FLDS Prophet Warren Jeffs may be serving life in prison, but his followers continue with their work on the YFZ Ranch near Eldorado, Texas where the group's white limestone Temple towers over the town they are building. Polygamy, the practice of plural marriage, appears to be alive and well in the Lone Star State, despite laws to the contrary.
Friday, August 26, 2005
Where do the posters on this site stand Religiously?
I think it would be interesting to find out whether the posters here are FLDS, former FLDS, corrected and wanting back in FLDS, LDS or wahtever background you may be.
I left Colorado City 3 years ago. Walked away from a beautiful house and my friends and family. I still have many FLDS values. Just didn't like the way the church was heading.
I am a Mormon Fundamentalist. My roots go back to Joseph Smith. I grew up under the leadership of Leroy Johnson and Rulon Jeffs but if teachings do not square up with the Word of God it doesn't matter who taught it, it is not true. I am not being specific because I also wish to remain anonymous.
I grew up LDS and never could digest the idea that we had a monoply on the truth.
After traveling to numerous other countries and meeting people that also think they have a monoply on the truth, I will never believe in organized religion as the way I want invest my life in.
I grew up LDS my husband grew up FLDS now that we are married, each side of the family thinks we have appostated from the "true" church. Give me the 10 commandments and I will be a happy camper
I grew up LDS, became disillusioned for many reasons 20 years ago. My husband is still active LDS (too much invested to really allow himself to question). Both of our families go back to the beginnings of Mormonism. A widowed sister met a Polygamist on a LDS Singles website and has become one of the "chosen" to live "the work". I am fascinated at all the many ways that limits and rules can be put on an ominipotent and all powerful God in order to establish our own individual beliefs and ethnocentric superiority as THE WAY.
I grew up AG, we had the 'big 5', and some of the leadership structure created some unhealthy behaviors in good people.
Now I would say I'm mainstream, currently we moved and started a methodist church but will probably switch to a community church now that I know where one is.
I will say this: My statis is none of your business, but a morman, or a F.L.D.S. are one and the same. YOu can not say you are a morman, and hold to any un-Godly thing and continue to be a morman. There is no such thing as un-organized religion. If that were the case, you would be living in total confusion and you would be particles of matter in the universe. And then you would be in organised particle position. It says in the bible, I the Lord did create the earth. It was organized. He then put men upon it. Secondly, the first principle of the gospel is: FIRST FAITH IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. FIRST TO THINE OWNSELF BE TRUE. YOU CAN NOT BE FALSE TO ANY-ONE, AND IT MUST FOLLOW AS THE DAYS AND THE NIGHTS. lOVE tHE lORD, THY gOD WITH ALL THY HEART AND SOUL, AND LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS THY SELF. They did not say, Hate thy neighbor as thyself. To seperate yourselfs into groups and claim you are better or worse than another, is not the law of Christ. You absoulutly have to organize your religion, or it is not in existance. Even if you worship alone, you must organise your thoughts and Idea's. No-body gets out of Gods plan. He has prepared a place for all. You know good and evil. if your traditions are evil, you then are organized in evil traditions. God is unchangable. My course is one eternal round. He is unchangable, but he is all powerful. If you do not believe in God, you still have to organize your thoughts to conclude this, there-for you have not by passed his law. It is a universal law. You were born into the world. This also was the organized plan of God. The color of your skin does not determine your organisation. Neither does your organisation determine you. You are what you do. if you do evil, you have become evil. If your Organized religion and thoughts are in confusion, you are in organized confusion. And if you claim to be a F.L.D.S. and do not know the first principle of the Gosple it is impossible to be a F.L.D.S. And it is impossible to be a morman. The book is exactly the same. Your organised opinions may differ, but the law is exactly the same. No one gets out of this. And the Law is excactly the same in every church, tho men may differ.
I was involved in building an electric furnace for an unknown purpose and was told it was very important and to be kept secret. I got no further than starting on a digital readout of temperature when the project got interrupted and I worked on other projects that were very important. I was told from two different people that contacted me from YFZ that "this project is so important...I can't tell you details...but lives could be at risk if any details get out." They didn't say "Uncle Warren's life", they said the plural form "lives could be lost." I am still confused as to why a harmless piece of machinery could cost someone their life.
