Wednesday, May 04, 2005

Anonymous Posts Are Back!

Tips for users interested in starting a new thread.
1. Go to blog's opening page
2. Click on red Blogger logo in upper left corner
3. Sign in
4. Click green + (plus sign) to start a new post.

PLEASE NOTE:
This blog is once again OPEN TO ANONYMOUS POSTS! It is my hope that everyone will exercise a little common courtesy.


Thank You

95 comments:

Faithful Woman said...

Thank you Admin. And thank you for keep the site up.

Boaz said...

Admin.
Thank you for inviting me onto the site, I was able to work through the login problem through Tech support.
Boaz

Anonymous said...

Hurray!!!!!!

Now mind your Ps and Qs street!

Thank You, Admin!!!

Jude said...

blog on..

Iniard watch

Anonymous said...

Heartfelt thanks to the Weblog Administrator,I sincerely hope that we,I mean all bloggers,Ex-Flds,Texans,Flds,Christian,Mormon,Jew,Gentile,what ever, bloggers can be more respectful and tolerant to each others opinions,
Keep Sweet Eldorado!!

mugwump said...

I know the web adm. and know how much he has agonized over the foul language and comments that came to this website, His motives are pure. He just wants to allow readers to make comment and argue, if necessary your point of view. There is no need to resort to filth and slander. A wise man once said that profinity was the sign of a limited vocabulary.

Anonymous said...

Okay.

I'll be reverent now.

onthestreet said...

Keep Sweet Eldorado!!
5/10/2005 12:00 AM

Yah, Rado, keep street.

Anonymous said...

Onthestreet,

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
John 14:6

onthestreet said...

Right. That's my point. Stay on the narrow street, not the express-way of corruption, where the scripture and the prophets and your very souls are corrupted, some of us that is. Then, some few are swallowed up in the prophet of the living God. How does that make you swell up inside?

quiet canadian said...

What happened Admin? Your Blog thread states it was put out Dec. 2006. Jumping ahead into the future are you?

weblog administrator said...

just a technique I learned for keeping a post at the top of the page

Anonymous said...

(This is from the rumor mill, it may or maynot have any truth to it.)
Congratulations to:
Leonard Barlow, married to 2nd wife Susie (now how old is she?, not a day over 13)
Rod Holm, married to 4th wife, Mildred Jessop (is she the brownie points for your court case?)
Jody Johnson, married to Edmund Barlow's daughter, (how old is she? sure is tiny for how big her baby is)
Joseph Steed, each time his daughters married the "prophet" he got a new wife (brownie points again!)
Don't you love this system? (No one says no, all family happy)
Jerold Williams, married to Elizabeth Harker, I know she is old enough, but it is disgusting to know that you are married to her mother too, What is she supposed to do when she has a problem with you? She can't go talk to her mother,(she will tell you) or her father, (he is a apostate). What a box! Trapped again.
Congratulations to Valerie Williams, married to Jon Jessop, Uncle Warren really wanted to test him, he must still be laughing up his sleeve.
Sheldon Black, married Cindy Barlow, (maybe 17) Even though she wanted to get married, I don't think it is right to get such a big responsibility, so young.
Art Barlow let his daughters marry the prophet, and he got kicked out. What happened?
Tom Cox, married Tammy, is married to her mother too! At least he waited til she was old enough.

I think that because SO many families are getting torn apart, this marrying your father is getting more and more common. Is it right? Hell no! How can you get the love and support you need as a teenager, if you are scared to death that you will marry your father. My best friend was that way, her dad died and her mother married another man, she was scared to death she would marry him. He was afraid to tell her he loved her because his other wives looked at it as "lusting" She never got a hug or a kiss. what a strange situation

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know about the "Dagrow Truss Plant" in Mesquite, NV? (stands for David and Guy Allred)It is located at 797 Hardy Way, it has walls taller than the compound in Hildale, electronic gates, cameras, the works! I have drove by three times and never saw any trusses. Why the fence? Do truss plants really need that much security? Or is it a front company for Warren Jeffs?

Anonymous said...

Good work anonymous. By the way check out Crimson Cliffs L.L. C. (Isaac Jeffs) Mesquite NV. Curious what kind of business this is.

Maybe Dagrow Truss Plant is where Warren is doing his Celesial marriages.

Seems like the prophet has been busy according the post before.

Anonymous said...

