Friday, August 26, 2005

Where do the posters on this site stand Religiously?

I think it would be interesting to find out whether the posters here are FLDS, former FLDS, corrected and wanting back in FLDS, LDS or wahtever background you may be.

78 comments:

rumor-has-it said...

I left Colorado City 3 years ago. Walked away from a beautiful house and my friends and family. I still have many FLDS values. Just didn't like the way the church was heading.

Anonymous said...

Grew up LDS, left at 18 or so. I'm not an Agnostic.

Anonymous said...

I was sent away to repent and boy am I glad!

Anonymous said...

RHI, did your family go with you or are you all alone?

Inside_Out said...

Grew up up FLDS and left at age 20, 11 years ago. Don't believe in organized religion, too many human influences in all religions.

the_lerker said...

I also grew up FLDS and left at age 23, 8 months ago. I believe in God, the eternal Father and in his son, Jesus Christ, and in the holy ghost.

mugwump said...

I am a born-again-christian. I don't want too much known about me because this is a small town and I prefer to remain mugwump.

fttc said...

I am a Mormon Fundamentalist. My roots go back to Joseph Smith. I grew up under the leadership of Leroy Johnson and Rulon Jeffs but if teachings do not square up with the Word of God it doesn't matter who taught it, it is not true. I am not being specific because I also wish to remain anonymous.

Faithful Woman said...

I grew up as a sort of "black sheep" FLDS. Converted to a true FLDS and am now a former FLDS.
I will never again let another human being tell me what God wants for me.

Anonymous said...

I grew up LDS and never could digest the idea that we had a monoply on the truth.

After traveling to numerous other countries and meeting people that also think they have a monoply on the truth, I will never believe in organized religion as the way I want invest my life in.

Anonymous said...

I grew up LDS my husband grew up FLDS now that we are married, each side of the family thinks we have appostated from the "true" church. Give me the 10 commandments and I will be a happy camper

Anonymous said...

I grew up LDS, became disillusioned for many reasons 20 years ago. My husband is still active LDS (too much invested to really allow himself to question). Both of our families go back to the beginnings of Mormonism. A widowed sister met a Polygamist on a LDS Singles website and has become one of the "chosen" to live "the work". I am fascinated at all the many ways that limits and rules can be put on an ominipotent and all powerful God in order to establish our own individual beliefs and ethnocentric superiority as THE WAY.

onthestreet said...

FLDS: Fields:

Mt. 13: 24. Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his FIELD. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27"The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28"‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

"The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29. "‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’"

onthestreet said...

This is what has happened in the Lord's Church.

ATAR_i said...

I grew up AG, we had the 'big 5', and some of the leadership structure created some unhealthy behaviors in good people.

Now I would say I'm mainstream, currently we moved and started a methodist church but will probably switch to a community church now that I know where one is.

rumor-has-it said...

The God I worship is color-blind. He sees no differnce between his children.

And to the question about my family..I brought my husband and 4 children with me.

In March 2002, WJ tried to cut off my husband and his brother and Uncle Fred stood up for them.

Anonymous said...

Fundy -----FLDS

Anonymous said...

I will say this: My statis is none of your business, but a morman, or a F.L.D.S. are one and the same. YOu can not say you are a morman, and hold to any un-Godly thing and continue to be a morman. There is no such thing as un-organized religion. If that were the case, you would be living in total confusion and you would be particles of matter in the universe. And then you would be in organised particle position. It says in the bible, I the Lord did create the earth. It was organized. He then put men upon it. Secondly, the first principle of the gospel is: FIRST FAITH IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. FIRST TO THINE OWNSELF BE TRUE. YOU CAN NOT BE FALSE TO ANY-ONE, AND IT MUST FOLLOW AS THE DAYS AND THE NIGHTS. lOVE tHE lORD, THY gOD WITH ALL THY HEART AND SOUL, AND LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS THY SELF. They did not say, Hate thy neighbor as thyself. To seperate yourselfs into groups and claim you are better or worse than another, is not the law of Christ. You absoulutly have to organize your religion, or it is not in existance. Even if you worship alone, you must organise your thoughts and Idea's. No-body gets out of Gods plan. He has prepared a place for all. You know good and evil. if your traditions are evil, you then are organized in evil traditions. God is unchangable. My course is one eternal round. He is unchangable, but he is all powerful. If you do not believe in God, you still have to organize your thoughts to conclude this, there-for you have not by passed his law. It is a universal law. You were born into the world. This also was the organized plan of God. The color of your skin does not determine your organisation. Neither does your organisation determine you. You are what you do. if you do evil, you have become evil. If your Organized religion and thoughts are in confusion, you are in organized confusion. And if you claim to be a F.L.D.S. and do not know the first principle of the Gosple it is impossible to be a F.L.D.S. And it is impossible to be a morman. The book is exactly the same. Your organised opinions may differ, but the law is exactly the same. No one gets out of this. And the Law is excactly the same in every church, tho men may differ.

