Friday, September 28, 2007

The Aftermath

Not really an aftermath from a big storm, but it feels like it. Now we get to hear all about everyone's good intentions and the media will go back to normal and the people who are embarrassed by polygamy will pretend it never happened.
Until the next trail.......
And the next with a new victim and a new crime.....
Do you think people are afraid it will never end, or is this supposed to make it (abuse) stop....???

71 comments:

Dena said...

I think the media and the people were over-interested in this trial because it is a lifestyle and religious belief that is not as common as most.

Trust me, being a spectator of this trial and taking my own personal trip to Hildale and Colorado City, last month, has been more enjoyable to me than being aware of other media stories like Britney Spears, Paris Hilton, etc.

Anonymous said...

How did your trip to Hildale and CC go? Are you plgy? Are there many left and how were you treated? Aside from the abuses most FLDS are good, honest, caring, family oriented people.

Anonymous said...

Does this mean that Val Jessop and his family can return safely?

bbgae said...

WHY would anyone be worried about returning (to Colorado City?) safely. People may stare and spread rumors, and even be downright rude, but if anyone purchases property from Mr. Wisan, and /or moves back into town by other legal means I fell pretty confident in saying they will be safe.

Or, were you being sarcastic?

Anonymous said...

OMG! Everybody acts like ALL the FLDS people abuse their kids! Why dont we just say that because a chinese man shot those people at Virginia Tech School all chinese people are going to be killers too, or that all Mexicans are illegal just because some of them are. Its crap.

Anonymous said...

Those who have left on their own, or were asked to leave.. and go back for what ever reason...curiosity..to collect on a dare..whatever...to try to see family members who have nothing more to do with them...etc... just make an ASS out of their selves.

As far as being safe ?? there is nothing to worry about except their own feelings of guilt..betrayal..stupidity...
what ever.. but there is nothing to fear as far as physical safety..thats Crap.. and only brought on by the Damn Media !! and ex-members that have swallowed the Crap that non-members and bitter enemies have fed them !!

Anonymous said...

Wouldn't Laurene has alot to worry about? Look at what she has said and done!! It is still all over the internet.

Anonymous said...

She would be okay if Val still wasn't spreading crap about her.
Yes, I know which Laurene you are talking about. Why the H..L is he betraying her behind her back, this is crazy.

bbgae said...

It doesn't matter what Laurene has done. She has nothing to worry about aside from public shunning and rudeness- maybe a little vandalism (like when the monument rock in Cottonwood Park was defaced) but she can report that.

And what about Ellissa? What if she gets the land she has asked for after the court procedures have come to final completion? IF there was anything to worry about, she would have a whole lot more to worry about for putting the 'prophet' in jail than Laurene would.

What about the people that have been living in Colorado City since the 1980's as apostates? What about the people that have left and then returned? There hasn't been any violence toward them. Chill people!

Anonymous said...

bbgae

Are you Joan of Arc :)? Are you Flora? You sound like her.

Anonymous said...

Seriously, are we so unintelligent that we have to call people names now? Grow up people, and grow some brains while you're at it. This sounds like a grade-school argument instead of intelligent adults!

Anonymous said...

There is nothing but pride and honor in being called Joan of Arc and Flora. She should be proud.

Anonymous said...

Well have anymore apostate's tractors been blown up lately in the Creek?

bbgae said...

7:42-
Arson? On a tractor? Do tell.....

8:14-
Joan of Arc. Thank you! :D

bbgae said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

So, what has happened to Laurene? All media for awhile and then nothing. I suspect she is doing well and has settled down to a happy life.

Dena said...

My family and I visited CC and Hildale in the beginning of August. They are both beautiful little towns. I think we were safe, but we were being followed and that sort of freaked us out. This one car just lingered behind us until we were about 3 miles or so out of town.

No, I am not a polygamist, but my husband is a freelance writer and we curious to see what the basis was for the "Big Love" show. We love that show!

I love to take in people's different lifestyles and just really study them. I personally, find it very interesting and would love to learn more about the polygamist lifestyle, but I am sure it is not what it is all cracked up to be as shown on television.

We wanted to visit the Merry Wives Cafe, we were hungry! But since the people outside of the restaurant (the one who was following us) did not look happy with our presence, we continued driving through to the Pipe Springs Monument and toured through Moccassin which my daughter really enjoyed.

I love this blog and I hope I do not offend anyone by reading your entries.

Anonymous said...

Why would reading a public blog be offensive to some? Why not just walk up to the people you see and ask them questions? What would the people of the twin towns do if you were to get out of your car with your family and walk into that restaurant? Why follow you out of town?

They seem to be embrasing anger instead of living proud.

Anonymous said...

Dena, you should have stopped at the Merry Wives. From what I understand it is owned and operated by the Centennial Park group. People from C.C. would have had no business following you there and the people from Centennial definitely would have let you eat there.

Dena said...