I heard that Warren Jeffs was using the Ramada Inn up on the hill in Mesquite. It had a grand opening sign, but I know it was closed at that time. I heard it went bankrupt(one month after it opened) An empolyee told me it was owned by some investors from Las Vegas...Maybe..hmmm...think WJ could be behind that?

Anonymous said...

5:51,

Did you accidentally advertise on the wrong blog???

Faithful Woman said...

What? A Barlow girl married a Black guy? That one probably is a rumor, that never happened under the Barlow Dinasty. Their theory in treating the Black family was "steal the girls, damn the boys"

Anonymous said...

Is there anything special about Barlow's these days? I thought they were all cut off or had turned into Richters and Allreds or Jeffs? Sheesh!

Anonymous said...

Thank you administrator for allowing us to post incognito again. just me

Anonymous said...

Hey guys. Be careful what you say about the Barlows. We're not all that way! Faithful Woman, the Barlow theory was NOT "Steal the girls, damn the boys." That might be your opinion, but that is NOT true!!! I admire your faithfulness, I really do, but be please be careful how you say things because what you say people will take for gospel truth. Your opinion is valued, yes, but just beacuse one person might have felt a certain way doesn't mean we ALL did. Again, I really admire your sticking with it; I know that in a place where you live, it takes a lot of courage.

Faithful Woman said...

Public Apology:
I have known many Barlows and there are many who are nice. They are not all of a self superior attitude, probably only a minority have been. Now they are suffering great humility.
Sorry public, I gave voice to a "private joke", not ment to create hate, just chiding. It is a bit of a "pet peve" and I have suffered from it. Still, not nearly as much as the Barlows are doing now. They are part of my home town 'family' and I care a great deal about them.

Disgusted said...

It is my opinion that what has been done to the old "Barlow" brethren will go down in history as one of the ugliest pages in wierd religious history. Not just that, what their children have done to them will make history as well. The once Barlow women will also go down in history as being an example of how fifty years later, everyone left their husbands imprisoned, found new mates, changed their identities, and lost their natural affection. Right it down in your book.

Anonymous said...

"Write it down in your book"

right after the chapter on "Kingston"

Anonymous said...

I will tell you how to reconise a lier. If some one is critazising Warren Jeffs, you can know with out a doubt, that they are a lier. A girl does not marry her Father. You people need to tell truths, not half truths to fit your predjudice and hatred. There are a lot of very good Barlows. Leonard Barlow being one of them. Barlow's have been married to Blacks for a long time. Joe Barlow was married to, Two black girls. Keep your predjudices under your hat. I think Uncle Joe will be ok. It is written a religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things is not of God. Do you love the giver of the gift more than the gift? Do you love God the most, or do you love the things, upon the earth, most?

Anonymous said...

There have been many great journeys made, battles fought, sacrifices made; all the while thinking of the great reward, but alas, there is none.

Anonymous said...

To 11:04. That very thing was what the Nazi party did. Anyone was a lier that criticized that Godly champion of truth and liberty known as Adolf Hitler. Let's stop and puke for awhile.

Joe Barlow WAS married. Now he has none. Thanks to Adolf's brother in crime Warren. They share the same great spirit. I wonder when all the old single men will be sent to the gas chamber.

And you 11:04, you will get to be their brother who removes the bodies, all the while denying that this holocaust ever happened at all. It was all just anti Warren lies.

Anonymous said...

anon 5/19 11:04 pm

Ruth is at it again!

Anonymous said...

"If some one is critazising Warren Jeffs, you can know with out a doubt, that they are a lier"

yup...one great big pack of liars

you got more liars coming out of your group than a political party

you say you're practicing religion?

sounds like to me, you need more practice

keep sweet eldorado
stg

Anonymous said...

Yup, keep trying. I know you can do it if you try.

onthestreet said...

Anonymous (5/20/2005 9:47 AM)

Pretty sensational. "Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh." Therefore, why do you love holocausts so much? You're not very descent with people, are you?

onthestreet said...

Oh, sorry about poking around outside my calf-stall. Forgot. Back in again.

ATAR_i said...

Liar is spelled L I A R.

On the Street - couldn't stay in your own place - now your 'ots again'.

ATAR_i said...

A man is only as good as his word.

Friday, May 13, 2005
OnTheStreet's Area

I promised OnTheStreet I'd make him his very own area. By using this, he is agreeing that he will post all of his thoughts/ideas/feelings in this area, and not any other on texaspolygamy.blogspot.com. I will assume that posts in other areas on the board after 5/12/05 will annul this agreement, and I will delete OnTheStreet's Area.

posted by ATAR_i at 8:21 PM


Street's reply

Choke, Choke, Gasp, Gasp.
Well, okay, you want dazzle. Okay, if you must. As far as the agreement, yah, a man is as good as his word. Sure, I'll post only here. You lucky dogs, you.


