Sunday, May 21, 2006

The Meltdown

Before violence erupts in a society or culture, they must be immoral.
We used to say that will never happen in the Creek, but now...

Check - Got Immorality!

Dads leave, walk away -- the women and children are un protected leaving them vulnerable. Families get bigger and bigger and more children to less adults. Recipe for disaster.
The statistics for sexual abuse across the US is 50% (abused before adulthood). We as a community used to be immune to it, now with Warren Jeffs help, I'm sure it is average. Nobody likes to talk about things they HOPE are not happening or hope never will happen, but this is REALITY.
Is it the religion or is it the culture?

79 comments:

ATAR_i said...

Child abuse and molestation might be cultural.

But when a girl goes to the police, and they tell the pastor instead of making chargs - THAT'S the religion.

Young girls being sexually desired by old men is realitiy.

But when a young girl is given away to an older man by her pastor - THAT'S the religion.

So - now you have a culture when jr. high girls are sleeping with old men and it's encouraged by the pastor. And a culture when copping a feel with your daughter doesn't get you in trouble. NOW YOU HAVE THE CULTURE OF THIS RELIGION.

When you allow abuses and bad practices to go unchecked - you wind up with problems. Problems in the people - who, have been hog tied in every other way except sexually - sexually it's an ACTUAL smorgasborg. Have your daughter, have someone elses, have 20 have 70, (have the little boys in the bathroom as well apparently).

No wonder they are fighting so hard for polygamy - it's all they have left.

Anonymous said...

What EMPTYNESS. . . . . . . .

rcn

ATAR_i said...

Hey question.

I just purchased a copy of the doctrine and the covenants commentary - it's old, but I can't tell how old.

It still has the stuff about plural marriage in section 132 - is that in all the commentaries?

ATAR_i said...

The Bible Corrected by Joseph Smith

I nearly plotz'd when I saw that title for sale at the deseret books auction site

http://deseretbook.com/auctions/show-auction?auction_id=384352

So when LDS faithful state they believe in the Bible - is This the Bible they are talking about?

Anonymous said...

No the LDS church never adopted Smith's "Corrected"Bible they use the King James Version.

Anonymous said...

Checkout this news report- LE camped out at YFZ. Pilot & Sheriff Doran interviewed.
http://cbs11tv.com/video/?id=10000@ktvt.dayport.com

Anonymous said...

ATAR_I
So when LDS faithful state they believe in the Bible - is This the Bible they are talking about?

Checkout this link from LDS church website, it has KJV Bible, D&C, Book of Mormon etc online.


http://scriptures.lds.org/


Yes the LDS Mormons use the KJV of Bible. Joseph Smith started a translation of Bible, but was never completed-see link for JS translation.

hydrolab said...

i hope everyone makes it ok
really i do

thats all i have to say about that...

ATAR_i said...

Thanks for posting the video article. I'd never seen the photo with all the individuals huddled.

I'm curious why they sell the Bible with JS corrections if it was never adapted.

"With this book, there is no more searching for footnotes or trying to mentally insert the corrections; using bold type and strikethrough, you can see each one of them as you read."

So do Mormons learn certain scriptures in the Bible aren't true?

Anonymous said...

Mormons Article of Faith #8(of 13)

We believe the bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. We also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

Joseph Smith Wrote the "Articles of Faith."

Anonymous said...

"We believe the bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly.
We also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God."


"I believe I'll have another beer"

keep sweet eldorado
stg

Anonymous said...

Atar:

We really don't have a "list" of verses in the Bible that are not translated correctly. In fact, we are much more likely to say that the Bible means EXACTLY what it says, and leave it to the Catholics and Protestants and their "experts" to say that it does not.

A few examples:

The Bible says that we were created in the image of God. The "experts" say "image" does not mean what everybody knows it means.

The Bible says that Jesus Christ is God's Only Begotten Son. The "experts" say begotten does not mean begotten.

Paul wrote that we are the offspring of God. The "experts" would argue otherwise.

The Bible refers to God as having hands, feet, a face, sides, and "back parts", whatever that is. It also refers to Him as male. Are we the only ones left that believe that?

One example of where the JST does clear up a mis-translation: In Hebrews, the Bible appears to state that Melchizidek was "without father, without mother". The JST clarifies that it is not Melchezidek himself, but the Order of Melchizidek (the Priesthood) that is eternal, or without father or mother.

As to why it is not more widely used...The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not own the copyright. I believe that it was the RLDS that did own it, so now it is probably the Community of Christ. But anyhow, we do have the benefeit of it, and the Bible is pretty darn close.

You're welcome. Glad I could help.

Anonymous said...

Wow, you almost sound like a Baptist, except not as educated in the Old Testament.

Anonymous said...

Well, thankya, i guess.

If "educated" means "schooled by the 'experts'", then I plead guilty.

