FLDS Prophet Warren Jeffs may be serving life in prison, but his followers continue with their work on the YFZ Ranch near Eldorado, Texas where the group's white limestone Temple towers over the town they are building. Polygamy, the practice of plural marriage, appears to be alive and well in the Lone Star State, despite laws to the contrary.
Friday, July 15, 2005
ADVISE
A sixteen year old girl was asking for advise; she wanted to get married. I think that girls should be encouraged to get an education and enjoy their teenage years. What is your advise?
The first reason to postpone marriage is to wait until your body is mature. I have mentioned this before, and will do so again.
While your body is still growing and maturing, sensitive cells sit on the outside of the cervix (called columnar epithelium) these cells migrate to the inside of the cervix through the late teen years, until they are totally inside the cervix protected.
The reason to protect these cells is that they are highly suseptible to infection and mutatiion. Girls who have earlier sexual contact are more at risk for cervical Cancer later on in life.
Secondly, an eduction is something that you not only give to yourself, but to your husband and your children. Basic education should proceed through grade 12, and specialized education beyond that, is highly desirable, especially in a community where it is slightly unique.
If she wants to get married, and have children she might consider getting a two year degree in early childhood education or nursing. Either of those degrees would really help her to be a good mother and provider. She doesn't need to work in a clinical or educational setting to use those skills - AND if she wanted to later on in life - that option IS available.
I think Atar has given some very wise advice. If we are not educated on how to raise a family we should not be doing it. And very good medical reasoning also. I think some open and candid discussion with our children on this topic would be very helpful.
Speaking of marriage advise, have any of you read "The Little Known Discourse?" Who wrote it? Anyone know where I can get a copy of it...can't find it online.
quote: "...the wife is pronounced the husband's property as much so as his manservant, his maidservant, his ox, his horse..."
My advice to you would be to just enjoy being a kid for a while! Your childhood will be gone soon enough!
Why do people want to hurry through certain stages of life? God meant for us to enjoy them! There are certain things that we need to learn in each stage, and if you hurry through it, you will most likely miss the growth that you need, and you will have to learn it later, when it is harder and sometimes more painful to learn!
If you only knew how great you have it right now! Life is what you choose it to be! Choose to enjoy it right now! I really recommend a book called "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle. It will help you learn to enjoy each moment that you live, and not just exist, waiting to live at some other time. Read it! I promise it will change how much you enjoy life!
Sweety, just take your time and have fun with your life! Dont rush through it! Atari had a great point! Trust me, if you let your body mature before you have babies, it will be sooooo much easier! The LONG LONG first labor of younger girls SUCKS!!!!
Besides that, you dont want to get some poor guy into trouble by marrying him, and then sending him off to jail, do you? What is the worst thing that can happen if you wait just 2 years? Think about it!
cute OTS. The odds are that you might be 50% right. Maybe. Just like everything else you say. Depending of course on whether or not it is true, which you of course haven't the slightest idea.
So,a,streetie; Divorce,or a profit re-re-re-placement.There really is no difference.Either one has horrible impact on children.You forgot to end your post with "Nothing of value here".
I would like to say, in all fairness, now that my nightmare is over: Thank you to all the ones who did help me. Thank you to the wonderful women in the canyon. Thank you to the one with the little girls who wrote notes of encouragement to me. Thank you to the ones in fredonia who truly did have kindness in there heart. Thank you to the Texans who have a mission, that cares. Thank you to the people in my city who prayed and smiled at me. Thank you to the ones in canebeds and Moccisin who extended there charity. Thank you for the police who cared. Thank you all. You know who you are. Thank you to the ones in california, the ones who cared. Thank you, Texas policeman, who treated me like a lady. Thank you the one who took me to the park. Thank you to the ones who walked with me. Thank you to the one on the desert who gave me a ride. Thank you to the ones who fed me breakfast that day. Thank you to the one who gave me the money. Thank you to the one who encouraged me. And the countless others who helped me, why I was on the street. I could name your names but you know you, whoever you are. AND THANK YOU MOST, MY PROPHET. WHO GIVES ME THE GREATEST GIFT A PERSON CAN HAVE. UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. I return it unconditionaly back to you.
