I just finished Elissa's book. It was definitley an engrossing read. I thought she laid out a very interesting and heart wrenching story. I have a lot of respect for not only her but the independence streak I saw in the Walls that I knew growing up in the group. Elissa if you lurk on this blog, Bravo on your book. God bless you and your family.
Any others who want to comment on her book?, or stories of their own who were involved in her history?
69 comments:
Hear's a comment! How about Lamont stalking a married woman for a couple of years!!!
Who is Lamont? I haven't read the book, I assume he's someone in the book.
My only question for all anti-FLDS authors is what real, physical, concrete proof do they have? Sensationalism sells books, but what substance do they have to back up their claims? I want to know the real truth, not some "made for TV" version of the truth.
Lamont is the man Elissa eventually married. They started their relationship while Elissa was still "married" (I put this in quotes because she was 14 at the time and didn't really consent to the marriage) to her cousin, whose name is escaping me.
I wouldn't call Lamont's relationship with Elissa "stalking" at all. They were mutual friends, and from what I can tell she never resented his being in her life.
Read Stephen Singulars new book, "When Men Become Gods". I just finished it, and before that I read Elissa Walls Book.
Stephen goes into great detail about Warren Jeffs and his control over Men, Women and Children, and of course All the Properties and Money.
Trust me Carolyn Jessop, Elissa Wall and no other Person who left , ran. or were thrown out of Flds have made millions, or even thousands on the books theyve written.
What they have done is open up and abominable desecration of families, and relationships by a "few men" hungry for power, regardless who gets hurts, or how much it costs.
Since men like Warren Jeffs, Kelley Fischer, Rodney Holm, Dale Barlow have been covicted already for crimes against underage girls, by evidence, and testimony, why do some people not beleive?
Ive read some of the remarks by former flds people here on this blog, although they were hurt, they still have their faith, it didnt destroy their way of worship. They just Changed "GODS" from Warren Jeffs, to God Himself, which is the way it should of been anyway.
Has anyone heard of another "raid" on the flds ranch in Colorado?
I just had someone ask me if I had heard about it??? I did not know anything..not trying to start anything...just asking.
Ive heard of no raid in colorado. Its a place with mostly grandmothers, and 3 children, I wouldnt see any reason for a raid.
Singulars book really annoyed me, with his loose hold on facts and it read like Nancy Graces shreiking. He just put in book form all the media apin on the story. For instance, he refers to Laurie Allen as a former FLDS, which she never was. He really didn't give any good insight, just rehashed the same crap over again.
ogre
I have to disagree with you. Ive read stories of many people who have left flds, including Benjamin Bistline. I know some say he's just an old man, but you know he kept very good records,most FLDS do. They journal, and kept bishop records, and they have paper trails. True since technology and computers, Im sure most of their business practices were put on computers, but FBI now has those to.
Changes need to be made in FLDS, starting with members, realizing they can support their families, and not have to be required to marry so many women.
Let People keep more of their hard earned money, and pay them for the work they do.
Elissa wall did not convict any one. The person she lied about was inacent. Her book will not bring her any relief from her lie. Every sould who knows any thing about this knows she did a good act of show and tell to convict an inacent man! Money! Glory! lies! and raids, to destroy! What will it get in the end. Each of us will close our eye's in crossing tot he next life, and all we will take with us is our lies or our inacence; what ever it is we have done. And Elissa wall was only the pawn in the game of deciet! Power and glory: riches and fame: keep it with your boy freind you traded for decency.
the word is 'innocent'...
I haven't read Elissa book but the truth is there. Elissa miscarried a child while in Canada under the care of Jane Oler Blackmore, Ms Blackmore has no reason to lie.
While some of the FLDS that have left will always be victims, there many more like Elissa that are SURVIVORS.
anon 9:56
To clarify, I found Elissa's book very engaging and well put together, Singulars felt like a series of newspaper articles,and while he brought a lot of points, it was very poorly put together. He didn't have any personal experience, just repeated what he had heard.
