Tuesday, November 22, 2005

Happy Thanksgiving!

And since the FLDS don't believe in holidays, now is the time to send a letter, make a telephone call, send a turkey or a ham and let them know you care. You know they have gotten rid of all your pictures and "memories". So make some new memories. After all bad guys don't do nice things.


Anonymous said...

Rumor I found this letter written by Marvin Wyler to the folks at the Creek.

Thought it would be good to look at it again.

Letter To Colorado City

Editor's note: This letter has been edited for spelling only.

A plea to "think" use your God given "agency"

It's perfect mindlessness to render obedience where there is no love. Love has waxed cold when a "mad-dam" "guillotine" separates fathers, mothers and children, from each other; against their natural affection, thus severing their hearts.

Zombie like submission is the norm out here or in other words "going down the road together." But which road? If we would use our minds we would realize there are many roads to take and the one we want is called "God is Love." Love is charity; charity is forgiveness and forgiveness is hope.

Please wake up dear people of the twin cities; the road you're on may have your exit next!

Hope can spark a will to action, a desire "to live" instead of despair. Togetherness for yourselves and families under God, and not a manmade God. The worship of a man is the highest form of idolatry.

Can you imagine a man said over our pulpit that the devil has told you women a lie in the garden of Eden; when he told Eve she could think! That was, maybe, 25 years ago; hardly an amen could be heard at the end of his sermon. But, today, only a few will dare to think for themselves. Why? Because now it's an "infallible" leader saying the same idea. No!? Untrue, you say?! What about "perfect obedience produces perfect faith" or vice versa; that statement alone without any qualifying words disregards the possibility that perfect faith in a man might be flawed; or obedience to evil was never mentioned in the same phrase.

How about "God is Priesthood." "Priesthood is God with us," "I am Priesthood." Or none of you have the right to partake of the sacrament of Jesus Christ unless you believe in me completely. What think you about a person that would order thousands of people out of their chairs and command them to kneel and bow down in a show of humility before him while he offers a 15 minute prayer. God has said over and over again not to put your trust in the arm of flesh. Please think people!

Can you imagine the shock I felt when my 16-year-old daughter played Warren Jeff's tape for private school children and I heard as I walked by "your parents are the enemy" if they don't believe everything that my father Rulon Jeffs says. (Incidentally, everyone knows that Warren speaks for the aged man).

Those beliefs would have to include the pamphlet that Uncle Rulon and Warren prepared and passed out in priesthood meeting to teach to our families. The pamphlet includes teaching of blood atonement; no sexual relation with your wife except to have a baby, otherwise it's adultery; and a woman can choose someone higher in Priesthood if she wants, no divorce necessary.

Doesn't this sound like Priestcraft? You ladies need to "think." Is all this right? Is the marriage bed defiled? Stick to your covenants.

Warren Jeffs rules in power only because you women won't show your husbands that you love them and will stand by your man in these darkest of hours. Have the nerves of steel that Uncle Roy told the men to go home and teach to their women cause they were going to need it in the coming times. Just say "no" to this inhumanity.

Marvin Wyler
Colorado City

Anonymous said...

Anon 12:45

Rumor has attempted to bring some interesting discussion to a blog that has not had much to say for a while. I personally appreciate her efforts. Her posts are not obnoxious as Street's are notoriuos for.

And another thing. You want to remain anonymous apparently as you have not posted your name. Why not respect her in her nom de plume? Who knows if you are right in your assumption but if you are it is at least bad manners that you exhibit.

fttc said...

Hope one and all had a happy Thanksgiving. I remember the time when my father's family used to all gather for this holiday. They were happy times we all had together. They are sweet memories. Now many of them do not even celebrate. Seems the spirit of gratitude that it is supposed to represent has diminished. I have countless blessings that I am grateful for. Maybe when they are free again they will celebrate it again?

Thanks for your efforts Rumor. Don't let a jerk like the first poster spoil the cheer of the day.

Anonymous said...

Well, what will the Warrenites celebrate?

Anonymous said...

when he leaves they will celebrate

alj said...

Happy thanksgiving to all of our family and friends. We love you.

