Saturday, December 03, 2005

AG's at work again?

I recently heard a blurb in the news that the AZ Attorney General and UT Attorney General had met with the Canadian authorities. I wasn't sure if this was a new story or a rehash. Anyone know what's up with this?

91 comments:

Faithful Woman said...

I saw it too. But it only mentioned Shirtleff, the Utah side. I'm sure it is new.

Anonymous said...

I am sure like all gossiper's that it is something you heard. And the District attorney is going on gossip too, because he has groups that know nothing, trying to force him into playing a card, that would be better left laying.

Anonymous said...

Yes it's true, several reports have appeared in news media. Here's some URL's for stories appearing in news media: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635165924,00.html

and from Canada: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20051202/BCPOLYGAMY02/TPNational/TopStories

Cut and paste to browsers to read articles.

Anonymous said...

In the land of plenty,
Things piled on the ground.
Houses were full,
with people all around.
The sun rose and set.
And people did forget.
They squabbled over this.
They squabbled over that.
They sat in there houses and became lazy and fat.
There toungs did wag about,
Saying they had been left out.
Grumbling and fretting,
Because of what the neighbor's do.
The law of Moses was tramped upon.
The law of Christ forgotten,
Except by a few. Who choose to love, and bless.
Like Christ said to do.
And though the grumblers sat watched,
Waiting for the moment,
They could steal there stuff too. their's lay moldering on the floor.
Just what do you suppose God will do? With the sinner and the saint.
What would you? Suppose he came and put upon you the burden of Judging your neighbor for his life. And you carried the burden of his strife. Could you stand too? The land is empty. The grass grew high. And grumblers grew. And contention was upon the land. And like the generation before; They found out about war too. Saint and sinner. Men came home. Not like the vetran's before, to be mocked and scorned; but to lie, in a grave. For the price they paid. This terrible tradgedy of complaining. And Contention; When God blessed us all.

Anonymous said...

Pretty good as poetry, but much like 'modern' art; the interpretations are limitless. The intensity of the writer is apparent, the meaning somewhat obscure.

Anonymous said...

And like the pages of reality, interpreted by your act's. In the book's the law was writen. And war is upon the land. A man from Arizonia was killed in this war. do you suppose that God likes to be mocked when he blessed us all? Fighting over religion and land is sensless. god gave it all. He gave it all. You fight like pig's why you sit in your house. Why do you not enlist and see what war is really like. Maybe the ones who love fighting so much can go over and give there all for there children to enjoy fredom; like there fathers did. We did not write the book. We did not write the law. It is written; "Do not petition your enimies farther, I the lord, God; will defend Zion." The Lord delight's in the Chastity of woman. Answer the question's yourself. ARe you honost? ARe you serving God? What are your idles? Will you fight in the war, or will you bild Zion? Zion is NOrth and South America. Zion is the pure in heart. ARe you part of Zion? Can you stand before Christ and say you are perfect and are then justified in persicuting your neighbor? Or are you like Core-a-hore? It is Written, As you forgive, so shall I forgive you. What is your great love? What was your choices. After the testimonie of the Prophet comes the testimonie of the wind and hail. The earth shall preach her own sermon. Can you stop a tornado? Are you prepared for war? We are at war. Remember the fate of the persicutors of the Prophet Joseph. And be carful how you mock, lest he delivier. Oh, ye blind that worship stuff; And devils know, and fear and tremble.

Faithful Woman said...

You direct your anger at the wrong source Friend.

Anonymous said...

Anger?

Anonymous said...

Like I said, I did not write the book, or make the law.

Anonymous said...

Book? Law?

Anonymous said...

JESUS CHRIST DID NOT COME TO GIVE THE LAW BUT TO FULFILL IT. HE COMPLETED HIS TASK UPON CALVARYS CROSS. HE GAVE HIS BLOOD AS THE PRICE FOR YOUR SIN.

YOU FIGHT AGAINST EACH OTHER AND AGAINST THE STATE BECAUSE YOU REFUSE TO FOLLOW THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS CHRIST. YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO FOLLOW THE TEACHINGS OF MAN.

YOU HAVE THROWN OUT THE BIBLE AND WHOLELY EMBRACED INFERIOR WRITINGS THAT HAVE BEEN PAWNED OFF TO YOU AS HOLY AND TRUE. YOU ASK WHY YOU HAVE TROUBLE. LOOK NO FARTHER THAN YOUR OWN BELIEF SYSTEM.

NO DOUBT, MOST OF YOU WILL NOT HEED THIS WARNING. IT IS GIVEN TO YOU AS A TOKEN OF GOD'S LOVE FOR ALL OF MANKIND. BUT, BECAUSE OF THE HARDNESS OF YOUR HEART YOU WILL GNASH YOUR TEETH AND RAVE AS MADMEN BECAUSE YOU HATE THE TRUTH WHEN IT IS PRESENTED TO YOU.

fttc said...

From your own statements in this post it is apparent that it is not the Bible you want me to accept so much as it is YOUR interpretation of it. Are you a man or do we have angels or gods participating in this blog?

You make insinuations against JS's works. He was a man (kind of like you) that had an interpretation (like you do). How am I to know that I will be better off following yours than his?

Your statement about the problems we are having and their source is correct only as far as the warrenites beliefs have departed from JS's teachings, which square with Christ's without exception.

Anonymous said...

It is written, "Let there be no disputes among you." It is written, "If a man ask's you to go a mile, go two. If a man ask's you for your cloak give him your coat also." Have you then lived this law. This is Jesus's law.

