Saturday, July 22, 2006

Making The Jump

There are members of the LDS religion who are sympathetic to the FLDS and other fundamental Mormon groups. There are many people who have been in the leadership positions at the LDS Church and have a good knowledge of why fundamental Mormon polygamous groups get started. There is, without doubt, a group of practicing LDS Mormons who would make the jump to fundamental Polygamous Mormon Doctrine and are sick and tired of what they have been getting from the LDS leadership. When someone comes along who can pull this support together your going to see a split in the LDS Mormon church. Right now there is no where to jump to. But when there is, there will be those moving any from the LDS church.

38 comments:

Anonymous said...

Fundy you seem to be a bit confused about the LDS church aka Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Most of the membership of the church lives outside of Utah, most members are desendants of converts since 1890. Consider that there are only 1.7 million members of LDS church in Utah 14% of membership. What this means is that majority of membership has no history of polygamy nor any wish to adopt this lifestyle.
Here's a link: Membership by State-USA

Here's another link about membership of LDS Church: Membership

Fundy before you go spouting off nonsense at least try to get your facts straight. PS you will that most LDS in Utah don't care for polygamy either.

TBM said...

I'm certainly not one of them. My first and only wife is quite sufficient for me, and I have no desire at all for any other woman.

And I'm in good enough company that I think your comment is wishful thinking. I don't think I've ever encountered an LDS who was inclined toward having a second wife (at least, in this lifetime). And I don't know what you mean by "sick and tired of what they've been getting from the LDS leadership", but if they didn't like it, they'd probably be inactive.

No disrespect intended, but most LDS think there's more to life than an acumulation of wives.

Anonymous said...

" there will be a landslide moving any from the LDS church"

Sorry fundy your way off on this one.

The vast majority of mormons don't know there past nor do they care to learn about it.

They also see polygs as a thorn in there side they hope will go away.

Anonymous said...

Just what we need, more splinter groups and splinters from splinters.

god wannabe said...

BUT WE WONT GO AWAY!!

I will quote John Taylor from someone elses post in another blog. Dated January 6, 1880:

"Rebellion is not on the program but we will worship God according to the dictates of our own conscience. We want to be friendly with the United States, if the Government will let us; BUT NOT ONE JOT NOR TITTLE of our rights will we give up to purchase it. I would like the good God of heaven to prevent them from making laws that we CANNOT KEEP; but when adulterers and libertines pass a law forbidding polygamy the Saints CANNOT OBEY IT. "

AND I WILL TELL YOU WHY!!

Quote from my great gradmother Esther E Morrison in her life history:

"Years later, about 1925, I attended a Daughters of the Pioneers meeting held at the home of Mrs. Joseph J Danes, on Fifth east, who was a daughter of President Wilford Woodruff. Also another daughter, Mrs. Beatty was there. She spoke on the Manifesto. During her talk she said:
“The day father signed the manifesto I was in the front room when he came home. I shall never forget his face. He moaned, and said “O God what have I done?” He immediately went upstairs to his room. He remained there for a whole week, never speaking to any of us. When he came down and joined the family he looked awful. The ravages of sickness could never have made him look worse. It was awful.”
As a note here, my children, I desire to leave this to you. I know the law of plural marriage to be a heaven truth. Your father was an issue of that great law. You have a righteous heritage. Don’t trample on it, but treasure it, and accept the pattern given to you.”

fundy said...

The vast majority of mormons don't know there past nor do they care to learn about it.

That may be unfortunate, but true, however there are some that take the tine to actually know their religion. Thats why the LDS church has so many problems with people in academics. These people ,sooner or later find where the contridictions are.

The LDS are of the Opinion that they can wave the magic wond and hocus pocus change doctrine to whatever suits there needs of the time.

This is satanic doctrine at its best.

fundy said...

The doctrine of presto chango as it applies to polygamy. In order to make a religion popular, a money maker, certain doctrine of the past must be dumped. Because it is not a popular belief any longer, so things must change, in order to maximize popularity and also CASH FLOW. This is the doctrine of presto chango, the flock, the fish in the net, MUST believe this concept in order that the religion must retain its popularity, ie cash flow. Both the FLDS and LDS use this concept to the MAX. The difference being that LDS are very good business people while the FLDS are NOT AT ALL. This concept is a basic doctrine of Beelzebub. Therefore the LDS dumped polygamy and alot of other things and made the flock happy and secure in their nonsense. Because most LDS don't understand Mormon Doctrine or the glaring contridictions it has, or its history, they take this mixture of doctrinal pablum and eat it up like there is no tomorrow. Like throwing fish food out to fish in a pond. While sending in their checks. The FLDS also tend to use this doctrine alot and the members of both LDS and FLDS become non-thinking robots to the religion. Becoming unknowing tools of the dark side.

