There are many viewers if not posters on this blog who are not familiar with our history. I know great changes began to happen in the eighties and continued until now. Let's just focus on warren for a bit. Help me list the changes he has brought about. Maybe it will help others understand why some of us have left but not denied that there is still truth in Fundamental Mormonism. I think it has been made clear that not all of us think and act like warren. Perhaps this will help explain why.
Street:
I know you will try to justify all the changes however you can. So please do not repost in every one of your replies, it really isn't necessary. All you need to do is give a name and time, anyone interested enough can go back and read the post. And please keep them short as possible. :)
63 comments:
No covenants in heaven
Marriage age
Marriage without parents knowledge
Instant divorces with no input from husband
No recreation
No socializing
No meetings except for work assignment
Kickouts without trial or at least letting one know the offense
Organization of a church
Location of Zion
No need to pay debts because end is imminent
Building temple
I know some of these began during U. Rulons tenure. I believe they were done under warren's influence.
A few more
Moderation in all things--don't tell me 20 hour days fits in this category.
Parents partook so much of Babylon that they are unworthy of training their own children.
Prying into other's bedrooms. I personally believe that prying deep into other's private lives (making sure they are "morally pure") is indicative to moral hypocricy, and yes, I have been through this, and it's no fun.
God and the Prophet always and only do right--bright red flag indicating priestcraft.
Priesthood schools removing the Savior out of everything and replacing it with the Prophet or Father because they "are more tangible"
One thing I wish is that Warren would listen to Paul Overstreet's song, "What God has joined together let no man put assunder........"
If he believed that Uncle Roy and Uncle Rulon were prophets, then why is he undoing everything they did???
The blog is becomming a billboard for spam ads.
Come on Street! Is that the best defense you can give?
I guess he was just blowing smoke when he made the challenge to me to list all the changes warren has made. Truth is he can't defend with logic so he has confuse with BS.
well, this poor 14 year old kid has an appointment to see "uncle" Lyle because he watched a movie in St George.....The kid is so confused he says there is nothing here for him and he doesn't believe any of the crap they are pushing. So does he go to Lyle and tell him to take a hike or does he keep up with the crap..tell the truth he loses his family. Lie, and he gets sucked in even more. What do I tell the kid.
This boy is still a dependent of his father. He should let him take care of it. If his father will not stand up for him he has already lost his family. Lyle has no legal authority over this boy. Maybe if his father is put on the spot of taking responsibility we will find some have more backbone than appears.
Any way this goes is a tragedy. Tell the boy he has many friends who he never met praying and willing to help if they can.
To the administrator:
Is there a way that you can automatically delete posts from anonymous posters that include a link?
Thankya for the delete, administrator. Is there a way that we can notify you quickly when that kind of stuff appears, so we don't have to wait for you to troll the board?
Unfortunately this is the downside of having an open blog. I try to pull down all the spam and/or obscene posts, but I can't spend my entire existence sitting at this keyboard. Apparently the automated spammers have found us. They seem to be triggered anytime someone starts a new thread. I am looking into moving this site onto a message board that will allow for more control, but for now the choices are to keep the blog open or close it to anonymous comments...something that the vast majority of you said you want to avoid.
Weblog Administrator
Choose the Right! TURN WARREN JEFFS IN!
Call America's Most Wanted
1-800-CRIMETV It's confidental, Jeffs can't trace call back to you. From any phone in USA.
Or on internet: http://www.americasmostwanted.com/report_tip/
To the administrator:
I vote to keep it up and open to all.
It is much better to have it in the condition that it now exists in, than to not have it.
I cannot think of anything that anyone has done ever, that has given the world this kind of insight into this closed society.
We do appreciate you.
I second the vote and the kudos.
Someone said in a different post that On the street is Warren. I believe it is too. Everything he says is a whirlwind of words with very little meaning. Just words thrown together to make it sound "official" It just keeps going in circles. If Warren is so great, then WHY IS HE HIDING?