Faithful Woman said...

There seems to be a very insecure person watching this blog and gets some kind of a thrill from putting down those who have the guts to do what he/she doesn't -- DREAM.

Come on, don't be afraid that rumor or I will treat you the same way you have treated us. We know that everyone needs friends. Don't just stand in the corner wishing you were a part of the party, join the celebration!

Just face it, people are social creatures and crave company and appreciation. That is something that the warrenites are not getting, not from their infallable leader nor from associating among themselves. Right now they have been so cut off from all they have known all of their lives, from tremendous community spirit, to near total isolation, that they are in desperate need of true love.

Charity, the pure Love of Christ.

ogre said...

I hope everybody had a great thanksgiving. I wish I could have seen my siblings from the creek or at least heard there voices.
Rumor, Faithful, fttc, mugwump, nintendo, atari, and all the other posters, have a great holiday season and cherish your family around you.


Anonymous said...

November 25, 2005. 19 years. Salt Lake is here and dry as ever. I hope everyone enjoyed Thanksgiving the best that they could. The only destructions so far as those at the hand of warren the holey profit.

Anonymous said...

And in that day they will say that Christ delayeth his coming; mock and persicute the saints.

You say there is not any destructions, yet the media says that there are destructions daily. There was an earth quake across the sea.
And we were taught to be thankful every day.

After the testimonie of the Prophet comes the testimonie of the wind and hail and earth quake.

And after they are in the spirit world, they shall cry to the Lord, "Oh, that we had repentated in the day of our Probation.

Every knee shall bend and every tounge shall confess that he is the Christ.

And can a man stop a river? Can a man stop the ocean? Can a man keep the earth in rotation?

And you mock and also fulfill the words of the Prophets.

Storms are hitting the United States.

Floods and aids; Abortion;
Every word of the Prophet Joseph is being fulfilled.

And you mock.

Anonymous said...

And you over exagerate

Anonymous said...

There is only one destruction that Uncle Roy was worried about. Nature does what nature does, but only warren can destroy the covenant of marriage, the morals of women, and the lives of the young men. This is what Uncle Roy saw of the future that concerned him the most, the son of Rulon Jeffs destroying the Work of God and the morals of women, for how many acts does it take to become poluted and filthy, just one. Hundreds of women have adulterated themselves at the hand of warren, truly warren the holey profit mocks all that is true before Christ.

Anonymous said...

Isn't going overboard on every dust-devil and thinking it is the beginning of Armageddon a form of sign-seeking. Didn't the New Testament warn against such people? Look at Warren's sign seeking:
(1) Elderly Father mumbles a reverlation in his sleep about living 320 years into the millenius, and he takes that as revelation.
(2) Tornado hits SLC, and we are read scriptures about how the destructions will hit at the Lord's house.
(3) Uncle Rulon or Uncle Fred started feeling a little better, so they were obviously getting renewed in this life.
(4) Lord inspired me that ... is immoral and he confessed when grilled to the core.
(5) Lifting up is so close, we don't have time for anything.

I'm sure others can point out a lot of sign-seeking, but as for me, I have seen enough sign seeking to be convinced of his immorality and that he is hiding sin with piety.

Anonymous said...

And a mans life is about one hundred years. In that time you have an opertunity to become good or evil. All men die. You only take with you what you are. YOur riches, your land, and your stuff, remain upon the land to molder and gather dust. And what have you to account; Hatred? love? cheating? lies? honosty? charity? what then are your gifts? you will be what you are. Be careful that you want to be living with your self. It is you, you take. And accusations never amount to much.

Anonymous said...

Additional sign seeking clues

--A couple of wives tales give rather obscure details of how they think he might have been sort-of ordained to they are not sure what that gave him the right to maybe be the prophet.
--Father is just in the other room and presiding. After a short visit, he will come back and lead us to Jackson County.
--Those with the Spirit of God can work 20 hour days without fatigue. If you fatigue, it's because you ain't holy enough.
--The hypnotic power of suggestion of his sign seeking has even got children reporting visions of seeing Uncle Rulon or other heavenly messengers, furthering the peoples faith that these people are reporting to Warren because of the testimony of children.

