Thursday, August 23, 2007
Gearing up for warren's trial
I read in the paper about several individuals that are being given the chance to testify at warren's trial. One of them stated, according to the report, that he would testify of how much warren controlled every aspect of the people's lives. It occurred to me that while I attended meetings and heard warren's teachings I never felt like he had any control over me. I wonder how others feel about this.
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120 comments:
I realize that my situation is different than many. I was not in danger of losing my spouse or children. I had family that would be in and some out. I just wonder if others actually felt like he had a noose around thier neck or was is just that they were afraid of the change that would occur if they stood up to the heirarchy.
Interesting - I also wonder if there is a difference between men and women - or not?
An anonymous survey, would be interesting. One of the questions, would of course be if they were currently faithful FLDS with all rights and benefits of that community.
It would be interesting to see if the answers were different based on that factor, or if other factors had more of an impact on their perception of their experience.
It is time for a new Prophet and I feel that the Jessops have a right to this. Val Jessop, with his knowledge and rightousness, deserves this title. Look at what he has gone through and survived!!
I'm no braniac here, but enough folk on this blog thought Val was OTS that I would question the reasoning for that choice.
Why in the heck would they think a great man would spout such absurd and vile things - if he was so amazing.
Short answer - they wouldn't - cuz he's not amazing.
Mind you, I don't know the man, except the stuff I saw on TV - which, I admit, was less than impressive.
I doubt even the protestant holy rollers, which we must admit have a lower standard for admittance into their 'church thang' wouldn't make him their leader.
6:10 pm.
There has never been a "Prophet" of any Mormon Funadamentalist Group
who has not been in-laws with the Jessops.FLDS,AUB,Cenntenial,or what
ever.In fact,One might say Mormon Fundamentalistism is basically a "Jessop Family" thing.
Well, perhaps a 'different' Jessop then.
Val Jessop and his family shall be the royal family of the FLDS!! Is he not of sound mind?? He has three wives and is revered by many, forgiven by the prophet...
Ruthieee, stop it!
Val Jessop and his family shall be the royal family of the FLDS!! Is he not of sound mind?? He has three wives and is revered by many, forgiven by the prophet...
All his wives, all three are Cookes! There is healing in this!
who is his third wife? Huh? And who said he is forgiven by the prophet? where do you get your information? do tell!
Just ask Val himself. He only shares the truth, the Heavenly Father speaks through him. He has gained the ticket to forgiveness
by regaining one and five.
Havent you all got a bit too much 'Prophet' on the brain.
The Mormons do that. Everyone next in line takes the Title 'Prophet, seer and revelator, yet they dont prophyesy, they dont see anything new and they dont reveal anything new.
What wrong with the title 'chief administrator' or 'Head Elder.'
A man is only a prophet if he is acting as a prophet with a word from God.
The rest of the time he's working out his salvation like the rest of us.
Regaining one and five?
Well, she has a point. Royals are oftentimes mad as hatters, and they do tend to marry their own...a little to often for the health of their DNA.
Have you ever heard of the 'blue people' (blue fugates)?
Nothing morally pure about the Royals, it all went to their head, and they don't really do anything to deserve the title either.
So calling them Royals is actually a tad bit of a slam. Probably not intended as such, but...unfortunately tis just that.
9.06 pm. anon. and Atari,
you both got my point very well.
All the "Plig Royals" are the things
you mention.
Hmmm, could "Ruthieee" be number three?
Anon 8:58
Probably! OMG! Who would ever choose to mary him would have to be crazy!
I wonder how Laurene puts up with his madness, can you imagine what that household must be like.
She is just as confused as he is. She experienced the world, now she has realized her mistake in trusting Val's word. I hope she remembers what real love was like, freedom and happiness.
Is Marie with them?
Anonymous said...
Val Jessop and his family shall be the royal family of the FLDS!! Is he not of sound mind?? He has three wives and is revered by many, forgiven by the prophet...
8/23/2007 8:13 PM
Well the royal family might be careful.
There could be a LeBaron or a Lafferty in the shadows.
Oh my, such an unprophetable conversation this has become.
So true Uncaduff, so true.
http://www.custercountynews.com/
Jane Blackmore attempt to see daughter at South Dakota compound.
I'll take your survey, atar. I'm sure everyone knows by now that I am ex- FLDS and some of you know who I am. I never felt like Warren had a noose around my neck when I was still "in". I never stopped to think about the power he had over the minute details of my life because I truly believed that was how God wanted it to be and I wanted to please Him. I can see the other side of it now, and I will not EVER let anyone else have that much control over me.
