Friday, May 30, 2008

Advice for the CPS or Judges

Post any advice you may have that would answer the following:

What would you do differently if you were in the shoes of the CPS and trying to keep the children?

49 comments:

Kimberly said...

I would make sure at this point to make all the parents come in and personally claim there children for 2 reasons. First it will give clear direction on who belongs to who and
secondly because these people are sick in the head and I would not put it past them to claim some of there children are "missing" just so they can bully cps into leaving them alone.
Another thought they must require dna because who is to say these children all even belong to these people as they seem to do a lot of moving around of children and taking them from utah/arizona. So I would also make sure if they have "custody" of non biological children than any adoptions are legal. You cant just give your kids away or can you? they seem to be able to do anything they want.
dot the I's and cross the t's. thats all I am saying.

Anonymous said...

Are the children being medically treated on a regular basis? Are they visiting pediatricians? Do they have needed immunizations? Are they receiving an education and participating in an accredited school system? Do the children have their own bedrooms? Do the children have legal documents that state their birth, who they are, and their birth parents? Isn't it emotional abuse to live in a large facility (as a child) and be fenced in like a criminal? Does freedom of religion (very crucial to our nation) include accepting religions that include children's sexual abuse? The lost boys have rights to family as well as the girls who remain, why not track down these excommunicated boys and find the families who abandoned them? Can CPS maintain weekly visits with the children and document where the children are living (when they are forced out) and if they suddenly at 12 years of age are now living with their "uncle?" The mothers and fathers who are so concerned for their childrens' welfare should be held accountable along with the offenders when each sexual abuse case is identified and held as accomplices: it is highly public what occurs there and the parents are willingly maintaining their children in circumstances where their children are eventually subject to sexual abuse or abandonment. Is there any hope for education to the women there and children especially that the basis for their religion is incredibly egoistically based off of a few grown men who "have them (the women and children) right where they want them." Where is any one individual celebrated for their uniqueness or intelligence or inquisitiveness or curiosity? Okay, I digressed a lot! Stick to basic requirements that children are entitled to, do any of these children have that? A church or a temple is a place to visit and worship, not a place to barricade yourselves up into or lock up(emotionally and physically) your loved ones or community. Have the women ever voted there? Does anyone vote or care for the country in which they live? Does anyone participate in the town they live in? Is it illegal to create your own city, your own reservation, your own "nation" without some legal discussion with the state or nation in which you reside?

Anonymous said...

If I were for CPS and the Judges and wanted to hang onto the kids (which I am actually against them having the kids)I would have tried to have found some specific young underage girls that had children or had sex with older men to bolster my case. CPS had nothing specific.

I would also have tried to reach out to the FLDS church members and hopefully convince some of them to leave their church. I don't think that CPS did anything to try to reach and convince the FLDS members that their religion is wrong if that is what CPS believed (but I don't believe that the FLDS members should listen to CPS anyways).

Angel said...

The goal is neither to keep the children nor to return the children.... The goal is to do what is best for the children.... which will most likely mean returning the children while keeping the families under CPS supervision.

Anonymous said...

the cps will have to prove that each child is in immediate danger of being abused.
I agree with waiting till the DNA is in, it will prove who the Fathers of the babies born to underage mothers are. Merilyn Jeffs Keato is 18 and has a 18 month old son. she was living at the ranch in March of 2007, she is listed as being 17 and the family record shows a 5month baby boy. The CPS will have to prove that she was at YFZ when she conceived, because she was old enough in UTAH.
The thing is if CPS wouldn't have taken all the children they would not have been able to search the grounds of the YZF and they wouldn't have some of the incrimiating evidence to charge some of the men with under age sex.

Anonymous said...

Realize that "immediate" means less than "sometime within 5 to 50 years"

Rainbow said...

The State of Texas needs to grow a pair, and protect these children!

Anonymous said...