Dowry? Little Known Discourse? I've been around LDS and FLDS Literature for over 50 years and never seen either of these as doctrine. Maybe you need to go find a Jewish Forum or something.
The Primer has nothing to do in any way what-so-ever to do with FLDS: If it did we would have printed it. The District attorneys know nothing about our religion. If you want to know what FLDS beleive in, Read the book of Morman, and the Bible. Read the Journal of Discorses. I think the state of Utah and Arizonia are trying to prime there own adjenda.
I would suggest you save yourself if such a thing is possible. You can only save one soul. Between the streets of earth and hell, it is only your deeds that condemn or save you.
And between your great reading dialog, you did not speak about a book called, "A little known discorse" In all your readings and expertese have you heard of this book?
In the first place we have never heard of "The little known discourse" You would have to be more specific as to what this is in reference too. I started reading the Utah Morman polygamy primer. This is the first time it has been in print. They just made this book up. I looked at it part way. I could see that it was as full of filth and lies as the media. I then did not read the rest. I think that the primer was made to make The District attorney and the people that hate our church look big and justified in persicuting people. I think the first page was ok. It said treat these people with respect. I think that they should not discriminate with all other people. I think the first page of this primer is ok. The rest is built upon false-hoods. Well, I will not call them out right liers. I have just never heard a thing about the stuff in that primer. At least in the first half of it. I was extremly discused with the first half, and did not read the rest. I do not need my mind contaminated with filth. I believe in the Book of Morman. I believe in the Bible. I can not speak for every one else.
That's funny that you say it's all falsehoods. I haven't read it - I think I might have taken a cursory look. But I do recall most people saying that - about everything they do down in CC.
I've seen these interviews where they ask the men if they are married to teenagers - and they basically tell the media - you are *so disgusting* to ASK (that's gross, it's just a lie - we would never do that sort of thing).
Take what isn't ours from the school district - bleed it dry - WE would never do that (by the way, where's the school district plane?) Oh The plane is gone - warren has it - that's not... um....against any school regulations is it? YEA DARN RIGHT IT IS!
We would never cast our young children out - but we do.
We would never make our girls marry an old man - but we do.
You guys act like everything everyone says is false, and pretend that none of these things ever happened - as if we would believe that.
So if you say the primer is false - I'm going to guess it is SPOT ON!
I live in a neighborhood, just regular folks. We've had a few kids run away, and probably a few asked to leave. And, by a few I really mean something you probably couldn't count on one hand.
We've also probably had girls have sex in high school, with other high school kids. BUT there was a boy 18, who was in high school, had sex with a girl, who was in high school, and she was 15 - guess what - he got strung up by his cajones and thrown in jail - so phhhtttt to religious persecution. Had her and her parents not said anything no one would have known.
BUT if that girl makes someone aware law enforcement MUST ENFORCE. So stop whining.
That which you SEW you shall REAP - sorry your not enjoying this harvest - but you planted these seeds!
Oh, righty now.... The original entry for this blog is about should a 16 yr old marry. IMNSHO, or In my not so humble opinion, I believe that in today's times, or today's society being older than 16 is an advantage. I personally didn't seek marriage until 22, after my mission to a woman who was only 6 months younger. And, not that its anyones business we've been married 27 years. So, not that I am an "authority" but I'd advise waiting until your older before seeking a marriage partner.
If the original book of mormon and subsequent commentaries, doctrines, covenants, fairy tales etc. are lies, why should you expect truth to suddenly come from additional revelations? Like grandma said "tell a lie and you have to continually tell another to prop the first one up." WJ is a fugitive from justice. His supporters or either demented or have been so frightened by his threats that they continue in their ignorance by choice, or as testified to, by show of force.
When I read the Primer I thought the officials had been very fair with the FLDS. It does look like they couldn't get much info on them. Had they had some cooperation with insiders they could have been more accurate. What they did put in for the most part I thought would do just what they intended. It would give someone not familiar with the lifestyle and culture a heads up on it.
The primer was not written specifically for the FLDS, but for all polygamist groups which law enforcement must come in contact. In our people's self-centered way it sounds like those commenting have read it like we are the only polygamists and everything in it applies to us.
