Monday, November 21, 2005

Milton and Lenore's children

Discussion for those interested in the children.

61 comments:

rumor-has-it said...

I heard that Lenore is trying to get her children into state custody. Does anyone have the details?

Anonymous said...

Why would she want to put her own children in the states custody? Sounds rather odd don't you think? Mostly the state comes in and takes children away from the parents for neglect. Is she admitting the neglect and wants the state to protect them from her? Please give us the details if anyone has them.

Anonymous said...

that is not always the case, children are turned over to the state for a variety of reasons. You do not have to admit to abuse or neglect.

Anonymous said...

Is this considered Foster Care?

Anonymous said...

Isn't turning your children over to the state/foster care an admission in itself that you are at least neglecting them or are in a postion that they may be neglected?

Anonymous said...

Lenore is trying to save her children from abuse.

They are at the Roundy ranch in Idaho and there are allegations that sexual molestation is occurring.

She is not being allowed to contact her children.

I guess her only hope is if CPS gets involved and removes the children from their current danger.

Lets hope that the state will intervene.

Anonymous said...

However one may look at it I think the children will get the idea that they are not wanted. It is an unthinkable choice IMO. With all the extended family that Lenore must have she should be able to get help without saddling the taxpayers for caring for her children. Is there really no relatives that will help her?

Anonymous said...

I thought Lenore's residency was in CC? How did the children get clear up in Idaho? I personally know the Roundy family up there. I do not believe for a minute that U. Bill would allow any kind of abuse. I worked for several years with him and his boys. They are not that kind of people. You will not find better people anywhere. Where do the allegations come from?

Anonymous said...

Lenore, is a very abusive woman. It would be a great tradgedy if the state gave this woman anything. Her children went to live in Idaho, because she put them in a car and was going to end there life. They do not need to be in state care. They need to be with those who love them. I say leave them with their GrandMother. Those children were getting beat every day. She would put on a pretty face for the media, because she was screaming about our church and then she would go get stoned and beat the ---out of her children. I say leave the children alone.

Anonymous said...

And Frankly, any one who knows Lenore knows this is true. I think the people who know her and do not speak out in the defence of these children are as quilty of abuse as she is.

rumor-has-it said...

Milton and Lenore have eight children that are under sixteen. !!!
I am glad that Uncle Bill and his family would be able to help her keep the children together. Eight children is ALOT. I don't know anyone that would take that kind of responsibility and not ask the state for help. They are more stable than they have ever been in their life. More love than they have ever had and discipline.

Lenore is not able to take care of them. period. She is a very unstable person. The only person more unstable than her is Milton.

I have visited the children and they are happy and content. I seriously doubt any molestation charges. The children are never left alone by them selves and always have a mother present. Which is alot more than was happening with Lenore.

I wonder what Lenore has up her sleeve.

Anonymous said...

I do not think that Lanore has any thing up her sleeve. I think she is an addict and does not think from one moment to the next.

Anonymous said...

I know the members of the Roundy family that are caring for Lenore's children. This made me curious so I checked up on it. I was told Milton took the children to the farm in Idaho becuase they were getting neglected. His mother is married to Bill Roundy. That is the connection they have there. The children are very happy and content as RHI stated. They are in school and are able to live as normal a life as can be expected under the circumstances. Milton has come occasionally for a visit and stayed overnight several times with them. Lenore has been up several times but has never stayed more than a few hours.

The other side of the story on the abuse and not letting Lenore contact her children is interesting. There is really nothing to either story. The oldest boy was convinced by his stepbrother to run away and live with him. He had to come up with something to get his mother excited enough to let him as she had legal? custody. (That part is a real mess.) So he fabricated the abuse story. Several times Lenore has called to talk to the children but she spoke so abuseively to the Grandmother when she answered that she was hung up on. Other times when she has called the children were not home for one reason or another. No one has purposley kept Lenore from speaking to her children except Lenore.

After getting more of the details I pray for the sake of the children that Lenore does not accompllish her goal in getting them back.

Anonymous said...

The children were being abused back when we were all in school. Lenore and Milton are not at all what the public persona makes them out to be.

Anonymous said...

I think "sexual abuse" are Lenore's bywords. This family is not the first to suffer her accusations.

Anonymous said...

I was not impressed with Lenor's motherly skills from what little I saw of them. And she was particularly anoying at the town hall meeting when the UEP was first taken from warren's hands.

