Sunday, August 07, 2005

Up Over the Wall

When I first decided to make my own decisions I felt like I needed some balance in my life. All the home entertainment had been shut down. No more dances, plays, programs, tap dancing, ballet dancing, wild music, tv, you name it - it had been turned off at the pulpit. Not that everyone agreed, they just didn't want to rock the boat. I started by going to a movie, and I felt like all eyes were on me and someone was going to see me and tell. What do you do to keep balance in your life?

136 comments:

rumor-has-it said...

I met a man from Cuba. He talked about walking away from it all and leaving his 13 yr old daughter and wife. He misses his people. He talked of Fidel Castro taxing the people to death. He told of the hunger for the word of Christ. He told of the worst day in America was better than the best day in Cuba. He told of sitting on the beach, starving, knowing there were fish. But was told if he fished, he would be put to death.
There was not enough in this world.

And I related to him. I walked away from my family and friends. And I miss them. I have paid time and money to build up the work in CC. And more than 10% tithing. And every contribution that was asked. I listened to church many times wondering, what had happened to the word of Christ and loving your neighbor. I got to were I would count how many times his name was mentioned. One time I counted that each speaker said it once "And I say this in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen." After they had blasted the apostates, the lawyers, the states, the money system...and asked for tax donations.
FLDS are "put to death" for no reason at all.

I could relate to this man on every issue. He tells of the Freedom in America that is taken for granted and Christ is taken lightly. If you are for Christ, you should never be ashamed.

The worst day I have ever had "out", beats the best day I had "in" and now I live in a world of plenty. There is more than enough to go around.

rumor-has-it said...

to clarify: By put to death, I mean removed from their families.

momofmany said...

I'm sorry your experience wasn't good in your community. Not everyone is like that. I came from that background and didn't experience this. momofmany

rumor-has-it said...

I am not saying it was always like this, just in the three short years before I left. I had a happy childhood and felt like I was part of a great big family. Everyone looked out for us and I was the recieptant of many peoples hospitality and love and in many ways I wish I could go back to the "old days", when I thought that everyone loved everyone else. But then we grow up and find out that we shunned the "apostates" and Outsiders as children and NOW I don't have to look over my shoulder to see who is watching. I can do what I like and I have the freedom of making my own choices, not based on traditional issues of who is who. I can feel good about watching movies and going to concerts and wearing a swim suit and shirt and pants and many things that were banned to me as I was growning up. That I no longer feel is wrong or will damn me to hell.

Anonymous said...

mom of many, you must have left before Warren Jeffs came on the scene.

onthestreet said...

Rebellion is not a good start.

onthestreet said...

This in reply to Rumor's opening to the thread: "What do you do to keep balance in your life"

Anonymous said...

I found it a rather interesting phenomenon, that after I had been out for a while and people didn't perceive me from being "out there" anymore; how differently I got treated. People at the c-stores, library, banks, and other public places would even smile act nice, be friendly and helpful and stuff.

Public opinion and predjudice can be wicked, and it doesn't just happen inside pligville.

fttc said...

Rumor

You forgot to mention in addition to all the blasting the speakers were sure to swear allegiance to the "prophet". He took the place of Christ. Hence they became warrenites instead of Christians.

fttc said...

Anon 5:07

I dare say the people who began to treat you decent were a reflection of your interaction with them. I have always been treated decent by the 'gentiles' while in and out. But I have always treated them decent.

I have been with others from CC and I know it was their attitude that influenced the predjudice. I have found even the most ornery people can be softened by being kind in return for unkindness.

Anonymous said...

Straight shot says,
Dear momofmany -- if you really are from that, "background" and didn't experience that, then WHY DID YOU LEAVE? If things were always that "good, warm and fuzzy" then why one earth would anyone leave?

So wonderful experienced life there that way but if you are a "momofmany" then you must get yourself back into the loving arms of such a loving community so as not to deprive them of any such safety and great experience. Nothing on the outside can top that ever!!!
Praying always.

onthestreet said...

Did she say she left?

Anonymous said...

Straight Shot replies to onthestreet, She didn't say she is still there - proudly proclaiming her status with the "saints". She said, "I came from there" which if the past tense.

So one wonders why she is not still in such a heavenly place, so safe for her many children.

onthestreet said...

Or why so many children live at such a beautiful gathering place, and in peace. No abortion, no perverted choice, just the giving of life and that abundantly.

Yes, some fall away. . . many fall away. "Few there be that find it."

onthestreet said...

They fall away from such a heavenly place, not being heavenly.

Cheechako said...

People simply enjoy the adhesion of their own kind.
The 88 sec. of the D.& C. says intelligence cleaveth unto intelligence; wisdom receiveth wisdom; truth embraceth truth; virtue loveth virtue......
No matter who or where we are God knows us for who we 'really' are, and once we have felt His presence that feeling never leaves; it is always in the heart. We can choose to be as close to Him as we wish--wherever we are.

ATAR_i said...

Isn't it interesting that you don't believe anyone else has ever experienced God, that you are the only ones who are wise, have virtue and embrace truth.

Anonymous said...

Isn't it interesting that most religions think the same way? Christians, Moslems and others within even their own religion believe that no other religions can experience god other than themselves.

ATAR_i said...

Yes, it is.

Anonymous said...