Anonymous said...

Fundy:

You are way off base again. It is clear that you know nothing at all of the LDS church, and are just spouting your wishful thinking.

Count me as a TBM who DOES know the history of the Church. And I am quite comfortable with it. I make a hobby of studying the history of the Church. I do know a lot of members of the Church.

In all of my dealings with members of the Church, I have only encountered ONE person who would happily embrace polygamy if it were presented by the Prophet. We would follow President Hinckley in whatever he reveals from the Lord, but we would each have a responsibility to receive our own confirmation on such an issue. Even that one person would not look to break from the Church and follow another.

We are absolutely NOT "sick and tired of what (we) have been getting from the LDS leadership".

Go fish somewhere else.

muggsey said...

A bitter, but interesting concept with which I can't find a great deal of fault.

Denial is a symptom of mental illness. To deny that Mormon religion (I won't call it Christian because I have seen nothing Christian in the practice therof) is not self serving is an out and out lie.

When I was in the military there was a Mormon in my company. He was the most arrogant, self-righteous individual I think I have ever known. If his example was to serve as a magnet to his belief, I wanted to not walk, but run in the opposite direction.

As I have reported before, on a couple of occassions boys wearing black suits and ties, riding bicycles attempted to break through my convictions and get me to believe that there was another revelation of Jesus Christ. I told them, and I tell all who read this post. Jesus did not need further revelation. What he left us was perfect and complete.

Your equality between Jesus and Satan, as being brothers with God as the father is blasphemy. That and the other nonsense you teach is straight from the devil's hell. How convenient to claim brotherly relationship. You can perform works of Satan and proclaim that they are equal to the Grace of God. How easy it is for you to lure family and fellow members of your cult to follow suit.

TBM said...

Muggsey:Denial is a symptom of mental illness

Spare me, Muggsey! I deny that communism is the salvation of the human race. I deny that Jews are sub-human and deserve to be put into concentration camps and gassed. Am I mentally ill?

fundy said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ATAR_i said...

So, fundy, let me bring up my question again. Since you basically just said that TBM is going to hell.

WHO are the enemies of zion?

fundy said...

Why don't you start own topic atar_i. And leave me alone. Go away.

ATAR_i said...

Simple question - your unwillingness to answer it is what's prompting me.

Why should I start my own thread, barlow has started at least three threads on the same topic - it would be a waste of space. And, I really don't need my own blog real estate to participate.

I'm not trying to trap you, just simply gain a better understanding of your beliefs.

fundy said...

atar_1 go bother some one else. I am not interested in answering any one sided questions you have. Arrivederci, Caveat Emptor, find someone else to focus your attention on.

Anonymous said...

haha..I don't think he can answer your question Atar_i. Quite funny actually. It's entertaining that he ask you to bother someone else.

Fundy, why post if you can't answer questions? She doesn't sound like she's being mean, just curious about your beliefs and trying to understand them. Why so defensive? Maybe it's because you aren't sure of the answer or are embarrassed by it? I would love to know the answer to the question myself. Would you please enlighten us with an answer?

fundy said...

go away, pester some one else.

muggsey said...

In the context of my earlier comment concerning the Mormon Religion being in denial, I stand by my original statement. It has nothing to do with communism or Jews. It's denial of truth.

Anonymous said...

Fundy,
You are coming accross here as someone who TRIES to talk a good game but has nothing to back it up. You think that you are dazzling us with your brilliance but it is coming accross as BS.

If you are going to present your thoughts here then you should think it through before you do and you'd better be able to back them up. Otherwise, it it you who should go away.

This blog should be a place where intelligent discussion can take place. If all you are going to do is throw out your opinions, with nothing to back them up, and refuse to defend or even discuss them, then you are benefitting no one by being here.

fundy said...

go give your attentions to some one else.

ATAR_i said...

I just don't know how long I can hold off asking you questions. I'll try, but if you start talking about strong and mighty ones vanquishing all the enemies of zion again - I'll have to ask questions - I can't help it.

Who are the enemies of zion? That's all I ask - who are they? I just don't understand the criteria that classifies one as an enemy.

I don't want to bug you - and I can tell your irritated, but perhaps later you can tell me that one.

fundy said...

go give your attentions to some one else.

Anonymous said...