Well, I say when the government makes up a special primer for one group, or a few groups they have crossed the line. I think they should not discriminate. I think they should treat all people with fairness. I think when it comes to law, they should treat all people equal. I also think that what age a person gets married is there business.
Agreed, whole heartedly excepting age. A girl should be 18 years old or older. Preferably 20 or older... Just my opinion...Thanks for letting me share.
Really, OTS, in my humble opinion, you are one of the most biased people I have ever crossed paths with. Even though it's only on this blog. God bless us all.
If you check into the old beliefs and such in the bible you will see that the tradition back then was to record peoples ages after they turned 12. 12 years old by the record keepers would really be 24. This has caused some confusion as the bible has been translated into english and they did not understand that was how they kept ages in that day. OTS, try reading the bible in Hebrew, you are single, on the street, and should have plenty of time. Learning to read Hebrew should keep you busy for a few months and off of the blogs. You may gain a new light on the bible as well.
If you check into the old beliefs and such in the bible you will see that the tradition back then was to record peoples ages after they turned 12. 12 years old by the record keepers would really be 24. This has caused some confusion as the bible has been translated into english and they did not understand that was how they kept ages in that day. OTS, try reading the bible in Hebrew, you are single, on the street, and should have plenty of time. Learning to read Hebrew should keep you busy for a few months and off of the blogs. You may gain a new light on the bible as well.
oops.. sorry posted this on the wrong thread so oh well, I'll just put it here too.
You just have to do a mental Street delete. He can be hard to ignore sometimes but don't let anything he says influence your opinion. If I were the blog admin, I would actually delete his posts unless they were coherent...see if he was smart enough to figure out how a conversation actually works.
What happened to the post that was ragging on Arar? I was here an hour ago and it was there. now it is gone without the usual 'this post deleted' message.
Okay, trying to get this somewhat back on track...
I assume that FLDS women are under tremendous pressure with all of those children and how strict the religion is. I'm wondering, if someone looked into it, would they find higher rates of anorexia, depression, bullemia, and cutting amoung the women of CC?
DEPRESSION. Every facet of life is controled. From what to wear, who you can see, where you can go. The religion was as broad and wide as any could be until ten years ago. It has now contracted down to a teaspoon. Either you are in or out. If you watch movies, you're out. If you wear long dresses, long sleeves, long underwear, even if you screw around at night, You're IN. It is all how it looks on the surface and not on the inside.
I know a woman, that is a first wife, has raised her dozen kids and now has a second wife, with some young kids. Some of her kids have "left" and some are still "in". So the ones that are out, try to call and talk and do things with her (Because they love her and she is their mom). The kids that are "in" tell on her and turn her in for talking to her apostate children. All of her friends have now been "removed". Taken away from their husbands, assigned to different ones and have moved. She has one "outside" friend that she sneaks to see. But now her children are told, we can't play with you because your mom talks to outside people, "apostate" children. So she is DEPRESSED. And tried to drink her problems away. Then her husband comes home, tells her she should'nt talk to her children, grand-children, and takes away her priviledges to the car, and won't give her money. So now she is trapped! And does not have any money to buy alcohol..and if she faces her problems, she will leave. Even though, she says she loves her husband, and the "family" think that they are helping her do what is right..they are really pushing her away.
If we could look at the pharmacy, you would find hundreds of women are on Zoloft. This is the new "Keep Sweet" pill. If you get depressed, because you know that you can never make the grade, Then you go tell the doctor that you are depressed, and he helps by giving you a prescription. If you ever look up what the pills do, it takes away some of the logic and even though you can tell you are wearing one red shoe and one white, you don't care.
i dont think theres anything wrong with young girls getting married..its good to let young couples grow up together..and its not like you have to have a baby right after you get married anyway...
46 comments:
The first reason to postpone marriage is to wait until your body is mature. I have mentioned this before, and will do so again.
While your body is still growing and maturing, sensitive cells sit on the outside of the cervix (called columnar epithelium) these cells migrate to the inside of the cervix through the late teen years, until they are totally inside the cervix protected.
The reason to protect these cells is that they are highly suseptible to infection and mutatiion. Girls who have earlier sexual contact are more at risk for cervical Cancer later on in life.