ATAR_i said...

And what organized religion to you (3:32AM) belong to?

furnace said...

"First to thine own self be true..." This comes from the writings of Shakespear, not the Bible.

furnace said...

I was involved in building an electric furnace for an unknown purpose and was told it was very important and to be kept secret. I got no further than starting on a digital readout of temperature when the project got interrupted and I worked on other projects that were very important. I was told from two different people that contacted me from YFZ that "this project is so important...I can't tell you details...but lives could be at risk if any details get out." They didn't say "Uncle Warren's life", they said the plural form "lives could be lost." I am still confused as to why a harmless piece of machinery could cost someone their life.

On one of these projects (not the furnace), I talked to Lyle after I had a phone call from a person at YFZ, and he informed me that those at YFZ had no business contacting me directly; anything done must go through him, William, or Nathan.

Anyway, I kept getting to thinking about building this furnace, and it kept getting interrupted with other top secret projects. It was actually the secrecy pressure that drove me out.

I now have suspicions that this furnace would not have been for anything I want to be a part of.

This is why I called myself "furnace."

ATAR_i said...

I remember, I remember when you came to this board a month or so back. You read what they were building at the temple - and something made sense - horrible sense.

Have you learned anything since that would lead you to believe your initial impressions was correct or incorrect?

You can email me privately at

atar_i@hotmail.com

fttc said...

Anon 3:32

Unorganized religion is a lot more likely to occur than organized confusion.

Anonymous said...

people ask me if I'd join them at their church

I say, "No thanks, I've already graduated"

keep sweet eldorado
stg

Anonymous said...

"First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn."

weeds are also the creation god
weeds are no different than wheat
they cover the earth
they provide oxygen to breath
they prevent the land from being washed away
they provide shelter and food for god's other tiny creations
they flower and beautify the land

weeds are only bad, when they interfere with growth of other plants that we need to feed ourselves

(or on the damn putting green...)

onthestreet said...

Like the mixing of species. Somewhere it says not to be unequally yoked, and our Redeemer spoke aplenty about separating the wheat from the chaff. Then along comes many anonymous souls trying to tell him they are "no different". I guess God and Satan are no different either.

Anonymous said...

"I guess God and Satan are no different either."
close, one created the other

both are to be feared
either can be embraced
neither should be succumbed to

keep sweet eldorado
stg

onthestreet said...

Satan is not to be feared: "Fear God, and Him only shalt thou serve".

God should be SUCCUMBED to:
"Sacrifice thine all unto me, and serve me with all thy heart, might, mind, and strength".

Eph 5:20 KJV. When men SUCCUMB to and suffer for sin, God cannot be blamed for such, "for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither does He tempt any man" ...

You will have strength from above to hold you steadfast, and thus through constant SURRENDER to God you will be enabled to live the new life, even the life...
www.ssnet.org/qrtrly/eng/04d/less01kjv.html

Anonymous said...

...hmmm
you fear goodness, truth and companion
yet you fear not the powers that can destroy you
... interesting

and who's blaming god for evil?
or even satan?
it's you guys that keep pointing the finger at satan.
I always thought evil is in the actions of people
... you know, greed, envy, lust, all that bad kind of stuff

I somehow don't equate succumbing with sacrifice
sacrifice is usually an act of strength
in weakness you succumb to the temptations of evil
in weakness you succumb to the fear of eternal damnation
while the end results are opposite, I see no virtue in either
but then I guess me and god don't think alike

keep sweet eldorado
stg

PS: what's it that we're supposed to sacrifice anyway?

ATAR_i said...

Not that I agree completely with your retort STG but you spoke brilliantly.

Anonymous said...

I grew up in CC before the term "FLDS" was coined. I left about 25 years ago.

I don't believe that man can rise from the dead or immaculate conception can happen. I don't believe that gold plates ever existed either. I guess that I am not capable of having enough faith to be a religious person. There is too much hokey crap being pawned off as the truth.