I have read reviews that the Merry Wives Cafe has some delicious food. Next time I am around that area, I will make sure to stop in...hopefully there will be no one following us... :0)

We had heard from the tour guide at Pipe Springs that people would run you out of the towns if you did not belong there, so I think that put a little fear in our driving tour through the twin cities. That is why we just kept driving after we toured around a little on the off streets. We did not want to cause any problems and I know thins must be hard with all the unwanted media attention surrounding the Jeffs trial.

Has that commotion stopped now, since the trial is over or is it gearing up again with the new trial on the way?

I do think the twin cities are just beautiful! With those awesome rock and mountain formations as a background, it is just breath-taking! I would love to wake up every morning and see God's beauty outside my window!

The Centennial Park group? Who are they? Are they different from the FLDS?

Thanks for responding to me. :0)

bbgae said...

Dena-
I completely agree with the above post. You should have stopped at the Merry Wives. The people from Centennial would have welcomed you.

I am not offended at all that you read the posts here. As far as I am concerned you are welcome. Feel free to chat or ask questions.

Dena said...

bbgae:

I will definitely stop next time around, no doubt about that! Next summer we will be going through that area again. :0)

Thanks for welcoming me!

I am not sure of what to ask right now, but I love chatting! :0)

I am assuming, by what I have read, that most of the people on this site have been run out of the twin cities and live elsewhere, am I correct?

fttc said...

I wasn't run out per se but did leave because I wasn't interested in the program being run by the present leadership. I feel they departed from the fundamentals that I was raised up to.

Anonymous said...

Dena
I still live here in Colorado City. The Centennial Park group broke off from the main FLDS group several years ago but still live here among us and set up a lovely community just over the hill called Berry Knoll.
I agree with fttc's statement about the leadership's departure from complete truth, and the standards I was raised to in my youth. In doing this they have used different tactics to get people to believe that everything is okay and right, which has worked with some or many. But it is their choice what they believe and what they do.
Yet there are many lovely people here, if you shop at our stores as if nothing is wrong and don't act suspicious, or like you are a reporter (they are such a nuisance to say the least), or drive around looking at things like the FBI do regularly (this is probably why you got followed, checking out who you are - but they won't hurt you, they just like to know who everybody is), you will find a very pleasant group of people here. We are for the most part just normal people, there are all sorts of people in every town and we are no exception.
The media has painted a somewhat bizarre picture of us that I suppose will never be able to be undone.

Besides the Merry Wives Cafe, there is the Candy Shoppe, and some fast food places you can eat at also.

Tmuf

Anonymous said...

Hello,
I recently visited the southern Utah/Northern Arizona area. I thought it was very nice and would be interested in buying a small house or some land in the area. With all of the coming and going in Colorado City/Hildale are any of you aware of houses/lots/land for sale? It would seem to me that with the lack of industry and resources in that area, property prices should not be too high.

Sammy

Anonymous said...

Oh,sometimes you are outright followed, or they keep tabs from afar.

But they have their lookouts, with their little cell phones glued to their ears.

Sometimes it can be comical and sometimes it is spooky.

It just depends on the day and who is out and about.

What is this about Wyler getting shot at? The news report said the shortcreek police called it backfiring from a vehicle.

Guns in Shortcreek, I thought that was against Uncle Warren's teachings.

bbgae said...

Dena-
I was not run out of town. No vehicle followed me around to make sure I left, and no one evicted me and my family.
My husband and I had become unhappy with the religion for years and had been doing what we thought we should and many things the FLDS leadership did not like. We probably would have been asked to leave town sooner than we were if they had known half the things we were doing. It wasn't anything bad, we were just doing things normal people did- like watching R rated movies and using birth control.
The FLDS leader found out about it and sent some men to the house to ask my husband if what they had heard was true. My husband answered them that it was and they asked him to leave town as soon as possible because it was clear we no longer wanted to be a part of 'the people'. I was gone to work at the time but he told me about it when I returned.
It took us nearly a month to find an apartment, but no one bothered us that whole time and no one bothered us when we left.
It has been almost three years since then and I have been back into to town three times. Of those three, only once did the natives stare and keep track of where I was, how long I stayed, who I talked to etc.

Sammy:
i do not know of any property, but i do not go through town often. The person you need to contact is Bruce Wisan.

Anonymous said...

I drove my wife and children through town once, and we saw all the sights (including perhaps the world's only drive-through zoo), and we weren't bothered at all or followed.

The only odd things we saw were the VERY young boys driving tractors on the streets, and ATV's with about six more riders than they were designed for.

The ice cream and the squeaky cheese were most delicious.

Dena said...

I think every religion and following has those members who are extreme and have a sense of Hilter in them. I am a non-denominational Christian and I had the pleasure of having a Hilter kind of leadership within our church, who also happened to be my mother. Her dictatorship-role made/makes her the biggest hypocrite ever and she will be judged accordingly in the end. When I hear excerpts of the Warren Jeffs devotional on television or read them online, I can hear and see my mother saying those same words.

I know how it feels for those who left the area and had to leave their siblings behind. When I left my house (rather, I was kicked out after being beaten up by my mother), I had to stop the contact with my siblings. I only saw my sister two times after I left, before she passed away.