By onthestreet, at 5/14/2005 5:41 PM

Anonymous said...

Barlow Onthestreet! Why haven't you changed your name yet?

Anonymous said...

The end is nigh.

http://www.thespectrum.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050525/NEWS01/505250312/1002

onthestreet said...

The end was nigh when the Prophet left. My reply to all this? I won't duplicate it here, to avoid redundency. I replied in the "Cops Raid" thread.

Anonymous said...

What is the truth behind the Sons of Helaman? Do they exist? Are they Warren's faith police?

Anonymous said...

Sons of Helaman are not unique to the FLDS but just as radical ..
http://members.aol.com/acadac/talks/ret-ym.htm
comming for the "Book of Helaman".
http://www.mazeministry.com/machine/modern/helaman.htm

Anonymous said...

The Sons of Helaman is a Book of Mormon story about 2000 young warriers who faught valiantly.

There are rumors of a "God Squad" in Colorado City of ruthless thugs and spies who serve at the command of Warren Jeffs. The rumor is that they will do ANYTHING they are told to do, and that the community fears them greatly. I have heard that they are referred to as the "Sons of Helaman".

I appreciate the question, and would like to hear more of them from people who know.

HardHeaded said...

The sons of helaman in Colorado City are nothing more than the brain child of James Allred, who taught about 250 young men how to march in unison. I was actually once part of them. We put on performances for the 4th of July, 24th, harvest fest, etc. We would meet at 5:00 AM on Tuesdays and Thursdays for practice. I can't remember exactly how many platoons we had but we had those, platoon leaders, flag bearers, drummer boy, and an honor platoon. Our mothers made us our uniforms (white shirt with decorations, blue tie, and blue pants) which we never wore until dress rehearsals and then the actual performance. It was enjoyable while it lasted but they quit when we quit celebrating holidays.

ThePilot said...

Just a FYI:

Flew over compound today after the rain (.5 inches). Brick work starting to take shape – slowly but they are going at it with some effort now. They are building a big terrace around the temple. It may soon be a wall to be installed in the future.

Concrete is being loaded the silo. There are MANY trucks at the temple but I saw only 3 or 4 men outside. The rest must be inside.

Women are still in garden and its looking good. Quarry has expanded for more stone. Sewer is untouched as they said they would until permit. All is peaceful.

onthestreet said...

All is peaceful. That says it all.

winglessnetherland said...

my random visit of the day ^_^


www.winglessnetherland.com

Anonymous said...

MAILING ADDRESS FOR ELDORADO FLDS IS:

PO BOX 715
ELDORADO, TEXAS 76936

C/O MERRILL JESSOP

Anonymous said...

Hardheaded:

So the Sons of Helaman are NOT the "God Squad"?

What can you tell us about the "God Squad", or whatever else they call the FLDS secret police?

onthestreet said...

I was going to post alot of things for you yesterday, and today. As abusive as it seems to you all, I forebare. I will spare you all.

ATAR_i said...

Atar gives street a virtual hug, thanks, I'll try and do the same sometimes too. We'll give these guys a break from us :)

HardHeaded said...

I've actually never heard of the " God Squad". I think it's just one of those rumors that starts small and gains mass as it goes. It's possible that someone not associated with the flds saw the sons of helaman in the parade or something and drew their own conclusion.

HardHeaded said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
HardHeaded said...

Oh and Street, we all appreciate what you didn't do. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Anonymous said...

Pilot report:
•2/3 of south wall of temple brick is complete.
•Rear entrance nearing completion.
•Front entrance – still primitive but much dirt work has been done for a gradual slope.
•Women and children are now running from site. Why?
•Bull dozer in water to the top of tracks in the concrete plant after 4.5 inch rain.
•US Customs jet was in airspace same time of day as I; they were also doing recon.
•Garden is getting big and green. Looks great from the air.
•New equipment is being unloaded. I do not know what it is but its big. Eldorado FLDS certainly does not act like it is in any financial difficulty. Business as usually at the compound.

Anonymous said...