Let me make it simple. The person Elissa wall testified against is anot guilty. It is this lie she will live with forever and ever. Your attention and glory to her, will never change that. She may rejoice in her deciet, but in the end that is what she will have. Lies and deciet, and your empty words.
yes, for a story. It may be well written. It may be detailed. It may have some truth to it. But it carry's the greatest of all lies. Just like Laurie Allen's film, and Dan Fisher's deciet. It carries the greatest of all lies. It helped convict an inacent person. And truth can not be undone. What is done will be carried into eternity. Elissa wall has chosen her deciet. She has chosen her guilt. she has chosen her lie. What she traded for another man will be with her forever. I pity her; because she will know forever what she gave up. she will be the one to live with her lie forever. she will be the one to be consumed by her own guilt. like all evil people are. If she was happy, she would have never been craving the glory of a book. Was Lamont not enough for her, or does she always have to have a new glory, to cover her lie?
Okay ogre, I understand what you meant about Singluars book. Thanks.
I know for those of us who have never lived Flds, we cant completely put ourselves in yall's shoes.
There have been some awesome former Flds people who have posted here, and along with all the books and stories of xflds peoples lives ive read, Most all are very touching and sad in many aspects.
I know the catholic church does what they call excommunication, but you can still go to church, and still be with family, you just cannot take communion. I dont think a religion should be able to excommunicate anyone, regardless which one.
anon 10:36, Warren i s anything but innocent. He has destroyed more families, caused more women to commit adultry, and killed more mens souls than I care to count. For Gods sake, why do these women move to another man like its okay?
The life I have outside the group, some 16 years later is so full of joy and love, I can't imagine having my life down to the clothes I wore, or the words I spoke to have to be approved of by another man
Ruth, I thought Eldon's computer wasn't working every time you wanted to post. How did you sneak in without him staging a computer failure?
(For those that don't understand, the person misspelling inacent is likely Ruth, and Eldon's house is where she posts from.)
who is eldon?
who is eldon?
wouldn't your really love to have your day dream's become reality. It is a cop out to blame another man for your failure! I am glad you that are happy out there are. Just do not let your venom runneth over. Happy promotes happy. You can not blame and lie, and accuse if you are happy. It is impossible. And Elissa Wall has a few things she failed to mention; like truth!
the 'profit' is inacent!!! but the prophet is not innocent.
I have read of many accounts of x FLDS that do not write books, they state their facts simply and honestly...one account is of a Mother who leaves with her children after her 15 year old daughter was given to an older man, neither Mother or daughter has writen a book. Ms Blackmore hasn't writen a book, but her story is there to read. She was fortunate to have an education and a career.
Unfortunatly most of us Gentiles buy into the sensational stories.
10:11 here, Eldon Black's is where she does her posting from, just like I said in the previous post.
And Elissa Wall has a few things she failed to mention; like truth!
8/14/2008 9:10 AM
It's interesting to me, how all the "refugees from polygamy", tell pretty much the same story, although they all are not from any one polygamous group. yet they are all accused of lying. how can anyone know if they are all lying, without being closely associated with all the different groups?
yes, how can you tell who is lieing and who is not? But one thing is certian; all truth stands for-ever. All lies, lie upon the decietful, and all know when they speak truth and all know when they lie.
and yes, it is sad that Gentiles buy into sensational story's instead of truth. Yes, how sad. Yes, how sad. sad indeed; but hope is on the horizion. there are some people who are not gentiles, and sensationalist's. there are some people that care. I have no bad feelings towards Elissa wall. I feel for her. Maybe she reached out in her way and was failed too. Maybe she was hurt. Who defended her in the criticle moment, to keep her from the tradgedy she participated in.
Dear Elissa Wall. I have just read your book. I did cry. what opportunities you had. You also did fill in some gaps for me. I make my apoligy for interfering in your choices. That is one thing that is most valuable in this life. choices. There is no force in this church. You have made it clear what your choice has been. I did cry to read your account. I shall tell nothing of my story and why I cry. You, I feel for. That is all. And to all the rest of you. I also apoligize, for speaking;
"There is no force in this church."
PLEASE...
Wake up! Quit deluding yourself. Look in the mirror and have the courage to admit the truth. If you don't call what happened to Elissa force then what in your world is force?
