Wednesday, July 23, 2008

more questions.

Is Texas honestly trying to solve a problem,or is there political motivation in these indictments?
if the people indicted are imprisoned, will it end all the alleged misconduct among the Flds?
or will it bring forth a number of "new Prophets with a special calling", and result in a fragmenting of the present FLDS congregation?

66 comments:

Rebeckah said...

I believe that Texas is, and has been, sincerely trying to protect the vulnerable girls and young women in the FLDS. I seriously doubt that convictions will end misconduct among the FLDS but hopefully it will at least get other offenders to think a little. It would be nice to see more fragmenting of the present FLDS. From what I've read, the FLDS has been an unpleasant environment for many people for a long time, but only recently has it become abusive on such a large scale. I am still stunned that the group was so verbal about the outrages of having their children ripped away from them by the state when they do the same thing to the fathers without hesitation. I find it hard to believe family really means anything to them, just obedience to Jeffs.

Angel said...

I saw a news report, but it gave very few details about the indictments.... It gave the impression that this was the first step in many further steps....

Angel

Anonymous said...

I think as long as some men of FLDS [and I am just addressing what I've read or heard about the Jeff's group] keep proclaiming themselves as "prophets" of god" and subjugating the women [pretty much] as brood mares to produce young women they can then marry to continue the cycle, then it will always be the fox guarding the hen house. How better to keep them in line when followers [not all] are denied education and a voice in their own destiny. I think Texas was trying to help break the cycle...but it doesn't seem to have worked out too well, yet.Unfortunately, politics always raises it's ugly head in large cases.
It will be very interesting, in the next few weeks, to see what becomes of the new indictments....and who's names are on them!! Any guesses???

Anonymous said...

Rebeckah makes a good point. Does family really mean anything to the FLDS? Many men were sent away to repent because they loved the gift more than the giver of the gift. For example they loved their wife more than the "holey profit". I believe that FLDS are afraid to show any love anywhere except to Warren as they live in fear of being stripped and sent away to repent.

Anonymous said...

Is Harry Reid up for re-election this year? It's the voters in Nevada that will re-elect Harry, not Utahans, Texans or voters in any other state. The Mormons have been humiliated and embarrassed by the FLDS. The other LDS church has enormous numbers of Mormons who live in Nevada. How do you think Reid was elected in the first place? It wasn't the "D" behind his name, it was the "M". The LDS Church wants clarity, and their reputation restored if possible. They are totally PISSED off that the nation and the world has confused them with the RLDS and also taken a closer look at them. Harry will be their champion, their hero to the rescue. How dare those RLDS, those dirty son-of britches, cause them so much embarrassment and causing them to have to defend themselves from all those question about their weirdness. Harry is looking out for Harry. He's a politician first. He has to get all the Nevada Mormons all worked up, that's his base. If Old Harry really was a devout Mormon, he wouldn't be voting against the Mormon priciples. Old Harry should have been excommunicated from the church a long time ago. And Harry didn't even make a calendar of good-looking mormon men. He only voted for abortion and gays and etc. that the Mormon are so agaisnt. It's obvious that the Nevada Mormons didn't look up Harry's voting record, they just vote for the guy that has a "M" behind his name. The Nevada Mormons will come to the rescue of Harry, because Harry is coming to theirs.

Anonymous said...

The Mormon Church was persecuted for living their religion, then in 1890 they changed their religion. To me that means they are'nt Mormons any more. What do you think of that, Harry Reid, Orrin Hatch, Mark Shurtleff? You have now become the Mob that persecutes the mormons, and it's YOU that have put OUR JOSEPH SMITH in jail!

uncaduff said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
uncaduff said...

I question whether Joseph Smith or Warren Jeffs;would either of them have gone to jail, if they had granted to all the liberty they wanted, and took for themselves.

Carol said...

Please don't compare Joseph Smith and Warren Jeffs. They are not even close to being the same. Joseph Smith's life was founded on righteous principles, and he was not afraid of paying for what he did wrong. Warren Jeffs ran from the law because he knew he was in the wrong, and when Joseph Smith was trying to get away from the mobocrats, he knew that he was innocent. Joseph Smith was getting persecuted and Warren Jeffs is getting prosecuted.