Don't step on constitutional rights would have been a great start for CPS. Since it's obvious that they messed up pretty bad
I think CPS needs to give an apology and if there are still concerns for the well being of any or certain children then go about it with common sense instead of bringing in Armegaddon. I think they better prepare for a bunch of lawsuits, too.

muscogeean said...

CPS was wrong on every level. They need to answer
seriously question as to the leadership that approved
these course od action. People need to lose their jobs.
Lawsuits on behalf of the injured families must go
forward quickly. This must never happen in America
again.

Anonymous said...

If there was concern, it should have been investigated. The CPS appeared to have gone in there with a preplanned agenda, no way did they put that raid into operation so quickly in response to just some alleged phone calls.

Anonymous said...

Make sure that the DNA evidence is going to be admissible in court after matching fathers to teenage girls. Then get the best prosecutors to take the law breakers to trial, including the mothers that allowed the teens to marry adults.

Unfortunately, the 'marriages' of adults to minors (if you can call them marriages) will continue unless the FLDS see that the state means business.

Anonymous said...

I don't have any good advice, just want to express my sympathies for these kids. I was raised in a very conservative religion with abusive attitudes re women. Despite bruises and welts my complaints to school teachers, nurses, etc were ignored. We never stayed in one place long enough for a kid to be taken seriously I guess.

After leaving them, my early adulthood was very troubled as I was raised to be submissive and accept physical abuse - and to blame myself for the harm others inflicted on me. I was a mess - and many of these kids will be too.

Anonymous said...

Some of you are suggesting that there should be lawsuits filed against the state of Texas. My advice to the FLDS: bring it on.

Let's see if you have it in you. Are you confidenct enough in your innocence to do such a thing? Methinks not.

I know you won't do it because you know how LUCKY you are to be getting your children back and you won't push your luck. Mark my word, people.

Anonymous said...

2:38 PM

Why is it the yappiest guy in the bar can never back-up his mouth?

If I was flds I would sue the pants off those Idiots. Guilt or innocence was never questioned. So far the only ones proven by the courts to have broken any laws was the CPS.

Anonymous said...

another self righteous nut posted above. Obviously they werent your children or relatives. Everyone even those who think theirs a spec of abuse in the FLDS dont want the inoceent traumatised.
I do hope you dont vote. Please find a hole and obtain permanent land rights.

heres some advice for Barbara.

QUIT and Apologize before you lose all shred of reputation.

Anonymous said...

June 8th ION will air the DVD production by Living Hope Ministries, "Lifting the Veil on Polygamy."

Anonymous said...

I'm not posting from a bar - I'm in my kitchen. How would I "back up" a prediction?

All I'm saying is I wish the FLDS WOULD sue. I'm simply predicting that they're smart enough to quit while they're ahead.

You're right - none of my friends or relatives were inside that God-forsaken situation. If they were I'd be cheering for their freedom. The fact that the FLDS proudly tout a pedophile serving time in prison as their leader should be an indicator of their credibility. Don't tell me that most children are perfectly safe within. It defies logic.

Oh, and I do vote - OFTEN. I'll work on finding an hole if you'll work on finding your spell check.

Anonymous said...

"Are you confidenct enough in your innocence to do such a thing?"

I really doubt the FLDS are going to sue for money, and it will have nothing to do with confidence in innocence. It will be from a desire to forgive.

Anonymous said...

Hurry up and bring on some charges. The polygamist community keeps calling for evidence. That is the only thing they can hide behind right now, is that there is no evidence of teenagers marrying adults. Oh, thats right, the Bishops Record does say otherwise, and also the warrant for Warren Jeffs DNA.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous, why are you looking for "an" hole? Why not "a" hole instead? Sorry, I guess it's pretty obvious.....You just looked in the mirror and found that "a" hole looking right back at you!!
LOL

Anonymous said...

Hey Anon 12:16: Did your spell checker tell you to use the word "an" before the word hole instead of "a" before the word hole?
We can understand I guess, because you were probably searching for "an" hole since you already looked in the mirror and discovered the "a" hole was staring right back at you!! Ha Ha

Anonymous said...