Anonymous said...

Well, what-ever; not too long ago some people were saying they saw a certian person walking to hurricane and all kinds of things. And when you think about it, all the drug users say they see things too. Its a great life. And not too long ago there was all this talk of certian things THIS PERSON claimed to be seeing, by every gossiper in the nation; but the key witness in the closed case, was just arrested for exactly what this supposed person said they were doing to her child. Too bad for this other mothers child, but,Maybe life is not so bad after all. two down four to go. {And this is only for the ones involved.} TRUTH ALWAYS STANDS FOREVER. lIES HAVE A WAY OF FALLING WITH THERE OWN WEIGHT. I THINK I MAY ENJOY THESE HOLIDAYS AFTER ALL. And Texas in the end, I have to thank you for your hospitality.

Anonymous said...

Thanks, Rumor, for posting Marvin Wyler's letter that I believe was first printed in the Spectrum Newpaper in early 2004.

Marvin's statement, "The road you're on may have your exit next!" In hind sight, it has been a rather accurate prediction of the future of this people under Warren Jeff's administration.

I especially identified with and agreed with Marvin's statement, "The worship of a man is the highest form if idolatry."

I beleive all of us need to recognize that "God is love," and grant tolerance to all denominations and belief systems, provided it does not infringe upon the rights of others.


Anonymous said...

Why do you not go and celibrate your great holiday. I am sure you have more to do in life than slander people, and fight over religion. The constitution gives a person the right to worship a frog if they choose. And I can worship a man if I choose too. And it is none of your business.

Anonymous said...

And frankly any thing that stops a person from worshiping God is Idolitry. Trinkets, money, houses, governments, any thing that gets between the law of Christ is Idolitry. So get off your high horses and Worship your fat lips if you want, but leave us alone. We can worship man and men and God and frogs if we choose. You say we have the right to freedom as long as it does not infringe on any one, then you slander people for there religion. Get a life. Get a life. There is more to life than insulting people for there believes, and I can worship a man all I like. I do not see how it is infringing on your rights and if I follow your government laws, i can do any thing I want as long as I pay the government for it. Well, with in reason. So jump in the lake if it is not frozen over with the latest blizzard that hit the country.

Anonymous said...

And further more, Marvin wyler could have stayed in the church here and reaped the rewards if he would have chosen too, so stuff it in a shirt and tell it to the moon.

Anonymous said...

If Warren were minding his own business and not infringing on others, this blog wouldn't exist!

Of course, you can worship how you want, but TAKE CARE OF YOUR CHILDREN, DAMNIT.

Faithful Woman said...

No one is reaping the rewards promised for staying in the church if you haven't noticed.

And No, Marvin could not say amen to a prayer for someone's death. And that was just the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back, there was much more that he could not agre with nor condone in church.

He didn't protest loudly like some of us have, but in his own quiet way, he said "Enough".

Faithful Woman said...

anon r, 11:53 and 55

No one said you couldn't worship warren if you want to, just don't get it confused with the gospel you thought you knew.

Anonymous said...

Joe S. Jessop has told numerous times of his experiences in W.W. II. He tells over the pulput that the reason for the destruction of Japan was that they worshipped a man--Buddha. In CC, the people worship a man, Warren. It also looks like destruction is going on.

mugwump said...


Thank you for your kind Thanksgiving greeting. May the Lord bless you richly in the year to come.

mugwump said...

11/27 8:25

Neither I nor any child of the King doubt for a minute that any of His children shall fail to recognize the King of Kings and Lord of Lords at His appearing. It will occur in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.

Why would god stand around on earth and tell folks to watch out, I'm coming. If he's here, he's here. I'm betting he's a sham, a fraud, an anti-christ, an impostor and above all, a liar. Since God cannot tell a lie, my statement is proven true.

I haven't seen any evidence that Warren Jeffs has done anything except "toot his own horn" and that surely is not, the TRUMPET OF THE LORD, it is the tin horn of pride and self promotion and will utterly fail and destroy those who blindly follow.

