Saturday, September 23, 2006

Is This True? No More Schooling in CC???

Quote from a source on 'another' forum:

"I heard through the grapevine that Warren has sent out an edict that he wants no more home schooling there. No more public education, no more private education, no more education PERIOD. That's outrageous. If they are abusing their children, they are giving up their rights. The state needs to go in and test those children rigorously and make sure they're being properly educated."

Can anyone corroborate, refute or rebut?

There are compulsory education laws in all 50 states. Are FLDS homeschooled children required to take standardized achievement tests?


ATAR_i said...

I'm assuming this was on the Aimoo forum - is that so?

How did the source for the post come to have that information?

fttc said...

I am homeschooling my own children. I work with our local district voluntarily. They have never required any testing and I don't believe the state laws require it. I have my children take the standardized tests that the public school students take so I know where I am at with them. When the choice to homeschool is made the parent takes on the responsibility to see to it the children get a comparable education. It has been my experience that many homeschooled children excel in scholastic achievments. I know some of my relatives are still homeschooling their children as I have helped them acquire books for it. I hope the rumor is untrue, but if it is it will give the state more ammunition to use against the FLDS. That said, it makes the case for its truthfulness more credible. warren has a knack for destroying the community.

fttc said...

I meant relatives still in the FLDS.

feralfem said...

Your assumption is correct. The source has many relatives living in CC and was educated there (younger years).

Would love to hear anything about this from desert darling.

feralfem said...

Thanks. I wondered what the rules were in terms of homeschooling requirements. I wonder what differences exist between Arizona and Utah education laws & requirements.

Kudos to you for having your children take the standardized tests. I know they're not the be-all, end-all but at least they provide a measure.

And, you're absolutely right about the ammunition comment.

Anonymous said...

I think someone is misinformed. All the private schools were shut down and all the children are being taught in the home. The children are still being home schooled.

Anonymous said...

According to the information that I read online, state testing is no longer required for home schooled children.

Can you figure out why???

Because the home schooled children are testing higher than the public school children are. Public schools around the country, (not all of them) but the majority of them, have failed. Because there is not enough teachers per student to have a one on one relationship with the students.

Therefore home schooling is becoming more and more popular, the children get the best of both worlds. A teacher who really cares and also gets to spend more time with their parent(s).

Anonymous said...

I pulled two of my children out of a private school, because they were not able to keep up. I home schooled them with the materials that the school provided me(since I paid for it)and had a one on one with these two children. They could understand, and I felt like they learned more than they would have in school. It took about 3 hours out of every morning to go through the paperwork, reading etc..., they both needed "now do this,now do this" but it worked. They were wonderful. And I enjoyed the time together. I am all for home schooling.

I'll tell you one thing, I learned a lot too. It was great.

Anonymous said...

Well found this on the Aimoo site.

I find it hard to believe Yankie found Onethestreet, Iamcurious AKA Tim Stimsky or Josh Anderson.

If this is you Mr. Josh some LE might like to talk to you.

But here is Yankies post.

Date Posted: 09/23/2006 6:06 PM

For sometime now I knew our friend Curious wasn't all that he presented himself as. Our efforts trying to trace him down by way of any computer address was simply like finding a needle in a haystack the way he hopped around from public address to address in such a unpredictable pattern . If anything at all his habits of where he would post from where brillantly unpredictable . Our geeks we hired from the dark side of the Internet and with other friend geeks with info out of aimoo with all the geekisum they could muster could not crack the Curious identity nut .

One of these geeks introduced us to the father of all geeks who had his named changed to Thor Red and claimed to be a direct descendant of Eric the red the Viking. Interesting sort of a fellow he is. Thor felt if we could study and find a pattern of Curious language skills and writing habits using phrases, spelling and favorite wording that Curious would use he alone could do what others could not, bust Cuious's identity. No problem he said. We had our doubts but after he said " no results -- no pay " we went with him .

Thor was truly amazed at all the different writing styles Curious would use and the variety off sources they came from, from really old manuscripts to the latest episode of the Simpson's . We found that Curious had no style of his own , in fact some how Curious had purposefully and quite effectively created a style of his own , which in truth was any and everyone else .

Thor felt he had met his match more then once , perfect confusion and chaos with not one tell tell sign of any pattern with rhyme or reason . " Pure Perfection " is the E mail he would send to us for the first few weeks of his efforts.

As it turned out this perfect chaos Curious developed set himself apart from everybody else on the planet and Thor used this against Curious but instead of tracing Curious from inside of his mind Thor went out side of Curious's mind . His reasoning was he had much more to work with. " Busted " said the next E mail.

Our Curious has his own Web site and has been a very busy boy indeed . If you want to meet Josh and see what all he's been up to you will be impressed but not surprised . For fear of my membership I cant give you his full name but I guess too bend the rules abit I can give you some key words to Google, take a look at what Josh has been up to , You need to read his own story and parts of the book he has put together , believe it or not I do in fact think Curious has two doctorates to his name. Go for it, and try not to laugh ---The Book of Zelph ------- Yup put some fun into Mormonism and loosen up a bit.

feralfem said...

