Merril Jessop and Isaac Jeffs disagree on management of YFZ so they have split up. Isaac and his followers have headed toward the coast.
Apostates of the apostates.
We will have to let them know they are welcome at the Creek...our problems are having problems..they could help solve them.
I don't worry much about Isaac, but it is all of Warrens wives he is "taking care of" that has me a little concerned.
41 comments:
Who is the worthy senior between the two, and enjoyed the most confidence from both Rulon and Warren? Also, neither coast is the designated gathering place, and his father told him to stay away from the waters. So did his elder brother, both being prophets inspired of God, for that's the Word of God in your Bible, to stay away from the waters and be still. The coasts are just into the lap of Babylon. The sifting continues for sure.
Rumor,
What is your source?
Do you have any more info?
IITMOC
Interesting, could this forshadow a split in the FLDS now that Warren Jeffs out of picture as a convict? Which coast did Issac head for, East Coast, west Coast of Gulf coast? Hopefully not Gulf coast, which means he could still here in Texas.
Where does your info come from? How valid is it knowing the secrecy involved in the YFZ in the past?
Just rumors, but you gotta know that the Jeffs do things totally different than Merril Jessop. I hear about MJ's manipulating and force and good old boy things he has done. The Jeffs seem to be black and white and pretty much follow the book (Most things:) It is pretty much the difference between the old farmer that keeps every piece of trash and piles around the farm, to the new kid on the block that has never got his hands dirty and has no value for anything that is already there. Has always had pavement to his door and garbage pickup automatically.
Probably the same reason that Warren Jeffs left Short Creek. It's the good old boy mentality. Why he would choose Texas???? It prob has more Good Ol' Boys than any other state.
If this is true, I hope the splits keep occurring until each man is his own leader, and then maybe they will get a little self-autonomy.
I have just stumbled upon this blog and have been reading it intently the past couple of weeks, combing the archives for some background. I have been doing some research on polygamy and the FLDS and have been trying to read any and all books I can find about the practice, including personal memoirs. Thus, I'm finding the conversation about Merril Jessop of great interest, having just read "Escape".
My main question about polygamy is this- what happens to all the extra boys/men? I know there are slightly more females than males in the world, but not enough extra to allow each man to have a wife, if many men are marrying multiples. Perhaps the idea in FLDS is for young men to convert non-FLDS, but I'm wondering how often this happens. And if the FLDS advocates polygamy for all, wouldn't there be millions of men in the world who had no available women?
Sorry to hijack this thread!!
1/30/2008 12:27 PM
Yah, quit hijacking the string. I still have my kite to fly. Just kidding, widdo poo poo.
As for surplus boys, or surplus wives for so worthy a few, it's all according to God's doings. We all get bantered about, knocked down, picked up, brushed off, and then in the good time of the Lord sprayed clean when you decide to be clean, in this life or some other life.
Throughout the Bible, people were cast out, and even Israel as a nation cast out, whenever they became lax in keeping the strick Order of the Lord God and His Prophet. It's all in the Bible, if you'll quit using it for toilet tissue or blowing your nose. You have to overcome the overheating in your pants first.
If you want to see and experience the most interesting and intriguing story ever Writ, sit yo ass down and read the Bible cover to cover non-stop. You will never reach the end, for with every page eaten up, grows another to feed your insatiable appetite. Just don't slobber.
Street
Anon 12:27-
Don't apologize for natural curiosity. It's better to ask than to just assume and make judgments based solely on the media.
Don't worry about hijacking the thread. We always wonder off-topic. That's just what happens.
No, the FLDS do not believe the young men should go out and convert wives. The last converts I knew of were over twelve years ago. An entire family. Onther man I knew of had a "gentile" wife he'd converted, and the prophet told him he had to give her up or give up his right to the priesthood (be asked to leave and cut- off from his family/ religion).
The only thing I remember hearing is that we shall have to convert our own children to the "gospel" and let the world go to hell for it was too ripe in iniquity to be worth saving.