Long Time Gone

Anonymous said...

I believe in Fundamental Mormom principles. I don't believe in Warren.

onthestreet said...

8/28/2005 8:16 PM

SACRIFICE all earthly things, and the passions of the flesh:
Authorized KJV Bible Lev. 7:16
But if the sacrifice of his offering [be] a vow, or a voluntary offering (7:18). The flesh of the sacrifice of his peace offerings.
bible.wiktel.com/av/le007.htm

D&C 138:48: And who had offered sacrifice in the similitude of the
great sacrifice of the Son of God, and had suffered tribulation ...
scriptures.lds.org/dc/138/48

Let us here observe, that a religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things never has power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation; for, from the first existence of man, the faith necessary unto the enjoyment of life and salvation never could be obtained without the sacrifice of all earthly things. [Lectures on Faith 6:7]

FEAR GOD:
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. When you die a physical death, your body cease to exist, it dies. Your soul goes to either Abraham's bosom (comfort & Rest) or Hell (Torment/ No rest).

When Christ comes He will consume the wicked [the tares] with the brightness of His coming [destroying the body]. The righteous [the wheat] will shine forth in the kingdom of their Father [the New Earth].

Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. The second death is when God destroys the soul. The one's that overcome, their soul's is given enternal life and will not be hurt of the second death. They will live forever.

IE: FEAR GOD: That is, fear to offend him. Then it is not hate, but love, to give up (or succumb) all earthly things to His glory.
"Greater love hath no man than to lay down his life for his friends,
and take it up again".

Eph 5:20 KJV. When men SUCCUMB to and suffer for sin, God cannot be blamed for such, "for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither does He tempt any man" ...

You will have strength from above to hold you steadfast, and thus through constant SURRENDER to God you will be enabled to live the new life, even the life.

Anonymous said...

There you have it.

Amanda meet Ruth!

Anonymous said...

Sorry! Wrong thread.

red rocks girl said...

Furnace:
the furnace in the basement really scares me, is it going to be used as a "tool" for Warren to see who is truly faithful? Is he going to send them in one end and if they have enough faith the come out on the other end unharmed. And if they lack faith, well, there goes that tithing payer.

onthestreet said...

It's called Wicked Imaginations to equate one to murder who does not look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.

red rocks girl said...

WHAT??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!
STREET you are getting loonier every time you post. CHECK YOUR MEDS!!!!

onthestreet said...

So, what does ?????????!!!!!!!!!! tell you? It's a display of doubts, confusion, and uncontrollable excitement.
Yes indeed, check your meds, for sure. You see, you was hinting to a crematorium among a people who would rather die than to hurt another innocent person. Thus, your confusion and wicked imaginations.

red rocks girl said...

if you got that out of my comment, you are about the most blind person I have never wanted to meet. I don't even want to bother explaining myself, because the rest of the blog world gets it, what's wrong with you?

furnace said...

I have limits to details that I publicly expose.

onthestreet said...

Ahh, now the both of you are hedging. Sounds like damage control, when your wicked imaginations are found out, yes?

polywatchin said...

Street 2:50
I'll say Warren doesn't allow sin!! He's mister Everyone Must Be Perfect According to the Rules of Warren Jeffs, Self Appointed Profit and Child Molester. And what's more, he decides if someone's a sinner. He "casts them out". Maybe into the crematorium! Who's to know?

furnace said...

I have already told the group what I have witnessed, and it was no imagination. However, any additional details is not the public's business.

Now, whether or not things are for a crematorium, you decide. I have never directly stated it, so don't accuse me of evil imaginations; I have only presented the facts as witnessed FIRST HAND.

Who knows--maybe a machine shop will someday be built and a large quantity of parts will be put in the oven for cintering; who knows?

But, after this, I will let street have the last word; arguments with him are pointless. He believes that his imagination is more factual than my open eyes and ears.

onthestreet said...

So true, so true, when your open eyes and ears set you off into wicked imaginations. To even label yourself as "furnace" leaves an implication that there is something evil going on there, because someone has a furnace.

Hey, maybe they can use it to cook muffins, or warm up the building, or how about curing that laminate limestone. It's sure not a suntan machine, or for tanning your hide for being so naughty.

Anonymous said...

What Out Everyone
Street Quoted Mt. 13:29. "‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’"

8/27/2005 2:38 AM

Street who will be the harvesters? I know the answer, I just want everyone else hear it from you. You do such a good job.