Anonymous said...

I have heard the destructions are coming all of my life.

I don't believe that for a moment.

This is the greatest day and age to be alive and to live in. There are more amazing discoveries and technological advances than ever, in the history of the world!

I don't believe there are more wicked people than ever before, that is hogwash!

I think that more people believe in Jesus Christ and less in organized religion than ever before.
I think that people in general are kind and good and have a heart and are willing to help those that are down and out.

Those that say this is a wicked world, speak of the wickedness in their own heart.

mugwump said...

11/30 11:29

Dream on Pollyanna

Tell that to the victims of 9/11

Shout that from the housetops in Baghdad.

Let this message be heard in every square in North Korea and in China.

Cry it aloud in drug infested slums of New York, Washington D.C., Baltimore, Philidelphia, London, Paris, Amsterdam, San Fracisco, Los Angeles, Dallas, San Antonio, New Orleans, Melbourn, Jakarta, Hong Kong, Cairo, Vienna,
Buenos Aires, Sauo Paula, Mexico City, Tokyo, Sydney, Calcutta, Moscow, Berlin, Bern.

Dear friend, it's obvious that you never read a newspaper or listen to a news broadcast. Crime, murder, rape, theft, larceny, incest, armed robbery and crimes neither you nor I can immagine are going on this very minute. Not only are they going on, they are growing in number. There are constant wars, and undertones of wars, there is constant conflict among peoples within each country, even this very country.

To listen to the news you would believe that the Democrats are ready, and would at the first opportunity, slit the throat of the President, when the center of power is reversed criticism is reversed. It's called balance of power. It's democracy at it's best and at it's worst. The arguing, name calling, political posturing etc. is the name of the game. To an outsider it looks like chaos. To an American, it's "Democracy in Action." Imperfect, but so much better than any other know attempt at government.

Your best option at survival is to become informed----and quickly. The fact that you would make such a simple statement and appear on this blog indicate that you are indeed suceptible to the wiles of the solitious and deceitful Warren Jeffs. If that is indeed the case, and you have the freedom to look at this blog, perhaps you have hope. If you aren't under Jeffs influence, get in the real world now. You needen't be influenced by the temptations of the world but, you would at least know those things to guard against.

Anonymous said...

I am not stupid! I understand that crap. Don't think for a minute that all is well in Zion. All I am saying is that for all my life I have lived in fear, in a religion that taught fear in order to make the people more righteous, now I am free. And I have found that looking at the bright side keeps depression at bay. It opens up opportunities that I could never see before.

I can plainly tell you have never had a deadline of the world coming to a end or a "lifting up". This message is for those that have.

mugwump said...

My friend,

The deadline of the world coming to an end is not in my hands. I have no control over it, thank God. I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it because there is nothing I personally can do to either hurry it up or slow it down. It is in the Lord's hands, not mine. I trust Him to take care of his creation, inclding me.

My challenge is to share the Love of Jesus Christ with as many as will hear and accept His saving Grace in forgivness of their sin, one person at a time. When I have shared that Love, I have done what has been commanded of me to do. Then, when I have accomplished that task, I can use the term used in tennis, the "ball is in your court" what you do with it is up to you.

John 3:16
Ephesians 2:8-9
Romans 8:31-39

onthestreet said...

That's good, Mugs. Share away. Nothing wrong with the Word, is there. Let's just be sure that in doing so, we're not assuming that God has anointed us as his true servant. Is is a book that commands us, or the voice of God from heaven to your very ears, and the anointing of his very hands upon your head?

All prophets (the true ones) are anointed by God Himself.

onthestreet said...

It opens up opportunities that I COULD NEVER SEE before. I can plainly tell you have never had a deadline of the world coming to a end or a "lifting up". This message is for those that have.
12/01/2005 10:37 AM

STREET'S REPLY: That's right. You just couldn't see it. That's a good and proper confession.

onthestreet said...