However, I will also say this about Warren. He was good and kind to me when I was going through the trial of leaving my first husband. He was the one who let me go heal in Canada- which saved me in the end, even if I do feel the price I paid for that whole scandal was - if not just and right, a bit too harsh.
I never really wanted to stand up to the hierarchy- the task was too daunting and seemed ill advised. Yes, I could see the bad things that were happening, but there were good things too, and - honestly- I did not want the ostracism and trouble I knew would come with it.
My husband and I had decided to leave before we were asked to go. In a way, I was not in danger of losing my family. At least not from Warren's decree.
On the one hand, there are the FLDS who say, "No one understands us. We are God's people doing His will and the gentile judge us falsely as wicked." On the other hand, you have the rest of the world and one of the more common things they say, "Oh those poor abused and deceived people!" But if one stops to think about that for just a moment, they will see that both parties only have one side of the story. the only ones who have both side are the ones who have left because they have truly experienced BOTH sides. However, they usually seem to be divided into two main groups. those who proclaim the evil in the FLDS and those who are content to just move on with their lives.
But I think perhaps that was the whole point, so I do not know how helpful my opinion on this matter will be.
A point of interest that stands out to me is how different people in exactly the same situation say that they feel and felt entirely different than someone else.
Its the same the whole world over regardless of what sort of society or community.
i see no resason for a stigma to be attached or felt by FLDS, the ups and downs in these communities are no different than the rest of the world.
There was a time in my life when I had some questions, after a few visits to see Uncle Rulon, he asked if I new Winston Blackmore. I said I have been up there before and my father knows him well. He told me to go see Winston and he could answer my questions. I was a little confused at the time for I lived in Salt Lake and I figured there was plenty of fine brethren I could see, (Wendell, Allen Steed, Warren, Ron Rohbock, LeRoy Jeffs). My question now is? Why am I kicked out for having an association with whom Uncle Rulon sent my to in the first place??? This Warren guy must not have been as one with his father as he said he was or he would have understood, why I was talking to Winston. HIS FATHER TOLD ME TOO. What gives?
Dear annon 8.05
Did you have a trial, was there a pre-trial hearing, were there reasons given, were you allowed to answer those reasons, was there evidence for and against you, were you allowed to represent yourself, were others allowed to stand and speak for you.
All these things are developments we Anglo-saxons have had to earn, and often by blood shed.
I hope in the whole act of seeking Godliness that the FLDS do not forget that the falibilities of mankind require a judicial procedure to ensure ones rights are not abused.
'Rights' as in: 'what you have a right to.'
Some of the people I work with were called in for jury duty for Warren's trail. They were gone on Friday because of this. The article in the Salt Lake Tribune related after the jury were interviewed and if a sufficient number of them could pass, the trail would begin on the 12th. That's this Wednesday.
9/03/ 8:05
You my friend, were experiencing "rule by arbitrary judgment" this monster always raises its ugly head, whenever the citizens of any society fail to take part in there own government. and in particular, in a so-called theocracy.
uncaduff
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/09/11/fleeing.polygamy.hammon/index.html
finny,I knew her as rachael hammon, not sara in 8th grade.
Try her younger sister, Roberta...She looks like Rachel though.
funny,I knew her as rachael hammon, not sara in 8th grade.
her name is Sara, she has a sister named Rachael, and also one named Roberta.
No, her name is Roberta. When she left the community, she changed her name to Sara.
She obviously has some deep psychological problems she is dealing with.
Why can't people leave when they leave?
I knew that her father was a very abusive man, but growing up with some of his children as classmates, I never knew about the sexual abuse, until I was older.
He openly talked about the physical beatings he gave his sons when he talked in church.
Today is the second day of Warren's trial. It's been a little over a year since he was captured, did anyone remember and post on it? Any thoughts on the trail? Any guesses of innocent or guilty yet?
To Anon 11:34-
Why can't people leave when they leave? I have just one question for you: Did you leave?
Hey, TBM-
Are you still out there in the virtual ether? How are you surviving these days? Especially with things going the way they are where you're at.
so who is Cindy Blackmore, that was on good morning America, this morning?