Straight Shot say,
Street -- your prose is sadly dark. "So many children live at that beautiful gathering place" you said -- Is this gathering place Colorado City, the YFZ ranch, or Bountiful in Canada.

And if there are so many children then - where are they. There are serious concerns that at least half of the pre-teen children of the Warmenites in Colorado City are missing. In some cases their mothers are gone too - in very few cases their fathers are gone.

But in too many cases - there are young children missing and their mothers are left behind - so are their fathers.

There is no thing under the sun and God's blue sky that is beautiful about that.

Where are these children? Have they disapeared into the mountain after the Pied Piper? Or is the Pied Piper a rat who eats the children?

A profit and a leader who is a good man -- in all the histories have always worked with the people. Christ the greatest one of all worked in the streets, he prophecied and taught on the hilltops and took loaves and fishes to feed the multitudes. He didn't lock them up in a compound - spend millions of dollars to build a mighty temple, steal the children, and leave others to starve.

What say you then about "few there be that find it" Christs love and gospel was never hidden in secret combinations and horrors.

He put his light upon the hill and told all of his apostles and teachers to do the same.

Anonymous said...

I sugest you follow your own advice then and live unto Christ. Accusing and blaming will never get you closer to God. If you claim to know more about God, by all means let it show...

cheechako said...

atar_i 08/08/05 1:43 P.M.

I certainly didn't intend to give you that impression(that we are the only ones who know God). I just think that people prefer to be around others whose interest are like their own.
It's my belief that there are very many people, all over the world, who have nothing to do with my way of life, but are still very close to God.
God sees people differently than we do, for He knows their heart.

onthestreet said...

""Straight-Shot"": SO MANY CHILDREN (the text is for us, thus TEXUS). Now you know WHY the ""missing"" children who have merely followed their mothers or fathers, whoever is faithful to living pure lives. The rest are cast off.

"Who is my mother, who is my brother?"

Matthew 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 3:31 There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.
32 And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.
33 And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?
34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Luke 8:19 Then came to him his mother and his brethren, and could not come at him for the press.
20 And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee.
21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

Luke 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

Anonymous said...

Yada Yada Yada - Tell is something we don't know.

onthestreet said...

""Straight Shot"" Said (8/08/2005 5:57 PM):

"Christ didn't lock them up in a compound":

CURIOUS Reply: Malachi 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

You said: "What say you then about "few there be that find it" Christs love and gospel was never hidden in secret combinations and horrors.

CURIOUS Reply: So then, Christ is a LIAR??? Matthew 7:14: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Jesus Christ).

You Said: "He put his light upon the hill and told all of his apostles and teachers to do the same.

CURIOUS Reply: SEE, the whole world now sees the Prophet Yearning For Zion, AS A LIGHT ON A HILL which cannot be hidden,
"And the darkness COMPREHENDETH NOT THE LIGHT" (Jn. 1, Jn. 3).

ATAR_i said...

Anon 2:37, no one made you come here, and since you came here, enough to know that we are all liars and voyeurs, and speak absolutely no truth - my guess is - you've spent a lot of time reading and posting.

So really what I want to say to you - don't be so hard on yourself.

rumor-has-it said...

I personally really like this site and wish that more people would post. This is democracy in action. Everyone has a part to play, there are always the negitive and ugly to deal with in this world and why not be a part of the solution in a positive manner.

I have watched every person who has left the Creek become so discouraged and depressed and watch TV 24/7 and then I have watched them rebound and get moving and find friends and good jobs and make money. So my job is to encourage those who are down and talk about the issues and not just sweep them under the rug or "put them on the shelf" because that is why we are here to day. We were told if we didn't understand to just "put it on the shelf" and the day that shelf breaks is the day that reality sets in.

fttc said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

***, the whole world now sees the Prophet Yearning For Zion, AS A LIGHT ON A HILL which cannot be hidden,***

If there is any light there at all it is no more than a dinky little candle hidden under a bushel somewhere.

Anonymous said...

Not to change the subject, but I was wondering if anyone knew more about the CC EMT story. Is it true that some of them are working with the FBI to locate Warren? Some sort of Barlow revenge.

Anonymous said...

....be vewwy vewwy qwiet. We are hunting Wabbits!

---Elmer Fudd.

Anonymous said...

Kill the wabbit...kill the wabbit! Fuwwy wittle Warren wabbits!

onthestreet said...

How about the killing idea, signs of your cancer?

onthestreet said...

RUMOR Said: "We were told if we didn't understand to just "put it on the shelf" and the day that shelf breaks is the day that reality sets in. 8/09/2005 9:57 AM

STREET Reply: Another liar in action. Of course, YOU KNOW you NEVER WAS told that the day the shelf breaks is the day of reality. Anyone who lived there KNOWS that to be a LIE.

Reality is this: Life is a mystery, and God says it Himself: "I move in mysterious ways." So, many things are NOT understood. Mental Health professionals know that it is mentally healthy to put things aside temporarilly that are bugging us. So that turns out to be berry good counsel indeed, YES?

fttc said...

I won't convince street otherwise but to clarify for others.

We were told to put principles that were being changed and no longer made sense with the new teachings on the 'shelf'. There is a big difference between setting something aside for further research and blinding yourself to what you already know is true.

Anonymous said...