On one of these projects (not the furnace), I talked to Lyle after I had a phone call from a person at YFZ, and he informed me that those at YFZ had no business contacting me directly; anything done must go through him, William, or Nathan.
Anyway, I kept getting to thinking about building this furnace, and it kept getting interrupted with other top secret projects. It was actually the secrecy pressure that drove me out.
I now have suspicions that this furnace would not have been for anything I want to be a part of.
I remember, I remember when you came to this board a month or so back. You read what they were building at the temple - and something made sense - horrible sense.
Have you learned anything since that would lead you to believe your initial impressions was correct or incorrect?
"First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn."
weeds are also the creation god weeds are no different than wheat they cover the earth they provide oxygen to breath they prevent the land from being washed away they provide shelter and food for god's other tiny creations they flower and beautify the land
weeds are only bad, when they interfere with growth of other plants that we need to feed ourselves
...hmmm you fear goodness, truth and companion yet you fear not the powers that can destroy you ... interesting
and who's blaming god for evil? or even satan? it's you guys that keep pointing the finger at satan. I always thought evil is in the actions of people ... you know, greed, envy, lust, all that bad kind of stuff
I somehow don't equate succumbing with sacrifice sacrifice is usually an act of strength in weakness you succumb to the temptations of evil in weakness you succumb to the fear of eternal damnation while the end results are opposite, I see no virtue in either but then I guess me and god don't think alike
keep sweet eldorado stg
PS: what's it that we're supposed to sacrifice anyway?
I grew up in CC before the term "FLDS" was coined. I left about 25 years ago.
I don't believe that man can rise from the dead or immaculate conception can happen. I don't believe that gold plates ever existed either. I guess that I am not capable of having enough faith to be a religious person. There is too much hokey crap being pawned off as the truth.
Furnace: the furnace in the basement really scares me, is it going to be used as a "tool" for Warren to see who is truly faithful? Is he going to send them in one end and if they have enough faith the come out on the other end unharmed. And if they lack faith, well, there goes that tithing payer.
if you got that out of my comment, you are about the most blind person I have never wanted to meet. I don't even want to bother explaining myself, because the rest of the blog world gets it, what's wrong with you?
I have already told the group what I have witnessed, and it was no imagination. However, any additional details is not the public's business.
Now, whether or not things are for a crematorium, you decide. I have never directly stated it, so don't accuse me of evil imaginations; I have only presented the facts as witnessed FIRST HAND.
Who knows--maybe a machine shop will someday be built and a large quantity of parts will be put in the oven for cintering; who knows?
But, after this, I will let street have the last word; arguments with him are pointless. He believes that his imagination is more factual than my open eyes and ears.
What Out Everyone Street Quoted Mt. 13:29. "‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’"
8/27/2005 2:38 AM
Street who will be the harvesters? I know the answer, I just want everyone else hear it from you. You do such a good job.
Street said...Yes indeed, check your meds, for sure. You see, you was hinting to a crematorium among a people who would rather die than to hurt another innocent person.
But who do Warren's followers consider an innocent person Street? Does Warren consider Street an innocent person?
Street said..."Hey, maybe they can use it to cook muffins, or warm up the building, or how about curing that laminate limestone. It's sure not a suntan machine, or for tanning your hide for being so naughty. 9/01/2005 2:25 AM "
So Street you don't deny a furnace could be present.
Mormon fundamentalist - I'm curious - I don't think I understand you fully. Can you explain what you mean by not following the book of mormon but following the first three LDS prophets. Can you explain that further.
Tree of death Capsula Mundi is a design for a biodegradable coffin made from starch plastic that holds the deceased in a fetal position. The stunning artwork was created by Italian designers Anna Citelli and Raoul Bretzel: "Capsula Mundi is planted in the earth like a seed. Above it, to signal the presence of occupied space, is a shallow concave circle dug out of the ground. In the center of which, a tree is planted, the essence of it chosen in life by the dead one, the care of this tree is the responsibility of everyone. The aim is ecological burial, literally a more natural way to decay.
The cemetery will, then, acquire a new look. No longer the overpopulated urban environment with congested architecture, it will be a natural one in contact with the earth, enveloping expansive areas, entire hills consecrated to the cult of the dead. Summarizing, it is a different landscape devoted to the worship of our ancestry: a sacred forest."