Things got a little better once my daughter was born and my mother came back in my life for a bit, but she tried to take my daughter away from me and barricaded herself in a bedroom of the house with my baby on Christmas morning and that was the final straw. My husband got our daughter and we left and never turned back. Because of this, she has kept my brother away from me and I have not seen him in 8 1/2 years.

This was done all in the name of RELIGION.

I am now a firm believer of relationship not religion and it has taken the bitterness away.

Dena said...

4:10 PM:

My best friend and I are already planning our trip out there again next summer. We spent a lot of time going through and around that area, or close to it, when we are in Vegas, going to Yellowstone and Lake Powell.

I could kick myself in the rear for not stopping last time...it was just the fear that sank it...

Hopefully, the media-hype will be calmed down by then and people will be out and open around the towns. :0)

Dena said...

bbgae:

Did you venture far away from the area or did you stay close?

How did they find out about you watching R-rated movies and you using birth control? Wow! I guess things are not private in the littlier towns.

It is good to hear that they did not harass you to leave, but rather just asked you to leave.

Did you leave a lot of family behind? If so, do you still have contact with them or should I say, allowed to have contact with them?

-Dena

Anonymous said...

Austin, Texas newspaper interviews Randy Mankin


This is scary news, that FLDS continues to build despite the conviction of Warren Jeffs. A walled compound closed off from outside world, where persons such as Elissa Wall could be kept without any means of escape. The article mentions water & sewer service that could support 3000 residents at YFZ.

The population of Schleicher County was around 2000 in last census. This means FLDS would become majority population in county, settting up possible future conflict with native Texans for political control. This would not affect Eldorado, Texas government as no part of YFZ lies in city limits, so Texans would retain control over that city gov't. and city police force.

But the FLDS could take control by out voting Texans, the county government, the sheriffs dept and school board which are elected countywide.

And speaking of escape, IMO officals in Eldorado, TX need to educate residents on how to deal with an escaping woman, girl, or teenaged boy. This now becomes a Texas problem as well as Utah/Arizona problem

Interesting that this weeks Eldorado Success newspaper has article about book written about escaping FLDS.

Eldorado Success

This is scary because sometime in future FLDS & authorities in Texas will clash on polygamy, sex abuse. Scary because in Texas closed compounds controlled by abusive cults tend to become violent standoffs like Waco. Eventually LE must act, if FLDS backs down and allows LE to do it's job, then all is good. If the resist then it's David Koresh and Waco again.

IMO local officals like Sheriff Doran & Eldorado PD have done excellent job in preventing clashes & keeping peace between native Texans and FLDS

Anonymous said...

I promise you that those who followed you did it out of precaution and fear that YOU might be trying to hurt THEM.
The media has been very dishonest and has made well intentioned people seem or even feel extreme.

There are alot of little children around town, and because of the media, there is a great and legitimate concern that little girls will be kidnapped by well intentioned but misinformed people.

You have nothing to fear, except fear.


Vote RON PAUL!
His view is Polygamy should not be illegal, but rape, and child abuse is. Lets get these things seperated so good people are not lumped together with bad, solely on thier religious marriage practices.

Anonymous said...

Waco was a standoff BECAUSE of fear. Don't let fear dictate what your brain tells you is just and kind.

9:38- That "outvoting" fear logic is exactly what caused the bloodbath in Missouri, Illinois, and the Utah war. It is STUPID. But it sure sells papers!

bbgae said...

Dena-

I live within a day's Colorado City.

It was not just birth control and R- rated movies that we were asked to leave town for. There was something else as well, but that is as much as I feel comfortable discussing online right now. My sister was having a hard time and I confided in her my sins so she could learn form them and not make the same mistakes I had made. Unfortunately, she could not make up her mind about staying in the religion or leaving and flipped back and forth. On one of her 'repenting' cycles, she told the bishop about me. He had told her she could not go back to her husband and children and truly repent and be forgiven unless she told them EVERYTHING about herself and EVERYTHING she knew about anyone else.
I knew at the time I told her there was a 90% chance she would tell on my husband and I, but I figured it was worth taking the risk for two reasons: 1- If she learned from it, it would be worth it even if she told, because then she would not have to go through what I had gone through, and 2- we were already planning on leaving town on our own anyway but my husband was dragging his feet about it and I was sick to death of the deception we were living and just wanted to be gone. I figured a little push in the right direction couldn't hurt if it came to that.

I have seven siblings and their families, my father and mother numerous aunts, cousins and friends that all still live in Colorado City. I have not spoken with or seen the majority of them since I left. I have had three or four phone conversations with my parents all brief and painful. I met with my father and Mother for five minutes once, and my mother and little brother for five minutes on a different occasion. Other than that, there is no contact.
I also have two sisters who are out (the sister who told on me is one of them, and I have forgiven her because I knew the risks when I told her and accept the responsibility- we are actually quite close)and another sister. We are all in contact regularly, and, believe me, that really, really helps. I have one Aunt whom I am close to as well and several other aunts and uncles who I do not know at all and have not had much contact with my entire life who are also 'out'.