Not to change the subject, but I was wondering if anyone knew more about the CC EMT story. Is it true that some of them are working with the FBI to locate Warren? Some sort of Barlow revenge.

8/09/2005 5:49 PM

What is CC EMT story?

onthestreet said...

fttc: That's what every fallen people cried: "CHANGE," BLASPHEMY," "REVELATION", yet every so-called "change" FITS WITH THE WORD OF GOD.

Challenge here, WB, CP, CC? NAME ONE THAT DOESN'T. JUST ONE!!! AND I WILL HELP YOU SEE THE LIE.

Anonymous said...

Colorado City Emergency Medical Tech.'s Some sort of trouble with some of the younger ones partying in the firehouse

Anonymous said...

So, is our creator's Gospel the gospel of Calvinballism?

Anonymous said...

I find it a little strange that someone who can only be 'put away' for a MAXIMUM of 4 years would qualify as a candidate for America's Most Wanted and the FBI. It makes one question whether these prestigious organizations know more than they're letting on, or if this is a classic case of a 'personal vendetta'. Just food for thought!

Anonymous said...

It's a classic case of media ratings.

onthestreet said...

There you go: The charges are just personal vendetta AND media ratings (and I will add: Politics, pandering to public opinion).

Well put, guys.

Anonymous said...

Forgive me if I implied that he should NOT be put away. I only question the emotional involvement of the media, etc. I think that if the FBI or America's Most Wanted are serious about this whole thing, they should make very sure their ducks are in a neat and organized row. Otherwise, someone may end up with a little egg on thier face.

Anonymous said...

Forgive me if I implied that he should NOT be put away. I only question the emotional involvement of the media, etc. I think that if the FBI or America's Most Wanted are serious abou

Anonymous said...

Wonderful if John Walsh & America's Most Wanted are on the case of Warren Jeffs. Walsh busted polygamist Brian David Mitchell, he will bust ole Warren Jeffs as well. Well ole Jeffs has backed himself into a corner, he's got Morris Dees after him, John Walsh, the FBI, the Texas Rangers & and even Sheriff Doran after him.

Warren should follow the example of Joseph Smith who founded the LDS church, when faced with arrest, he peacefully turned himself in as mentioned in a post on pilot's thread on this site.
Warren Jeffs dosen't have the backbone of Joseph Smith to do the right thing, peacefull turn himself in. Come on Warren Jeffs choose the right, contact Sheriff Doran and turn yourself in, don't be yellow Jeffs, turn yourself in.

onthestreet said...

"And Jesus left Jerusalem, and HID HIMSELF."

"And I the Lord shall HIDE UP my treasure."

"And Joseph was continually escaping his enemies."

GET IT RIGHT, my child.

Anonymous said...

Oh, gag me!

onthestreet said...

John Chapter 8:59

Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus HID HIMSELF and went out of the temple.

Deuteronomy, Chapter 32:20
And he said, I WILL HIDE my face from them, I will see what their end shall be. . .34 Is not this laid up in store with me, and sealed up among my treasures? ...

Excerpt: Joseph Smith: The First Mormon (A Biography)The best full biography on the life of the Mormon prophet Joseph Smith Jr. ...
1839 Joseph ESCAPES from jail; had many narrow ESCAPES, and moves with the Saints to Commerce (Nauvoo), ...
www.signaturebooks.com/excerpts/first.htm

Who Was Dan Jones? Joseph Smith's Final Prophecy Literally Fulfilled
Dan Jones was one of the fellows who was with the prophet Joseph Smith when he was
... the next thirty-six hours Daniel Jones had narrow escapes from death.

www2.ida.net/graphics/shirtail/whowas.htm

onthestreet said...

HOW'S THAT FOR A GAG?

Anonymous said...

The only one I found interesting on that list was where he escaped from jail. The rest were escaping mobs. Escaping mobs is OK.

fttc said...

Street is grasping at straws. The only time Joseph escaped from jail was after being in it for 6 months in deplorable conditions and even his own lawyers were ignoring him and refusing him help. Hardly a comparison to warren. You gotta do better than this street.

Anonymous said...

The idea of comparing Warren Jeffs to Joseph Smith is so pathetic that it is hardly worth dignifying with a reply. Talk about comparing apples and oranges... Not even THAT close, those are at least both FRUIT!

ATAR_i said...

Does anyone know the dirt on this man - warren?

His nephew brought some to the surface - but what's the rest?

I remember as a youngster I watched all those around me do all these things and I just kept them in mental storage.

What do you guys have in mental storage about warren?

dish the dirt

the other mother said...

Warren's best device to use is called "conquer by dividing". If he saw an examplary family like Ron Robock's he divided them. If he saw two sisters that liked each other alot, he would divide them. He pits people against each other with out even them knowing it. If two people are doing good in business he would give one a mission and tell him to not the other partner. Then there would be a rift. I don't know him at all. Just from the pulpit. And what I see I don't like.

onthestreet said...

Ahh Atar, the dirt on this man is the dust on his shoes, and he shakes off the dust of his shoes as a testimony against you. And now, God is beginning to preach his own sermons against you.

"Other mother" (apostate no doubt) goes into a long detailed description of the Prophet, and then finally having exhausted her tiny lungs with her lies, finally confesses "I DON'T KNOW HIM AT ALL"

FINALLY, TRUTH COMES OUT.

