Tuesday, July 12, 2005

People and Places #3

People and Places Post #3
This area is specifically for people looking for information on the people from Short Creek, YFZ, and Bountiful (hopefully I haven't left anyone out). Many people are trying to share information aboutfriends and family that they have lost touch with.
Please help them and keep this post for this purpose.

144 comments:

Anonymous said...

Can anyone tell me when and more importantly why the clinic ended up having a wall and gate, plus cameras? What prompted that? Since it closed, now where are people going for medical care? Are woman having babies at home now?

I'm concerned about the health of my sister who is there...

Anonymous said...

I wonder, could it be that people got on t.v. and told there lies, and some one wanted privacy? You ask for information: The rest is not your business. And maybe your sister wants privacy from the lies too: did you ever think of that. I am sure if she wanted to contact you she would have. Pray. Maybe a mericle will happen for you.

Anonymous said...

What on earth are you people afraid of? Where is the light that is set on a hill? Why on earth would anyone in the world want to be like you are? Wasn't that the message of the fundamental faith of Mormonism? Weren't the kings of the earth going to see your good works and want to come be like you are? Fundamentalists! What a laugh to think that repentance is to bring your family, have them taken away and put somewhere they don't want to be, with someone they don't want, all the while the only religion in their life is to look to the holy prophet, and he has gone missing! Really, get a life and call yourselves something else. YOu are a disgrace to Mormonism.

Christopher Trottier said...

So are you for or against polygamy?

quiet canadian said...

Amen to 11;32 BLOGGER. I myself am a Fundamentalist LDS. I am embarrassed by what Warrenism has done to our faith. There has been no light to shine. The Kings of the earth did notice the light of our people when Uncle Roy was alive. The Lord has been warning us that if we didn't do better, then the destroying angel would go through our people. If the Lord is using Warren for anything, it is just that. The destroying angel.

Anonymous said...

.... yeah, yeah fundamentalism
when things are good, thank god, sit back and enjoy the bounties of life
when things go bad, blame mankind, point fingers, drown in your own demise. wait and do nothing

... you guys are blind
your system was broke
warren's trying to fix it
he just has really really bad sense of humor

amen and...
get back to the subject of the thread

keep sweet eldorado
stg

Anonymous said...

keep sweet

Why were things good when we thanked God? Why have they gone bad now? What has warren fixed?

Your sense of humor is the really really bad one!

ATAR_i said...

As a non-polygamist gal, I've got to say that if the FLDS didn't have girls under 18 marrying, and if they wanted food stamps support - they were honest on the application (I'm married), and if they didn't throw young boys out of town, and disown families that were no longer believers, or turn over to another the house that a man had built, or redistribute wives and stuff like that - I WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN INVOLVED.

You can teach what you want, seriously, and live with multiple wives, but does all the shady, mean stuff have to go with it? Can your religion be practiced without all of that. I'm guessing since you existed for so long without a ton of attention - IT CAN.

You just have someone (warren) who needs a tad bit more attention FROM EVERYONE, and that includes law enforcement.

And yeah - gotta get rid of the cops who don't act at all like cops, who are servants to the prophet and don't uphold the law.

Get a nice private school that teaches both sexes equally - not to heavy on the home ec - when the girls are 18 they can decide. Let them at least have the ability to go to college with the education they received if they choose.

And, no matter what - love them.

Anonymous said...

I am reposting this...hoping that this thread will get back on track.
In response to what 11:09 said...it's men like you I'm trying to save my sister and her children from!


****************
Can anyone tell me when and more importantly why the clinic ended up having a wall and gate, plus cameras? What prompted that? Since it closed, now where are people going for medical care? Are woman having babies at home now?

I'm concerned about the health of my sister who is there...

Anonymous said...

And I wonder, could it be that the media is full of lies and these people wanted privacy. Maybe your sister wanted it too. If she wanted to see you, she would call. Pray! maybe God will open a door for you.

Anonymous said...

Federal Warrant for Warren Jeffs

http://www.kvpress.com/news/articles05/0712jeffs.htm

Hell hath no fury like the FBI.

Anonymous said...

I think my sister is as brainwashed as you, except she's in poor health, so she may need some help, I'm trying to piece together what happened, who is at fault...

Anonymous said...

Clinic Question?

Who said the clinic was closed.
There are two clinics.

One behind locked gates (Uncle Fred Jessops Place) It is behind a lock gate with electronic entry. It my understanding this is where the babies are born.

My question would be do they accept Medicare or Medicad or Wic at this clinc behind closed gates?

This would be something to look into.

Anonymous said...

Who is Leanne Keate Johnson? Do you know who she is married to? Where was she staying last? Do you have a picture of her? We can help if we know who to look for.

Anonymous said...

she is lonnie keates daughter married to bud johnson, larry johnsons son..she is 19 and has 2 kids..please find her and help her out

Anonymous said...

Does anyone have any info on Caress Holm Barlow? I used to be one of her best friends and worked with her at CMC.

Anonymous said...

Ruth your actions speak louder than your words. You know what Uncle Warren thinks about this blog. He had a public announcement made telling everyone to not partake of this evil, and you still do it. You say you are for Warren and that you love him but you dont do what he says. All you do is bicker, argue and criticize everyone else. Does that sound like something Warren would want you to do. If you love him do what he says.

Anonymous said...

Be nice to Ruth!

She's one of everybody's favorite people in here!

Anonymous said...

BS

Anonymous said...

Then what the hell are you doing here?

Anonymous said...

11;18 poster:

I am not trying to be rude, but do you think you would want to talk to some one if they called you brain washed and stupid? I hope you can come to peace with your sister. She may be your relitive, but you should be kind enough to let her live her own life. There are a lot of Good classes you can take for self help. Life is good if you look at good things. I hope your heart can heal and make amends.

Anonymous said...

Does Any body know the whereabouts
of Michelle Barlow Jeffs.Daughter of Art Barlow.Did she really escape
from YFZ compound?Has any one seen her in the last year?