Anon 8:35 aka anon 10:51 aka eager beaver,

Sometimes it takes more than a couple of hours for your comments to get posted. I realize you had a zinger that you were just dying to get read, but be patient and in due time we'll all get to enjoy your "punniness".

Anonymous said...

i just heard on the news that you all are getting your kids back and i have only one comment to that..GOOD FOR YOU!!!!

Anonymous said...

Will you be updating your blog?

Anonymous said...

If CPS wants to be consistent, they should raid the public school system. 50% of 12 year old girls have STDs. Why isn't CPS concerned about them?? Although I don't think what the FLDS are accused of doing is right, AT LEAST they had to be married first, even if it was to an older man -- but we still don't have evidence of that! I guess as long as religion is not involved, "children" having sex is OK.

Anonymous said...

I don't care how you look at it; a person in authority should not have an intimate relationship with anyone under the age 18 or preferably 21, to avoid being guilty of abusing that position.

Anonymous said...

anon 11:19,

Where did you get the statistic that 50% of 12 year old girls in the public school systems have STDs? Can you provide a credible reference? Warren's sermons don't count.

Anonymous said...

I don't have any problem with monitoring the underage girls who ask CPS for assistance, but we all know that the worst person to raise a child is the government. I don't know the statistics, but CPS doses not get involved in the many cases of teen pregrancy in the public schools. I don't approve of the life style of these people but if there are any ommish people in Texas you better get now. CPS knows best and if you don't bow down at let them turn your child into a criminal like they have the thousands in foster care now they will come after you.

Texas CPS can investigate all they want to, but if they don't come up with some proof by the end of the summer, the Judge needs to order CPS to be pay the FDLS people two years of their budget and ask their help in raising kids. CPS has a place and God knows we need someone to look out for kids in danger, but political stuff like this should draw prison time for the director of CPS and lost of jobs for all supervisors in this mess.

Anonymous said...

How can you compare teen pregnancies in the public schools to teen pregnancies of women who were "prophesied" to marry men 2 and 3 times their age and carry their offspring?

The difference is one group was irresponsible and the other was manipulated.

Anonymous said...

Dont you get it yet, The women of the FLDS are not 'prophesied' to marry a man, they have a choice in the matter.

They most often marry someone of their own age and chosing, or a few years older.

But whom they marry is none of your dam business is it,

Go get your own life.

Anonymous said...

Anon 8:24,

What I've heard (from others who claim to be in your group on this blog) is that there is no force, but that the FLDS women submit this decision to the prophet...

...who is currently serving time in prison for playing a role in an underage marriage. In case you haven't been tuned in to the national news, there are some pretty nausiating pictures of Warren sucking face with two girls in their early teens.

Anonymous said...

Today I'm watching on court TV the trial of a Polygamist from the Hildale community for having sex with a minor at the behest of W. Jeffs.

Very interesting.

Anonymous said...

In the Bateman trial, he is not disputing that he had sex with a minor, in fact his first wife was 15 when he married her.

He is forcing the prosecution to prove that the rape happened in Arizona. From what I understand, this is EXACTLY why they settled on the Utah/AZ border.

btw, would someone be so kind as to repost the site where Jeffs is kissing the minor? Thanks!

Anonymous said...

WSJ: big baby love pics

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/may/23/hearing-includes-photos-of-sect-leader-kissing/

Anonymous said...

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0527081flds1.html

Anonymous said...

A few more stats on our own girls.

National Center for Health Statistics 2002 report
5.7% of American girls nationwide become sexually active before age 14
13.0% before 15
26.8% before 16
43.1% before 17 and
58.0% before 18
31.5% of girls 15-19 use contraception
30% of girls 15-17 are sexually active
There were 212,000 RECORDED teen abortions in 2002 down from 351,000 in 1995

Anonymous said...