Anonymous said...

Dear Streetie,
You do not know the prophet either.

FINALLY, TRUTH COMES OUT.

Onewaystreet

God is beginning to preach his own sermons against you.

onthestreet said...

Now, there is a truth. I do not know him nearly as well as I'd like to, and hope to be able to endure all things.

We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Anonymous said...

Why do you want to know someone so perverted??? Anybody who can divide families, and i PERSONALLY KNOW THEM, is a sick perverted pig. THere are a couple things I personally would like to see happen to him myself. HOwever, I'm just God-fearing enough to know that God WILL be the judge and someone who has committed such grievous atrocities against so many people, innocent or not will be punished. WJ will get his just desserts, we all should just hide and watch.

onthestreet said...

Yes, while Warren is eating dessert, you will not even be on the main course. You're not even weened, my child.

Not Peace But A Sword

Matthew 10:34-42 (NJB)
34. Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth: it is not peace I have come to bring, but a sword.

35. For I have come to set son against father, daughter against mother, daughter–in–law against mother–in–law;

36. A person’s enemies will be the members of his own household.

37. No one who prefers father or mother to me is worthy of me. No one who prefers son or daughter to me is worthy of me.

38. Anyone who does not take his cross and follow in my footsteps is not worthy of me.

39. Anyone who finds his life will lose it; anyone who loses his life for my sake will find it.

40. Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me; and anyone who welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me.

41. Anyone who welcomes a prophet because he is a prophet will have a prophet’s reward; and anyone who welcomes an upright person because he is upright will have the reward of an upright person.

42. If anyone gives so much as a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is a disciple, then in truth I tell you, he will most certainly not go without his reward.

Open our minds, Lord, to understand your Word, and shape our hearts to show your Word forth in our lives. Amen.

ATAR_i said...

warren isn't eating dessert - he's too busy playing hide and seek. Haven't you seen him? Been playing so long he looks like he's starving.

mugwump said...

NJB? Don't think I've seen one of those translations in any Christian book store.

N=new? J=joseph? B=Bible?

If joe got it right the first time why do you need a new version?

doth this one speaketh in modern english?

onthestreet said...

There is truth everywhere. The NJB version has some truth too:

We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

8/11/2005 6:31 PM

onthestreet said...

New Jerusalem Bible (NJB - 1985)

ATAR_i said...

Interesting Street - the new Jeruselam Bible was motivated by a desire to make the Jerusalem Bible more accurate - however, many of the revisions make it less accurate than it's predecessor due mainly to changes made so as to avoid linguistic "preference for the masculine" - using "inclusive language"

You use a neutered, demasculated Bible Street - very interesting indeed.

mugwump said...

Oh, so then you read something other than Joe's KJV. Isn't that against the rules? Have you just committed a grevious sin? Who is your interpreter?

onthestreet said...

Atar (8/12/2005 7:22 PM):
See how liberal I am! "The liberal soul shall be made FAT."
So you liberals take note. Obesity is now an epidemic in America,

onthestreet said...

Most "educated" derelicts don't listen too well:

Just five posts ago, I said this:
There is truth everywhere. The NJB version has some truth too:

We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things. 8/12/2005 4:07 PM

ATAR_i said...

Just dig a little bit deeper - you're almost finished with the hole your digging for yourself.

Wow, no wonder you got the boot from warren - you are just too wacked.

Liberal today, conservative tomorrow

Pro choice today, anti-abortion tomorrow

You just float on whatever cloud drifts past don't you.

onthestreet said...

God is all in all, and Paul says: "I am all things to all people." The Lord and the prophet rebuke, yet adjust THEMSELVES to the capacity of the child, like any good father or teacher. So angel-like, we float on whatever cloud or soul drifts past us.

ATAR_i said...

Doesn't sound like scripture to me - sounds highly editorialized - and totally devoid of any spiritual significance.

You can drift whatever way the wind blows you - just like dust (dead skin, dirt, hair, garbage). But no matter where you settle, you will still be a dust (something unwanted that covers up things that are beautiful).

But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

onthestreet said...

‘Many will say to me on that day "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and drive out demons and perform many miracles?" Then I will tell them plainly "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!"’

mugwump said...

The attempt to have intelligent exchange with OTS is akin to swimming through muddy water without the benefit of a compass. You swim until you run out of air and still wonder where it was that you were going and why you even started the journey. He is incapable of maintaining rational thought.

onthestreet said...

Logical Symbols
The propositional calculus is not concerned with any features within a ...The " ~ " signifies logical negation; it simply reverses the truth value of any ...
www.philosophypages.com/lg/e10a.htm
Is it Rational to Believe in God? Debate -- Micheal Planck Third ...
So to be rational does not mean to have a logical, deductive proof for ...ask what the value of being rational is, if it is not a guarantee of truth. ...
www.bringyou.to/apologetics/p75.htm

Is it Rational to Believe in God? Debate -- Apolonio Latar Second ...
First, this means that we are not rational in believing in induction The laws of logic are not testable In fact, they are prior to the external ...
www.bringyou.to/apologetics/p74.htm
A Primer on Logic
Rational Justification and Logic; The Structure of Arguments ... The fact that valid reasoning is not dependent on the actual truth of the premises of an ...
www.nwmissouri.edu/~rfield/primlog.html

mugwump said...

pi X r2 X H; x + y = m5; the cremation of a creole in a crater wearing a cravat, with a crayon in his cranberry colored jumpsuit will crawfish a counselor with a cosine of cartisone. This is so only if Corsica's corundum requires cosmentic surgery or a costly costumed courtesan, hanging from a cottonwood tree passes gas on the fourth Monday of the current quarter.