Anonymous said...

(IsraelNN.com) As the Jewish People continue their national return to their ancestral homeland, tailors at the Temple Institute in Jerusalem’s Old City began taking measurements of Kohanim (the priestly tribe designated to run the Temple services) earlier this month in anticipation of an even bigger event -- the dedication of the Third Temple.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/126721

Anonymous said...

Bingo! That's the problem with religion. It enables Peter Pan to avoid facing reality which is life. A spouse, kids, responsibilities are real.

Anonymous said...

on July 27, 2006 the date of Teresa Jeff's marriage to Raymond Jessop, the same day their were more marrages, Warren married the daughter of Merril and Barbara Jessop, and Leroy jessop married the daughter of Wendell and Sally Nielson. Merril also conducted Warrens marriage. so some of the charges are probally from that day.
Annette Jeffs, Barbara Jessop and Sally Nielson may also face charges for allowing their underage daughters to marry older men.
what will these woman use as a defense?

uncaduff said...

carol, do you even know why Joseph was arrested,when he was put in Carthage jail, where he was killed?

Anonymous said...

Uncaduff, why the passive/aggressive attack on Carol?

fttc said...

I'd like to see where uncaduff is going with this one. What is the answer? His comment above threw me off a little as well. I am not remembering this history like he does, or it was a baited question.

Rebeckah said...

It is my understanding that Joseph Smith had been arrested on either bigamy or polygamy charges when he was subsequently lynched. Am I incorrect?

Anonymous said...

Can't anyone notice hear what is going on. These Mormon Boys are just throwing rocks at the Polygamists. They are not even looking at themselves. When ever you point a finger at someone,you have 3 pointing back. This Church is Called FLDS because they have stuck to the Teachings of Joseph Smith. The LDS Church has enclaves around America and they have Businesses that provide for their Families,What is so wrong with that. Gossipers get caught in their own mouth-trap. Just remember Hamans Gallows and what happened, he got hung himself.

Anonymous said...

Harry you sharpened the ax and now you've just laid your head on the block!
Truth Will Prevail!
God is Just!
The time is soon coming when all the
"skeletins are going to be out of your closet"
so to speak

Anonymous said...

Harry Reid:
In the Doctrine and Covenants section 98, verses 5 and 6, (your own religious scripture)it says "In that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting the principle of freedom, maintaining the rights and privileges belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me. Therefore, I, the Lord justify you and your brethren of My Church in befriending that law which is a constitutional law of the land."
Many LDS believe that this justifies them doing away with polygamy. But notice, it says to live the constitutional laws, any law so long as it's constitutional. How can we say polygamy is not constitutional, when many of the old testament prophets lived polygamy. Indians can smoke pot because it's their religion. Polygamy cannot be separated from religion. People that believe in polygamy are always religious. End of story. It is nothing more than a peaceful religious practice. To form a task force to investigate that, in the midst of countless horrendous crimes, is like focusing on adding disinfectant chemicals to a crystal clear spring in the middle of a dirty swamp land. If you were truly trying to do good, you would be spear-heading against prostitution / sleeping around / adultery. This is WAY more common than polygamy, and with polygamy, there is no "under the table" cheating action. All parties know exactly what's going on, and all have agreed and given their consent

Anonymous said...

Joseph Smith was a fraud and a fake.

He also was a Mason and was blatant in incorporating the Masonic rituals into the Mormon temple worship.

Joseph Smith was the devil himself who walked the earth.

Then there was Brigham Young.

uncaduff said...