Anonymous said...

Street said...Yes indeed, check your meds, for sure. You see, you was hinting to a crematorium among a people who would rather die than to hurt another innocent person.

But who do Warren's followers consider an innocent person Street? Does Warren consider Street an innocent person?

Anonymous said...

Street said..."Hey, maybe they can use it to cook muffins, or warm up the building, or how about curing that laminate limestone. It's sure not a suntan machine, or for tanning your hide for being so naughty. 9/01/2005 2:25 AM "

So Street you don't deny a furnace could be present.

onthestreet said...

Well, actually I think EVERY building on the planet has a furnace, or a water-heater, or at least a fire-pit.

Ruthy: Gladly:

The TimE of the of Harvest...that
he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him," Hebrews 11:6 KJV)...to which we have come in this book), and THE HARVESTERS ARE THE ANGELS...
www.pbc.org/dp/stedman/revelation/4206.html

Seeds, Soil & Fruit. The harvest is the end of the age, and THE HARVESTERS ARE THE ANGELS..(KJV) Luke 6:43 "No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit...
www.deceptioninthechurch.com/seedssoilfruit.html

Bible Study - Repent Or Burn
(Revelation 19:20 KJV). "Then He left the crowd and went into the house [see ...The harvest is the end of the age, and THE HARVESTERS ARE THE ANGELS. ...
www.keyway.ca/htm2001/20010926.htm

Now, who are the angels? They are THE OBSCURE AND PERSECUTED ELECT, THOSE TRIED AND PROVED EVEN UNTO DEATH, THE PROPHETS AND THE SAINTS of each generation, gathered into one, for the purpose of harvest and feast, of glory and eternal increase.

mormonfundamentalist.com said...

Our families are fundamentalist Christian. we have no prophet instead having meetings to decide matters. We believe in the priesthood of all believers..Most all of our families go back to the first LDS years. WE do not follow the book of mormom but instead choose to follow the bible. We do obey all we can of the first 3 prophets of the church. We live the united order yet every man earns a living from our business'. We believe in Biblical Polygyny. Our wives are the ones to ask the men for marriage. We do not believe in child brides or abuse of anyones human rights to live in peace and good health.

onthestreet said...

So, with no prophet and meetings to decide matters, it's a democracy of man, NOT a theocracy of heaven.

You go a certain distance (JT), and then you STOP, like a stream that is stopped, or damned.

Yet, you are probably some of the best people around.

ATAR_i said...

Mormon fundamentalist - I'm curious - I don't think I understand you fully. Can you explain what you mean by not following the book of mormon but following the first three LDS prophets. Can you explain that further.

Just curious

onthestreet said...

A stale stream, muddied and damned up.

Anonymous said...

That "Mormon Fundamentalist" above seems to have fallen from an entirely different kind of nut tree.

onthestreet said...

There is the Tree of Life, and the Tree of Death, each with ten gates, and ten opposites of the other.

ATAR_i said...

I've heard of the 'tree of the knowledge of good and evil' and even the 'tree of life' but NEVER the tree of death - did you just make it up?

onthestreet said...

No pearls before swine.

onthestreet said...

Let this suffice.

Sephardi, Ashkenazi, and West African Art and Form are represented in Suriname's Jewish Cemeteries. A Ben-Ur - American Jewish History: (muse.jhu.edu). It appeared on Jewish sepulchral monuments in ancient and modern times and on medieval Jewish manuscripts, where ... night and is replaced by the TREE OF DEATH ...

These shards, together with the light they imprison, form the Kellipot, the “husks”
which ... Psychologically, the Kellipot lead to dogmatism in intellect, ...

The Tree of Knowledge is the Daat of the Tree of Life, or simply a knowledge of the right hand and left hand of God in the Tree of Life. It is the diversity of creation, unresolved in the Crown, the Grace, or Spirit of Life. Good is the right-hand of the Father ("none good but the Father"). Evil is the left-hand of the Father (Eve-El, El being God).

The Tree of Death, however, is below the earth! Earth is the lowest chamber of the Tree of Life. Death is below that. The moment you reject anhything that comes from God (this nation has rejected the prophets), the devil, the father of death, takes over.

You now have one spec of dust of the matter.

ATAR_i said...

Just as I thought - you made it up.

onthestreet said...

Made in the image of God. (;

Men In Black said...