Secondly, an eduction is something that you not only give to yourself, but to your husband and your children. Basic education should proceed through grade 12, and specialized education beyond that, is highly desirable, especially in a community where it is slightly unique.
If she wants to get married, and have children she might consider getting a two year degree in early childhood education or nursing. Either of those degrees would really help her to be a good mother and provider. She doesn't need to work in a clinical or educational setting to use those skills - AND if she wanted to later on in life - that option IS available.
I think Atar has given some very wise advice. If we are not educated on how to raise a family we should not be doing it. And very good medical reasoning also. I think some open and candid discussion with our children on this topic would be very helpful.
Speaking of marriage advise, have any of you read "The Little Known Discourse?" Who wrote it? Anyone know where I can get a copy of it...can't find it online.
quote: "...the wife is pronounced the husband's property as much so as his manservant, his maidservant, his ox, his horse..."
That's the formula for a great marriage :)
Thanks
Hey Sweet Sixteen!
My advice to you would be to just enjoy being a kid for a while! Your childhood will be gone soon enough!
Why do people want to hurry through certain stages of life? God meant for us to enjoy them! There are certain things that we need to learn in each stage, and if you hurry through it, you will most likely miss the growth that you need, and you will have to learn it later, when it is harder and sometimes more painful to learn!
If you only knew how great you have it right now! Life is what you choose it to be! Choose to enjoy it right now! I really recommend a book called "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle. It will help you learn to enjoy each moment that you live, and not just exist, waiting to live at some other time. Read it! I promise it will change how much you enjoy life!
Sweety, just take your time and have fun with your life! Dont rush through it! Atari had a great point! Trust me, if you let your body mature before you have babies, it will be sooooo much easier! The LONG LONG first labor of younger girls SUCKS!!!!
Besides that, you dont want to get some poor guy into trouble by marrying him, and then sending him off to jail, do you? What is the worst thing that can happen if you wait just 2 years? Think about it!
New Kid on the Blog
puke
cute OTS. The odds are that you might be 50% right. Maybe. Just like everything else you say. Depending of course on whether or not it is true, which you of course haven't the slightest idea.
Atar <---- Virgin til wedding, One marriage, no divorce.
I guess I'm qualified.
How many wives have YOU lost OTS?
So,a,streetie;
Divorce,or a profit re-re-re-placement.There really is no difference.Either one has horrible impact on children.You forgot to end your post with "Nothing of value here".
Street,
Do people in the FLDS still consider the Little Known Discourse to be advisable, even since it's been disproven to be JS teachings?
It's Phising!
http://www.fincen.gov/
I would like to say, in all fairness, now that my nightmare is over: Thank you to all the ones who did help me. Thank you to the wonderful women in the canyon. Thank you to the one with the little girls who wrote notes of encouragement to me. Thank you to the ones in fredonia who truly did have kindness in there heart. Thank you to the Texans who have a mission, that cares. Thank you to the people in my city who prayed and smiled at me. Thank you to the ones in canebeds and Moccisin who extended there charity. Thank you for the police who cared. Thank you all. You know who you are. Thank you to the ones in california, the ones who cared.
Thank you, Texas policeman, who treated me like a lady. Thank you the one who took me to the park. Thank you to the ones who walked with me. Thank you to the one on the desert who gave me a ride. Thank you to the ones who fed me breakfast that day. Thank you to the one who gave me the money. Thank you to the one who encouraged me. And the countless others who helped me, why I was on the street.
I could name your names but you know you, whoever you are. AND THANK YOU MOST, MY PROPHET. WHO GIVES ME THE GREATEST GIFT A PERSON CAN HAVE. UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. I return it unconditionaly back to you.
Dowry? Little Known Discourse? I've been around LDS and FLDS Literature for over 50 years and never seen either of these as doctrine. Maybe you need to go find a Jewish Forum or something.
I also have been in the F.L.D.S church for fourty years and have never heard of them.
My advice?
You're a sick person.
To get married to a rich man and after a six months or so to get a divorce and a nice part if his money. I wish I were 16.
The Little Known Discourse is mentioned in the Utah AG's
"The Primer"
http://attorneygeneral.utah.gov/polygamy/The_Primer.pdf
It mentions that some plural marriage groups still believe it's teaching, are the FLDS one of them?
