Friday, July 15, 2005

ADVISE

A sixteen year old girl was asking for advise; she wanted to get married. I think that girls should be encouraged to get an education and enjoy their teenage years. What is your advise?

65 comments:

ATAR_i said...

The first reason to postpone marriage is to wait until your body is mature. I have mentioned this before, and will do so again.

While your body is still growing and maturing, sensitive cells sit on the outside of the cervix (called columnar epithelium) these cells migrate to the inside of the cervix through the late teen years, until they are totally inside the cervix protected.

The reason to protect these cells is that they are highly suseptible to infection and mutatiion. Girls who have earlier sexual contact are more at risk for cervical Cancer later on in life.

Secondly, an eduction is something that you not only give to yourself, but to your husband and your children. Basic education should proceed through grade 12, and specialized education beyond that, is highly desirable, especially in a community where it is slightly unique.

If she wants to get married, and have children she might consider getting a two year degree in early childhood education or nursing. Either of those degrees would really help her to be a good mother and provider. She doesn't need to work in a clinical or educational setting to use those skills - AND if she wanted to later on in life - that option IS available.

fttc said...

I think Atar has given some very wise advice. If we are not educated on how to raise a family we should not be doing it. And very good medical reasoning also. I think some open and candid discussion with our children on this topic would be very helpful.

Anonymous said...

Speaking of marriage advise, have any of you read "The Little Known Discourse?" Who wrote it? Anyone know where I can get a copy of it...can't find it online.

quote: "...the wife is pronounced the husband's property as much so as his manservant, his maidservant, his ox, his horse..."

That's the formula for a great marriage :)

Thanks

Anonymous said...

Hey Sweet Sixteen!

My advice to you would be to just enjoy being a kid for a while! Your childhood will be gone soon enough!

Why do people want to hurry through certain stages of life? God meant for us to enjoy them! There are certain things that we need to learn in each stage, and if you hurry through it, you will most likely miss the growth that you need, and you will have to learn it later, when it is harder and sometimes more painful to learn!


If you only knew how great you have it right now! Life is what you choose it to be! Choose to enjoy it right now! I really recommend a book called "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle. It will help you learn to enjoy each moment that you live, and not just exist, waiting to live at some other time. Read it! I promise it will change how much you enjoy life!


Sweety, just take your time and have fun with your life! Dont rush through it! Atari had a great point! Trust me, if you let your body mature before you have babies, it will be sooooo much easier! The LONG LONG first labor of younger girls SUCKS!!!!


Besides that, you dont want to get some poor guy into trouble by marrying him, and then sending him off to jail, do you? What is the worst thing that can happen if you wait just 2 years? Think about it!



New Kid on the Blog

onthestreet said...

Probably every sad soul here giving "marriage advise" has been divorced a dozen times, and still hoping they can figure it out. Even a single divorce is proof of failure in that department.

Now, if you can find someone who has married a dozen times, and ALL those marriages are still intact, there's the treasury of knowledge.

Anonymous said...

puke

onthestreet said...

There you go. You have puked out your treasury. Thus are you impoverished, and your marriage is on the rocks, or you have no marriage at all.

Anonymous said...

cute OTS. The odds are that you might be 50% right. Maybe. Just like everything else you say. Depending of course on whether or not it is true, which you of course haven't the slightest idea.

ATAR_i said...

Atar <---- Virgin til wedding, One marriage, no divorce.

I guess I'm qualified.

How many wives have YOU lost OTS?

A soul said...

So,a,streetie;
Divorce,or a profit re-re-re-placement.There really is no difference.Either one has horrible impact on children.You forgot to end your post with "Nothing of value here".

Anonymous said...

Street,

Do people in the FLDS still consider the Little Known Discourse to be advisable, even since it's been disproven to be JS teachings?

onthestreet said...

Who's fishing?

Anonymous said...

David, you are such a bastard.

You need to realize that from the abundance of the heart the mouth flowth. You are on this blog, day after day spewing your disgusting filth and bi-polar crap all over, while Kate is home trying to make the best of the distroyed life you left her and the kids.

You made her feel like a worthless piece of human waste, and now you humiliate her daily. Well, let me tell you something, buddy boy. I have never been divorced, but if I had ever married the likes of you, I sure would be. And if all men were like you, the human race would die out.

Here we are trying to help a young girl to see how she can better her life, maybe by making friends with her family, and being happy where she is, and you have to belch your perverted two bits all over us. Go take your medication, and get a life.

Anonymous said...

It's Phising!

http://www.fincen.gov/

onthestreet said...