Let see "Tree of Death"
Qlippoth are the shells of the dead. They are the rulers of the Tree of Death.

They are the Disputers and their primary function is to accuse the followers of God that they too may

be condemned.

It is by the use of Judgement that they hope to regain their stations and obtain Mercy.

Qlippoth are without exception evil.

Use of the names and titles of these fallen beings are not recommended, as the karmic implications areinescapable.

WHAT DO YOU THINK, DOES IT FIT?
"by the use of Judgement that they hope to regain their stations and obtain Mercy"

I THINK ITS A FIT!

Men In Black said...

Another version of the Tree of Death;

Tree of death
Capsula Mundi is a design for a biodegradable coffin made from starch plastic that holds the deceased in a fetal position. The stunning artwork was created by Italian designers Anna Citelli and Raoul Bretzel:
"Capsula Mundi is planted in the earth like a seed. Above it, to signal the presence of occupied space, is a shallow concave circle dug out of the ground. In the center of which, a tree is planted, the essence of it chosen in life by the dead one, the care of this tree is the responsibility of everyone. The aim is ecological burial, literally a more natural way to decay.

The cemetery will, then, acquire a new look. No longer the overpopulated urban environment with congested architecture, it will be a natural one in contact with the earth, enveloping expansive areas, entire hills consecrated to the cult of the dead. Summarizing, it is a different landscape devoted to the worship of our ancestry: a sacred forest."

No OTS didn't mean this one!

Men In Black said...

THE TREE OF DEATH

Here's another, can OTS be trusted with such information?

Tree of Death
Cerbera odollam, a plant that grows in India and southeast Asia, is also known as the "suicide tree" because people munch it to kill themselves. Apparently, it's also used to rub out young wives who aren't well-liked by their in-laws. From New Scientist:
Although the kernels of the tree have a bitter taste, this can be disguised if they are crushed and mixed with spicy food. They contain a potent heart toxin called cerberin, similar in structure to digoxin, found in the foxglove.

Digoxin kills by blocking calcium ion channels in heart muscles, which disrupts the heartbeat. But while foxglove poisoning is well known to western toxicologists, (researcher Yvan) Gaillard says pathologists would not be able to identify Cerbera poisoning unless there is evidence the victim had eaten the plant. “It is the perfect murder,” he says.

Men In Black said...

I FOUND IT!

ITS THE TREE OF GOOD AND EVIL, BUT YOU NEED TO BE 16 or SO TO VIEW IT.

The Tree of Death and Life
1481. The Archbishop of Saltzburg's missal.
Bayerische Staatsbibliothek

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/AdamNeve/a_n_e02.html

onthestreet said...

You prove it to everyone, that you're a sexual pervert.

onthestreet said...

That is just an artist's conception, of what? It doesn't tell you the various departments, the paths, the creative process, nor the process of ascending and descending like the angels.

Eureka, Eureka, YOU FOUND IT!!!! A false picture of nothing.

Anonymous said...

So that was you? The model for that famous descending the staircase painting? Eureka.

mugwump said...

ots

You're as lost as a goose in a snowstorm without the benefit of radar. You are flying upside down and backward into the peak of the highest mountain near where you enter your pathetic whimpers into you computer.

onthestreet said...

Ahh, the sheep also was lost, and was found. The snow goose is truly an amazing bird. That was quite healing for you to acknowledge that I fly, instead of dwelling in the muggy mire. Peter was also ascended "upside down". And yes, my peak is to the highest mountain. You concurrences are admirable.

mugwump said...

According to tradition Peter was crucified with his head pointing downward. Who witnessed his assention?

Tradition has been propagated by the Roman Catholic Church which, for all purposes was created at the very Nicea where your Self Proclaimed Profit (intentional)claimed that all Chistendom went astray. The intellectuals meeting in Nicea led to development of the Latin Vulgate. JS's revisions of the KJV came from between Smith nether cheeks.

Are you recognizing the acts done at Nicea and the Catholic Church's traditions? Do YOU have LDS recognized authority to reverse Smith's opinions?

Since the KJV et. al translations originated not from the Latin Vulgate, but from ancient and original translations, the translations from original texts predate JS's revisions and therefore have authority and authenticity which JS's lacks.

mugwump said...

JS couldn't translate Egyptian on the papyri he purchased that later proved to be instructions for care of dead bodies. From thence came "Pearl of Great Price"

onthestreet said...