Let me just say, I would ahve given any-thing to have had her opportunity; and although there is no force in our church, that does not mean that all men are honorable! In the doctrine of our church, you will never find a good excuse for doing wrong. Not what a man tell's you to do, not what you think you should have done, not what could have been done; but the teachings will only bring joy, if you are living this. How-ever there is no doubt that Elissa wall has chosen to not be a member of this church; There-fore I have no right to speak. That does not make an inacent man quilty. That does not make all things true. I also cried the night for what she gave up. How sad. And now she has lost a choice, but she never wanted it so did she really win? And cops beating up a woman does not make the teachings of our church any less valid! Nor does lies and deciet of other's. It just simply implyied that they are not setting an example of truth. sort it out all ye, that voted for war; Who have you helped lately. Again Elissa Wall. I remember you. I shall be a long time in rememberance. Have a good life, with your glory and empty page.
The re-assignment of families has been reported from several sources and does not seem to be disputed as factual. I can not imagine those faithful to God allowing this practice and considering it to be "right" in their religion. I just can not seem to reconcile the Holy Union of Marriage with the awarding of wives and children as prizes to the most worthy.
Angel
and to the person who did try to correct the spelling on the word inacent; can you prove that is the correct spelling and the person writing the english language for you all, did not make a mistake a thousand years ago?
And Angel, in your society it is common to divorce and have affair's. can you qote your divorce rate, and broken family's. Let him who is with out sin cast the first stone. An innocent man was detained! And time in this mortal body is never for-ever. We are at war. Maybe you could spend some money on your shelter's, and save expenses, since you can read this book on line, with no cost. And by all means, flatter this woman, glory her up. And prepare for war, for it is here. Look at how many people have quilified for a buriel in just three weeks. Ye, my friends, I spent the night crying for this person. I have empathy for her, but I do not have sympathy. She clearly and passionatly states her position.
"although there is no force in our church, that does not mean that all men are honorable!"
Considering Elissa's story you'll have to put Warren in that category. If what he did to her wasn't force then I can't imagine what your definition of force is.
This is off the subject but does anyone remember Willie Jessop telling the media that he is monogamous. Something like he has one wife and one child. If so when and where.
"I also cried the night for what she gave up."
"There are none so enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free." - Goethe.
The only thing anyone gives up leaving the FLDS is trading slavery for freedom. But you wouldn't know that would you anon 10:44, you are still a slave.
Keep sweet, and God-forbid, don't question. Just put it on the shelf...
cheers
11:22
I detect the us vs them mentality. "He that is not FLDS is guilty of the crimes of the world". That's called the fallacy of guilt by association.
Willie said that he had A wife and a little boy (sometime when he was in Texas)...he later went to court to keep a private detective from coming on to his property because the detective was scaring his wifes and children.
Well excuse me, but the FLDS came to Texas knowing they were breaking TEXAS LAWS.
They kept breaking all kind of envirnomental Texas laws, then the bigamy law, not to mention sex with minors.
WILLING AND ALL KNOWING THEY WERE BREAKING TEXAS LAWS.
So excuse me as a Texas taxpayer I don't feel guilty if some of men and women end up in our prison system.
My regional Library owns 15 copies of Stolen Innocence, all of which are checked out, and there are another 50+ holds, so it seems us Canadians are interested in Elissa's story.
I read Ellisa's book and I applaud her bravery and courage to stand up for what she believed in. It takes a very strong person to "go against the grain" which is exactly what she did. I do not think that Ellisa cares what anyone thinks about her. She has a wonderful husband who loves her and two of the cutest kids I've ever seen. Whats more, she's Happy. God Bless her.
The end IS coming.....but not in the way that you think.
Don't keep sweet Texas !
Yank it off that shelf and fight for what you believe in !
Cheers !
Just a question..... and it is off subject. Didn't Warren ban the internet ?
Just a question..... and it is off subject. Didn't Warren ban the internet ?
I dont think Willie Jessop ever stated having wife in Texas, I beleive he said he had a "sister" in Flds at YFZ ranch.
We can all agree or disagree on Elissa Walls book, the fact is, shes not making millions off of it, neither did Carolyn.
Remember, the writer get a set amount for a book,, can negoiate royalites, but most of the time the Publishers get the royalties for printing and distributing the books.
For anyone who has experienced trauma, its healing to write about it, not all write books, but if they do, it gives others insight to different peoples lives.
The list of xFlds is extremely long. In all good faith, How can anyone think this many people are lying when they basically ALL told the same stories?