Anonymous said...

And like I said, "Any one that knows any thing about Lenore, knows she was abusing her children. Milton stood by and let her. It is insane that some one would say these children made up the abuse. She is a very abusive person."

ATAR_i said...

Sounds like a confusing situation. It's interesting how at the beginning of this thread, when I started reading I had one opinion, and at the end another.

Whomever is looking in on the kids - kudos to you. Making sure someone elses kids are doing well and giving those that care about them feedback is very kind.

Anonymous said...

The Roundy Ranch is not the happy, carefree place that has been portrayed.

Lenore has some problems, but don't believe all of the lies that have been posted here about her.

There are 2 sides to a story and remember that the Patriarchy wants the children in their fold. Which means in someones custody other than Lenore's.

Anonymous said...

Let's be more specific. Which are the lies? Why are not the children better off where they are?

fttc said...

It would be very interesting to hear Lenore's side of all this. She can post here as well as anyone else. I say let her tell it.

Anonymous said...

She should be able to make as good a defense as Ruth! Maybe Ruth could be her counsel.

Anonymous said...

I didn't think anyone portrayed the Roundy Ranch as carefree. U. Bill is a man with rules for behaviour and he sticks to them. He always has, and anyone who has spent some time with him knows this to be true. At the same time he is a very softhearted, kind man. Those around him toe the mark, so to speak, or they will hear from him. This has been excellent for these children who have had very little discipline in their lives.

On the other hand anyone who can claim that it is not a happy place has not been there. I have seen it for myself as well as haveing others tell me the same thing. There is just a feeling of contentment and satisfaction in the air there. It seems to be infectious to those who visit.

Anonymous said...

Milton abused his children before he ever hooked up with Lenore, so why would it make any difference to him if she was abuseing her own kids?

Anonymous said...

how dare any of you talk about this woman in this way. if she's physically or sexually abusing her children?... pick up a phone and call the authorities, otherwise who are you all to say anything? especially in a public forum. you guys are some of the most un-christian like people i've ever come across.

if the general populous had the same attitude as you guys? we wouldn't be sending investigators to CC.... we'd be sending Bulldozers.

keep sweet eldorado
stg

Anonymous said...

The authorities are well aware of Lenore's situation and have voiced their satisfaction with how the children are being taken care of at this time. The parents are now under a court order to get divorced. It remains to be seen what will happen to the poor kids.

One involved.

fttc said...

I would agree with you STG if Lenore had not put herself in the public spotlight. It was she who ran to the media and they loved it. When someone willingly puts themself in the spotlight to further their agenda I think they open the door to public scrutiny.

I do agree that the cops in CC should have done something about the children years ago because they knew what was going on. And yes, the neighbors could have done more too.

Part of the problem is that CPS had taken other children from their parents over things that were not abuse in any way. It makes you think twice about reporting abuse. This is not right, but unfortunately it is a fact of life.

I have a diffucult time believing that everytime you have seen someone treating a child unkindly you have notified government authorities.

Anonymous said...

STG, funny you would put it that way because well those of us who are from the creek are often accused of damaging the lives of people that we don't like. Yet those of us who have left and still have an opinion can not be validated either. I know that what was happening in that home, before and after milton and lenore got married was of great concern to many people. Trouble is just because you know or can see that something is going to happen does not give you the right to tell them that they can not make that choice. There were issues that stem back at least eight to ten years in that family. Now it is easy to sit here and point fingers at everyone who should have done something about the situation, and much harder to understand the motivations behind why they did not. The other issue is that many of us are dealing with our own family issues and have no desire to call attention to ourselves and face the consequences of that attention. When Lenore made the choice to seek attention from the media, she made the choice to open her life up to public scrutiny and questions.

fttc said...

Anon 3:56

Thank you for clarifying my points. You stated it much better than I did.

Anonymous said...

"When Lenore made the choice to seek attention from the media, she made the choice to open her life up to public scrutiny and questions."

since when? She went to the media to give attention to the fact her 16yo daughter ran off with a 39yo married man and the cops failed to cooperate. I'm thinking that's pretty damn good reason. Because she did it's now ok to fling mud at her??? but even take Britney Spears for instance. she makes ten's of millions from media attention. you can say anything you want, fling all the mud you can muster, she's a media free-for-all but... Say that you're privy to the fact that she harms her new baby or the likes? Start spitting those kinds of rumors around in the media? Better be right. Better know what you're talking about. Better be expecting a civil case or even jail time if you're wrong. there's laws against that type of crap. it's called "slander"

...now apparently you guys KNOW something about her that the public doesn't but, hell, have a little class.