Anonymous said...

I heard that Lee Bistline Sr. and two of his unmarried sons were kicked out today. Has anyone else heard about this and why? It's sad for his family.

Anonymous said...

12:18
It looks like the people on the school board are getting kicked out. If Lee B. is out then at least 3 school board members have been ousted since the school was raided by police. Look for the rest of them to be kicked out in the next month or so.

Anonymous said...

Oh, and one more thing 12:18. It is not sad for the family. It is a new opportunity for them to be something they cannot be under Warren, free with choices.

LTG

onthestreet said...

All the prophets declared that they were "strangers in a strange land." To be a stranger to all who are estranged from God, is to be everything with those prophets, with our prophet today, though he be a fugitive, or be arrested, or slain. Regardless, you only seal him in eternal fame. Without him, the Prophet of God in your generation, you are NOTHING, though your egos spew forth otherwise. Go ahead, let them spew. The Jews did, and they were cast off to the end. The first have become last, and the last shall be first, just as Christ decrees.

However, you will be saved, for Christ saves all except some (hah, figure that one out). And in your lowly but saved state, I'm sure that the FLDS elect will be pleased enough to administer to some of you still. This will never be by force. Thus, many of you will languish for millenia.

You are SO RIGHT: You will have to be something that you could not be under Warren.

ATAR_i said...

Stop being such a putz.

How is Lee Bistline related to Ben? In an interview Ben stated he lived in CC does he? on UEP land?

Anonymous said...

Lee and Ben are brothers.

Anonymous said...

Reply to Anonymous, at 7/14/2005 12:31

It looks like the people on the school board are getting kicked out. If Lee B. is out then at least 3 school board members have been ousted since the school was raided by police. Look for the rest of them to be kicked out in the next month or so.

"And another one's gone, and another one's gone, and another one bites the dust ..."

Anonymous said...

Reply to ATAR_i

Stop being such a putz.

How is Lee Bistline related to Ben? In an interview Ben stated he lived in CC does he? on UEP land?


Ben Bistline lives in Cane Beds. He was evicted from his CC home many years ago and was a party in the first lawsuit against the UEP after many residents were evicted.

The victims won the lawsuit and the UEP had to compensate them for the money they had in their homes.

After Ben was compensated, he moved to Cane Beds - a few miles down the road from Colorado City.

The UEP demolished his home (out of spite) and the land sits empty today.

fttc said...

LTG

I agree about the opportunity. If these 'kick-outs' would take a good look at themselves and what they got kicked out of they would feel like they had been kicked up and not down. However, it is sad for the family and them that many of them keep on believing in warren in spite of all.

ATAR_i said...

Interesting, I never even heard of cane beds. And, there is precedent for compensation too.

Now, does anyone feel like reopeining the church and having meetings on Sundays. I think that would be a great idea.

Anonymous said...

Hey, in all fairness, Uncle Fred made sure that Ben's wife, Annie, had a good home to go to. She told me that she had never had it so good. She really likes the home, and is very happy where she is. The home in CC was so horribly run down, it was worse than a getto. The only thing that kept it from collapsing the termites and cockroaches were holding hands!

Anonymous said...

Atar:

Cane Beds is a few miles South of CC....out of the UEP, with cheap land. Not really a town.

ATAR_i said...

....cockroaches holding hands - that's a hoot - good one!

Anonymous said...

what ever became of Rebecca Wall?
age around 23-27 yrs old now

Anonymous said...

SHE LIVES IN KOOS BAY OREGON AND WORKS AS A PIANO TEACHER LAST I HEARD SHE ALSO HAS A BABY.

Anonymous said...

To 12:34 AM
Yes it's good in that way but most of his family is so entrenched in the works of the town it will probably be years before they are able to freely love one other again.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone heard where Ora and her twin boys went?
Curious.

Anonymous said...

Do the FLDS go on honeymoons? If so, where do they go? If not, where do they usually spend their wedding night?

What is the best place to eat in CC?

How aware are the people of CC on what's going on in the world? If they can't watch TV, where do they get their news?

onthestreet said...

Church is the best place to eat. You get a veritable feast at every feeding, and the Gospel is the News.

Anonymous said...

Street,

That was helpful. You must be starving and clueless...

Anyone know the real answers?

HardHeaded said...

For the record people:
Uncle Benny moved out because his house caught fire. Uncle Fred saw it as an oppurtunity to relocate him and hooked him up with a trailer house in Cane Beds.

Anonymous said...

Well in my opinion Uncle Fred had the power go give Uncle Benny a better place to live, than a sand trap.

Anonymous said...

Well in my opinion, that's where he wanted to live.

Anonymous said...

Right next door to his son!

Anonymous said...

Annie was just being a sweetheart, because it really wasn't all that great. Maybe it just felt good to be out from under some of the people looking down their noses.

Fried Female said...

How aware are the people of CC on what's going on in the world? If they can't watch TV, where do they get their news?

They haven't got the faintest clue what is going on. They don't get the news in any way, not newspaper, television, radio, nada. All those have been banned. And they don't even know what's going on with their next door neighbor, except there's one moving in and one moving out. They're not sure if the one moving out is going to a different house in town or out on their ears.

And they are so petrified of questioning the "prophet" that they don't ask questions and have NO IDEA what is really going on.

Some of them are aware that Warren is wanted by the FBI but they honestly believe that it is all just religious persecution and that he has broken no law.

He can't afford to have them hearing the facts from each other or the media, so he has effectively seperated them from the world AND from each other.

Anonymous said...

Anon 4:31 pm 7/14 :
is she in the group or did she leave?

ogre said...

Does anyone know the status of DAle Hunter and family?I have heard that they are gone from the creek

Anonymous said...

Once again, please someone help me. Can anyone give me some info on Caress Holm Barlow? She's married to Amulek Barlow. We were good friends in school and worked at the store together.

onthestreet said...

Okay, she's married. So why seek ye another man's wife, or the woman's husband among the living, you being dead?

