Thursday, February 15, 2007

Western Precision Building for sale

So, I guess the big building will be up for sale by the end of the month. I wonder what changes that will bring. Good ones, I hope.
Also, the Dale E. Barlow trial began on the 14th. Anyone know how that one is comming along?

125 comments:

Anonymous said...

I am more curious as to the whereabouts
of Wendell Nielsen,David Allred,and other big time "Warrenites"They seem to have disappeared.Not in Texas,Not in South Dakota,not in Colorado,

Anonymous said...

how do you know they are not in Texas, S.D. or Colorado?

Anonymous said...

Also what happened to Nathanel S & Samuel S Allred?

Anonymous said...

Change of subject--A massive quantity of Uncle Roy's sermons have been shreaded and mixed with manure by the dairy. I wonder why. If the sermons are excess from the print shop, isn't that still a little disrespectful?

Anonymous said...

No it is call recycling for the betterment of poop.

ATAR_i said...

Shredding cassettes and mixing with manure is not only disrespectful - it's just plain stupid.

Why in G-ds name would you mix plastic with a biodegradable and very usable future material such as manure.

How utterly wasteful and idiotic! Put it in the garbage can - pulllease!

How did you come to find this shredded treasure?

furnace said...

It's not plastic; it's printed paper. I suspect it was probably leftovers from the print shop. I don't think Warren has done a purging of Uncle Roy's sermonds. I think it odd to mix Uncle Roy's sermons with manure.

Anonymous said...

How can they try a man for committing a crime before it was a crime? I had understood that when Dale Barlow married Linda, it was not illegal to marry someone that young as long as they had parental permission. Can someone enlighten me?

ATAR_i said...

I would have posted this in a new area, but can't seem to. They don't allow me to create new area because the texas blog hasn't been updated to the new blogger.

I'm not certain how that works, so Admin - can you please upgrade so we can post.

I'm certain they will, but if'n they don't I'll start a new one - promise.

Anyhoo Here's what I would have posted.

September Dawn, a new movie coming out May 4th of this year. Just heard the trailer - couldn't watch it because I didn't upgrade my OS, but I heard it - looks interesting.

bbgae said...

I will not reveal my source because I do not want to get them into trouble for talking to this "wicked apostate." Let's just say my source is relaible - the relative of someone who still works for Western. As for Wendall.... who knows?
I do know that Western was famous for donating all the workers paychecks to 'Uncle' Rulon and talking them into it. There was also this whole "I'm holier than you, so you will get fired (or should) and I am foreman (or will be soon). I'm glad the building is for sale. Hopefully a good buisness will buy it and provide some decent work for the people out there. Then maybe they can begin to heal a little.
Good buisness= money for families
Money for families= less government dependency.
By the way, sorry for posting about this on the other thread. I waited for it to show up and when it didn't show up right away I thought it was lost. :)

bbgae said...

Hmmm.... September Dawn does look interesting. I'm adding it to my "want to see" list.
I wonder what tale of horror and lies it will uncover. Another nice subject to debate over with tmb....

ATAR_i said...

Honestly, I guess I wouldn't think the LDS church was any better or any worse if it were true. Lots of massacres happened throughout time - what we did to the indians.

Let's just consider slavery - honestly how hideous is that. It wouldn't suprise me if it happened the way they suppose it did. I think it's more interesting that there is complete unwillingless to even consider that it happened like that.

On an interesting note - Look at what happened to the Worldwide Church of God. It's an amazing story - an amazing ending - I was riveted!

bbgae said...

ATTENTION ALL: This is your offical oppology for my spelling errors on the title. I just now realized them. I am a little embarassed. :(....:)
The link I was trying to give was: http://www.kcsg.com/story.aspx?id=2271 if you're interested.
Atari- You are right. There are many bad things that have happened in the history of mankind. I like to hope that as our species evolves there will be less of it, but it is a little unrealistic that it will completely disappear. I haven't had time to watch the World Wide Church of God yet, but I will as soon as I can.

bbgae said...

...oops! I did it again....

bbgae said...

Thanks to Presidents' Day, I didn't need to help anyone with homework. So... I watched that.

It was very interesting. I felt the same way as some of those people when I left the FLDS. Once I realized one thing couldn't possibly be right, the others just kept popping up. I feel like that man said- something to the effect of: It was a very hard thing to go through, and I couldn't say I could survive living through it again, but thankyou, Lord, for doing this to me!

Come back everybody! It's not fun talking to myself. :)

ATAR_i said...

I thought the amazing thing was that they changed - changed the doctrine of a huge religious group.

It's a pretty amazing story.

I think I love youtube. And I also think Tom Cruise is more of a freak than I ever realized before.

A moment of silence for poor Katie now.

Anonymous said...

i have a question?

do the flds have communion ever sunday and do they use water like the lds or do they use grape juice or wine.

the reason i asked, it is my understanding there was wine or grape juice bottles found in the western percision building after their exodus.

Anonymous said...

11;14 anon,
I suspect that the grape juice and/or wine was there for some other purpose.
Warren suposedly suspended sacrement along with all other church activity,some time back.

ATAR_i said...

Wine is concealed very nicely in sacramental grape juice glass containers. I heard there was not only juice but alchohol containers.

Is that correct?

I also saw heard that the most recent exodus for CC the families were encouraged to leave certain children behind.

bbgae said...

11:14- The FLDS use water. but I have heard rumors that they will use wine or alchol at a later date. Maybe the second comming? I also heard the rumor that the prophet uses it when he preformes the sacrament with his closest advisors.

bbgae said...

This is my moment of silence for Katie... one, one thousand... two... three......ect.

Atari, did you read about the silent birth thing? No wonder Katie had a hard time delivering Suri!

Absolute silence is required in the birthing room (to keep the emgrams-bad memories of former lives) from infecting the infant. The mother is required to not use any painkillers of any kind.

Now, I have delivered all three of my babies without any form of painkillers. But if I didn't have the freedoom to breathe loudly and pant, or scream because it hurt and if I hadn't had someone next to me saying comforting things, like "It's ok, you're doing fine", or "Push! Push! That's it, that's just right...", and "Hang in there, you're almost done..." and it had been me, I would have murdered Tom by now!

bbgae said...