I just recently had a baby- last year. At the time, my parents decided that, in their own words, "because a woman comes close to death when she gives birth, my sins were forgiven." Kind of a twisted form of blood atonement, and entirely their own weird little take on things. I can guarantee there is nothing like that in any FLDS teachings. I was hard put not to laugh out loud until after the conversation was over. My parents have always been weird like that. my honest opinion on this is they just wanted to see their new grandchild and needed some excuse in their own minds to take away the guilt of seeing and apostate when they knew they were not supposed to. So I forgave them the weirdness.

fttc said...

BB

Sorry to jump between you and Dena but isn't it unbelieveable how far they will go beyond rationality to do what they want? I am glad to see the weirdness resulting in something good of course.

bbgae said...

fttc-
I don't mind you jumping in at all.

Yes, it is unbelievable. I am so glad I am not there any longer.

Anonymous said...

I think there are more "walls" in Shortcreek than are at the YFZ in Texas.

The only "walls" are around the temple and the other building.

Last time I checked the ranch was fenced with barbed wire that is patroled.

Wall's of the mind.

Anonymous said...

I met her in her fathers living room, having never seen her before in my life, to me she was an angel sent from heaven to become a part of my soul. I knew only a few hours before that I had the privilege and opportunity to become this angel’s husband, and in only one hour I would kiss for the first time in my life, the girl of my dreams, and a queen of my kingdom. She rode with me for a few minutes, and I asked her point blank, “Will you marry me?” and I remember the look on her face, as she stopped beaming from ear to ear to pull a quizzical look down to her chin. “Of course”, she said, having only seen me once before, and knowing me less than the man on the moon. She married me that day not because I was the one she diligently searched for, not because I swept her off her feet, no. She married me because God told her I was to be her husband, and she had no doubt whatsoever that He was right. Her wonderful father and mothers taught her the truth as they knew, and loved it, that God speaks through the Prophet. …

As I held the little warm pink fluff of quilt in my arms, the weight almost nothing, I could not ever imagine imagining the awesome deep feelings this tiny, sweet smelling, micro human now gives to me. Her tiny fingers made a fist that barely reaches around my finger, her tiny nose, her wrinkled lips, her whole being so small that I did not even realize it was possible. I am now a father of a little girl. O LORD, how sweet and wonderful is the mother of this little one! How I cherish her and love her as no man has ever loved his soul! She has given me another me. I pledge my LIFE to protect and bless this little one; NO ONE can hurt her while I am alive! ...

Her chubby cheeks have disappeared into a golden ray of beauty. She now glides down the halls she once waddled. Her shining, radiant, heavenly hair, her unpainted and un-pierced face, her royal dress and pretty shoes make me never notice anything but her perfections. Someday she shall be a Queen to someone as her mother is to me! O LORD, help her see in me what my Queen saw in her father. Help her know that I know that You do speak from the heavens. One man whom I trust with my soul, I shall trust him to speak for You in my princess’s eternal life as he has done for me. You will not let me down! ...

How can it be? The most humble and kind man alive is sitting now in a lonely prison cell. His crime? It says in the paper awful things, things that are beyond the realm of possibility. A girl has accused him of rape! What did he do? He officiated in her marriage? He counseled her to stay married? The devil is alive and well, operating with the face of government, oppressing heaven on earth in the name of law. Thy Will, O God, not ours be done… Come quick.

Anonymous said...

Your devil is in a cell, shed of the sheeps clothing. You were deceived yet you will believe a lie. Lies, all lies, what will your children think of you now.
Show them their options, some you gave away like cattle. You have a chance to rescue what is left. Move on and love what you have left. You are the author of your misery or salvation, not another.
God still loves you regardless, no man is a god. You have a choice LoL.

Anonymous said...

As to Warren Jeffs this bit from the Book of Mormon applies to Warren Jeffs and the FLDS church:

2nd Nephi chapter 28

9 Yea, and there shall be many which shall teach after this manner, false and vain and foolish doctrines, and shall be puffed up in their hearts, and shall seek deep to hide their counsels from the Lord; and their works shall be in the dark.
10 And the blood of the saints shall cry from the ground against them.
11 Yea, they have all gone out of the away; they have become bcorrupted.
12 Because of pride, and because of false teachers, and false doctrine, their churches have become corrupted, and their churches are lifted up; because of pride they are puffed up.

Bible & Book of Mormon Online



IMO Warren Jeffs is a false teacher, with false doctrine that has caused the FLDS to become the above mention corrupted church. Religion used as a cover for criminal acts of Warren Jeffs, convicted by a jury in open court.

Anonymous said...

To the anon who posted this: "I think there are more "walls" in Shortcreek than are at the YFZ in Texas.

The only "walls" are around the temple and the other building.

Last time I checked the ranch was fenced with barbed wire that is patroled.

Wall's of the mind."

Yes Warren Jeffs has created wall's of the mind, ruling thru fear and threat.

Yes patrolled barbwire fences are as effective as any solid wall. Patrolled to prevent the flow of ideas in and those who wish to leave held inside. Yes patrolled barbwire fences are found around the evil dictorships of the world to maintain conrtol of those held inside. A patrolled barbwire fence is a wall, where one can see freedom they can't reach beyond that wall of wire and armed men.

bbgae said...