Anonymous said...

We should start a special thread dedicated to insulting OnTheStreet.

Maybe we should start with....."Your mothers are so ugly that ......."

Anonymous said...

Haven't you notice STREET thrives on insults.

He just needs to post the Best of Street and just go away.

onthestreet said...
Okay, she's married. So why seek ye another man's wife, or the woman's husband among the living, you being dead?

7/15/2005 3:00 PM

Oh Yeah Street I guess this was written for Warren's sake. Good advice for your prophet.

Infact your prophet would profit from all your wisdom written here.

onthestreet said...

Written more for Winston's sake, and men like that. He said on his sharethelight.ca blog:

I know that the prophet Joseph is no further away these days than he was then, and he could bring his keys again and do whatever the Lord sends him to do.

WHAT! Bring them to who? Is Winston going to claim some revelation from on high? And how could one know it would be false, or that he is false NOW?

By what the Lord Jesus Christ said himself: "These keys will not be taken away again, until the Son of Man sits."

So then, why is Winston now saying that Joseph can now bring his keys again?

SEE THE FOLLY AND THE LIE? INDEED!

onthestreet said...

Remember, that all those wives separated from their rebellious husbands were sealed by God through his prophet, and therefore can be loosed by God through his prophet.

How so: The Lord Jesus Christ said it himself: "What you seal on earth shall be sealed in the heavens, AND WHAT YOU LOOSE ON EARTH SHALL BE LOOSED IN THE HEAVENS! The Word of the Lord.

onthestreet said...

Rulon Jeffs was then the Prophet of God, and acknowledged so by Winny Moreblack. And it was Rulon Jeffs himself who LOOSED Winston from the Church, and LOOSED all who were sealed to him, all who would, and all the others are loose anyhow.

Meanwhile, winny falls to the classic excuse that "the prophet was sick." God himself has decreed that the Priesthood keys shall not be taken from the earth again. Therefore someone had to hold those keys, and by winny's own confession it was Rulon. And is God not able to act through even a sick man. When Uncle Roy was accused of wrongs because he was "sick", Winston himself said 'bull'.

Quite a flip-flop for all the world to see.

Anonymous said...

Winston himself also said (same posting) that he doesnt spend much time dreaming up dreams, or in warrens world, schemes), or having visions. WHATS THIS "REVELATION FROM ON HIGH" CRAP?

NAME

Anonymous said...

Street

Give me the reference for your claim that the keys will not be taken. I need chapter and verse.

onthestreet said...

If you are a latter-day unbeliever (LDU), not believing in God's ability and his grace in giving revelations to men in these last days, then you'd be lost from the get-go. However, if you DO believe that he CAN AND DID do this in his love for ALL his children, and in fulfillment of Biblical prophecy, then here it is (for you only):

"Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah, I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins (5); and this shall never be taken again from the earth until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness. (May 15, 1829, Doctrine and Covenants 13).

Of course, there is more.

Anonymous said...

You'd better give me the more. That has no reference to the keys Warren claims to hold. At the time this was given to Joseph Smith the Lord had not given the High priesthood yet. Also what you said was "until the Son of Man sits" I think you are making up scriptures out of whole cloth again.

Anonymous said...

Give street a break. He is only doing what warren has taught by example. Warren has been fabricating scriptures for years now.

Anonymous said...

Have any of you read "The Little Known Discourse?" Who wrote it? JS?Anyone know where I can get a copy of it...can't find it online.

quote: "...the wife is pronounced the husband's property as much so as his manservant, his maidservant, his ox, his horse..."

That's the formula for a great marriage :)

Thanks

Anonymous said...

You know, I just had a revelation. The fact is, street is AGAINST Warren. That is why he is striving so hard to make everyone who follows him look so ridiculously STUPID!!! He says he follows his "Lord" and then he makes up idiotic things like this immaculate conception thing and tries to make everyone believe that ALL who follow Warren think, act and talk like this imbecile.

Pretty clever. If everyone who follows Warren talks like Street and thinks like street, NO WONDER they follow Warren!

But actually, they don't think like Street would like you to believe they do. He is just trying to make everyone out there LOOK bad.

hearts said...

Hi! Uncle Art. Just wanted to let you know that your "outside" friends care alot about you. And send our love. If there is anything we can do, please let us know.

onthestreet said...

Ahh, "until the Son of Man sits" is part of the scripture, unfabricated. I will not try to convince you who has the keys. Make up your own prophet, or no prophet at all. But for those who REALLY would like to know, Uncle Roy refers people to D&C: 6

Anonymous said...

Street better try again. You're grasping at straws to keep you affloat. The truth is no one you know holds them.
I only feel compelled to pin you down because you are on a public blog and going on like you have scriptural proof for what you say. It would be helpful and you would have more credibility if you stated opinions as such and not try to make them into scripture.

ATAR_i said...

Thanks Anon 5:27 - it's nice when someone says what FLDS *actually* believes, otherwise you wonder if it's OTS's twisted theology or FLDS theology.

For instance - he kept on talking about immaculate conception so much, and no one really said 'hey, that's not even something we learned - your just making it up' until just recently.

So, thanks.

Anonymous said...

Atar

Actually this doctrine of the keys of the high priesthood not being taken from the earth is somewhat of an FLDS belief. There may have been some references made to it before 1980 but I don't believe there is much. It definitely cannot be backed up with our scriptures. It has been taught the last 20 some years and is the reason many believe warren's claims are valid. An oft given rationale is "since the keys are never to be taken it must be him. There is no one else it could be". This is what OTS was referring to.
Just thought I ought to clarify lest I be guilty of streets antics.

Anonymous said...

D&C SECTION 90

2 Therefore, thou art blessed from henceforth that bear the keys of the kingdom given unto you; which kingdom is coming forth for the last time.

3 Verily I say unto you, the keys of this kingdom shall never be taken from you, while thou art in the world, neither in the world to come;
4 Nevertheless, through you shall the oracles be given to another, yea, even unto the church.

