he force anyone to obey these rules? No. Are there consequences for breaking the rules? Yes. Does He still love the rule breaker? Yes! Have we not heard the story of the Shepard who left the 99 sheep (those who hadn’t broken the rules) to find and bring back the one that was lost (the rule breaker)? Does that sound like the love that the current FLDS leadership has for the people? Does that sound like the love that the anonymous poster has for Joseph, I don’t think so.

I agree with you 100%, but my guess is when the sheppard comes back with that 1 sheep and they have their celebration, which sheep do you think they'll cook up for their party? Just a funny thought.

It is of no importance who said what when. What is important is how we all live our lives and how we treat each other. I can believe differently then you, but what is truly important is how i treat you and visa versa.

One more thing, I would hope our thoughts and prayers go out to this family that has lost their child. What a terribly sad event in their lives. It would devestate me if it were to happen in my family.

PB

Anonymous said...

"It is of no importance who said what when. What is important is how we all live our lives and how we treat each other. I can believe differently then you, but what is truly important is how i treat you and visa versa."

*sarcasm on*

What a concept! Don't you all know I am the Lord's one and only whether you believe it or not? Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it not so, and anyone who doesn't worship me as God is an infidel. It's presumptuous to think God would choose anyone other than me, because I am the only one he has total confidence in.

*sarcasm off*

Anonymous said...

PB,

You said: "I agree with you 100%, but my guess is when the sheppard comes back with that 1 sheep and they have their celebration, which sheep do you think they'll cook up for their party? Just a funny thought."

OK, he may get “cooked” but is it the Shepard or the other sheep who have the right to decide to "cook" the wayward one? I would think it is the Shepard.

Funny thing in the FLDS is that some of or one of the sheep think they are the Shepard (Lord) unto the sheep(us mortals), speak for the Shepard, and are the only ones or “one” to whom the Shepard talks and that you are only obedient to the Shepard by obedience to them. I thought the Lord said “judge not that ye be not judged.” I don’t remember Him saying that he would preordain certain sheep to take His place among us to decide who should be cast out (or cooked) and who should be left.

A leader among the "sheep" would be one that says "follow the Shepard", an imposter would be one who says "follow me, and I and I alone will lead you how the Shepard wants you lead, yea, I will make you be obedient or I will cast you out." One does it for the Glory of the Shepard, and the other for their own power and glory. It is the difference between two of our Lord’s sons, Jesus and Lucifer.

another rant... at least it was an attempt at an analogy.

IITMOC

Anonymous said...

All liars are banned from this site.So please get off this site. Ok thanx

Anonymous said...

PB,if the sheep are living among canibales,it's no wonder one would want to leave, dont ewe think?

uncaduff.

fttc said...

iitmoc

While we're being morbid I find a flaw in your analogy. In the FLDS the wandering sheep is not even worthy of providing the lamb for the feast. Their shepard would have to use one of the faithful. Saddest part is they would willingly be eaten.

Anonymous said...

""A leader among the "sheep" would be one that says "follow the Shepard", an imposter would be one who says "follow me, and I and I alone will lead you how the Shepard wants you lead, yea, I will make you be obedient or I will cast you out." One does it for the Glory of the Shepard, and the other for their own power and glory. It is the difference between two of our Lord’s sons, Jesus and Lucifer.""

IITMOC---- I think we are in perfect agreement. I couldn't agree more with what you've said, just trying to lighten this place up.

Uncaduff, I think if i were a sheep and had to pick between the two, then I would probably live with the cannibals over non-cannibals because with the cannibals I wouldn't necessarily be their only meat option. Only when their population dwindled would I need to worry about my safty. I know you had other meanings or maybe all you were doing was setting that wonderful ewe joke up, who knows.

It is all of our jobs to seek out that sheep. There is always someone that is down trodden, poor in heart, in need of help, etc. Our job in my opinion is to act according to our beliefs. If you believe in Jesus Christ, then you have alot of work to do with just his teachings. So good luck with that everyone. My sermon is over.



For now......

PB

Anonymous said...

Jeremiah, Chapter 23

1. Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.

2 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.

3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.

4 And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD.

Anonymous said...

fttc:

I have great respect for you as a person and for you contributions on this forum. A morbid post was not my intention, but re-reading it, it could certainly be interpreted that way.

I didn’t mean that the other sheep were literally eating or killing that lost sheep. When I said "cooked" I was referring to a judgement passed upon that sheep (representing a person who perhaps had knowingly or unknowingly broken some of the Lord’s commandments, or in some cases the leaders edicts). What I was trying to say is that us fellow sheep (family, friends, etc) should be there to help each other, to love even the wrong doer (not necessarily love the actions they have taken) and point them to the Lord. We should not be so quick to judge them and have them “cooked” or sent away (which in some ways may be worse than death) just because one claiming to be the only source to repentance (through him of course) says so.