The Primer has nothing to do in any way what-so-ever to do with FLDS: If it did we would have printed it. The District attorneys know nothing about our religion. If you want to know what FLDS beleive in, Read the book of Morman, and the Bible. Read the Journal of Discorses. I think the state of Utah and Arizonia are trying to prime there own adjenda.
I would suggest you save yourself if such a thing is possible. You can only save one soul. Between the streets of earth and hell, it is only your deeds that condemn or save you.
And between your great reading dialog, you did not speak about a book called, "A little known discorse" In all your readings and expertese have you heard of this book?
Do the FLDS believe Joseph Smith wrote "The Little Known Discourse" and do they follow it's edicts?
In the first place we have never heard of "The little known discourse" You would have to be more specific as to what this is in reference too. I started reading the Utah Morman polygamy primer. This is the first time it has been in print. They just made this book up. I looked at it part way. I could see that it was as full of filth and lies as the media. I then did not read the rest. I think that the primer was made to make The District attorney and the people that hate our church look big and justified in persicuting people. I think the first page was ok. It said treat these people with respect. I think that they should not discriminate with all other people. I think the first page of this primer is ok. The rest is built upon false-hoods. Well, I will not call them out right liers. I have just never heard a thing about the stuff in that primer. At least in the first half of it. I was extremly discused with the first half, and did not read the rest. I do not need my mind contaminated with filth. I believe in the Book of Morman. I believe in the Bible. I can not speak for every one else.
That's funny that you say it's all falsehoods. I haven't read it - I think I might have taken a cursory look. But I do recall most people saying that - about everything they do down in CC.
I've seen these interviews where they ask the men if they are married to teenagers - and they basically tell the media - you are *so disgusting* to ASK (that's gross, it's just a lie - we would never do that sort of thing).
Take what isn't ours from the school district - bleed it dry - WE would never do that (by the way, where's the school district plane?) Oh The plane is gone - warren has it - that's not... um....against any school regulations is it? YEA DARN RIGHT IT IS!
We would never cast our young children out - but we do.
We would never make our girls marry an old man - but we do.
You guys act like everything everyone says is false, and pretend that none of these things ever happened - as if we would believe that.
So if you say the primer is false - I'm going to guess it is SPOT ON!
I live in a neighborhood, just regular folks. We've had a few kids run away, and probably a few asked to leave. And, by a few I really mean something you probably couldn't count on one hand.
We've also probably had girls have sex in high school, with other high school kids. BUT there was a boy 18, who was in high school, had sex with a girl, who was in high school, and she was 15 - guess what - he got strung up by his cajones and thrown in jail - so phhhtttt to religious persecution. Had her and her parents not said anything no one would have known.
BUT if that girl makes someone aware law enforcement MUST ENFORCE. So stop whining.
That which you SEW you shall REAP - sorry your not enjoying this harvest - but you planted these seeds!
Oh, righty now.... The original entry for this blog is about should a 16 yr old marry. IMNSHO, or In my not so humble opinion, I believe that in today's times, or today's society being older than 16 is an advantage. I personally didn't seek marriage until 22, after my mission to a woman who was only 6 months younger. And, not that its anyones business we've been married 27 years. So, not that I am an "authority" but I'd advise waiting until your older before seeking a marriage partner.
I agree I waited til after I was done with college.
If the original book of mormon and subsequent commentaries, doctrines, covenants, fairy tales etc. are lies, why should you expect truth to suddenly come from additional revelations? Like grandma said "tell a lie and you have to continually tell another to prop the first one up." WJ is a fugitive from justice. His supporters or either demented or have been so frightened by his threats that they continue in their ignorance by choice, or as testified to, by show of force.
When I read the Primer I thought the officials had been very fair with the FLDS. It does look like they couldn't get much info on them. Had they had some cooperation with insiders they could have been more accurate. What they did put in for the most part I thought would do just what they intended. It would give someone not familiar with the lifestyle and culture a heads up on it.
The primer was not written specifically for the FLDS, but for all polygamist groups which law enforcement must come in contact. In our people's self-centered way it sounds like those commenting have read it like we are the only polygamists and everything in it applies to us.