"I have a diffucult time believing that everytime you have seen someone treating a child unkindly you have notified government authorities."

now i'm not sure of what you mean as "unkindly",my definition doesn't condone such criticism as above, but...

I know a woman who had a mentally handicapped 8yo girl who was very difficult to manage. One day in a supermarket the little girl got angry and began punching and viciously biting her. The woman had to wrestler her to the ground to get her to stop. the police were called in. There was no arrest but the incident was reported to CPS. The CPS did follow up.

I had a friend who bragged that he was "old school" and believed in corporal punishment for his kids. One day, another one of our (his) friends noticed some small bruises on the back of his little girl's legs. His "beliefs" ended up costing him 60 days in jail, 2 years probation and mandatory counseling.

while back, my wife spotted a couple driving around with an infant on the mother's lap in the front passenger's seat. she called the police. the couple was ticketed and warned the next time they'd be arrested and their car impounded.

... now if that's what you're talking about, the answer is YES... we do it all the time.

"The other issue is that many of us are dealing with our own family issues and have no desire to call attention to ourselves and face the consequences of that attention."

In a free world kids are people too and are entitled to all the same protections that adults have. When the parents fail, the kids need an alternative source. Friends and family may help, but the ultimate responsibility rests on the shoulders of society and our government.

Exemplified by your own comment. The problem's not Lenore nor the media, nor uncle bill, nor even good 'ol uncle warren... the problem is you. You're exercising the outer extent of the freedoms allowed you, which is actually ok. Freedoms should always be challenged, laws always questioned, it's part of the fabric of our society. But the problem is that you're doing so at the expense of your own children's rights and protections... that's NOT ok. In fact it's downright criminal.

If Lenore feels reason to call the CPS, the CPS better damn well show up and get to the bottom of all this and i don't care how good a person you think "uncle bill" is or wacky she may be. It's NOT up to you.

... again, apparently you KNOW something about Lenore that we don't. Perhaps you might share some of these things with us. One thing that seems to separate you and "those who left" is "they" tend to name names, dates, facts, specific events. whereas you guys? so far, lots of accusations, name calling, double talk, finger pointing and bunch of smoke.... might help explain my "unkindly" attitude

keep sweet eldorado
stg

Faithful Woman said...

Aren't there some kind of rules that you can publicly criticise a public figure? Like the president of the United States or a movie star?
When a person puts their own name in public, they are a public figure. Lenore fits in that category, as does Ruth, and yes, me too.
That doesn't mean we can't stand up for ourselfs, it just means we have to be big enough to handle it.

fttc said...

STG

Now I'm really confused. You condemn the discussion of Lenore, then you say we have the right to do it, then you ask it to continue.

I know those in and from the creek know much more about Lenore than you can ever understand, hence the defensive position you take. I applaude your efforts to defend someone you think is getting slandered, but really, slander is untruth told about a person by my understanding.

Here is a woman that is really not fit to have custody of her children. What has been stated here is the truth and those who are involved know it. When it is brought out that she is up to some legal manuever to get her children isn't it imperative that those in the know let others know how wrong it is?

Lenore used the media/public opinion to get what she wanted in regards to her daughter who, by the way, married the man Lenore tried to stop her from marrying. What wasn't told to the public in that case was that Lenore was all for the underage marriage until her first ex-husband threatened her. Only then did she stand up against it. Why shouldn't we get the jump on her to prevent an atrocity with these children.

Your last paragraph really confuses me as I know several of the posters discussing this and they are all among "those who left". It is not 'warrenites' who are commenting on Lenore for the most part. I didn't understand the comment about the "patriarchy" at all as the Roundy's left in Idaho have all been given the boot by warren. Perhaps this misled you?

I appreciate your comments about reporting abuse although I completely disagree with the case of the child on the lap. My own opinion is that the government has no right to tell me how to raise my children. If children are in mortal danger riding on a lap how did so many of us reach adulthood? With their propaganda the government is trying to get us to believe that they are the solution to every danger or problem we have. So we give up our freedoms for a feeling of security. Just my humble opinion that I could not pass on. I do not mean to change the subject, but I am sick of these type of laws.

