FLDS Prophet Warren Jeffs may be serving life in prison, but his followers continue with their work on the YFZ Ranch near Eldorado, Texas where the group's white limestone Temple towers over the town they are building. Polygamy, the practice of plural marriage, appears to be alive and well in the Lone Star State, despite laws to the contrary.
Thursday, January 03, 2008
John Nickelson Funeral Today
John Nickleson was from SLC so I don't know him at all. His son died a year or so ago when he was cliff climbing. Anyone remember him, his family and have any of them left?
62 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Daughter Kathy Jo had been interviewed alot the last year by print and Television media.
The family still is hurting over the "accidental" death of her brother an expert climber.
Johnny Nickelson died in a repelling accident outside of Colorado City in 2004 Pioneer Day. Sorry, but the investigation left more questions than answers.
Also, rumor how did Mr. Nickelson, Sr. die? Natural or accident?
He had several daughters married into the Jeffs clan.
And as for Caroline or Carolyn Jessop there is no connection.
Street very good quote. I guess you speak from experience.
7:35- I apologize. Since I have misinterpreted your post, would you be so kind as to elaborate on the incinents surrounding the boy's death so that I might understand?
When and where did he die? Who investigated and why? Are there links to newspaper articles?
8:16- Thank you for Kathy Jo's story. As I was reading it, I couldn't help but to wonder if my life would have followed a similar path if I had but just summoned the courage to approach the man I was in love with and left the religion with him instead of allowing myself to be "married" to my first husband.
Kathy Jo should be proud of all she has achieved and all the obstacles she overcame to find personal happiness and quality of life.
Street very good quote. I guess you speak from experience. 1/04/2008 7:35 AM
REPLY: “The wicked flee when no man pursueth” (Prov.28:1). Me, speaking from experience? Well, first I must say that I am the most wicked man since Adam, so that would fit. If the Prophet can say that, it is infinitely true of any other man on this planet. But the train of thought in the dialog is not on me. Bbgae (1/03/3:47 PM) is talking about the paranoia of enemies of the Church asserting that because they are enemies of the Church or of God, that their lives are automatically compromised. They certainly are, but not by the Church. They are compromised by themselves, thus subjecting themselves to the enemy of the soul, of body, mind, and soul.
As for that class of citizens living in the greatest of love and of unity and productivity on the Texas plains near Eldorado, and their counterpart in Short Creek, I guess their enemies can try to interpret the pursuit of federal and state law enforcement officers as no man pursuing, and therefore if they flee they are wicked, just as Christ fled 36-year old Herod the Great (Matt.2:13), and later fled Herod Archelaus’ officers (Matt.2:22), and spent most of his life in Galilee. After his crucifixion, even the women fled from the sepulcher (Mark 16:18). Were any such persons wicked because they fled, or because they feared no man nor his law, but rather feared God? So what happened. Herod, being the wicked one, was banished in 6AD, just two years after succeeding his father as king of Judea.
Christ and His prophets in all ages of the earth flee when the wicked rule. “Fools go where angels fear to tread”, but “the prosperity of fools shall destroy them”, saith the Lord (Prov.1:32). After Christ’s arrest, “all the disciples forsook Him and fled” (Matt.26:56). The fleeing of the righteous, those who fear God and His Law, is not for cowardice, but for wisdom and continued peace. No, it is not the fleeing, nor defying of man’s law that makes one wicked, but the fearing of man and rejecting God that makes man evil and fallen and without hope, as social and political and economic upheavals come to pass.
I did have a question that perhaps you have a logical answer for.
We, referring to the FLDS, have seen a lot of the men and families move out of Short Creek for Texas and other areas. Warren has become discouraged with this area, condemned and forsook it. With that happening, how can the former promises of earlier prophets regarding Short Creek be fulfilled? Also, who was uncle Roy referring to when he said "those who have apostisized will get discouraged and leave." It would appear that only the half hearted and “apostates” are the ones who are here.
Most of the time I skip over your spycho babble epistles with a live and let live attitude.
However- DO NOT ATTEMPT to interpret my posts for others. I do not care how you take them or how anyone else takes what I have to say, but do not post the meanings of my posts, please.
I speak plainly and I mean what I say. There is no need for interpretation from you or anyone.
If someone wants me to explain or elaborate on what I say, all they have to do is ask me and I will answer. I DO NOT need you to speak for me.
We, referring to the FLDS, have seen a lot of the men and families move out of Short Creek for Texas and other areas. Warren has become discouraged with this area, condemned and forsook it. With that happening, how can the former promises of earlier prophets regarding Short Creek be fulfilled? Also, who was uncle Roy referring to when he said "those who have apostisized will get discouraged and leave." It would appear that only the half hearted and “apostates” are the ones who are here. __________________________________
REPLY:
First, anyone nowadays saying they're FLDS cannot be true if they are not united with the Prophet. Why? Because unity is "Fundamentalist".
Second, prefacing a prophecy about discouragement with a suggestion that one got discouraged, in order to give the appearance that they fulfill that prophecy doesn't make it so. Christ also "got discouraged" with the Jews AND LEFT, moved to Galilee. So is Christ now among the wicked, because "He could perform no miracles there because of unbelief"? Do you see the folly of such presumption and assersion?
Third, promises never did equate to fulfillment in the history of the Gospel of Christ. What does the Lord say about covenant breakers, after receiving such grand promises? "Ye have no promise". Every Priesthood promise in heaven and on the earth is predicated upon faith and faithfulness. If the Prophet hid his face from there, as Christ did from Jerusalem, it is because of their unbelief, due to their rejection of his word regarding immorality and coming out of the world, and offering up your sacrifices for the Work of the Lord, or any other righteous word that came to you from that man.