I think I do know what the Old Testament says. You can have your "Bible Scholars".

Anonymous said...

Hey question.

I just purchased a copy of the doctrine and the covenants commentary - it's old, but I can't tell how old.

It still has the stuff about plural marriage in section 132 - is that in all the commentaries?

By ATAR_i, at 5/22/2006 8:14 PM


I would guess that your edition is yesterday's editon.

Anonymous said...

Mormons Article of Faith #8(of 13)

We believe the bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. We also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

Joseph Smith Wrote the "Articles of Faith."

By Anonymous, at 5/23/2006 1:36 PM


And thus you have Mormonism, as far as it is translated correctly.

Anonymous said...

Reply to Atar_i

So do Mormons learn certain scriptures in the Bible aren't true?

5/23/2006 7:31 AM


Sure looks like they DO!

If it does not suit the Church's purpose at the current time, things can get a bit distorted.

Anonymous said...

Sounds a lot like an older version of The Di Vinci code, touted as truth, but when compared aginst ancient proof texts fails every time.


rcn

mugwump said...

And I guess that illiterate Joseph Smith was the only one who coud translate correctly or is this one of the gifts of prophesy siezed by the likes of Warren Jeffs.

All that crud being passed off as another testament of Jesus Christ is worse than the books used to prove the DiVinci Code. They were Gnostic Gospels from the second and third century, before Constantine and the Council of Nicea AD 325, The Council of Hippo AD 393 or the Council of Carthage AD 397.

The only texts recognized as canon were those with direct apostolic authorship or by writers such as John Mark, Luke, James and Jude who all had a personal knowledge of the life and ministry of Jesus Christ.

The Book Of Mormon is based upon a manuscript of a lengthy romantic yarn penned by Rev. Solomon Spalding. Spalding titled his work "A Manuscript found." The gist of the theam of the novel was discovery of an ancient race of people who came from elsewhere to America. One outstanding memorable identy mark was that a repeatedly used the phrase "and it came to pass" was repeated so often that Spalding himself became associated with that particular phrase and thus became known as old "and it came to pass." Spalding submitted the manuscript to Patterson's Printing shop at Conneaut Creek, N.Y. In the meantime Spalding being in poor health died leaving the manuscript in the Patterson's care.

A man, who ws to become a key player in the mystery surrounding the real story behind the book of Mormon appeared on the scene and was allowed to have access to Spalding's manuscript. The Patterson's, not believing that the book had much literary value failed to note that one Sidney Rigdon, a pastor of some repute had "borrowed" the manuscript. Rigdon was pastor of the Baptist Church in Pittsburg, Pa. While holding this pastorite Rigdon developed a relationshiip with one Rev. John Winter, M.D. Rigdon produced a manuscript, identifying it as one written by Rev. Solomon Spalding a Presbyterian minister, a few years earlier. Rigdon told Winter that the manuscript was a romanticized version of the Bible. Dr. Winter did not read the manuscript nor think anything more about it until the Book of Mormon was published. Dr Winter recorded that the widow of Rev. Spalding recognized large passages of the newly published "Book of Mormon" as having been a part of her husband's novel.

Rigdon, having been separated from Baptists by the congregation joined with followers of Alexander Campbell only to leave them to join forces with Joseph Smith. It is widely thought that Rigdon, having the literary capability, wrote the book and gave it to Smith, who then claimed to have received the message on the golden plates, read from the abridged translation of Rigdon's revision of Spalding's novel as the "Book of Mormon."

In the passing years Oliver
Cowdrey became one of Joseph Smith's associates and assisted in getting the work published. the work is in Joseph Smith's name.

A wide variety of individuals who knew Spalding, the Pattersons, Rigdon, Cowdrey and Smith have testified as to their knowledge as to how the work came about. Although not entirely consistant in regard to details of one thing they are all sure. That one thing is that the Genesis for the "Book of Mormon" was Spalding's novel.

Reference: "Who Really Wrote the Book of Mormon?" 'The Spalding Enigma' by: Wayne L. Cowdrey, Howard A. Davis & Arthur Vanick
Published by Conclordia Publishing House - St. Louis. Copyright 2005

Anonymous said...

Mugwump:

That book just recounts all of the old, debunked arguments, and tends to discount both the authors' and your credibility.

The fact that you are so quickly taken in by the anti's and believe literally ANYTHING they say tells more about you than you would wish known.

A genuine copy of Spaulding's manuscript was found in the late 1800's, and you may compare them for yourself.

There have been many similar manuscripts and theories brought forward, which only tends to PROVE the truth of the Book of Mormon and it's value to the world, in that dismissing it is of such great worth to the adversary of us all.

fttc said...

Mugwump

Just an FYI so you don't make a fool of yourself. You and I went the rounds some time back and I have no intention of resuming having come the conclusion that we would agree to disagree.