Well, I say when the government makes up a special primer for one group, or a few groups they have crossed the line. I think they should not discriminate. I think they should treat all people with fairness. I think when it comes to law, they should treat all people equal.
I also think that what age a person gets married is there business.
Agreed, whole heartedly excepting age. A girl should be 18 years old or older. Preferably 20 or older... Just my opinion...Thanks for letting me share.
Really, OTS, in my humble opinion, you are one of the most biased people I have ever crossed paths with. Even though it's only on this blog. God bless us all.
Are you all insane? My god, that this exists in the United States.....Or anywhere on the planet, for that matter. You are worse than the Taliban.
If you check into the old beliefs and such in the bible you will see that the tradition back then was to record peoples ages after they turned 12. 12 years old by the record keepers would really be 24. This has caused some confusion as the bible has been translated into english and they did not understand that was how they kept ages in that day. OTS, try reading the bible in Hebrew, you are single, on the street, and should have plenty of time. Learning to read Hebrew should keep you busy for a few months and off of the blogs. You may gain a new light on the bible as well.
If you check into the old beliefs and such in the bible you will see that the tradition back then was to record peoples ages after they turned 12. 12 years old by the record keepers would really be 24. This has caused some confusion as the bible has been translated into english and they did not understand that was how they kept ages in that day. OTS, try reading the bible in Hebrew, you are single, on the street, and should have plenty of time. Learning to read Hebrew should keep you busy for a few months and off of the blogs. You may gain a new light on the bible as well.
Amen. For what it's worth.
Oh great. Someone finally speaks out and makes sense and Street has to go and agree with him so it takes all the credibility away.
Crap!
oops.. sorry posted this on the wrong thread so oh well, I'll just put it here too.
You just have to do a mental Street delete. He can be hard to ignore sometimes but don't let anything he says influence your opinion. If I were the blog admin, I would actually delete his posts unless they were coherent...see if he was smart enough to figure out how a conversation actually works.
What happened to the post that was ragging on Arar? I was here an hour ago and it was there. now it is gone without the usual 'this post deleted' message.
sorry I meant Atar_i
Street
If your distrust of the blog Admin runs so deep why bother posting here anymore?
you sicko!!!
juts bs'in
Okay, trying to get this somewhat back on track...
I assume that FLDS women are under tremendous pressure with all of those children and how strict the religion is. I'm wondering, if someone looked into it, would they find higher rates of anorexia, depression, bullemia, and cutting amoung the women of CC?
DEPRESSION. Every facet of life is controled. From what to wear, who you can see, where you can go. The religion was as broad and wide as any could be until ten years ago. It has now contracted down to a teaspoon. Either you are in or out. If you watch movies, you're out. If you wear long dresses, long sleeves, long underwear, even if you screw around at night, You're IN. It is all how it looks on the surface and not on the inside.
I know a woman, that is a first wife, has raised her dozen kids and now has a second wife, with some young kids. Some of her kids have "left" and some are still "in". So the ones that are out, try to call and talk and do things with her (Because they love her and she is their mom). The kids that are "in" tell on her and turn her in for talking to her apostate children. All of her friends have now been "removed". Taken away from their husbands, assigned to different ones and have moved. She has one "outside" friend that she sneaks to see. But now her children are told, we can't play with you because your mom talks to outside people, "apostate" children. So she is DEPRESSED. And tried to drink her problems away. Then her husband comes home, tells her she should'nt talk to her children, grand-children, and takes away her priviledges to the car, and won't give her money. So now she is trapped! And does not have any money to buy alcohol..and if she faces her problems, she will leave. Even though, she says she loves her husband, and the "family" think that they are helping her do what is right..they are really pushing her away.
If we could look at the pharmacy, you would find hundreds of women are on Zoloft. This is the new "Keep Sweet" pill. If you get depressed, because you know that you can never make the grade, Then you go tell the doctor that you are depressed, and he helps by giving you a prescription. If you ever look up what the pills do, it takes away some of the logic and even though you can tell you are wearing one red shoe and one white, you don't care.
i dont think theres anything wrong with young girls getting married..its good to let young couples grow up together..and its not like you have to have a baby right after you get married anyway...
But you claimed once before that YOU, have never been married.?
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