To hardheaded:
Don't know how long you've been gone, but "God Squad" was the term we affectionately gave to Warren's personal police force who stayed physically close. Some of these people were (then) the marshalls in town--I guess they've been stripped of their badges now-- and they DID tell him all the official police business and reported to him whenever any of his flock got into mischief. Others of the God Squad were not officers, just big beefy guys who were in to high-electronic surveilance, alarm systems, etc.
The God Squad was NOT the Sons of Helaman, who were the small boys in uniform who paraded.

Fried Female said...

To anonymous pilot reporter:
You say that women and children are running from the site. What does that mean? Are they running from a particular place inside the compound to another place in the compound or are they literally running from the compound? And if so, where are they going and are they getting the help they need?

Anonymous said...

Warren had Will T. ask the people for another $1,ooo.oo last Saturday.

ATAR_i said...

Man that's cruel -

Who is will T?

ThePilot said...

To:Fried Female,
I do not know why they are running. They quit running from aircraft 6 months ago. The women and children were in the garden and all ran to a white four door with camper shell on it. No reason to run. The men working at the site just ignored us and went on with their agendas. Only the people in the garden ran.

Anonymous said...

Atar

Will T. is the bishop appointed by Warren when he sent Fred Jessop into hiding. He was Fred's right hand man and a person Warren could trust to do as he is told. I know Will and he is not one to think for himself much. In a way he is one of the victims. One of the willing victims. I don't believe Warren has much use for him other than that it was easy for the people to accept him because of his closeness to Fred.

Anonymous said...

I can tell you people posting about people in our church have been out of the loop awhile. And as for telling you are business, it is none of your business.

Anonymous said...

Building a compound with a sewer, concrete plant and a quarry in our back yard makes it our business!!

ATAR_i said...

I don't think that the things an individual does only belong to the group of people who are of the same religious affiliation.

For instance - if I'm a catholic, but I leave garbage on the street in a rural neighborhood and people ask who I am. The church wouldn't rush to my rescue and state. "It's none of your business, she's catholic".

It's an argument that just doesn't make sense to me. If I've taken your remarks out of context - please clarify.

onthestreet said...

Well put, Atar. when the garbage is no longer onthestreet, I will be done with it. Catholic is not FLDS. See your folly, comparing apples and oranges. Strangely, no body will agree that they're the same. Am I right? You see, in the street called straight, everything is the Prophet's business, for it is God's business. It's not the same order (or shall we say, disorder) that you find in all CULT-tures, like your own.

Anonymous said...

To OTS:

ya da ya da ya da..

onthestreet said...

Or shall we say, La, a note to follow soul. Now, there you will find much meaning, if I could share it with yoj.

Anonymous said...

If you could spell maybe you could share it.

onthestreet said...

Ahh, now that is no typo yoj is the union of two ancient tradions, if only I could share it with you.

onthestreet said...

See, more tyepose. Now there's a stumbling blok fo yu.

ATAR_i said...

Atar <----not catholic.

But I'll put it in FLDS terms just for you : )

I don't think that the things an individual does only belong to the group of people who are of the same religious affiliation.

For instance - if I'm FLDS, but I leave garbage on the street in Phoenix in a rural neighborhood and people ask who I am. The church wouldn't rush to my rescue and state. "It's none of your business, she's FLDS".

It's an argument that just doesn't make sense to me. If I've taken your remarks out of context - please clarify. (this last part is not for street - it's for the other poster who I was responding to).

ThePilot said...

Pilot Report:
Contrary to popular belief, our sheriff knows exactly what is going on at the compound and has a great line of communication with both the FLDS at Eldorado and the Texas DPS. He has done an excellent job of corralling hot heads and squelching rumors.

•My father flew the sheriff over compound yesterday. Sheriff Doran has the best camera I ever saw and knows how to use it. Very good photos.
•Kids form a circle with their heads down – they look like little flowers. Too cute (sad but still cute).
•No sign of a crematorium, no smokestacks or massive exhaust vents, nothing that would validate any conspiracy rumors at all.
•DPS helicopter is doing recon today – nothing out of the ordinary
•Very ornate brick work around windows. Almost like a sculptor chiseled designs into the brick – beautiful work.

Bulldozer is still in the water, we received another .6 inches of rain and much lightening last night. All is peaceful at the compound. No Red flags that would lead one to believe something unusual is going on, other than the children have now been taught hide their identity and keep their heads down. Sad...

onthestreet said...

Atar roof, slippery as ever:
Let me make it easy for you:

1. First, you can't put it in
FLDS terms, not being FLDS. That's like presuming to put it in brain-surgeon's terms without being a brain surgoen, see? You don't have the background for it.