Fourth, the prophecy of LeRoy Johnson that the apostate would get discouraged and leave has come to pass, and continues to come to pass to this day. Even today, men are leaving the man. He was talking about leaving the Priesthood and the spirit that moves him forward, not about glomming on or rejecting a piece of dirt, a tiny plot of land. The work of Zion will fill the earth, so the Priesthood will likewise move forward and cover the earth, just as Brigham moved the saints from Joseph's beloved Nauvoo. The Sabboth or the Work and Word of the Priesthood was made for man. Man was not made for the Sabboth or the Work or Word of the Priesthood, or for any earthly place. Zion glitters the sky, and it is an expanding universe. The Prophet is moving forward, regardless of the dirt or the shackles that they place upon him.
Quote from Street... "We believe in worshipping God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may”.
That is one of the FLDS Church’s Articles of Faith, and by casting out so many, the Prophet obeyed his faith and put it into practice, allowing all others to worship how they may, apart or afar, so that the faithful may do the same, worship how they may."
Does anyone else find this comment terribly funny?
1, they just think its a "test" to see if they will follow the "Prophet", because they have had it drilled in them that "God and the prophet do right."
Drills make for proficiency. Ask any army. They will DRILL its truth and veracity into you, and by judgment God will do the same.
Now, I am not a critic. I'm an admirer, to see you all coming along so finely, for with you it is certainly a test, that all may worship how, where, or what they may.
See, God Himself will speak lies through the Prophet, to deceive the wicked, because they receive not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause, GOD shall send them strong delusions, that they should believe a lie, that they may all be damned who believe not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. WHAT! The God of Truth will deceive man, even lie to him? Yes, if you believe the Word of God (2 Thess.2:3-12).
So Warren is the most wicked, and is not a prophet. There’s your lie to take you to your fate after 2012, that you may all be damned, and God Himself has contributed to the deception through the Prophet Warren Jeffs. “Cursed are all those that shall lift up their heel against mine anointed, saith the Lord, and cry they have sinned when they have not sinned before me, saith the Lord, but have done that which was meet in mine eyes, and which I commanded them. But those who cry transgression do it because they are the servants of sin, and are the children of disobedience themselves…a generation of vipers shall not escape the damnation of hell. Behold, mine eyes see and know all their works, and I have in reserve a swift judgment in the season thereof for them all. (D&C 121:16-24).
Street
Here is the scripture street is referring too.
2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness doth already work: only there is one that restraineth now, until he be taken out of the way. 2:8 And then shall be revealed the lawless one, whom the Lord Jesus shall slay with the breath of his mouth, and bring to nought by the manifestation of his coming; 2:9 even he, whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 2:10 and with all deceit of unrighteousness for them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2:11 And for this cause God sendeth them a working of error, that they should believe a lie: 2:12 that they all might be judged who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 2:14 whereunto he called you through our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2:15 So then, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye were taught, whether by word, or by epistle of ours. 2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, 2:17 comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
I dont know why you're being so defensive, i wasnt saying it in a rude way. I know what its like out there. I feel like i dont need someone to tell me what to believe and what not to believe, especially if its someone that has said they are the most wicked man on earth and confessed to molesting his daughter and sisters. I think the principal of the religion is awesome but it has gotten outta hand as time has gone on, its just my opinion.
You may remember that Laurie (LeBaron) Allen is the producer & narrator of BANKING ON HEAVEN http://www.bankingonheaven.com/. Many of her reminicences that you hear in the film are about her experiences growing up in a polygamous cult. She was kidnapped at a young age by her uncle Ross W. LeBaron, Jr. and kept as a slave by Ross in Latin America until she escaped at age 16.
Laurie was alienated from Ross' family for the last 18 years, since they considered her an apostate. Although she helped raise many of the children in very harsh conditions (deserts & jungles), she was considered the black sheep. Laurie is currently completing a screenplay and a memoir about her experiences.
When Ross' wife Diana was diagnosed with cancer 2 years ago, Laurie was allowed back into their secret world. She has always suspected that her polygamous uncle Ross was fathering his own grandchildren, but nobody would listen.
"I talked to so many relatives about it," Laurie said, "but nobody believed me." She finally convinced several members of the LeBaron family to join her in going to law enforcement with their concerns. More family members became involved, and the result is the explosive document you are about to read.
Dear Family Members,
We now know for a fact that members of our immediate family are involved in incest. We have been suspicious for years, but believed that incest was unlikely. However, new and disturbing evidence obligated us to find a definitive answer; therefore, we conducted DNA testing.
The DNA test proved that our sister's son is without any doubt a product of incest. His Y chromosome is exactly the same as ours. Given that other children were born under equally suspicious circumstances, we assume that these children are products of incest as well. Substantial evidence indicates, and we are personally convinced, that our dad (Ross Wesley LeBaron Jr), two of our brothers, and three of our sisters have engaged in incestuous relations.
We recently confronted these members of our family and although they never made any direct admissions of incestuous behavior, they did, in fact, adamantly defend the practice. Also, through a number of statements made to us, they confirmed our suspicions that our dad and oldest sister have been engaging in an incestuous relationship for many years.
We tried through reason, logic and scientific research, to persuade them to end their destructive beliefs and practice. Our efforts were to no avail. We are left with public exposure as our best hope. We very much dislike having to take actions against our family, but we believe it is absolutely necessary to expose them and put an end to this outrageous, immoral, and destructive conduct.