5 And all they who receive the oracles of God, let them beware how they hold them lest they are accounted as a light thing, and are brought under condemnation thereby, and stumble and fall when the storms descend, and the winds blow, and the rains descend, and beat upon their house.

Anonymous said...

"the keys of this kingdom shall never be taken from you, while thou art in the world, neither in the world to come"

These are words given specifically to the Prophet Joseph and cannot be stretched to apply to any one else.

Try again!

Anonymous said...

What has become of Amni Barlow? Son of Nephi who remembers everones name?

onthestreet said...

"ALL THAT BEAR THE KEYS" are blessed, says the Lord in this revelation, "WHICH SHALL NEVER BE TAKEN FROM YOU."

Try again! Hey, just learn how to read. Very kindergartenish.

Anonymous said...

Street
"all that bear the keys"

Who are you quoting? You put words in quotes but they are not to be found in the text. Give me the verses you are quoting. Once again you are reading between the lines just as warren has done these many years. There is no way you can make grammatical sense of this revelation and have it reference anyone other than JS in relation to the keys spoken of. Maybe you need to use more than your kindergarten education on this one. You do have more than that don't you?

Anonymous said...

atar_i, the reason we don't refute streety is that we assume everybody understands that if he says it, it is surely a twisted bunch of garbage.

onthestreet said...

Try this:

D&C SECTION 90

2 Therefore, THOU art blessed from henceforth THAT BEAR THE KEYS of the kingdom given unto you; which kingdom is coming forth for the last time.

3 Verily I say unto you, the keys of this kingdom shall never be taken. . .


THOU OR ALL THAT BEAR THE KEYS ARE BLESSED FROM HENSEFORTH (the Word of the Lord).
AND THE KEYS SHALL NEVER BE TAKEN (the Word of the Lord).

Does the little first-grader see it now. So simple that a child can understand it, but certainly NOT a child of the devil.

Anonymous said...

Like I said you are reading into it that which is not there.

THOU (Joseph, to whom He is speaking).

YOU (Joseph, singular pronoun).

OR All (Street's own words which he slyly inserts and places in the Lord's mouth)

You'll have to move up higher than first grade. Come on! You can do it!

Anonymous said...

Verse 5 is the one Warren should be losing sleep over, If he thinks he is that oracle.

Anonymous said...

All this makes an intereseting dialogue but you guys are way off topic here. There is a special request in the thread posting to keep this thread for those looking for others. Now Street, you're registered. Start your own thread.

Anonymous said...

Okay, the topic of this thread is "People and Places" I'd like to find out about a place. Has anyone ever been inside the Jeffs compound? What is it like? Where is it? How big, what color, etc.
I know it has a gate, but if he asked you to see him, how did you get in? Is that where you go for marriage assignments?
Please paint a picture for those of us who can't see it. I couldn't find a photo online...

fttc said...

You must be new here. Welcome aboard!

Try these addresses:

http://www.myeldorado.net

http://web.sccn2.net/flds/

onthestreet said...

Anonymous said...
Like I said you are reading into it that which is not there.

THOU (Joseph,

Oh, but the Lord didn't say: "Thou Joseph." He said "Thou that bear the keys." So all who bear the keys "shall be blessed", and those keys "shall not be taken away."

Now who it that's making up words?

Now, I posted this here because this is where this discussion has been going on, and because we're talking about People and Places, in this case which people truly hold the keys. This is the most crucial question of all, whose right it is to rule.

Obviously, everyone will go their own way, and only but few will stay attatched to the vine. You have your freedom to choose that, and I have my freedom to choose this truth, and this truth makes me free.

Anonymous said...

street

That's why I put MY words in parentheses, they are my words. If you would do the same I would not have a problem with it. And yes you have the right to beleive what you want.

My statement was that you cannot grammatically say that thou refers to anyone but JS. Read the first verse. Second verse is a continuation of words to him specifically. I know you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink and a mind convinced against its will is of the same opinion still. I've made this as plain as I can will not try again.

My apologies to everyone for responding in the first place. We really have clogged this thread with off-topic matter.

onthestreet said...

Here, let me help you. You talk of verse 1, and then try to shove it under the rug. What you afraid of?

Verse l: Thus saith the Lord, verily, verily I say unto you my son, thy sins are forgiven thee, according to thy petition, for thy prayers and the prayers of thy brethren have come up into my ears.

2 Therefore, thou art blessed from henceforth that bear the keys of the kingdom given unto you; which kingdom is coming forth for the last time.

So then, what exactly does the Lord say in verse 1? He says:
"...for thy prayers and the prayers of thy brethren have come up into my ears."

Ahh, we come to the truth. He actually is NOT limiting it to Joseph, but to him "AND HIS BRETHREN."

See? Then with that in mind, what does he say in verse two?

2 Therefore, THOU art blessed from henceforth THAT BEAR THE KEYS of the kingdom given unto you; which kingdom is coming forth for the last time.

Ahh, Him AND His Brethren from henceforth that bear the keys. Now we come to the truth: The keys in fact WILL NOT BE TAKEN AWAY, but continue "HENCEFORTH, and not just with Joseph.

I develop this fact because Winston is saying that the keys were taken away when Rulon died, to somehow justify himself in having a new revelation of Priesthood keys upon his head.

onthestreet said...

NOW LOOK AT VERSE 3:

3 Verily I say unto you, the keys of this kingdom shall never be taken. . .

Anonymous said...

Well then, Lets just keep on going:

"6 And again, verily I say unto thy brethren, Sidney Rigdon and Frederick G. Williams, their sins are forgiven them also, and they are accounted as equal with thee in holding the keys of this last kingdom;"

That should make Centenials day too, and give Winston all the room he needs.

onthestreet said...

The apostles hold the keys equal when faithful. God requires the faith and endurance of his children, or says he: "Ye have no promise."