The above (8:20) as reproduced from the aimoo forum is absolutely wonderful tongue-in-cheek only surpassed by The Book of Zelph.

As Yankie says, "Go for it, and try not to laugh..."

Anonymous said...

The book of Zelph is HILARIOUS!!!! I LOVE that someone put forth the effort to bring to the "Latter Day" the same kind of logic that brought us the Book of Mormon.
Kudos to Josh! And BTW, there is no way in hell that Josh is street.

Anonymous said...

Schooling is going on. It is just happening in the home instead of at a private school. The parents still love their children; they are not actively trying to screw up their lives.

ATAR_i said...

Yeah, the son of Abitch is hysterical, and the whores.

Is this just a satire - or was it written sincerely?

feralfem said...

It's sincerely delicious parody.

Utterly hilarious - and probably most fully appreciated by those of us who've grown up with the Book of Mormon. Without a Mormon background it's probably hard to understand a great deal of it and how truly delightful it is.

The guy (Josh Anderson) is really good! He would make Mel Brooks proud.

feralfem said...

Regarding the schooling, one opinion I've noted is that it's possible Warren's goal is to keep everyone at home and very busy - adding homeschooling to their already-busy daily routines. This effectively deprives the various families from meeting together and comparing notes.

Sounds reasonable -- like a Warren-style strategy to me.

Anonymous said...

It was not hard for me to not laugh. This Josh takes blasphemy to new lows.

I'm sure mugs will thinks it's hillarious too, but before you laugh, you should realize that this same kind of mockery could be done with the New Testament as well.

ATAR_i said...

Well - I almost lost my cookies in SLC when I found on the whole religion was based on a moron i

Which, btw - is how I chose my name.

Anonymous said...

Doesn't anyone recognize where son of Abitch bomes from? Split his name into two syllables. It's obvious parody. I didn't notice this until seeing someone pointed that out on the aimoo blog.

Anonymous said...

Anyone wondering whether it's parody or real needs to look at the facsimile from the leather plates. It's obvious parody of the Pearl of Great Price.

muggsey said...

Josh's plays on words show a clever mind. My real concern is with the phrase, in any form. It is a derogatory, rude and downright vulgar term to use because it is used in reference, not so much to the fact that the person addressed is being called a bastard, but that his mother is being called a woman with no morals, who sleeps around and doesn't know who the father of her various children happens to be.

I see it as a vicious effort to make fun of the relationship between child, son or daughter, and their mother. Although I could become rather irritated with my mother at times I was taught from early childhood that being called a S.O.B. rated among the most horrific insults that can be hurled in your directions, and, that it was your responsibility, as a son, to defend your mother's good name.

muggsey said...

Does anyone suspect that the edict to homeschool will minimize the time the children's mothers have to visit and discuss the goings on within FLDS? The women will be tied up with home schooling their children. No pooling of children for the expansion of knowledge is allowed. Less exposure means less speculation, less speculation means less alertness to hints dropped by the father figure members of the priesthood. Therefore, WJ keeps tight reign on the entire group by prohibiting the free flow of information. This shift of responsability to mothers will tie up the older children to take care of the youngest. Therefore every family unit becomes so tightly controlled absolute obedience is achieved. Knowledge by the people is dangerous to a dictator's position. Jeffs cannot afford to allow his flock to think for themselves.

To think for yourself means that you have to assume responsibility for your thoughts and actions. You can't as easily point your finger at someone else in blame for all your difficulties. Isn't that what you do if something the prophet or priesthood instruct you to do? "I just followed orders, I can't be responsible for the outcome."

furnace said...

I posted this in reply to Muggsey 11:24 and somehow the internet scrambled the post into another thread. The 'net was acting weird at the time--probably a network overload. One reason I posted it is because Muggsey sometimes insults the intelligence of the FLDS.


You made a point that made me think a little and realize I need to do better in how I talk about others. It is sad that the FLDS shun us "apostates", but let't not forget that they are our brothers, sisters, in-laws, father and mother (in my case, literally). I should be quicker to defend these people when others on the blog call them derogatory terms.

muggsey said...


I honor your decision to take up for those less capable or unable to voice their opposition to anything I say or, to endorse anything that you think appropriate.Any appropriate comment is welcome. I need to have to think too! The challenge is good exercise, keeps the old brain oiled up and ready for service. Thanks!

Anonymous said...

Back to the topic at hand:

Arizona has the most lenient home-school laws of the fifty states. All a parent has to do is file an affidavit and present the child's original birth certificate for copying at the beginning of home-schooling. There are never any testing requirements for either the parent or the child.

In doing so, the State rightly acknowleges the citizen and family as sovreign, and that the State is there to support the family.

You can always find a horror story or anecdotal failures, but the occurrance rate is MUCH less than public or private schools.

Home-schooled children do not face barriers in society or in admission to college or professions.

"Socialization" is most often presented as the major reason not to home-school. For my family, it is the number one reason why we DO home-school.

I am an LDS home-schooling father (that means I go to work while my wife teaches the children), and my children are highly successful by any measure.