The Spalding story was written at least several years after the BOM was published. Rigdon did not meet JS for nearly five years after the first BOM was printed. I have seen you reference this several times now so I thought you should know.

mugwump said...

According to the compilers of "Who Wrote the Book of Mormon", document by date place, and person(s),carefully researched, your previous statement is not true. I won't argue with you, but if you really want to know the result of the INTENSE, carefully researched and footnoted study, buy a copy and read it before attempting to understand my firm stance on what I indeed believe to be fact. Incidently I don't own any stock in Concordia Press nor am I Lutheran, and I don't own a book store. There are too many coincidences and contridictions in the Mormon exerience to believe otherwise.

6:14 I think that you will find that the original of Spalding's manuscript was never found. If you've not read this study and many others you are going to believe whatever you want to anyway.

Whatever harm has come from the DiVinci code, the multitude of scholarly works that have followed in its wake have not only proven it as fraud, but have firmly established the dates of the three councils that determined those books accepted by the early church as being scripture (canon) and why they were chosen as well as discounting those others Dan Brown's novel depends upon as truth.

There is no need for the book of Mormon, there never was nor will there ever be. It's whole premise is based upon a false concept. Why would God need Joseph Smith to do anything? His appearance came at the end of the Great Awakening in America. Smiths and Rigdon's own personal history makes one suspect of the authenticity. The very idea that all other churches are false sounds just like it came from the pen of one of Sidney Rigdon's heros Alexander Campbell, and is so hypercalvinistic that it prohibits God from being God. The complete departure from worship of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to name your god Michael, Adam and who knows what next week, or the next time your prophet changes his mind, follows no authority from scripture.

The Holy Bible is a living work, at work in the lives of believers world wide, as it has been for nearly two thousand years and it will be here when all the works of man are burned to ash, including Joseph Smith's abomination.

Anonymous said...

Characteristics of Cults
by Janja Lalich and Michael Langone

**Concerted efforts at influence and control lie at the core of cultic groups, programs, and relationships. Many members, former members, and supporters of cults are not fully aware of the extent to which members may be manipulated, exploited, or even abused. The following list of social-structural, social-psychological, and interpersonal behavioral patterns commonly found in cultic environments may help you assess a particular group or relationship.

Compare these patterns to the situation you were in (or in which you, a family member, or friend is currently involved). This list may help you determine if there is cause for concern. Bear in mind that this list is not meant to be a “cult scale,” or a definitive checklist to determine if a specific group is a cult; this is not so much a diagnostic instrument as it is an analytical tool.

The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader, and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law. (this applies)
Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished. (this applies)
Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, or debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s). (warrens tapes)
The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (e.g., members must get permission to date, change jobs, or marry or leaders prescribe what to wear, where to live, whether to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth). (this applies)
The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and its members (e.g., the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avataror the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).
The group has a polarized, us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society. ( this applies)
The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders, or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations). ( this applies)
The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (e.g., lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).
The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and control members. Often this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.
Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group. (this applies)
The group is preoccupied with making money. (this applies)
Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.
Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leaveor even consider leaving the group.

!!!Check it out!!!!

Anonymous said...

Home Run with the bases loaded!

rcn

Anonymous said...

I think one key element that got the cult mentality into high gear was when Warren stated that "Father is so holy, he can't stand the presence of a Gentile."

Anonymous said...

Exactly when did he make that statement?

onthestreet said...

Nor can I (stand the presence of a Gentile), and God says he hides His face from them. If you consider it unholy to shun filth, then you've got your priorities twisted, and a few loose marbles. Your brain is not functioning right, like you're suffering a genuine disease. Everyone knows that to shun filth and all that is gentile, as the Lord describes in His Word, is the approach of holiness, and to shun holiness is the decay of filth and the destruction of the soul, for Christ is Holy.

ATAR_i said...

Mary

onthestreet said...

That's right, Mary too is holy.

ATAR_i said...

Every time you make some hideous comment about your version of Gods conditional love (BTW - it's unconditional)

I will simply say Mary.

You found it opportune to come to her defense and stated 'she came in the perfect package'. I would like to bring to your attention that this is diametrically opposed to all your other diatribes on this subject (remember she was a prostitute).

I will say Mary as a reminder that God looks on the heart.

I will say Mary when you purport God's love to be conditional on clothing, ritualism, and external factors.

I will simply say Mary

mugwump said...

Why did the Lord send Peter to Cornelius. What was the purpose of Paul's four missionary journeys? Who were the residents of Antioch, Smyrna, Ephesis, Thessoloniaca, Corrinth, Athens, Rome, Phillipi, Colosse, Cyprus, Malta, Crete? Some Jews, but the church grew among the gentiles.

Street's myopia is worsening.

Faithful Woman said...

Ever wonder what was so bad about a Samaritan and why it was such a wonderful thing that on of them of all people did a good deed?

To my understanding, they were the "appostates" from the church in those days. Evil, wicked discenters.