And I would caution you to think carefully before you lift the sword against God's anointed. For it is also written what the result's will be. They thought in Joseph's day, that if they put him in the grave it would stop this thing. And read the history of these people. Are you sure that you want the same fate. America is not winning this war. Joseph said, "There will not be so much as a yellow dog to wag his tale in opposition, when he came to build again Zion. Joseph is the One Mighty and strong. He will come. He will come with Jesus. Who then will stand the Fuller's fire? And can you kill again the dead, that live? I say make your choices carefully. As you do unto the least of these, so you have done it to Jesus. Are you a peace maker or do you contend with war? AND DEVIL'S KNOW AND FEAR AND TREMBLE. And the wicked never see the miricle's of God. If miracle's have ceased, then it is because of wickedness and unbelief. It is written, God is a man. A reserected man. He has all power. He built the earth in the beginning of the earth, and put all upon it for the use of man. Think then what you do to your own kingdom if you turn from this God. Because he said, this nation will be a God fearing nation, or when they are full of evil continually, he will destroy them. Now make your own choices. The Book of Morman and the Bible is available to every person. It is a history of what God does with all people. He did make the law. He did create you. What did you chose and what did you give back to him? You can only save but one soul.

Faithful Woman said...

Sounds like one preaching Hellfire and Damnation. Did Jesus ever preach doom?

Anonymous said...

It is depending on how you look at it. If you veiw the book's as doom preaching; you are speaking of your own sin's. The Teaching's of Christ always liberate the honest. It is only the liar's and destroyer's that have to worry. The one's who live unto Christ become heir's with him. But since you are a woman, I shall not say too much. God judges woman different than men. And I think that if all the men had been faithful in our church, there would not have been one unfaithful woman. And I think that if all men were honorable, there would be no harlot's in the land. And since you look at the words of the books as terrible, then I shall pray for you. Joseph said there would not be so much as a yellow dog to wag it's tail in oppostition. NOw read that again. In opposition. In opposition. Christ is about to come upon the earth. Wheather you believe it or not. I shall pray for you, that you may be prepared to meet him. that you may withstand the fullers fire and become like the dimiond. That has withsood the pressure. I shall pray for your children too.

Anonymous said...

To Anon 11:44

God will judge women differently than men, get real!! I guess he will judge Black people differently than Whites too??
Wouldn’t that erk the bigots of the FLDS to find out God is a woman!! Maybe even black women, since they were the first people on the earth, . Don't give me the crap about Adam in gods likeness, Adam and Eve are Hebrew myths. The bible was written by men and is very sexist.

Anonymous said...

Each to there own opinion. I know better.

Anonymous said...

If Adam and Eve are Hebrew myths, so is the creator, God. So is Mormonism, and all other protestant and catholic beliefs.

So you might as well, leave this Blog and don't be bothered by all this discussion of different faiths.

As for the Bible being sexist. It is not, you are. I assume you are a woman.

God gave a man his place and a woman her place and the two become one. Equal yoked. If you are not, it is not God's fault, it is yours.

Women have been very important in the Bible and without Women God's plan of salvation would not of been completed. God chose Mary. And she CHOSE to be Jesus mother on earth.

Joseph, Jesus father on earth, was CHOSEN to be part of the plan also. He did not have to agree.

Who stayed nearby Jesus as he was cruxfied. Women! Who first saw him as he was being resurrected. Women!

Eve was blindsided by the serpent, but Adam went into disobediance with his eyes open. They equally both got kicked out of the garden of Eden, which is not in Missouri, by the way.

Even the Book of Mormon knows where the garden is located.


Moses and Aaron's sister, Miriam, was a Prophetness. Other Prophetness' were, Sarah, Devorah and Hulda, more Hebrew myths.

If the FLDS where true to the "Pristhood" as you like to call it, the FLDS would have Prophetnesses, in the Priesthood!

Being a prophet is open to both sexes.

As for salvation. God is no respector of SIN.

Sin will take both man and women respectively to Hell, with Lucifer, when the day comes. Lucifer and his fallen angels knowing the fullness of the kingdom of God, have no salvation, NO SOULS, just the burning pit.

By the way, there are no women Angels.

But man/woman can save their "SOULS" by believing in God's perfect plan of salvation, Jesus. No more, no less.
Man and women are all children of God, born into this world in sin. God came to earth in the form of a baby, a young man and then became an adult man who did not sin and became the perfect blood sacrifice.

Maybe you should read more of those Hebrew myths. You might learn something.

Signed a woman

Anonymous said...

MAY I SUGGEST THAT YOU READ THE 23RD CHAPTER OF MATTHEW'S GOSPEL AND JUDGE FOR YOURSELF WHETHER OR NOT JESUS PREACHED HELL AND DAMNATION. THEN CONCLUDE UPON WHOM THE DAMNATION WAS DECLARED. IT WAS THE RELIGIOUS LEADERS OF THE DAY. THOSE WHO THOUGHT THAT SINCE THEY CONTINOUSLY PERFORMED ALL THE GOOD WORKS REQUIRED BY THE LAW, AND BY TRADITION, THAT THEY HAD ATTAINED PERFECTION. THUS, IN THEIR OWN EYES, NO REPENTANCE FOR THEM WAS NECESSARY.

Anonymous said...

And how do you know that there is not Prophetesses among us? And also, Like wise; there are no woman "son's of perdition" For it is written, "The glory of the man is the woman" And if the man destroy's his own kingdom what has he?

Anonymous said...

May I suggest that you go out into the desert, lie on your back on a clear night and look at the majesty of God's creation, rise at sunrise and see the majesty of His morning, look at your hand and see the marvel of His ingenuity. When you have seen these things then quit worrying about how you should tend to His business. You may then, spend the day tending to your own and aiding those less fortunate. I dare say that you'll have plenty to keep your day pretty full.

You will never be God. Neither was your dad or granddad nor will be your son or sons. There is but one God. To think otherwise is idolatry, man attempting to become god. To do so is a trip into vanity.

You seem to want to discuss these childish impulses as if they were theology. They are not theology. Instead they are me-ology, self justification. Always blame anyting that happens on someone else. GROW UP!

ATAR_i said...

I'd like to make one comment. There seems to be someONE, or several someONES who throw around the word 'Liar' pretty loosely.

Usually it's reserved for everyone who isn't them.

Being a liar means telling a lie - it doesn't meen disagreeing with someone, having a different opinion, or seeing things in a different light than someone else.

It can mean - knowing something to be true, and stating it is false. Or the inverse - knowing something to be false and stating it is true.