I have a slight concern about the probability of success for families who are ordered to home-school by a religious leader. But I do still support the FLDS people's right to take responsibility for their own families.

The other 49 states should follow Arizona's lead.

Anonymous said...

AMEN to the LDS homeschooler! I have always laughed out loud at people who bring up "socialization" as a barrier to my own homeschooling. I look at them and say, "Oh, do you mean how am I going to expose my kids to gangs, illicit drugs and promiscuous behavior?"
Then they always look uncomfortable and change the subject.
One really interesting fact to note: in my homeschool association, there is a very high ratio of public school teachers whose spouse home-schools their kids. In other words, the teacher sees what is going on in public school and won't have his/her kids be part of that. Interesting.

ATAR_i said...

Interesting article

Utah' s Open Little Secret

Anonymous said...

You may be a home-schooler if....

Your 13-year-old son still hugs his mother and says "I love you!"

Your 12-year-old has never ever heard the "n-word".

You have never felt the need to show your 15-year-old daughter how and why to use a condom.

When your children play with other children, they do not divide up by race.

When your child gets to Composition 101 in college, he tells the professor ON HIS OWN that he finds the theme of some of the books inapporpriate, and will not read them.

Your child is just fine with sneakers that only cost $30 a pair.

Your children argue over which one of them gets to teach their 3-year-old brother how to read.

Your children have learned in their youth both how to learn and how to teach, and the joy of both.

I have never ever told anybody that homeschooling is right for them. Those that are right for homeschooling are led to it on their own. But we have found it to be fulfilling, empowering, enriching, and liberating.

We don't resent the money we pay in taxes for the schooling of other people's children. We don't want any money from the government because it would come with strings and a nose-ring. But we would appreciate it if the government would continue to leave us alone.

LDS Home-schooling father

Anonymous said...

LDS father

No one knows better than you do how to manage your family business. Dr. Laura doesn't, the state government doesn't, etc.

What is needed in America is people like you that take responsibility for their family.

muggsey said...

I don't take issue with the previous statement IF he will do as you suggested. However, if he wants his wife(s) to file claims for social services as a 'single mother' he should be horse whipped.

If he is competent enough to teach his children to pass barrier examinations to indicate that their learning is equal, at least, with public education in their grade level or to excell the same, than power to him. If he sees to it that his children have an opportunity to advance their learning either through standard universities or through trade schools, I applaud his efforts. I don't advocate that he should pick up the tab, necessarily, but he should be knowledgable enough to advise them as to options available.

Fried Female said...

I don't take issue with the previous statement IF he will do as you suggested.

IF he is competent enough to teach his children . . . IF he sees to it that his children have an opportunity to advance their learning. . .

. . .and IF the people in CC are NOT actually teaching, which is much funner to believe, then the government should just RUN in there. But IF they actually are, well, it would be much harder to establish the truth, because the rumors that are floating around are SOOOOOO much more fun to believe. . .
so IF someone were to actually establish facts, then MAYBE this would actually be a topic of conversation.

Anonymous said...

Amen to the "You May Be A Home Schooler If.." poster!! It would be a sad day for Americans if the government took our right to home-school our children away, just because the FLDS may or may not be teaching their children to read and write!!

Come to think of it, there have been other laws passed because of the FLDS and groups like them, that have taken away rights for the rest of us Americans. When are we going to wake up and smell the coffee? (or tea or tobacco ;-) I makee jokee)

The laws that take rights away from those people, also take rights away from us, too!! Hellloo America!! Anyone home? We are starting to boil like a frog!

ATAR_i said...

I've had experience with public, private and homeschool.

I've seen children thrive in all three environments.

Parents playing an active role in their childrens education is a major factor for success. Parental involement doesn't ensure success, just as a certain environment doesn't preclude it.

To all the homeschool, private and public school parents who are participating in their childrens educational success - kudos!

muggsey said...

I still believe that homeschooled individuals should be required to pass the same basic knowledge tests, at grade level, as are required of those in accredited private and public schools.

I too have seen children, who having been home schooled, show higher scores than those in public school. I applaud their efforts as well as those of their parents.

Too often I've witnessed children who are supposedly being home schooled who couldn't even pass the exams designed for children three years their juniors, who, if they wanted to go to college could not even read or understnd the instructions for SAT or any other college entry examination.

This problem exists throughout society, not just in FLDS, so, I'm not picking on you within in particular. However, if the shoe fits- - - - - -

Anonymous said...

Problem, Muggsey.

1. In order to make requirements of homeschooling, government must FUND it. If you'll take notice, no one who is homeschooling is ASKING the government to fund it.

2. When it comes to education laws and standards, the laws are such that people must have ACCESS to education, not that they must be FORCED to education. Huge difference. So in the interests of American liberty and the sacredness of our basic rights and the constitution, we must ensure that laws are not passed which turn our rights into MUSTS. It would not be too far in the future that in our rights to be free and equal as black Americans, white people MUST marry blacks to ensure our rights.

Anonymous said...

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think!

muggsey said...