Our primary goal is to protect our youngest brother and sister, who are in danger of eventually being compelled to participate in this heinous lifestyle. It is our sincere hope that we can help and provide them with the opportunity for a better life.
We hope and pray that our dad, brothers and sisters might come to understand that their deluded and pernicious philosophy and belief system is simply unnatural, genetically destructive and immoral, and that they will put an end to the damage being done to their posterity.
Zigzag- Was that what you wanted to start a new thread on? Just click on the orange B (blogger) in the far upper left corner of this page and it will take you to blogger home page. You should be able to make a new post from there.
Do you have any other proof of the incest other than your retyped letter?
I tried to figure out that posting thing too. I get the dashboard, but not the blog. Google doesn't make it easy to understand for some reason. There is everything in the help menu except how to join an existing blog and how to create a post.
Maybe it's because you have to be set up to create a thread by the blog admin?
The funeral was held in Colorado City at the LSJ meeting house, with a large and beautiful gathering. I understand he has had cancer, and underwent an operation, which he came out of fine, but ended up with pnumonia...someone correct me if this is wrong. His wife gave a very interesting eulogy.
Did you attend the funeral? If so, I'd be grateful if you could email me at outofpolygamy@aol.com I would like to know more about it. I'd also appreciate anything you can tell me. Did anyone post his obit? What was interesting about the eulogy and what was his wife's name?
Kathy Jo, why so much interest now? You have killed your father many times over with your actions hitherto, M. Barbara gave the Eulogy and very eloquently conveyed what a grand and wonderful and loyal man Uncle John was. He lived and died loyal and true. Which is more than can be said for you. (Sigma I am a Poet and you my friends did not know it)
Anon 8:15, You don not have the right to tell Kathy that she killed her father many times over. It is NON of your business!! I dont blame Kathy for leaving, that religion is the biggest scam! Mind your own business!!
Anon- You should know better than to make a jab at someone when they are grieving the loss of a family member even if you don't agree with her life choices.
Thank you for giving me more details about John Nicholson's death. I hold no grudge against you for your comment. Since I left the FLDS I have come to know what it means to love unconditionally. I will give that to my own children regardless of their choices. They are my greatest accomplishment. They will have a better life because I have made the right choice. My father knows this now.
Unfortunately there is a great price tag attached to freedom. It has cost me greatly, but what I have gained is priceless. I will never disown any member of my family. My door is always open to them. Carry on.
We all came to obtain the experiences we are now obtaining. We are now obtaining the experiences that we came here to obtain. No animal is better than a human. No human better than an angel. We're all at the stage of life that we're at, and that's that. We each will create the karma and conditions that will give to each and all the preordained variety and events in this life that make up this world, for all to experience in our own way. We're all judged accordingly, and find our place and degree of being, high and low.
Whatever Kathy Jo, or anyone else, has done, or think that their kin has done or failed to do, we all have an ego to deal with, and have failed others in some way. Every parent must answer to the failures (or successes) of their offspring, even if they are saints who have lost some of their little ones.
If there is a God and he's really all that most of you say he is, he would punish me severely if I let one of my offspring seek out and join the flds...and I would deserve it.
I would like to be as open-minded as some of you and allow my kids the choice, but I will not allow my kids to go near the flds until they are old enough to understand how sick and wrong it is.
Uh, I disagree with you here, bbgae. While people are responsible for their own actions, lost boys included, if a society is producing an unusually large number of lost boys, I think there is something wrong with the society.
If parents won't bear with their children through the teenage years, the parents are somewhat responsible for what their children do.
Responsibility is a hierarchy, and responsibility is shared. No one can fail their offspring with impunity, for at the Bar of God the question is asked: Where are they, and why are they there?
God put them in our charge to give them life, and life eternal. Failing that, there's a devastating setback for the parents, unless their skirts are clean by having done all through continuous teaching and example to raise them right, never having broken that dedication. Then, they cannot be judged by others' transgressions.
Young spirits come to each family that must be tried seven times as gold, so no matter how dedicated you are, those spirit must be tried and developed by trial. Perfect dedication just clears your own skirts and your way to the ascent, beyond the skirt of the veil.
Every scripture and every soul is weighed in the balance, according to the law they've received.
IMHO- parents are responsible for their children when they are young. They are responsible for the way their children see themselves and see the world. They are responsible for what their children learn until the children are old enough to think for themselves. But at some point the parents have to realize that their children are free-thinking adults capable of making important decisions in their own and other's lives and fully comprehending the consequenses of those decisions. When that point is reached (an it isn't always at age 18), that is when the article of faith I quoted comes into play.
Most, if not all of the lost boys are teenagers. The teen-age years are hard in more ways than one. The part I refer to is the transition process from being a child parents are responsible for to being a responsible adult. The lost boys may be capable of a great many things, but I believe most of them are not FULLY capable of taking care of themselves.
I agree with you that the parents and the society are responsible for this. I also agree that there is something wrong with the society that produces lost boys.
However, I do happen to personally know one of the lost boys. He is my brother-in-law. He simply didn't want to obey any longer and moved out of his father's house when he was nineteen. He had a GED and a steady job at the time. I honestly believe he left because he wanted to. I do not think he, at least, of the lost boys can blame his choice on society. And, I have to say I am glad he made the choice he made at the time he made it. And, yes, he IS a lost boy. He was in the picture of the lost boys that was taken on the steps.
I agree with you that the parents and the society are responsible for this. I also agree that there is something wrong with the society that produces lost boys.
Street's Reply: Yut,yut,here's the society and the demon who produces lost boys:
"Another parable put He forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seen in his field (flds). But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way (LDS and government plants and programs)...
Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? From whense then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this"...(Mt.13:24-28).
"Think not that I am come to send peace on the earth...A man's foes shall be they of his own household"...He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward(Mt.10:34, 41).
I am one of the lost boy, one of the earlier ones:
"Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost. I say unto you that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner THAT REPENTETH, more than over ninety and nine just persons which need no repentance (Luke 15:6-7).
I can count at least 50, and I'm onthestreet, not knowing all the others that I have heard of. There, it is repenting with him.
There are many indeed who are critical and have evil in their hearts, such as yourself, and therefore they have not repented, for such are from beneath and have no claim on the Holy Spirit. Thus, they remain cast off, and the children, from generation to generation, until they repent and come unto him with a broken heart and a contrite spirit (Ps.34:18, Is.57:15).
Fred Jessop was kicked and got back in Ladell Bistline was kicked and now lives in the trailer park with no wives or family. Truman Barlow was kicked and I see him driving around town. I think he lives here.
That's Three- but the problem is that they are outcasts. Not accepted by the community and not talked to or cared about because they (flds) might get dobbed. But they feel like they are IN because they have permission to come live in town. Class warfare is BIG, because those who have family members in compounds are better than the rest of the town. And those who have girls married to Warren are even better than the other best because of their connection to the prophet. And now there is even more because of William Timpson Jessop and his family and relatives have been elevated.
But me I have been lifted up and OUT and I am happy to have made the choice to take responsiblity for myself.
bbgae said... Yes Street, you are right. I think for myself. Therefore, there is evil in my heart. 1/29/2008 9:32 AM
No Thought
"Take no thought for thy life..." (Mt.6:25). "Take no thought how or what ye shall speak..." (Mt.10:19). Yes, woman is Eve or Evil. It is the same root.
1. The brain is matter (brain matter), and the Gods have brains to crown and to exercise mind over matter. So, if you're "thinking for yourself", you're concerning yourself with gross matter to sustain you with, instead of "giving no thought beforehand, but applying mind, faith, and power over matter. Then, you are sustained from the mana and the powers of heaven.
2. Same reason, women for a crown, to turn evil into good, through the goodness of a father, and the mark of a god ("None good but the father", if you believe Christ and are not antichrist). A woman is the crown of her husband, even as Mary applied the crown of her hair to Jesus' feet.
Street- So.... you not only surround yourself with multitudes of "evil", you crown yourself with it as well.
But since your "evil" is of God it is good.
Everything in the world is of God. So if I applied your logic to the rest of the world that would mean everything everyone does is good because they are of God.
bbgae said... Street- So.... you not only surround yourself with multitudes of "evil", you crown yourself with it as well. But since your "evil" is of God it is good. Everything in the world is of God. So if I applied your logic to the rest of the world that would mean everything everyone does is good because they are of God. 2/01/2008 10:49 AM
Bbgae, both good and evil proceed from the fall, and thus the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, vs the Tree of Life. So God Himself was surrounded with evil, even before the fall, in anticipation of the fall, where good and evil presented themselves in heaven to answer the question: “Who shall I send to redeem these my children in this new world of mine”. Evil had raised its head, because they had been exalted to the heavens through covenant marriage, an eternal coverant, and then fell away from their prophet and their God. Therefore, the covenant being eternal, they were celestialized, but only as devils.
YOU SAY: “So.... you not only surround yourself with multitudes of "evil" (wives), you crown yourself with it as well”. Yes, evil surrounds us. This is why we are here, to conquer and become as the gods. Then with saints and with Gods alike, evil is cast into its own place, and the crown is above the good and the evil: K:Crown, C:Good, B:Evil. Do you see it? Spirit, Father, Mother (Grace, Good, and Evil). Adam is the cosmic mother of creation (evil), Christ the cosmic father, (good), and Enoch the One Flesh engulfed in the eternal burnings of the Tree of Life. Below this Trinity is Knowledge (Daat) of their Good and Evil. They are the fathers of us all, good and evil, but only to lift us up by our hair, to wash their feet and kiss their…cheek, if we can make it that high.
When Mary washed His feet with her crown, it was the law of sacrifice, or the ordinance of subservience, the woman or church submitting her all (from her crown to her feet), to His feet, for she (the church) cannot go higher than His feet until she fulfills that law of sacrifice of the gross or brazen altar. Then the laver, the door, the sanctuary, the incense, the testimony, the cherubim, and finally the light that engulfs them, which is the grace of the spirit.
YOU SAY: “So if I applied your logic to the rest of the world that would mean everything everyone does is good because they are of God”. ANSWER: The evil in the world is potentially good, because they are of God. That is their potential, the strings of energy radiating from Christ as life-force giving, us the potential to become like Him, by conquering the evil that surrounds us by design. Adam heads up the column of Boaz, the evil side or left hand of God, as the cosmic mother, with Eve (Eve-l).
I was curious - when did God abolish the 10 Commandments? Just think if somemone would have asked Joseph Smith that question as he went from town to town gathering women (young as well as already married ones), maybe more people would walk in Truth today! He died avoiding punishment (jumping from the jail house window) for destroying printing presses at a local newspaper office where they were publishing stories warning the locals of his evil lustful devices.
62 comments:
Daughter Kathy Jo had been interviewed alot the last year by print and Television media.
The family still is hurting over the "accidental" death of her brother an expert climber.
Oh c'mon!
No body had an untimely death from the Nickelson family because their daughter Kathy Jo was on tv!
Caroline is in the spotlight currently. Do you think there will be a few Jessop or Blackmore deaths now?
It's called: "The wicked flee when no man persueth".
bbgae read my post again.