To be honest there really is no doctrine about the unequal quantities of available sexes. It is simply: Be faithful and you shall be rewarded. Many people believe the older men kick the young men out creating the "Lost Boys" in an effort to balance the number of available females per males. This is a logical assumption that is rather hard for the FLDS to defend against unless you consider the numbers of young men who DON'T get asked to leave and prove their faithfulness and obtain a wife. They, too, would have been asked to leave had they done the things (and I totally think some of these things are innocent and judged too harshly) that the other boys had done. And I also do not agree that it is a suitable decision to just dump these young men helplessly at the cruel mercy of the world around them. Simply dumping a problem never solves anything. It only creates more problems. Which the FLDS then complain of as "religious persecution". How very convenient that their religion is so unique for if it were not they would actually have to take responsibility for their own actions.
As for the whole world being converted to the FLDS and becoming polygamous, not even the FLDS consider it. They believe the end of the world is coming- destructions will kill the population of the earth, basically revelations in the Bible, and they alone will be left to rule the planet in righteousness. They really do not take much thought to the numbers of males verses female, and use the fact you mentioned about there being slightly more females in the world to justify their lifestyle.
Maybe Nephi, if the rumor is true, IS taking the people toward the gulf coast. The FLDS "Zion" is Jackson County, Missouri, and Navoo IL. All Nephi would have to do from there is travel up the Mississippi river and he would be in his "Zion". Also, YFZ is Yearning For Zion, not Here is Zion. Maybe Nephi is going to Missouri to await the second coming as his father prophesied?
bbgae- thank you so much for your thoughtful response. I have no objection to polygamy in theory, as long as those participating are doing so voluntarily and are legal adults.
I guess I'm trying to separate out is fact from fiction and media hype vs. reality. I'm wondering how those on the inside view the way FLDS polygamy is treated in the popular press. I'm also torn between believing in one's freedom of religion and whether or not those young people in these communities are truly "free" to choose the lifestyle and faith that they want to choose. It's hard for me to believe that in this day and age that girls are "assigned" husbands when they are too young to really make those kinds of decisions. However, if adults enter these relationships freely and without coercion or excessive pressure, I believe that our government should stay out of their business.
I believe that my children should come to their faith on their own without pressure from me. I can provide the examples of my faith and expose them to what I believe is right and good, but ultimately, they have to walk their own path. I'm wondering how much the children of FLDS are able to do the same thing.
Are Merril Jessop's wives being reassigned to Isaac now? Interesting...
Are there any converts to the Centennial Park group, or to the third ward ? I believe the Centennial Park group has adherents in the valley and they should come in contact with some "gentile" women.
Street have you ever read the Bible? New Testament.
Not Joseph Smith Revised Version.
Casting the "bad seed out of the FLDS" is not done properly.
Jesus laided out the proper way in Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: if thy brother sin, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
17:4 And if he sin against thee seven times in the day, and seven times turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
I do enjoy your posts now, since you decided to talk as normal with out the potty mouth.
Also, you do better having people understand your points, by keeping it short and simple.
Matthew 5:43 Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy:
5:44 but I say unto you, love your enemies, and pray for them that persecute you;
5:45 that ye may be sons of your Father who is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sendeth rain on the just and the unjust.
5:46 For if ye love them that love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the Gentiles the same?
5:48 Ye therefore shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Street this is way to become perfect......Not the FLDS way.
Yes, I have a Kingy Jamey voision, and have wed it covow to covow. Those who are still out and out are still in the rebuking stage, see my widdo poo poo. You haven't wepented yet, nor "turned unto him yet, not even once, let alone seven times. To repent unto the Lord or His prophet is first to acknowledge them. Lacking that, you're just a lacky, see see?
See, it's all done properly, even with the kiddy's still in diapers, calling themselves all gwowed up.
For the church to love thy neighbor as thyself is to chastise them, for this is Christ's Way to perfection:
"As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Be zealous therefore, and repent" (Rev.3:19).
Everyone will agree that the FLDS Church has rebuked and been rebuked more than any. Therefore, they are Christ's church, whom He loveth, and the way to become perfect, "if thou wilt receive it".
Anon 5:55-
You are welcome :)
If you tried to talk to an FLDS person about the media they would refuse to listen to anything or believe anything. They consider all the media about them to be lies made up by the "gentiles" with the specific purpose of persecuting them religiously and making them appear "wicked" to the rest of the world.