Faithful Woman said...

----Friends and family may help, but the ultimate responsibility rests on the shoulders of society and our government.----

I don't think so.

The government? More government?
What are we to say that we need a big baby sitter all the time? That we can act responsibly if we want to on occasion but the ultimate baby sitter will take care of it all?

Only when people refuse to control themselves are laws made to control the people.

NO, Big Brother Baby Sitter does not know best in all situations.

Anonymous said...

And when a woman said she put her children in the car to end there life and the children can tell the same story, well it would be insane give the children back. And you are right, when a person reports abuse or gets in volved they have to ask if they want to be the one every one is blaming and accusing. Poor Lenore. She never wanted any of her children. And Milton does drugs. And as to truth, every one who knows them, know this is true and if you uphold it you are as quilty of abuse as she is. If you have eviedence and not just gossip and an ego for sensatonalisim. And Frankly every one does not choose to put there life in the spot light. Abuse is abuse. There has to be evedence. And it is all the happy gossiping anti's that keep people in power to abuse. I say this because when you tell people out right you hate them because of where they are from and there culture, you have closed the door for those being abuse to talk. do you suppose any one likes to have the media as there only law. What insanity. Media does not care. They are set on making a buck and selling a paper. And every one of you f-----film people know more of the truth than you told. There is more to Lenore's story. Yes and the men will pay the debt. But she is a very uncontroled alcholic and was abused as a child. She also was betrayed to cover up others sin. But that does not mean she would be able to care for her children. I say leave them alone, with the Roundy's.

Anonymous said...

FTTC

now you're talking and that's what I meant. If you wanta to fling mud... just back it up. My instincts automatically put me in defense mode when people take pot shots at some mom and hers kids, but if mom's been out BS'ing the media to make a case, well then she's got it coming.

Allow me to apologize on one point. I didn't intend on bringing my comments down to a personal level. Apparently Lenore is well know to you and others, but not me. I'm kicking around on turf that I quite frankly shouldn't be on... sorry 'bout that

On the flip side, you aught start getting used to people like me, because there's about 100 million other me's just like me out there and the more and more of these me's learn about your little group, the more you're going to have to deal with them (especially since your buddy warren is doing such a hell of a great job spreading the word). Mud flinging just ain't going to help your cause, only make things worse.

And how are you going to explain your comment "...her daughter who, by the way, married the man Lenore tried to stop her from marrying..."? like that somehow made it any better? ... don't know about that one. I'm thinking. Why in heaven's name would a bright young 16 year old girl feel any satisfaction in marrying some 39 year old married guy with 10+ kids? And what about the motivation of this 39 year old married guy with 10+ kids who thinks is somehow OK to "hook up" with some 16 year old kid? because some snake oil salesman back in the 1850's said was the "Christian" thing to do? ... nope sorry, it just ain't going to fly

but good luck none the less

Anonymous said...

faithful woman

sorry, but you're dead wrong on this point. Kids are citizens too, just as any adult. They have rights and we as a nation have the responsibility to guarantee those rights. In America it's family first but... like it or not if the family fails to provide and protect their children or even infringes on their children's rights, the government can and MUST intervene.

Our children's futures are everyone's business and the government is there to take care of our business.

... but you don't have to worry, you're a good mom :)

keep sweet eldorado
stg

fttc said...

My point in the comment in question was to show that Lenore's going to the media did not prevent what she claimed she was preventing. It is to me another proof that it is the attention she craves and not the protection of her children. Her daughter made the choice to marry the man she did. He lost his family over it all. I cannot vouch for sanity of anyone involved in that one. I was not defending the girl in her decision.

I think you have good intentions. I have appreciated many of your postings. You see from a perspective that I am unable to. I think you are right that there are more like you. I truly believe most people are nice and decent. Keep posting and don't let my fiesty? replies get you down. :-)

Faithful Woman said...

I believe that there are many good people in this "wicked" world. I have met a few of them.

onthestreet said...

Or as one prophet put it: He is a "good" man (woman), what what are they good for. And then, as Jesus your Lord Himself puts it: "There is NONE GOOD but the Father.

Do you want to challenge that, challenge Jesus Christ?

Anonymous said...

No, but Warren does.

fttc said...

Anon 12:47

Excellent point!