Perhaps the legal age for marriage and sex should be 18? Perhaps this will eliminate the issues in both the FLDS and mainstream america, as its called.

Anonymous said...

The stats listed above make it look like our teenagers are having less sex than the FLDS teenagers.

One similarity - few of them are legally married.

Anonymous said...

"But whom they marry is none of your dam business is it,

Go get your own life."

Yes, but I guess it is the laws business, and some FLDS may be getting just that, life imprisonment.

So, judges, execute the law.
CPS, don't screw it up next time.

Anonymous said...

There has been enough evidence given by the women that escaped this life style to know flds is using religion while dirty old men rape little girls, get rid of young boys so there is no competion for them. UH are we in USA? The country that is suppose to not allow slavery, ???? Protect children at all costs???
Srry I have not seen this in the Judges Decisionto give them back to a fenced in peice of land that the picture of Warren Jeffs is hanging in every room ( But hes in jail for abusing young girls) .The mothers of these kids will do as the profet says . So wow thats a reasuring thought> Every little kids ideal safe zone . .... Whos child belongs to who? They swap children like livestock . If you cant prove a child is yours, how do you get to keep it ????? This all is unreal .

Anonymous said...

What a nerve CPS have thinking they can give parenting to classes to loving mothers and well-behaved, happy children. They should get themselves into the ghettos and start parenting classes there to stop crime before it starts. They should be giving parenting classes to the parents of daycare kids who are raised by an institution instead of a family. They should keep their paws off healthy children and stop trying to give them vaccines which are nothing more than WMD.

CPS need to clean up their own house before giving housecleaning instructions to loving mothers. I bet the majority of those CPS workers actually spend about an hour and a half a day in total with their own kids, then sit them in front of TV all weekend.

Shame on the the lot of them, the police who went in with guns, the Gov, the judicial system. It's a disgrace.

Anonymous said...

11:17,

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. If you're FLDS, the best testimony of your life being better and different would be to extend forgiveness, not hatred, towards those who have wronged you.

You might want to get that diarrhea of the mouth checked out.

Anonymous said...

"There has been enough evidence given by the women that escaped this life style to know flds is using religion while dirty old men rape little girls, get rid of young boys so there is no competion for them"

Evidence? You mean fictional books, or graphic imaginations?

“This is akin to taking the testimony of an ex-wife who has left her husband and had a bitter divorce to find out what his character is like without using any other source of information.” -Sam Roundy

uncaduff said...

re 6/08/7:33 Sam, I think you KNOW BETTER than that. I fully understand your outrage over what has happened, but if your honest, you will have to admit that what these women have written in there books has much truth in it.
Sam your too good of a man to be blinded by the fraud that has been perpetrated on our people.

Anonymous said...

i would pursue criminal charges immediately on all parents in violation of the law.

Anonymous said...

Wow a lot of coments and emotexpressed here. Hard to deside where to begin?

The photos of Jeffs with possibly a young girl are scarry. The girls face is blured, and she is tiny!! Facial expressions could give more information, BUT her posture seems relaxed, comfortable, and not forced? If the evidence proves she is in fact 12-13-14-or less than 18years old. If the claimed church records actually do prove she is underage, married,(probably consumated after a year!)with an aniversary picture then please charge this man with the crime. More time in jail would be good for him, and for his followers to see!! Anything less gives justice to their feers and need for secrecy.

As this evidence has been in the police and CPS's hands for over TWO months, and no charges have been filed, I have to question their claims, I am not willing to just accept the CPS's allegations as to this persons age. So far their guessing of girls ages (and ignoring, proper identifications to add false numbers of impregnated minors to prove thier case)has proven to be less than accurate? CPS insisted a 27 year old woman was a minor!!

I'm 4' 8 1/2" short, wieghed about 100 lbs at 27, and had three children. I looked 16, my husband was 6' 200 lbs balding and looked 40, he was only 28.

I am in NO WAY defending Jeffs!! He is where he needs to be and I hope they can (LEGALLY, provably) add more time to his sentence.