Ok. Murder is too harsh. I didn't mean it literally. I was speaking purly in hormonal pregnant woman mode. Switching off now! But if my husband ever tried that with me, he'd better look out! FYI- he knows better.

ATAR_i said...

Yes, estrogen latitude given - we are talking about childbirth!

I had medication - I can't say it was all lovely - the first one it had mostly worn off by the time the baby arrived. Second one better, third one - amazing. But, even that childbirth wasn't silent!

Gosh darn thetans! LOL - I love the cartoon when at the end the guy jokingly quips - 'if we only had a virgin birth or some theology that made sense' - or something like that.

I just cracked up.

bbgae said...

That reminds me of what my father used to say.
"Do you think the devil will tell you an outright lie? No! He knows we're smarter than that. He'll tell you a lie with a few grains of truth in it."
Like the thetans.... but I'm not seeng one grain in that one. Maybe he was wrong?

Anonymous said...

about the grape juice/wine thing,when I was a member of "the junior school of the prophets", we always used uncle Fred's home made wine for the Sacrament.
and.... it was a well known fact, that most of the priesthood council drank alcohol.I was invited into this super secret,first
saterday of the month meeting sometime in the early 1960s,I opted out in 1981.
uncaduff

Anonymous said...

I've never heard of the junior school of the prophets - what was it?

This super secret first saturday of the month meeting - what did they do during it generally?

As far as secrets go. I saw my father, and asked him if he knew the phrase 'Is there no help for the widows son?'. It's supposed to be a masonic cry for help.

My father stated, "well, that's not it - it's only one word". I begged him to tell me, and he stated "I can't, it's a secret". I said "but you're not one of them anymore", he still wouldn't tell me.

I showed him all the masonic gestures and I even did the handshake with him, he showed me where to put my fingers - but he would not reveal the word.

The music on that 'masonic gestures video' is really creepy. Perhaps someone can tell if any of those gestures are in the mormon cerimonies as well.

OH...and get this - how would you like to save 500,000 dollars.

In order to get this information in scientology - you need to spend at least that much to get to level 8. These books are SOOO super secret that they are numbered and kept under guard.

HOWEVER, because they used them in a court case - it's a matter of public record and they are ONLINE. Took me awhile to find them - but you can see for yourself.

I believe Tom Cruise almost had a nervous breakdown at OTII because that's when they reveal the Xenu story (I imagine he felt like...'what the h*** - I've paid 100,000 and spent like 20 hours a week for the past two years and this is just a pile of dung)

But - here it is OT I-OT VIII revealed. You can barely understand some of they are saying they use so many super secret alien words.

Anonymous said...

My name isn't showing up - it's freaking driving me crazy <---- atar

That was my post above too.

Anonymous said...

the Jr. school of the was a take off from the "school of the prophets"that JS. started in navoo. using the ol priestly stick and carrot,(your the best people on earth,but your not good enough.),we were the "junior school".
We were required to observe a sexual fast for a week prior to to the meeting.on the big day we had no food,(regular fast)we weren't to tell anyone, even our wife(s)where we were going. we were not say ,or believe anything derogatory about other members.we were told each meeting, who was to lead the "circle" in prayer the next meeting. the lucky stiff got to observe a sexual fast for the whole month.
after the meeting,they would bring out a table full of goodies, and we got to quell our hunger.
We were supposed to learn the deeeep things of the kingdom, some times it got pretty deep.

uncaduff.

bbgae said...

I heard that Joseph Smith was a free mason and his last words, "O, Lord, my God," was the freemason's cry for help. If it's only one word, I guess I heard wrong.

The music to that vid was creepy. It kinda grates on your nerves. I didn't see any signs that I recognized, but I didn't hold the priesthood or go to super secret meetings, so I am unqualified to answer your question.

I will say, though, that the "loins' paw" or whichever name that one was. is similar to the secret handshake that was used when I was married. And I do know when Warren asked the elders to pledge to live the untited order a few years back, he had them "raise their hand to the square" while they pledged. There is nothing complicated about that one, you just raise your right hand and bend your elbow so your arm is at a right angle and hold the palm open and out- kind of like when you swear on the Bible in court.

I have a question- in the movie 'From Hell' with Jonny Depp and Heather Grahm, there are freemasons. Is any of what they portray about them true? (excluding, of course the Jack the Ripper bit because that was just put in to make the story good, I think.)

bbgae said...

I couldn't read too much about the OT either. All the super secret alien words started to give me a headache.

ATAR_i said...

Ewww - now I have to google 'from hell' and see a clip - I don't recall ever seeing it.

I've asked my mother to have dad write the word down on a paper, seal it in an evelope, and I will read it after he dies - that way - we're all good. My mom says she doesn't think he'll go for it.

bbgae said...

Beware, Atari! 'From Hell' is a full length movie. I think it is R. I assumed you'd seen it, or I wouldn't have reffered you to it. Sorry. :) It is far more than EWWW!. It is downright disturbing. This is one of those movies that I had to hide behind my man's back to make it through the whole thing to the end. I think it's only about five years old or so. It should be at any movie store but I recomend watching it in full daylight, or if you're like me and you have to wait until the kids are in bed, definatly not alone after dark! Then, again, you might not be as squeemish as I am.

ATAR_i said...

OK gotta see this movie this weekend!

bbgae said...

Totally! I'll see what I can do.

BTW- the freemason part is the surpirse at the end of 'from hell' and the above advice is in case you can't find the right clip. :)

Of course, there is always fast forward.....

Anonymous said...