Sorry one more thing about On The Street. I have contacted the authorities. I too believe that since this may be Warren defending himself (funny how no one else is on these posts. Oh it's probably because they aren't ALLOWED to use the internet), they should know and they said they would track the posts and find out where they are coming from. A child molester should definitely go to jail.
Oh and On the street, you need to tell Warren that the teachers he is hiring for your schools aren't so good. Your spelling is atrocious. Very uneducated. The "Prophet" Warren must not be getting the proper signals from god on proper English and spelling. An almighty man like Warren (yeah right) should be automatically given the gift of proper spelling if god is talking to him all the time.
Warren was the one who started saying ". . .and the prophet" after every mention of God. He began to subtly insert the prophet into every reference to God, and then saying the prophet is as God to us, thus changing our worship of God to a worship of a man.
He started this while Uncle Rulon was alive, all the while setting up his takeover of the power and authority.
He also went against all the previous prophets in beginning to marry women to their husband's sons after they were widowed. This paved the way for him to marry his own mothers. (What a creep!)
He also went against BY's teachings of "I teach them correct principle and let them govern themselves" by intruding into every miniscule area of our lives, including how to dress, the styles, colors, and patterns to wear, whom to associate with, when and how husbands and wives could sleep together, and the specific words to use in prayer. This is absolutely an abuse of power.
One time after I had decided I didn't believe in his crap and had stopped praying for him, my children informed me that "if you don't pray for the prophet then God won't hear your prayer."
Apparently, this is what they had been being fed in the "priesthood" schools. I was completely incensed and informed them that God will, indeed, hear my prayer and that they had been lied to.
Just more of the same old Hitler trick. . .turn the children against the parents and have them spy on their family and turn them in for the slightest cause.
Could it be that Street is using the proper spelling for the Adamic language? Or is that Moronic language?
To Anonymous who posted at 2:28, may I ask (with the utmost respect) why everyone in CC and Hildale do not stick together and stand up against Warren? You obviously know right from wrong. Others must know the same. Why don't all of you band together and fight for the things you truly believe in? Everyone may have some opinions that differ, but on the whole you all must have the same feeling of deception, the understanding that he is a liar out for his own profit and self satisfaction. Why doesn't everyone keep the old ways and turn against him? Is it that hard?
Let's see if On the street replies again now that he knows that FBI and other authorities are tracking these posts.
Darn!
I was kind of hoping street would give us the explantions for all the changes. The idea was to let those who don't understand have some idea how drastic things have changed. Street is often incoherent and his spelling is not the best, but he reflects many of the cock-eyed justifications the followers of warren use.
Oh well, a failed experiment would be a worthy sacrifice for putting a stop to warren.
Someone mentioned that OTS was warren, and I must confess that I did indeed not believe my opinion of warren (or OTS) could be lower than it already is.
However, combining those two characters would indeed sink that character to sub human depths.
I doubt it myself - although I'm not certain why. They are both certifiably nuts, both have whacked out theologies and like to bluff and threaten. I like to think that warren is more persuasive than OTS - who has no ability to sway whatsoever - and lacks any skillful manipulative abilities that are evident (at least online).
I would lose some respect for a group of people who could be manipulated by OTS's type of flimsy Streetology. I believe warren - although certifiably nuts and whacked out - does have the manipulative, deceiptful, cunning thing down pat.
Warren said we should be calm at all times. We were not to laugh loudly or be at all "silly". Even the word "FUN" was banished.. although I never knew why?
Weblog Admin:
Thanks for all your hard work trying to make this blog work. I have to admit, though, I really perked up when I read what you said: "I am looking into moving this site onto a message board..."
I have been wanting to suggest that for some time. A real forum / message board would be so much better and easier to keep up with. A blog format is extremely hard to follow.
Good luck, and again, thanks for the time you can afford to keep this available and spam-free.
Willy???
if they want you as bad as they want Warren, you have no need to fear, they will probably protect you. Or look the other way and say they are doing the best they can!
atari:
If you've listened to warren's tapes you know that he doesn't make any sense at all, even less than street. warren has spent his whole life in a position where no one ever argued with him. No one talked back, at least not twice, because of the reprimands he dished out. He has always been in a position to demand that people believe him.