Think about it, two 'good' church men hurried past the missery they didn't want to see, hear, or share, while an 'appostate' took the risk of stopping and carring for the injured party. Even spending money on his care and well being.

Anonymous said...

Faithful:

Samaria, a New Testament reference to the residual ten northern tribes of Israel that broke away from Judea following King Soloman's reign, was so named because of it's one time capitol city, Samaria. Samaria (Israel) never had a Godly King, all were idolators.

Samaritan's were despised by the New Testement Jews because they were considered as unclean, of mixed blood, guilty of Worshiping God in Samaria instead of at the Temple in Jerusalem. Samaritians were considered outcasts. The fact that Jesus made a special trip through Samaria, when the normal route would to be to go down to the Jordan or to cross the central highlands route to reach Galilee. It was in Samaria, the town called Sychar, that He encountered the so called "woman at the well" John 4: 1-42. It is because of this example that Jesus himself gave, referencing outcasts as being redeemable, that encourged Paul and others in begining missionary journeys to Europe in the early days of the Christian Church. (not catholic)

nuf sed

onthestreet said...

ATAR_i said (5/29/2006 9:11 PM):
Every time you make some hideous comment about your version of Gods conditional love (BTW - it's unconditional)I will simply say Mary.

You found it opportune to come to her defense and stated 'she came in the perfect package'. I would like to bring to your attention that this is diametrically opposed to all your other diatribes on this subject (remember she was a prostitute).

I will say Mary as a reminder that God looks on the heart.

I will say Mary when you purport God's love to be conditional on clothing, ritualism, and external factors. I will simply say Mary


TAR BUQUET: Don't worry, He loves you, but He has set laws upon which heaven is predicated (yes, conditions). But dont' worry, He still loves you, little sparrow. That is why he feeds you crumbs, and takes His little ones over His knee once in awhile, precisely because He loves you.

Hey Tarry, let's do it together. We will remind everybody that Mary came in a perfect package, like I said earlier. The prostitution thingy is one of the media spins of ancient and modern times.

Mary

onthestreet said...

By the way, sissy, how long has it been since you talked with the Lord, or reviewed His word?

CONDITIONS is laid out on every single page, and the punishments for violating them. It is very precise.

onthestreet said...

However, He is certainly a most loving God. Yes, He looks at the heart, but that does NOT mean that He justifies the evils that are in every heart.

Did not your Savior say that "ALL HAVE SINNED", when He was defending Mary Himself? So there is evil there for all of us to get rid of, within ourselves and our jurisdiction.

ATAR_i said...

Luke 7:47 (Luke 7:36 - 50) Mary

Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little

As for the 'perfect package see Luke 7:37 and vs. 39

37. And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment....

39. Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.

Not a perfect package - looked down on by the religious.

She was forgiven BECAUSE SHE LOVED MUCH, not, because she sinned little

onthestreet said...

There you go. And that made her a perfect package, see? That is an example to look up to, right?

ATAR_i said...

No, you despise sinners - you can't even stand the fact that your own prophets make love to their own wives and procreate.

Your stance on this matter is highly hypocritical - to put it mildly.

mugwump said...

atar_i

The more I read of ots postings the more I become convinced that he is an anomaly among his own. His wild totally irrational posts are for the purpose of gainiing attention to himself. He is one of those rare individuals who, for some unknown reason, is mad at the world as a whole. I doubt that he has any friends among his family, associates or those whom he defends. He is a cast out loner whose only joy is entering quips on this and other blogs that in some peculiar way make him feel superior. He is to be pitied.

ots, your immoral, unsolicited comments making lewd suggestions to atat_i are totally disgusting. Your only defense is that your lack the mental capability of answering questions for legetimate reasons.

Sometimes it is better to take the hurt, and you do absorb a lot of verbage that you can't defend, than to resort to vile suggetions.

You want to claim perfection? Your very posts shout otherwise.

onthestreet said...

Mugwump (5/31/2006 9:13 AM):

STREET’s Reply: Me? Mad at the world as a whole? Well then, I am in very good hands, for so is God mad at the world, and He even says so in your Christian Bible, does he not? Here, let me show you, factually, scripturally, emphatically (Rev. 11:18):

“The nations were angry, and your wrath came, as did the time for the dead to be judged, and to give your bondservants the prophets, their reward, as well as to the saints, and those who fear your name, to the small and the great; and to destroy those who destroy the earth."

See, who indeed is angry, me or the nations? It says “THE NATIONS are angry”, and that my little mud pup includes you. However, who is it that is opposed to you and the nations? “God’s wrath is come”. GOD IS ANGRY with you and the nations, as He says here. So yes, you are all in agreement that I am in very good hands by being angry with the nations of the earth.

You are right about my joy in defending him. If that is all I accomplish in this life, great will be my joy in heaven. Then all of heaven and earth is my friend, and I need be lonely no more.