Let's reverse the problem. Just suppose that blacks were forced to marry whites, what would be the difference? I'll admit that I prefer for myself and family to stay within the racial bounds set by color of skin. In past times, I remember it well, German warbrides were many and American citizens held them in contempt. As time has progressed, and those who had occassion to fight a war against Germans came to accept those of germanic blood. After all, we who have several generations born within this country have ancestry from many European, mid-eastern, native American and oriental parentages. America is a melting pot. There is no reason why the individual can't maintain their own choices and act upon them, and even defend those choices to others within the familial experience to value their heritage, but not at the expense of those from other backgrounds. One of the main issues I find is that children brought into the world from two different ethnic backgrounds may find that they are shunned by both their parents families. Why? Their multi-racial ethnicity is not their fault. We shouldn't demean those of other races. We recognize the differences in culture, familial structure, religion, etc. If such a marriage is successful, hooray! If not, "I told you so" is not even necessary. Those who got "bit" know the bite of the dog very well.

ATAR_i said...

Homeschool funding has been sticky where I am as well. If you get funding, you have less choice of curriculum (if you want to get it covered).

I think at the very least, the public school system should provide a testing resource for homeschool children which allows parents to bring them in at least once a year for some sort of levels testing.

It would help the parents know where they are at, and help them provide appropriate curriculum.

I'm not certain everyone would participate, but it should be available.

Most states make education mandatory, homeschooling flexibility has put a lot of options in parents hands, and marvelous things are happening. In some instances, not so marvelous misuse of this flexibility has led to children not being educated, and no one being aware of it.

All parents who homeschool should be concerned about this. Bad cases, with parents who abuse the flexibility make for restrictions EVEN for the people who are doing a good job.

Anonymous said...

You're certainly right about "children not being educated". But 99.9% of that happens in public schools.

Society makes the assumption that if you delivered your children to the government for educating and something goes wrong, then "at least you did everything you could" for them.

The problem is that a majority of parents can't wait for school to start in the fall, and for the school bus to pick up the children in the morning, because the parents resent the time that they have to spend with their children. And if you think that is bad here in America, it is even worse elsewhere. At least here in America, most parents still pretend to like children.

People have forgotton the joy that can be found in a big, good, old-fashioned family, and are looking elsewhere for fulfillment while failing in their homes.

A Prophet of God once said that "No success in life can compensate for failure in the home". Another said that "The greatest work you will ever do will be within the walls of your own home".

LDS Home-schooling Father

Anonymous said...

LDS - teacher dad:

speak for yourself
my kids (12 & 14) go to public school
...and are doing just fine
as does the majority of their classmates

keep sweet eldorado

Anonymous said...

The anti-FLDS thought process is this:

lying about Santa to your children=good
FLDS not lying about Santa=bad

TV=Bad for children
FLDS getting rid of TV=Bad for children

Covering your body=good
FLDS covering your body=Bad

Learning to work as a young man=good
FLDS young men work=Bad

Home schooling=good
FLDS home schooling=Bad

FLDS religion=bad


Anonymous said...

The anti-FLDS (thought process is this:

lying about Santa to your children=good YOU GOT US ON THIS ONE.
FLDS not lying about Santa=bad

TV=Bad for children BAD FOR ADULTS, ALSO
FLDS getting rid of TV=Bad for children

Covering your body=good I AGREE
FLDS covering your body=Bad

Learning to work as a young man=good

FLDS home schooling=Bad


FLDS religion=bad NOT ALL OF IT




9/27/2006 9:59 PM

CTR You know how I know the Fundalmentalist Mormon/doctrine is wrong from top to bottom.

Brigham Young's revelation on Blood Atonement.

Also, the Bible has many verses in the Old/New Testament about the conduct of prophets, teachers, and leaders of a church.

warren fails on all counts.

ATAR_i said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ATAR_i said...


I don't think that your comments above accurately reflect how most parents feel, and the state of education in most areas.

I've been lucky enough to have my children in all three environments (private, public, homeschool), and you see the same sort of parents in each group.

You can send your kids to private, public and do homeschool and still be lazy, uninvolved, self absorbed, and not give your children what they need to succeed.

The same sort of individuals that populate your community equally populate those three environments. Each environment claims superiority over the other, a superior educational experience, and superior parents and children.

The first time I switched from one environment to another, I was filled with terror for the moral and educational success of my children, certain the new environment would be substandard and detrimental, but circumstances forced the decision despite my reservations.

Imagine my suprise when I found the educational opportunities, intelligence, instruction and environment to be nothing like I expected. The parents to be just like the parents in the other environment, the same mixed group.

Then a few years later, another opportunity, with the same experience. I have had the opportunity to see all three environments, experience all three groups, experience each groups prejudice about the others, and assumptions of superiority.

It's just tired, it's not reality, it's based on what we say to ourselves to say 'we're doing it better than everyone else'.

Children and Parents can fail or succeed in all environments - there is no ONE way to do it right. EVERY PARENT should be able to decide for themselves what is right for them, and their children - AND NO ONE has the moral superiority to state they are doing it wrong (unless they fail to educate a child who is willing to learn and is of normal intelligence).

If you want the freedom to decide - give it to someone else too!