The only people he skillfully manipulates are the ones that have grown up in much the same manner, although on the other end of things. They have been told what to do their whole lives and have been taught since birth to believe every word the profit utters. They have been taught from birth that it is a sin to question anything an elder or profit teaches.
warren couldn't convince a normal group of people to put coats on in the middle of a blizzard......he just isn't that good. His kind of magic only works on those under his spell. This spell takes a couple of generations of isolation from society to reach full power.
As far as things he's changed, I heard he changed the Adam-God doctrine, but I don't know for sure. I haven't lived in or around CC for quite a few years and I must admit that I didn't listen too good when I did live there.
Long Time Gone
Actually the Adam-God doctrine is one that I think can honestly be given to his father, under the influence of the Barlows.
Warren disciplines by public humiliation.
He stopped hockey, and all recreation.
He made it so that contributions are mandatory, not voluntary. Robin Hood, where are you?
He stopped allowing repentance.
He teaches fear not faith.
Thanks Anon, I have listened to a tape, I'd love to hear more if anyone has one they want to send.
atar_i@hotmail.com
To those who think OneTheStreet is Warren,You could not be more WRONG!OTS and Warren have entirley diffrent personalities.Most former FLDS know who OTS is,and he is not Warren.
We spent hours weeding all "animals that talk" out of text books for the private schools. Because animals don't talk and we don't teach a lie. That also took away any animals that wear clothes. Bye, bye Disney... Hours upon hours weeding out songs that were nonsense songs or fairy tales or animals talking.
There was not much left to use and we had to start inventing our own. Pretty soon any thing "gentile" was of the world and couldn't be used. Then the radio station shut down, there wasn't anything left to talk about or any songs that were acceptable to play. "New Age" was acceptable but I didn't enjoy the mysterious flavor.
"Father" was the word of choice. Any story that said Papa or Daddy was crossed out and wrote over.
Because we don't teach lies..that also did away with Holidays because of the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus and they were just merchant holidays. We would spend the holidays working our buts off at work projects and back to "real" work after. No Breaks!
Mandatory Saturday Projects. At first it was a volunteer thing to help build the meeting house. And people would just come when they could. Then it was every Saturday. Then by 2002 it was mandatory and they had sign in sheets to hand into WJ. and if you didn't show up you would be repremanded. And soon the friends and loved ones were checking on each other to see if they were there. Pretty soon church was that way. If they didn't see you there, you were questioned. All well meaning relatives hoping that you could grasp the vision and not get left behind.
Each church was "new" revelation of if you didn't do "this" you would not get lifted up.
It started with NOT wearing red ties and red dresses.
And everyone complied so well, that they actually would go and ask "What else can we do?" Then it was longies.
And dressed from ankles to wrists.
Each thing was a little thing and each was policed by well meaning relatives.
Now if you have a TV in your house you will not be lifted up. Or any movies.
Purge again.
Then there started to be some really nice houses. And it was told that our houses would be lifted up if we were clean every whit and it was too. So we started cleaning cruisades. And started helping others that couldn't clean themselves. Or good enough for "our" standards. If you had any "bad" books your house would'nt come. And then if you had any bad thoughts.
And we thought it was all good because our town looked so nice and people were painting houses and raking there yards. And anyone that didn't was sliding down to hell. There was alot more money flowing and people upgraded alot.
Colorado City was a poor town,in my estimation, until the 90's. Growing up my Dad was always gone trying to make a living. Home on Saturday, and left after church on Sunday. After the boys were big enough to work, they worked and Dad stayed home. We were always late on power bills and had the power off alot of the summer. Almost never had long distance phone service. Never traveled or went any where other than to town once a month. And most of the time that was just a mother and a child and my turn came around about once or twice a year.
Not all families were that way, but alot were.