Free Masonary

http://utlm.org/onlinebooks/captmorgansfreemasonrycontents.htm

Master Mason ...."The sign is given by raising both hands and arms to the elbows, perpendicularly, one on each side of the head, the elbows forming a square. The words accompanying this sign, in case of distress, are, "O Lord, my God! is there no help for the widow's son?" As the last words drop from your lips, you let your hands fall, in that manner best calculated to indicate solemnity. King Solomon is said to have made this exclamation on the receipt of the information of the death of Hiram Abiff. Masons are all charged never to give the words except in the dark, when the sign cannot be seen.
Here Masons differ very much; some contend that Solomon gave this sign and made this exclamation when in formed of Hiram's death, and work accordingly in their lodges. Others say the sign was given and the exclamation made at the grave, when Solomon went to raise Hiram, and, of course, they work accordingly; that is to say, the Master who governs the lodge, holding the latter opinion, gives the sign, etc., at the grave, when he goes to raise the body, and vice versa.
The Due Guard is made by holding both hands in front, palms down, as shown in cut [see pict. 1], and alludes to the manner of holding the hands while taking the obligation of Master Mason.

A very small proportion of Masons, comparatively speaking, ever advance any further than the third degree, and consequently never get the great word which was lost by Hiram's untimely death. Solomon, king of Israel; Hiram, king of Tyre, and Hiram Abiff; the widow's son having sworn that they nor neither of them would ever give the word except they three were present; [and it is generally believed that there was not another person in the world at that time that had it], consequently the word was lost, and supposed to be forever; but the sequel will show it was found after the lapse of four hundred and seventy years; notwithstanding the word Mah-hah-bone,
A very small proportion of Masons, comparatively speaking, ever advance any further than the third degree, and consequently never get the great word which was lost by Hiram's untimely death. Solomon, king of Israel; Hiram, king of Tyre, and Hiram Abiff; the widow's son having sworn that they nor neither of them would ever give the word except they three were present; [and it is generally believed that there was not another person in the world at that time that had it], consequently the word was lost, and supposed to be forever; but the sequel will show it was found after the lapse of four hundred and seventy years; notwithstanding the word Mah-hah-bone.

Read this site. It is very informative.

Anonymous said...

Free Masonary

http://utlm.org/onlinebooks/captmorgansfreemasonrycontents.htm

Master Mason ...."The sign is given by raising both hands and arms to the elbows, perpendicularly, one on each side of the head, the elbows forming a square. The words accompanying this sign, in case of distress, are, "O Lord, my God! is there no help for the widow's son?" As the last words drop from your lips, you let your hands fall, in that manner best calculated to indicate solemnity. King Solomon is said to have made this exclamation on the receipt of the information of the death of Hiram Abiff. Masons are all charged never to give the words except in the dark, when the sign cannot be seen.
Here Masons differ very much; some contend that Solomon gave this sign and made this exclamation when in formed of Hiram's death, and work accordingly in their lodges. Others say the sign was given and the exclamation made at the grave, when Solomon went to raise Hiram, and, of course, they work accordingly; that is to say, the Master who governs the lodge, holding the latter opinion, gives the sign, etc., at the grave, when he goes to raise the body, and vice versa.
The Due Guard is made by holding both hands in front, palms down, as shown in cut [see pict. 1], and alludes to the manner of holding the hands while taking the obligation of Master Mason.

A very small proportion of Masons, comparatively speaking, ever advance any further than the third degree, and consequently never get the great word which was lost by Hiram's untimely death. Solomon, king of Israel; Hiram, king of Tyre, and Hiram Abiff; the widow's son having sworn that they nor neither of them would ever give the word except they three were present; [and it is generally believed that there was not another person in the world at that time that had it], consequently the word was lost, and supposed to be forever; but the sequel will show it was found after the lapse of four hundred and seventy years; notwithstanding the word Mah-hah-bone,
A very small proportion of Masons, comparatively speaking, ever advance any further than the third degree, and consequently never get the great word which was lost by Hiram's untimely death. Solomon, king of Israel; Hiram, king of Tyre, and Hiram Abiff; the widow's son having sworn that they nor neither of them would ever give the word except they three were present; [and it is generally believed that there was not another person in the world at that time that had it], consequently the word was lost, and supposed to be forever; but the sequel will show it was found after the lapse of four hundred and seventy years; notwithstanding the word Mah-hah-bone.

Read this site. It is very informative.

Anonymous said...

Sorry folks. I got carried away with the double post.

I cannot delete.

But I will include this, hopefully once.

"William Morgan became a Mason in Rochester in 1823, but found himself excluded from the Batavia chapter . . . he wrote the Illustrations of Masonry and arranged for its publication by the Batavia Advocate press. The secret leaked out however, whereupon the unfortunate author suffered a series of mysterious persecutions. First the authorities held him briefly on a debt claim, so that his lodgings could be searched for the manuscript. On September 8, 1826. parties of strangers, apparently from Buffalo, Lockport, and Canandaigua, began appearing in town. Their attempt at arson on the print shop failed. Then a trumped-up charge demanded Morgan's presence for trial in Canandaigua. While in jail there awaiting his hearing, he was kidnapped on the evening of September 12. His captors drove him in a curtained carriage through Rochester, by the Ridge Road to Lewiston, and thence to the Fort Niagara powder magazine. He may after a time have been released across the Canadian border. More probably he was tied in a weighted cable, rowed to the center of the Niagara River at its junction with Lake Ontario, and dropped overboard. In any case, it cannot be proved that he was ever seen again".

" 'BEWARE OF SECRET COMBINATIONS.'

"These are the dying words of General George Washington . . . there is something in the principles of masonry that tends to distract the mind and lead to the perpetration of CRIMES . . .

bbgae said...

Thanx for the info, 8;35

That answerd my main question about the freemasons. I did not know George washington said that. It's an interesting thing to know.

When I hear about freemasons it always reminds me of a syaing about secret combinations, too.

That was just of "From Hell'. The prince of England had a child with a prostitute. She didn't know he was the prince. She thinks he's just a lord or rich merchant or somwething. Anyway, the Queen finds out her heir is the child of a prostitute (I forget how) so she askes hert friend to fix the problem for her. The man she askes to help her is a freemason. So he murders the prostitute and all her little prostitute friends in a very ritualistic and gruesome mannor.... It shows the freemasons preforming some of their rites and telling the new members what terrible things will happen to them if they are unfaithful. Because Jack causes a scandal, the freemasons have him labotomized so it cannot be traced back to them.