Nice strategy Warren's lawyers are using. Find a woman he did release from her husband in a similar situation to Jane Doe. Still doesn't prove how he treated Jane Doe; just proves Jennifer was older and more assertive.
did he find her, or did she come forward on her own?
I never wanted to be married to my first husband either. My parents objected to the marriage but they never said a word about that until it was all over and it was safe to do so. They were afraid of what would happen if they did. I was not released form him, I left him. And I had to pay for my "sins". But Warren let me go to Canada for my repentance, and it was a kindness on his part. And he remarried me to my current husband and we are very happy.
Oh! And for the record, I know there is a piece of "scripture" that was read in church all the time that states "The wife is to obey the husband IN ALL THINGS" I think it is in one of the Student Stars, and I think it is written in bold just like that.
Also, for the record, I sat through a sermon of Warren's in 1998-99 where he severely chastised the men and told them the decision to have children was the wife's decision and the husband could not force her or he would loose his priesthood (and family).
I believe that is the same sermon Jennie Pipkin referred to when she testified on the stand for the defense.
Of course that is why she was released from her husband Jonathon.
According to her, her husband was asking for affection and she did not want to give it to him, after 5 children.
So she was released from him.
Poor Jonathon did not have a second wife to go to. Hmm.
I wonder if she was given to another man.
I guess he would have to be sterile or he would fall into the same mouse trap.
Jonathon are you out there somewhere to give yourside of the story?
So how is Craig Barlow related to the colorado city barlows? Is he one of Ianthus(John Y's Brother) Barlows grandsons?
BB
One thing that is going to make this difficult for both sides is that nearly every sermon warren gave he contradicted himself in the principle he was trying to put forward. He would start out his sermon by emphasizing the point he wanted to get accross and then before the end he would acknowledge kind of that what he was teaching was not really according to our standard teachings. I always thought of his talks like a newspaper placing all the news they don't really want the public to have in the last pages of the paper. By the time warren got to the end of his sermon the interest of the people had waned and the first part is all most of them heard.
fttc-
I think you are right.
I worked with Jonathan at the time he married Jennie, and I heard she had ASKED for him and he had to quickly be given the Melchizedek Priesthood so they could be married. Jonathan is a very good person, and I know once Jennie was very, very much in love with him. I did not know they were divorced. Jonathan, if you are out there somewhere, here is one woman who thinks you are a good person.
There is a world of difference between marrying a man you ASKED for and marrying one you were TOLD to whom you did not want to marry but did anyway.
What I heard of Jennie's testimony I did not like. She was so (almost bitterly!) vehment about the woman's freedom to obey her husband and then so very reluctant to answer the attorney when he asked her if there were any couples living in the FLDS who were fertile and chose not to have children and the answer was zero. He had to ask her several time before she would give a straight answer.
The first part I felt like I was listening to a rehearsed religious campaign and the last part I could almost hear her mind calculating the loss of husband, family, house, respect, and children if she said the word "zero".
It would seriously suck IMHO (please pardon the french ) to be in that jury!
WHATEVER
Anon 9:23-
Can you really say in all honesty that if (if, mind you) in a wild turn of events the jury declares Warren guilty listing among the reasons for their decision the fact that there are no fertile couples in the FLDS faith who simply chose to not have children and he is sentenced to x number of years in jail there would be no consequences to Jennie? At the very LEAST, she would be subject to public scorn wherever she went in Colorado City and Hildale, and her husband would most likely receive a severe chastisement for not being able to control his rebellious wife.
Also, take this into consideration: Jonathan and Jennie were in the same grade in school. As was my sister. My sister and her friend would come home from school, where they shared some of the same classes with both Jonathan and Jennie,and on several occasions relate how sickened and disgusted they were by Jonathan's and Jennie's flirtatious behavior. Do you think it is possible for two people to go to school every day for nine months out of the year for twelve years and have Jennie still, "Not know him very well"? In a large high school in a very big city, I believe that is completely possible, but NOT in a tiny close-knit community like Colorado City! But (as far as I know) no one chastised Jonathan for this behavior. Maybe because he was in public school where they could not do so, and maybe because he was ALSO the "son" of Bishop Fred M. Jessop, Second councilor to the "prophet"? (Hmmmm... it would seem being the child of a high ranking religious official definitely has it's good points and it's bad points!)