It can be in the form of denial. Denying that you did something, which you did, or claiming credit for something you didn't do.

It's bearing false witness - saying that someone behaves a certain way - when they don't. Or saying someone doesn't behave a certain way and they do.

You could also be lying when you state that you know something which you don't.

SO...claims that 'all these people are liars' and broad sweeping generalizations which basically make judgements about people whom you have never met, never heard speak, don't know their name, and wouldn't recognize their face if you saw it - would qualify in definately the gray area of lying - in essence lying.

Firstly, we are all liars (meaning each and every one of us has lied) so I'm going to assume that poster is not talking about the fibs each and every human being has made. Poster is talking about purposeful deception that rises to the level of being evil (is how I see it when their words are practically hissed out in the blog).

So, I see those 'all these people are liars' as being a form of lying. (the kind where you state you know something that you don't). Because you don't know that to be a true statement, because you don't even know who 'all those people' are in most instances (never seen, talked to, don't know their name).

I guess I'm saying that because each and every time I see the word 'Liar' or 'Lier' on this board I cringe - it's a nice escape for the poster - but it carries no weight in my mind.

When I see it - I assume things about the poster which might/might not be true - but are NEVER flattering.

OK - done with that rant.

fttc said...

Thank you! It needed saying.

Anonymous said...

That is funny, Atari; I had to go back and re-read the blog. I could only see that it was you who did scream liar.
And as to the one who thinks men can not become God's; I say each to there own opinion; I know better. It is written in the Bible and the Book of MOrman; As man is, God once was; And as God is men may become.
And I say if you believe it or you do not; each to there own opinion. Now if you go and find God and you can prove to me, what you speak then I shall consider;but as you only have opinion's and claim to know very little about God and persicute people for having a little knowledge of him, well; each to their own. I suppose that is why there are a lot of different churches in America.

Anonymous said...

And to the one who thinks that to want to become like God is vanity; read a little farther. Maybe you will be converted to Christianity. God is love. God is charity. God represent's every thing that is good. Then it behooves men to become like him; Lest they become like Lucifer and be destroyed. And God said that he has a place prepared for all those that turn from him. He say's this is a mercy and that he put's every soul in a place that they can be the happiest to there compasity. A person who does evil is never happy. Happiness comes from knowing you are doing good always. The minuet a person does a thing that is wrong, they are immediatly suffering the consiquenses of wrong. There are only two forces in the earth. Good and Evil. You can not be one or the other. You are either doing good or doing evil every second, and paying the price of the choices you make. And you are right about the liar thing atari. It is written if a man offend you go between you and him alone and make peace.

Anonymous said...

OK, Prophetness? step up to the plate.

Anonymous said...

To anonymous 9:53:

Actually, that quote "As man is..." is not found in any book of scripture. It is certainly not in the Bible or the Book of Mormon. It is from a modern Prophet of God, as quoted, paraphrased, mis-quoted, and improved upon. It loosely describes a true doctrine, but it does not carry the same weight as scripture.

Anonymous said...

Each to there own oppinion.

Faithful Woman said...

and friend still writes Mormon with a "man"

Anonymous said...

This is the boringest and dumbest web page. I wonder why you ding dongs do not get a life.

Anonymous said...

If this is that bad why do you bother? If something is not worth your time, if it is that much of a drag in your own life get rid of it. That what is so awesome about life, you have the choice to not participate in anything that you consider to be fruitless. I honestly believe that people have a hard time grasping this fact. It is so simple and yet so hard.

fttc said...

Ding dong is as ding dong does! Look who is participating, see your reflection in the monitor?

divaqs said...

reply to anonymous 12/06/2005 10:13 PM:

The question of being able to reach godhood is probably one of the most misunderstood and controversial things about Mormonism.

But really, the concept is quite logical once you put all the pieces together.

Assumptions:
1) Following this life there is an ongoing eternal existence
2) Someone can continue to progress (increase in ability and means) and continue to learn throughout eternity

If you consider how much a person progresses in life from the time they are a baby to the time they are in their old age... and then apply infinite time... you can get a sense of the possibilities.

Now, I have heard of some Christians describing heaven as being a place that someone floats around and plays harps forever, in other words a place that nothing substantial is ever accomplished nor learned... and to me that would definitely not be heaven, but hell. I, personally, am not happy unless I am able to have a sense of accomplishment and personal growth. So, a place that I could never accomplish either would be miserable. It is a part of our human nature to try to improve ourselves and our condition.

So, really, it is logical to think that with infinite time and infinite progression, incredible things could be accomplished... even seemingly godlike things.

Anonymous said...

There are really only two possibilities at work here...

Either God limits the progression of even his most righteous followers at some point,

Or He doesn't.

What kind of a Father would put any kind of a limit on the progression of His children?

Anonymous said...

Father warren does.

Anonymous said...

WOW! This post just makes me realize I dont' need tocome to this blog anymore. I am open to religion and what other's believe, but if only everyone could take a step back and read what they have written with an open mind...maybe you would see how insane some of you sound. Insane or just brainwashed..one of the two. There's a bunch of crazy people on here. And believe it or not, I am a very open person to letting people believe in whatever makes them feel good. But this is beyond feeling good. Some of you folks need a lot of help. Peace be with you and may you find your sanity.

Anonymous said...

Oh, just admit it. You're as addicted to this as the next person.

Anonymous said...

Is there a 12-step program for blog addiction?

Anonymous said...

What's this progression? Either you are or you aren't. Humans aren't insects. The Lord holds you in a state of grace until you grow old enough to understand the difference between right and wrong. At that time either you profess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior or you don't. I see no progression in that. Jesus is either your master or you have allowed some human prophet on this earth to fill that spot. Which is it?

Christianity is not like going through Boy Scouts as a Tenderfoot and finally becoming an Eagle Scout or going through the various steps of becoming a member of a particular lodge such as the Moose, Odd Fellows, Eagles or Masons. It's a simple decision.

Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, can He forgive you of your sins, do you trust Him to do so? If you can truthfully answer yes to all these questions then you are a Christian. If you want to qualify the transformation further, than you are not a Christian, and will not be until you willingly come back and face the simple truth of these three questions.