First I want to offer my sincere apology to Carol, in the event she feels I was attacking her.
I believe attacking a person in a discussion about beliefs or ideas is counter productive at best, and shows a weakness of your own position, or worse, ignorance on your part.
Carol objects to comparing Joseph Smith to Warren Jeffs. My intent was to compare there actions that resulted in there being arrested. I had hoped Carol would respond with why she thought Joseph was arrested, and I could go from there, but I’ll proceed anyway.
Joseph had upset a number of people by engaging in the practice of polygamy, as well as taking other men’s wives and “rearranging families”, proposing marriage to men’s daughters without the families knowledge etc. ( now before you go off on me, these aren’t my accusations, it’s history.) although many people were upset about these things, it wasn’t what got him arrested. That happened when he sent men to the printing office of the Nauvoo expositor, which had been set up for the express purpose of “exposing the actions of the Church authorities“, and destroyed the printing press.
For Americans, many of whom could remember the revolution, this attack on “the free press” was an outrage. This resulted in the arrest of himself and brother Hyrum, and you know the rest.
Warren and those before him, were engaging in similar activities . The repercussions came when people began to feel that there they were being forced in these matters, and were deprived of there civil rights .
Hence my statement: “if Joseph and Warren had allowed others the degree of liberty they wanted for themselves, I wonder if they would have been arrested.”
It seems people will tolerate a lot of crap, but when it comes to taking away there liberty, there is a limit, and they become; a -yea, BITTER.

Anonymous said...

TO ALL MORMONS.Joseph F Smith (JD 20:28 7/7/1878) -
"Some people have supposed that the doctrine of plural marriage was a sort of superfluity or non-essential to the salvation of mankind. In other words, some of the saints have said and believe that a man with one wife, sealed to him by the authority of the Priesthood for time and all eternity, will receive an exaltation as great and glorious, if he is faithful, as he possibly could with more than one. I wish here to enter my solemn protest against this idea for I know it is false…. The marriage of one woman to a man for time and eternity by the sealing power, according to the law of God is a fulfillment of the Celestial law in part… But this is only the beginning of the law, and not the whole of it. Therefore, WHO EVER HAS IMANGINED that he could obtain the fullness of the blessing pertaining to the Celestial Law, by complying with only a portion of its conditions has deceived himself He cannot do it…. I understand the law of Celestial marriage to mean that every man in this church who has the ability to obey and practice it in righteousness, AND WILL NOT, shall be DAMNED. I say I understand it to mean this and nothing less, and I testify in the name of Jesus that it does mean that

Anonymous said...

I believe that the incovience the children had to go through was worth it to save the little girls from a lifetime of forced servitude ie a lifetime of rape in the name of God on so many different levels. I hope they can have a chance to a full life of their chosing and they seize the opportunity that they have been given.
from an exflds member who is fighting to be a free man.

Anonymous said...

Oh please. Harry Reid is not a man of principle. The whole FLDS thing has given Mormons a bad name. Harry Reid is a Mormon, and he is only doing this to save his political career. After the FLDS thing, a lot of people are not going to vote for a Mormon. The best way to prove you aren't a polygamist is to go after the polygamist.

By the way Cat, polygamy may be a crime, but none of these polygamist technically live polygamy. They have affairs, and that is legal because the rest of society wants to make sure they can have sex whenever and with whatever, including same-sex. (children excluded)

Anonymous said...

When is Reid going to go after homosexuals? If it's alright to have two consenting adults of the same gender hook up, then why not 3 or more consenting adults of whatever gender? Also I HAD A QUESTION? Is it illegal to be Gay or a lesbian? Why not have the Judicuary Committee draw up a TASk for against Gays and Lesbians I bet their is Tax evasion Welfare Fraud organized Crime, Wire tapping,extortion ,polygamy, Mob bosses,Monogamy etc.

fttc said...

Uncaduff

I get the point about the civil liberties, but to say JS would not allow them the same that he wished for himself is only supported by those who justified his brutal death. Even the Illinois governor would not tell him he was in the wrong. And that was after JS had turned himself in.

Have you read the Expositor that was printed? In the post-Puritan society that existed in Nauvoo at the time it made any respectable person blush to read it. The stated intention was to expose the Mormons but it was a far cry from that. I have seen a reproduced copy and know why it was declared a public nuisance by the city council. Flora's exagerations are a holiday in comparison. Had the Expositor stuck to the truth I don't believe it would have been a problem for JS as mayor or the city council.

This is way off topic and I was brief enough to be attacked on several fronts, but I couldn't refrain from input.

Carol said...