I will also give you this little scenario to mull over: After ten years of marriage, Jennie is unhappy. The sex just isn't as good as it used to be, but Jonathan still loves and desires her(how DARE he!)Birth control is out of the question because it is against the religion (How scandalous! You should use self control, not birth control!) and Jennie does NOT want another child (five is quite enough for now, thank you!). What's a girl to do? If she uses birth control one of her mothers might spot the condom in the garbage can on their visit and report them (Yes, there really are mothers who do this, mine included). Seeing a 'Gentile' doctor for prescribed birth control is out of the question because she has been taught that is second only to abortion and practialy murder. But, Warren has been preaching lately about the sacred duty of the wives to remain faithful to the PROPHET and to God by not allowing themselves and their children to be led a disloyal and unrighteous man down to hell. Jennie knows all she has to do is write a letter phrased the correct way to the right person and she can obtain a release. She also knows, having been married once, she will most likely be given as a plural wife to someone older than herself. She is young, she is pretty, and maybe she can manipulate this new husband to get special treatment once in a while. So, she writes the letter, and in a matter of weeks, it's good bye unwanted husband, and hello new man!
Obviously I've never met Allen Steed but from what I saw of him on Court TV I find it nigh impossible to believe he raped his now ex-wife. Seeing him on the stand I was overwhemled with a sense of sympathy for the man. Am I wrong in feeling sympathy towards him? Is there anyone out there who knows him, grew up with him, who can give us a sense of what he's like?
If an innocent individual is instructed to commit an evil act not knowing that it is wrong because they were instructed by someone who they trust would never tell them to do anything that is wrong in the eyes of the Lord, and they also believe they must "perfectly obey" this person or they would be disobeying the Lord; who should be held responsible for the act committed?
IITMOC
IITMOC, let me answer with another question;
who should be held responsible for ones stupidity?
uncaduff
Allen is a great guy shy and easy going. His EX gave him so much crap cuz he wasnt cool. Or one of the community studs.
Uncaduff, let's pose IITMOC's question another way:
If you are handicapped from the moment of birth, are you stupid?
OR perhaps:
If you are handicapped from the moment of birth, are you responsible for your handicap?
A Lurker
Lurker, I wonder if you should clarify the relevance of your post, to IITMOC's original question.
uncaduff
Uncaduff,
I need your definition of "stupidity" before I can totally answer that question. But as a quote I once heard goes: “fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.”
Is someone stupid if they don’t know of any other way or alternatives? Or is it possible they are just uninformed or misinformed? Reminds me of Mark Twain who once said: "To not read the newspaper will make you uninformed, but to read it will cause you to be misinformed." So, who is the stupid one.
Another question: can you hold someone responsible for results when you dictate all the actions. In other words, who is responsible for the crop that grows; the sowers or the ones who supplied the seed to be sown?
IITMOC
Anon 7:28 am-
So the reason she wasn't keen on marrying him is that he wasn't "cool enough". That makes alot more sense then the cock and bull story of him raping her. She even told authorities to leave him alone. Surely a rape victim would want the rapist brought to justice. Let's not forget she committed adultery and got pregnant while still married to Allen. After seeing the reports on the court case, I think it's BS and Mr. Jeffs should be let out.
With the verdict pending in the Warren Jeffs trial, several message boards have set up polls where one can pretend to be a member of the jury and vote guilty or not guilty.
Express your opinion: SLTRIB Poll
And Courttv: You are the Jury
Regardless if he was "cool" or not, a 14 year old should not be forced to marry.
Let's see,
Allan teased the young teen Elissa by calling her a fat cow, while she was visiting a farm he was working on.
The next thing she knows she is being sealed to him.
Call that romantic?
Elissa was so desperate to rid herself of Allan she committed adultery.
Let's see what is the punishment for that in the FLDS world apostacy...blood atonement and spirial death.
Like Flora Jessop said once in a documentary "She rather live in Hell than in FLDS Heaven".
Anon 1:33-
Have you never heard of Stockholm Syndrome? You know, where the victim begins to identify with his/her abuser?
Did you truly contemplate IITMOC's first question?
Ittmoc, my definition of stupidity, in light of this conversation would be, "fool me once its your fault,fool me twice and its still your fault"
uncaduff.
s someone stupid if...
Another question: can you hold someone responsible for results....
for # one. it's unwise to take any action without realizing that you have some moral responsibility.
# two. the question depends on who the responsibility is owed too.
Stockholm Syndrome? hahahahaha
There is no way in hell the man I saw on Court TV raped her. And from the other anons comment she probably would've been fine had she married a popular boy. She has been trained by her attorneys and told what to say.