If you asked them about their right to free choice they would defend it vehemently declaring they have the right to free choice. To them the choice is: do what you are told and find a place in heaven, or: do what you are told not to do and go to hell. Most religions have that theology. The difference with the FLDS is they are told what to do in a lot more areas than most other religions from to they way to comb their hair in the morning down to the private thoughts they think. They always have that choice before them where most other people are given more options to choose from on a daily basis and that particular choice is all encompassing the little choices.
Mats-erik-
I don't know anything about the Centennial Park group's doctrine on converts.
Should I peep in here and repwy to that, or would you watho I bounce on out of here? Boing Boing Boing...ZING! Wichochet Wabbit.
squak, squaaakk, steety wanna cracker.
Your bible seems to the Kinky Jim deVersion Street.
If you really want him to go away- just ignore him.
To ignore is to igsnore. Then you just wakey wakey eggs and bakey, from all that gross snorting.
Now, if you weally weally want me to go away, just wepent and be baptised in the Wivew Jodan. Then, not even that would make me go away, because I would be rejoicing with you over our saved souls. But this cannot be by word alone, but by the broken heart and the contrite spirit.
Merrill, Merrill,
rule the world,
he's the new profit.
With Paul and all
standing TX tall
YFZ usurped it.
Isaac was married to my sister Jennifer Jessop, has anyone seen her or my other sisters Carla and Asenith that were married to Warren? If you have seen them, or know where they are, any info is more than I have.... annonymousofficegirl@yahoo.com
thanks
they did not realize that slavery is a condition of mind, and as a class slaves are quite happy in there serfdom, being as unaware of there true condition as those caught in the coils of superstition. no one sees the coils but the free man on the outside. the beauty of freedoms fight is that it frees the fighter.
Elbert Hubbard.
Hey just thought i'd make a clarification for the the inquirer about converting people. FLDS might not desire to convert or share the truthfullness of the gospel, but a true MORMON Fundamentalist has in themselves a desire to share the truth. We do not shirk, we are not scared. We believe that it is our obligation to share the truth to any honest in heart that is interest.
They did not realize that slavery is a condition of mind, and as a class slaves are quite happy in there serfdom, being as unaware of there true condition as those caught in the coils of superstition. No one sees the coils but the free man on the outside. the beauty of freedoms fight is that it frees the fighter.
Elbert Hubbard. 2/12/2008 7:09 AM
STREET's REPLY
“Is Israel a servant? Is he a homeborn slave? Why is he spoiled? (like a rotten apple)? Jer.2:14. Thus are they cast off, “on the outside”, the five who were once a virgin stream, found on the left hand of God: “And the foolish virgins said unto the wise: “Give us of your oil (spirit-unions), for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered saying, Not so, lest there be not enough for us and you. But go ye rather to them that sell (Matt.25:8). They who sell are the prostitute churches who sell out, who now walk the streets as common harlots in fulfillment of another prophecy, not realizing their slavery-condition of their minds).
The Jew, the Christian, and mainstream Mormon fulfill the prophecy of muddied waters and the falling away. We must remember that the apostles and early Christians were NOT sustained, but rather they were martyred. Then, by the time Constantine came, the muddied version, like the “UEP” today, was upheld. “For that day shall not come, except there be a falling away first” ((2 Thes.2:3). This is the muddy stream which Christ Himself prophesied of:
“But he that heareth (the Gospel, that Iron Rod along the stream of life: I Ne.8:19), and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation (Yesod), built a house upon the earth, against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell (fell away, or apostatized). And the ruin of that house was great” (Luke 6:49).
bbgae, it's Isaac Jeffs, not Nephi Jeffs. Nephi is still loyal of Warren as far as I know.
Ok. thanks. Just a little mix-up. :)
Street:
“But he that heareth (the Gospel, that Iron Rod along the stream of life: I Ne.8:19), and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation (Yesod), built a house upon the earth, against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell (fell away, or apostatized). And the ruin of that house was great” (Luke 6:49).
Check out Proverbs 23:13-14. Could the rod be a stick or the gospel?
THE ROD (1): So true. The rod runs the gammet, from the body and the mind, which are the root and foundation, to the beauty of the soul, to the grace of the spirit of man, to discipline, correct, and perfect the children of God. Israel had both the physical discipline in Egypt, as well as the judgments of God in their promised land, as well as the Gospel of Christ for self-discipline. But before one finds their true self, they need assistance in establishing a foundation.