This is an example of the giberish we feel that we are exposed to each time you attempt to support any argument with evidence not available to the average school library.

If you can't make intelligent statements, get your own blog.

ATAR_i said...

hehehe muggy - aint it the truth.

GBNF said...

Atar,
Warren had a sister named Valerie... She said Warren and brother Lyle had both "worked her over" when she was young. She died a couple of months ago. Drug overdose...Her family refused to help bury her. Wanted her to be put in a mass grave with the city homeless. They used her up, took her soul, and left her to die in the gutter.

I think if you looked into the Jeffs family several of Warren's younger siblings have been victimized and then been made to victimize. They all have drinking and/or drug problems.

onthestreet said...

ALL SIBLINGS DO? MAYBE ONE!

I for one know that Warren and Rulon worked day and night to save those who would. I heard them, and watched them do it. Did you? Well, did you? Or do you just guess, and pass the gas of gossip from others doing the same guesswork, and on and on it goes, and where you STOP no one knows. Or was you one of those CAUGHT, and kicked out?

Hey these are truly FAIR questions.
These people have the right to see both sides of a story, to see if it's his-story, or just a tale.

ATAR_i said...

They did not take care of their own. They did not act like the stranger on the highway - the one who acted like Jesus.

When his own looked past him....a stranger came.

I'm sorry to hear about Valerie - she was younger than warren? Was he one of the older ones?

Did she end up going to the mass grave? Does anyone know more about Valerie?

GBNF said...

Her ex husband took care of her. He had her cremated, and gave the ashes their kids.
Streety,
Warren was at a point where he was on his way out. Rulon bribed him into staying with the control of Alta Academy. Warren was also involved in Satan Worship as a teenager. As well as being obsessed with Adolf Hitler.

I have partied with many a Jeffs. Drinking, drugs whatever it took to numb up the past. How many of the Jeffs are not in the religion, street? Did you forget about Rulons fallen children? More than one! The ones that left have more of a conscience than the ones that stayed.

ATAR_i said...

How did he get into Satan worship? And do you know why he was obsessed with Hitler?

How many children of Rulon left - and where are they?

How many children did he have total (I'm really curious) - how old is the oldest - and how young is the youngest - if you know - approximates are fine.

mugwump said...

gbnf:

Your post of 6:46 is of great interest. Any light that you can shine on the creature of darkness posing as God's prophet is urgent.

Your witness may save countless lives.

ogre said...

wow, never heard the stories about devil worship, at least in his younger days. can you give more info???

furnace said...

I was never aware of Warren being involved in Satan Worship, but in an interview with Uncle Rulon, he was very sad looking and told me that he had just got done talking with one of his sons who had "considered" Satan worship when pressured by two of his other sons. Uncle Rulon told me that anyone who even considers Satan worship has gone too far. He told me, "that son is now a bastard, and not a son for even considering Satan worship." Incidentally, I never brought up the subject, but I just sat and listened while he talked a little about the subject.

He may have been a bit hot-under-the collar, but that is still what he told me.

I just hope that no-one at YFZ has had to take blood-oaths of secrecy. Now, if they have, then that would definitely describe more of the Satan Worship conversation I had.

furnace said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
onthestreet said...

GBNF Said: "I have partied with many a Jeffs. Drinking, drugs whatever it took to numb up the past. How many of the Jeffs are not in the religion, street? Did you forget about Rulons fallen children? More than one! The ones that left have more of a conscience than the ones that stayed." 8/15/2005 6:46 PM

STREET's Reply: Yes, the Prophet CAST OUT HIS VERY OWN! See, now you all know that Godlike, "he is no respector of persons".

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him;" "And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him;" "But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons;" "And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear" (Acts 10: 34, 35; Eph. 6: 9; Col. 3: 25; I Pet. 1: 17).

If God is truly no respecter of persons and treats all men equally (in the sense being addressed), then we would expect to find certain cardinal truths in the Bible to be conducive to and harmonious with the fact of God not being a respecter of persons. Let us see if this is really the case.

All men are under the same law. Men today, regardless of race, education, or location, are under the "perfect law of liberty" (Jas. 1: 25). Let us appreciate the fact that while the Law of Moses (designed for the Jew) has been abrogated, we are under the law of Christ (Gal. 6: 2; I Cor. 9: 21). This law is unique in that it is law and grace combined; hence, the perfect law of liberty (see Jn. 1: 17). The gospel, Jesus' law, was to be preached to the whole world (Matt. 28: 19; Mk. 16: 15, 16). In fact, in about twenty-five years all had heard the gospel (Rom. 10: 18).

mugwump said...

A man of few words......very few of which make sense.

onthestreet said...

Yes, those were the fewest words I ever say you post. But hey, don't be so hard on yourself. Some of your words make sense.

mugwump said...

don't try to communicate, you don't have the ability.

mugwump said...