For the childrens sake - there should be some standards - in ALL three environments. Even having those - lazy parents and/or teachers can still frustrate the process.

Lastly CTR - that's just winey.

Anonymous said...

winey little truth

macademia said...

The last word regarding the proliferation of modes of delivering a sound educational program to children: We can opt for public education, private education, elite boarding schools, correspondence education, on-line delivery, homeschool or a dozen other available methods and methodologies. The key is that they are all equally effective, as long as the motivation, supervision, consistent work ethic, and incentives are in place.
However, it is not better teachers, textbooks or curricula that our children need most: it is better childhoods. If we want our children to gain the greatest educational advantage available, we must have the freedom to tailor their educational package to suit their individual, personal learning needs. BUT, we will never see a lasting educational reform, until we first see parent reform.

'nuff said..............

ATAR_i said...

ewww nice!

red rocks girl said...

yep, the rumor is true, no more private schools for the young FLDS just homeschooling-good luck kids!

Anonymous said...

Found this post on Nevada Polygamy.

This poster was quite blunt.

Deep down inside, you ALL know incarceration is the right thing to do. I've heard two arguments in favor of Polygamy, both are moot.

1. Polygamy has been going on for over a hundred years. It is your way of life.

Rebuttal: Cannibalism was a way of life longer than polygamy.
Blacks were treated as slaves for hundreds of years.
Your argument about polygamy is a thinly veiled excuse hiding behind "religion" to satisfy your own personal wants.
This is selfish and blasphemy, not religious.

2. Children appear at a rally to support the practice of Polygamy. Children are taught early in life that polygamy is good and right.

Rebuttal: Back in Germany during the 1930's Adolf Hitler trained children to follow HIS beliefs.
Even today in the Middle East Arab countries children are being taught to hate Americans and even kill us at any price.
Is this "really" the true beliefs of the educated children, or is it merely the "wishes of the elders" combined with the childrens desire to please the parent(s).

Polygamy is truly a selfish practice for the uneducated, and it is a plague upon the tender minds of the innocent children.

BTW... I am not religoius in any form.

I do not have to be a gourmet cook to know what good food is.
I do not have to be an accomplished musician to know what good music is.
I do not have to be a criminal to know what is the wrong thing to do.
I do not have to be a police officer to know when a crime is being committed.

I do not have to be a Rhodes Scholar to know that ALL polygamists are wrong and they refuse to admit it to themselves
and they will hide behind as many veiled excuses they can conjure up to justify themselves.

When people have to "hide" what they are doing, it is because they know they are doing something wrong.

Ted Bundy would hide the bodies of his victims to avoid capture.
Osama Bin Laden went into hiding to avoid responsibility for his actions.

Polygamists hide their actions to avoid responsibility for their actions also.

Anonymous said...

The free blacks had to hide in the South
The Jews had to hide in Germany

etc, ect

ATAR_i said...

Legal arguments that set precedence locally for accomplice to rape. Interesting.

You can either click the link or copy and paste them.
Arizona Cenral, October 1st
Salt Lake Tribune, Sept 2nd

ATAR_i said...

I've been browsing different articles this morning and I had an interesting thought.

Recently the mainstream LDS church has been referring to themselves as Christians. Something they have never done before, and something that bristles Protestants far and wide.

The beliefs are very different.

Thus I can understand how they bristle when FLDS refer to themselves as mormons, because some the beliefs are so different, and becoming more different with each new prophetic revelation.

They can't expect the FLDS to stop doing something they themselves don't want to stop.

Not that I think any of it will change, and we'll all have to live with how we label ourselves and how others label themselves. You can label yourself whatever you want, wether or not it irritates someone else. I just think it's interesting.

Anonymous said...

Basically being Christian means that you accept the New Testament as religious canon. The fundamentalist belief is that Christ lived and was crucified.

Have the Protestants changed that to mean something else?

Claiming someone else isn't Christian because they don't follow your belief exactly is ridiculous.

Being Mormon doesn't necessarily mean LDS membership either. Even the "Fundamentalists" groups have their differences.

rumor-has-it said...

I think that homeschooling is a LOT of work, I love that my kids are in public school. I could handle homeschooling if I had to...but I would rather not. Now my mother had 12 kids, she could not homeschool if her life depended on it. To each their own.
All the "Warrenites" are homeschooling their kids this year, by royal command from Lyle Jeffs. Do I think there are kids that are missing education? YES. 90% of the Lost Boys tested at 3rd Grade level or lower. Are there some that will do OK? YES! There really isn't anything we can do about it other than reach out to them when they decide they have had enough.

desert darling said...

I saw two of the 'priesthood' schools gearing up for classes this weekend.

muggsey said...

10/1 9:20

My Bible agrees that Jesus died and was buried but, the one thing that seems to be overlooked in these posts is the fact, quoted in all four Gospels, Acts, Romans, 1&2 Cor. Gal. Eph. Phill. Col. 1& 2 Thess. 1&2 Tim, Titus, Hebrews, James, 1&2 Peter, 1-2-&3 John, Jude & Rev. JESUS THE CHRIST AROSE FROM THE DEAD. HE CONQUERED DEATH THEN, NOW AND FOREVER. WHY? THAT THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN HIS NAME FOR THEIR SALVATION ARE SAVED IMMEDIATELY AND FOREVER.

muggsey said...