Now, you speak of my “unsolicited and lewd suggestions” in countering all the vileness and lewdness that you have all been defending, and dumping on the FLDS people. So, my comments to you are very well solicited, and if my reference to poop and referring to vile people as dogs is lewd, you also call Jesus LEWD, for He did the same. To wit (Is. 36:12):

“But Rabshakeh said, Hath my master sent me to thy master and to thee to speak these words? Hath he not sent me to the men that sit upon the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?” See? This is scripture, and is not scripture true, and the most appropriate language? This is the Word of God. Furthermore (Phil. 3:8):

“Yes most certainly, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus, my Lord, for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and count them nothing but dung, that I may gain Christ”. See? Nothing wrong in referring to things and to people as dung, or poop, as your very Christian Bible does, in order to freely speak and to effectively make the desired point. Furthermore (Phil. 3:2):

“Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision. For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh…See? The Word of God, referring to you lovers of the flesh as the dogs, and dung, and other LEWD terms. Yet, we live for perfection, and your Lord who uses these “LEWD” terms commands the saints to sew unto the Spirit.

There is MUCH more “lewdness” to fit your lewdness, but I will spare you the pain.

onthestreet said...

ATAR_i said...
No, you despise sinners - you can't even stand the fact that your own prophets make love to their own wives and procreate.
Your stance on this matter is highly hypocritical - to put it mildly. 5/31/2006 7:46 AM

STREET's Reply: Okay, let's be honest. You've been asking me how I know, and was I there?

Ditto: How do you know? Was YOU there? All you have seen is a media frenzy to sell the newspapers, up the ratings, to get rich, to gain fame, in tearing down the very family of people like Anne, and seeking to destroy them, and thinking it cute.

But how do I know? Was I there? I WAS THERE, and not just one night, but for many decades. That's a far cry to one who has merely driven through town a time or two, or worse yet, only read the tabloid rags and swallowed the whole concoction, hookline and sinker.

Talk about gullible. Talk about highly hypocritical. No, worse! Talk about criminal! God is well justified now, in doing what He is now doing in sweeping the nations away. It is that nausious. You are a veritable landfill of garbage, vomiting out your corruption upon innocence, like the foaming mouths of a rabies infested pack of hyenas.

Just because your religion does not despise the sexual animal behavior of your people, doesn't mean our religion doesn't despise it either. We have abandoned an entire city (our own), and the whole world, and secluded ourselves, in order to reject that very thing. In fact, the Prophet continues to cast out people to this day whose immorality comes to light. Your unbelief is part of your crime.

Were you there, TAR? Have you ever even been there (ONCE), to KNOW for sure what you are talking about? Do you enjoy destroying Anne and her family?

I will say no more in this post. I've made my point.

ATAR_i said...

I'll start at the beginning.

Each woman has special femal organs. A uterus and ovaries. The ovaries have eggs. An egg travels down the fallopian tube from the ovary to the uterus once a month. If the egg remains unfertilized, the uterus flushes the lining and the egg out.

A man has an organ as well as testicles, which contain sperm (or seed).

When a man puts his organ in a woman, he plants his seed inside her. If there is an egg, it might be fertilized and implant itself onto the nutrient rich lining of the uterus.

That, is the beauty of procreation. God created us with these parts, and with the desire to have families. He commanded us to multiply and replenish the earth.

Your prophets have done so, and I don't think they would enjoy being called animals - YOU should stop calling them animals.

I also think it's a good idea not to spy on your prophets with their wives (come out of the closet).

onthestreet said...

What you describe and promote, dogs do that too.

Sure, the Prophets plant the seed, but not in that manner. The Prophets are pure, or they wouldn't even be Prophets. God the Father did not put himself into Mary, but Christ and His prophets bring forth immaculately. To be a prophet, you have to be pure, and can't be raping or assaulting women, or doing anything of the kind. No beauty in that, is there?

You promote the very thing that you falsely accuse the Prophet of doing. That is the animal nature in you, and nothing divine. That is your downfall, so Christ and His Prophets, ancient or modern, have nothing to do with you.

onthestreet said...

See, you make yourself a sex-offender, for what you promote and do in private, that is all they have doing who languish in prison. They put themselves into a women, or tried to. There can NEVER be right sometimes, and wrong other times. It is just plain WRONG.

You justify crime, and your own sexual perversions, and promote it in society. Therefore, you are a dangerous sex-offender. This is why the National Security Agency has to monitor you, and they are doing it, whether you like it or not. They are God's ministers.

onthestreet said...

Let me correct a couple typos, and capitalize them:

See, you make yourself a sex-offender, for what you promote and do in private, that is all they have DONE who languish in prison. They put themselves into a women, or tried to. THAT can never be right sometimes, and wrong other times. It is just plain wrong.

ATAR_i said...