Nonny: 7/17/2005 12:16 AM:

All men were like the devil, not like God, when the human race DID die out. But if all men were like Noah, the human race would have been saved.

onthestreet said...

As for dear Kate, my heart sings for her. But never been married. I feel for her, and a host of others.

TRES CEE said...

--A QUESTION ON THIS, IS THERE ANY RETRIBUTION FOR MISTREATMENT OF A WIFE ABUSED AS PROPERTY OF SUCH AN HUSBAND, SO THAT THE DOWRY IS RETURNED AND WITH OR WITHOUT WIFE, RETRIBUTION IS TAKEN ON THE SO CALLED PROPERRTY OF SUCH A HEARTLESS MAN AS HOLDS SUCH A WOMAN, A PERSON LOVED BY GOD AS WELL AS THE MAN WHO HOLDS A WOMAN AS PROPERTY OR CHATTEL,

PLEASE DO ANSWER IF YOU CAN OR ARE SINCERE, IN DOING SO, IN RIGHTEOUSNESS, ,,,,,,

Anonymous said...
Speaking of marriage advise, have any of you read "The Little Known Discourse?" Who wrote it? Anyone know where I can get a copy of it...can't find it online.

quote: "...the wife is pronounced the husband's property as much so as his manservant, his maidservant, his ox, his horse..."

That's the formula for a great marriage :)

Thanks

Anonymous said...

I would like to say, in all fairness, now that my nightmare is over: Thank you to all the ones who did help me. Thank you to the wonderful women in the canyon. Thank you to the one with the little girls who wrote notes of encouragement to me. Thank you to the ones in fredonia who truly did have kindness in there heart. Thank you to the Texans who have a mission, that cares. Thank you to the people in my city who prayed and smiled at me. Thank you to the ones in canebeds and Moccisin who extended there charity. Thank you for the police who cared. Thank you all. You know who you are. Thank you to the ones in california, the ones who cared.
Thank you, Texas policeman, who treated me like a lady. Thank you the one who took me to the park. Thank you to the ones who walked with me. Thank you to the one on the desert who gave me a ride. Thank you to the ones who fed me breakfast that day. Thank you to the one who gave me the money. Thank you to the one who encouraged me. And the countless others who helped me, why I was on the street.
I could name your names but you know you, whoever you are. AND THANK YOU MOST, MY PROPHET. WHO GIVES ME THE GREATEST GIFT A PERSON CAN HAVE. UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. I return it unconditionaly back to you.

Anonymous said...

Dowry? Little Known Discourse? I've been around LDS and FLDS Literature for over 50 years and never seen either of these as doctrine. Maybe you need to go find a Jewish Forum or something.

Anonymous said...

I also have been in the F.L.D.S church for fourty years and have never heard of them.

Scott said...

My advice?
You're a sick person.

Sherilla Lay said...

To get married to a rich man and after a six months or so to get a divorce and a nice part if his money. I wish I were 16.

Anonymous said...

The Little Known Discourse is mentioned in the Utah AG's
"The Primer"

http://attorneygeneral.utah.gov/polygamy/The_Primer.pdf

It mentions that some plural marriage groups still believe it's teaching, are the FLDS one of them?

Anonymous said...

The Primer has nothing to do in any way what-so-ever to do with FLDS: If it did we would have printed it. The District attorneys know nothing about our religion. If you want to know what FLDS beleive in, Read the book of Morman, and the Bible. Read the Journal of Discorses. I think the state of Utah and Arizonia are trying to prime there own adjenda.

Paladin for Truth said...

I have read the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Parts of the Bible, The Journals of Discourses, The Times and Seasons, Documentry History of the Church, Comprehensive History of the Church, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Teachings of Brigham Young, Parts of the Millenial Star, Life of the Prophet Joseph Smith by his mother and the one by George Q. Cannon, The Life of John Taylor, The life of Heber C. Kimball. All of the Sermons of Leroy S. Johnson, some of the Sermons of Brother Holm, Some of the Sermons of Brother Musser and the other older brethren of the early roots of the Gospel, the Gospel Kingdom by John Taylor, a dozen or more books written by B. H. Roberts and many other early Mormon books. I sure as hell can't find anything that explains the FLDS in all of this. They are nothing like Joseph Smith has taught or would want to have anything to do with. Whatever Warren is teaching these days sure as hell did not come from the roots of early Mormonism or from John Taylor and the 1886 revelation. I have not checked into the sermons of Lucifer yet, as I think that Warren has the only existing copy.

Anonymous said...

I would suggest you save yourself if such a thing is possible. You can only save one soul. Between the streets of earth and hell, it is only your deeds that condemn or save you.