5:59-
That was beautiful. I do not agree with all of it but it was still beautiful. I am glad you are happy with your life.

Anonymous said...

5:59 needs to realize that getting married is more than the romantic picture he tried to portray. It is "for better or WORSE". Can he handle it when teenage children challenge his parental authority? Is he willing to love his wife when she is metabolically unstable and "not sweet"?

Anonymous said...

5:59, would your life have been so "heavenly" if your wife had not wanted to marry you? You describe the wonderful experience you have had in an arranged marriage, and many of them have been wonderful, mine included. I don’t think the arranged part of the marriages is why Warren is in jail, it is the UNDERAGE part of his arranged marriages that is causing the problems.

I agree with bbgae, very well and beautifully written, yet I don't agree with the end.

6:14,
More important than what you just pointed out is if he is OK with his daughter being forced to marry at age 14 to someone she does not want to marry. Also, if he truly loves his daughter, would he keep her in that arranged marriage when she wants out?

btw 5:59, when you tell the Lord to "come quick" and do His will, is that the Lord's will or your will you're wanting done. How do you know that the current events aren't the Lord's will?

IITMOC

Anonymous said...

I also married a man I hardly knew existed before our wedding day, and now have a wonderful family that I am so proud of. My religion is still very dear to me. However what so many people are now doing in the name of religion is ridiculous and certainly not my idea of the way our God would want his people to live.
I think the golden rule should be lived by everyone every day.
Is it?
Some call me an apostate, but I am far from that. I have simply learned to judge what I see others do and hopefully not fall into the same snare, but still do as I know is true and right.
God will be my final judge. Not some man here on earth, who is fighting for more power and more control while pushing people around!
We have had some fine leaders in the past. Now I don't see any. I think we need to find our own way--with the help of a caring and kind Heavenly Father. And we certainly do need His help.

Anonymous said...

5:59:

While your love may sound noble
and your life fulfilled......

Love maybe pure and righteous
but it's also cheap
it can be both achieved and tossed away at will

while freedom is powerful and difficult to achieve
it requires diligence, fortitude and respect

fools kill for love
brave men die for freedom

freedom is willed by god himself
without freedom love is helpless and even benign

She may be a as beautiful as you claim
but became yours out of the disrespect for her own freedom

by marrying her
you disrespected her
you don't deserve her

....sorry dude

keep sweet eldorado
stg

PS: If things are as you say
I still respect you for doing everything else right by her

Anonymous said...

I doubt 5:59 is still married. He has the style of "CTR" that used to post here a while back, and CTR has admitted to some infraction that cost him his family. If this is true, why try to paint a beautiful picture of being married and not telling us about the walking away from the family. Let's tell both sides of the story.

bbgae said...

5:59-
What you described is the FLDS dream. It is what we were taught was the ultimate goal in life. It was what we all wanted. And we all (or most of us) waited and worked and prayed and sacrificed for.

Now, allow me to tell you what happens when everyone has good intentions and does what they think and feel is right and somehow, though no one's fault things go awry and the price has to be paid by someone.

There once was a girl born of a good family who was good, obedient and prayerful. She loved her prophet, and yearned above all things to become a mother in Zion as the wife of a good priesthood man. But this girl was also mortal and she beheld one day a boy who was good and kind and perfect. Now, the good girl knows she is to have no contact or even thoughts about this boy and every time she thinks of him pushes the thought aside and thinks of her prophet instead. She wants to be good and do what is right. But, somehow, no matter how hard she fights it, the girl finally has to admit she loves the boy. Her only hope is to be good enough that maybe, someday if it is the Lord's will, she may be given to the boy as his eternal wife.

But time wears on and the good girl is weak. She knows in her heart if the boy would only ask it of her she would leave with him forever. Her parents are suspicious and watch her and guard her in the name of protecting her and her salvation. Finally, when she can not take it any more, she asks her Father how to stop loving someone. Her father asks who she wants to stop loving, and the good girl tells him she wants to stop loving the boy so she can give herself to her husband- whomever he might be.

The good girl's father uses her confession and plea for help as a weapon against the boy, taking the matter before the prophet. The girl's father pleads and pleads with the prophet to marry his daughter off soon for he fears she will be lost.

So, the prophet sends a man over for the good girl. A man who is well known by the family for he is also married to her sister. The family knows he has been cruel to the sister- starving her into obedience when she was obedient already in the name of priesthood, yet they hope he has changed. He has been kind to the sister in recent years. Maybe he will be kind to the girl, too.

The good girl marries the man, with the glory of heaven in her mind's eye, and when at the end of the ceremony she turns her head away from his kiss, she is greeted with laughter for her pure and innocent ways. The man grasps the good girl's face in both his hands so she cannot turn away from his kiss. The audience looks on happily as they seal their vows with this kiss. After all, the good girl said the words "of my own free will and choice," didn't she? It must be true. She gave up the boy to do what was right, didn't she? This must be what she wanted.