Anonymous said...

But streetie, on other threads you have CURSED Jesus Christ. How can you ride the fence so? It's in the archives, look it up.

Anonymous said...

STG,
I was the one who posted earlier that you quoted, just to clarify. I wanted to say that I am one of the ones who left the creek, I still have family and freinds in the community and miss them deeply. I would venture to say that one of the many reasons why the abuse that happened to the kids was not reported to authorities was that those of us who knew about it were the same age and well in very similar situations ourselves.
I was doing some counseling in a group home for young girls who have been removed from thier homes for various reasons and they all wanted to know why they were being punished for the short commings of thier parents. It struck very hard because there were many times when I wanted to know the same thing. Why was I being held accountable for the decisions and choices that I had no control over? See I grew up with children that you are arguing about, and those that "belonged" to Milton before he married Lenore. I can vividly remember Milton viciously kicking myself and his son down the stairs because we had ventured up the stairs and disturbed his drinking. (We were sitting on the landing talking.)I can remember days when we took food over to the home, because they did not have any,I can remember sneeking in and hiding in the bedrooms so that I could hang out with my friends, but Mother couldn't know because she... (actually I never knew what she would do but the implicit terror in the warnings of her kids made it clear that it would not be plesent. I remember countless days spent hiding in the sage brush because going home was just to hard. Times, dates, locations, impressions, I dare say that many of us have them. Why didn't I go to the authorities? I was young, and afraid of the authorities, and by they time I had grown up a little it was too late, these charges have specific limitations. And yes by the time I was in a position to report them, she was in the media and every time anyone said anything about her, well we were just trying to discredit her or add to the persecutions that she was dealing with. It did not make what happened any less real just made people a lot more reluctant to talk specifics. I was so dismayed when I found out that Milton had remarried, I can honestly say that with every fiber of my ten year old heart I wanted him to live life alone and endure all the misery that he had put his children through. And then I found out that he had a new family. After a time I was not as upset about this because thier son became my new best friend. But when the same stuff started to happen in the family that had happened before, made worse because the mother participated in it too. Well I can tell you that many tears were shed, many notes and letters exchanged talking of running aways from a bad situation. This is not slander because it happened.

By the way I was struck at how intense your responce was in regards to how you believe that society is ultimatly responsible for the welfare of children. While I agree with you I have to tell you that the system that we currently have in place to protect the innocent does not do a very good job and facts show that in many ways it can lead to greater harm. Just a thought.

Anonymous said...

I am reatly touched. I knew you as a child. I am sorry that I could not have done more for you. I did not realize how you were living, until the day she died. I went to see her then. There were people who cared. There were people who wanted to help. She never talked about what he did. I am crying as I write this. I have to agree with you. reporting abuse feels like one of the worst things a person can do. They are put on trial and blamed for not being more responsible for there parents, when it was the child who would have done any thing. Milton was an Alcholic. I hope you can find peace and joy in your life. Look at it from the veiw in which it was. You was a child. Milton was an adult. There was some people who did try to help. I wish I could have done more. I hope you find peace. I say again; do not beat your self up. You were a child. Milton was an adult. He was an alcholic. It was his behavior that was negative. And I think the worse thing a person could do is report abuse to the athority's. At least you then have some privacy and dignity, with out being called names because you did not like to be abused. I would not think you should have stayed. I am just glad the other children have a chance at something else before they are grown and bitter. All children deserve a decient life, away from drugs, alchol and beatings. And make no mistake, the accusations and the talk hurts worse than the beatings sometimes. The body heals; the name calling you have to root out of your own mind. I wish you all the joy in the world. I am glad she is in heaven. She wanted to go. I am sure she is praying for you. I know she is me. Good by.

Anonymous said...

Just a thought; She wanted her children taken care of. She tried to make sure they would be before she went. Dick tried to get them. She had to lay on her food stamps to see that they had food, but her cupboards were bare. She did try all she could to take care of her children before she went though. I am glad she went. I hope you all find peace. I hope you all find joy. The athority's are only after money. They do not care about any of us. They only make things worse.

Anonymous said...

I know that she did, it was the one thing that we knew that she lived for. I loved her so much and miss her. She taught me some of my greatest lessons. I miss her, but I was not sad to see her go when she went. She was going to a much better place.

ATAR_i said...