Anonymous said...
NONNY SAID: If Warren were minding his own business and not infringing on others, this blog wouldn't exist! Of course, you can worship how you want, but TAKE CARE OF YOUR CHILDREN, DAMNIT.
11/29/2005 12:46 AM

STREET'S REPLY: If Warren WASN'T minding his own business, then this blog wouldn't exist. It only exists because he is minding his own, the business that is given him from above.

By the way, "Damning It" doesn't take care of them at all. Rather, it damns them.

onthestreet said...

Those that say this is a wicked world, speak of the wickedness in their own heart. 11/30/2005 11:29 PM


Book of Jeremiah, Chapter 44, (KJV)
44:3: Because of their WICKEDNESS which they have committed to provoke me to anger, 44:9: Have ye forgotten the WICKEDNESS of your fathers, ...

Deuteronomy 9:5: Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but FOR THE WICKEDNESS OF THESE NATIONS, the LORD ...

Lev 20:14, And if a man take
a wife and her mother, it [is] WICKEDNESS: they shall be burnt with fire, ...

Daily Bible KJV October 21 Scroll
Because of THEIR WICKEDNESS which they have committed to provoke me to anger, Have ye forgotten the wickedness of your fathers, and the wickedness of ...

Matthew 22:18 BUT JESUS PERCEIVED THEIR WICKEDNESS, and said: "Why are you hypocrites ... And Jesus
having known their wickedness, said, 'Why me do ye tempt, hypocrites? ...

Acts 3:26 God, having raised up his servant, Jesus, sent him
God, having raised up his servant, Jesus, sent him to you first, to bless you,in turning away everyone of you from YOUR WICKEDNESS." bible.cc/acts/3-26.htm

MATTHEW 24 (you don’t call this wickedness???): These are the words of your Redeemer. Did Jesus Christ LIE, in saying:

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and SHALL DECEIVE MANY.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, AND SHALL KILL YOU: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and SHALL BETRAY ONE ANOTHER, and SHALL HATE ONE ANOTHER.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because INIQUITY SHALL ABOUND, the love of many shall wax cold.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Anonymous said...

Street we really didn't miss you.

Anonymous said...

Street, since you enjoy hearing yourself talk (or type) so much, why don't you start a new blog (they're free and easy to start on Yahoo) and pronounce yourself King, Judge and Seer on it and type away. I promise you that nobody will oppose you, that everyone who reads it will adore your opinion and that you will be pronounced Wise and Good by your entire audience. Of course, you will be the only one reading it, but your opinion is the only one that matters, right?

Anonymous said...

welcome back street. your public is in awe of your unsolicited and unappreciated contributions. Kinda like measles on a three man raft.

mugwump said...

Obsession with End Times.

Why? One Reason.

Personal insecurity.

One Solution.

Personal assurance of salvation in Jesus Christ. Nothing else is of any importance.

Read the Book of Romans. It is written by the Apostle Paul from the city of Corinth in anticipation of his eventually being able to meet with fellow believers in Rome. He explains the natural condition of the sinner, explains who Jesus is, why He is the Savior, who the Jews are, how their own choice has caused a rift between them and God and how God is not one to go back on promises of salvation. This little book tells you how you can have the assurance that God loves you, he sent his only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ to the cross to die for your sin. How on that cross your sin was forgiven, forever. How through the process of adoption God has made those who accept Jesus as Lord to be joint heirs with Jesus, brothers and sisters in God's Kingdom forever. Jesus paid the price for you, as he did for me.
Won't you accept his free gift of salvation right now?

Pray: Dear Lord, I know I'm a sinner, I know I can never be good enough to save myself. You said that you loved me in spite of my sin. Enough that you laid down your life and shed your precious blood as the price of my sin. Lord I am unworthy, but because of your love and the gift you promised me, eternal life, I now accept you dear Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Thank you Lord, for the gift of salvation now lead me to walk in paths of righteousness, in Jesus Holy Name I pray. Amen

Anonymous said...

Folks, as Paul Harvey would say, "This is the rest of the story" from Street’s above post.

Street, I can see that you are beginning to wake up and it is wonderful! I guess you were doing a lot of serious thinking while you were gone from this blog. I was beginning to believe you would never wake up to Warren's wickedness. Now I'm afraid that your pendulum is swinging too far the other way and you could become rather dangerous to Warren's person.