ERROR: Above post intended for 10/1/ 7:21, not rumor-has-it

Anonymous said...

No disagreement there muggsey, but can YOU define "salvation" or "saved immediatly"? I think not.

And please spare me your specultions.

You won't be able to do it without sounding like a "Mormon" I can guarantee that.

Anonymous said...

read the news today?

I wouldn't question any parent that pulled their children out of a public school.

Who know's, maybe Uncle Warren was inspired in doing what he did. Telling parents to school their children at home this year. We don't have high security in out schools either.

I don't need my daughter killed in a public school by some maniac, before I wake to what is really going on.

ATAR_i said...

I wouldn't go so far as to call people ridiculous because they don't like being lumped together with a group they don't particularly care for.

It's not something I was vehement about either (if you take the time to read my post above), it's been happening for ages in every religion. It usually doesn't cross religions, that has added another dimension (or layer) to an age old issue.

The pentecostals vs. the lutherans, gay priests or not, FLDS vs. LDS - it's everywhere, it's nothing new, and there isn't anything wrong with someone not being thrilled with it, and it's really a non issue as far as I'm concerned, merely something interesting (as I detailed above in my previous post).

muggsey said...

10/2 2:32

Salvation: An adjective and also a noun meaning being snatched from a lost condition by GOD'S Grace (Love). The adjective connoting immediate action. The noun, the permanent condition resulting from GOD'S act of Grace.

Saved Immediately: An act of GOD'S Grace being accepted by my faith.

Simple enough?

Anonymous said...

Simple enough riddle. Encarta gets you that far.

In other words you haven't got a clue.

onthestreet said...

MUK: 10/02/2006 7:06 PM

Salvation has to do with the anointing oil within, and the Altar of In-cense: Sal-I-Va-tion.

onthestreet said...

See, that pertains to the degree of the intensity of the desire and works of faith. Then cometh the degree of Grace in exact proportion.

With every blessing, there is a law upon which that blessing is predicated. Without preparation and purification for the same, any blessing obtained is seized upon unlawfully. Then there is a fall from Grace.

ATAR_i said...

10:14 I don't understand why you believe Mugs doesn't have a clue?

I don't think it would matter what he said. You probably planned your response before he replied.

muggsey said...

No Webster, Encarta, Briticana nor any Bible Dictionary provided my answer. It came straight from the heart. After all, Salvation is the condition of one's soul after having submitted self to GOD'S plan for life.

Street, if there is any confusion it is entirely on your part. I am satisfied with my Salvation, how it came to be, WHO provided it and WHO assures it's continuance.

It becomes more and more evident that you haven't a clue as to what I am refering. Salvation is not something you have experienced. If it were you would know it's joy and therefore would rejoice in the Salvation of any soul. Instead you mock something of which you have no knowledge, nor desire to obtain knowledge thereof.

I now ask a question. If you have never experienced Salvation and therefore do not know the joy thereof, how can you in all good consience assume the role of the ONLY and ALMIGHTY JUDGE of those of us who know THE TRUTH to which we testify?

Anonymous said...

I am reminded, as I read the thoughts above, of a few philosophical quotes I recently heard. They might bring a smile to you as well.

1) There are three truths in life: a) Jews do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah,
b) Protestants do not recognize the Pope as the leader of the Christian faith.
c) Baptists do not recognize each other in the liquor store.

2) A clear conscience is often the sign of a bad memory.

3) The man who does not make mistakes does not usually make anything.

4) Even if you don't have all the things you want , be grateful for the things you don't have that you don't want.

Anonymous said...

"I still believe that homeschooled individuals should be required to pass the same basic knowledge tests, at grade level, as are required of those in accredited private and public schools."---Muggsey

Public School children are required to TAKE basic knowledge tests. They are not required to PASS them.

Anonymous said...

Sorry anon 10:53, but you need to brush up on the Texas Education Code. Here a child must pass the Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills test (TEKS) at incremental grade levels in order to advance and/or graduate.

Anonymous said...

I realize that some states require the passing of exams for advancement or graduation. However, if a student doesn't care about reaching either of those milestones, schools can't force him or her to progress. They cannot require them to PASS. I've seen many during my public school teaching career that refuse to learn, don't care if they advance to the next grade level, and don't care to graduate. I don't think the state can have a higher standard for one population than the other.

Anonymous said...

Of course they can have a higher standard. If you want to advance to the next grade in Texas public schools you must pass the test. Same way for a person wanting a diploma. As for those who refuse to learn, OTS can be held up as an example. Just point to him and tell the children, if you don't study hard and pay attention in class you'll turn out like Streety.

Anonymous said...

Reply to ATAR_i, at 10/01/2006 10:39 AM

I have found a difference between the mainstream LDS Mormon church and the non-mainstream Fundamentalist LDS Mormon church!