As the prophets all taught, any physical correction must always be tempered, "lest he esteem thee to be his enemy" (D&C 121:43). The body is the temple of God and is not to be abused. Still, a sharp correction is not abuse as the quilty-minded often assume. To avoid correction is the ultimate abuse. Often a little love tap is sufficient, depending on how ingrained one's habits are. If they are irreversible, then it is a rod unto death, by natural causes, which also disciplines the soul for the better.
Living and correction should always be according to the law of God, not the corrupt law of man. Where there are good laws of the land, that is the law of God. That is Gospel.
THE ROD (2): Having said this, I should talk, being the most wicked man on the face of the earth, as Adam was most wicked after the fall. Yet He God repented of that, and later that He had even created man. Thus the rod, and then the bow, showing forth an increase of love, which is Christ.
R-o-d: Resh, Chowlem, Dalet.
Resh is head, Chowlem is holy, Dalet is selflessness.
This shows forth the meaning of “rod”: The head wields what is holy in selflessness, and permuted it is door (rod spelled backwards), to show us the door (in or out). This is perfectly manifest in Uncle Warren, godlike, even as the worldly blaspheme against Him, against themselves.
“He that overcometh and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron (Rev.2:26).
THE ROD (3): Rod in Hebrew is “mattah”, meaning “scepter, branch or tribe, prepared in advance to alienate” (Matt.10:34). Israel or Jacob placed “rods” or matters before all kinds of people or tribes (Gen. 30:37), as the head wielding what is holy in selflessness, to claim his own, saying to Laban: “That my righteousness answer for me” (Gen.30:33). A tribe or an army is a rod, in heaven and on earth, and they shall do battle one against the other: “The nations were angry, and Thy wrath is come” (Rev.11:18). There is much more. It would take a thousand years to write, in God’s time, for it is endless, and I am incapable.
OMG, now we got too funny bunny's to listen to.
To Anonymous of 2/13/2008 4:39PM:
That wasn't TOO funny bunny to listen to TWO individuals talk about scriptures and theology. You aren't TOO uncomfortable about scripture, are you? Because I've always thought the world to be quite the source for problems when it came to doctrine and scripture. No one knows it. Everyone follows whomever and pretends to know, but doesn't really when asked, but that's also personal opinion. It may have no bearing on what is actually true.
That was a great post; thanks Street. You are a very wise individual when it comes to your theology and scripture. I think some posters here could learn something from you...
That's all I've got to say.
S
you have now entered the twilight zone. too doo dodo dodo.
Hey Street,
Looks as if you have done a little trademark infringement. May I please have your mailing address so my lawyers may contact you.
TRADEMARKS
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Ahh, talk about confusion, ye cannot even see the spaces between words. Just the empty space betwixt thine ears.
Onthestreet (not of course to be udderly confused with On The Street).
sbarlow,
Question for you? Do you live in CC? Do you know what is going on in there? Is William (T) Jessop leading things at CC? I ran into him at Red Lobster in St. G. I thought he's wanted by the Law. Any light you can shed would be appreciated.
Thanks.
My observations of FLDS is its a bunch of men physically, verbally abusing and who knows what else to women and children. Power tripping with a Bible in one hand and a big stick in the other. Not my kind of religion or belief in God. In the end God has the last word not man. Peace to all the suffering beings in this group.
My observation of you is that your a bigated hateful physically and verbally abusive and who knows what else you do to women and children. Power tripping with a bible in one hand and a big stick in the other. Not even interested in any of your comments and I don't think anybody else is so why don't you just shut your mouth. Lets not talk about all the abuse thats in all the neighboring communities Adultery Fornication Teen Pregnacy and Prostitution Murder Robbery hate and above all anti Christ. Shame on all of us. I would rather do business with these people than I would any of us outsiders at least they give you a fair shake and are honest in what they do. Lets get off our high horse. Lets clean up our own back yards. Thanks moderator for letting this get published.
Anonymous 2/22/2008 1:57 PM -
You're wasting your time by asking me such questions. Such questions should not be answered to outsiders. Go do something meaningful with your time like trying to take away children and place them in Gentile homes.
S
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