For instance I noticed you have taken an extremely hard line stance against many of Warren's beliefs and revelations concerning plural marriages. For example, you quoted the Bible in Leviticus wherein it clearly proclaims Warren's wickedness. Your quote, Lev. 20:14, "And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: They shall be burned with fire...." The rest of that quote reads, "Both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you."

Surely you wouldn't really have wanted us to burn Uncle Rulon and his wife Mary when he later took Mary's mother to wife as well, would you?

It would take a horrendous fire to burn all the men in town who Warren has had marry wives then later had them marry their mothers as well. I would suggest you find a more Christ-like way of getting the wickedness of Warren Jeffs out of our community but I applaud you for trying.

Incidentally, I noticed you forgot to post additional sins of Warren's that God CLEARLY points out in the same chapter of Leviticus such as: Lev. 20:11, "And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness; both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Warren Jeffs has married more of his "mothers" than any other man in town, though many adherents to “Warrenism” have obediently walked in this way of sin at the "revealed" word of Warren Jeffs, who claims to have received that word from the same God that caused Leviticus to be written in the first place!

The next verse reads: Lev. 20:12 "And if a man lie with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death; they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them."

Street, I'm sure you are well aware that Warren Jeffs just recently married Boyd Roundy to his daughter-in-law after kicking out her husband (Boyd’s blood son) for watching a movie. My belief is that Boyd may be misguided in his loyalty to Warren Jeffs rather than to God and His Son Jesus Christ, but I don’t believe for one second that he should die for his choice of loyalties. I believe Warren repaid a minor sin with a major sin on his own head. What kind of a prophet is that?

There are numerous examples of Warren's sins unto God in the Bible, but these few examples should help you along on the new path of truth you seem to have chosen.

I would exhort you to exercise the love of Christ, though, and not insist that the Law of Moses be meted out upon the head of Warren Jeffs for his multiplicities of sins unto death. If not for your own salvation, then at least for the simple reason that it is illegal in the U.S. of A. to blood atone someone in that manner even if you personally believe that they deserve it.

Maybe you are all ready doing that because later in this same post, I was pleased to notice that when you quoted the Bible thus, “And many false prophets shall arise, and shall deceive many,” you resisted the urge to quote Deuteronomy wherein God tells us to stone to death prophets such as Warren Jeffs that prophecy falsely.

You appear to be on a much better path now than your earlier writings would indicate. God bless you in your new awakening.

Nameless and still alive

Anonymous said...

O wad the gift the gifte gie us, ta see ersels as ethers see us.

A bad translation of a quotation from "To a louse" by Robert Burns

Anonymous said...

Way to go Nameless and still alive.

Good observations.

Now how about adultry!

Faithful Woman said...

Here Here! to Nameless!

Very good. But beware, a "C" doesn't like to be proven wrong. He will be back, squirming his way into being "right".

onthestreet said...

Anonymous said...
Street, since you enjoy hearing yourself talk (or type) so much, why don't you start a new blog (they're free and easy to start on Yahoo) and pronounce yourself King, Judge and Seer on it and type away. I promise you that nobody will oppose you, that everyone who reads it will adore your opinion and that you will be pronounced Wise and Good by your entire audience. Of course, you will be the only one reading it, but your opinion is the only one that matters, right?
12/02/2005 10:44 AM

STREET'S REPLY: Ahh, you're wrong. I did that very thing, and others read it, and I was opposed for it. So opposed, that they hacked it and posted undeletable moving images across the home page to make it impossible to navigate. So I came back to bless you with my unworthy words, having been opposed and hacked and sabataged on my own blog.

onthestreet said...

ANONYMOUS SAID (Nameless and still alive)12/02/2005 8:00 PM:

For instance I noticed you have taken an extremely hard line stance against many of Warren's beliefs and revelations concerning plural marriages. For example, you quoted the Bible in Leviticus wherein it clearly proclaims Warren's wickedness. Your quote, Lev. 20:14, "And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: They shall be burned with fire...." The rest of that quote reads, "Both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you."