Winston has NEVER been an apostle.
Nor were the good Centennial fokes faithful to Uncle Roy when they rejected him, and he them. So they didn't endure to the end as the Lord requires.

Anonymous said...

Thought you said it was like...forever, or was it never?

It's good you brought that up. Now we know why Warren is "losing it."

Anonymous said...

Sorry, I should of been more clear, I was referring to the compound in Hildale...

**original message**

Okay, the topic of this thread is "People and Places" I'd like to find out about a place. Has anyone ever been inside the Jeffs compound? What is it like? Where is it? How big, what color, etc.
I know it has a gate, but if he asked you to see him, how did you get in? Is that where you go for marriage assignments?
Please paint a picture for those of us who can't see it. I couldn't find a photo online...

Anonymous said...

street,
Do you know what it requires to be a Bishop?
Warren was never ordained to anything. Lest he did it himself!
Faithful? look around.

onthestreet said...

Hordes have said the same about every prophet, beginning with Joseph Smith, who said that when you are ordained to be an apostle, it is not a separate priesthood ordination, but a "setting apart," words to that effect. So since Warren was ordained an Elder way back in Uncle Roy's day, it wouldn't take a new ordination.

Besides, there were many years between the time that Uncle Roy passed and the time that Uncle Rulon became somewhat incapacitated. Not even the immediate family had to have known when he was set apart. For people completely outside of the family and even the church to say he wasn't ordained, speak out of the gaseous channels of rancidity.

Anonymous said...

All of the men who were called to the council through the years were ordained with 2 or more of the others present. So why did Warren need women to proclaim his supposed ordination and calling, where are the men that helped Uncle Rulon give Warren the supposed calling, why have they not come forth.

Anonymous said...

Street, for a brief moment there you sounded almost lucid.

Anonymous said...

Get real. Who here thinks that if Warren had been "ordained" he wouldn't have hearlded it from the housetops? He just suddenly acquired his authority complex the day his dad died? ...and "presided" at his own funeral, remember?

Anonymous said...

Warren came to Canada and told us that if you don't believe that father will live 300 years into the future without tasting death then you don't have the faith necessary. Now according to his fathers wives he was supposed to have been the key holder at the time. I am confused, was Uncle Rulon key holder. Must not have been or there wouldn't have been the olympics, or a bunch of other predictions, so it must have been Warren unless there were two key holders at the same time or may be four, the two of them and the two ladies and one brother, I guess that is a coucil of five, but Uncle fred didn't count. So if warren was it then why didn't nothin happen that he said was going to? It must have been Jonny Timpson after all except that guy don't act like one either. Help street! Do another revelation here, and tell us that undle rulon is still hanging around holding the keys in common with warren which stilldoesn't add up to the one man rule. If he is dead so warren can be the one man, then warren is the biggest scam liar in flds history.

onthestreet said...

. . .where are the men that helped Uncle Rulon give Warren the supposed calling, why have they not come forth. 7/17/2005 9:33 PM

Priesthood is not answerable to men. It's not a democracy, but a theocracy, remember???

onthestreet said...

No, Uncle Rulon passed. Plenty of funeral-goers can attest to that. However, any believer in prophecy and resurrection can conceive of a man being able to do as he seeth the Father do, to lay down his life and take it up again. So if he prophecied that he would live 320 years into the millenium, and you are a believer in all things ("We believe all things, hope all things, etc.), then it's a simple matter for a man to pass, then return, live 320 years into the Millenium, and then go do something else for the Lord. How difficult is that? However, you have to believe in prophecy and understand it in order to avoid the stumbling blocks. Prophecy doesn't transpire according to the demands of man, but according to the will of God.

Uncle Rulon passed; "One man at a time on the earth holds the keys." So you still have the one-man rule, and still EVERYTHING adds up.
But to the wicked, everying is still complete chaos, for their minds are in chaos.

Anonymous said...

And street's ignorance is bliss! He is so full of the Spirit not even the truth can make a dent in the bliss he dwells in.

ATAR_i said...

So Rulon was prophesied to live to 300 - and didn't.

And the Olympics were prophesied to never happen - and they did.

And the world was prophesied to end on April 6th (or so) - but it didn't

Gosh, if your prophets can't really prophesy - they'd make it up. And if they made it up - it would probably NOT happen (cuz real prophets would get it right all the time).

Any more "prophesies" that didn't come to pass?

Anonymous said...

no wonder you got kicked street. you just said uncle rulon died. Warreen is still checking in the backroom lookin at his picture and asking him all this stuff and the girls voice that is answerung from behind the big picture still got warren jumping to her tune. it is one man an many woman rule

Anonymous said...

Uncle Rulon was supposed to be renewed and his young wives would have babies. They even started making maternity dresses.

Anonymous said...

Then why did Warren marry them all if they were supposed to be rejoined with Uncle Rulon?

Anonymous said...