Dogs eat.

and

Dogs sleep

Do FLDS prophets abstain from those activities as well?

furnace said...

Warren teaches that sleep is a tradition of our fathers that we have got to get out of our system. He is preaching that those that work in Zion will work 20 hour days and pray for strength to work more.

I don't know about eating, but I understand that those in Zion are quite underfed.

So, yes, Warren is limiting food and sleep.

mugwump said...

The man is a lunatic. Sleep deprivation actually results in lower production and a greater tendency toward the occurrence of accidents and physical injury.

Any idiot could Google that question for an answer.

Food deprivation reduces physical strength, results in the loss of body muscle, effects the mind's ability to make rational decisions quickly and reduces natural immunity to sickness.

I guess if he kills all his people, his chances for arrest increase and his Temple will be siezed for non payment of taxes.

ATAR_i said...

Furnace,

You've spent time with this man, do you have any idea why he would ask this of his workers - do you have any kind of read on his personality that could enlighten us to the rationale on these types of restrictions?

furnace said...

My contact with Warren has all been through middlemen. I have reports of under-nourishment at YFZ, but I have never been there.

onthestreet said...

Angels need neither food nor sleep, and purification lessens the need for those things. However, until that need is lessened, they are well fed and well rested. They're just not sloppy and lazy and gluttonous.

So the work goes on. If they were deprived of proper food and rest, how could a city go up in a day, and continue unabated, if anyone lacked food, rest, or the strength to build a city unto God?

I know, you third-word Americans prefer your booze and sex and your siestas to anything goodly and productive.

Am I wrong? See, then so are YOU. From the looks of Pilot's photos, it is most obvious that they are doing just fine.

mugwump said...

furnace, atar_i et. al.

I have driven on County Road 300 numerous times. I have friends that live and ranch in that part of the county. YFZ is accessed only by a narrow lane that crosses as an easement across the edge of another ranch. YFZ is land-locked. The only locals I am aware of who have actually been onto the ranch are Sheriff Doran, Tax Accessor Sutton, Justice of the Peace (Coroner) Doyle and their deputies, if necessary. Many over-flights have been made and literally hundreds of photographs have been made of the activity at the ranch, the buildings and lately of some of the people. Until recently people present on the ranch attempted to hide themself from view at the sound of the approach of an airplane. What Jeffs & friends did not realize is that YFZ is located under the glide pattern to one private and the public airport in Eldorado.

On three occasions I have been in downtown Eldorado and have seen one person, whom I recognized from a photograph in the Eldorado Success, going into the Public Library. On another occasion I saw a truck parked in the Court House parking lot. The truck had a stainless steel tank on the back. A sign "YFZ Land Company" adorned the side of the tank. The paint of the sign had been removed but the YFZ Land Company name was visible where the sign's paint had been removed. The name was "shiny." I was told that this truck was used to haul sewerage from YFZ to the Eldorado "State licensed sewer plant."

We xirizens continually hear of reports that trucks are constantly in route from feed-lots in the area to the ranch with the muck of the feed lot. Natural soil coverage at the ranch is very shallow. Trees are mostly mesquite with a few mountain cedar (acacia). There are a few Live Oaks along the banks of low lying areas. There is a lot of prickly pear cactus and some natural grasses grow but as a general rule vegetation is sparse.

There are fisures, gullys and draws that criss-cross the landscape. One of these draws, the main drainage of the ranch is Mulligan draw. This draw, when filled with water drains into the South Concho River which feeds into Twin Butes Lake's South Resevoir, Lake Nasworthy, Lake Ivie, the Colorado River in Texas.

Water is a rare commodity and of extreme value in Southwest Texas. By nature average rainfall may be as little as twelve or as much as 25 inches per year. Anything above that amount is considered a flood. WPA & CCC projects during the late 1930's & '40's constructed a series of dams along the Colorado and later it's tributaries. Human and animal consumption of water requires water meet certain standards. San Angelo, a community of approximately 100,000 is dependent upon water from the Concho watershead for all it's water needs. Eldorado, like the YFZ has to get it's water from wells drilled to approximately 400' in depth.

Water has historically been a chief drawing card for citizens of Schleicher County. Drilling of the first water well in the late part of the 1890's began development of ranches in this area. There is no running water in Schleicher County. No creek, brook, branch, river nor lake is present within the county. Water quality and quantity is of vital interest. In addition, at the northern county line one of the largest springs of water in West Texas feeds the South Concho River. That water comes from an aquifer located primarily under Schleicher County.

Photographs indicate that gardens are in early growth, fruit trees have been planted, provisions for chicken & egg production and a dairy have been complete.

An observation: If only ONE of the giant projects were put on hold, the savings could easily feed the entire population with no one having to go hungry. There does not seem to be a shortage of money. Local purchases, taxes, fees, etc. are paid in cash. Why do the people have to suffer? Only that maniac Warren Jeffs can answer that question.