Over the wall:

Not knowing whether you live in a small community, a medium sized town or a large city it would be extremely difficult to name activities that would be wholesome but at the same time express your independence.

All of us, who are adults, have been over the same ground as you are now experiencing. Please, above all, make sure that the people with whom you choose to associate are people who are not out for purposes of defying parents or tradition. Make sure that they are not a bunch of show offs.

Time your outings to hours when you can best expect to find people who share your values. Hopefully, your parents have taught you to make wise decisions.

Before committing to any activity, be true to yourself. Ask yourself, if I agree to participate in this activity am I honoring myself, my family, and above all, my Lord. I think if you judge your participation in any activity by these standards you will choose only those activities that are in your best interest.

God Bless You

onthestreet said...

So was that from one of the LDS leaders at a fireside chat? Regardless! It's good advise.

"We accept truth wherever it is found." Joseph Smith

Joseph Smith introduced the idea when he reasoned that Noah had ... law to support the truth, wherever it is found. God's will for... www.nccg.org/nefilim/ch3.html

NEFILIM: ... false angels can appear to people. Satan will continue to fight the truth wherever it is found... www.nccg.org/nefilim/ch7.html

Times & Seasons - Comments on More on Civility ... as fellow Saints. Joseph Smith famously said that even ... claim to truth wherever it is found will necessarily have to look outside of the mainstream. www.timesandseasons.org/wp-comments-popup.php?p=1316&c=1

mugwump said...

ots

I don't care if Joseph Smith, Uncle Roy, Uncle Rulon, Uncle Warren or Mickey Mouse said thus.

Their discourses are irrevelant.

They don't have the much sought and claimed keys nor have they ever had the keys. There aren't any keys. The only keys that they may own are those of a jailer. Upon their own command they place in bondage all those who become slaves to the practice of a polygamist life style. They have demonstrated a peculiar selfishnesness as too often becomes the case of an individual who has gained absolute authority.

Faithful Woman said...

mugwump

that is rather close minded isn't it?

Anonymous said...

Selfishness?

Pretty darn selfish to hog the blog, Mugwump.

mugwump said...

Every time you open this blog you have the opportunity to express your opinion. I will continue to do so. Our freedom to express our thoughts is guaranteed by the first amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

I live in the United States of America. I also can worship in accordance with my own choice. It has not been forced upon me since infancy.

I am a member of a church. Why? Because of God's invitation and my acceptance. I wasn't automaticly baptized when I was eight years old. My baptism followed my repentance of sin, my public profession of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and my belief that He is able to keep that to which I have given Him, against that day(the day of judgement).

My soul belongs to Jesus. That alone is my faith and that my soul is in care represents His Grace. I don't have to keep getting his attention, He knows my every thought and deed. He knows I slip and sin occasionally.

When I confess those sins I remember that He died, once for all, and that ALL includes me. It not only means that He died for me, but that He died for you too. He will become Your Savior when you humble yourself, ask forgivness and allow Him to be at the controls of your life.

onthestreet said...

MUGGY, you are getting very defensive, in saying:

"I live in the United States of America. I also can worship in accordance with my own choice."

Hey, SAME WITH FLDS!

onthestreet said...

You're right, Muggy. God don't make no junk, so don't get down on yourself.

You say: "He will become Your Savior when you humble yourself, ask forgivness and allow Him to be at the controls of your life."

All very good, but "How can you hear without a preacher," or "How can you be administered to without a lawful administrator", and How can you know a true prophetd?

"By their fruits shall they know." Children are the fruits of your loins, and the FLDS brings forth more souls of unwavering faith, or "the good seed," per family kingdom than any other community on the planet.

"Some 30, some 60, and some 100."
Some of the seeds fell on the good soil and grew and some produced 100-fold, and some produced 60-fold and some produced 30-fold. (Mt. 13:8)

mugwump said...

You still don't get it......I don't care about the FLDS, but I am going to continue to share my Christian Testimony on this blog. If you have a right to put up your beliefs, I have the same right. And when I see claims made that don't jive with God's Holy Word, The Bible, I'm gonna' say something about it.

Let me clarify my lack of care about FLDS. Your heiarchy can take a leap, I won't pursuade them anyway.

This is aimed at anyone who has begun to doubt the truth of what they have been force fed all their life by LDS, FLDS or any splinter group from off the same. I must tell them that they have a choice. If I fail to do so I have failed in my witness to the saving Power of Jesus Christ. I don't do it to gain brownie points. I do it to scatter seed. God reaps the harvest. I refuse to be compromised.

onthestreet said...

See your violence and your own confessed "lack of care."

Hey Muggy. Even thou you are evil to us, we care very much what happens to you, and would never want you to "take a leap", except for a leap of faith.

Yes, all have a choice, but there are consequences to every "choice" and what millions call "choice" is the outright MURDER OF LITTLE CHILDREN. Then you speak of the saving power of Jesus Christ.

The Lord refers to the proud and stubborn who "refuse to be compromised" as a wicked and stiffnecked generation that will be cast into the fire, not being like little children who are pliable and teachable.

So like a stiff clay in the potter's hand, you fly to pieces and cannot be formed into a vessel of honor.

mugwump said...

Your reasoning is pathetic.

You quote a lot of ?scripture? but you don't know the God or the Jesus of the BIBLE.