Here's another, can OTS be trusted with such information?
Tree of Death Cerbera odollam, a plant that grows in India and southeast Asia, is also known as the "suicide tree" because people munch it to kill themselves. Apparently, it's also used to rub out young wives who aren't well-liked by their in-laws. From New Scientist: Although the kernels of the tree have a bitter taste, this can be disguised if they are crushed and mixed with spicy food. They contain a potent heart toxin called cerberin, similar in structure to digoxin, found in the foxglove.
Digoxin kills by blocking calcium ion channels in heart muscles, which disrupts the heartbeat. But while foxglove poisoning is well known to western toxicologists, (researcher Yvan) Gaillard says pathologists would not be able to identify Cerbera poisoning unless there is evidence the victim had eaten the plant. “It is the perfect murder,” he says.
44 comments:
I left Colorado City 3 years ago. Walked away from a beautiful house and my friends and family. I still have many FLDS values. Just didn't like the way the church was heading.
Grew up LDS, left at 18 or so. I'm not an Agnostic.
I was sent away to repent and boy am I glad!
RHI, did your family go with you or are you all alone?
I also grew up FLDS and left at age 23, 8 months ago. I believe in God, the eternal Father and in his son, Jesus Christ, and in the holy ghost.
I am a Mormon Fundamentalist. My roots go back to Joseph Smith. I grew up under the leadership of Leroy Johnson and Rulon Jeffs but if teachings do not square up with the Word of God it doesn't matter who taught it, it is not true. I am not being specific because I also wish to remain anonymous.
I grew up LDS and never could digest the idea that we had a monoply on the truth.
After traveling to numerous other countries and meeting people that also think they have a monoply on the truth, I will never believe in organized religion as the way I want invest my life in.
I grew up LDS my husband grew up FLDS now that we are married, each side of the family thinks we have appostated from the "true" church. Give me the 10 commandments and I will be a happy camper
I grew up LDS, became disillusioned for many reasons 20 years ago. My husband is still active LDS (too much invested to really allow himself to question). Both of our families go back to the beginnings of Mormonism. A widowed sister met a Polygamist on a LDS Singles website and has become one of the "chosen" to live "the work". I am fascinated at all the many ways that limits and rules can be put on an ominipotent and all powerful God in order to establish our own individual beliefs and ethnocentric superiority as THE WAY.
I grew up AG, we had the 'big 5', and some of the leadership structure created some unhealthy behaviors in good people.
Now I would say I'm mainstream, currently we moved and started a methodist church but will probably switch to a community church now that I know where one is.
The God I worship is color-blind. He sees no differnce between his children.
And to the question about my family..I brought my husband and 4 children with me.
In March 2002, WJ tried to cut off my husband and his brother and Uncle Fred stood up for them.
Fundy -----FLDS
I will say this: My statis is none of your business, but a morman, or a F.L.D.S. are one and the same. YOu can not say you are a morman, and hold to any un-Godly thing and continue to be a morman. There is no such thing as un-organized religion. If that were the case, you would be living in total confusion and you would be particles of matter in the universe. And then you would be in organised particle position. It says in the bible, I the Lord did create the earth. It was organized. He then put men upon it. Secondly, the first principle of the gospel is: FIRST FAITH IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. FIRST TO THINE OWNSELF BE TRUE. YOU CAN NOT BE FALSE TO ANY-ONE, AND IT MUST FOLLOW AS THE DAYS AND THE NIGHTS. lOVE tHE lORD, THY gOD WITH ALL THY HEART AND SOUL, AND LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS THY SELF. They did not say, Hate thy neighbor as thyself. To seperate yourselfs into groups and claim you are better or worse than another, is not the law of Christ. You absoulutly have to organize your religion, or it is not in existance. Even if you worship alone, you must organise your thoughts and Idea's. No-body gets out of Gods plan. He has prepared a place for all. You know good and evil. if your traditions are evil, you then are organized in evil traditions. God is unchangable. My course is one eternal round. He is unchangable, but he is all powerful. If you do not believe in God, you still have to organize your thoughts to conclude this, there-for you have not by passed his law. It is a universal law. You were born into the world. This also was the organized plan of God. The color of your skin does not determine your organisation. Neither does your organisation determine you. You are what you do. if you do evil, you have become evil. If your Organized religion and thoughts are in confusion, you are in organized confusion. And if you claim to be a F.L.D.S. and do not know the first principle of the Gosple it is impossible to be a F.L.D.S. And it is impossible to be a morman. The book is exactly the same. Your organised opinions may differ, but the law is exactly the same. No one gets out of this. And the Law is excactly the same in every church, tho men may differ.