There are many FLDS parents who have sent away sons and daughters when they needed their parents love the most. In many cases, they were sacrificing that young son or daughter to stay in the good graces of the “one man”. It is this being sent away, and all family ties severed that I was referring to as a sheep being “cooked.”

Not sure if that is any clearer or if I just struck the tar baby a few more times :)

IITMOC

ATAR_i said...

So, has anyone ever found a successful way to help people see the true nature of the situation they are in (cult).

I know we all figured it out, but how do you help other see? Is it even possible?

Perhaps there is more than just learning how to deal with the aftermath, perhaps there is a proactive way to help those inside.

Anyone know?

Joseph Rohbock said...

Atar-i, it's very much like "furnace" says. Trying to tell them that they are in a cult just adds gas to the fire. I think you are so right with the "sheep being cooked" analogy. There were people that had strayed just a little, made a few mistakes, and they were literally "cooked" so bad that they would never even think about wanting to go back. They would have nothing to go back to. Their parents and siblings don't even claim them as family. And you sure as hell won't ever get the "blessings of the priesthood."

But, the FLDS are nothing like the Savior seeking out the lost. The only people that are given a second chance are the ones that have the right last name or the right Father, unless of course they make obscene amounts of money. Then they can be forgiven. But Warren has never made any effort to reach out to the young people and help them if they are going astray. His doctrine is to "do what I say, or be damned!" The only time he reaches out to someone that was, or is struggling is if it benefits him. AKA Ruby. He wouldn't have thought twice about her if Flora hadn't gotten involved and started making statements to Law Enforcement and the press. And then, he threw every rule he ever taught out the window, by asking me to go get her, and tell her he would give her anything that she wanted. Knowing full well what she wanted was to marry me, and he pretty much told her that she could. He only said it to lure her back so that they could exert some mind control over her for a long enough period of time to get her to do what they wanted.

I'm sorry to tell you these sad, but true facts. I know there are people that will read this and call me a liar again. But I don't care. I saw it myself. And three years ago, I would have called myself a liar. All I can say is: GOD IS LOVE! That has been his #1 purpose throughout the realms of time. And anyone that will just open their eyes just a little will see that there is no love in the FLDS. Fathers turning against sons, mothers against daughters. Brothers against brothers, and sisters against sisters, and vice versa. And all in the name of religion. Anyway, you get the point.

God is love, and He never changes. So explain to me how to justify all the changes in doctrine in the last 10 years. I could go on and on, but I have already taken up too much space.

Anonymous said...

In any church excommunication is a Love ordinace. To disfellowship a person is get him or her to look at their self from a distance. Any case that is addressed is only out of Love. When ever a person is corrected a Good person will always say "where in can I do Better" and a Bad Person will always say "everyone is mean to me,"its their fault. The LDS Church excommunicates people all the time.To say "Repent from a distance" means just that. Repent just do better. I have first knowledge of people that have been sent away and they have been brought back out of Love. You can do the same if you wanted to. Regardless of the Past you have a spotless furture.Just move on and do better. Besides the more you talk about your problems the more they grow.

fttc said...

iitmoc

Your post just caught up to me when I was in a funky mood. I know no one was being morbid. I really did get your point the first time. You are right on target. Also Atar, furnace, Joseph and uncaduff. I agree with the sentiments expressed by all of you. I am certain that Anon 10:53 is talking of some of those who had the right name, inside knowledge or influence to convince warren to let them back in. I have heard a number of people that have been told to go and repent say that warren kicked them uphill. Once they were out they could see what they had on the inside and were very glad to not still be there. I know I am grateful every day that I am not living the lies that many of my relates are. Furnace is probably right that statements like my previous sentence here add fuel to the fire. But at the same time the truth needs to be told.

I do not think that telling those on the inside that they are wrong is going to change their mind. I do want them to know that there are other options, that there are those who have been asked out that are not pining away because they are not good enough to repent. I know I was fortunate enough to get out with my family (wife and children) intact. Not many can say the same. I have tried to be vocal to those memebers still on the inside that I am ready and willing to help when they finally decide they have had enough. There will be many casualties. I can't help believing there will also be many that will see through it.

Joseph Rohbock said...