atar_i, these so-called "revelations" that you speak of--they didn't all come from Warren- the notion of the world coming to an end...I asked many of his followers about that and every one of them said that it was just a big media hype to make them look bad. This was BEFORE the BIG DAY that I asked. And then on that day, the only people who acted like anything was happening was the media! LOL! They are the ones who are believing lies! So I did some research on some of these other allegations, and guess what? I learned that Flora and others like her are taking stories BASED in fact and screwing them up, thereby turning them into ugliness. Really, atar_i, you seem so level-headed in so many ways.. yet you're so quick to believe any rumor that pops up on this blog. Did you know that it's possible that someone may be misleading you? You don't know all there is to know about their religion. This is the craziest world. What if they are RIGHT? What if a 13-year-old girl really did give birth?What if she was a virgin even AFTER she gave birth? What if she raised a Son who Redeemed the World from certain death by teaching the TRUTH- however unreal it seemed? What if the rumor that the Jews KILLED him for teaching this ugliness was true? What if He rose again and directed his own funeral? Or is that just too far-fetched? I wonder if any miracles ever happen? Like live and let live? "oh, no," you say,"not when it concerns forcing the little girls to marry ugly old men!" And we KNOW that's true! We saw it on the news! And I KNOW all Catholic priests join the Priesthood to screw little boys. And I also read that Jesus never was the Messiah- just a real awesome guy with some great ideas on how to be nice. Oh, also, did you know that if you believe in the Koran that you are not safe to fly the friendly skies? And if you believe everything ugly that you read, you're going to one depressed lady. The FLDS aren't the only ones saying that the world is coming to an end! You should check out the truths at the checkstand! I am so surprised that aliens haven't come in and stolen my wife and turned my kids into little monsters...oh! wait a sec....NO! NO! It DID happen! That's whats the matter with them! But fortunately we have Harry Potter to save us! Oh yeah, we Know the Truth! It's everywhere you look!
I have values, you have values, everyone has values, yet the world is spinning out of control. The monotheists are clashing with the polytheists, while atheists are laughing at us all, and the agnostics are trying to keep score so they can join whatever team has the most truths. Who sets the standards of truth? Who decides what laws are fair? And have we really come so far in this world that the MAJORITY is qualified to say when a girl is a woman? And who is responsible for the ridiculous notion that a girl is a "woman" when she starts menstruating? And why are we allowing our little girls to even HAVE periods? And another thing..why should we force our sons to abstain until they are more "grown up" before they are sexually active? This is cruel to make them wait like this...who thought of that idiocy? And why should we force them to be responsible for the babies they make? Can't we just kill them before they are born? And then if the Majority decides we have too many people, well, WE can vote on who should live, and who should be exterminated. I hope we blond, blue-eyed guys win..And then we could have a Pure Race, with Perfect Values! And then We can vote to do away with religion entirely so that we can all have the same opinions, the same values, the same ways, dress, looks smell...no wars, no sadness, no liars...of course, WE would have to Vote on whether there is a God...And if He is nice or mean. I personally would vote for a nicer one who would at least let us vote on whether we should have life after death, or what we want to be re-incarnated to. And of course He'd have to run the planet a lot smoother and not let cruel disasters fowl up our vacations. And no kids can die, and nobody gets hurt,and no fighting.....wait a sec...didn't somebody already come up with a plan like that? Hmmm...I wonder why we didn't vote for it in the first place...?

fttc said...

Wow! Atar must have struck close to home. He didn't even stop to take a breath!

Anonymous said...

Actually, fttc, it's closer to YOUR home than mine. I have never been FLDS..Only a fair, open-minded guy trying to live as honestly as I know how. It just kills me how much me and atar_i know. Since we are right there in the middle of it!!!

Anonymous said...

It just kills me sometimes how much some people like you'all think you know.

To Atari's credit she just reponds to things people say "as though" they were true. I dont really think even she actually believes it all. It just serves them right for saying it.

I see some egregious errors even in fttc posting sometimes. But what the heck. It's complicated nobody is going to get it all exactly right.

onthestreet said...

Anonymous said...
Uncle Rulon was supposed to be renewed and his young wives would have babies. They even started making maternity dresses.
7/18/2005 10:43 AM

Ahh, yes. Faith in Action! And what greater renewal than resurrecton? You can't beat it. Yes, he is renewed, and his young wives will have babies. It just won't happen according to your perverted minds.

onthestreet said...

Anonymous said...
Then why did Warren marry them all if they were supposed to be rejoined with Uncle Rulon?
7/18/2005 11:41 AM

It is throughout the Biblical history. It is the duty of the closest next of kin to take the wives on the passing of a dear brother, and care for them.
In the book of John we read:

"Now there stood by the cross of Jesus His mother, and His mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to his mother, "Woman, behold your son!" Then He said to the disciple, "Behold your mother!" And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home." ( John 19:25-27, NKJV throughout unless otherwise noted.)

The Amplified Bible quotes verse 26 of John 19 as follows:

"So Jesus, seeing His mother and the disciple whom He loved standing near, said to His mother, [Dear] woman, see, [here is] your son! "

Since Jesus was the oldest son, it was His responsibility to always see that His mother was cared for. This was Jewish custom and also part of honoring one's parents in accordance with the commandment.

Warren was the oldest worthy son, and was directed to honor his father and his mother, his fathers and his mothers.

Anonymous said...

No, it just happens according to Warren's perverted desires.

ATAR_i said...

I just want to say, if you want me to read your words - you have to

1. condense

or

2. at least put in paragraphs

And, lastly, I can believe in miracles and prophecy.

I just don't believe your "prophets" are the real McCoy. You want them to be raised from the dead and lead their own funerals so bad - you put them on as the officiator of their own funeral. But, the funeral was well documented, and not one soul has ever said they saw Rulon. And of course - all of his wives are married to other men now - so your right - the FLDS don't even believe it.

And - according to MOST FLDS, there have been many prophecies of the world ending - and each time, the timeline had to be set back because it didn't end.

One of the arguments FOR young girls getting married was because it was THEIR IDEA. Why were they so anxious, per FLDS people - in defense that they weren't forcing the girls (because the girls knew the world was ending and they only could get into heaven if they were married to a man with at least three wives).

Soooooooooooo, that's about it.

I ALSO believe in false prophets.

onthestreet said...

THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM.

Anonymous said...

Does anybody else find it suspicious that Rulon had the same hairdo as Elvis?

Has anybody, anywhere actually seen Rulon and Elvis AT THE SAME TIME?


Well, there ya go.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, I should of been more clear, I was referring to the compound in Hildale...

**original message**

Okay, the topic of this thread is "People and Places" I'd like to find out about a place. Has anyone ever been inside the Jeffs compound? What is it like? Where is it? How big, what color, etc.
I know it has a gate, but if he asked you to see him, how did you get in? Is that where you go for marriage assignments?
Please paint a picture for those of us who can't see it. I couldn't find a photo online...

ATAR_i said...

Well - if you WANT me to READ what you write - it's YOUR problem.