We planted gardens and orchards and bottled fruit and vegtables to beat the band. You can live off of almost nothing if you don't have house payments, and live out of the second hand stores. And eat bottled fruit and make your own bread.
They are actually to be complimented on how to raise a big family frugally. But they say that Utahans are the most gulible people in the world. They just think that all people are doing good. Because they are.
Outsider
What happened to the boy you spoke of?
to be good:
Brings back a few memories. I grew up a little earlier than you and left BRW (before rulon and warren) so I was only involved in voluntary work projects. But you know what I would love for dinner? A big thick slice of mom's home-made wheat bread smothered with butter and honey along with a big bowl of home bottled peaches. Oh what a treat.
That's one more thing warboy has changed. My mom can't invite me home anymore.
Long Time Gone
"mother"...
"mother"...
shouldn't it say mothers?
I guess if you're going by this song, and only kids with ONE mother get to gather round the table witht the LORD - doesn't that mean we WON'T see you there (don't worry, if I remember I'll throw you a crust).
Hey OTS; that's just one more way that Warren is the opposite of Christ. Christ says "Come follow me" and Come Home etc. Warren says "Go away" "repent from afar", "you are not good enough for me" etc.
I don't know why, but I don't think OTS is WJ... If there are those who know for sure who OTS is, I wish they'd share. Id ask him myself, but i don't think he knows.
Wow, new age, astrology, pretty soon you'll be telling us you wear long black outfits and have memorized all the wiccan incantations (only the ones that are true and real of course).
LOL, I love it - now the FLDS are pro choice and advocating for women's education (how much education do most the girls get again?) - but pro choice - is the coup de gras.
His handle should have been circle the streets.
I've lost my appetite. This is getting way too snippy.
Long Time Gone
fttc - LOL. How about U Turn
LONG TIME GONE:
Come to Canada.. We've got bottled peaches and whole wheat bread. Uncle Wink would see to it that you didn't leave hungry.
Just Wanted To Be Good:
Wow! That really SUCKS! I grew up flds as well, although I was Canadian. My life was wonderful compared to yours! I dont say that to be rude, I just want you to know that not all the flds families were like that.. Uncle Winston used to have a Winter Fest around Christmas time.. everyone was welcome. We had sleighrides, skiing, hockey hockey hockey, weiner roasts, and programs. Around Valentines we had a SweetHeart program. This was where we had an oportunity to express our gratitude or affection for that special someone through a song or poem. I remember when uncle winston did some bible story programs and we could buy copies if we wished. I still have them and they are priceless to me. (even though warren told us to destroy the evil things!)
Divaqs
That's the sort of thing that OTS does. States he's pro-choice - which to anyone today would mean he is pro abortion.
Then, he'd come out and say - pro choice means something different than what it really means. He'd probably throw a few hebrew words in - and then tell how hundreds of years ago it meant something different (and that's how he was using it).
Sort of being able to say whatever you want to justify a position - state how 'liberal' he is and how he is pro-choice. But can dive underneath a loophole stating he really didn't mean what he said - he means something different - and thus it's US whose perverted.
I don't even believe the FLDS of today would call themselves pro choice by any definition. Pro choice today means pro abortion. It might have meant something else a long time ago - but TODAY it means pro abortion.
IN the dictionary THIS is the definition of pro choice. And THIS is what OTS was leading us to believe his opinion was - because - he's speaking to me - who isn't FLDS, or LDS and wouldn't have any idea what sort of meaning that MIGHT have given to that word hundreds of years ago
Pro-choice
Favoring or supporting the legal right of women and girls to choose whether or not to continue a pregnancy to term.
Soooooo, guess what - that's what he said, that's what he means.
OTS can say whatever he feels like, we are not flds. If U.Warren has kicked him out then, he is no longer part of us anyway so therefore can not speak for us.
what I meant was we are not for abortion. Sorry for the mistake. yes, we are flds. My apology to you.
Anon 10:43
Thanks for your input! I wish more of you would speak for yourself instead of letting street have free reign.
Nope you stated you were pro choice and liberal - there is no separate meaning just because you live in Southern Utah - it means what it means.