The mainstream LDS Mormon church practices "Fast Sunday" (that's where the Saints don't eat or drink ANYTHING on the first Sunday of EACH MONTH so that the Saints can give more money to the church [over and above their tithings] for the money saved from not eating or drinking ANYTHING!

I guess the idea is that if the Saints don't eat, then the Saints have saved money abd the church deserves to have that "bonus money" given to it.

The non-mainstream Fundamentalist LDS Mormon church does not practice this "voluntary" monthly starvation "pass the loving plate" tradition. And do you blame them?

Anonymous said...

hey Anon 10/04/2006 9:17

Are you really that miss informed about the LDS Fast Sunday Observance Or are you just trying to paint the FLDS in a bad light. You are correct there are differences in the FLDS and THE LDS modes of fastoferings / tithing
FLDS requires tithing and more even if your family is starving and not giving will cost you your membership and your wife. LDS on the other hand encourage tithing and fast offerings but neither are compulsory and not giving will not cost you your membership or your wife. See in the LDS church they still allow free will


ATAR_i said...

Fasting is fairly typical in all religions. As a teen I fasted for 11 days once. The normal yearly fast was 7 days without food.

I never heard once fasting related to money, or tithing.

muggsey said...

10/4/06 Anon 12:51

Obviously you still have no concept of the peace that comes from GOD. Were I dependent upon my own actions to grant and guarantee my salvation I, like you seem to think that you do, would fall far short of the mark.

I am not dependent upon my own actions, thoughts, deeds, or ability to perform great and mighty works. I am enabled by GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT to do HIS GOOD WORKS, therefore I am not in a contest with anyone else to determine my salvation. Salvation is of GOD, for GOD'S children, the price thereof paid in full by the shed blood of JESUS/GOD for my sins, and for yours too, if you will but believe.

Your opinions do not have any bearing upon GOD'S love for me. I Am HIS and HE is mine, now and for eternity.

Anonymous said...

I have been reading the comments on fasting.

I am a flds woman. When I was young we had a fast sunday once a month. I never understood what it ment untill after I was married. My Father would tell the family it was "fast sunday", and as far as I understood it, it ment that we were in a hurry to get to sunday school. So we could not eat breakfast. I did not realize at the time that it ment, willingly forgoing food, as an offering unto the Lord that we worshiped him more than anything else.

As far as fasting for money, I have never heard of this in our work. We have fasted for things like, courtcases, special occations, personal reasons. etc...

It is interesting to me where some people get their info? or mis-info. from. acually it is hillarious as times to read what is posted on here concerning our people.

Anonymous said...


I do believe the FLDS faithful are just as guilty of spreading lies about the apostates as the apostates are at spreading lies about the FLDS. Why can't we all just get along?

Anonymous said...

From my understanding, the money that is collected from LDS Fast Sunday observance is donated to the church but then distributed to the needy. So thats another difference between the two, The LDS church actually helps others.

Anonymous said...

There is also the Humanitarian Aid Fund, which helps worldwide regardless of the religion or lack of religion of the recipients.

Being led by a Prophet, they are actually able to move in relief supplies BEFORE the disaster, as in the case of the tsunami.

onthestreet said...

The tithes of the true church never went to the Devil, poor or rich. There are the Lord's poor, and there are the Devil's poor, according to the scripture. So there is ONE church that acts on correct principle.

onthestreet said...

The Lord will takes care of all people, letting the sun and the rain decend upon all. Not even a sparrow falls to the ground unnoticed. But there are laws, eternal laws, that ONE church abides in. Even Christ took all the lavishness unto Himself many times, like when Mary poured out a very costly oil on him, lavishly, rather than letting ole saint Judas give it to the poor.

muggsey said...

"saint" Judas?

Why should not the Savior of the World allow an individal who recognizes HIS divinity allow a Child of HIS WAY honor him by anointing HIS body in preparation of his pending crucifixion? JESUS knew what was coming. HE allowed Mary of Bethany and one other un-named woman to anoint his body. He reubuked those who criticized this act of love by telling them that the act of this woman would be remembered by those who would worship HIM in all eternity. HE knew whom HE was, regardles if any human recognized HIS DIVINITY.

Judas a was a child of his father, Satan, even the devil and JESUS knew Judas character and purpose from before the time he was appointed as diciple.

onthestreet said...

And your point would be......

Yes "saint" Judas, as many today betraying the prophet in their day, as they did Jesus, yet presuming themselves to be saints.

Anonymous said...

One fine day in the middle of the night,
Muggsey and OTS got up to fight
Blog to blog they faced each other
Drew their bible and blabbed each other.

And if you don't believe their gospel's true,
Ask the blind follower, He sees it too.

ATAR_i said...

don't forget...

A deaf policeman heard the din
and ran to help the two beaten men

Anonymous said...

I think it would go better as follows

A deaf infidel heard the din
and ran to help the two boring men.

muggsey said...

1:00 PM

The meter would improve if you left out "the" from the third line.

A deaf infidel heard the din
and ran to help two boring men.

See what I mean!

Thanks for the critique!

Anonymous said...

Dont quit your day job muggsey.

It does need the article.