Thank you, fttc. I haven't read the blog for a few days, so didn't see uncaduff's question.
Uncaduff, I have to say, I didn't feel like you were attacking me, just testing my knowledge of what had happened when Joseph Smith was arrested. I haven't read the Expositor like fttc, but I do know that when someone turns against you, all they can see is the bad side. And I can say, like I said before, Joseph Smith was not afraid to face the law. He knew his beliefs were founded on correct principle and I believe he did the best he knew how. I don't deny he was human and made mistakes, because he did, but I don't believe he had the desire to take anyone's liberty away. I think you know that he said this, when someone asked how he governed the people. " I teach them correct principle, and they govern themselves."
Uncaduff, I believe you are playing the devil's advocate. Am I wrong?

bro B said...

To 8.22

Your words are a true and correct testimoney and understanding.

I would only add that an 'ability' to live it in righteousness requires specific personal worthiness and readiness, or 'spiritual ability and capacity.'

That is were I think a number of people with FLDS heritage go wrong.

Bro B

Anonymous said...

http://judiciary.senate.gov/schedule.cfm

Go here to watch the judiciary senate hearing.

You can download to your computer or watch it on line.

Anonymous said...

8:22, Bro B, etc.:

Go live all the polygamy you can endure. No body cares. But, when you start to throw 12-15 year old girls into the mix, don’t be surprised when the rest of God-fearing America (except for the God-fearing perverts) thinks you are a bunch of perverts.

FLDS: don’t try to come up with some lame, stupid excuse about Texas doctoring up pictures. You know damn well that wj married the youngster. I know you are sick about it too, but you have to accept the actions of your leader. Or throw him out on his ass, which you should have done a long time ago. In Jesus’ time, the would have put rocks on top of him (stoned him).

I really worry about what is coming next. The FLDS, the same-sex-marriage crowd, and our constitution are going to spawn a potent religious Molotov Cocktail. Our constitution guarantees freedom of religion, the FLDS are using that as a defense for marrying 12 year olds, and same-sex marriage is gaining traction and becoming legal in several states.

Some nutcase (prophet) is going to use the same arguments as the FLDS, and will start a male polygamous religion, let’s call it the MaleFLDS (MFLDS). This prophet will write a book (the MaleBOM), will recruit followers (perverts), and will also bring in females to organically grow their population. These females won’t be able to hold the MFLDS priesthood and will only be allowed into Heaven if they have children and teach them the fullness of the MFLDS gospel. And before you know it, they’ll be handing out 12 year old boys for the very faithful older men to marry.

FLDS: You are a cornerstone for the ground-work that will allow this to happen.

LTG

Anonymous said...

Joseph Smith was a man that was bored and tired of his father and their religion. So, he went out and made his own. Sure, it included polygamy. Poor guy probably never had many girls. So, why not make a religion that has them all around you?

Too bad my great great grandpa wasn't bored with Christianity the way it was. He was too busy fighting so that slaves could be free.

But imagine if he WAS bored with his parents rules and life in general. Maybe, just possibly, he could have made a religion that made only people with our last name "holy" and allowing them into heaven and then I could be Queen of the universe right now.

And oh, one more thing...imagine if the world was not based on all these crazy religiona, but was based on LOVE as a general base of life and LOVING the earth and the beings around you and respecting them. And as long as people put out hate because that's what their "religion" says to do, the universe will never be peaceful.

There is a woman named Amma. She is known throught the world. She tours the world and preaches that you can believe in any religion but the basis of ALL religions should be love and peace.

Maybe all people should read about her and bring them back to the reality that religions were based on before worldly men started interpreting it to benefit themselves. LOVE AND KINDNESS is what is going to make the universe peaceful. That is what ALL religions should be and were originally based on.

IITMOC said...

LTG,

I think you may be a little off on this one. I don’t see the flds pushing to get underage marriages legalized. I do see them pushing to get plural marriage decriminalized though.

You are right, many (flds) are shocked at those photos, and are having a hard time accepting that it really happened. I don’t doubt that it did, but I think it was an exception, not the rule.

Time will soon tell if there was anything more than just a marriage vow. I don’t know, but I don’t think they can prosecute a vow only. If there was no physical relations there isn’t a whole lot that can be legally done. Also, if they do somehow go after those who have made a covenant but have never consummated the marriage, that would seem to border on religious persecution.

Here is the way I see it. The flds has made some mistakes and very poor judgement especially in their marriage practices of late. However, to go after the entire flds community as Texas did in their raid was very much overstepped their bounds.