And what organized religion to you (3:32AM) belong to?
"First to thine own self be true..." This comes from the writings of Shakespear, not the Bible.
I was involved in building an electric furnace for an unknown purpose and was told it was very important and to be kept secret. I got no further than starting on a digital readout of temperature when the project got interrupted and I worked on other projects that were very important. I was told from two different people that contacted me from YFZ that "this project is so important...I can't tell you details...but lives could be at risk if any details get out." They didn't say "Uncle Warren's life", they said the plural form "lives could be lost." I am still confused as to why a harmless piece of machinery could cost someone their life.
On one of these projects (not the furnace), I talked to Lyle after I had a phone call from a person at YFZ, and he informed me that those at YFZ had no business contacting me directly; anything done must go through him, William, or Nathan.
Anyway, I kept getting to thinking about building this furnace, and it kept getting interrupted with other top secret projects. It was actually the secrecy pressure that drove me out.
I now have suspicions that this furnace would not have been for anything I want to be a part of.
This is why I called myself "furnace."
I remember, I remember when you came to this board a month or so back. You read what they were building at the temple - and something made sense - horrible sense.
Have you learned anything since that would lead you to believe your initial impressions was correct or incorrect?
You can email me privately at
atar_i@hotmail.com
Anon 3:32
Unorganized religion is a lot more likely to occur than organized confusion.
people ask me if I'd join them at their church
I say, "No thanks, I've already graduated"
keep sweet eldorado
stg
"First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn."
weeds are also the creation god
weeds are no different than wheat
they cover the earth
they provide oxygen to breath
they prevent the land from being washed away
they provide shelter and food for god's other tiny creations
they flower and beautify the land
weeds are only bad, when they interfere with growth of other plants that we need to feed ourselves
(or on the damn putting green...)
"I guess God and Satan are no different either."
close, one created the other
both are to be feared
either can be embraced
neither should be succumbed to
keep sweet eldorado
stg
...hmmm
you fear goodness, truth and companion
yet you fear not the powers that can destroy you
... interesting
and who's blaming god for evil?
or even satan?
it's you guys that keep pointing the finger at satan.
I always thought evil is in the actions of people
... you know, greed, envy, lust, all that bad kind of stuff
I somehow don't equate succumbing with sacrifice
sacrifice is usually an act of strength
in weakness you succumb to the temptations of evil
in weakness you succumb to the fear of eternal damnation
while the end results are opposite, I see no virtue in either
but then I guess me and god don't think alike
keep sweet eldorado
stg
PS: what's it that we're supposed to sacrifice anyway?
Not that I agree completely with your retort STG but you spoke brilliantly.
I grew up in CC before the term "FLDS" was coined. I left about 25 years ago.
I don't believe that man can rise from the dead or immaculate conception can happen. I don't believe that gold plates ever existed either. I guess that I am not capable of having enough faith to be a religious person. There is too much hokey crap being pawned off as the truth.
Long Time Gone
I believe in Fundamental Mormom principles. I don't believe in Warren.
There you have it.
Amanda meet Ruth!
Sorry! Wrong thread.
Furnace:
the furnace in the basement really scares me, is it going to be used as a "tool" for Warren to see who is truly faithful? Is he going to send them in one end and if they have enough faith the come out on the other end unharmed. And if they lack faith, well, there goes that tithing payer.
WHAT??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!
STREET you are getting loonier every time you post. CHECK YOUR MEDS!!!!
if you got that out of my comment, you are about the most blind person I have never wanted to meet. I don't even want to bother explaining myself, because the rest of the blog world gets it, what's wrong with you?
I have limits to details that I publicly expose.