Anonymous said...

Breaking news;
October 1953 Printed in the T-ruth Journal Volume 19 page 130;
A great deal was made of the alleged charge that Short Creek was dedicated to the production of white slaves. In the same breath the Governor lamented the deadly crime of having 236 children. Has anyone in the civilized world ever heard of white slavery producing children? Let this point rest on its merits for it appears too ridiculous to wast intellligent thought upon.

page 133 same volume; How an "due process of law" as guaranteed in the Constitution be administered when the chief law enforcement officer of the State has publicly presumed the guilt of those charged with crimes? Possibly no known document presents such a conclusive presumption of guilt than does the text of The governors speach. With the Governor controlling the powers of law and order in this particular crusade, it looks impossible that the rights of these people can be safe-guarded.
Furthermore, it was common talk among the State officials while raiding, that the community was doomed for destruction; THE land was to be confiscated and the homes burned. ONe of the prosecutors openly stated that he did not wxpect hte children to ever be returned to thier homes!
In the name of heaven, what rights were not violated during this unprecedented raid upon a peaceful community? Homes raided, citizens arrested; private offices ransacked; children kidnapped frim thier homes placed in custody some 400 miles away. while thier father's were in the county Jail.

thus we could go on page after page listing the biolations suffered at he hands of hte raiders, but brevity impels us to desist.

I have been reading this book. I am shocked that our Government has not made any improvementso ver this time. They put out publicly that the children are not taught; Then they raid the schools. They put out publicly that there is white slavery; Then they let people like flora Jessop who is a known drug addickt Publicly Kidnap children, by passing all parental right's.
Let me read on;All these charges must be boiled doen to the presumed charge of Conspiracy to teach and practice The law of Mormon Plural Marriage. In as much as their is no law on the statute books of the State of Arizona against the teaching and practiceo f "MOrmon Plural Marriage", it was necessary to inven laws and make up complaints which would cast the worst possibel cloud over the morals of the men, women and children of the invaded village, hence the all inclusive and far reaching indictment. ONe attorney was heard ot remark that if there had meen more statutes of record, they also would have been included! All this and more to stamp out a peaceful colony of presumed "Mormon Polygamists".
Read on Page 130 1. That a state of insurrection and conspiracy existed with inth e borders of the State. 2. That the STate hads been 26 months working in secresy investigating the people of Short Creek. That this insurrection and Conspiracy is a cancer of a sort, breeding in its wake mulitple cases of Rape, Asultery, bigamy, Child-delinquency, etc.; also dedicated to the production of white slaves, who are without hope of escaping this degrading slavery from the moment of their birth.
and No Crimes Commited
The officers found no crimes being committed among the people. It is presumed that the people were engaged in the practice of "MOrmon Plural Marriage" This system in Short creek has produced a community free from the common crimes of the rest of the State of Arizona. Tje officers found no intoxicated persons, no tabacco users, no molestation of the innocent, no adultery, rape or kindred sins' no indecency of dress or manners. The fathers hononred their familys and the children honored their parents. In short, to quote Juvenile Court Judge Lorna C. Lockwook' "I found the women and children of Short Creek kind and gentile and courteous. Except for their marriage beliefs, the women are excellent in charactrer, we must conclude their marriage system to be superior, though human law might call it a crime. By what streatch of imagination did the Governor feel that hte billage was in a condition of insurredtion? had the citizens ever revolted against political authority, or hte established government? They had been hoest tax-payers. Their schools were operated under the direction of the State Board of Education. Their voting was done legally. Many of their sons were drafted into the armed forces of hte United States, and this without complaint on the part of the parents. Although politicians, Sheriffs and other State officers had convassed the community in their common pursuits of duty, these officers never found condition of insurrection. The worst they were able to say is that he community grew and prospered despite the weather conditions and the lack of natural helps. In short, the raiding party found this comminity to be one of the most patriotic in the State. Upon reachin the school house squae, the task force was red-faced to find themselves arresting Citizen-singing hte national anthem, and soluting hte Stars and Stripes. wHO ARE THE REAL CONSPIRATORS? 2. The State has been 26 months working in secrecy investigating the people in Short Creek. ;;This action in itself would appear to be a conspiracy. In all the 26 months No State commitee was sent into the village to talk over its problems.

WEll at any rate, I could go on for hours. There is a whole entire book written on this subject. I think it looks like Govonor Boggs spirit has taken possesion of a few people and are intent on spreading his filthy lies; and all this why the state lets known pediphiles walk...........And who would give the citazen's a fair trial?????????? Not the State of Utah or Arizonia; They are modern MOrmon's who persicute for living the religion that is written in there books; And in truth; See read the TRUTH book. The history is there; including the manifesto which was written by men, claining to have no athority to the claims of Prophacy and taken to the government and approved before being submitted to Wilford Woodruf for his signature; So they could say; Give up your religion or you lose your house and home. And Like Grampa Jessop said in that day; If it is blood you want take mine. He was an old gray haired man. AND I WOULD ASK YOU WHY YOU FIGHT A WAR YOU CAN NOT WIN. In this book is also written the fate of these people who took up the sowrd against a people for there religion. I say; All you people carrying the devils of the people past; think carefully before you take upon you the same fate as they. And all the while the state ignores the complaints of it People why they insurmount the attrocity's again upon the people of Short Creek. For the same reason. We believe in Following a man. We believe in following a Prophet. It is written that all Saint's followed a Prophet through the history of time. From Adam to Joseph. From Joseph to now. In life or death, we the honost; REMAIN THE SAME!

divaqs said...

In reply to anonymous 12/09/2005 11:28 AM:

You asked:
Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, can He forgive you of your sins, do you trust Him to do so?

Anyone who honestly follows the Mormon persuasion (LDS, FLDS, etc), would respond absolutely "Yes" to all three questions. It is a precept of our scriptures and belief that there is no other way, other then through our Lord and Savior. That is why there is often humor felt that many of the "Christian" sects view Mormonism as not being Christian.