Anonymous said...

George Washington was a freemason, as was Thomas Jefferson.

Anonymous said...

I guess old George was speaking from experience.

bbgae said...

Looks like he would know....

bbgae said...

Anon 2/17 9:51- I thought they couldn't try someone if what they had done waws not against the law at the time the person had done it, either. If that's the case with Dale, he's probabally told hie attorney by now.

Doesn't that trail start next week?

Every one of my brother-in-laws could be in the same boat as Dale- they married my sisters before they were eighteen with parental consent as well. Before the law was changed.

I think only one of them would really deserve it, though, and he was smart enough to not get my sister pregnant until she was eighteen so there would be no case.

TBM said...

Atar_i 9.16 Perhaps someone can tell if any of those gestures are in the mormon cerimonies as well.
Okay, it's taken me a while to start reading this thread, thank you for showing that video on Masonic gestures, given the debate we had a while back. (Before your time, I think, bbgae)

Two of those signs had a passing resemblance to the signs of the LDS temple, but were not identical. The similarity was not close enough that it couldn't simply be coincidental. The rest of the signs bore no resemblance to any part of the temple ceremonies.

Raising your arm to the square is a common enough gesture when swearing an oath. Like bbage said, it's used in court. It's commonly used in militaries.

I don't think I can go into any deeper detail than that, but I hope that answers your question.

ATAR_i said...

on utube they have a masonic wedding in the temple. I couldn't see much, looked like a hidden cam, and it was not in english.

Too bad, would have been interesting to hear the words.

bbgae said...

That would have been very interesting.

I didn't realize thay had temples or preformed marriages. I thought they were more of a super-secret club for men.

bbgae said...

Western Precision building was sold today at action for $1.65 million. It was bought by Champion Safe of Provo. They will manufacture gun safes and plan to hire 75 to 100 people.

Anonymous said...

Good, maybe now they can finally move all those guns and explosives out of the cave. Hehehe

Anonymous said...

Labor Dept.: Colorado City contractor pays $350,000 in back wages
The Associated Press
KOLD-TV News 13 - Tucson, AZ
Originally broadcast February 27, 2007
PHOENIX The Labor Department says an investigation it launched has led to a northwestern Arizona contractor paying 350-thousand dollars in back wages. The beneficiaries, it says, are close to 270 laborers and carpenters. They had been employed by Grayeagle Construction to help build staff housing at a comprehensive care facility in Fort Defiance, on the Navajo Reservation. The Labor Department says its investigators concluded that Grayeagle, which is based outside Colorado City, didn't pay the workers prevailing wages or overtime.

Trouble in paradise.
Centennial Park

This corporation Gray Eagle Construction Corp. is registered to Robert Timpson of 75 W TAYLOR CT, Centennial Park, AZ. Also, Tish Pledger of Hurricane, Utah is listed as secretary.
The corporation is dissolved as of Feb. 15, 2007; failed to file annual reports.

bbgae said...

Hey! You don't have to give their nams and addresses! Help Administrator!

Anonymous said...

It is public record. Not hard to locate.

bbgae said...

Ok. :)

At least the workers are supposed to get their money now.

Too bad they haven't do an investigation into Western Precision's paid wages. I know they donated their workers' checks to the prophet and keep a little store house of their own for their workers to get food from when they needed it. I do not know if any evidence could be found.

Anonymous said...

FLDS are good at hiding evidence and making allegations look like "apostate lies".

Anonymous said...

bbgae; did your husband once work for Western P?

bbgae said...

yes, he did.

Anonymous said...

Arizona Corporation Commission
02/28/2007 State of Arizona Public Access System 6:50 PM



Corporate Inquiry
File Number: -1006554-5 AD-DISSOLVED-FILE ANNUAL REPORT 02/15/2007
Corp. Name: GRAY EAGLE CONSTRUCTION, INC.



Domestic Address UNDELIVERABLE DOMESTIC ADDRESS
% GRAY EAGLE CONSTRUCTION INC
1605 S BERRY KNOLL BLVD
CENTENNIAL PARK, AZ 86021


Second Corp. Address PO BOX 1907
CENTENNIAL PARK, AZ 86021


Statutory Agent Information Agent Name: TISH PLEDYER

Agent Mailing/Physical Address:
UNDELIVERABLE AGENT ADDRESS
75 W TAYLOR CT
CENTENNIAL PARK, AZ 86021

Agent Status: APPOINTED 08/24/2004
Agent Last Updated: 10/13/2006


Officer and Director Information Name: ROBERT TIMPSON
Title: PRESIDENT
Address: P O BOX 1482
CENTENNIAL PARK, AZ 86021
Date Assigned: 11/29/2004 Last Updated: 12/10/2004

Name: TISH PLEDGER
Title: SECRETARY
Address: 4075 M T ZION DR
HURRICANE, UT 84737
Date Assigned: 11/29/2004 Last Updated: 12/10/2004



Additional Corporate Information Corporation Type: BUSINESS
Incorporation Date: 10/23/2001 Corporate Life Period: PERPETUAL
Domicile: ARIZONA County: MOHAVE
Approval Date: 10/23/2001 Original Publish Date: 03/31/2003
Status: AD-DISSOLVED-FILE ANNUAL REPORT Status Date: 02/15/2007

Anonymous said...

Hey,
Are these the same Centennial Park people who say NO ABUSE HAPPENS IN OUR COMMUNITY????

Looks like some MAJOR abuse recently happened to 270 people in their community.

Anonymous said...

If you ever listen, they have said that abuse happens in all segments of human society. That is a fact-for your community as well. How would you even know where these 270 workers came from?
It is so easy to come on these blogs and talk about things you know nothing about.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Anon, you are right.

Let me rephrase the comment above.

A company based in Centennial Park, Arizona was caught cheating 270 workers out of their fair wages.

It is not known how many of these 270 innocent victims were actually members of the Centennial Park polygamous community.