Two weeks into the marriage, the good girl begins to see what her life as part of this family will be like. Her husband has forced her to drink alcohol in the name of priesthood so he can have relations with her and then because he claims she was not a virgin set out to the prophet's first man. The girl knows she was a good girl and did nothing wrong. She has every faith the prophet's man will feel the spirit of truth and tell the husband to love the girl and everything will be ok. But the husband comes home telling the girl she must stay living in his house but not as a wife, as a daughter.

The good girl is hurt and confused, but she still knows she has done nothing wrong and she stays in the man's house, enduring the hurt and humiliation of being his 'daughter' when she knows she is really still his wife. The sister is jealous of the good girl and she runs to the man with false tales bout her. The man, in an effort to save his lost bride punishes the girl severely without stopping to consider her innocence. To him, all the evidence is against her. How could she be innocent?

First the good girl denies every false tale of sin. And she is punished. Then, as the tales and punishments keep coming she admits to the them in an effort to find some reprieve. And she is punished. Next, the girl flees to her gentile aunt's house because she feels her hope of salvation is lost. If the man says she is bad, maybe she really is bad and maybe she should go. But the man comes after the girl and takes her to the prophet's man.

"Why did you leave?" the prophet's man asks her sadly. "If you are innocent, then you still belong to the man."
"Why did you not believe me when I told you I was innocent the first time?" the girl asks back. She is answered with SILENCE.

The girl is now a wife again, and she does everything to obey the man. The man refuses to go near her because he says she is not worthy to be a mother. But the girl is sweet and just smiles. The sister had many tasks for the girl to do, and the girl just does them, and smiles. If I must work here for the rest of my life and serve my sister and the man and never have children of my own, I will be happy, thinks the girl, so long as they leave me alone and never punish me again.

The man leaves for work, promising the girl he will beat her with a stick as he had made her watch while he beat his children with that same stick, if the sister has anything bad to say about the girl when he returns.

The girl is not worried. She does everything the sister tells her to do and she is happy. But the sister is not happy and she tells the girl she is sick of playing games with her and promises to tell the husband when he returns how bad the girl has been.

The girl knows if she stays she will be beaten. She knows this is not right, even if the man says it is his priesthood duty to do it to save her. The girl leaves and returns to her father's house.

The girls' father talks to the prophet's man who tells the girl she has broken her covenants. There will be no permanent place for her in heaven now, no matter how good a life she lives.

The girl is told she must repent and she asks to go to Canada for her repentance and re-baptism. In Canada, the girl learns that because she was married to the man she MUST return to him as his wife. She belongs to him for all eternity. However, the girl remembers the man telling her he did not want her any more if she was going to be so bad and disobedient. The girl tell the bishop. The bishop tells the prophet's man and the girl is told she will not have to go back to the man if HE does not want HER.

Now, 5:59 where is you fairy tale?

Anonymous said...

I'm sure this is an ignorant question to those of you who are FLDS, but as someone who is not, and knows absolutely nothing about the practices/traditions/etc., is it common for a wife to be made a "daughter" or "sister"? Can or would this be done to protect the family if they were living outside of a traditional FLDS community (or is it done only as punishment)? And, to what lengths does a family go when they are living on the outside to protect themselves?

I would like to think I am a friend of a FLDS young lady but am not sure how meaningful that friendship can be when #1: I am a born again Christain and #2: I feel like she's hiding the truth (maybe to protect herself/her family). I wish she could be honest enough with me to tell me the truth because it wouldn't make me think any less of her at all and I would never do anything to endanger her or her family. Although our religious beliefs definitely do not coincide, I think she is a dear sweet person and couldn't love her anymore. I just wish I understood her better so there were not perceived lies in our friendship.

Anonymous said...

I'm not sure what you mean by being made a daughter or sister. We are all both, except where there is only one child in the family, and will be forever.

Who knows to what lengths one might go to protect herself. We are on the front page of the papers and on TV every day. There are many people who hate us and wish to see us destroyed. It is so difficult to know whom to trust especially now more than ever since many of our own people have lost their way.

Anonymous said...

What I mean by "being made a daughter or sister" is that she identifies herself as the daughter of the older gentleman she lives with and sister of the younger man. It could be that she is exactly what she says she is, but for some reason it just doesn't seem like it pieces together. She's definitely old enough she could be married (21) whether FLDS or not. And, in all honesty, I'm not sure that it really matters. If I found out she was married/sealed whatever to one of them it wouldn't change my opinion of her (I actually like all three of them). I'm not sure why I even care, except that I'd like to have a face value and honest relationship with her. I know she definitely withholds the truth from me (or twists it) ~ I've caught her doing that when we talked about her "father" being married to only one person (yes married to one but "sealed" to others [she later confessed]. I don't blame her, I know she doesn't want to be harrassed or hurt and she wants to protect herself and her family. I just wish above all things we could be fully honest with each other. I'd never try to "convert" her or preach at her ~ I think she's gotten enough of that from the rest of the world and I know I wouldn't tell her anything she hasn't heard by people on the outside or from her own sister who 'left the religion' as she says it.