STREET'S Reply: Quite typical of you all, misquote and them base a long dissertation on the lie. Perhaps you wouldn't care to give the good people the date that I said that. Go ahead. We are waiting.

Anonymous said...

speak of the devil and street has arrived

Faithful Woman said...

Sabataged on your own blog?

You must have said something someone didn't like.

onthestreet said...


onthestreet said...

Here, let me help you.
Lev 20:14, And if a man take a wife and her mother, it [is] WICKEDNESS: they shall be burnt with fire, ...www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Lev/Lev020.html

I was responding to Anonymous, who had challenged the idea that there was wickedness in the world: NONNY SAID: Those that say this is a wicked world, speak of the wickedness in their own heart. 11/30/2005 11:29 PM

Now, the Lord’s word certainly says what it says, but the Apostle also took Jesus’s mother at the cross. Was he wicked. What is the scripture of Leviticus 20:14 saying? What does “take” refer to? You have to read it in context, for in the previous verse it says: 13: “If a man lie with mankind… and in the very next verse (15), it says: “If a man lie with a beast”. So, the Lord is referring to immoralities when he says that it is wicked to “take”, yet the apostle took at Jesus’ command. It is not the taking at God’s direction that’s wicked, but what typically accompanies it among the wicked.

onthestreet said...

The above is in response to 12/14/2005 8:07 PM

If you go into the Hebrew language and research the word "Take", has has very narrow and specific applications to very specific scripture, and what a word means in one scripture means something entirely different in another, yet it is the very same word. See, it MUST be in context. You have to look at the context, as well as the doctrine, as well as the persons involved. What Christ said to his disciples plainly, he only gave to the world in parables, and a lower law at that. It is honest and of good report for a righteous man like Warren Jeffs to take women, for he rescues them from immoral men. The women are his witnesses, as is God himself, as well as the men who were handled. The witness to the world their own dark minds and immoral intent.

Perhaps in a later post I can add some detail, and show you specifically how the Hebrew tongue applies that word ("take") to that particular scripture.

Anonymous said...

A "righteous man like Warren Jeffs"! A bonified nut who won't appear in court to face charges any righteous man would be ANXIOUS to have his name cleared of.

A fugitive from justice. A man who didn't appear in court when his nephew accused him of sodomy. The nephew won the civil case by default. A man who is on the run from law enforcement officers in Utah, Arizona, Colorado, Texas, and The Federal Bureau of Investigation, Nationwide for sexual misconduct with a minor child and assisting in sexual misconduct with a child, and flight to avoid prosecution.

HUMPH!! Neither I nor most Americans who know anything about his heavy handed exploitation of the people to whom he would be God, have any use for the guy. He is a carbuncle on the butocks of humanity, a disgrace to those who claim him as prophet, a sexual degenerate, an unrepenant thief of virtue, time, personal values, hope, and has proven himself to be totally untrustworthy.

The time of his arrest is near. He has made his own bed in hell, now he must lie in it.

Anonymous said...

To “On the Street” at 12/14/2005 at 8:07 PM, 8:53 PM and 9:04 PM

Answer to 8:07 PM:

I didn’t misquote you as you claim. I quoted your quote exactly, and then finished your quote out of your own Bible so that readers would get the full impact of what you were trying to say (in your shortened version).

The dissertation you refer to simply came about because I presumed (perhaps erroneously) you had read the verses before and after Lev. 20:14 that you quoted and I wanted to make sure “The Good People” you refer to understood the verse in the context in which it was written. Lev. 20:14 was clarifying wickedness, plain and simple, so a child can understand it.

For “The Good people” that are waiting and wondering if I was lying about the quote as Street infers, I refer you to the above post by Street at 12/14/2005 at 9:16 PM. The quote is the 3rd item down on Street’s 20 point sermon on wickedness. If someone besides Street believes I took Street’s quote out of context, please let me know about it. I thought Street used a very good analogy from Leviticus. To show what wickedness is.