And you are also correct about abuse happening in every community. The main difference is that in my community, it is reported to law enforcement or another government agency, who handles the crime in a non-biased manner. In your community it is reported to the church officials who may not handle the crime in a non-biased manner.

This I DO KNOW ABOUT!

Anonymous said...

So let me get this straight anon 10:12. ALL abuse in your community is reported to law enforcement? Please tell me, where do you live? Because that's a first.

And as the blogger before you stated, noone in CP said that abuse doesn't happen there. But they are saying that it doesn't happen there anymore than it does where you live.....and that's a truth no matter how much you want to deny it.

Anonymous said...

1 or 1000 workers.

The fact is they tried to go around the labor laws.
They got caught.

You can bid cheap, if you don't pay your workers their due.

Anonymous said...

So do the actions of Gray Eagle Corp reflect on whole of Centennial Park?

There are people that frequent this blog that desperately want to see anything negative about CP be well publicized. I would like it if one of you who fits this description could tell me why.

Interesting to me that you're knitpicking on a little town of about 1500 people when a city, who's vice, sin, and organized crime, goes virtually umatched, is a couple hours away westbound on I-15.

Anonymous said...

Dear 1:55 p.m.

You don't understand, CC, Hildale and Centennial Park are supposed to be "GOD's Perfect Saints".

They should act like it.

Anonymous said...

Plus 1:55 p.m. The owners of this corporation are probably community leaders or worse members of the "priesthood" and visable in the church.

If you lie, you will steal or visa versa.

Never ending circle.

Anonymous said...

Annon 5:36
Whether CC,CP or Hildale are "God's perfect Saints" is not for you to judge or anyone else but God himself.
You do not know the facts, but are standing in judgement. What does that say about you.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 3/01/2007 12:28 PM ...

So let me get this straight anon 10:12. ALL abuse in your community is reported to law enforcement? Please tell me, where do you live? Because that's a first.

And as the blogger before you stated, noone in CP said that abuse doesn't happen there. But they are saying that it doesn't happen there anymore than it does where you live.....and that's a truth no matter how much you want to deny it.


Please go back and carefully read my post made at 3/01/2007 10:12 AM

And you are also correct about abuse happening in every community. The main difference is that in my community, it is reported to law enforcement or another government agency, who handles the crime in a non-biased manner. In your community it is reported to the church officials who may not handle the crime in a non-biased manner.

At NO time did I say that ALL abuse is reported in my community. What I DID say is that the abuse "is reported to law enforcement or another government agency, who handles the crime in a non-biased manner."

It would certainly be a utopia if ALL abuse was reported. Better yet, it would be a utopia if there was NO abuse at all!!!!

However, I truly believe that in your community abuse is usually reported to the church officials instead of law enforcement authorities or other government agencies and that these abuses may not always be handled in a non-biased manner that protects the VICTIM instead of the PERPETRATOR.

I found your comment "that it doesn't happen there anymore than it does where you live.....and that's a truth no matter how much you want to deny it." curious.

I don't understand your saying that I am in denial of this, as you accuse me of being. WHERE HAVE I DENIED ANYTHING?

Statisticly no more or no less abuse occurs in your community than it does in mine.

I am open to correction on my beliefs; can you please tell me the percentage of reports to law enforcement or other government agencies of abuses that have occured in Centennial Park over the past 5 years and we can compare them to other communities to see if the numbers are in balance?

Or just tell me the number of cases reported to law enforcement or other outside government agencies and I can figure out the ratio based on the population count.

The abuses should be exponentially related to the population of the community.

But I don't believe that the reports of abuse in Centennial Park are exponentially related to the population of the community. Or, are they routinely made to the proper authorities, as required by law.

To my knowledge, in your community it is reported to the church officials who may not handle the crime in a non-biased manner and/or in the best interest of the victim.

But, give me the reportintg statistics and PROVE ME WRONG!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 3/01/2007 7:11 PM said...

Whether CC,CP or Hildale are "God's perfect Saints" is not for you to judge or anyone else but God himself.
You do not know the facts, but are standing in judgement. What does that say about you.

Yes, I do know the facts and these people are not "God's perfect Saints".

And God will tell them himself when He stands in judgement of them.

Anonymous said...

Anon 3/01/2007 1:55 PM said

There are people that frequent this blog that desperately want to see anything negative about CP be well publicized. I would like it if one of you who fits this description could tell me why.

Did you see the show PrimeTime a couple of weeks ago?

What kind of Public Relations ploy does Centennial Park Action Committee have to get on PrimeTime?

Some of the residents of Centennial Park are more concerned about their "image" than protecting their "victims".

Do you want me to start naming victims, or exposing lies and other inconsistancies that weren't shown on TV?

Anonymous said...

It is hard enough in a civilized population of one man and one woman marriage to keep abuse abated. Polygamous situations compounds the abuse problem for the women and children, especially hidden under the blanket of a religious freedom. This is a fact.

If people are really honest, polygamy breeds and harbors pedophilia. Maybe there are honest and pure plural marriages out there, but for the sake of the children,who monitors polygamous relationships especially as a religious tenet?
If you decriminalize polygamy, who is going to monitor that law and how many wives are enough?

Anonymous said...

"Do you want me to start naming victims, or exposing lies and other inconsistancies that weren't shown on TV?"

Yes, I do. Maybe not the names, but the inconsistencies for sure. I saw so many myself and I would like to compare notes.

Anonymous said...

"So do the actions of Gray Eagle Corp reflect on whole of Centennial Park?"

"No, but your reactions to them do. We're not saying you're all abusers, but at this point, it's pretty obvious that you're all perpetrator protectors - which makes you just as bad. You protect the men and the church more than your children. And this incident is pretty telling about the leadership of your community - after all, this your "prophet's" son who cheated all these people isn't it? Yep, he is.

bbgae said...

Anon- the actions of the owners of Grey Eagle were the responsibility of the individuals alone.

To say that his wrongs are the responsibility of the other people living there is ludicrous.

Stop stereotyping.

If your neighbor had crooked buisness dealings, will you go to jail for him? If what you are saying is true, you should. After all, he lives in the same neighborhoood as you do. You must be guilty, too.