Anon 10:53,

I don't know what kind of messed up religion you are from or have heard about, but all the ones I know of only excommunicate people as a last resort. They give them every chance they can to change and repent before excommunicating them. And if nothing else, they tell them what crime they are guilty of. That is a luxury that 99% of the men that have been kicked out by Warren DO NOT HAVE!!!! My father and brother did NOTHING, I repeat, NOTHING to deserve what they got. Neither did Allen Steed, LeRoy Jeffs, Joseph Barlow, and countless other men. I am not saying that they were perfect, or without their little faults of weaknesses, but I guarantee you would have to look the world over to find men of that caliber. Excuse me for taking this personal, but you struck a cord. THERE IS NO LOVE. The only motivation out there is FEAR. They live in fear of having all that they hold dear removed from them. They live in fear of going to hell because they do not implicitly obey the fiendish dictates of a man in a desperate power struggle, who just can't seem to get enough. You point out to me the love in forcing a 14 year old girl to marry her brother. Yes she may have a different mother and father, but she has still lived with this boy for most of her life, and looked at him as a brother. Oh, and she despises him. "Oh well, let's force her to marry him anyway. It will be fun to see what kind of misery we can put our children through!" Pardon me, but that is NOT the work of God. And there is no love in that. And if you think there is, then you need to go find you a place in the FLDS church.

ATAR_i said...

The only way I can explain the change, the ever changing nature of a progressing fundamentalism...is fashion.

It sounds ridiculous at the outset, but it's the easiest way to explain the constantly evolving nature of spirituality.

If it's easy, or everyone has it, then it is no longer special, or different, or unique. The constant changes keep people on their toes, waiting in anticipation for the next fur coat fundamental edict they can become a part of.

Mind you, I don't believe it looks carnal at all (like the latest hip hugger 'must have' of the season) - instead, it looks like a quest for God, and righteousness.

And, if it were a peaceful, contented search it might be. But it's a militaristically orchestrated, take no prisoners, kill the wounded trek into the latest spiritual edict 'fashion'.

In the end, the weak are dead, the survivors are murderers (metaphorically) and everyone loses.

And that, is how I see the ever changing spirituality that grips cults and refuses to let them go. If the leader has no power, the cult cannot become the cult. For him to get power, he has to get his people into the mindset above - the hunger for the 'spiritual fashion' they must have.

The kicker - ONLY the cult leader has it. 'The only manufacturer', everyone has to get it from him if they want it!

ATAR_i said...

As far as helping - I agree.

I was told I was in a cult all my life, and I just learned to look at people and see how unaware they were, and how they 'didn't really know'.

I like the 19 bedroom house in CC as a place for lost sould from that area. Is anyone able to do that?

I hope Bruce can make that happen. I hope they get more houses, some for girls, or women as well.

Bruce Wisan said...

ATAR_i made a comment at 8:09 about the 19 bedroom house being set up for lost boys. Maybe a little explanation should be made.

The husband and wife involved want to offer refuge for up to 15 boys between the ages of 10-18. The couple doing this are arranging to take foster care classes and become certified as foster parents in both states. They are also creating a 501(c)3 not for profit organization and have some tentative financial contributions lined up. I am in the process of creating an occupancy agreement for them for the John Nielsen Jeffs house (19 bedrooms). I think this is a great use for the house.

Shortly after the news came out about the house, I had an offer from an out of state individual to buy the house and turn it into a bed and breakfast place. I obviously preferred the refuge concept. I hope it works.

I will certainly try and do the same thing for a couple willing to provide refuge for young girls as well. There is however, a great deal of planning and committment involved in setting up such a situation. Let me know if anyone has an interest.

ATAR_i said...

I heard about that Bruce - and I'm glad you made the decision you did.

I know 'girls' offer quite a bit more challenge (they are wanted), and it might not be something that would be utilized initially, so it doesn't need to be so large, perhaps just SECURE, very secure. It might not even work as a long term placement option, but for the short term, might be rather like an embassy.

Filler child said...

I hope we are not making victoms out of the kids that leave the crick. is there some way to propel them into self reliance rather than dependency.

fttc said...

I think this is a step in the right direction. In the past they have been turned out without a support system. If we can get more of them into a foster type situation where they have to answer to someone other than themselves they will not be as likely to be a 'victim'. They need a good role model to help them with self discipline before they can acheive independence.

Anonymous said...

Some of the kids that are kicked out actually just leave out of rebellion to their parents/religion/ect. and are so overwhelmed with the freedom that is afforded them, they tend to go straight to the things that were wicked/wrong/etc. Turns out some of those things are bad for you, alcohol, smoking, drugs, etc. So if you could provide a home with rules and more importantly education where some young person could make the translation to adulthood easier. I wish you the best.

PB

Anonymous said...

Throw sex education in there too. Unprotected sex is a big problem with these kids. They end up having children when they need to learn to grow up.

ATAR_i said...

Education - huge huge. Each individual would have an assessment, and then a learning plan could be developed specifically to the needs of that person keeping in mind their goals for themselves, as well as basic educational requirements.

Even in areas where kids go to a nice public high school, they still need assistance in helping them understand the opportunities that exist which would help them fulfill their goals for themselves.