Anonymous said...

And between your great reading dialog, you did not speak about a book called, "A little known discorse" In all your readings and expertese have you heard of this book?

Anonymous said...

Do the FLDS believe Joseph Smith wrote "The Little Known Discourse" and do they follow it's edicts?

Anonymous said...

In the first place we have never heard of "The little known discourse" You would have to be more specific as to what this is in reference too. I started reading the Utah Morman polygamy primer. This is the first time it has been in print. They just made this book up. I looked at it part way. I could see that it was as full of filth and lies as the media. I then did not read the rest. I think that the primer was made to make The District attorney and the people that hate our church look big and justified in persicuting people. I think the first page was ok. It said treat these people with respect. I think that they should not discriminate with all other people. I think the first page of this primer is ok. The rest is built upon false-hoods. Well, I will not call them out right liers. I have just never heard a thing about the stuff in that primer. At least in the first half of it. I was extremly discused with the first half, and did not read the rest. I do not need my mind contaminated with filth. I believe in the Book of Morman. I believe in the Bible. I can not speak for every one else.

onthestreet said...

Well put.

ATAR_i said...

That's funny that you say it's all falsehoods. I haven't read it - I think I might have taken a cursory look. But I do recall most people saying that - about everything they do down in CC.

I've seen these interviews where they ask the men if they are married to teenagers - and they basically tell the media - you are *so disgusting* to ASK (that's gross, it's just a lie - we would never do that sort of thing).

Take what isn't ours from the school district - bleed it dry - WE would never do that (by the way, where's the school district plane?) Oh The plane is gone - warren has it - that's not... um....against any school regulations is it? YEA DARN RIGHT IT IS!

We would never cast our young children out - but we do.

We would never make our girls marry an old man - but we do.

You guys act like everything everyone says is false, and pretend that none of these things ever happened - as if we would believe that.

So if you say the primer is false - I'm going to guess it is SPOT ON!

I live in a neighborhood, just regular folks. We've had a few kids run away, and probably a few asked to leave. And, by a few I really mean something you probably couldn't count on one hand.

We've also probably had girls have sex in high school, with other high school kids. BUT there was a boy 18, who was in high school, had sex with a girl, who was in high school, and she was 15 - guess what - he got strung up by his cajones and thrown in jail - so phhhtttt to religious persecution. Had her and her parents not said anything no one would have known.

BUT if that girl makes someone aware law enforcement MUST ENFORCE. So stop whining.

That which you SEW you shall REAP - sorry your not enjoying this harvest - but you planted these seeds!

NE Texas Seeker of Truth said...

Oh, righty now.... The original entry for this blog is about should a 16 yr old marry. IMNSHO, or In my not so humble opinion, I believe that in today's times, or today's society being older than 16 is an advantage. I personally didn't seek marriage until 22, after my mission to a woman who was only 6 months younger. And, not that its anyones business we've been married 27 years. So, not that I am an "authority" but I'd advise waiting until your older before seeking a marriage partner.

ATAR_i said...

I agree I waited til after I was done with college.

Anonymous said...

If the original book of mormon and subsequent commentaries, doctrines, covenants, fairy tales etc. are lies, why should you expect truth to suddenly come from additional revelations? Like grandma said "tell a lie and you have to continually tell another to prop the first one up." WJ is a fugitive from justice. His supporters or either demented or have been so frightened by his threats that they continue in their ignorance by choice, or as testified to, by show of force.

fttc said...

When I read the Primer I thought the officials had been very fair with the FLDS. It does look like they couldn't get much info on them. Had they had some cooperation with insiders they could have been more accurate. What they did put in for the most part I thought would do just what they intended. It would give someone not familiar with the lifestyle and culture a heads up on it.

The primer was not written specifically for the FLDS, but for all polygamist groups which law enforcement must come in contact. In our people's self-centered way it sounds like those commenting have read it like we are the only polygamists and everything in it applies to us.

Anonymous said...

Well, I say when the government makes up a special primer for one group, or a few groups they have crossed the line. I think they should not discriminate. I think they should treat all people with fairness. I think when it comes to law, they should treat all people equal.
I also think that what age a person gets married is there business.

Anonymous said...

Agreed, whole heartedly excepting age. A girl should be 18 years old or older. Preferably 20 or older... Just my opinion...Thanks for letting me share.

Paladin for Truth said...