Religion has absolutely nothing to do with this. There is not one religion, organization, or human gathering of any kind, without a few undiscovered crooked characters.

That's life. Get over it.

Have you lived in a plural situation? If you have not, you cannot say it is a breading ground for sin or law breaking because you are basing your judgment on second nad third hand information.

You do not have a feather to fly on.

And, if you really do have a list of all these innocent victims, why don't you DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT? Instead of yelling at the peolle in C.P. Court cases seem to be popular, just now. I'm sure you could find a lawyer eager to assist you.

Anonymous said...

To bbgae
Amen!

fttc said...

I almost started another thread so as not to change the topic here but it would duplicate on the home page so I retrained myself.

Does anyone know if the company that bought the Western Precision building is going to import employees or are they going to hire all in town poeple? This is the start in the right direction to give the people there some employment where their wages will not be dependant on the hierarchy of the goons.

Anonymous said...

bbgae, your right about the stereotype thing but,(I'll try to avoid stepping on a "APED" here)I think were missing something,all this "working for a cause for nothing"is an artifact of socialism,the concept that we all own everything together,not only neutralizes our desire to preserve that which is our own,but also deprives us of the benefits of the right own ourselves, and our property,these concepts have throughout history,been (aside from slavery)the driving force for progress and social wellbeing. slavery produces a form of progress,but not social wellbeing. experiments in socialism always take the form of voluntary slavery,hence men with family to support,find themselves working for nothing.

(APED)= anti personal explosive device.
uncaduff

ATAR_i said...

fttc - good question - I heard the new owners got a really good deal. My mind is drawling a blank - is the company who purchased it local?

Would this be a second facility for them, or are they moving.

fttc said...

The report I saw said it was a gun safe Mfg. company out of Salt Lake. They said they were going to set up to build the safes there (in CC). The account I saw said they were going to employ 75-100 employees. That is what prompted the question.

feralfem said...

I story I read in The Spectrum said that "Tom Davis, owner of Northwest Land ... purchased the former Western Precision Building in Hildale at auction for $1.65 million.
.....
Davis purchased the building to lease to Champion Safe Company out of Springville. Davis said the company, which manufactures safes, plans to employ between 75 and 150 people and pay wages ranging from $15 to $18 an hour."

feralfem said...

ooops... The story I read....

Bruce Wisan said...

Yesterday I met with the three buyers of the Western Precision building. They wanted background on the building and the community. They wanted to know what kind of reception a company would receive from both the FLDS and non-FLDS. They asked a lot of questions. I think they are good people, but I was a little disappointed when I found out they were investors and that they were not associated with Champion Safe company as I was led to believe while at the auction. Apparently Champion is anxious to lease the building and that may very well happen, but the owners are wondering if there is perhaps another company that would benefit the community more. In other words, there is no final decision yet as to who would move into the building. I did feel that they wanted to do what was right for the community though, and not just stick anybody into the building.

I am anxious to see what tranpires and I will try to give out information as I become aware of new facts.

Anonymous said...

What a great job Bruce, lol, guarding the trusts assets. Then selling a 6 million dollar building for 1.5 I've got to hand it to you, I'm grateful your not guarding my assets.

Anonymous said...

Anon 12:29 PM, where did you get your 6 million dollar figure? By guess or by golly? Give us a source or quitcherbellyakin.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the info Mr. Wisan. I appreciate your willingness to share with us on this forum.

Anonymous said...

6 million is an arbitrary number. I heard the building was worth 2.5 to 3 million. I've taken the tour through it, that sounds closer to the truth.

Anonymous said...

bbgae said..."Have you lived in a plural situation? If you have not, you cannot say it is a breading ground for sin or law breaking because you are basing your judgment on second nad third hand information.

You do not have a feather to fly on".

Just so you know, I have two fully feathered wings to fly on. And if I was living next door to someone who I knew was cheating people, then, yes, it would be my responsibility to report him. These people aren't just living next door, they're closely intertwined.

Bruce Wisan said...

Anon 12:29
I usually don't like to get into arguments with people on this blog, but in this case I will make an exception. I had a recent broker opinion of value prepared that gave a value of $2.15 million. Western Precision had an MAI appraisal prepared in November of 2004 that valued the building in the $1.5 million range. Of course that was 2 years ago. There is no question that the building would be worth a lot more in Las Vegas or even St. George. Remember the keys to real estate value are location, location, and location. For some strange reason values in the Community are affected by the location. I think the sale price of the Western Precision Building was on the low side, but it was acceptable under the circumstances. The $6 million figure you quote was from an auctioneer that was trying to hype the building during the auction. My thinking on the sale of the building (and you were apparently there so you saw that I took a 5 minute break to speak with the high bidder before I accepted his bid)was that although the price was a little low, they would bring jobs into the community. Waiting to get a little higher price on the building could be risky in terms of the ultimate price and when, if ever, and the community would not be benefiting. If I had to do it all over again, I would definitely do the same thing today. You may still not agree with my thinking, but at least you have a few more facts to digest.

ATAR_i said...

Wisan - you're a credit to your position - nice job.

Anonymous said...

If you think that 1.5M is low, just wait a few years. If warren does not get convitcted and sent to jail for a substantial number of years, the FLDS will be commanded to reject any jobs that any outside business may offer. And the business that sets up shop will have to deal with the Hildale town council, which should be interesting because they may not grant a business license to an outside company. Yes, the lawsuits will be filed one after another and things could get ugly. Taxpayers will foot the bill, and in the end the building will be sold dirt cheap.

They should re-sell it to JT for 1.6-1.7 right now. He could find a business to operate there and fill it with 2nd ward workers (and a few select 1st warders). The only workers you'll get to travel to CC for $15/hr from Hurricane or St. George are the people who can't get hired in their own towns. And the city taxes will be outrageous because they still need to pay for the power generator.

LTG

furnace said...

Are you sure that all the city's taxes for the power plant went to the power plant and that some didn't go to building up the electrical grid at YFZ?

Anonymous said...

Who audit's the City of Hildale and Colorado City's books?