Johnny Nickelson died in a repelling accident outside of Colorado City in 2004 Pioneer Day.
Sorry, but the investigation left more questions than answers.
Also, rumor how did Mr. Nickelson, Sr. die? Natural or accident?
He had several daughters married into the Jeffs clan.
And as for Caroline or Carolyn Jessop there is no connection.
Street very good quote. I guess you speak from experience.
kathy jo nickolson story
http://www.glamour.com/news/articles/2007/06/polygamy?
7:35-
I apologize.
Since I have misinterpreted your post, would you be so kind as to elaborate on the incinents surrounding the boy's death so that I might understand?
When and where did he die? Who investigated and why? Are there links to newspaper articles?
8:16-
Thank you for Kathy Jo's story. As I was reading it, I couldn't help but to wonder if my life would have followed a similar path if I had but just summoned the courage to approach the man I was in love with and left the religion with him instead of allowing myself to be "married" to my first husband.
Kathy Jo should be proud of all she has achieved and all the obstacles she overcame to find personal happiness and quality of life.
I found out that he died of Pnuemonia. Lots of liquid in his lungs.
Kathy Jo isnt the only one in the world that has had struggles, so its not like shes so amazing.
Street very good quote. I guess you speak from experience.
1/04/2008 7:35 AM
REPLY:
“The wicked flee when no man pursueth” (Prov.28:1). Me, speaking from experience? Well, first I must say that I am the most wicked man since Adam, so that would fit. If the Prophet can say that, it is infinitely true of any other man on this planet. But the train of thought in the dialog is not on me. Bbgae (1/03/3:47 PM) is talking about the paranoia of enemies of the Church asserting that because they are enemies of the Church or of God, that their lives are automatically compromised. They certainly are, but not by the Church. They are compromised by themselves, thus subjecting themselves to the enemy of the soul, of body, mind, and soul.
As for that class of citizens living in the greatest of love and of unity and productivity on the Texas plains near Eldorado, and their counterpart in Short Creek, I guess their enemies can try to interpret the pursuit of federal and state law enforcement officers as no man pursuing, and therefore if they flee they are wicked, just as Christ fled 36-year old Herod the Great (Matt.2:13), and later fled Herod Archelaus’ officers (Matt.2:22), and spent most of his life in Galilee. After his crucifixion, even the women fled from the sepulcher (Mark 16:18). Were any such persons wicked because they fled, or because they feared no man nor his law, but rather feared God? So what happened. Herod, being the wicked one, was banished in 6AD, just two years after succeeding his father as king of Judea.
Christ and His prophets in all ages of the earth flee when the wicked rule. “Fools go where angels fear to tread”, but “the prosperity of fools shall destroy them”, saith the Lord (Prov.1:32). After Christ’s arrest, “all the disciples forsook Him and fled” (Matt.26:56). The fleeing of the righteous, those who fear God and His Law, is not for cowardice, but for wisdom and continued peace. No, it is not the fleeing, nor defying of man’s law that makes one wicked, but the fearing of man and rejecting God that makes man evil and fallen and without hope, as social and political and economic upheavals come to pass.
8:26-
No, Kathy Jo isn't the only one of us out here. She's not the only ex-FLDS that's had struggles. But, yes, she is amazing. We all are.
Street,
Another well written post! You are on a roll!
I did have a question that perhaps you have a logical answer for.
We, referring to the FLDS, have seen a lot of the men and families move out of Short Creek for Texas and other areas. Warren has become discouraged with this area, condemned and forsook it. With that happening, how can the former promises of earlier prophets regarding Short Creek be fulfilled? Also, who was uncle Roy referring to when he said "those who have apostisized will get discouraged and leave." It would appear that only the half hearted and “apostates” are the ones who are here.
Street-
I respect you, I do.
Most of the time I skip over your spycho babble epistles with a live and let live attitude.
However- DO NOT ATTEMPT to interpret my posts for others. I do not care how you take them or how anyone else takes what I have to say, but do not post the meanings of my posts, please.
I speak plainly and I mean what I say. There is no need for interpretation from you or anyone.
If someone wants me to explain or elaborate on what I say, all they have to do is ask me and I will answer. I DO NOT need you to speak for me.
I am perfectly capable of that all by myself.
Does anyone know what happened to the Share the Light blog? Did it disolve, or move?
Anonymous Said (1/08/2008 12:46 PM)
We, referring to the FLDS, have seen a lot of the men and families move out of Short Creek for Texas and other areas. Warren has become discouraged with this area, condemned and forsook it. With that happening, how can the former promises of earlier prophets regarding Short Creek be fulfilled? Also, who was uncle Roy referring to when he said "those who have apostisized will get discouraged and leave." It would appear that only the half hearted and “apostates” are the ones who are here.
__________________________________
REPLY:
First, anyone nowadays saying they're FLDS cannot be true if they are not united with the Prophet. Why? Because unity is "Fundamentalist".
Second, prefacing a prophecy about discouragement with a suggestion that one got discouraged, in order to give the appearance that they fulfill that prophecy doesn't make it so. Christ also "got discouraged" with the Jews AND LEFT, moved to Galilee. So is Christ now among the wicked, because "He could perform no miracles there because of unbelief"? Do you see the folly of such presumption and assersion?
Third, promises never did equate to fulfillment in the history of the Gospel of Christ. What does the Lord say about covenant breakers, after receiving such grand promises? "Ye have no promise". Every Priesthood promise in heaven and on the earth is predicated upon faith and faithfulness. If the Prophet hid his face from there, as Christ did from Jerusalem, it is because of their unbelief, due to their rejection of his word regarding immorality and coming out of the world, and offering up your sacrifices for the Work of the Lord, or any other righteous word that came to you from that man.