Where there is abuse, I want to see it stopped. At the same time I don't want to see the civil rights of innocent people violated in the process. To burn the haystack to find a needle or two does qualify as persecution and violation of rights.

I just hope the flds priesthood agrees with the flds church in that they will no longer perform underage marriages.

uncaduff said...

Fttc,

Joseph wanted to practice polygamy, which was extremely controversial in ;as you say “post puritanical America”. the Laws , Higbys and others of these Victorian gentlemen were outraged by what they perceived as very un Christian conduct, and wanted to reveal it to the world. If the publishers of the expositor were lying, Joseph and those who were being slandered had other means, under the law, to handle the situation. If they had taken it to court, and proven the slander, it would have been far better politically and ethically for the church than to illegally destroy property and forcefully silence these men.
If the Mayor and City council of any American City were to do the same thing today, you can bet they would be prosecuted to the max!
So, in short, Joseph wanted to live polygamy, William Law wanted to tell the world about it. Joseph wanted the freedom to engage in an unpopular lifestyle, but wasn’t willing to allow William the freedom to speak about it publicly, which he,William, had every right under the law to do. And yes, I have read most of the first and only edition of The Expositor, and although you may be unaware of it there is historical evidence to indicate that the “apostate brethren” weren’t all wrong.
As for Warren and his encroachment upon the freedom others, any further discussion would only be redundant.
I hope you don’t take this response as an attack. I don’t approve of attacking people for there sincere beliefs, in fact I have far more respect for a person who will stand up for what they believe, I only ask the same consideration for myself.

uncaduff said...

Uncaduff, I believe you are playing the devil's advocate. Am I wrong?

7/25/2008 11:10 PM
Delete
Anonymous
Carol,"Playing the Devil's advocate"
is an old saw, that has been used to cut a lot of different logs. would you do me a favor and explain what you mean by it?

Anonymous said...

Hey Uncaduff or any other scholar out there.
Did some of the woman in Josephs time have multiple husbands?


Uncle Roys Boy

Anonymous said...

AUSTIN — Texas authorities on Monday arrested five men from a West Texas polygamist sect on charges ranging from sexual assault of a child to bigamy, an individual close to the investigation has told The Dallas Morning News.
Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott, who announced the indictments against the members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints on Tuesday, is expected to announce the arrests and identify the suspects at a 3:30 p.m. press conference.

bbgae said...

Yes. They were Ray Jessop, Leroy Jessop (Merril's sons) Lloyd Barlow, Allen Keate,and George Emack.

The charges against them have not yet been made public except that as physician of the YFZ Lloyd failed to report child abuse on three counts.

Anonymous said...

for uncle Roys boy, for what its worth.



In Sacred Loneliness
The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith

Journal of the West, Gary Toppin
In Sacred Loneliness

Compton contends that some of the husbands involved in Smith's polyandrous marriages probably knew of their wives' relationship to the Prophet but were assuaged by the honor of a dynastic tie to Smith as well as other blessings he promised, including the prospect of plural wives for themselves.

uncaduff

bro b said...

Dont go hating polygamy.

Abraham was loved of God, and he had many wives, So also Issac and Jacob.

Also Gideon, The parents of Samuel, David and Solomon, just to name the obvious.

Davids conduct with bathsheba is an example of a man doing the wrong thing.
Solomon also went off the deep end.
No matter were you look you will find souls who get things wrong. This is earth, not heaven.

Jesus may or may not have had wives, but he certainly had Mary at his feet and Martha in the kitchen, and he did love these sisters. Perhaps Joseph Smith also loved the wives of other men, in a platonic way on earth, but with the intention that they would become his in the next world. Certainly Catholics belive in this manner of plural marriage, as all nuns seek to be married to Jesus in this life and the next. Budhists also believe in marriage after this life, and polygamy was practiced and taught in most jewish societies up until the thirteenth century.

