FLDS Prophet Warren Jeffs may be serving life in prison, but his followers continue with their work on the YFZ Ranch near Eldorado, Texas where the group's white limestone Temple towers over the town they are building. Polygamy, the practice of plural marriage, appears to be alive and well in the Lone Star State, despite laws to the contrary.
Friday, April 04, 2008
Cops Raid YFZ
I drove by the YFZ awhile ago and the cops had the road blocked. The Eldorado Success reports that they are raiding the place READ HERE
Again, this situation "not being a normal situation", as you put it, is only more of "end justifies the means". This is exactly the kind of mentality which lawmakers were banking on in hopes of pulling off this illegal raid.
As far as the foster care goes, the CPS's own psychiatrist testified that traditional foster care would traumatize these children. The foster care system in Texas is strapped for foster homes and parents right now. How on earth is it feasible to create 416 "non-traditional" foster care families out of thin air?
Face it, this was and is a witch hunt. The AG and also Hildebran are trying to pump up their stats and make names for themselves.
"What do you think about the reassigning of wives and children by the group's leadership over the past few years? What happened to the husbands' rights to raise their children with their wives? What about the childrens' rights to know who their father is? How about the wives being forced into a new marriage with a new husband, who has a the same rights over her that her old one had (including sexual)?
I read that some of these women had been reassigned four and five times. "
Native Texan,
While that might be a valid reason for investigation, that is not why the police raided the compound. That was not on the warrant. It also has not resulted in any kinds of criminal charges. The authorities have not acted on those issues which you described above, so we can hardly use any of those instances as justification for their actions.
The usual standard for removing a child from a home is that of "immediate harm." In a non-political scenario, if an allegation can be substantiated to a degree which shows that the child faces immediate danger, the court will grant temporary custody to the state. If things are "bad" but the child does not face immediate danger, the court will not remove the child, but DCS will investigate and report back to the court.
As a sheriff's deputy, I have been the complaintant in numerous child removals. Almost 100% of mine were meth-related. I fail to see that Texas is using any consistent standard in these removals. It is obvious that the FLDS has a lifestyle that is foreign to almost all Americans and repulsive to many. It is a shame that the rule of law has been unable to triumph over prejudice.
If a raid (made in good faith)brought up other issues, then...oh, wait, I don't know...INVESTIGATE. But to take over 400 kids away from their families is unreal. If you cannot see that, then you are delusional.
There has been so little substance to the legal/criminal criticisms of these people.
The only question is whether people are breaking the law or not. And if there are some pregnant 13-y.o.'s running around, then I'd say someone probably has and should be prosecuted.
[My favorite: "the boys are raised to become perpetrators...". Now wait, you are saying that there are people who share their prejudices with their children and don't impart a rational, logical, insert your thing here outlook on life? Fascinating, really.]
I don't think I'd get along with the FLDS. And they would probably view me as Godless and immoral. But I am able to keep my prejudices separate from my beliefs about the administration of law.
Two things are certain, Texas has just proven to the FLDS that the separatist beliefs of the FLDS are right on the money. The other is that the men of the FLDS should undergo mental health evaluations. Why would any man ever want more than one wife? To those of you are thinking sex, think again. Marrying for the sex is like flying to London to eat the in-flight peanuts. I mean they are good and all, but you can get peanuts anywhere.
Obviously you have never been in an abusive situation. If you ever had, you would know that interviewing children and talking to family members within their own surroundings does not really provide for ANY abuse victim to open up. WHEN I was abused as a child, if you would have asked me if I was or am being abused in my grandfather's house (yes it was my grandfather that abused me) with our without him right next to me, that I would surely have not said ANYTHING about any of the abuse. I would have denied it 200% since I was still in HIS house and assuming (since I was a child) that I would be left behind and then what? Get even more abused for opening my mouth? I agree with the poster that says you're nieve. You keep talking and talking and talking about this military type action that our government has used. Apparently you have not read anything that people that have visited CC have written. People have been followed with guns, stared at, run out of town..and yes all before they moved to YFZ. It is the same group of people that did these things that are at YFZ. Or, at least a portion of the same people, if not all.