You wrote:
If you want to qualify the transformation further, than you are not a Christian, and will not be until you willingly come back and face the simple truth of these three questions.

Response:
Jesus has the full authority, desire, and ability to forgive each and everyone one of us, as demonstrated throughout the New Testament and Mormon scripture, and as believed by those of Mormon persuasion. There is no question about this.

But, I have to ask you something...
Do you really think someone believes in Jesus if they profess a belief in Jesus in word, but then utterly ignore his teachings?
An example from the New Testament would be the man possessed by a "Legion" of evil spirits, in which the evil spirits recognized who Jesus was and verbally declared it.

Anonymous said...

12/9/05 2:20

I presume you mean the incident mentioned in the eighth chapter of Luke following Jesus having calmed the storm by simply rebuking the wind and water which ceased its tumultuous activity immediately.

This same Jesus, who had just demonstrated total power over nature was met by a man who was living among the tombs who could not be restrained in any manner.

v.28 When he saw Jesus he cried out, and fell down before him and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not. 29.(For He had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For ofentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.) 30. And Jesus asked him saying, What is thy name? And he said Legion; because many devils were entered into him.

It is interesting to note that the devils (many) ask Jesus to direct their immediate future paths because they recognized his ultimate power over them. He sent them into the swine and the swine, upon becoming demon possessed ran into the sea and drowned.

The now clean man, no more demon possessed man asks of Jesus a question of extreme importance, to those of who live, even today.

v 38
Now the man out of whom the devils were departed besought Him that He might be with Him: but Jesus sent him away, saying, 39. Return to thine own house, and shew how great things God hath done unto thee. And he went his way and published throughout the whole city how great things Jesus had done unto him.

The demons had left the man. The man had recongnized Jesus for who he was. When he asked Jesus to become one of his close followers Jesus told him no, to go and share his witness, or the evidence of what had happened to him personally. To me that is what is expected of each of us. Our hope is the future. Our sins past are forgiven, cleansed by the shed blood of Jesus Christ and remembered no more.

How can you bear fruit if you continue to try to drag all your past mistakes along with you? Learn from them, share the experience of those mistakes. Tell others what they can expect if they make the same mistake but don't dwell on those mistakes. They are past, done with, long gone, past tense. Live in the presence in hope through the love of Jesus Christ. He rid the man of the demons. He chased the demons away. The man left the demons behind and told his friends and neighbors of what the Lord had done in his behalf. What Joy he experienced, and is experiencing today in Jesus very presence.

fttc said...

Long-winded Anon 11:47

The LDS church whom you diss in your post have the same claim about following the 'prophet'. You sound like an echo of LDS members I have spoken to. But their prophet has something on yours, he can prove an ordination to the office he claims!

Anonymous said...

4;14 poster,
This is what I like about my religion. I believe like you said; If a person repents of the evil they have done, then it should be forgotten. I like your post. I think that the sins of others should be forgotton. I am not trying to say that a person should be allowed to continue to abuse, but forget and forgive. That does bring peace to many souls. Jesus did not come to condemn. He put out his law, that men may have joy. In truth only honesty and deciency brings joy. God said, leave judgement to me, for it is mine. We are required to forgive all men. God will forgive who he man. And F.L.D.S. believe in the teachings of Christ. They in truth believe in all good things. All good things come from Christ. And all tribulation turns to the good of the honest, if they believe in this Christ.

And fttc; you are the most contentiouse person . I know what the Mormon Church teaches. Do you think that is my issue. That is the great glory of America. A person can believe and worship, who and where and what they may.
The main stream Mormon Church has a large congregation. I say more power to them. I say that we have the same books. We LIVE the same teachings that the Prophet Joseph taught. I was copying right out of the Main STream MOrmon Church book. I know that I made some type errors but I was copying from there book. It was published by the Mormon Church as gospel, and available in 1953. So get a life.

fttc said...

It is not my desire to be contentious. It IS my desire to point out the hypocrisy of your statements. If my stating the truth becomes contentious to you where does that leave you? I only want to wake you up to what you are doing and saying. Only when you realize that will you see the fallacy of following this false prophet.

As far as you quoting any LDS literature, the only reference you give is the Truth books. These are not LDS written or approved. If this was the typing error you refer to perhaps I can understand your reply. If not here is another fallacy you are laboring under.

I also noted that you had no reply for my statement about warren's being ordained. There is a good reason for it I presume.

Anonymous said...

Just remember you are talking to Ruth.

Anonymous said...

In 1953 the Truth books were printed and distributed by the Mormon Church. In it is an account of the raid. In it is also the teachings of Brigham and other's. In these books there is the history of Mormons. I do not say this to cause you distress. I think you have enough with out me. but since you slander for a lifestyle, it would be nice if you had all the truth. I thought that it was interesting how a few disenters stired up the gevernment to persicute, and they used the exact words that are being used now. They used the exact excuses. They said there was white slavery. They said there was cohabitation. They said that they were brain washed and all the rest that is said today. I guess that if it is true that history repeats itself, I would not want to be one of the ones who stirred people up to insurection. The story told in this truth book should be enough to wake any one up. In this book is also photographs of the old houses built. At the end of the governments investigation and kidnapping of a group of children, they concluded that the houses were very well built. Now if that was the governments assesment in 1953; guess what; the houses are fine. The people here are educated. They have the best fire department. They have the best nurses. They have the best search and rescue. The schools are well run. Students get on the honor rolls. The teachers are hard working. The students are not getting into trouble, for the most part. There are no white slavery. People are not traded over the border. In truth this is a great place to live. I do not want the traditions of the world in my life. Christ said, "Come out of her, oh my people and be not partakers of her sins." He also said, "Gods ways are not mans ways."

fttc said...

Please forgive me, you threw me off by not using your trademark Morman. I didn't realize which Anon you were.

Anonymous said...

Ruth, the Mormon church was NOT publishing the Truth Magazines. They were published by Joseph Musser and the Church was trying to prosecute him for mailing "lewd and obscene" literature in the form of the Truth Magazine as early as 1944. Get your facts straight.