READ IT, YOU WILL BE SURPRISED AT WHAT YOU WILL LEARN.

onthestreet said...

So, that's your only reply, saying nothing of the points just made, except that I "quote alot of scripture"? Does that mean that there is something WRONG with scripture? In fact, you've got question-marks on BOTH SIDES of "scripture", to emphasize that you are questioning the scriptures. It seems that the more a person is a student of the Word (that is, utilizing and leaning on His very word, and alot of it), KNOWS GOD MORE than one who questions his very Word.

You make Eldorado proud.

onthestreet said...

And I make my English Teacher prouder.

mugwump said...

It is not my intent to give anyone over to pride. If you really knew the scripture you would undoubtedly know that "pride" was Satan's sin.

I don't claim to know Joe Smith's writings, or the writings of later LDS prophets, elders, diciples etc. I have read them but found them to be so poorly written, rambling and extremely difficult to determine the author's purpose. No relics supporting Smith's claims anywhere in the western hemisphere. The manner in which the "plates" were reportedly found and translated, the defection of all the witnesses to having seen the "plates" (except as having seen them 'in the spirit'), the revisions, the re-revisions, the edicts and withdrawal of edicts, the questionable languages and the translation thereof by learned scholars who have denounced Smith's ability to decipher any form of Egyptian, the reputation of not only Smith, but his closest associates as being charltans, the pronouncement of polygamy, the murders of your own leaders. The child abuse, kidnappings, etc., etc., to infinity. Your denial of The Omnipoent, Omnipresent, Transcendent, Self Existing, Immutable, not Eternal God of Heaven and the denial of the One and Only Begotten of the Father, Jesus, the Virgin birth, the claim that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers, that God and Adam are One and on and on and on.

I can go on and on, You nor anyone else has given me one supporting item of proof to Smiths' claims, writings, edicts etc. Mormons have proven to be resourceful, hard working people. It's not the people whom I oppose it's the leadership of your church whether LDS, FLDS, or any group claiming to have Smith's word as THE WORD.

If I have spelled a word or two wrong it is because I am writing directly to this thread and don't have a spell-checker. As to mistakes in grammer etc., they are strictly my own. I am tired and wish to finish this task asap, but I cannot go with responding to the query.

onthestreet said...

All created beings are the children of God, brothers and sisters, yes? So then, why would not Jesus and Satan not have been brothers, sons of God, one His Only Begotten, and the other a "son of the morning"?

Muggy's a little muggy on this. Somebody help him out.

onthestreet said...

So, mugs, what did you mean in your last sentence above: "I cannot go with reponding..." So you're acknowledging your inability to respond, or just your many "mistakes" as you called them?

Keep trying. You're learning.

mugwump said...

if you didn't understand, you never will. I can't make it much simpler.

onthestreet said...

Ahh, butt did YOU understand, saying you "CAN'T RESPOND", and that "the mistakes are strictly your own", and that your are just "tired". Well put, putt putt.

Okay, I'll give you a bone: You said: "You nor anyone else has given me one supporting item of proof to Smiths' claims, writings, edicts".

Here's one you can chew on. Then I'll have to put your collar back on"

It is in the historical record (LDS AND NON-LDS) of Joseph declaring that "bloodshed would begin at South Carolina". Lo and behold, that is exactly where the Civil War began just a few DAYS later.

It is like Jesus proclaiming his own bloodshed, and that he would rise up the third day. Lo and behold, that is exactly what happened just a few DAYS later.

Jesus also said: "No greater love hath a man than to lay down his life for his friends".

Joseph said: I go freely like a lamb to the slaughter (they had blamed him of cowardice). If my life is not worth more than that to my friends, it is not worth anything to me".

Let me see, how many "SUPPORTING ITEMS" is that?

Here's more...Oh, I'll just say this, or else you'd have a post as long as the heavens: You will find, AFTER you are able to peel of the layers and layers of prejudice and peer pressure and personal corruption and sin, that EVERYTHING JOSEPH SAW AND SAID AND DID proved his claims and writings and edicts.

Yes, Joseph ever rose up from the dead. Daniel Bateman and others even shook hands with him in 1886, 42 years after his enemies thought they'd done him under (hey, it was in the success newspaper). Now, he rules in eternal glory, and they all languish in eternal torture and damnation.

onthestreet said...

Of course, Muggy, when you're muggy about things, NOT ONE supporting item will do, for a wicked generation seeketh after a sign. A knowledge of the truth only comes by faith, me laddy, by steps of faith and grace, married together. How so??? The wicked even witnessed the raising of the dead, and crucified their Lord.

Such is the perversity and pride of the wicked.

mugwump said...

If you don't understand, you never will. Oh well, retreat to your la-la land, where our prophet dwells and everyone is enslaved, find some new toys to amuse you. You are such a bore.

mugwump said...

"our" prophet is a typo. It should have been "your" prophet.

onthestreet said...

Ahh, but you have it right the first time. In things eternal, he is the governing official for all mankind in this generation, the same as all the prophets were. If you reject the King's gift, then you have no treasure in heaven.

onthestreet said...

That typo should be an omen to you. The Lord himself was guiding your fat, stubby, little fingers across that Texas keyboard, at least in that one little typo, for all to see. "God moves in mysterious ways," and "works his wonders in the smallest things."

mugwump said...