I know that as a child of abuse if an army of men came in and scooped me up and took me away--I would be scared. But at the same time hey it's much better than having some 50 or 60 year old man on top of me. Hey, shoot me in the eye a few times. That would even be better.
I believe you have good intentions in what you are saying. It's just that under the circumstances that are KNOWN about the FLDS the state of Texas obviously had reason to go in as they did.
So, yes, we can be concerned about our freedoms. That's why people vote. I don't believe that any of the FLDS people vote. How many prairie dresses have you seen at the polls?
If these people think the US of A is so awful and we are all damned..MOVE AWAY!!! Hey, Jim Jones did.
If a person doesn't use his right to vote and thinks hiding behind huge walls with a guard tower will keep him safe from the law..think again.
If a person in a tight knit commune is an abuser and no one does anything about it....damn them all.
GO TEXAS!!! Save the children! Give them an education to make their own choices and use their own minds to determine WHO, WHEN and WHY they want to marry someone. If parents do their jobs, they should know that the children were raised properly to make the "moral" choices that are taught to them.
Finally, how many men from FLDS showed up for DNA tests?
HA! Yeah just a handful. Funny how they didn't run out to get their tests. Could it be because they are guilty and don't want to get tested because then they will be in trouble?
George Dewey, I was not shocked to find out that you have no knowledge of this group until the recent stories came to light. I was not impressed by your childhood story, as it has absolutely no relevence to this case whatsoever. I have been following this group since they moved to Texas and have been listening to bloggers (key word:listening).
I called Hildebran on the phone and asked for his opinion of the situation a few years ago. He has a phone number and is quite willing to chat with anyone who has concerns. When I spok to him, he had no intentions of breaking this group apart or rushing in. He did have some reasonable concerns, however. He spoke mostly about single-member voting districts, so that the FLDS could not come in and completely take over like they did in Hilldale and Colorado City.
I have looked at your website and I agree with a lot of your opinions. I would like to just encourage you to listen more and spout your opinions less. It is clear to me that you still have very little understanding of the group, you have never seen the compound, and yet you rant on and on and on. I get to the point where I skip to the bottom of your entries because they are like sitting at a dinner table with someone who monopolizes the conversation. Maybe you should start your own thread on the street.
I am not really sure how you can accuse me of monopolizing a conversation, as I often go days without saying anything.
I'm also a little confused how you can agree with me or disagree with me when, by your own admission, you skip through most of my entries.
Out of the two of us, I am not the one ranting. I am simply trying to point out to everyone that if we allow The State to operate outside the boundaries of the law, as they have in this case, it's only a matter of time before our society implodes upon itself.
I may be naive, but at least I can spell and use proper grammar.
I have been able to detach from my personal feelings about this group's lifestyle in order to be able to see the big picture.
I suggest you would be well served in doing the same. Just because you were abused does not mean that every person who has ever been accused of abuse is automatically guilty.
I believe my grammar could be way worse. And I never claimed that I was a writer. But thanks for your input. I never claimed once to have a degree in the English language. And perhaps I made a couple of spelling mistakes. But if that's what you choose to pick out about my post, then more power to you.
I also never claimed that everyone accused of abuse is automatically guilty. If you could please show me where in my post I said that, I would appreciate it.
You stated in your previous post you weren't sure why all of the children had to be hauled out of the the ranch to be interviewed....maybe you should read what you said and not make up what I say and you would understand better.
But once again, you just keep spewing words over and over. You certainly remind me of an uncle of mine that no one can bear to be around for more than 15 minutes because you know everything about everything.
I'm sure you're one of those people, or at least you come across as one, that doesn't just go on a trip. you go on the best trip and no one else can top it.
Again, sorry for my writing skills and my very imperfect grammar. Unlike you I don't believe to know EVERYTHING and have been educated and recieved a Masters Degree in mathematics not English.
Please read your post again and then read my response. I'm sure you were too busy talking while reading my post and that's why you did not either remember what I wrote, or you just chose to guess what I wrote because you know everything already.
Maybe you haven't noticed, but the state of Texas CANCELED their warrant for Dale Evans Barlow. They say it is "No longer active" and are too embarrassed to say exactly when they did that.