See, we accept truth wherever it is found. "Astray" doesn't mean without some truth. Yet, much of what you say here (regarding the papyri, nicea, etc.) is just some of the jabbing and searching opinions that you have read from others. Doesn't make it true, now does it.

Joseph is a god, might and strong, and all that God speaks, being Almighty, is truth. Yet, much of the world mocks His very word, and calls God Himself a liar. So I'm sure Joseph can take it too, while all their hosts do battle. It is upon you.

onthestreet said...

You see, there may have been instructions on the care of dead bodies among the papyri, as well as that book. Thus your presumed little story, presuming the two to be one.

mugwump said...

astray means "lost" stupid. Quit attempting to write your own dictionary.

Old Joe bought the papyri. He didn't dig it our of the ground in Palmyra, NY. His claim at translating any kind of Egyptian was debunked after the Rosetta Stone allowed scholars to compare heiroglyphics to cudiform. Only then was an accurate translation of the papyri completed. "Pearl" was proven to be a hoax, another method of extracting money from uneducated, unsophisticated people who fell for Smith's garbage.

The characters on the papyri are well known by Egyptologists. Smith did not have the scholarship to translate anything. Like everything for which his is given credit, no absolute, concrete, record can be found. His efforts were those of a master charlatan, a diviner, a sorcerer, a fake, a thief and a scoundrel.

You can't make a purse out of a sow's ear, and old Smitty was certainly no purse. Hot that he wouldn't rob your purse, if he had the chance.

onthestreet said...

MUGGY (9/15/2005 2:48 PM):

Just a hint, muggy. By starting your posts with insults like
“stupid” and other juvenile defenses, is just, um, what shall we say, juvenile? It just makes you look bad. Okay, where were we? How do you know that the
“Rosetta Stone” wasn’t the fake? The world today is RIFE with forgeries and creations of men, to fulfill the prophecy that “Satan SHALL deceive the whole world (Rev. 13). Nothing of God is
“proven” wrong, but men often (daily) proven their own errors, and especially in forging things (http://www.comevisit.com/lds/bom-evid.htm#iii).

Today some critics are fond of pointing out that the Book of Mormon is written in the very language of Joseph Smith's own society. That is as if a professor of French literature were to prove Champollion a fraud by showing after patient years of study that his translation of the Rosetta Stone was not in Egyptian at all but in the very type of French that Champollion and his friends were wont to use! The discovery is totally without significance, of course, because Champollion never claimed to be writing Egyptian, but to be rendering it into his own language. To test his Egyptian claims we would have to go back not to Grenoble but to Egypt; and for the same reason, to test the claims of the Book of Mormon to antiquity we do not go back to the town of Manchester but to the world from which it purports to come. There is only one direction from which any ancient writing may be profitably approached. It must be considered in its original ancient setting and in no other. Only there, if it is a forgery, will its weakness be revealed, and only there, if it is true, can its claims be vindicated.

By the way, “heiroglyphics” is “hieroglyphics”, and “cudiform” is actually “cuneiform”. You got em both quite wrong, but they’re just typos. So muggy, do you see from the above who the hoax is, and the uneducated and unsophisticated, and who’s garbage it is posing as truth? As for the Prophet “not having the scholarship to translate…”, neither did Moses have the technology to blast open the Red Sea. Do you refute all events of the miraculous order? Better not, your own life is miraculous. God does not deal with mankind in
“absolutes and concretes” as you put it, but requires faith to faith.” Without any trust in him and those who he anoints, and in their stupidity in the eyes of the world, so that faith MUST be required, and also to shun all things earthly in order to further fulfill God’s mysterious ways, you become just a brute without hope, and “a master charlatan, a fake, a thief, and a scoundrel”, as you yourself put it. You become not just a swine’s ear, but the whole swine.

onthestreet said...

You see, Muggy, if man based his faith on his own works and proofs, you would glorify man, even yourself, and not God. But by walking as a little child (for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven), then you can learn and be loved as a favorite of heaven, and not as a dog outside the gates of the city.

mugwump said...

Move over inmates, ots is in route to the looney bin.

He defies scholarship, he halucinates, digs up obscure events unsupported by a second opinion to prove his points. He furnished no concrete evidence.

If it ain't from the following of ole' Joe, it ain't so!

Street, when you begin to act sane, you will be treated as sane.

onthestreet said...

God forbid your "saneness", for it is INSANITY PERSONIFIED.