Fourth, the prophecy of LeRoy Johnson that the apostate would get discouraged and leave has come to pass, and continues to come to pass to this day. Even today, men are leaving the man. He was talking about leaving the Priesthood and the spirit that moves him forward, not about glomming on or rejecting a piece of dirt, a tiny plot of land. The work of Zion will fill the earth, so the Priesthood will likewise move forward and cover the earth, just as Brigham moved the saints from Joseph's beloved Nauvoo. The Sabboth or the Work and Word of the Priesthood was made for man. Man was not made for the Sabboth or the Work or Word of the Priesthood, or for any earthly place. Zion glitters the sky, and it is an expanding universe. The Prophet is moving forward, regardless of the dirt or the shackles that they place upon him.
The dogs will bark, but the caravan moves on.
Street
bbgae (1/08/2008 3:19 PM):
I will give my beliefs and interpretations, and even chastise, as I see fit, just as you are now interpreting my post of your post, and chastising me.
Me Goose, You Gander
Ok, Street,
Peace.
Street how far will you follow Warren? Knowing he has admitted to molestation of is sister and his own daughter?
And that he has by his own words said "I'm the most wicked man in this dispensation?" That he has said he is not "the prophet" and never was.
When the wicked rule the people morn. How much more morning must be done before the FLDS wake up?
Quote from Street...
"We believe in worshipping God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may”.
That is one of the FLDS Church’s Articles of Faith, and by casting out so many, the Prophet obeyed his faith and put it into practice, allowing all others to worship how they may, apart or afar, so that the faithful may do the same, worship how they may."
Does anyone else find this comment terribly funny?
how do I start a new topic? I've got important news to post.
Thanks!
1, they just think its a "test" to see if they will follow the "Prophet", because they have had it drilled in them that "God and the prophet do right."
1/09/2008 7:44 AM
Drills make for proficiency. Ask any army. They will DRILL its truth and veracity into you, and by judgment God will do the same.
Now, I am not a critic. I'm an admirer, to see you all coming along so finely, for with you it is certainly a test, that all may worship how, where, or what they may.
Here is more "Street Wisdom"
He call God a liar.
See, God Himself will speak lies through the Prophet, to deceive the wicked, because they receive not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause, GOD shall send them strong delusions, that they should believe a lie, that they may all be damned who believe not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. WHAT! The God of Truth will deceive man, even lie to him? Yes, if you believe the Word of God (2 Thess.2:3-12).
So Warren is the most wicked, and is not a prophet. There’s your lie to take you to your fate after 2012, that you may all be damned, and God Himself has contributed to the deception through the Prophet Warren Jeffs. “Cursed are all those that shall lift up their heel against mine anointed, saith the Lord, and cry they have sinned when they have not sinned before me, saith the Lord, but have done that which was meet in mine eyes, and which I commanded them. But those who cry transgression do it because they are the servants of sin, and are the children of disobedience themselves…a generation of vipers shall not escape the damnation of hell. Behold, mine eyes see and know all their works, and I have in reserve a swift judgment in the season thereof for them all. (D&C 121:16-24).
Street
Here is the scripture street is referring too.
2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness doth already work: only there is one that restraineth now, until he be taken out of the way.
2:8 And then shall be revealed the lawless one, whom the Lord Jesus shall slay with the breath of his mouth, and bring to nought by the manifestation of his coming;
2:9 even he, whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2:10 and with all deceit of unrighteousness for them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2:11 And for this cause God sendeth them a working of error, that they should believe a lie: 2:12 that they all might be judged who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2:14 whereunto he called you through our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2:15 So then, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye were taught, whether by word, or by epistle of ours.
2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,
2:17 comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
I dont know why you're being so defensive, i wasnt saying it in a rude way. I know what its like out there. I feel like i dont need someone to tell me what to believe and what not to believe, especially if its someone that has said they are the most wicked man on earth and confessed to molesting his daughter and sisters. I think the principal of the religion is awesome but it has gotten outta hand as time has gone on, its just my opinion.
Ross LeBaron & Incest Proven
A little background:
You may remember that Laurie (LeBaron) Allen is the producer & narrator of BANKING ON HEAVEN http://www.bankingonheaven.com/. Many of her reminicences that you hear in the film are about her experiences growing up in a polygamous cult. She was kidnapped at a young age by her uncle Ross W. LeBaron, Jr. and kept as a slave by Ross in Latin America until she escaped at age 16.
Laurie was alienated from Ross' family for the last 18 years, since they considered her an apostate. Although she helped raise many of the children in very harsh conditions (deserts & jungles), she was considered the black sheep. Laurie is currently completing a screenplay and a memoir about her experiences.
When Ross' wife Diana was diagnosed with cancer 2 years ago, Laurie was allowed back into their secret world. She has always suspected that her polygamous uncle Ross was fathering his own grandchildren, but nobody would listen.
"I talked to so many relatives about it," Laurie said, "but nobody
believed me." She finally convinced several members of the LeBaron family to join her in going to law enforcement with their concerns. More family members became involved, and the result is the explosive document you are about to read.
Dear Family Members,
We now know for a fact that members of our immediate family are involved in
incest. We have been suspicious for years, but believed that incest was
unlikely. However, new and disturbing evidence obligated us to find a
definitive answer; therefore, we conducted DNA testing.