That is exactly the point. They all tell the same stories. They get their drama all mixed up with each other until they aren't even sure themselves who had which experience.
I should have known they would not get any money. There are a lot of sharks out there, and giving money to any one from the creek is not in the interest of these sensationalists. It is only in there interst to use these girl's. They are target's. And I realy do think Elissa Wall would have been a lot better off to tell the truth. Just like the rest of the girl's. But even if they did, the Anti-Polygamy group's would change the words, before it ever got printed. So, read it and weep. Elissa is no hero. Hero's tell the truth no matter what. She was a pawn. That is all.
8/17/2008 10:27 PM
***********
thats quite a sweeping statement.
could you please give us a few of the facts that you base it on?
If you all knew the entire truth, you would cry and end your war. You boast about being big on fighting. This country is at war. Who is going to enjoy it? have any of the people who bury there soldier's enjoying this. Are the people across the sea, enjoying burying there family's? War is a terrible thing. One thing for certian, Elissa Wall knows the truth. Why did she hate me? I do not know. Why would she lie? I do not know. Why did Flora hate me? I do not know. Why did the rest of them? Why did they not care? They had every-thing. Every-thing. Peace is a good thing to have. Some day maybe we will live in peace. But I guess it is not possible today. I have buried my dream and prepared for war. Maybe when your terrible war is over, the people like me will crawl out of our corner's and carry on; if we survive your war.
no one should pass another around as pets. Yes, look closly at your theory. Am I a pet that I should be debated? Am I a pet that I should be persicuted? Am I a pet, that I should be labled as an insider or an outsider? Am I a pet that I should be hassled, with no evidence of any wrong doing? Am I America's new sensationalistic pet? Yes, I agree; I am not a pet. I am a person. And crazy is defined by someones opinion. I may be brilliant to one, and crazy to another, and which opinion was right. If some one was crazy, they would be greatly ignored. I am not a pet. I am a person. And I have a right to leave a man as much as you do. I also have as much right to marry some one else as much as you do. I also have as much right to stay single. I am not a pet. I am a person.
8/19/2008 5:03 PM
oooooooooooooo
wow, dose Street have a sister?
well at least she's coming out o her shell, an talkin to us, thats a good sign
You know, it would be great if all these "annonymous"'s would register so there would be some way to tell them apart. It's really not difficult; you just need an email address, I think...
Anyway, to the woman who appears to be in FLDS, what exactly do Elissa and Flora lie about? What specific things? Do you agree Elissa was married to her cousin when she was 14? I'd love to hear your side of the story. If you don't want to talk here email me at robinUNDERSCOREchmuraATbaylorDOTedu
(Replace all the caps with the symbols)
who cares?
I read the book, and some of the things she said in it werent totally true. But then how is she suppose to sell a book if it doesnt have a "few" white lies??
you mean a great big, bold faced lie. so that the state can put more honest men away, cause you disagree with Church doctrine! read it and weep, cause all lies carry a heavy weight, and money and glory never brought happiness.
I keep seeing anyone who speaks out against the FLDS accused of lying. Why don't they take a look at themselves? In the 1950s they promised the government to stop underage marriages. Did it happen? Obviously not, it was a lie. Shall I recite more for your? Perhaps it is time for the FLDS to look for the lies and liars within their own ranks before pointing their fingers at others. I agree with you, however, lying DOES carry a heavy weight and I'm sure Jeffs now realizes that all the money and glory he obtained has yet to bring him happiness. Good point.
Well I think the FLDS have good things about them and bad things just like everyone else in the world! But for the most part I have found most of them to be honest and kind people who do the best they can.
I agree with you, queen b, that there are bound to be good and bad within the ranks of the FLDS. However, there are very vocal FLDS members and FLDS supporters who are creating the worst PR possible for the group. Their hypocrasy in calling everyone who points out the pain that their lifestyle has caused them "liars" when they themselves can be caught in lie after lie after lie is deeply insulting. Just how stupid do they think the rest of the world is? In fact, I read Barbara Jessop's little argument on Truth Will Prevail and I wanted to vomit. She actually had the nerve to complain that the injunction for the children not to have contact with their "loving" fathers was painful and traumatic. This, coming from someone who sat and said not a word when Warren Jeffs tore 100 fathers from their families, reassigned their wives and children to other men, and then told those children to never think of the fathers they had grown up with and loved, it beyond ludicrous. Was it not an even worse trauma and abuse? At least the State of Texas has not assigned "appropriate" or "acceptable" fathers for these children. The FLDS have created their own tragedy. They do not tell the truth to themselves, much less to the government that provides them the freedom to practice their religion *within the boundries of the law*. So when I see the constant cry of "LIAR! LIAR! LIAR!" I am understandably skpetical and tend to wonder what the FLDS are trying to hide now.