Poster, I read your story, and the comments of those who knew you. It sounds like as a child, you tried to help, in the only way you could.

I would agree that the results of involving the 'authorities' are not always optimal. Sometimes it's better than nothing, sometimes it makes things better, sometimes worse.

It's rather like surgery. You do it - because there's a problem. But sometimes when you operate - you create another problem - or even a more disastrous problem. But you can't know that when you begin. Your goal is to heal, to help - but all bodies react differently - and have their own inherent issues.

Some might come out better than expected, and the lump removed was cancerous and would have taken their life within years. Sometimes you remove a lump which turns out to be benign, and a young mother dies of a blood clot as a result of an invasive surgical procedure.

But you can't know when you do it. You do the best with what you can. Your goal is to heal and to help and sometimes you cannot always anticipate the outcome. It could be marvelous, could be disastrous, it might just be what it's expected to be - small surgery, corrects the problem - life goes back to normal.

So, how do you decide when it's time for outside help - I guess you just do the best you can. Hindsight is such a killer. You have the benefit of seeing the outcome of your decision. But I wouldn't apply hindsight across the board - meaning - because it was bad or good for one individual - doesn't mean your situation will have a similar outcome.

Like that lady on tv with that big invasive breast cancer who took herbs and wants all people to take herbs. Firstly - I don't have access to her medical files and no one really know what she took - she is after all - getting money on TV touting her book with the herbs.

Secondly, lets say she did take the herbs and the cancer retreated - should Susie take that same chance. I know she has, and she lost - the herbs didn't work.

All that to say, making a stand that 'authorities should NEVER be called' because they 'always make things worse' is a bit like the lady on TV who wants you to take herbs for your Stage IV infiltrating ductal carcinoma.

I guess you can see my leaning towards involvement as opposed to not. It makes a statement to the adult (you can't do that) and to the child (it's not ok when someone does that to you). Of course the goal is always to reunite first, but that's not always possible.

Having said that, I could never point my finger at a child and say - your life would have been so much better if you tattled on your parents - how could I know that for sure?

It's not an easy question - and since it's not my neck - I'll let those that are living it make that decision - and try to support them in whatever decision they make (not that I wouldn't kindly encourage them to see things my way : )).

Anonymous said...

You sound like a nice sort of person Atari; I am glad that you would help someone. I think a person should always do what they are impressed to do. If it is surgery you feel you need, then that is the way to go. If it is herbs you feel you need that is the way to go. You do not know this woman we talk of. She was my sister. She said she wanted to go. She wanted to make sure her children were ok. She said, she wished they would not fight over her and her method of treatment. We sang to her that day. She wanted me to hug her. I would not. I was so shocked at how she lived. I stayed and cleaned for her. Dick was angry and sent us home, because he said we loved her too, much. I know that some times nothing will help. She is gone. My daughter also; He did the same thing with my daughter the day she died. I can not comprehend such evil, as he had, but she is in heaven. They are. My daughter and her. She was a very sweet woman. I will be glad to see her again. My brother, her, my daughter's. And now he is gone. I am glad. He is gone. I hope I never see him again. My father is dieing. i am glad of this. I have a lot of time left ahead of me. And they are gone. The athority's are stupid and know nothing. I would never call a cop again. They are stupid, and judge by evil men's talk. But God is merciful. He took this Dick away. Now maybe my family can love each other again. I am glad she went and did not have to suffer at these men's hand's longer.

ATAR_i said...

Yep, it's tough and I am only comforted by the scripture that states that 'all things work out for good to them that love God, and are called according to his spirit'.

I think what that means - is that as humans, we'll make bad decisions, we'll make mistakes - but, if we love God, he can bring hope to any circumstance - even the ones we can't see ourselves digging out of.

So, no matter what, wether we take herbs or seek aggressive treatment, wether we call the police, or run in the opposite direction from help - HE can bring hope, even if we react the wrong way.

thehonesttruth said...