Do you have proof or even an a story of any woman being "blood atoned" for adultery in the FLDS??
You people make me sick, you'll say anything or make up any story to fight against what you don't like.
anon 7:26,
Are you OK with a 14 year old being forced to marry?
7:26
Do not lie, you sound like VALueless Jessop.
I don't think any 14 year-old should be forced to marry, but I don't think this situation was forced. I think it's a story her, her companion in adultery, and their lawyers made up.
BTW, I'm not FLDS and never have been, so you can take your conspiracy theory and stick it where all your other wild allegations belong.
anon 9:23,
It sounds like you don’t understand the FLDS culture, seeing you have never been a part of it. I was born and raised in it, even though I may not agree to all of its current teachings, so I’m sure I see this case from a slightly different perspective. I do have just a few questions on this case that need to be answered before you lay all the blame at Jane Doe’s feet. They are as follows:
Was she married at age 14? Both sides agree that she was.
When your parents and religious leaders insist you marry or you will lose your eternal blessings, is not that force?
Did she want to be married to Allen Steed? If no, it does not matter the reason. I also don’t remember any witness that said she was thrilled with the arrangement. Most agreed it was a troubled marriage.
What is rape? Last I checked it was non consensual sex.
Is it likely Allen would have ever had sex with her if she had not been married to him? Very unlikely.
Did she want to have sex? Hard to want something if you don't even know what it is, and object to it when it happens.
Did sex occur? According to both sides it did. I guess the debate here is if she agreed to it. I really don't see someone consenting willingly to sex with someone they don't like.
What sort of “touching” that she objected to would she be referring to when talking to the prophet if it was not sex or sexual in nature? No one disputed that she went to her prophet and said she did not like it, even though she did not use the word sex. The use of that word “sex” is taboo in the FLDS culture.
Did Warren Jeffs, the man who married her, have the power to release her from the marriage she objected to? According to some of the witnesses the defense had, particularly the Pipkin gal, he could.
Could he have stopped the marriage in the beginning? Perhaps, although we don’t know the pressure he was under by Fred Jessop (third in command in the Church at that time) and the girls mother to perform the marriage. I personally think the mother is partly to blame for the whole situation.
In the book "In Light and Truth" that was given to Jane Doe when she was told by Warren Jeffs she needed to repent and submit to her husband, how many references are in the index to choice? I'll help you out, there is none (the only thing under “choice” is that we are “choice spirits”). What about references to obedience, particularly to you Priesthood head, I'll help you out again, it is almost a full page.
Are either side telling the whole story? It is doubtful.
Is Warren Jeffs totally responsible for what happened? I personally don’t think so. I think the system we live under in the FLDS and also the girls father and mother share equal responsibility. Keep in mind, he (Warren Jeffs) didn’t come up with the arrangement, but he did perform the marriage ceremony.
I guess the jury will now decide how responsible he is for what happened.
IITMOC
Was Jane Doe underaged when she had her affair?
no, she would have been around 17 years old.
I am not LDS, but am vary interested in learning about the religion. It intrigues me. Are outside people allowed to visit the church? The one in Eldorado Texas I mean. Would they allow me to attend a church service and ask ?'s. Also I am divorced and have a 12 mo. old, would that disqualify me from being apart of the church if I choose to attend? I can also be reached on yahoo messenger at redneckchkie454. Please if someone who knows more about what I am asking would like to chat. My name is Amie I'm 24. Thanks All
7:26-
I absolutely agree with you that Stockholm Syndrome is a little far fetched. I was showing you the opposite side to your extreme position.
I also think we all know no one has ever been blood atoned for committing adultery. Or any other number of 'unpardonable' sins for that matter despite the 'scripture' there is about it. However, I know and trust Furnace (if he does not remember me) and I believe what he says about the furnace and it's questionable purpose at the Texas compound.
And, yes, that is still only suspicion, not hard fact.
IITMOC- Thanks once again for your level headed response and logical explanation. you do a far better job of that than I do. You are a credit to us all.
JD 11:146 Heber C Kimbell October 6, 1865 SLC
Whatever the Prophet and President of the Church tells us to do, for he is directed by the unerring Spirit of the Almighty to counsel this people.
We are connected with him in the Lord.
D&C 132
41. And as ye have asked a concerning adultery, verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man receiveth a wife in the new and everlasting covenant, and if she be with another man, and I have not appointed unto her by the holy anointing, she hath committed adultery and shall be destroyed.