I have to say that I'm really grateful I met her because I had a lot of preconceived notions about what being FLDS meant ~ mainly due to TV documenatries I have seen on PBS and CNN. I used to think the women were 'slaves' and felt so sorry for them. After knowing her I know that some may be, but she is anything but. She is treated well and is very happy. She's confident and strong ~ not like what the media projects at all. The only thing I do know is that she is reluctant to talk about anything FLDS and I wish she weren't.

Thanks 10:12 for your response and thanks to whoever else responds to this post.

bbgae said...

7:43 &11:24-
Maybe you should tell the girl exactly what you told us. You seem like a good person. Maybe she will trust you if you work at it in little pieces so as not to startle her.

Is your question about being made a daughter or a sister as a punishment because of the story I told in my other post? If so, let me tell you that is the only instance I have ever known of where something like that has happened. It is not common in the FLDS at all.

Anonymous said...

7:43

Your friendship will only end with sorrow. She will feel guilt for associating with you and your world. She will go back, no matter how much she values your friendship. In the end she will be convinced you are the enemy and your pain will be great, she will claim you betrayed her trust. Yet, you will still love her while she has forgotten you.

Anonymous said...

All stories don't end the same.
I have many friends who believe differently than I do. There's no reason why that shouldn't be the case.

I think possibly the girl in question is just being cautious. She may just need some time to get to know and trust you.
Be patient and understanding. Prove to her that you can be trusted.
Have you known that family long?

Anonymous said...

The family moved here about a year and a half ago. From what I know, they will be staying another six months or so. I didn't really get to know the gal until about a year ago.

I'm about five years older than she, but we have similar lifestyles (at least from what appears on the outside). We both are home most of the day while the men in our lives are working; we both do all the shopping, cleaning, cooking, etc. She has no children, but I have one and she seems to be really fond of her. We go shopping together a lot of the times (even just for groceries). I'm not a big spender and don't buy a lot. I'm also not a flamboyant person - I'm pretty modest and reserved compared to the rest of the world. We usually eat together two or three days a week too - sometimes we'll go out to eat and sometimes we just eat each other's leftovers. Her father and brother both know that we spend a lot of time together and don't have an issue with it. We've talked about a lot of things - gradually - over the past year. I've even been able to tell her that it wouldn't matter to me if she was married, running, you name it, that I would like her just the same. I've always been careful to not offend her and not broach the subject of the FLDS too much. I let her tell me what she wants to tell me, sometimes ask a few questions, but generally try to keep it really simple. She has told me a little about why she, her father, and brother left, where her mother is (at least supposedly) and her relationship to the big names in the FLDS church. She obviously trusts me some, I just don't think it's entirely.

When the family eventually moves away, I figure I'll probably never hear more from her ever again. It breaks my heart because she's the closest thing to a best friend or a sister I've ever had (I grew up in a small family so no sisters and also have never really gotten along that well with girls - most are SO mean!). What do you all think I should expect from her? Why would she not tell the truth or should I assume she is? And yes BBGAE, my question was sparked by your post - it made me wonder if it was ok to present yourself as a daughter/sister if you were not. Should I assume she's going to just walk out of my life when they leave? I'd like to prepare myself and if I'm never going to see her again then I'd also like to make sure I have the opportunity to give her the best going away present ever when that day comes. I also want to make sure I leave nothing unsaid and I've always been careful to never say too much. And, just to clarify, I really did mean it when I said I wasn't going to preach at her. I just want to make sure she knows that I'm always here if she ever needs me and that I truly treasure her regardless of what is true about her.

By the way - I'm glad I found you all here because I've learned so much that I was afraid to ask - so thanks!

bbgae said...

5:29-
It sounds to me like you have everything down, you are just experiencing a little anxiety from all the emotions you have been keeping bottled up to protect your friend. You are patient with her. You try to understand her, even if you don't believe. You don't push her.

From what I have heard, I think you'll do fine.

The only instance I know of where a woman was forced to portray herself as a 'sister' or a 'daughter' as a punishment was in my story. There is a possibility she is masquerading as such to protect the public from the knowledge of a plural relationship.

But that doesn't really matter, does it?

I understand that you want to help her if she needs it, but what if she is perfectly happy as she is? You cannot get her to do anything else than what she thinks she needs to do. And if you try, it will only hurt you both.

As for whether or not you will see her again after the family moves, why don't you ask her? It is the same risk you would take with any other friendship. Being FLDS or ex- FLDS has nothing to do with that.

And if by chance you might be having flights of fancy wherein you and she attend church together and stay best friends forever, I'm sorry, but I think the chances of that happening are very slim.

My advice would be to enjoy every minute with your friend that you have now. Cherish them. Relish them. And let the future take care of it's self. If she stays in contact with you, hooray! If not, at least you got to know her for the time that you did, and that is a good thing, right?

But if the father and brother know of you and still let her visit with you, maybe, maybe, they will let her write you when they leave. Just don't be too disappointed if she doesn't.

Anonymous said...