The DNA test proved that our sister's son is without any doubt a product of
incest. His Y chromosome is exactly the same as ours. Given that other
children were born under equally suspicious circumstances, we assume that
these children are products of incest as well. Substantial evidence
indicates, and we are personally convinced, that our dad (Ross Wesley
LeBaron Jr), two of our brothers, and three of our sisters have engaged in
incestuous relations.
We recently confronted these members of our family and although they never
made any direct admissions of incestuous behavior, they did, in fact,
adamantly defend the practice. Also, through a number of statements made to
us, they confirmed our suspicions that our dad and oldest sister have been
engaging in an incestuous relationship for many years.
We tried through reason, logic and scientific research, to persuade them to
end their destructive beliefs and practice. Our efforts were to no avail.
We are left with public exposure as our best hope. We very much dislike
having to take actions against our family, but we believe it is absolutely
necessary to expose them and put an end to this outrageous, immoral, and
destructive conduct.
Our primary goal is to protect our youngest brother and sister, who are in
danger of eventually being compelled to participate in this heinous
lifestyle. It is our sincere hope that we can help and provide them with
the opportunity for a better life.
We hope and pray that our dad, brothers and sisters might come to understand
that their deluded and pernicious philosophy and belief system is simply
unnatural, genetically destructive and immoral, and that they will put an
end to the damage being done to their posterity.
With love sincerely,
Alaric C, LeBaron
David Uri LeBaron
Elend S, LeBaron
Zigzag-
Was that what you wanted to start a new thread on? Just click on the orange B (blogger) in the far upper left corner of this page and it will take you to blogger home page. You should be able to make a new post from there.
Do you have any other proof of the incest other than your retyped letter?
What does this have to do with John Nicholsons funeral?
I tried to figure out that posting thing too. I get the dashboard, but not the blog. Google doesn't make it easy to understand for some reason. There is everything in the help menu except how to join an existing blog and how to create a post.
Maybe it's because you have to be set up to create a thread by the blog admin?
Only regular contributors may start new threads. If you would like to register as a contributor, contact me by email at texaspolygamy@gmail.com
We are interested in knowing more about John Nicholson's funeral and/or death.
Was the funeral held in TX?
How did you hear about the funeral?
Thank you for your assistance,
Kathy Jo Nicholson
The funeral was held in Colorado City at the LSJ meeting house, with a large and beautiful gathering. I understand he has had cancer, and underwent an operation, which he came out of fine, but ended up with pnumonia...someone correct me if this is wrong. His wife gave a very interesting eulogy.
Tmuf
Did you attend the funeral? If so, I'd be grateful if you could email me at outofpolygamy@aol.com
I would like to know more about it. I'd also appreciate anything you can tell me. Did anyone post his obit? What was interesting about the eulogy and what was his wife's name?
Thanks,
Kathy Jo
Kathy Jo, why so much interest now? You have killed your father many times over with your actions hitherto, M. Barbara gave the Eulogy and very eloquently conveyed what a grand and wonderful and loyal man Uncle John was. He lived and died loyal and true. Which is more than can be said for you. (Sigma I am a Poet and you my friends did not know it)
Anon 8:15,
You don not have the right to tell Kathy that she killed her father many times over. It is NON of your business!! I dont blame Kathy for leaving, that religion is the biggest scam! Mind your own business!!
Anon-
You should know better than to make a jab at someone when they are grieving the loss of a family member even if you don't agree with her life choices.
Thank you for giving me more details about John Nicholson's death. I hold no grudge against you for your comment. Since I left the FLDS I have come to know what it means to love unconditionally. I will give that to my own children regardless of their choices. They are my greatest accomplishment. They will have a better life because I have made the right choice. My father knows this now.
Unfortunately there is a great price tag attached to freedom. It has cost me greatly, but what I have gained is priceless. I will never disown any member of my family. My door is always open to them. Carry on.
Peace,
Kathy Jo
We all came to obtain the experiences we are now obtaining. We are now obtaining the experiences that we came here to obtain. No animal is better than a human. No human better than an angel. We're all at the stage of life that we're at, and that's that. We each will create the karma and conditions that will give to each and all the preordained variety and events in this life that make up this world, for all to experience in our own way. We're all judged accordingly, and find our place and degree of being, high and low.
Whatever Kathy Jo, or anyone else, has done, or think that their kin has done or failed to do, we all have an ego to deal with, and have failed others in some way. Every parent must answer to the failures (or successes) of their offspring, even if they are saints who have lost some of their little ones.
If there is a God and he's really all that most of you say he is, he would punish me severely if I let one of my offspring seek out and join the flds...and I would deserve it.
I would like to be as open-minded as some of you and allow my kids the choice, but I will not allow my kids to go near the flds until they are old enough to understand how sick and wrong it is.
LTG
Street-
Every parent must answer to the failures (or successes) of their offspring, even if they are saints who have lost some of their little ones.
What happened to, "God will judge man for his own sins and not for Adam's transgressions"? One of the Articles of faith and still scripture.
Uh, I disagree with you here, bbgae. While people are responsible for their own actions, lost boys included, if a society is producing an unusually large number of lost boys, I think there is something wrong with the society.
If parents won't bear with their children through the teenage years, the parents are somewhat responsible for what their children do.
Responsibility is a hierarchy, and responsibility is shared. No one can fail their offspring with impunity, for at the Bar of God the question is asked: Where are they, and why are they there?
God put them in our charge to give them life, and life eternal. Failing that, there's a devastating setback for the parents, unless their skirts are clean by having done all through continuous teaching and example to raise them right, never having broken that dedication. Then, they cannot be judged by others' transgressions.
Young spirits come to each family that must be tried seven times as gold, so no matter how dedicated you are, those spirit must be tried and developed by trial. Perfect dedication just clears your own skirts and your way to the ascent, beyond the skirt of the veil.