Anonymous said...

hey street in reply to your post
of 7/15 at 11:12
your problems is that you haven't come to realize yet that the FLDS or any of its off shots or the men who started the whole fundy movement never had the keys to lose they were just a bunch of horny old men who could not accept the lords command to stop living polygamy so went off and started their own thing when they did that they lost any priesthood keys they may have had and have never had any since

Quitman

Anonymous said...

Quitman; You only display your abject ignorance about the men who started "the whole fundy movement". If I had to guess I'd guess that you think you have some grand secret calling. What a mess.

Anonymous said...

Actually the only grand secret calling I think I have is to live my life honestly and by the dictates of my own conscience, and to teach my children correct principals. not like I was taught by all the liars and deceivers in CC where I was raised and lied to about the rest of the world tell the age of 17. I know what I do about those that started the whole fundy movement from research I did after leaving because I could not stomach the lies anymore. If the fundys weren't so afraid of their history maybe they would teach it to there children. No wait then maybe they could make an intelligent decision about their life and if they wanted to be evolved in such a mess

Quitman

fttc said...

quitman

I beg to differ with you here. I have been taught the complete history of where we started. My parents taught it to me. I am teaching it to my children.

I had complete freedom in my choice to remain faithful to my beleifs. My father even offered to help me if I wanted to do something different when I was old enough to make my own mind up. I will do the same with my children.

I won't say everyones experience in the fundamentalist movement are as mine. I am sorry yours was not. I will not change your mind about my being deceived, you will not change how I believe either. I do have to wonder why you feel compelled to attack though? Wanna help me out?

Anonymous said...

You are very lucky then and, if what you say is true Your father is a good man. The opposite was the case in my home and all interaction with the church. We were not taught our history and were taught that the whole world except those in CC were corrupt and automatically dammed to hell. And all of my siblings who tried to leave were hunted down and dragged back against their will till they reached 18 years of age, then they were let go but the rest of us were taught how evil and lost they were for leaving.

Quietman

onthestreet said...

Was it true (lost and evil for leaving)? Partly true?

Anonymous said...

Quietman, My heart goes out to you--you seem to have had a very hard life. Are your parents still in CC? And do they still have the same veiw about those who leave? Do you have any contact with your family?

fttc said...

I had siblings that left home before they were 18 and my father let the law bring them back to him. We are responsible for our children legally until they are 18. It was obviuos to all of us that they were rebellious. They broke the rules when they could get away with it and sometimes when they knew they couldn't. I don't remember being taught they were damned.

We were brought up under quite strict rules and he expected that we all abide the rules as long as we were under his roof. I have more respect for him for this though not less.

Not all the rules were pleasant to a teenager trying to find thier independence, but we all knew what they were. Of course we were taught that what people out in the world were doing was evil which makes the partakers in it evil too, if that is what you mean. But when I look at people in the world and even in the church I see many that have children out of wedlock, teen pregnancies, people's children on drugs etc. These are the fruits of evil works and in that sense we were taught correctly. My parents never taught that everyone was wicked outside our group.

I also see many in the church (and not in the church) who I think are doing the best they can with what they know. I have many friends in the church who are honest, upright people. Not all are bad. It is the same way with the fundamentalists.

I don't believe the church has the keys any more than you say you believe our group has them. Time will show who is right. We don't need to hate each other over it though. If you know the LDS scriptures we both believe Joseph Smith will come and set it all in order one day.

I know the exclusionary doctrine has been taught among our people. Warren's organizing the FLDS 'church' was a result of it. "We are the only righteous". I have not believed this. It was one of the reasons I could not stay with him. It just isn't scriptural. I don't believe you can find this in the teachings of our Apostles (I mean fundamentalists)prior to 20 years ago. It was made up by men that were jealous of the LDS church.

But, by the way, maybe you are not aware of it but the church is teaching basically the same doctrine. Just different people.

I remember being sad when some of my siblings decided they did not want to stay with our group. Why wouldn't I? I had found out the truth for myself and it hurt me to see them turn against what they had been taught all their life. I don't think it matters much which church you are a member of. This is going to be what you face to some degree. Anyone who beleives they are right will feel betrayed by those who were members but now call it false.

Don't take offense at my remarks, there is none intended. We won't change each other's minds. We can get along if we want to. This is what hurts so bad about those still following warren. They have no desire or will to get along. It is 'you are with us all the way, or you are the enemy'. You well know the feeling I am sure.

Anonymous said...

Mother is deceased Father still lives in CC. At least he did the last time I talked to him by phone
Earlier this year. Yes they still have the same view as far as I can tell
After Uncle Roy died But before Warren begin to take
Control there was a noticeable sifting and accepting of
Me and my family by those in the family that are still in CC
But after Warren an extremely cold shoulder Last Time
We went to visit Dad would not let me in the house but did
Spend some Time visiting in the yard. Same thing at my brothers house
He came out on the porch and talked for a minuet but did not.
Invite me in. Talked to one of my brothers (who is out) after this experience
and he said he experienced the same last time he visited dad came out but he was not
invited in and most talk was about how warren was the one and only true prophet

Quietman

Anonymous said...

to Fttc 7/19/2005 1:20 AM

I don’t take offence at your remarks
I agree that you will see people in any church
Who will treat people badly when they leave / lose faith
But they are wrong to do so. Every one deserves to be treated with respect
Weather they agree with your beliefs or not.
I see this in the LDS church also where people treat those who
Have lost their membership badly, but I believe this is just
A human failure that they would over come if they truly
Followed their religion. Something about "We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty
God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege,
let them worship how, where, or what they may"
If all followed this there would be no shunning
Or name calling

Quietman

Anonymous said...

To
onthestreet said...
Was it true (lost and evil for leaving)? Partly true?

NO it is not true that anyone is lost and evil for
Leaving. Or that all not born and raised FLDS are
Lost and evil
What I did find to be true that there are good and evil
In all groups. Yes street all groups
Even the Warranties Starting with Warren himself
I consider his actions of late to be Some
Of the most Evil on record

Quietman

fttc said...