The FLDs may be a bit kooky to you, and they may have some doctrinal incorrectness, but they appear kooky to you because you dont understand what they believe or why. So dont persecute them and say they are all child molesters because that isnt fair or just, and you'd become no different from a mob or lynching party.

fttc said...

uncaduff

Thanks. I hope you don't feel I have tried to attack you either. I was trying to find out what you believe rather than attacking. I know and have read the debate on whether JS acted lawfully or not. There is as much evidence that the city government had the right to do as they did as there is against it. When the city of Nauvoo was granted its charter by the state it was extremely liberal in its ramifications. I am not inferring that the city was given rights beyond the constitutional right of free speech. The Expositor was more libelous than not. It did not take the principle of plural marriage and expose it. It repeated rumors and proven lies to incite the people against the Mormons. In essence the Laws and Higbees were the Floras and Carolyns of JS day. They are not all wrong, there is some grains of truth in what they tell, but it is told in a way calculated to gain sympathy for themselves and angst for the FLDS.

Besides this let's allow JS to be a little bit human. How many times had he been mobbed and driven from his home? He had been arrested more than 40 times and never once had charges sustained against him. This is also historical. Can we let him be just a little human enough to let something like this paper finally get his goat?

I know JS made mistakes as men are prone to do. In hindsight even he admitted to governor Ford that perhaps it had been a mistake. It is interesting though that he made a statement similar to yours above to the affect that if this paper had started up in any other town in the west it would have been removed by a mob of the people, to which the governor replied that it would have been better to let it happen that way.

I am not challenging your beliefs but do think it in the best interest to have both sides represented. I am still not sure that I understand your belief in regard to this subject. In the former paragraph I support your original idea somewhat about the similarity for problems of the LDS in JS day and the FLDS in warren's day. There is a difference I think needs to be acknowledged however. In JS day there was a general public distaste for the LDS faith. In warren's day the local public had very few people who did not have a lot of respect for the FLDS people and the general public did not know they existed. In a few short years warren changed all of this and brought down upon the people what they are enduring now. The Floras and Carolyns have come and gone since JS and none have gained much traction until warren made it all possible.

uncaduff said...

Fttc,

I appreciate your candor, this kind of exchange of thought, without anger or accusation can be enjoyable and maybe even a little enlightening.
What I believe, briefly, I believe in personal freedom and granting all others the same: I believe free agency means just what it says, not: “you are free to choose to do what your told, or go to hell, or die, or whatever the Dictator says at the time”. I believe “salvation” comes by learning to solve your own life problems, and in taking ownership of your own person. I believe I’m obligated to submit to and take part in civil government, on a local as well as a national basis. I believe in taking part in religious activities, wherein the worship of almighty God, and the promotion of the brotherhood of Man , are the primary agenda, so long as the proprietors of such don’t attempt to take possession of my person.
I don’t recall reading the debate your referring to, but the fact remains that property was destroyed with out due process of law, and if you think about it , I think you’ll have to agree.
I disagree that Joseph was justified, although he may have had some leienance due him under the circumstances, providing the accusations were without merit.

I’m willing to grant Joseph all the humanity he needs, but my original question still remains, would he have been arrested if he had respected the rights of others, even if outraged by there actions, and taken the path pointed out by the rule of law, for redress. And in passing, I would rather not depend on a man with the same frailties as myself, standing between myself and my creator.
I don’t have time to do justice to this response at present, so Ill have to stop .



Submitted in humility
uncaduff

Anonymous said...

The Eldorado Success is reporting on its website that four of the YFZ Ranch men cannot make bail. Only Lloyd Barlow the Doctor was able to get out on bail.

fttc said...

Uncaduff

I too have enjoyed the brief exchange. It sounds as if we agree on more than we disagree. I liked your statement of beliefs.

Anonymous said...

I liked that you submitted in in humility.

No really I did.

But can you guess who I am.

uncaduff said...

street? :D

uncaduff said...

fttc, Don,t get me wrong, I am an apostate....

Anonymous said...

A quote that means a lot to me, something I have had on my fridge for many years is...
"There is only one relationship that matters, and that is your personal relationship to the redeemer and Lord. Let everything else go, but maintain that at all costs, and God will fulfill His purpose through your life."

uncaduff said...

HEAR HEAR!

fttc said...

An apostate by whose definition? The FLDS so corrupted the meaning of apostate that I think from your statement of beliefs that you let them brand you. I know you and I don't agree on the details, but the basics of both our understandings of God and man is very close. And I still hang to the fundamentals of JS teachings. The idea proposed by Anon 9:47 is absolutely on target.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know where Elizabeth Emack is?
She was one of Michael Emacks wives for years?
She wasnt on the ranch, and I would Like to find her.
Thank you

Anonymous said...