It is all public record, furnace.

Even how much the police officers make.

Ask to see all the financial statements and ask to see the payments made to the power plant.

Are they still holding city council meetings?

furnace said...

Actually, that was a rhetorical question, because I know the answer.

Anonymous said...

anon 11:05 Don't worry he will

Anonymous said...

"if you build it, they will come"

Not to worry, if someone is offering $15 per hour local jobs there will be plenty of takers. People will drive for 2 hours to for that. Fredonia, Kanab, St. George, anywhere in Southern Utah would be viable.

So... I will believe it when I see it.

bbgae said...

uncaduff- You do not need to worry about APED's with me. I like you! And I do not think you could say anything that would offend me. What I have read of your posts seem quite sensible.
I unintentionally put a little too much energy into my last post.
You were right about my view on Grey Eagle, though. I was going off the assumption that the workers were unknowingly cheated. If it is a similar thing happening there as with Western P. then that is an entirely different matter, altoghter.

Does anyone KNOW if what happened at Grey Eagle was some form of 'priesthood' obligation, or 'united order'?

Anon 3/7, 2:15- I apologize for the personal insult. I was extremely angry with someone I have here with me and I unintentionally let some of that energy seep into my last post.
However, if your knowlege of personal expierence is not form the workers or their fmailies, it might not be relivant to this circumstance.
I am interested in the reasons why your view on this is what it is, if you would care to enlighten me.
You are right about it being the responsibility of others to report it if they see or know of something illegal happening. And, I agree that the people in C. P. are closely intertwined.
As for not having a feather to fly on- I still say that second and third hand information is not always reliable, and can usually only apply to that unique circumstance. But, I will now take the oppertunity to say that I do not know anyone in C. P. so that means I don't have anything go on, either. And yet... here I am, defending them! :)

I guess my biggest issue I have with this is if someone says something about someone else, it had beter be true! I have personal expierence of being falsly accused and it really irks me if someone points a finger at someone else without good hard facts behind their view.

Mr. Wiasn- Thankyou so much for choosing to keep us informed. I think you are doing an admirable job!
As for the new owners of the W.P. building, I agree with what the others said. They don't have alot to worry about unless Warren tellls the people to boycott the buisness, or he is freed and the cities consequently begin to make life difficult. But there is time, still before any of that could happen. I think as long as there are jobs available, there will be workers. We are all pretty excited about that prospect. I do not think the new owners have alot to worry about yet.

Anonymous said...

The location will take care of itself.It is closer to national parks than dixie and alot closer to lake powell.give it time.

Anonymous said...

I do hope the best for any business that locates in CC. Where I live, the teenager across the street won't mow lawns for less than $20 (which takes about 45 minutes for my lawn, and yes, I think he ought to go without eating for a day or two so he can appreciate the value of money a little better, but until then, I keep the blades on the mower sharp).

I can't see people driving from St.George...but maybe this will start to turn things around. If wages are that low then (despite what warren commands) people will want to stay at home and make $15/hr instead of driving to St.George or Mesquite for the same amount.

LTG

Anonymous said...

I've mowed lawns for less.Look at the mountains. Texas does not have what you have.People will come

Anonymous said...

To annon with so much to say about CP and Grey Eagle...Do you honestly have nothing better to do than peruse public files for information on alleged corupt polygamous business? You sound like a fairly articulate person, take that and go do something good with it in your own community. Rather quit trying to be the judge and jury on a situation you know little about. And yes no matter how much you come on here and spout "facts" the only "fact" is you know second hand or even third hand information. In close..if workers were kept from fair wages they have many choices of their own on how to handle the situation. Let the them and the authorities handle it.
As for the subject on abuse among polygamists in CP. You try to intimidate people with your big talk
" I am open to correction on my beliefs; can you please tell me the percentage of reports to law enforcement or other government agencies of abuses that have occured in Centennial Park over the past 5 years and we can compare them to other communities to see if the numbers are in balance?

Or just tell me the number of cases reported to law enforcement or other outside government agencies and I can figure out the ratio based on the population count.

The abuses should be exponentially related to the population of the community."
If numbers are the only thing you are concerned with then you show no true desire for correction.
I get exhausted with the rants and raves of individuals on this blog that try to convince the rest of us of how much you know and in the process you show us just how much you DON'T know.

Anonymous said...

If this blog exhausts you so, why don't you take your self-righteous, holier-than-thou butt somewhere less offensive. No one here is twisting your arm, or better yet, holding your family hostage to keep you from leaving.

Thus saith the Lord of Hosts
And it came to pass
Amen

bbgae said...

2:00- You call 9:57 self riteous, and then sign your post as "The Lord of Hosts'?!
Hmmmmm.....

Anonymous said...

Sounds like I hit a nerve...shame

bbgae said...

Hadrly.

I've lived my whole life areound men like that. What's one more?

bbgae said...

Forgive my spelling errors... it is late and I am tired... :)

Anonymous said...

It's ok, we are used to your terrible spelling no matter what time it is. Don't you have a spell-check? (just joking!!) (smile!) :)

Anonymous said...

3/10/2007 9:57 AM

You have made a few incorrect assumptions here.

1. I am not the person who "peruse public files for information on alleged corupt polygamous business". Someone else did that and posted that information.

But to me the article posted at 2/27/2007 11:41 PM sounded like the Department of Labor found Gray Eagle did not pay about 270 workers the right wages or overtime pay. That DOES sound like a corrupt business to me. And that also sounds like the authorities (Labor Department NOT the Priesthood) DID do something about it.

Also the fact that one of the owners of Gray Eagle is the son of the "prophet" speaks volumes to me. How righteous is he? Are you upset because a company he owns did not pay about 270 workers the right wages, or are you upset because the company got caught, or are you upset because the son of the "prophet" got exposed.

And FYI I did not make the post saying he is the son of the "prophet" either - it was someone else.

2. How do you know that I "come on here and spout "facts" the only "fact" is you know second hand or even third hand information?" How do you know it is not first hand information?