2. Second, you say you "don't think that the things an individual does only belong to the group of people who are of the same religious affiliation." That would be quite truthful in other churches, but those aren't "FLDS terms" at all. You make my point supremely in this statement alone. You see, you failed to understand that in a united order after the order of Christ, as told in Acts where we have "ALL THINGS IN COMMON. . ." (Acts 2:44, 4:32), all things that one individual does and has, does indeed belong to the whole group. Even if it's negative such as one leaving garbage on the street, then it is like a finger of the body of Christ muddying up the whole body. You err in saying the church wouldn't rush in and say it's none of your business, she's FLDS, for everything that happens affects the whole, and is controlled by the head.

Anonymous said...

Well, there may be no sign of a crematorium, since at my end in CC it was all on paper. However, when each project I work on gets more intense pressure for more secrecy and I am told "this is training for how things are in Zion. You can't even tell your wife what you are working on." I was also told, "don't even begin to speculate what this is for" even though it was harmless projects. I was also involved in scenarios where A and B worked on this project. A and C worked on that project. B and C work on this other project, but neither B nor C could talk to A about the project they were working on even though A is working with both of them on other projects.

The last project I was working on was also a harmless piece of machinery, but the next project on the drawing board was a furnace capable of 2700F and it *was* going to go to YFZ ranch. Now, why the increased training and pressure. I was supposed to work 20 hour days, but was a little rebellious. I was supposed to eat on-site, but told the others I was a family man and I was going to eat with my wife. I was supposed to work Sunday, too. Lyle was about to dismiss me from this project before I dismissed myself. Uh--20 hour days being fed on site, nothing I was working on could leave the premise; I couldn't do anything on my personal computer even though it would have been more efficient, and increasing pressure that "if even one CAD drawing gets out of here, the prophet's life could be jeopardized" is in my mind training for the next project--I was specifically told that "this is *training* for how things will be in Zion" The next project *was indeed* a furnace capable of 2700F. I had already begun preliminary work on it.

Pilot can say what he wants to, but I have been there in CC and witnesses what I have witnessed. I still live in CC, by the way.

As far as use for adobes--the buildings at YFZ are all log.

As far as curing limestone--heat breaks it down and is one of many processes used in making Portland Cement.

Iron-ore--no evidence of that at the ranch.

Only one thing remains whereby I can give someone the benefit of the doubt--gold refining for gold ornamentation inside the temple; purge all Gentile contaminations out of it. (A little sarcasm about a far-fetched use) However, I am still bothered by the paranoia and secrecy and increased pressure I was getting put under--that and *lies* to Gentile vendors about what be were building--that's right--we were getting trained to lie to them about what we were building.

ATAR_i said...

Street - your an apostate remember, you're not one of them either.

Faithful Woman said...

9:19
If you still want to be anonymous you better be careful what you say. I know who you are and I'm sure Lyle does too. Not saying you have to revert back to warrenite security. We enjoy your company. Just if you still want to keep your anonymous stance you better not give so many clues.

ATAR_i said...

I think we have someone who's going to step across the path and stand with Uncle Spencer, and Faithful - might be nice to have some company.

Anonymous said...

I know we are trying to ignore Street but - that last statement about the FLDS being responsible for the actions of every one of its members with the prophet being the head?? WoW! That breaks down into some pretty scary stuff. Does Street realize with some of his scripture quotes immaculately researched and written in some blogs -- and in others all mangled, mispelled, and twisted - that he is giving himself away? If his last statement was translated literally, then every crime committed by anyone who was ever a member of the FLDS including the crimes they are trying to arrest Warren Jeffs for would condemn every man, woman and child still faithful members - or for that matter those of us that have left. If Street is fine with that then he can share the place in hell reserved for some of the crimes still waiting for the day in Courts. And before you say anything Street - that isn't just the Courts of Utah, Arizona, or Texas, nevermind Canada - that includes the final Court. There will be one.

ATAR_i said...

what do you mean giving himself away - can you explain?

Anonymous said...

Dear Anonymous

"The last project I was working on was also a harmless piece of machinery, but the next project on the drawing board was a furnace capable of 2700F and it *was* going to go to YFZ ranch."

Question...So you can walk away from the ranch. Interesting without any retribution?

This furnace, what kind of fuel has to run it? The ranch has only two kinds of fuel..now, electric and propane. Is it a self contain unit?