Anonymous said...

Winston Blackmore went to the AG's summit as a reporter for the North Star Chronicle. A new twist, but he promised to write the report in his newsletter.

That is what this thread is about still isn't it?

fttc said...

Does that mean he will soon be putting out another newsletter? He hasn't been very punctual at printing them.

Anonymous said...

In these truth books is the truth of the raid. In these truth books is an account of what happened in that day. The reason that the Arizonia Government did not succeed in this raid and extermination then is because other country's opposed it. We are supposed to be the greatest country upon the earth. We are supposed to be ones that support religious freedom. We trumpet our own streanth and persicute others for there religion. The media does not portray the truth. They did not come in and film a succesful teacher, or a succesful paramedic. They did not come in and vidio the Fire department, or anything good. They go out and find the failures and exploit them to further their adjenda of religious persicution. And the only ones who are supported by the law in this area is those who will fight against the Church here. And fttc; you yourself said that you was hoping they would self distruct. SO I SAY AGAIN; BE CAREFUL YOU DO NOT DRAW UPON YOU THE SAME FATE OF THOSE WHO THOUGHT THEY WERE SMARTER THAN THE ONES BEFORE. READ THE HISTORY AND FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THESE PEOPLE. GOVENOR BOGGS. THE POLICEMEN. THE SON OF THE GOVERNOR. READ IT ALL. IF HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF, BE CAREFUL YOU ARE NOT ONE OF THE ONES WHO PERPETUTATES THE HAUNS MILL, DEBATE. TIS BETTER TO SUFFER PERSICUTION THEN TO PERSICUTE. AND WHEN CHRIST CAME TO RESTORE THE LAW, THE PEOPLE KILLED HIM TOO. DO YOU CARRY THE CROSS OR DO YOU CARRY A SWORD? WHAT YOU CHOOSE, SO SHALL IT BE.

Anonymous said...

And what you give will come back upon you tenfold. This is a universal law. God said the reason he allows great calamity to come upon people is because they do not turn to him in the day of peace. And it has been said, that the value of peace is never fully appreciated until the day the war is faught and ends. Then people remember the worth of getting along inpeace. Read the account of the The Indian people. Read the account of the Negero. Read the account of the Jews. Read the account of all persicuted people. Hitler promised the Jews a new country and exicuted them. Cortess came a pirate and was worse than Hitler. These indians were peacable people. And God remained the same. He put the same law for all people. He put the same teachings for all. He is no respector of persons. We have had Two World wars in our recorded history. WE have had a cival war. Is it right pertnint that there be another World war. When Anti Christ can inflict there law upon Cristians and say they do it it ensure religious freedom; Twould be better to stand like Nathan Hale. For God has said, this country will be a god fearing people. And if they turn from Christhewill turn from them. Now if there is no Good upon the nation, what have you? For all good things come from Christ. And there is none good but through him. Nathan Hale faught for religious freedom. Like many others who lie the grave for the countrys war; And I would remind you that snow is upon the city of new Orleans. Many thousand displaced Americans are begging to be able to keep their homes in this cold. Do you not suppose your money would be better spent than to squander it on religious persicution. Do you think that maybe you could lay the tradition of spending for christmas and help a misfortunate person. Or would you think you are just to spend on usless ornaments and Call yourself Christians. WE are at war. Read the account in the book of Mormon where in people loved war so much that they swore to fight and what was the result. All the People lay upon the ground. That is what war and emnity does. That is what hatred and persicuton leads too. What price is there for anger? I say anger feeds upon anger. Peace brings peace.

onthestreet said...

Faithful Woman said...Sounds like one preaching Hellfire and Damnation. Did Jesus ever preach doom? 12/04/2005 11:07 PM

STREET’S Reply:

Matthew 10:
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

fttc said...

Anon 12:45
I take your warnings kindly. Though you abuse and condemn me. You listen not to what I say but hear what your leaders tell you I say. When you get the most defensive is when the truth is diplayed in front of your eyes. It is only natural. When you get done with your ranting and your energy level is reduced you will then have to take a breath and the truth will sink in. Truth will prevail.

Anonymous said...

Ya, Know fftc; a liar is a liar. You know. Look in the mirror. See what you see, and tell your self; Truth is truth. Truth is truth. And we do know a liar when we see one. That is why we stay away from you.

Anonymous said...

And by the way it was you that told me you was a liar not him. So can it. Doodle doo.

Anonymous said...

And when you take our freedoms away, What do you expect us to think of you? That you was pretty why you scammed us. Get a clue; one who you mock and call brain washed coming back at you.

Anonymous said...

Or as Flora said, One of America's lost, coming back at you. And who would have cared? I heard what you all said. Just as though I was not there. America's living dead.

Anonymous said...

Written in the pages in the book are your veiw of me. With out a word or a thought of me, they marked it up. Write they said of me. It is a talent that you have. Then they smiled at me. But when I asked about my daughter, they told me to forget. Then they marked their paper more. you can not sue the state they told me, you need evidence. They made there books look cute, just as if it was true what they said. America's living dead. We have to make our papers cute, in case you really sue, sign right here please; so we can help you. America's living dead. And they claim we have rights you see.

Anonymous said...

And fttc, And you b-----had it all on film, but we were brain washed you see. Just cut it and edit it, so you could have another victum. No one would really know the truth. We were the brain washed from the creek. So fttc; stuff it in your sock. Uncle Warren will not lose. You already did. And he built another City. And you make a mock of him. I am his. If I am sane or crazy. I am his. In life or in death. He has claim upon me. And you and your money and filthy lip; mean nothing to me. I seen with my own eye's Ameica's Gauntlet, preserved for the lost of the creek. I walked your gauntlett and listened to your crap and talk. I heard with my own ear's what you all thought of me. And I care not one whit for your opinion. If only I can mock you for persicuting him. I have done something good. One of America's lost coming back at you. And flora with her exploiting. And Laurie Allen is a Flora too. I curse the lot of you. I have a right too. I walked your gauntlett and lived. Amrica's living dead.

Anonymous said...