It really is difficult to know what advice to give. There are so many different opinions and ideas among the FLDS. There was a time when everyone seemed to be on the same road but not so now. One of my children who follows WJ has been told to no longer associate with me or my other children. I only see her if I happen to meet her in town shopping or something. If her husband is with her at that time she won't even look at me. If she is alone I might be able to get close enough to give her a hug and let her know I love her. But she doesn't stay for long, just hurries away. I am not aloud to talk to her children--my grandchildren. They won't come near me.
They have been taught that I am an appostate, which is absolutely not true. My religion is stronger than ever. I believe as I always have-- Dividing families has never ever been a part of my belief.

Anonymous said...

Carolyn Jessop Speaks

Yes this book by Ms. Jessup certainly opens a can of worms, how will it effect the FLDS when they hear of Jeffs statements that he is not a prophet. For the first time in his life Warren Jeffs told the truth:

"In the final chapter, titled "End Game," Jessop writes: "It's hard to know what to believe about Warren Jeffs. He apparently confessed to his brother Nephi Jeffs that he was the most evil of men and had worked his way up through the FLDS only because he wanted power."
IMO neither Warren Jeffs or his father held the keys to the preisthood. True IMO. As to holds the keys, ask a Roman Catholic and he will tell you the Pope holds the keys to the Preisthood and Kingdom of God through direct succesion from the Apostle Peter, ask a LDS church member and he will tell you that the keys were lost due to apostasy and restored to Joseph Smith and that keys are now held by Gordon Hinckley in direct succesion from Joseph Smith.

But what effect will this have on FLDS, will they ignore Jeffs confessions and still consider him a prophet, will the FLDS break up into different groups, with some forming independant groups or associating with other groups Cenntenial Park, AUB, Kingstons etc.

What becomes of YFZ in Texas, who is calling the shots there, Merril Jessop? A scarcy thought, will hard core followers of Jeffs gather there under Jessop's control? Will they comply with laws and only have adult "spiritual" marriges, or create some confrontation with LE in the future. With previous article publishing indicating water & sewer facilities for 3000 persons are we looking at a FLDS centered in Texas with the persons left along Utah/Arizona boarder as apopstates from FLDS?

Anonymous said...

Here are some articles on a polygamous criminal, and unlike most polygamous crooks such as Warren Jeffs, Tom Green, and Brain David Mitchell. This ones a woman!

Here's what KSL had to say: "The long, bloody trail of the LaBaron cult has many links to Utah. The FBI hopes the reward might prompt someone here to come forward.

The FBI says Tarsa LeBaron should be considered armed and dangerous. If you know anything, they suggest calling local law enforcement or your nearest FBI office."

KSL

If you want to remain anonymous:
="http://www.amw.com/report_tip/report_tip_special_case.cfm?id=26226">Tip Link


Or call 1-800-CRIMETV

Anonymous said...

Above link for Anonymous tip should be: TIP LINK

Sorry for mistake.

Anonymous said...

OPRAH to have show on polygamy, FLDS, guest will be Carolyn Jessop, ex wife of the dude running YFZ near Eldorado, Texas.

The SLTrib reported that Oprah will have show on polygamy this Friday 26 October. From Brooke Adams blog: Salt Lake Tribune

Guests on this show per article include Carolyn Jessop, Oprah also gave all members of audience copy of Jessop's book. Sounds like an interesting show.

bbgae said...

Caroline is a very awesome person. I am going to try to catch the show.

Caroline was my little brother's teacher. No one helped him out and loved him like she did. He struggled and struggled in school before entering her class. I remember he cried when he heard she had left.

I am glad she is finally happy. Her father and other mother are awesome people, too.

Anonymous said...

Time magazine had a nice write up on Carolyn Jessop's book. Here's a link:
Excellent Review

In article it mentions Warren Jeffs plans to move people to "Central Place" IMO everyone in Eldorado, TX know where that is north of town.

Poster bbgae stated in pervious post that, "Caroline is a very awesome person." Appears that Time magazine and Oprah would agree.! :)

Anonymous said...

Court TV Special on Elizabeth Smart Kidnapping
Court TV will have special report on Elizabeth Smart's kidnapping by polygamists Mitchell & Barzee.
The Kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart
Premieres Monday, October 29 at 10pm E/P

Elizabeth Smart became the subject of an intense police hunt when she was reported abducted from her bedroom in the summer of 2002. When she was found alive in March 2003, the questions began as to what had happened to her and how she remained undetected for so long. TV-PG, L

More info this link:
TV Special-14 year old kidnapped by Polygamists
More info this link:
More Info

IMO Mitchell & Barzee are guilty of crimes with which they are charged, another polygamy based crime like those of Warren Jeffs.

bbgae said...

Two brothers from Centennial Park died in a car crash on Saturday. Here is the link.

bbgae said...

Oops! I meant plane crash.

Anonymous said...

Who are Benjamin and James? Who are their parents?

Anonymous said...

Benjamin is Gwendolyn's and James is Ilenes. Both sons of Alma A. Timpson.

Anonymous said...

UNCADUFF SAYS.

the aftermath ? I wonder if its just the eye of the storm.....

onthestreet said...

Yes, the plane crash, the market crash, and mayhem unrestrained, until the desolation decreed. 2012 is upon you.