ATAR_i said...
So, fundy, let me bring up my question again. Since you basically just said that TBM is going to hell.
WHO are the enemies of zion? 7/24/2006 10:02 PM

You adulterers and adulteresses, don't you know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. (James 4:4).

ATAR_i said...

Or perhaps I'll just keep irritating you because that was a really prickish response.

onthestreet said...

The irritating is what is prickish, by your own definition. If he is irritating you with such short and consise replies, according to the free exercise of his own conscience, and you feel to belittle that and "keep irritating" him, who's the Prick?

fundy said...

go give your attentions to some one else.

ATAR_i said...

No thanks.

Anonymous said...

Atari,

I think you should keep bugging him. Although really, he never makes sense just like OTS. Plus, he is one that thinks a wife's place is at home cooking and cleaning al lthe time without any education and options in her life. That's probably why he doesn't answer your questions. It's not your place (to him) to ask questions. You should just be submissive and move along.

muggsey said...

In your opinion fundy, where, what, when and to whom is Zion supposed to appear? Give me a BIBL
ICAL reference. None of that made up mormon stuff.

Anonymous said...

Come on Fundy,
You have stated your convictions now BE A MAN and back them up. If your convictions have any substance at all then that shouldn't be a problem.

You state in your profile that "I believe in the original Mormon Doctrine as revealed by Joseph Smith. I am a Mormon Fundamentalist. Make no Doubt."

Then, in an above 7/24/2006 2:02 PM post you say "Because most LDS don't understand Mormon Doctrine or the glaring contridictions it has, or its history, they take this mixture of doctrinal pablum and eat it up like there is no tomorrow."

You are contradicting yourself. You say in your profile that you believe in the Original Mormon Doctrine and then in your above post you state that there are glaring contradictions.

So which person are you? Are you the one that believes in the original doctrine or the one that sees the glaring contradictions?

This should be a two-way street here. If you are going to attack others beliefs on this blog then you'd better be ready to stand up and defend your own.

I don't believe that you have the goods to back up your statements which is clearly evident in your unwillingness or inability to answer the simple questions that Atar_i has asked.

You sound like you found your convictions on the back of a cereal box. You come accross as a high school dropout who read the cover of a PHD level textbook and then wants to teach the course.

Stand up and prove me wrong. If you are going to state your convictions here, stand up and state them clearly and then be ready to defend them. Otherwise, don't waste our time or blog space with your self-indulgent ramblings.

ATAR_i said...

OTS touche - please let this OTS post all the time - I could get use to you making sense and being witty!

fundy said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

If you've got solid footing, why not be willing to talk to Atar_I? Most of the time when people won't talk to someone, it's because they feel threatened.

Let me ask you a few things and see if you really believe it.

Do you really believe J.S. will come back as a murderer and kill by the thousands anyone who opposes his view of religion? She asked about the enemies of Zion and who they are. Well, are they people who refuse to join Mormonism, or not? Every religion has apostates and people who want to see it dismanted. Should all these religions start preaching the killing of their enemies. Do you feel that such doctrine is correct?

Do you really believe all of the original doctrine as put forth by J.S. Polygny? (read D&C 132; Emma was offered another MAN--that is what is referred to as telling her to refrain from what she was offered) Blood atonement? Don't tell me B.Y. started this. Reincarnation? If you are unworthy of Celestial Glory, you will be reincarnated until you make it.

fundy said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Fundy,
Your response is exactly as I expected.

You said "I believe in the original doctrine not the contridictions and changes since then....."

What about the glaring problems and contridictions in the original doctrine?

You said "You don't have a firm understanding of Mormon Doctrine or to be more precise the changes that have occured over the years".

How about you present a few SPECIFIC contradictions since the original doctrine so that people can respond. Then, I'll present a few glaring problems and contradictions with the original doctrine for you to respond to. You can demonstrate to us how firm YOUR understanding of Mormon doctrine is.

How about it? Can you walk the walk?

ATAR_i said...

I'm curious how fundy will answer you, I ask much simpler questions, and he's hiding from me - perhaps you will have better luck.

onthestreet said...

muggsey said (7/26/2006 2:06 PM):
In your opinion fundy, where, what, when and to whom is Zion supposed to appear? Give me a BIBL
ICAL reference. None of that made up mormon stuff.

STREET's Reply: "Zion is the pure in heart", and "blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God".

Straight from you Bible, straight from your Lord. The Zion of Heaven will only appear to the Zion on Earth, the pure in heart.

Anonymous said...

Did Fundy cut and run? He is deleting his posts. Must be embarassed by his responses and is trying to cover his tracks.