"The Little Known Discourse" by Joseph Smith is real and I have read it. I don't believe myself that it was from Joseph, just an attempt to put words in the mouth of the Prophet, same thing Warren likes to do. There was a lot of old stuff that was popular with the different fundamentalists 50 years ago or so. If you talk to the people at BYUStudies, they believe that "The Little Known Discourse" was actually compiled by a Mr. Jacobs, I forget the first name, Jacobs claims that it was given by Joseph Smith. This came to light in the late 60's if I remember right. President Johnson always used to say the the Book of Mormon contains all that we need to get back into the presence of our Father in Heaven. The AG office could just quote the Book of Mormon as a primer and it would still put Warren at fault and anger the FLDS followers.

onthestreet said...

In chemistry, if you prime all chemicals the same, all you end up with is an EXPLOSION. Humans are chemistry.

Now, if a girl SHOULD be 18 before marrying, then the Virgin Mary and the host of Biblical women whom we follow as our matriarchal ideals, and who followed the Bat Mitzvah age of 12 years old, you mock them with God, and dictate to God what He SHOULD do. You all assume to dictate to God himself, even in your gross crimes and perversions. It seems that all that's left for him to do is to blast you with his nostrils.

By the way, when you look at it with a pure heart, and without scewed eyes, we find that the Prophet Warren has not violated one constitutional law of God or man. But then, it is impossible for a society of perverts and criminals to view anything with a pure heart and without eyes scewed. Just impossible. They are antithesis.

Anonymous said...

Really, OTS, in my humble opinion, you are one of the most biased people I have ever crossed paths with. Even though it's only on this blog. God bless us all.

onthestreet said...

Calling on his blessings, under the circumstances, will only bring his retort: "Get ye hense. I never knew you."

ATAR_i said...

Yeah, I'm loving how people are talking about discrimination (I have the sermon on the 'negro race' and how they are here (per FLDS prophet) so that the devil might have a representation on earth). Someone wanna grab a crane and pluck the timber outa that posters eye.

Now, we've been over the virgin Mary before street - that was some 2000 years ago AND no one knows how old she was - don't give all your bogus sources again - we've been there - done that.

Anonymous said...

Are you all insane? My god, that this exists in the United States.....Or anywhere on the planet, for that matter. You are worse than the Taliban.

ATAR_i said...

Are you talking about the FLDS teaching regarding the negro race? It's not my belief - but hearing it and letting my family listen to the tapes was sincerely one of the weirdest experiences EVER.

If you want to hear some clips - go here.

http://eldoradosuccess.com/YFZ%20Pages/YFZ040305.html

"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth or rude and filthy, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind."

Listen to warren make the quote above

"So I give this lesson on the black race that you can understand its full effect as far as we are able to comprehend. And that we must beware, if we are for the prophet, for priesthood, we will come out of the world an leave off their dress, their music, their styles, their fashions, the way they think - what they do, because you can trace back and see a connection with immoral filthy people."

Listen to warren making the quote above

In another clip Jeffs explains that the Negro race which he calls the "seed of Cain" survived the flood of Noah because Noah's son Ham was married to "a wife of that seed" which he identified as being black. He claimed it was necessary for the black race to be preserved "because it was necessary that the Devil should have a representation upon the Earth as well as God." He continues by saying, "So, the day of the Negro is continued and today is the day of the Negro, as far as the world is concerned."

Listen to warren making the quote above

Jeffs goes on to say that anyone who "mingles their seed with the seed of Cain, the Negro, they also would lose all rights to priesthood blessings."

Listen to warren making the quote above

and it goes on and on - go the URL at the top to hear it all. I have the tape - and the whole tape is creepy.

Anonymous said...

If you check into the old beliefs and such in the bible you will see that the tradition back then was to record peoples ages after they turned 12. 12 years old by the record keepers would really be 24. This has caused some confusion as the bible has been translated into english and they did not understand that was how they kept ages in that day. OTS, try reading the bible in Hebrew, you are single, on the street, and should have plenty of time. Learning to read Hebrew should keep you busy for a few months and off of the blogs. You may gain a new light on the bible as well.

Anonymous said...

If you check into the old beliefs and such in the bible you will see that the tradition back then was to record peoples ages after they turned 12. 12 years old by the record keepers would really be 24. This has caused some confusion as the bible has been translated into english and they did not understand that was how they kept ages in that day. OTS, try reading the bible in Hebrew, you are single, on the street, and should have plenty of time. Learning to read Hebrew should keep you busy for a few months and off of the blogs. You may gain a new light on the bible as well.

Anonymous said...

Amen. For what it's worth.

onthestreet said...

Amen! That says it all. It is only worthless to the worthless.

"Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord." As that transpires, "thus is the patience of the saints."