Everyone can talk... drama is addicitng so naturally you all want an input in everything. Well how many of you have actually lived with Milton and Lenore, how many of you really truly know first hand what it is like to be a child under their control? How many of you really truly know the truth and are expressing the full truth about the Roundy farm?? only a few. Not everything is bad; but it's not all rosy posy... I am Lenore's daughter.. it hurts to see all these hateful things posted, it hurts to have my younger siblings living on the Roundy farm where their education is minumum, i think the exact is 4 months rather than the regular 9... I hurts to see that my younger siblings do not get any social contact.. but at the same time I am very grateful that the Roundy's have taken them all in because they have not been separated. It hurts that I am not allowed to speak with my brothers and sisters and express that I love them... I guess life isn't fair, huh? Well, I guess what I am trying to say is how can any of you say anything that have not physically been there?? few of you understand the pain. My sister that married the 39 yr old man.. well he didn't lose his family because of that, he left because he did not agree with Warren. How about we all get our facts straight.

as to the original discussion: I think state care for the children (and I hate to refer to my family in those terms, it's weird) would be the best that could happen to them. Get them social interaction, financial support, and opportunity for a future. On the farm I feel they have no future, and no choice.

as for the crazy molestation and sexual abuse accusations... well my mom likes to make those-- don't take them seriously. Mr. Roundy is old. He is stuck in his ways.. but he is not a mollestor.

Another thing I have to point out that the cause of all this crazy stuff is religion. People get offended because other's do not believe or follow their same religious views. I understand where the Roundy's are coming from because I do not fully support their relgion, however I do believe they should stop being so closed minded. The ARE good people, you just have to understand that religion has gotten in the way quite a bit. And who can blame them? nobody likes it when they feel like somebody has walked all over their religious beliefs -- this concept applies to everyone.

thehonesttruth said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
onthestreet said...

Anonymous said...
But streetie, on other threads you have CURSED Jesus Christ. How can you ride the fence so? It's in the archives, look it up.
12/02/2005 5:01 PM

"Other threads", other worlds, in another life... You have to be more specific than that. Name the thread, and the date. Then everybody can see your LIE. Go ahead. We are waiting.

ATAR_i said...

Dear Lenores Daughter:

You are definately right about one thing - we can't know. Even worse, people living under the same roof sometimes can't even know all that occurs underneath it - it's a scarry thought.

But we do our best, and some people speak - not because they have every bit of information, but sometimes because theres enough trickling out that you know someone needs to take a second look.

I found your posting very well written, thoughtful, probing and everything a post from a sister should be. You want more for them, but understand it's not as bad as some have painted it. I think your siblings are lucky to have you, and hope that if they ever should need you - they can find you.

I hope that one day you can help them access the things that they need. And, don't be afraid to ask us people on the blog for help should you need something to do that (books, clothes, food, etc).

Anonymous said...

Milton and Lenore's first child was born in 2004. They have seven children together. Lenore's family did step in to care for the children briefly while she underwent psychiatric evaluation at DRMC. Shortly after the doctor released her, the children returned to live with her. Milton did not like the idea of Lenore's family caring for their children, but his home was not a good environment either. They took the children to Roundy's.

At first their children were with Milton's mother, which also proved to be abusive and unhealthy. Josephine stepped in and has taken good care of them every since. Josephine is Lenore's aunt, and Bill is Milton's stepfather.

I have to disagree that state custody would be the best thing for these children. Over the years I have read articles about the statistics on children placed in state custody such as how many homes on average a child lived in before turning eighteen and the percentage of children placed in state custody that are put on psychoactive drugs. Although I can't recall the exact stats, the information clearly showed that state care was not always the best thing for a child. I say leave the kids where they are, together, loved. Anyone that wants to help out could give Bill a call and ask him where to send support in the form of money, educational materials, food, clothes, etc... My only reservation about Bill is his aversion to "the outside world". I just hope that his religious and philosophical beliefs would not stop him from seeking appropriate medical and dental care for the kids when it is needed. I am concerned that if people did send resources, he would not use them for the kids or not use them at all. My experience with people that felt like everyone outside their group was evil is that they superstitiously deny themselves support from people on the outside. I see some of these attitudes/qualities in Bill.

Lenore and Milton were ordered to get a divorce by the court they frequented over domestic disputes. Naturally, in their divorce the issue of their children will be addressed. It will be interesting to see how the court deals with this one. Lenore's attorney is asking for immediate return of the children to the state of Arizona because Arizona has paid for the kids since birth, and I'm pretty sure Lenore told the attorney that Milton took the kids to Roundy's without her permission. Which isn't true, but it doesn't have to be for Lenore to say it.