Portland Cement production, that interesting. Could be for that. It has to be getting pretty expensive to purchase all that cement. And from viewing from afar they are getting ready to step it up a notch.

Anonymous said...

I was never at the ranch--things often get built in CC and then shipped out there; technical and machining resources are greater here than there. As far as retribution, I chose not to leave my wife as I was instructed, and she chose to stay with me.

As far as "Faithful woman" knowing who I am, I am not surprised, but I don't know who she is. I probably should be a little more careful, but when one's hair is temporarily in orbit, they tend not to be the most discrete.

One of the processes for Portland Cement gets a little above 2700F, so they would next need a larger furnace for mixing the sand with the calcite. Sorry, a little internet research begins to shoot this one down, too. Besides, I think anyone in their right mind would sell the limestone waste by truck and exchange it for cement--it wouldn't be profitable to get set up for production.

As far as what kind of fuel, etc., I didn't get that far before leaving. My job was to sense temperature (I had to use infrared--thermocouples would melt), create a display and keypad controller, and output heating requests and another individual would take it from there, whose name I know but won't even put initials here.

Remember that it was still on the drawing board in CC when I left, and I only know a slight piece of the puzzle. I have never directly said I was building a crematory, I am only giving out evidence and letting the jury make their decision.

The so-called evidence for a crematory came from a post by GBNF stating that someone from YFZ let the cat out of the bag--now that could be total rumor, but when I read their post, my hair about went into orbit and I decided to step forth and tell what I had formerly kept secret.

I still ask the question--why the increased secrecy on harmless machines and being told this is training?

Anonymous said...

Mr. Anonymous 8:15
Why the secrets? Control, control, control...and maybe they are not harmless machines. Time will tell.

Thank you for your honest answer and telling the folks here your concerns.

I am glad your family stayed with you. Your marriage vows meant something. God will honor you.

Of course you have to wonder why Uncle Warren brought back Brigham Young's Blood Atonement teachings.
Can someone out there tell me how Brigham arrived at such a twisted thought. I have my own opinion, but I might get attacked by Satan Worshippers.

Anonymous said...

The doctrines of the Church affirm that the Atonement wrought by the shedding of the blood of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is efficacious for the sins of all who believe, repent, are baptized by one having authority, and receive the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. However, if a person thereafter commits a grievous sin such as the shedding of innocent blood, the Savior´s sacrifice alone will not absolve the person of the consequences of the sin. Only by voluntarily submitting to whatever penalty the Lord may require can that person benefit from the Atonement of Christ.

Several early Church leaders, most notably Brigham Young, taught that in a complete theocracy the Lord could require the voluntary shedding of a murderer´s blood-presumably by capital punishment-as part of the process of Atonement for such grievous sin. This was referred to as "blood Atonement." Since such a theocracy has not been operative in modern times, the practical effect of the idea was its use as a rhetorical device to heighten the awareness of Latter-day Saints of the seriousness of murder and other major sins. This view is not a doctrine of the Church and has never been practiced by the Church at any time.

Early anti-Mormon writers charged that under Brigham Young the Church practiced "blood Atonement," by which they meant Church-instigated violence directed at dissenters, enemies, and strangers. This claim distorted the whole idea of blood atonement—which was based on voluntary submission by an offender—into a supposed justification of involuntary punishment. Occasional isolated acts of violence that occurred in areas where Latter-day Saints lived were typical of that period in the history of the American West, but they were not instances of Church-sanctioned blood Atonement.

Anonymous said...


http://www.xmission.com/~country/reason/blood.htm

Anonymous said...

I posted twice, The first ( 1:43 ) is an explanation from a Mormon point of view. The latter (1:51), originally appeared in The Salt Lake City Messenger, Issue No. 92, April, 1997 and is more informative. When in doubt, GOOGLE It!

ThePilot said...

I posted this on the wrong thread but:

I would like everyone to know that Warren and his flock does read this. I posted a pilot report that said the DPS would be flying recon over the compound that day. When I posted it, I thought they had finished, but in reality they were about 3-4 hours behind schedule. Guess what, no one was outside; no child, women, or anything moved. It was either a hell of a coincidence or they read this blog. My apologies to the Schleicher County Sheriffs office for blowing a perfectly good photo opportunity. It will not happen again.

GBNF said...

To 6/2/2005 8:15 AM,
I just wanted to say thank you for speaking out. I heard a rumor, and spoke of my own conspiracy theory.
I think we all agree that if Warren was doing good things he would not need to hide and lie.
The truth will set you free! Have a great new life!