Answer to 8:53 PM

Street, I don’t mean this offensively, only factually, so I don’t want you to feel bad when I say that “you are the last person I need to help me.” If I let you help me, I would be in the same boat as you are in. Let’s do our studying separately and draw our own conclusions. I think we will both be better off for it. I know I will be.

I notice that you again quoted Lev. 20:14 so it must be weighing quite heavy on your mind. The exact quote as you wrote, it says, “And if a man takes a wife and her mother, it [is] WICKEDNESS. They shall be burned with fire.”

I can clearly see you’ve capitalized wickedness again and again have inferred that those who do “WICKEDNESS” (such as a man taking a mother and her daughter to wife) be burnt with fire. I get what you are trying to say but I will not condone you burning all Warren’s people that have violated God’s law in Lev. 20:14. This is the 21st century now and we need to settle our differences on a higher level than like a barbarian slitting someone’s throat so they can atone for their sins while alive, then burning their body in a temple crematory or some version of that scenario. Let’s think this through and come up with a more rational solution to taking care of Warren and those committing sins with him. Because this particular sin appears to be affecting you so greatly, I can’t help but wonder: are you or your father guilty of it?

I do agree with you though, that there is wickedness in this world. I’ve seen some of it as well as you have. Lev. 20:10 clearly identifies a “wicked” sin that we both know about which is currently running rampart throughout our communities. “And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and adulteress shall surely be put to death.” Don’t get me wrong, Street, I’m not suggesting you put Warren and those who have transgressed with him, to death. I’m just telling you what God has to say about adultery. Do you remember back in the sixties when Uncle Roy used to say our town had the lowest rate of divorce per capita in the world? Now we have the highest rate of divorce in the world.

I also agree with you wherein you said “Now the Lord’s word certainly says what it says”. Our pathways diverge, though, when you try and read something different in a Bible passage than what it clearly says. I hope you won’t mind though if I use and refer to your quote over the next few years while debating you. Your statement “Now the Lord’s word certainly says what it says” is without a doubt the most clear, concise and truest sentence I’ve ever seen you type that wasn’t someone else’s quote. Although I may be a little slow on the uptake, but even I understood that sentence the first time through. I didn’t see any circular reasoning in it at all.

I don’t have a problem with John, the Beloved “Taking” Mary, provided she was already unmarried. I hope they had a wonderful family together and would say that if he did take her that he was not her Father, Brother, Father-in-Law, etc and in taking her, he did not break the laws of Leviticus as Warren so blatantly does.

Concerning your not being exactly sure of the context being used when God used the word “Lie” in Lev. 20:13 and 15.

I sure hope you are over the age of 18 years before I tell you about the birds and the bees, or as my Father used to say…. No. I’d better scratch that thought, this town is too small and that kind of reference could spill the beans as to who I am. 

In the context in which God used the word “lie” he was not referring to a fib or an untruth being told. He was referring, in Lev. 20:13, to a man having sexual intercourse with another man. In Lev. 20:15 God was referring to a man having sexual intercourse with a beast, such as a goat, cow, tiger, etc.  You were right, though, in guessing that “Lyeing” in that context, had to do with immoralities.

Answer to 9:04 PM

When God used the word “take” it was in reference to the union of a man and woman joining together and through the course of natural events, children were to be raised up as a result of that union.

You said, “It is honest and of good report for a righteous man like Warren Jeffs to take women, for he rescues them from immoral men.” This is a very interesting concept, especially coming from you whom I believed supported Warren, but I keep getting mixed signals from you. In the context you have been using “taking” it would infer that the fathers of all Warren’s wives were immoral. I don’t claim to know all of the father’s of Warren’s wives, but I do know I don’t’ wish to get into a debate with you about their morality or lack of it. I’m afraid you would win and could easily prove to everyone that they were immoral. I’ll concede to you on this one before I try and defend them and end up with my foot in my mouth.

I notice in your rebuttal that you didn’t mention anything about whether you believe Warren was being sinful in marrying his mothers or anything about father-in-laws marrying daughters-in-law. You just kept real close to the fact that I didn’t capitalize “wickedness” in your quotes. What do you really think about these sins? Can you give me a straight answer?

Nameless and Still Alive