Meanwhile custody hearings are scheduled to end June 5th, and Rozita Swinton is going to get to go to the Colorado Democratic State Convention and is out on her own. Her first court appearance has been put off until...um...June 6th. Yeah, that's the ticket. How convenient.
209 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 209 of 209Native Texan,
Again, this situation "not being a normal situation", as you put it, is only more of "end justifies the means". This is exactly the kind of mentality which lawmakers were banking on in hopes of pulling off this illegal raid.
As far as the foster care goes, the CPS's own psychiatrist testified that traditional foster care would traumatize these children. The foster care system in Texas is strapped for foster homes and parents right now. How on earth is it feasible to create 416 "non-traditional" foster care families out of thin air?
Face it, this was and is a witch hunt. The AG and also Hildebran are trying to pump up their stats and make names for themselves.
"What do you think about the reassigning of wives and children by the group's leadership over the past few years? What happened to the husbands' rights to raise their children with their wives? What about the childrens' rights to know who their father is? How about the wives being forced into a new marriage with a new husband, who has a the same rights over her that her old one had (including sexual)?
I read that some of these women had been reassigned four and five times. "
Native Texan,
While that might be a valid reason for investigation, that is not why the police raided the compound. That was not on the warrant. It also has not resulted in any kinds of criminal charges. The authorities have not acted on those issues which you described above, so we can hardly use any of those instances as justification for their actions.
The usual standard for removing a child from a home is that of "immediate harm." In a non-political scenario, if an allegation can be substantiated to a degree which shows that the child faces immediate danger, the court will grant temporary custody to the state. If things are "bad" but the child does not face immediate danger, the court will not remove the child, but DCS will investigate and report back to the court.
As a sheriff's deputy, I have been the complaintant in numerous child removals. Almost 100% of mine were meth-related. I fail to see that Texas is using any consistent standard in these removals. It is obvious that the FLDS has a lifestyle that is foreign to almost all Americans and repulsive to many. It is a shame that the rule of law has been unable to triumph over prejudice.
If a raid (made in good faith)brought up other issues, then...oh, wait, I don't know...INVESTIGATE. But to take over 400 kids away from their families is unreal. If you cannot see that, then you are delusional.
There has been so little substance to the legal/criminal criticisms of these people.
The only question is whether people are breaking the law or not. And if there are some pregnant 13-y.o.'s running around, then I'd say someone probably has and should be prosecuted.
[My favorite: "the boys are raised to become perpetrators...". Now wait, you are saying that there are people who share their prejudices with their children and don't impart a rational, logical, insert your thing here outlook on life? Fascinating, really.]
I don't think I'd get along with the FLDS. And they would probably view me as Godless and immoral. But I am able to keep my prejudices separate from my beliefs about the administration of law.
Two things are certain, Texas has just proven to the FLDS that the separatist beliefs of the FLDS are right on the money. The other is that the men of the FLDS should undergo mental health evaluations. Why would any man ever want more than one wife? To those of you are thinking sex, think again. Marrying for the sex is like flying to London to eat the in-flight peanuts. I mean they are good and all, but you can get peanuts anywhere.
Happily married ex-cop
George,
Obviously you have never been in an abusive situation. If you ever had, you would know that interviewing children and talking to family members within their own surroundings does not really provide for ANY abuse victim to open up. WHEN I was abused as a child, if you would have asked me if I was or am being abused in my grandfather's house (yes it was my grandfather that abused me) with our without him right next to me, that I would surely have not said ANYTHING about any of the abuse. I would have denied it 200% since I was still in HIS house and assuming (since I was a child) that I would be left behind and then what? Get even more abused for opening my mouth? I agree with the poster that says you're nieve. You keep talking and talking and talking about this military type action that our government has used. Apparently you have not read anything that people that have visited CC have written. People have been followed with guns, stared at, run out of town..and yes all before they moved to YFZ. It is the same group of people that did these things that are at YFZ. Or, at least a portion of the same people, if not all.
I know that as a child of abuse if an army of men came in and scooped me up and took me away--I would be scared. But at the same time hey it's much better than having some 50 or 60 year old man on top of me. Hey, shoot me in the eye a few times. That would even be better.
I believe you have good intentions in what you are saying. It's just that under the circumstances that are KNOWN about the FLDS the state of Texas obviously had reason to go in as they did.