And those of the faithful in the Creek have no use for you, as you can tell.

Anonymous said...

And though you love and admire Warren Jeffs, look at what he has done to you and your family and friends. You have nothing left and you are still his. You will never learn at this rate.

You may think the media lies and those who have tried to help you. (b)But ignorance has always asaulted intelligence.(b) Your mockery makes us realize even more, why we do not want anything to do with Warren Jeffs.

Anonymous said...

Gee, what a compliment; I do not get to be rescued by a lesbian who screams at me and tells me I am brain washed. Gee ain't I lucky. I do not get to be rescued by a woman who goes to Canada and tries to tell them that they have to eliminate all the Canadians, and say she had a hidden camera and rescued me, when in truth I was already out side of my city and wanted to go home. And tells them she excaped too, by jumping out the window. And Colorado has caught one of the men. I have not lost yet. And It was Warren Jeffs who stopped this abuse of me, and Laurie Allen took advantage of me. I did not and never will support lies. She lied to me. That is that. I do not need people who take advantage of me. So, I mock you then. You and your liberty. Like Flora's locked door and drug's for the ones she tried to rescue too..... And frankly we do not need that kind of help. And to be his is the greatest gift I could have. And he has never hurt me. He has only helped me. So, burn the film. I never take blood money. I never do any thing based on lies. I never want glory that bad. Honest friends, yes. Traitors no.

Anonymous said...

And hopefully you people do not like me so much that you never come again to Colorado City. And maybe I will be lucky and you will never hear about me again. or anything about me. Maybe I will really never touch a computer again. Maybe we will be lucky and we will never meet again.

Anonymous said...

It is good to read and understand that there are still a few of you who are capable of rational thought. For the most part those who post seem to have an agenda of babble and nay-say. Your posts make no comprehendable sense to anyone attempting to develop a coherent understanding of your intention. I applaud fttc. Of all posters his posts seem to be the most plausible. May I suggest that the rest of you go back to the fourth grade and attempt to learn to form a sentence with a subject, verb, and predicate. You may use a few adjectives, adverbs, prepositions, conjunctions and other parts of speech to make the sentence understandable. Being able to be understood is a key element in winning an argument. If no one, who might be normally neutral understands your position because of your poor grammar and spelling, your argument looses credibility. Think about it.

Men In Black said...

(b)But ignorance has always asaulted intelligence.

Wow that says it all! In this parallel universe or reality two words seperate fact from fiction, reality from absurdity, but both sides will say whose! Minority vs Majority depends on that geography or real estate you happen to be standing on!

This said, the fact that a world beyond see's this as folly (a majority) and that same world can tally the government monies spent on it, states that law makers are concerned and are reacting. The meeting last Thursday between Wally Oppal the new B.C. Attorney General, replacing Geoff Plant was real enough for Winston Blackmore to introduce his opportunity to counter that meetings view. Its really interesting to read a post as a rumor, then two weeks later to see the published or documented outcome. The meeting was long in planning, so a rumor it was not.

Mark Shurtleff looking at other groups beyond the FLDS has turned his interest into a priority of his present term or administration. This was quoted by him in the press, it is not a rumor!

Candidates in Arizona for both AG and Governor have already been quoted as concerned and have used Colorado City as a political platform concern, this is not a rumor. When Terry Goddard asked the US Dept of Justice for help in investigating civil rights violations by the Colorado City Police officers, its was both sincere and political, timely because of his reelection needs and interest for November 2006.

The reason I am establishing a resource center for atleast 100 of Warren's cassettes is that media and politicians want these, but up front don't know which ones! No one wants to pay for the reproduction of these, so I am passing these to a non profit to determine guidelines for their access. Rumors are those lines that can not be proven, like the emails I get and are unwilling to share or talk of. Candidates that have publicly allowed quotes of their interest, concern or intent, are in the realm of fact and well read and documented for mass consuption.

Because of the US Dept of Justice inquirey, the one that Terry Goddard requested, it is a given that more than just state agencies are interested in fact finding concerns.

If and when you see MIB in Colorado City, it won't be for personal pleasures, but rather as eyes and ears for some involved and yet unidentified agency. Now thats a rumor! Though a rumor more likely true than fiction. If I am taking pictures, then one might assume that those pictures have a greater purpose than album collecting. I wouldn't go to Colorado City without purpose, thus a rumor based part in fact is born!

Take it as Gospel, several agencies are interested in Colorado City and the timing may be enhanced by 2006 being an election year.

MIB

Anonymous said...

oh, believe me; Men in black. We know your intent. We know that the government is using our town as its kicking ground. We believe you.
And as to the one who said, that the other posters do not make sense. let it be. There are some who are educated. Most are. Just do not talk to the idiot. And to hell with the whole of you.

Anonymous said...

And maybe why they are at it, they will change the way St. George and Flagstaf does there law job.

Anonymous said...

And when they begin to want to look at law and not prosicute religion, well more power to them. But to steal a mans church tapes and persicute him for teaching?????I have heard preachers talk of a lot of idiotic things. Why do you not start with the preachers in your community's and start to highlight ever word they say???????? Oh, men in Black we know your intent. And you have a perfect name. Black as the midnight sun. And we already know that nobody cares about the people here. Just your adjenda.

Anonymous said...

If a preacher other than Warren starts preaching blood atonement, I can guarantee there will be media and government scrutiny.

Men In Black said...

When human rights become more important, than a relgious right that protects a dictatorial power and wealth hungry leader, then and only then will government interest relax. If not lost in the blind fog of your defense, you might remember the "lost boys" and another 1,000 apostates forced out in the past few decades, yourself included. In the Edmond-Tucker Act polygamist were not permitted to vote, serve on a jury or own property. Property rights and forecable detainers to evictions is what Rodney Parker specialized in for removing apostates from the land. Its not to degrade the chosen lifestyle, but it was illegal long before Colorado City or the UEP was formed. The issue within the mainstream church in 1890 was the loss of property per the Temple in SLC. So its suddenly OK for polygamist to evict non polygamist, your family and relatives, but is it really protected under the law?