JD 4:219 Brigham Young February 8, 1857 SLC
...This is loving our neighbour as ourselves; if he needs help, help him; and if he wants salvation and it is necessary to spill his blood on the earth in order that he (she) maybe saved, spill it. Any of you who understand the principles of eternity, if you have sinned a sin requiring the shedding of blood, except the sin unto death, would not be satisfied nor rest until your blood should be spilled, that you might gain that salvation you desire. That is the way to love mankind.
JD 4:49 Jedediah M. Grant September 21, 1856 SLC
I say, that there are men and women that I would advise to go to the President immediately, and ask him to appoint a committee to attend to their case; and then let a place be selected, and let that committee shed their blood.
We have those amongst us that are full of all manner of abominations, those who need to have their blood shed, for water will not to, their sins are too deep a dye.
Purity in The New and Everlasting Convenant of Marriage
Published by Rulon Jeffs 1999
Sorry I forgot the last part....
JD 4:49 Jedediah M. Grant September 21, 1856 SLC
I say, that there are men and women that I would advise to go to the President immediately, and ask him to appoint a committee to attend to their case; and then let a place be selected, and let that committee shed their blood.
We have those amongst us that are full of all manner of abominations, those who need to have their blood shed, for water will not to, their sins are too deep a dye.
You may think that I am teaching you Bible doctrine, but what says the apostle Paul? I would ask how many convenant breakers there are in this city and in this kingdom. I believe that there are a great many; and if they are covenant breakers we need a place designated, where we can shed their blood...........
Anon 4;24/ 4:33-
Thank you for providing the exact scripture. My husband and I never received or read a copy of 'Purity in the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage' although we knew we were required to read it and live by it, and urged many times to do so; we never got around to it before we left.
IITMOC; you are as always very intelligent and honorable in your posting. I have always enjoyed your posts,
and, because I am former FLDS, it is very refreshing to find a man that is not only still "in", but also a very forward thinking and level headed man!
But I have to tell you this.....you are somewhat misinformed if you believe that the pressure to marry Allen came from Sharon. I was there during this whole thing, and I promise that Sharon was VERY AGAINST Elissa getting married, let alone to her first cousin. She supported the marriage ONLY because it was pushed by Warren, and because of that, she did her duty to "persuade" Elissa to marry Allen. She didn't want to lose Elissa to the "world" because she refused to marry. I saw her heart aching terribley the whole time, and I promise you, it was not easy for her to allow it to happen. So take it easy on the poor lady, ok?
I want to know why Allen Steed?
Was it his lineage? Did he give lots of money to his prophet?
Why did he get Elissa? Why was Warren willing to break the law to give her to him?
anon 9:43 pm,
Thank you for taking the time to clarify that... I stand corrected.
A few questions, since I was not there and can only go by what others have said (and like I said in my previous post, I don't think either side is telling the complete story).
According to court testimony, it was uncle Fred who came up with the marriage. Is that correct?
Before Sharon found out who Elissa was to be married to, did she support her being married at age 14?
Was there any reason she wanted her married that young?
Is it possible that Sharon supported her being placed in a marriage to keep her around, but when she found out who was picked, at that point objected?
Why do you think that Sharon thought her daughter would be “lost” if she had intervened and said she was too young?
Was there some reason that you saw the Elissa would have been "lost to the world" if she had not been married? What I mean is this; was her mother and uncle Fred concerned that if she didn't get married to someone that she would leave? Perhaps she was getting a little rebellious and “not submitting to her Priesthood head.”
If you would like, you can contact me at iitmoc@gmail.com. I would really like to talk more with you. Since you were there, perhaps you could clarify a few other things for me.
IITMOC
This comment about marrying them or else they would be lost to the world means depriving a young girl of her right to choice.
Guilty on both counts.
Warren has been found guilty on both counts.Are the people he ran out of town coming back,the "lost boys/girls?,the Barlows?I dont think it matters that much,about Warren.Colorado City will never be back to the town I grew up in.
The FLDS made it 100 years without any issues of this magnitude and it took one foolish false prophet to throw everything into upheaval. I'm sure his father is rolling in his grave over his careless and selfish behavior. Shame on you Warren. I said it to your face 3 years ago and now you get to stay in YOUR cage. You reassigned like a dictator and ruled by greed and money and never knew the way of J. Smith.