You believe a woman has a right to choose an abortion.
You are liberal - which puts you in the Ted Kennedy, Madeline Murray O'Hare category - YOU said it - NOT ME.
And - I didn't think that FLDS was pro choice - so thanks for speaking up anon - and confirming that.
Stick it to 'im atar! Street talked himself into a corner, don't let him sidestep it.
Anon 8/13 3:23:
I spent some time in Canada when I was in high school, about a month in two different summers. I stayed with a Blackmore family one summer. I don't remember their first name but I do remember their attitude very well. They fed us awesome food, made sure we had a place to sleep, and when we left they tried to pay us for the work we had done while staying.
It boggled my mind! Getting paid for working?!!? We turned the money down but when we left the guy followed us in his truck trying to get us to pull over to make sure we were taken care of.
Long Time Gone
OTS is a deceiver, a snake. He says one thing, believes another, and does - yet still a third thing.
If his aim is to be hated in order to be righteous it won't work. It's a thinking error - just because we all think you're crazy doesn't make you a persecuated righteous man - it makes you a unbalanced, insane lunatic
In reply to :"I can't imagine a loving father taking his very young daughter and giving him to a man"?
You have to understand that most FLD do not believe that Warren Jeffs has a "problem". He is a wonderful man to all of them. Having girls married to the prophet is a very great honor for the family and the girl.
Do all children grow up expecting to be sexually ravaged by their fathers and uncles?
NO! Of course not. You hear of problems but they are the exception. My father was a great man and so were all the fathers of the girls I went to school with. Most girls feel honored to live plural marriage. I know that I wanted to. And would have willingly and still would. I am not content to just be status quo. Plural marriage is a constant change and a learning experience for everyone involved. It's great!
I know that this world isn't perfect, but I don't think that there is more abuse in our society
then there is any where else.
We love our children. We want to see them grow up in a safe environment and get an education.
We also have to pay taxes.
Commonlaw relations are legal. We are not the only people that have children with out a marriage license. I do love my family,and my children are loved and protected,they aren't "bastards".
Try not to believe everything you read. My father owns his own business. He is a very hard worker. I have always felt very loved and protected. When I decided I wanted to get married everyone tried to talk me out of it.I did not care what anyone thought. I was ready to get married,and I have not regretted my choice. I am married to a kind loving father. I don't beleive that I could be happier,or more in love. I just hope that my children can always feel safe and know I'll always be there if they need me. I guess I'm just a normal parent.
Mugwump....
So we're pretty darn lucky to be born now, not like those of God's children who were born under the law?
You think he hates them that much?
What did they do?
Mugwump....
You're thoroughly self-consumed yourself.
My mother was married AFTER high school. Both of my grandmothers were married AFTER high school. My grandmother even graduated from college (very early 1900's) AND THEN got married.
I don't think there have been any of my grandmothers married prior to their HS graduation in the three generations prior to me.
My husbands mother was married AFTER high school, both of his grandmothers were married AFTER high school.
That brings about 8 grandmothers just related directly to my husband and I that go back to the 1800's who WERE NOT married prior to graduation from high school.
anyone else?
AN old maid is a lady who was never married. Waiting a few years never hurt anyone. My grandmother, who went to college, went to a four year nurses training course. She met her husband taking care of the sick. Their union has been a blessing to all the generations coming after them.
They purchased large areas of land, and gave them to all of their offspring. My grandmother helped during the war, and you can still find references to the generous spirit of my grandfather online (and no I'm not giving myself away).
Now, they had plenty of kids each family having several to 6. I know that sounds ridiculous to many FLDS, but when you put that many kids through college - it does add up. And that grandmother of mine did just that.
She lived in a home they built, overlooking the land she and my grandfather had purchased, given to their children, and that their children had built their homes on. That, is where I grew up.
I am proud of my heritage.
How do you what Jesus is always doing - pretty presumptuous (and obviously not true - just more 'little man' bravado).
Don't call evil what the Lord has called good.
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