Welfare fraud that is documented, along with human rights abuses, in an environment that teaches races to be sub human because of pigmentation, rather than actions? In like thinking one pit bull, caused all dogs in town under the one man rule ideology to be ordered killed, do you remember Uncle Freds order? Judging all gentiles, all Jews, all blacks, all apostates or all dogs, by the actions of a few, defines the cult mentality. I rather imagine the creekbed is still cluttered with the skeletons of alot of canines!

Warren's cassettes may be determined disagreeable to a larger society, but unlike your comments, I am not suggesting these to be his lies. They are what the faithful believe, they are the truth as Warren see's it. If you follow the man, then these are the truth as you define it. How can you fear placing a spotlight on the truth? This blog offers a truth from one side or the other and both sides lend a truth as each see's it. If Warren is so rightious, then lets his words speak. These are without doubt his speech and truth, his truth and the one many here were taught from birth.

A man on the lamb, running from the law, is not like any preachers in my area and if others like Warren existed, the FBI would be listening just as intently. Let Warren defend what he has dedicated to audio, unless of course you consider him your equal. The audio's say more than enough and I see no need for tax dollars to support more than just racial hatred. Have you really listened to whats on these cassettes?

I know far to much about Colorado City to be answered by lines of misinformation and more silly is the replys offered that all agencies can read and do. I have said you have an audience here, so the question of intellect is a fair one. The 12-3-05 post about the AG's meeting as rumor was fair to the uniformed, but now in the past, its obvious that a trip to Canada was well thought out and planned, prior to the 12-3 posting. As these are all archived dialog, statements that sound confused or uninformed, give to much away. You may kid each other, but the media, law enforcement and politicians are not relying on statements here to make plans on. Its entertainment and a window into the mindset of someone raised in a religious sect.

The Southern Poverty Law Center was tracking this blog durring designation stage of their report on Hate Groups and continues to track and follow this site and others. With OTS and Ruth as self appointed spokesman or women of the faith, the window I speak of is defended by those more extreme, but the chatter or defense moves beyond these two. Are you or they really serving your or their best interest and if you think so, reread 6 months of chatter. Its OK with me, it justifys reports filed 5 years ago.

Take Vanessa Rohbock, her story was reported and investigated by the RCMP 3 years ago. Boundry County Sheriff started the inquirey and the faithful denied the risk concerns. Once Winston chose to document the same story in his Jan. 2005 newsletter in "Share The Light", he confirmed what was earlier denied. This blog works the same way, if what you say today, is proven wrong tomorrow, then you have helped prove a point, one that does not serve your best interest. This brings us back to both the statement of intellect and; (b)But ignorance has always asaulted intelligence.

If I do not post for weeks or months at a time, what does that really mean? When you rant and rave, whose interest are you serving, yours or mine? Don't think about it to much or your response might disappoint me.

MIB

Anonymous said...

gee men in black, you are intersting. This web page is not in any way speaking for any one. It is a web page for idiots.

Anonymous said...

And who cares men in black if you are disappointed? Who cares men in black. You try to get people eliminated for there culture. Who cares men in black what you think. Be greatly disapointed! I will tie my shoe and wink at the moon and stars. Men in black. who cares what you think.

Anonymous said...

And I read some of John Daughtery. Just the headlines of course. I will say again. Who cares what he says either. How about printing something true now. Do not bother. Who cares. persicuting Religions are is not my cup of tea.

Anonymous said...

I should not call you men in black. I should call you Jay Beswick; active anti-polygamist; one who would eliminate others for there culture. And nobody I know carries weapons. And idiots are not spokespersons. And who cared any how? NOt you. NOt you. You helped take some out of here. To be exploited. Start with arresting yourself then. NOw you try to say there is a law against it. If you are going to air dirty Laundry start with your own. Who really cared then? NOt you. NOt Flora. NOt Justace for children. NOt help the child brides. NOt any of you. Not any of you. so who cares what you think. And this is a web page for idiots. Who cares what you think Jay Beswick?

Anonymous said...

And on the same token; who really cared about me? Who cared any how. If I had not been born in Hildale Utah, I would just be another bag lady. ding dong who cares about all the homeless who wander your street? Help them today then Jay beswick. Get these organizations interested in helping them. Get them interested in doing some thing useful. Who cared any how? ding dong. Just politics. Just a race for politacle glory. ding dong. ONe man, one woman vote. But do you really want to arrest every cohabitating man in america. Be my guest. Start in your own streets to make your reform. ding dong. This is an Idiot web page. No sensible thinking person would ever participate on it. ding dong.

Faithful Woman said...

how do we put a "roll the eyes" icon on here?

Anonymous said...

@ @
"
(~~~)

Anonymous said...

Sorry, it didn't work.

Anonymous said...

# #
@
!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

How was that; roll the eyes ding dong.

Anonymous said...

@ @
@
$$$$$$$$

or that.

Faithful Woman said...

cute, at least the first two were

onthestreet said...

Anonymous said...
If a preacher other than Warren starts preaching blood atonement, I can guarantee there will be media and government scrutiny.
12/13/2005 1:54 PM

Righto. This is because they know that the Prophet Warren's preaching is scriptural. Blood atonement has been preached since the Garden of Eden.

onthestreet said...

Yaal get all the venom outayayet, or you still the snakes you always were?

Anonymous said...

hisss

ATAR_i said...

OK, someone wanna fill me in - what's up with the Ding Dong's?

"It's like,.. getting excessive" (throwing in some Valley Girl)

I might hafta start speekin gangsta (or valley) just to show you how annoying it can be after the 100th time

Fo shizzle my nizzle

Anonymous said...

Atar_i the Ding Dong is Ruth. She seems to like the word. Everything is Ding Dong, Ding Dong. She likes to sprinkle the two words among her posts.

Yes it is bothersome.

onthestreet said...

Hey, it's Christmas!!! Don't ya know. She's just one who has the Christmas Spirit, if nobody else on the forum does. Way to go, (T)ruthy!.

ATAR_i said...

Well thank God - at least you admitted it IS Christmas.