Anonymous said...

Street, have you seen people that have been to YFZ? They look like photos taken from a war prison camps; they are bony and have aged considerably.

One common feature of cults is sleep deprivation. Another common feature is weird sexual ideas--either direction. Some cults go overboard to have sex orgies. Others go overboard to get sex out of their system. Heaven's Gate, for example, went further than immaculate conception. A number of its members, including the leader, actually castrated themselves.

onthestreet said...

Mug Said (6/01/2006 8:09 PM):
An observation: If only ONE of the giant projects were put on hold, the savings could easily feed the entire population with no one having to go hungry. There does not seem to be a shortage of money. Local purchases, taxes, fees, etc. are paid in cash. Why do the people have to suffer? Only that maniac Warren Jeffs can answer that question.

STREET’s Reply: Why do they “suffer”? In your WILDEST and most perverted imagination. If you can photographically make someone look ‘thin’, first of all maybe that person is just naturally thin. It takes a pretty thin brain to chalk that up to STARVATION and abuse, except your own. By your own confession, there is “plenty of cash” to feed the people. The “removing of projects” is just another of your vain hopes, that they might then indeed starve. Talk about a MANIAC. You need a doctor.


Anonymous said...
Street, have you seen people that have been to YFZ? They look like photos taken from a war prison camps; they are bony and have aged considerably. One common feature of cults is sleep deprivation. Another common feature is weird sexual ideas--either direction. Some cults go overboard to have sex orgies. Others go overboard to get sex out of their system. Heaven's Gate, for example, went further than immaculate conception. A number of its members, including the leader, actually castrated themselves. 6/01/2006 8:39 PM

STREET’s Reply: Christ was immaculate conceived. Everyone knows that. Anything wrong with that? Did God committ a crime doing it that way? No abuse there, but just the opposite of abuse. The sire doesn’t touch the dear woman, but loves her with his pure heart and loving smile and intimate support. You don’t have to fondle a woman to lover her. Indeed, that is HATE. Any decent woman who is fondled considers it sexual assault, and the law says so. So why do you persist in considering your assault on your wife or any other woman as something lovely and respectable? People who do that end up in prison, and there is a prison house beyond the vail.

mugwump said...

Soddy-Bottom

God is not physical. God the creator does not require man's method of procreation. Mary concieved without the assistance of any human male.

There is but one God, he has three purposes, Father, Son & Holy Spirit. One God three purposes.

If God could separate himself from His Word during Creation, what would hinder His separating Himself from His Word at the creation of Salvation? The Word (God) became flesh (Jesus) and dwelled among men.

God (The Word which became flesh, Jesus) gave his carnal (fleshly) life in atonement for sin. God, (Jesus) being immortal overcame death and the grave. In doing so he once again retained his position within the Godhead. Only the sacriffice of blood of the perfect "Lamb of God" would suffice for the redemption of sin in all mankind for all time.

No latter day saint, fundamental or otherwise is immortal, dispite any propaganda that would state otherwise. Numbers of Past Prophets have prophesyed their own return, none have, many have prophesyed the imminent end of the earth. We are still here.

In no way would I presume to pacify anyone into believing that the return of Jesus is not imminent. I simply don't know, and according to scripture neither Jesus nor the angels in heaven know, only the Father.

Since the residents of any FLDS or other mormon home is human, procreation proceeds as it does in any other human home in the world. To believe otherwise is to be in a state of altered mental ability or subservient to hulucinatory compounds.

To attempt to argue the mechanics of conception of children with a maniac is an effort in futility.

onthestreet said...

MUDDY SAID (6/02/2006 10:26 AM):

No latter day saint, fundamental or otherwise is immortal, dispite any propaganda that would state otherwise. Numbers of Past Prophets have prophesyed their own return, none have, many have prophesyed the imminent end of the earth. We are still here.

What you say, child? “Despite propaganda”? Other than you suggesting it presently, who is claiming present immortality? Other than you, who is denying that millions will return with Christ? Yet you mock it, proclaiming “None Have”. Other than you, who is denying that there shall be an end-time? Careful my child, lest many begin to consider thee a maniac engrossed in an effort of futility. (Matthew 24:48):


48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Anonymous said...

I have a hard time believing the folks at YFZ are starving. When I lived at the Creek every house I went to during the week always had good food and plenty of it.

onthestreet said...

Righto. They eat better than anyone on this earth, in both body and soul. Huge volumes of food does not make wellbeing, but the quality and ability to assimilate. In the ancient tradition, God's name and number constitute wholeness, and this pertains to food for the body as well as the soul.

Israel ate "manna", and that was NOT the food of man, but "man"-"na" or nada.

The Hebrew for manna is "Man" (pronounced "mawn"). There are seven levels of nature. Which one are you?

M- MINERAL (its nature is that of building blocks): These are the lowest bodies Telestial.