No I didn't have it right the first time. That why the second post was made.

onthestreet said...

Well, you seldom do have it right, my friend. A fine, fine confession, if I don't say so myself. See, confession aint so bad. Did you die from it?

mugwump said...

I've been looking to as an example of truthfullness, candor and confession. I'm stil waiting.

mugwump said...

I made another mistake. (Shame-shame) I left the pronoun "you" out of the first sentence. It should have been: I've been looking to YOU as an example of truthfullness etc.

Not being a supporter of OTS or WJ anyway, I'm probably doomed, by their standards anyway.

ogre said...

Mugwump:
I have been reading oyur exchanges with OTS and I thought I'd tell you why a lot of posters including me are staying out of it. For one thing you two are on totally opposite sides of the religious divide, you devoutly born again and OTS devoutly freakin insane.
I think you do a great job debating OTS, but your doses of mormon bashing tend to put some of us off.

ATAR_i said...

Please don't go away Ogre. I've done my fair share of poking fun - and accept part of the responsibility if you feel the environment is hostile.

I'd much prefer to chit chat with normal folk - but every once in awhile a good scramble with ots has been fun (and easy to win/dominate).

mugwump said...

Thanks ogre

I'll try to keep my mormon bashing to a minimum. But there are so many indiscrepencies between the teachings of Joseph Smith & Co. vs. the Bible, it's hard not to take issue.

Also the collection of books I read from the library, from my own and friend's libaries have helped to form my opinion regarding the abuse of women and sexual abuse of children. If these reports are true, and they all reflect similar experiences, the priesthood council generally will take the part in behalf of the abuser rather than the abused. That leaves the most vulnerable without a voice and that is really hard to swallow.

onthestreet said...

When you swallow without a voice, you are stoic, and obtain the apple of Adam's eye. Does not the Lord command: "Be still, and know that I am God?" Thus, the Prophet is still, and he KNOWS, as do also his people. As for me, ahh, onthestreet>

onthestreet said...

Mugs said: "I made another mistake. (Shame-shame) I left the pronoun "you" out of the first sentence. It should have been: I've been looking to YOU as an example of truthfullness etc.
Not being a supporter of OTS or WJ anyway, I'm probably doomed, by their standards anyway.
8/27/2005 10:08 AM

There you go. The children of darkness who look to the children of light will obtain light, and may not be entirely doomed. Well put, my friend.

mugwump said...

2nd. time. You are such a bore.

onthestreet said...

KJV Dictionary / B / BORE. KJV Dictionary - bore ... To penetrate or break through by turning or labor; as, to bore through a crowd...
av1611.com/kjbp/kjv-dictionary/bore.html

NIV19, Leah conceived again and bore Jacob a sixth son... And they bore young that were streaked or speckled or spotted...
www.bbintl.org/bible/niv/nivGen30.html

NIV4, Adah bore Eliphaz to Esau, Basemath bore Reuel, ... 12, Esau's son Eliphaz also had a concubine named Timna, who bore him ... KJV · German · Spanish ...
www.bbintl.org/bible/niv/nivGen36.html

1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bore our sins in his body(KJV) Who himself bore our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live to righteousness; by whose stripes ye were healed...
bible.cc/1_peter/2-24.htm

ATAR_i said...

yawn

onthestreet said...

Yawn??? My post wasn't even one-hour long!!!

Jesus said, "Watch and pray".[Matt 26:41] When His disciples slept in the gardenof Gethsemane, He asked, "Could you not watch one hour? ...

ogre said...

Mugwump:
thanks for your reply, I was raised in the "flds" group and left 15 years ago. I am at the point in my life where I have realized that I need to raise my family in the best way possible, and only through prayer and Gods blessings is that possible.

I heard once the bible quote" All tables are full of vomit etc" I think from Isaiah and thought about all the factions of polygamous groups I have been around. It seems like everybody is at the same table with the same vomit, just different waiters...

mugwump said...

I feel your pain. Church spats are really not a part of God's plan. He gave Hill all for us, why can't we recipricate?

mugwump said...

"Hill" sould be "His" Another typo, guess I'm doomed, at least according to bots.

onthestreet said...

No comment. Typos are nothin. They don't pruve or disprov anyting,so tipe awey (;

Anonymous said...

god gave you a brain so use it you know what is right god sead with none is he displeased only those who do not econolodge his hand in all things but you have to look to god first if you think you make your own rules and be in the right you are no difrent then enyone elts he god has set them forth all of this sounds like weeping walling and naching of teeth

Anonymous said...

god gave you a brain so use it you know what is right god sead with none is he displeased only those who do not econolodge his hand in all things but you have to look to god first if you think you make your own rules and be in the right you are no difrent then enyone elts he god has set them forth all of this sounds like weeping walling and naching of teeth

Anonymous said...

"weeping walling naching of teeth"?

sounds like too much candy, go see a dentist

is that from willy wonka???

Anonymous said...

it sounds more like street trying to be cute.

onthestreet said...

Don't blame rotten teeth and other parts onthestreet.

onthestreet said...

Nor blame anonymous for the typos. The colonel of truth remains.

mugwump said...

typos result of mild dyslexia, arthritis and less than perfect eyesight. In the context of the previous statement colonel should be spelled kernel.

onthestreet said...

or typo.