Anonymous are you sure Elizabeth Emack was not on the ranch.
The bishop list was a year ago.

Wendell Nielsen list did not have Janet Jeffs Nielsen listed but she was seen in news stories. She was on the ranch.

Anonymous said...

No, she wasnt on the list, or on the ranch. Last time I saw her was in Utah.
She disappeared and Ive been trying to find her ever since.
I kept up with all the hearings, and names, and watched all the interviews, she wasnt there.

Anonymous said...

could she be in Alberta?

Anonymous said...

anonymous

I didnt think of that, possibly?
I just want to know shes alive and okay.
The last id heard she was still with Michael Emack, but realized after the raid on YFZ, she wasnt.

She is a relative. It becomes impossible to know what happens when they want someone to disappear:(
Thanks for your help

Anonymous said...

LATEST NEWS --
Updated 11:45 a.m. Friday, August 1, 2008

The Success has learned that William Sunderland Jessop, 29, died Thursday, July 31, 2008, of unknown causes at the YFZ Ranch. The official cause of death has not been released pending an autopsy but, authorities say they do not suspect foul play. Jessop was the son of YFZ overseer Merril F. Jessop. He is believed to be survived by two wives and at least six children, as well as his parents and numerous brothers and sisters.

Anonymous said...

anonymous 9:47

I like your quote too. Can you tell me where it came from?

Anonymous said...

Hey Fttc,
I found some of your comments kinda interesting about the the" Expositor " . I cant say any of it would make me blush , but hey , times have changed I guess LOL.

What you had was one brand of Mormons , the RLDS using a printing press as a tool too put down another brand of Mormons , the LDS, is hopes of a membership switch from one Mormon prophet to another Mormon prophet . Nothing but a good ol power struggle from two Alfa males looking for a herd to lead if you ask me .

Anyway , see how much of this first and only printing of this news paper makes you blush , LOL

Anonymous said...

Sorry about this Fttc , here's the link I forgot to leave you ,

http://solomonspalding.com/docs/exposit1.htm

Anonymous said...

I am not sure where I found the quote as I have had it for many years, but I did a google search and found it used again, it is part of a quote made by Oswald Chambers.

fttc said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

can anyone here comment on the Willie's death? I am so sad for his family and kids and I cannot find any news anywhere. thanks.

Anonymous said...

LATEST NEWS --
Updated 11:45 a.m. Friday, August 1, 2008

The Success has learned that William Sunderland Jessop, 29, died Thursday, July 31, 2008, of unknown causes at the YFZ Ranch. The official cause of death has not been released pending an autopsy but, authorities say they do not suspect foul play. Jessop was the son of YFZ overseer Merril F. Jessop. He is believed to be survived by two wives and at least six children, as well as his parents and numerous brothers and sisters.

It looks to be difficult to find any news of Willie's death beyond this? This was a week ago and there is literally nothing reported anywhere else. If anyone knows any more news, I am sure it would be appreciated.

Anonymous said...

The Sucess has a story about it in this weeks paper

Angel said...

could someone tell us what it said?

Angel

Anonymous said...

uncaduff,

Texas has all kinds of prophets.
Yisrayl Hawkins, and a pass Texas resident Tony Alamo.

Hawkins is waiting trial for bigamy too. He is a self proclaim prophet who believes he is one of the two witnesses mention in Revelation. He is also is facing charges of breaking child labor laws. There is also an elder who is coming to trial for sex abuse of a child. AKA a stepdaughter who he was planning to "marry".

Tony Alamo has been to jail and now lives in a gated community in Arkansas. He preaches polygany too. He has followers and was a church that started in East Texas. Alamo church is in a small community, like Eldorado, in Arkanssa.


I hear Crossfield lerks in Texas also.

I think the senate judiciary committee could find plenty of cults like the FLDS to come down on, if one looked hard enough.

These cults may look different, but all stink the same.

Anonymous said...

turns out by looking at the Bishops list, William Sutherland had married a girl underage on the YFZ ranch in 2007:(
I am sorry about his death.