I have already told the group what I have witnessed, and it was no imagination. However, any additional details is not the public's business.
Now, whether or not things are for a crematorium, you decide. I have never directly stated it, so don't accuse me of evil imaginations; I have only presented the facts as witnessed FIRST HAND.
Who knows--maybe a machine shop will someday be built and a large quantity of parts will be put in the oven for cintering; who knows?
But, after this, I will let street have the last word; arguments with him are pointless. He believes that his imagination is more factual than my open eyes and ears.
What Out Everyone
Street Quoted Mt. 13:29. "‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’"
8/27/2005 2:38 AM
Street who will be the harvesters? I know the answer, I just want everyone else hear it from you. You do such a good job.
Street said...Yes indeed, check your meds, for sure. You see, you was hinting to a crematorium among a people who would rather die than to hurt another innocent person.
But who do Warren's followers consider an innocent person Street? Does Warren consider Street an innocent person?
Street said..."Hey, maybe they can use it to cook muffins, or warm up the building, or how about curing that laminate limestone. It's sure not a suntan machine, or for tanning your hide for being so naughty. 9/01/2005 2:25 AM "
So Street you don't deny a furnace could be present.
Mormon fundamentalist - I'm curious - I don't think I understand you fully. Can you explain what you mean by not following the book of mormon but following the first three LDS prophets. Can you explain that further.
Just curious
That "Mormon Fundamentalist" above seems to have fallen from an entirely different kind of nut tree.
I've heard of the 'tree of the knowledge of good and evil' and even the 'tree of life' but NEVER the tree of death - did you just make it up?
Just as I thought - you made it up.
Let see "Tree of Death"
Qlippoth are the shells of the dead. They are the rulers of the Tree of Death.
They are the Disputers and their primary function is to accuse the followers of God that they too may
be condemned.
It is by the use of Judgement that they hope to regain their stations and obtain Mercy.
Qlippoth are without exception evil.
Use of the names and titles of these fallen beings are not recommended, as the karmic implications areinescapable.
WHAT DO YOU THINK, DOES IT FIT?
"by the use of Judgement that they hope to regain their stations and obtain Mercy"
I THINK ITS A FIT!
Another version of the Tree of Death;
Tree of death
Capsula Mundi is a design for a biodegradable coffin made from starch plastic that holds the deceased in a fetal position. The stunning artwork was created by Italian designers Anna Citelli and Raoul Bretzel:
"Capsula Mundi is planted in the earth like a seed. Above it, to signal the presence of occupied space, is a shallow concave circle dug out of the ground. In the center of which, a tree is planted, the essence of it chosen in life by the dead one, the care of this tree is the responsibility of everyone. The aim is ecological burial, literally a more natural way to decay.
The cemetery will, then, acquire a new look. No longer the overpopulated urban environment with congested architecture, it will be a natural one in contact with the earth, enveloping expansive areas, entire hills consecrated to the cult of the dead. Summarizing, it is a different landscape devoted to the worship of our ancestry: a sacred forest."
No OTS didn't mean this one!
THE TREE OF DEATH
Here's another, can OTS be trusted with such information?
Tree of Death
Cerbera odollam, a plant that grows in India and southeast Asia, is also known as the "suicide tree" because people munch it to kill themselves. Apparently, it's also used to rub out young wives who aren't well-liked by their in-laws. From New Scientist:
Although the kernels of the tree have a bitter taste, this can be disguised if they are crushed and mixed with spicy food. They contain a potent heart toxin called cerberin, similar in structure to digoxin, found in the foxglove.
Digoxin kills by blocking calcium ion channels in heart muscles, which disrupts the heartbeat. But while foxglove poisoning is well known to western toxicologists, (researcher Yvan) Gaillard says pathologists would not be able to identify Cerbera poisoning unless there is evidence the victim had eaten the plant. “It is the perfect murder,” he says.
I FOUND IT!
ITS THE TREE OF GOOD AND EVIL, BUT YOU NEED TO BE 16 or SO TO VIEW IT.
The Tree of Death and Life
1481. The Archbishop of Saltzburg's missal.
Bayerische Staatsbibliothek
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/AdamNeve/a_n_e02.html
So that was you? The model for that famous descending the staircase painting? Eureka.
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