Uncle WArren did not tear any one from their family's. I had a right to leave my husband. He had a right to go to jail. It is too sad that you did all attack an inacent man. Your sins will catch up to you sooner or later.
I just finished Stolen Innocence, and waited for 3 months to get it from the library- so the story is being heard here in Missouri! I also read "When Men Become Gods" and "Escape". I am deeply saddened that these women all share such a horrible lifestyle without making a choice to live it. These girls are raised in the FDLS and forced to accept their fates handed out by a so called "prophet" who admitted he was a false Prophet.
How can anyone dispute these stories, what about all the young men exiled from the FDLS and thrown out as teens to make their way. Is anyone actually suggesting these are lies? Please wake up and see that while we fight wars in other countries to save "human rights" the same tragedies are going on in our own country under the veil of religios freedom. What a crock!!
I admire the courage this woman and the others who shared their stories showed. They had EVERYTHING to lose, and did lose thier families in this horror story. Bravo Elissa and to Carolyn Jessop for opening our eyes. I hope the authorities wake up and dig in before it goes any farther for the ones still out there.
it's one thing to point out real discrepancies in someone's story and quite another to yell lier lier, based on nothing more than propaganda.
interesting
i find this person who can not spell very irritating.
you are so head strong and brain washed,yet u cant even spell.
maybe ur just jealous that u didnt escape.
im sure she will comment back saying i am a sinner for even thinking that. haha
Elissa Wall was never legally married to Allen Steed. Her "marriage" at age 14 to her first cousin would not have been legitimate in any state in the Union. She BELIEVED that she was married because at 14, she did not have the wherewithal to question the edicts of Warren Jeffs and the FLDS. I applaud her bravery and her honesty. She has not withheld the "warts" in her past; she has not spared herself embarrassement.
For those of us who knew nothing about the abuse of children and wives in the FDLS, she gave us a window through which to learn. Her book is the first of many I have read on the subject, some by other "escaped" women such as Carolyn Jessop, one by a male victim, Brent Jeffs, and a some by respected non-fiction authors, Jon Krakauer and Stephen Singular.
When I first read Elissa Wall's book, I could hardly believe that such a situation could exist in the United States. For that reason, I spent the next few months examining the subject through articles and other books. These many books do not contradict one another, although they were written at various times by various authors. It seems to me that the truth is plainly visible now, and I wish those entrapped and brainwashed people suffering under such despotic leadership the opportunity to learn the truth and the courage to take back their own lives.
I am a teacher and have been a foster parent to several teens in need of a safe haven. Having seen the difficulties of adolescents who have support, I can't imagine how Elissa managed to survive whole. I commend her and wish her the best.
god bless you elissa, I'm praying for you and wishing you happiness
That poor girl was neither a grown woman nor a willingly married one. So if she developed a friendship and romance that she herself wanted while she was suffering through the time period before she was finally granted her exodus from the awful flds, and an awful forced "marriage" to a hated cousin, more power to her.
warren jeffs pushed a fourteen year old girl into an incestuous marriage and forced the marital situation upon both mr steed and elissa wall. this is a marriage that should never have taken place and as an adult and a leader warren jeffs is indeed guilty.
Elissa Wall has amazing courage!! Good for her for standing up for her self!!! I admire her!! God bless you Elissa and your family.
What gives you the right to judge people? Where you there when this Happen too Elissa Walls? If you have not been that person shoes do not judge them. You were not put on this earth to judge people no matter what kind of religion they believe in. KK
Oh my, your scope is limited indeed. Anonymous - Ruth - whomever you are. Your best bet is to stop talking and to stop typing.
FYI - you don't make a noun plural by adding an 's.
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