As wrong as it is today to feel proud about what you have become, I must say I told you so.
I told you this would happen.
The sins of the father is visited upon the children.
Rulon created the monster.
I'm not FLDS and live on the opposite side of the country. However, I've watched the Warren Jeffs trial and can't stop thinking about the witnesses involved.
Now that Warren has been found guilty, what is the likelihood that Allen Steed will be charged with rape?
Does anyone know more about how he is coping since testifying?
Right or wrong, I feel compassion and sympathy for him. I suppose it's easier for me to feel this way since Elissa Wall does not wish to see him charged and views him as a sort of victim in all of this, as well. Personally, I hope that he is not charged.
Well, I honestly have to say I am shocked. I heard the verdict while still at work and I had to rush home and read the news before I completely believed it. I really was expecting an innocent verdict on both counts either that or a deadlock and the trial to be recalled later. At the very most I thought maybe he would be found guilty on one count and do 5 yrs.
I am very surprised. The case seemed a little weak. I completely sympathized with Jane Doe the whole time, but something like that is so hard to prove.
Jane Doe wasn't happy so she takes all of us down with her. It was a selfish act and her tears are manufactured this many years later. She could have dealt with this issue in a much more respectful manner. Warren is and always has been reasonable and over time she would have recieved the punishment she deserved. God wanted the marriage and she denied gods will.
Who will profit from the demise of the prophet?
Next in line?
It will be very interesting to hear the jurors account of how they reached their decision.
I personally didn't think he would be found guilty, especially on two counts. I also was not in the court room, nor did I hear all the testimony.
IITMOC
First to anon 4:33
I am glad warren has always been reasonable with you. However, I can with clear conscience say that is not true with others. He has acted very predjudicial and in his self interest. Perhaps you will excuse him as only human and I suppose that is true. Look where his humanism has led him.
Anon 4:34
Which demise do you refer to? If the people have not realized what warren is already a guilty verdict will change very little. The FLDS has functioned quite well with him in prison for the past year. It will continue. I must say it can be said warren is still running the "kingdom" with much more credibility than it could be said of his father after his death, and the FLDS swallowed it then. They will swallow it now.
BB
I am somewhat shocked as well. I thought at least one count would be dismissed. The saddest part of this all is the way it will be percieved by the people. The cry will be "persecution, persecution". If the FLDS follows the same legal pattern they have in the past this will be appealed to the utmost. This is by no means the end of litigation.
People could do so much more with their lives if they just dropped the religious part. Create an identity for yourself! Don't be part of the herd! The possibilities are endless! Religion is nothing more than a self-working control system for humanity.
Does anyone know how to contact Allen Steed? Does he use the internet?
your right Fttc, Brigham Yong ran the territory of Deseret very well from Salt lake city,when the fast form of communication was something akin to the pony express. I expect warren with a cell(no pun intended)phone, will do OK.
Well did Uncle Warren make a prophecy of going to jail.
If he didn't he missed a golden opportunity.
He didn't miss that one either. There is a link on the Tribune site where he told the people that there was a conspiracy by the apostates and the law to put him and other leading men in jail and away from the people.
The most interesting thing to me about this is that prior to this he had made statements to the effect that the Lord would intervene and protect His prophet (warren). But then I have learned that raking up the past is just being contentious and causes us to not 'Keep Sweet'.
Questions breed apostacy. We must never question what is told to us by the prophet. If it doesn't make sense to us it shows a weakness in our faith and must be squelched or we will not be among those lifted up with the prophet.
I dress my kids up like little house on the prairie too. Warrent has taken the fall for decades of abuse that took place under his fathers reign of terror.
the Colorado City sign on the Berry knoll has been changed to read;"elevation 5000 ft.",instead of the previous 6000 Ft.
did my little quip on Lori's documentary get someone's attention,
or has there been some backsliding,since Warrens incarceration?
Which Lori has made a documentary?
Her name is Laurie Allen. She's the producer of the "Banking on Heaven" documentary.
www.bankingonheaven.com
hey uncaduff, your "lifting up" quip was one of my favorite scenes in that documentry. i think you provided the only smile that was possible in the whole film.
Laurie, ooops! sorry about spelling your name wrong. Don't hate me, K?
I dont really understand why the parents are guilty of acomplish to rape. They failed her. They are the ones with a legal obligation to protect there child. I see this getting appealed.
the state, by prosecuting Warren, wants to cut the head off the snake. only problem is, the snake always grows several new heads and each new head grows a new snake.