3. The number of abuses that have been reported is not the only thing I am interested in. But the numbers reported in comparison to the population should be a similar ratio to other communities. I don't think they are though because I don't think that the abuses are always being reported to the legal authorities. I think that IF an abuse is reported, it is more than likely reported to the Priesthood.

I would just like to have someone from Centennial Park provide the numbers and I can see for myself if my beliefs about this are true or not.

Why not do this? What does Centennial Park have to hide?

bbgae said...

1:35- Once again, I apologize about the fact vs. second hand knowledg thing. You are right, I do not know your sources.

Maybe you could sign something at the bottom of your posts so I don't get you confused the other and numerous anonymouses? Something impersonal and harmless?

If truth be told, I was more upset the workers were not paid what they were owed. And, the fact that the 'prophet's' son is one of the owners does point to something suspicious. (I though the people in C. P. didn't believe in the one man rule. They have more than one prophet, don't they?)

Lastly- and I put this in my other post, but it was erased and I had to start over, forgetting it- I honestly don't care that much which way this particular discussion ends.

It is not a big deal to me.

So, I will end my part in it so someone from C.P. who knows can answer your questions. :)

Anonymous said...

I am confused because I was replying to Anon 3/10/2007 9:57 AM

Now Bbgae is replying to my reply post to 3/10/2007 9:57 AM.

Bbgae, are you the same person who posted as Anon 3/10/2007 9:57 AM?

Anyway Bbgae, I will take your suggestion and sign with an indentifier so it will help to keep posters clear. That was a good idea that you had.

OWIC

bbgae said...

No. It was not me. :)

Sorry, if I was butting in on your conversation.

ATAR_i said...

bbgae cute sounds a little forrest gump - 'sorry to ruin your black panter party' (or something like that).

I totally love it!

Anonymous said...

Haha you're killing me anon. I really find it tiring to lead you to understand things you never will. How can I? That's asking far too much of a simple mind like yours. Does that phrase ....casting pearls before swine mean anything to you? I think it's better for me and my own sanity to leave your questions..just that, questions.

bbgae said...

12:55- IF the other anon (Owic?) really is simple minded, so much so, as not to be able to understand you, than the scrpiture you quoted applies to you.

Anon would then be the 'swine' and it would be your 'pearls'. You are preaching to yourself on that one.

Anonymous said...

BBGAE so now YOUR the moral compus for us all.. haha I don't buy your garbage.

Anonymous said...

Okay, so whose garbage DO you buy?

Anonymous said...

Her own, of course! There's not room for anything else.....

bbgae said...

I am no paragon. i HAVE ben known to be wrong, and I will admit it. :)

Anonymous said...

give it a rest please . back to the subject at hand please.

Anonymous said...

So... is there anyone else from C.P. who knows (besides anonymous who won't say) what really happened with the Grey Eagle?

And, is there an ETA for the new buisness to come to Colorado City?

Anonymous said...

Grey Eagle got into trouble for not paying overtime to its workers. Whether it was on purpose or their unfamiliarity with Labor Laws (keep in mind this was a massive project they were doing) I don't know. They got their perverbial butts handed to them in that they owed $230,000 and had to pay $350,000. This is second hand information so take it for what it is worth.

I live in CP. I go to church in CP. You have people that make horrible decisions all the time. I know of a couple of people in my town that have made stupid buisness decision, and have had to file for bankruptcy. We even have a guy that ran some pyramid scheme and now will probably serve jail time for it. Does that mean it is church sponsored stupidity? No, it just means people (for whatever reason) make poor choices, but they get to live with the consquences of their actions as we are seeing.

You screw up this badly then you will pay for it. Grey Eagle paid for it, it was the finacial ruin of that company, but it was their own doing whether by stupidity or "evil intentions".

There will be those that want to throw all of us from CP in the same pot no matter what I say, but for those that have sense enough to realize that you can't paint everyone with the same brush, they will get some good out of it. It is the same thing with the people in CC. There are people over their that are good people, and because of the actions of some criminals (Flora's Dad, Dan Barlow Jr, etc) then the mob wants to burn the whole city down. The people over there for the most part are good, hard working, family people, however misguided anyone thinks they are.

I'm droning... hope this helps... flamers start your engines....

bbgae said...

7:27-
That was very nicely put. Thankyou! I also think there ARE good people in C.P. and C. C. I do not like to quote scrpiture, but I think this might apply:

"Man should be punished for his own sins..."

I think that is what you meant by 'Not painting everybody with the same brush' and it was what I meant in my earlier post whaen I said 'Stop stereotyping.'

bbgae said...

I meant 7:29, not 7:27. I also meant 'when.' :)

Anonymous said...

Good to see Brother Wisan commenting on these boards! I'm wondering if he can tell us or "disclose" what his personal sells commission on Western Percision Building is?

PB

Anonymous said...

Polygomous Bob why don't you ask Wisan yourself if you are so concern. It is public record.

Wisan hired an auction company to hold the sale. I am sure they got a commission.

Wisan or an attorney will get paid for doing the legal work on the sale of the property, but someone has to do that.

Maybe you should go to school and become an accountant or an attorney and offer your services for free to the community.

Warren is the boogy man here. He should of answered his summons instead of ignoring them.

Warren gave Shortcreek away and now the community has to live in the real world with attorneys and accountants who get paid.

bbgae said...

Yes, Warren is the boogy man of C.C.
But, he didn't give it away. Are you kidding??!! He had to fleece it first!
I think it simply got too big for the measure of controll he wanted to have over it (as The All Powerful God) so he simply took what and who he wanted and left the rest to their fate. Aaanndd... He was under pressude to fulfil the prophecy of the 'Lifting up" where "One will be taken, and the other left."

Anonymous said...

I'm referring to a sales commission. I heard he got a sales commission of selling that building. I am wondering if someone who is in "the know" can tell me if that is true. Thanks and Good Day.
PB

Anonymous said...

PB
Ask Mr. Wisan yourself.
bwisan@wsrp.com

Anonymous said...

Bruce Wisan is probably the most power hungriest of them all! I have no idea why he would even wamt to get involved with any of it! I mean really, think about it!