Y- PLANT (its nature is to grow): This is the second degree Telestial

MM- ANIMAL (its nature is to breed): These are the third-degree Telestial.

T- HUMAN-MAN (its nature is to love): These are the terrestrial, honorable "men" of the earth.

A- DI-VINE (its nature is silent expansion, as the expanse of the firmament): These are bodies Celestial, the saints of God.

Anonymous said...

Are you delusional from lack of food and sleep?

Anonymous said...

There are non so blind as THOSE WHO WILL NOT SEE and have IN THEIR OWN MIND CREATED a perfect sphere in which they become their OWN GOD.

rcn

ATAR_i said...

OTS,

Since many of your thoughts appear to be something that FLDS have not heard of, are these new revelations, that perhaps haven't been revealed to others? Are they revelations to you, or to someone else?

mugwump said...

Mentally I think he is currently developing D&C 10,975. What it means, I don't know, neither does he. But he can take the Egyptian papri from the documents used to write "Pearl of Great Price" and you cn learn early burial policy and tradition. This Egyptian is standrd, not reformed. So, any Egyptologist should be ble to translae it.

Solomon Spalding, Sidney Rigdon, Joseph Smith, burial documents and D&C to cover immediate sins. What a wonderful heritage! No wonder your religion is so attractive. YOu can buy your way into heaven! And not only that, you can become god of your own universe on the installment plan.

onthestreet said...

Yes, Christ PURCHASED both salvation and exaltation, WITH INTEREST. But you too must provide INTEREST, or He cannot save you where angels dwell, much Les exalt you where He is.

onthestreet said...

ATAR_i said...OTS,
Since many of your thoughts appear to be something that FLDS have not heard of, are these new revelations, that perhaps haven't been revealed to others? Are they revelations to you, or to someone else? 6/05/2006 2:35 PM

STREET's Reply: Judge ye. You have access to the spirit, if you do right. Otherwise, nothing was answer you satisfactorilly.

Since my thoughts "appear to be...", "Things are NEVER as they appear".

ATAR_i said...

Do you have revelations OTS?

Faithful Woman said...

to anon 6-4-06 8:17

Yes, there has been food aplenty.

That is why it is so strange to see those who went as strong, healthy men on "missions" to YFZ, come back as worn out and gaunt as if they had a severe case of anorexia.

ATAR_i said...

So the men go, and then come back? How long are they usually gone for?

onthestreet said...

Well, Moses was gone for 40-days and 40-nights, without food or drink. I suppose he lost a little excess FAT, BLUBBER, LARD. The camel cannot enter the gate of the city until it unloads its load, and "a rich man can hardle enter into the Kingdom of Heaven", saith the Lord.

ATAR_i said...

How long the men are gone when they work at YFZ?

And, do the men always come back? Or do they stay sometimes?

If you can answer great - if not, ignore the question.

Anonymous said...

Faithful's observations about men coming back from the YFZ are correct.

But some of the forunate men who get to do errand on the outside the YFZ enjoy eating hamburgers,fries and drinking "sodas."

onthestreet said...

Nothing wrong with being born and raised in a stall. So was Christ. Did He turn out pretty bad?

Now did He eat your KWAP, but milk and honey.

onthestreet said...

NOR did He eat your KWAP, but milk and honey.

ATAR_i said...

Don't forget that Christ drank wine - made wine too.

And, he was not raised in a stall - he was born in a barn.

mugwump said...

I'd like a chapter and verse from 6/16 2:22. I guess it's a little hard for you to understand the quotation "The Just shall live by faith." I believe that both Moses, on Sinai, and Jesus in the Wilderness of Judea used that simple yet complex principal while upon their sojourn in the "desert".

Didn't Elijah's food sustain him in the wilderness for 40 days during his time of doubt and flight from Jezebel, following God's victory on Mt. Carmel? Elijah's experience climaxed when God spoke to him in a "Still Small Voice?" God was not through with Elijah yet. He told Elijah to go and anoint kings and to call Elisha as his diciple and the eventual heir to God's Spirit.

Only a fool would attempt to place a limit upon God's power.

(Lest I be reminded of my earlier comment regarding "fool", I call no man a fool, he brands himself when he questions God's authority.)

onthestreet said...

Lord God of Hosts, Be with us yet, Les you Forget, Les you Forget.

mugwump said...

You concentrate on spelling, I'll concentrate on content.

Since you have no valid argument against my sound theology you must have something to attack. Consider my spelling as your bone. Sic em Rover.

Faithful Woman said...

Most common I think is a few months.
Most of the worker bees chosen for that "blessing" go to do a specific job and return to home and family when they are done.
Only the very humble and ... you know, I don't know if there is a specified way to decide who stays, just whatever wj decides. Maybe the compound heavy-hands have a say in the matter also since he surely can't be in every compound at the same time.

onthestreet said...

God is all in all, and everywhere.