His crimes, do not justify the Texas court alowing CPS to kidnap 400+ children from loving families.

DNA testing, has nothing to do with desiding who these kids parents are. Put an adopted child of 5 years old seperated from family for two months, in a room with his birth mother (he has never seen) and his true mother and see who he runs to. DNA has nothing to do with who a childs parents are. Many sperm donars will never be a daddy, many will never marry the mothers of their children.

Why reject a group of people who share the responsibility of raising and loving all the children, wheather or not you have blood or legal responsibilities?

CPS (the government agency) doesn't care about these children. Yes some of the workers do, but the agency itself only cares about increasing the number of children who they can convince the tax payers need protection. There fore increasing the need for more tax dollars. They have fed the media blatent lies to justify their exhistance, and secure their future.

Those of you who are afraid of what the FLDS are teaching their children please take a minute to think? They teach the Bible, morals, maners, respect for elders, education, eat healthy, most TV is imoral and violent, hard work, contribute to the community, women should be married to men before child birth, children are a gift, honor and respect your spouse. I ask is this really so bad?

What is the texas CPS, the Mayor, the police department, and a judge teaching them or you? They have the right to step in take children, church records, destroy families, tramatize children, cause financial burden without just cause or a legal warrent for their actions.

If we as a people, of a free country, do NOT stand up for this small group of American citizens, based on the religious freedom our country has promised, by demanding the persons or agencies responsible for violating their rights be held acountable. Then we are all doomed to the same fate sometime in the future?

Just my thoughtsions

Anonymous said...

The children in this cult, and it is a cult, are bound to be abused, or taken advantage of by the adults. The adults do not know what they are doing, so how could the kids be safe? One cannot earn their way to heaven by "pleasing" God. That is why Christ died for each one of us, to take the punishment that we deserve. We have only to accept Him as our Lord and Savior. In doing this, we revive that part of us that died at the Fall, and we naturally live different lives. He loves every one of us individually. We do not have to be "married" to reach Him; we have a relationship with him here and now, and into eternity.

Anonymous said...

there is one interesting thing you all should take notice of here. In St. George there is a woman's shelter. There are woman and children caged. This is there shelter. The men are running loose to steal and vandalize at there pleasure, because they have money to pay the judge and lawyer's and the woman do not. It is common in our society to take advantage of woman and children who have been abused. After all it is just a job for the state, and they get paid; regardless of who is hurt. Wake up America; you are already in bondage. The shelters in America support abuse in there abstract way!

Anonymous said...

and to all you people who believe that my believes are a cult; I would say you speak from your own desires of control and manipulation. Some of you believe in U. F. O.'s and alien's. Some of you believe in drinking. Some of you believe in stealing. Some of you believe in cheating some one who is down and out. Some of you believe in war. Some of you believe in not believing. I say to all you cult seeker's and theory seeker's and two faced, manipulater's to keep your cult idea's to your own self. I am not a cult. I am not your pet. I am not your neighbor's opinion. I am not any thing but a person. If i was stupid would you cheat me. Would you do all you could to destroy me. Would you declare war on me, and rejoice to see me fail. America is at war. Who voted for this? What are you doing to build. If you worshiped that little statue in your house would you call yourself a cultest? If you woursghiped a frog would you call yourself an egiption? If you spelled terribly, would you jump off a bridge or put yourself in jail? Would you go to school, so that some one that worshiped a cow could call you names and say you was a cultest? Would you become a doctor to change your thinking and thing men heal? Would you swim in the river to change your bed? would you lable people you hate, because you are hateful? Would you uphold the law of the land, and demand the law people uphold, the law of the land, or would you sit at home with your finger on the telivision controller, eating pizza calling poeple names because you disagreed with him and name calling was easy to do, because it distrubed people to call other's a cult? Would you put in another Macdonalds house so you could be paid for your insult's? just question's. I know you are sensitive and can not handle much or you would not lable me.