[implying that faith in Jesus must necessarily include hearkening to his warnings regarding the beast, etc...]

Anonymous said...

Oh great. Someone finally speaks out and makes sense and Street has to go and agree with him so it takes all the credibility away.

Crap!

Anonymous said...

oops.. sorry posted this on the wrong thread so oh well, I'll just put it here too.

You just have to do a mental Street delete. He can be hard to ignore sometimes but don't let anything he says influence your opinion. If I were the blog admin, I would actually delete his posts unless they were coherent...see if he was smart enough to figure out how a conversation actually works.

Anonymous said...

What happened to the post that was ragging on Arar? I was here an hour ago and it was there. now it is gone without the usual 'this post deleted' message.

Anonymous said...

sorry I meant Atar_i

onthestreet said...

ADMIN DELETED IT!
What he did, fokes, was remove a post just prior to where I had replied, thus making my reply look stupidder, instead of just stupid.
7/19/2005 12:11 AM


HERE'S THE HOLE HE CREATED
After 7/18/2005 4:54 PM

Then Anonymous said...
Amen. For what it's worth.
7/18/2005 9:20 PM

Then onthestreet said...
Amen! That says it all. It is only worthless to the worthless.

"Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord." As that transpires, "thus is the patience of the saints."

[implying that faith in Jesus must necessarily include hearkening to his warnings regarding the beast, etc...]
7/18/2005 9:46 PM

Here's the make-stupid part:
Anonymous said...
Oh great. Someone finally speaks out and makes sense and Street has to go and agree with him so it takes all the credibility away.
Crap! 7/18/2005 9:59 PM

Then Anonymous said...
oops.. sorry posted this on the wrong thread so oh well, I'll just put it here too.

You just have to do a mental Street delete. He can be hard to ignore sometimes but don't let anything he says influence your opinion. If I were the blog admin, I would actually delete his posts unless they were coherent...see if he was smart enough to figure out how a conversation actually works.
7/18/2005 10:51 PM

Well, it was more than a mental delete. Admin deleted an entire post, and how many more . . .
7/19/2005 12:16 AM

Anonymous said...

Street
If your distrust of the blog Admin runs so deep why bother posting here anymore?

onthestreet said...

No need. There's a record of it all. I'm secure within myself, without being dependant on what others do.

Anonymous said...

you sicko!!!

Anonymous said...

juts bs'in

Anonymous said...

Okay, trying to get this somewhat back on track...

I assume that FLDS women are under tremendous pressure with all of those children and how strict the religion is. I'm wondering, if someone looked into it, would they find higher rates of anorexia, depression, bullemia, and cutting amoung the women of CC?

rumor-has-it said...

DEPRESSION. Every facet of life is controled. From what to wear, who you can see, where you can go. The religion was as broad and wide as any could be until ten years ago. It has now contracted down to a teaspoon. Either you are in or out. If you watch movies, you're out. If you wear long dresses, long sleeves, long underwear, even if you screw around at night, You're IN. It is all how it looks on the surface and not on the inside.

rumor-has-it said...

I know a woman, that is a first wife, has raised her dozen kids and now has a second wife, with some young kids. Some of her kids have "left" and some are still "in". So the ones that are out, try to call and talk and do things with her (Because they love her and she is their mom). The kids that are "in" tell on her and turn her in for talking to her apostate children. All of her friends have now been "removed". Taken away from their husbands, assigned to different ones and have moved. She has one "outside" friend that she sneaks to see. But now her children are told, we can't play with you because your mom talks to outside people, "apostate" children. So she is DEPRESSED. And tried to drink her problems away. Then her husband comes home, tells her she should'nt talk to her children, grand-children, and takes away her priviledges to the car, and won't give her money. So now she is trapped! And does not have any money to buy alcohol..and if she faces her problems, she will leave. Even though, she says she loves her husband, and the "family" think that they are helping her do what is right..they are really pushing her away.

rumor-has-it said...

If we could look at the pharmacy, you would find hundreds of women are on Zoloft. This is the new "Keep Sweet" pill. If you get depressed, because you know that you can never make the grade, Then you go tell the doctor that you are depressed, and he helps by giving you a prescription. If you ever look up what the pills do, it takes away some of the logic and even though you can tell you are wearing one red shoe and one white, you don't care.

Anonymous said...

i dont think theres anything wrong with young girls getting married..its good to let young couples grow up together..and its not like you have to have a baby right after you get married anyway...

onthestreet said...

Babies are married at birth.

Anonymous said...

But you claimed once before that YOU, have never been married.?
NAME

onthestreet said...

Nope, not in that way.