I post probably too frequently here and get some responses that make my head spin. I have to say it has been a pleasant dialogue with you. Thanks for your input and I hope all goes well for you. For both of us I hope the insanity will stop among our families in CC.

Paladin for Truth said...

Fttc 7/19/2005 1:20 AM:

Could not have said it beter myself.

I have searched too, "we are the only righteous" seems to have come from the Jeffs administration. The good thing is, all those that want to be kind and decent to all those they come across, can. The more that do this, the sooner the healing can begin.

Anonymous said...

actually,PFT,
that idea came from Joseph Smith. He was asked if all were damned except the LDS, and he said "Yes, and a good many of those too, if they don't repent."

Anonymous said...

....and another very interesting thing: In reading the documents I bought from some of you of WSJ's teachings, I have researched everything that I had not heard in the mainstream LDS teachings, and I have found reference to every single thing (that WSJ was teaching) in the earlier teachings of the Church: Brigham Young and John Taylor are very adamant on the subject of losing your priesthood, and holding on to your families.

fttc said...

Joseph also said everyone has a chance at repentance until the day they die.

I know warren is using some truth in what he is teaching. He takes a little here and a little there. That is why he has been so successful in deluding our people. You can find references to what he is teaching in early works. But he has perverted the intent and application of these principles. Perhaps you are inferring that our early leaders advocated the mayhem and destruction that follows in warren's wake. I don't believe it.

Paladin for Truth said...

Joseph did call on all those to repent who will, but he left their families intact.

Anonymous said...

on the subject of losing your priesthood, and holding on to your families-----

With God as the judge in the final judgement, but not some pervert in this life with a double standard and an authority complex making "adjustments" in a fit of drunken anger to everlasting covenants made by people who are more righteous.

onthestreet said...

Paladin for Truth said...
Joseph did call on all those to repent who will, but he left their families intact. 7/19/2005 12:58PM

BULL. He cut off hundreds. Just look at the record. You obvious haven't even had enough interest to review the record, so you just resort to blowing smoke up everyone's donkey.

onthestreet said...

7/19/2005 2:36 PM

RIGHT! Well put! Just as you said, they "lost their priesthood" and God is the judge, and he has judged.

Of course, if God uses a storm, a war, an earthquake, a depression, a fire, a prophet, a rascal, or anything else to carry out his judgement, you're not about to dictate to God what medium he must use, right?

Well put.

Paladin for Truth said...

Lets look at the system Joseph set up to try the members for membership. First, sections 42 and 102 of the Doctrine and Covenants:

42:80 And if any man or woman shall commit adultery, he or she shall be tried before two elders of the church, or more, and every word shall be established against him or her by two witnesses of the church, and not of the enemy; but if there are more than two witnesses it is better.

81 But he or she shall be condemned by the mouth of two witnesses; and the elders shall lay the case before the church, and the church shall lift up their hands against him or her, that they may be dealt with according to the law of God.

102:18 In all cases the accuser and the accused shall have a privilege of speaking for themselves before the council, after the evidences are heard and the councilors who are appointed to speak on the case have finished their remarks.

19 After the evidences are heard, the councilors, accuser and accused have spoken, the president shall give a decision according to the understanding which he shall have of the case, and call upon the twelve councilors to sanction the same by their vote.

20 But should the remaining councilors, who have not spoken, or any one of them, after hearing the evidences and pleadings impartially, discover an error in the decision of the president, they can manifest it, and the case shall have a re-hearing.

Saturday, July 11, 1840.--The High Council met at my office, when I taught them principles relating to their duty as a Council, and that they might be guided by the same in future, I ordered it to be recorded as follows: "That the Council should try no case without both parties being present, or having had an opportunity to be present; neither should they hear one person's complaint before his case is brought up for trial; neither should they suffer the character of any one to be exposed before the High Council without the person being present and ready to defend him or herself; that the minds of the councilors be not prejudiced for or against any one whose case they may possibly have to act upon." (July 11, 1840.) DHC 4:154.

I think OTS is getting Warren and Brother Joseph mixed up. Joseph's system for sending members away seems to be vary fair. Warren's system seems more like that of Hitler. Who of all the men that Warren has slaughtered and sent away, has had a change to tell their side of things. I have heard of no trials for anyone that has been chopped off. The supposed 12 High Priests that Warren called sit idle and are not allowed to hear any case.
I would like to know of those whom Joseph cut off personally on his own voice without using the system revealed to him by God. Tell us where to read of a marriage that Joseph broke apart without hearing both sides. Somewhere according to OTS this record exists.

Faithful Woman said...

In responce to street's question.

Who's right is it to rule?

It is only God's right to rule.
And I will never again allow any man or set of men to tell me what God wants me to do.

Paladin for Truth said...

Oh where, Oh where is OTS. I enjoy reading history and apparently OTS had read some books on Joseph Smith, that I have not. I am very interested to read this supposed book of Joseph's one-sided destruction of families. I am waiting to see wherein Joseph would listen to a wife and not talk to her husband before acting. Can't have any books about Joseph missing from my library.

Anonymous said...

did all of Warren's family move from CC or are some of his wives still there? I'm wondering about Nicole, Lana and Kathleen Blackmore. Are they well, are they in CC or Texas? Does anyone know? They are my sisters and I miss them very much.

Anonymous said...

To anonymous 12:24am: How are Nicole, Lana and Kathleen Blackmore related to Brandon and Gail Blackmore? I am a friend of Gail's father.

Anonymous said...

to 10:23 pm Gail's Father's friend. Brandon Blackmore is the girls uncle.Their Father's brother.

Anonymous said...

to anonymous 10:23 pm: thanks. are any of Brandon and Gail's daughters married to Warren? I heard 2 were. If so, what are their names?

Anonymous said...

Anna Mae and Millie.

Anonymous said...

We need a new people and places blog.

Anonymous said...

Millie being 14 or may have just turned 15 this year.