Men In Black said...

Lets talk about the buildings being moved?
JENNIFER DOBNER
The Associated Press

advertisement

SALT LAKE CITY - Just after a court order freezing some assets of a southern Utah polygamist sect, several buildings believed to be owned by the religious order were dismantled and moved, a likely violation of the judge's ruling.



In Hildale, Utah, an 18,000-square foot warehouse-type building, once the location of Cozy Log Homes mill and construction company, was dismantled over the weekend, said Sam Brower, a private investigator employed by several church dissidents said

Jay Beswick

Antique Mormon said...

Anon 1:43 Your Mormon point of view on the issue of "blood Atonement" is an accurate explanation of this misunderstood topic. Throughout ancient history, many organizations required that if someone took the life of another, then they must forfeit their own. Mormonism expanded upon that history by making it known that "capital punishment" was necessary for the offence of taking another persons life.

Among the fundamentalist believing people, there have been many groups who have wasted their breath preaching long sermons about it. Since this blog is about Texas Polygamy and the FLDS, I for one can tell you that prior to WJ wresting control of the church and people, the topic of "blood Atonement" was neither welcome nor usual doctrine. But neither was the practice of sworn secrecy by oaths and combinations.

In the Book of Mormon the people who practiced the shedding of others blood were the Gadianton robbers. It is strange that they were bound by secret oaths and combinations to the utter destruction of those who would not join them. They delighted in ruining peoples lives and practiced their murderous trade on President and peon alike, with a total disrespect for any and all laws and governance.

fttc said...

Antique

No one familiar with Mormonism can deny that there are ordinances and doctrines that have been kept secret. Most work done in the temple is not open to the public. Our scriptures talk of not giving meat to those on a milk diet. Warren is very good at taking truths such as this and standing them on thier head. Using them to fulfill his twisted and perverted designs. Most of those folowing him see his secrecy as an extension of these early teachings of the church. They are not able to stand back and see the whole picture as we can from the outside. There is a huge difference between the true secrets and Warren's secrets. You brought this out in referring to the Gadianton robbers. Theirs is a work of destruction where the truth is a work of building up. The world has long had a problem with not being able to know what goes on in the temples. But at the same time they have not been able to come up with any crimes that were committed there. They tried all of Joseph, Brigham, and John Taylor's days to find one. The only laws they could find broken were those they violated the Constitution in making. Such is not the case with Warren unless as his followers believe you say any law that gets in his way is not a righteous law. He is spurning the laws of God and man.

Men In Black said...

Warren is no fool, but lives life according to his own rules. Last week removing buildings and that rotary sprinkler system was an example of his defiance of the law and the states injunction. He was well aware of the freeze of assets, but in defying the law, set an example to those that are following his lead. It supports a theory that gods law is higher than mans and sets the stage for actions that will follow.

When Ruby Jessop was an issue, Warren already used Dan Barlow as a spokesman for the Ron Allen state bill SB146, he knew the law had passed, but it was not law until April 30th 2001 when Governor Mike Leavitt would sign it in. Ruby was 14, 10 days shy of her 15th birthday. On or about April 23rd in defiance of this new law Warren officiated another under age marriage, in the knowledge that technically the law was not yet in place. This is an example of Warren again defining gods law, but in reality it is Warren's law, placing himself as high as god or so for those who believe in him.

After a series of events that defy civil authority, how hard will it be for the faithful to follow Warren blindly. To the most extreme of commands, it won't be the first and the faithful have been conditioned to follow.

Bringing back the teachings of "blood atonement", with variations from that of the LDS church, will be real to those that have followed Warren this far all ready. The teachings were always there and exampled by Gary Gilmore who recieved the death sentence in Utah years back, he requested or demanded the firing squad to exact the shedding of his own blood, per his belief. The LDS church publicly denied this teaching and was so quoted in the press. None the less the option existed under state law and would of been otherwise removed as an option, except for these early teachings.

As for much of what occurs in the LDS temple, the Tanners; Gerald and Sandra have largely published the ceremonies much to the dismay of the mainstream LDS church.

Deborah Laake's - Secret Ceremonies : A Mormon Woman's Intimate Diary of Marriage and Beyond, also detailed the inner workings of endowment ceremonies. Maybe some here might understand more to realize and understand that Deborah was the Assitant Editor of the New Times in Phoenix once and in her untimely death, some have taken on this crusade in memory of her. From Secret to Sacred, the inner workings of the Temple are more known to some than others, as we live in a world where secrets are pretty hard to be kept.

onthestreet said...