Whoever stated "poor Lenore, she never wanted any of her kids ... etc." sounds like they could use a little help themselves. Anyway, they are completely wrong. Perhaps they carry a massive victim archetype similar to the one they projected onto Lenore. There is one person that will have to answer for Lenore's adult life, and that is herself. And so it is for each of us.

ATAR_i said...

I had a situation where in giving to someone I cared about - I had to be soooo careful. Tags always had to be removed, and it couldn't be too nice or it would be pawned by the person who controlled her.

It was very frustrating for me, who wanted so much for this young girl to have something warm and nice. She just couldn't have it was the bottom line. Anything nice was sold or pawned, and anything new was returned.

I felt extremely helpless. But this young girl is now out of the control of the individual who terrorized her, and I am able to give generously now. Her Christmas will be one of the best in quite a long time.

So, I know the frustration, and the powerlessness.

Anonymous said...

I am one of Bill Roundy's children. I am now out of his home and have moved on with my life. I am close enough to my family to know what has gone on with these children. There are facts not presented or misrepresented that I think will put a different perspective on the whole deal.

First of all my father had no say in whether these children were brought to the farm in Idaho. Milton and his mother arranged it all without any consultation with him. Milton's mother had the children for a day or so before he knew what was going on. She tried to keep them for several weeks before she realized she bit off more than she could chew. So she dumped the problem on my father. (Yes as the poster said it was Josephine who ended up with the biggest part of the job. But I know from her how much he has contributed. He has helped with the cooking and cleaning and other housechores a lot. And he is over eighty years old.)

The youngest child was about nine months old. The oldest was close to thirteen. I saw the baby about the time Bill (Josephine) took over the care of them. She would not smile nor would she cry. It was like she had climbed into a shell. She was the worst case of all the children but the rest were much the same. The oldest child was the only one who seemed to give a normal response to interaction, be it just conversation or showing some love and concern. It took several months before the childrens' trust in anyone could be noticed. It is hard to believe these are the same children today that arrived over a year ago. They now have the more normal give and take of children. They do not hang their heads when spoken to. They will look you in the eye, and their eyes have a healthy twinkle to them.

My father is a very strict man. He is also a very loving man. I realize this latter statement may not carry much water coming from one of his children. Of course I am going to defend him when he is publicly spoken of but it is not that we have not had our differences. Now that I am grown I can see how he was right most of the time. I have never seen him take advantage of anyone. I do mean anyone. The above poster who infers that he would take anything for the children and not use it for the children either doesn't know him as they infer they do, or they are purposely trying to slander him. It may be true that he would refuse to accept the aid, but he would never misuse it. He has certain religious beliefs, peculiar to some, that he will not compromise, but he steps on no one's toes about them. If you sent an Orthodox Jew a present of pork would you expect him to keep it, let alone eat it?

If these children remain under his roof they will be expected to abide by his rules. I made it through. If the state chooses to leave the children where they are at they will be respectable and well educated children when they reach adulthood. I have many adult siblings as proof of that.

ATAR_i said...

You did a very nice job of honoring your father 8:04 poster.

onthestreet said...

As do all faithful FLDS children.

Anonymous said...

When they figure out which husband of thier mother it is?

Anonymous said...

To Bill Roundy's child:
Please ask your father for a list of acceptable support and the address to send the items/money to. I love Lenore's children and have a great deal of experience with them. I would testify on behalf of Bill and Josephine keeping the children for the children's sake. My reservations about Bill are questions and fears due to some of my own experiences with people from a similar background as Bill. It was not my intention to make groundless accusations. I can not deny that your parents have acted with the love of Christ in caring for Milton and Lenore's children. Others would have gladly taken their children and raised them as their own. Several people tried. The problem has always been that neither Milton nor Lenore would release custody voluntarily--(the closest they ever came was taking them to Roundy's farm). This would leave the foster care giver in limbo, not knowing if the child would still be with them from one day to the next. Once this case goes through court, it will be a relief for the children and everyone involved to know that they won't be jerked around ever again.
As a side note, your parents might want to speak with a social worker in Idaho about the laws surrounding family members who care for a child for an extended period of time. I have a friend who lives in Idaho who got in a conversation with a social worker at a school football game. The social worker told my friend that after so many months or years (they had the exact time period) of uninterrupted caring for the relatives child, the care giver could apply for custody and have it granted even without the parents' consent.

ATAR_i said...

I don't believe FLDS faithful honor their parents any more or any less than any other human on the planet.