So, yes, we can be concerned about our freedoms. That's why people vote. I don't believe that any of the FLDS people vote. How many prairie dresses have you seen at the polls?
If these people think the US of A is so awful and we are all damned..MOVE AWAY!!! Hey, Jim Jones did.
If a person doesn't use his right to vote and thinks hiding behind huge walls with a guard tower will keep him safe from the law..think again.
If a person in a tight knit commune is an abuser and no one does anything about it....damn them all.
GO TEXAS!!! Save the children! Give them an education to make their own choices and use their own minds to determine WHO, WHEN and WHY they want to marry someone. If parents do their jobs, they should know that the children were raised properly to make the "moral" choices that are taught to them.
Finally, how many men from FLDS showed up for DNA tests?
HA! Yeah just a handful. Funny how they didn't run out to get their tests. Could it be because they are guilty and don't want to get tested because then they will be in trouble?
George Dewey,
I was not shocked to find out that you have no knowledge of this group until the recent stories came to light. I was not impressed by your childhood story, as it has absolutely no relevence to this case whatsoever. I have been following this group since they moved to Texas and have been listening to bloggers (key word:listening).
I called Hildebran on the phone and asked for his opinion of the situation a few years ago. He has a phone number and is quite willing to chat with anyone who has concerns. When I spok to him, he had no intentions of breaking this group apart or rushing in. He did have some reasonable concerns, however. He spoke mostly about single-member voting districts, so that the FLDS could not come in and completely take over like they did in Hilldale and Colorado City.
I have looked at your website and I agree with a lot of your opinions. I would like to just encourage you to listen more and spout your opinions less. It is clear to me that you still have very little understanding of the group, you have never seen the compound, and yet you rant on and on and on. I get to the point where I skip to the bottom of your entries because they are like sitting at a dinner table with someone who monopolizes the conversation. Maybe you should start your own thread on the street.
Keep Sweet George.
Adult Bride,
I am not really sure how you can accuse me of monopolizing a conversation, as I often go days without saying anything.
I'm also a little confused how you can agree with me or disagree with me when, by your own admission, you skip through most of my entries.
Out of the two of us, I am not the one ranting. I am simply trying to point out to everyone that if we allow The State to operate outside the boundaries of the law, as they have in this case, it's only a matter of time before our society implodes upon itself.
Amanda,
I may be naive, but at least I can spell and use proper grammar.
I have been able to detach from my personal feelings about this group's lifestyle in order to be able to see the big picture.
I suggest you would be well served in doing the same. Just because you were abused does not mean that every person who has ever been accused of abuse is automatically guilty.
George,
I believe my grammar could be way worse. And I never claimed that I was a writer. But thanks for your input. I never claimed once to have a degree in the English language. And perhaps I made a couple of spelling mistakes. But if that's what you choose to pick out about my post, then more power to you.
I also never claimed that everyone accused of abuse is automatically guilty. If you could please show me where in my post I said that, I would appreciate it.
You stated in your previous post you weren't sure why all of the children had to be hauled out of the the ranch to be interviewed....maybe you should read what you said and not make up what I say and you would understand better.
But once again, you just keep spewing words over and over. You certainly remind me of an uncle of mine that no one can bear to be around for more than 15 minutes because you know everything about everything.
I'm sure you're one of those people, or at least you come across as one, that doesn't just go on a trip. you go on the best trip and no one else can top it.
Again, sorry for my writing skills and my very imperfect grammar. Unlike you I don't believe to know EVERYTHING and have been educated and recieved a Masters Degree in mathematics not English.
Please read your post again and then read my response. I'm sure you were too busy talking while reading my post and that's why you did not either remember what I wrote, or you just chose to guess what I wrote because you know everything already.
Maybe you haven't noticed, but the state of Texas CANCELED their warrant for Dale Evans Barlow. They say it is "No longer active" and are too embarrassed to say exactly when they did that.
Meanwhile custody hearings are scheduled to end June 5th, and Rozita Swinton is going to get to go to the Colorado Democratic State Convention and is out on her own. Her first court appearance has been put off until...um...June 6th. Yeah, that's the ticket. How convenient.
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