A deaf infidel who heard the din
ran to help the two boring men.

muggsey said...

the article doesn't change the intent of the line, but does add an additional word to upset the meter.

This is my day job. At night, unlike some others, I sleep.

If I'm a bore,
that's too bad,
I think a lot,
It makes me glad.

If I'm glad
so is my wife,
and that makes for
a plesent life.

A genius I will never be
I'm just a guy
you'll never see
build a house
or climb a tree
or hunt a bear
or curse the rain,
each day's a blessing
just the same.

So take your lot
what e'er it be
just be the best
that you can be.

You'll find that life
goes day by day,
there's not a thing
you can do or say,

To slow time's march
across your way.
So have some fun,
write a pun
or joke about
your departing sun.

onthestreet said...

LOL: Listen, kids. To be "deaf and dumb" is a gospel law, for the Lord said: "Be still, and know that I am God". The Lord touches the deaf that they hear, and the dumb that they speak.

As for him hearing the din, no matter how deaf a person is, their stomach alerts them of the din, as in din din, chow, chop chop. Then he hath the strength to help the two men a boring, as for gold. Truth is golden.

Anonymous said...

Silence is golden too.

Please, OTS.

onthestreet said...


peaches said...

Mormons always ask for a bishop approved bag for their beer. And FLDS do not recognize each other in the liquor store, Nowadays they don't even recognize each other in the grocery store.

When I first gained my freedom, I didn't want to change anything, from the way I wore my hair to what I wore. Now I have changed everything. I don't want to be called one of "them".

onthestreet said...

And so you shant, apostate complete, Who can recant, the judgement replete?

Anonymous said...

Street when you can quote me scripture from the "Bible" OR Book of Mormon to support your dribble I might pay attention.

No "revelations" from the Doctrine and Covenants.


Book of Mormon
5 And it came to pass that Riplakish did not do that which was right in the sight of the Lord, for he did have many wives and concubines, and did lay that upon men’s shoulders which was grievous to be borne; yea, he did tax them with heavy taxes; and with the taxes he did build many spacious buildings.
6 And he did erect him an exceedingly beautiful throne; and he did build many prisons, and whoso would not be subject unto taxes he did cast into prison; and whoso was not able to pay taxes he did cast into prison; and he did cause that they should labor continually for their support; and whoso refused to labor he did cause to be put to death.
7 Wherefore he did obtain all his fine work, yea, even his fine gold he did cause to be refined in prison; and all manner of fine workmanship he did cause to be wrought in prison. And it came to pass that he did afflict the people with his whoredoms and abominations.

Just put "Warren" in Riplakish place.

Anonymous said...

why peaches,when warren gets through with the flds........
they wont recognize each other in the bedroom.


onthestreet said...

Just put "Warren" in Riplakish place. 10/13/2006 11:03 AM

The BOM is true, even in this, for the higher blessings are NOT for any except God's elect, just as they were for Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Jesus, Joseph, and Warren.

Riplakish was like all who turn against the Prophet and the Lord, and then "seize upon such blessings unlawfully", as the Lord puts it. Thus the plain edict, that it was NOT right in the sight of the Lord, any more than it is right for Uncle Roy, Uncle Rulon, or Uncle Warren, to give any man even one wife who is not pure, and would only destroy her, and plunge himself deeper into outer darkness.

ATAR_i said...

I think I'd rather put warren in Shadracks place. Throw him in the furnace - see if he burns.

Anonymous said...

Whoa--atar_i, I agree with 99% of your posts, but you need to not post such things. I don't like people fantasizing ugly things like this on Warren.

ATAR_i said...

It does sound rather morbid doesn't it.

Anonymous said...

Street you amaze me.

You said....Thus the plain edict, that it was NOT right in the sight of the Lord, any more than it is right for Uncle Roy, Uncle Rulon, or Uncle Warren, to give any man even one wife who is not pure, and would only destroy her, and plunge himself deeper into outer darkness.

Exactly what is happening with giving one's wife to another man because her current husband "lost his priesthood."

muggsey said...

The BOM is "true" "even in this"? What? The great ots has cast a shadow over the truth of Joseph Smith's little book of nonsense?

Oh well, what ever he finds convenient at any moment.

I'm sure glad I don't have a crazy uncle!

onthestreet said...

"And the Lord God will come out of His hiding place, and in His vengeance and hot displeasure, He will vex the nations", as if He were "crazy".

muggsey said...

Double talk, intended to confuse and dodge the truth. Can you give a straight answer to any question street, or do you only know how to lie and pervert?


onthestreet said...

Yes, the husband and father of many. Cheers.

muggsey said...

I can't immagine anyone associated with you leading a cheer!

You still haven't answered the question.

Have you sired a child?

onthestreet said...

Yes. Spiritual unions sire many spiritual souls for the Lord's work. You seem rather desperate to understand or to dispute.

muggsey said...

Well, Street got canned again! He just can't seem to understand that his choice of thought and word fall below the minimal standard required by those who contribute to this blog. His self-appreciation of his coined phrases and vulgar words, offered to belittle, have backfired again. Do any of you think that he will ever learn?