All a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof. Therefore they are without effect and void.

furnace said...

I visited a laboratory in the backyard shop of a man that lives near Cedar City today. In this laboratory is an oven using electric heat--I assume nichrome wire, but electric heat, none-the-less. The insulation is 1 1/2 inches thick zirconium and the oven is sealed. This oven can reach 2500F, and a crematory only needs to reach 1800F. An electric crematory wouldn't need a lot of exhaust.

Now, the "harmless machine" could be used to shape zirconium or other ceramics for a crematory, such as making an airtight door.

I do know that thermocouples could have been used--Type K can easily handle crematory temperatures--why the use of an infrared temperature sensor instead, I don't know.

GBNF said...

Furnace,
Do you agree with my conspiracy theory of blood atonement and cremation? And would you tell what you know to authorities?

furnace said...

Authorities know who I am.

Anonymous said...

Angel of Morning says - What would be the sense of talking to the authorities about anything to do with the construction of a crematory furnace in Warren Jeffs Temple?? The Sheriff there seems intent on continually assuring all that things are "peaceful and calm" on the YFZ ranch. As one blogger put it - you would have no bodies to show and from the RCMP in Canada, to local Sherrif's, to State Troopers, to FBI, CIA, or any other Law Enforcement they will do nothing until you can lead them to a skeleton, a bloody knife, dead body, or take them to Warren Jeffs standing right over top someone in the act. One major problem with figuring out IF such a furnace was being used would be noone has any way of knowing who is actually at the YFZ ranch. HOW many? Who comes and goes? How many babies are being born without being registered there? Who has a family head count on the wives and children left behind in CC with fathers, a few wives and some children in YFZ? Would anyone left behind have any ability of talking to the ones at the YFZ to find out if they are alright and even still alive at all? There could be hundreds of people missing already and we would have no way of knowing.
When the State of UTah puts an order stating that Warren Jeffs has to leave UEP assets alone and he has his people just step up the process of dismantling what might be left of any thing and the State does nothing??? HOw odd. They needed to have people in place the gaurd all the visible assets immediately in order for Warren Jeffs not to make a laughing stock out of "Man's Law" yet again. His people must be celebrateing today. I would like to know if the Government, law enforcement, whoever the lucky body might be will take it to the level of going after the property stolen since the Court Order was made?? For the sake of anyone who might be considering talking about Warren Jeffs, his enforcers, and how terrified they are -- I really hope so. So far there has been absolutely nothing on the part of CPS, the AG's office, the FBI, or the Marines to help people feel safe yet.

Anonymous said...

Just in case there might be some Sherrif, Building Inspectors office, or any other liscencing body that thinks that Warren Jeffs and his minions, would even pretend to get a liscence to build a crematorium then you haven't figured this Crisis at your door our at all. If Warren Jeffs felt he needed a Crematorium in his temple -- "it would be done." Has there been one official of ANY KIND FROM ANY DEPARTMENT allowed close enough to the temple to touch the outside wall let alone have any idea what the floor plans are??? I doubt it.

Anonymous said...

In Texas counties have very limited powers over land use, only cities (incorporated municipalities) such as Eldorado, TX have the power to create and enforce zoning.

YFZ is in unincorported territory which means that they are basiclly free to use the land and build what they want without restriction. The water district can regulate water wells, TCEQ can regulate sewage systems, the CAD can inspect buildings to determine value, usually by determining size, they don't have the right to enter buildings without permission of owner. The CAD can't come into my home to determine value, but can make visual observations to determine value. CAD = Central Appraisal District

So there is most likely no copies on plans for temple on file anywhere.

If the temple was inside Eldorado city limits, city building inspector could enter structure while under construction without permission of owner and could force construction to stop, but since outside city limits, no inspection.

It should be noted that authorities have a good idea what floor plans are as temple has been under as contant watch by air as poster pilot and others have pointed out. They know by observation by air how temple is built, number of floors, type of frame, stairwells etc.

If someone wants to get temple inspected, look to the feds, federal law states that all public, commerical buildings must be wheel chair accessable, have elevators etc. If temple dosen't meet federal rules for handicapped persons, federal inspectors can come in and check if building meets standards for handicaped persons, and fine YFZ.

Americans with Disablities Act of 1990. Does temple meet the rules of this act, are there wheel chair ramps, elevators, handicap access restrooms, doorways, hallways?

http://www.ada.gov/enforce.htm