Headline:
Ex-husband in Jeffs trial charged with rape
"Washington County prosecutors charged Allen Glade Steed, who testified for the defense in the rape as an accomplice trial of Warren Jeffs, with first-degree felony rape in 5th District Court today.
Judge Eric Ludlow signed an arrest warrant for Steed and set bail at $50,000 cash only."
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695213476,00.html
I respect Elissa Wall very much for standing up for what she thinks is right. I also tend to believe that Allen Steed probably is guilty of rape under the laws of our country. However, I do see him as somewhat of a victim in all of this, as well.
He was (and still seems to be) as deeply entrenched in the FLDS principles as Elissa was. He apparently felt as obligated to follow Jeffs' advice as she did. Yes, he was 19 and she just 14, but I believe he was just as naive and felt pressure to consumate the marriage. If he is convicted, I hope that he will receive a sentence on the shorter side - along with some hope of deprogramming counseling.
Do any of you know if Elissa Wall will agree to testify against him in his rape trial? I thought I had read that she had not wished to see him charged, but maybe she has changed her mind after his testimony in the Jeffs trial?
Some of you will really disagree with my feelings about him (and my compassion for him) but it's just one opinion.
Methinks; all Flds child brides who were married within the last seven years, will suddenly find themselves the recipients of much love and affection, such that they will all be the favorite wife,in there respective families.
I pulled up this old article from the Eldorado newspaper - It's from 2004. In the second part of the article, it mentions Allen Steed being excommunicated to the compound there by Warren Jeffs (before he was on the run), assigned new wives, then excommunicated from the FLDS altogether.
Can any of you shed any light on this? Was there any truth to this story back then? I can imagine that it could have been true, but then Jeffs suddenly needed Steed's testimony and help, so he welcomed him back into the sect . Just curious...
Different Allen Steed
Really? The previous article showed a photo of him with Roy Steed and David Allred and it sure looked like the Allen Steed I saw testifying. Thanks!
Nope. The Allen Steed in that photo is older and balding walking behind Roy and David. He's the eldest son of Woodruff Steed.
Allen Glade Steed is the grandson of Newell Steed, Woodruff's brother.
Who are Allen's parents?
The man in the photo you mistook for Allen Steed is Ernie Jessop, just as the caption said. Ernie is the son of Merril Jessop who is supposed to be in charge at the YFZ Ranch. Ernie and the older Allen Steed were both excommunicated and have been repenting from a distance.
Oh, thanks so much for clarifying. I saw a news report saying Allen Steed (the one who testified in Jeff's trial) was no longer in good standing with the church and so that's what made me wonder if I was imagining that there was a resemblance. (I've just heard so many conflicting news stories and am honestly confused)! But, I see my error! Thanks so much for your help!
The younger Allen is Allen Glade Steed. His birth certificate lists his Mom's maiden name as Kathleen Carlson and his Dad's name as Lawrence Steed.
I saw Allen Steed's picture online today in the arrests. He was smiling in his mug shot.
FYI; Erie Jessop has been re-instated to his position in the FLDS complete with his family.
His "crime" along with the senior Allen Steed, was that he didn't report one of Rulon's wives that were trying to hide in a trailer that was leaving the compound, but they made her stay. They just didnt report it to Warren, and that is why they were "corrected'. My question is, if he is "God's Mouthpeice on Earth" then why didn't God tell him? Huh? Try that one on for size! Of course Warren would just say that he did know, but God was just "testing" those men and their loyalty!
Allow me to point out that Allen Steed had beautiful wives that could serve Warren. Ernies wives are Warren's daughter and sisters, AND he is Merril Jessop's son. So of course it was in Warren's best interest to allow him back. Allen is still in exile, longing to be "worthy" to serve Warren again.
P.S. Freddy Jessop, also Merril's son, lost his temper at Warren when his oldest son was "corrected" and was also sent away briefly. However, he was re-instated to his "full blessings" as well. Hmmm. I see a pattern!!
Who is Ernie mother?
Erie's mom is Ruth Steed Jessop, daughter of Newel and Eliza YOung Steed.
Thank you 8:39 p.m.
Is Ruth Freddy's mom too, or is it Barbara?
To bad Allen did not get his family back.
Or it may be a very good thing for his progress in life. When one is relieved of some of the temptation, then he can proceed to repent from afar.
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