Every scripture and every soul is weighed in the balance, according to the law they've received.
5:06-
I think you may be right.
IMHO- parents are responsible for their children when they are young. They are responsible for the way their children see themselves and see the world. They are responsible for what their children learn until the children are old enough to think for themselves. But at some point the parents have to realize that their children are free-thinking adults capable of making important decisions in their own and other's lives and fully comprehending the consequenses of those decisions. When that point is reached (an it isn't always at age 18), that is when the article of faith I quoted comes into play.
Most, if not all of the lost boys are teenagers. The teen-age years are hard in more ways than one. The part I refer to is the transition process from being a child parents are responsible for to being a responsible adult. The lost boys may be capable of a great many things, but I believe most of them are not FULLY capable of taking care of themselves.
I agree with you that the parents and the society are responsible for this. I also agree that there is something wrong with the society that produces lost boys.
However, I do happen to personally know one of the lost boys. He is my brother-in-law. He simply didn't want to obey any longer and moved out of his father's house when he was nineteen. He had a GED and a steady job at the time. I honestly believe he left because he wanted to. I do not think he, at least, of the lost boys can blame his choice on society. And, I have to say I am glad he made the choice he made at the time he made it. And, yes, he IS a lost boy. He was in the picture of the lost boys that was taken on the steps.
I agree with you that the parents and the society are responsible for this. I also agree that there is something wrong with the society that produces lost boys.
Street's Reply: Yut,yut,here's the society and the demon who produces lost boys:
"Another parable put He forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seen in his field (flds). But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way (LDS and government plants and programs)...
Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? From whense then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this"...(Mt.13:24-28).
"Think not that I am come to send peace on the earth...A man's foes shall be they of his own household"...He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward(Mt.10:34, 41).
I am one of the lost boy, one of the earlier ones:
"Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost. I say unto you that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner THAT REPENTETH, more than over ninety and nine just persons which need no repentance (Luke 15:6-7).
"Dear To The Heart Of The Shepherd..."
Sure, Street, but when has Warren let ANYONE back who had "repented"? He kicks them out to be rid of them. There is no repenting to him.
I can count at least 50, and I'm onthestreet, not knowing all the others that I have heard of. There, it is repenting with him.
There are many indeed who are critical and have evil in their hearts, such as yourself, and therefore they have not repented, for such are from beneath and have no claim on the Holy Spirit. Thus, they remain cast off, and the children, from generation to generation, until they repent and come unto him with a broken heart and a contrite spirit (Ps.34:18, Is.57:15).
Yes Street, you are right. I think for myself. Therefore, there is evil in my heart.
Fred Jessop was kicked and got back in
Ladell Bistline was kicked and now lives in the trailer park with no wives or family.
Truman Barlow was kicked and I see him driving around town. I think he lives here.
That's Three- but the problem is that they are outcasts. Not accepted by the community and not talked to or cared about because they (flds) might get dobbed. But they feel like they are IN because they have permission to come live in town.
Class warfare is BIG, because those who have family members in compounds are better than the rest of the town. And those who have girls married to Warren are even better than the other best because of their connection to the prophet. And now there is even more because of William Timpson Jessop and his family and relatives have been elevated.
But me I have been lifted up and OUT and I am happy to have made the choice to take responsiblity for myself.
bbgae said...
Yes Street, you are right. I think for myself. Therefore, there is evil in my heart.
1/29/2008 9:32 AM
No Thought
"Take no thought for thy life..." (Mt.6:25). "Take no thought how or what ye shall speak..." (Mt.10:19). Yes, woman is Eve or Evil. It is the same root.
"Be ye still, and know that I am God" (Ps.46:10).
This is why they need knights in their nights that shine with armour, see? Then you will see.
Two questions, Street:
1- If we were meant to "think not" why did God give us brains and intelligence? how wasteful!
2-If women are evil, why do you surround yourself with them- even more evil (women) for you than the average man?
1/30/2008 6:03 PM
Ahh,
1. The brain is matter (brain matter), and the Gods have brains to crown and to exercise mind over matter. So, if you're "thinking for yourself", you're concerning yourself with gross matter to sustain you with, instead of "giving no thought beforehand, but applying mind, faith, and power over matter. Then, you are sustained from the mana and the powers of heaven.
2. Same reason, women for a crown, to turn evil into good, through the goodness of a father, and the mark of a god ("None good but the father", if you believe Christ and are not antichrist). A woman is the crown of her husband, even as Mary applied the crown of her hair to Jesus' feet.
Street
god is love....love is blind....stevie wonder is blind and therfore, he is god
Ahh, but we all are certainly OF God, and have God in us. See, so the analogy holds true.
Street-
So.... you not only surround yourself with multitudes of "evil", you crown yourself with it as well.
But since your "evil" is of God it is good.
Everything in the world is of God. So if I applied your logic to the rest of the world that would mean everything everyone does is good because they are of God.
bbgae said... Street-
So.... you not only surround yourself with multitudes of "evil", you crown yourself with it as well.
But since your "evil" is of God it is good.
Everything in the world is of God. So if I applied your logic to the rest of the world that would mean everything everyone does is good because they are of God.
2/01/2008 10:49 AM
Bbgae, both good and evil proceed from the fall, and thus the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, vs the Tree of Life. So God Himself was surrounded with evil, even before the fall, in anticipation of the fall, where good and evil presented themselves in heaven to answer the question: “Who shall I send to redeem these my children in this new world of mine”. Evil had raised its head, because they had been exalted to the heavens through covenant marriage, an eternal coverant, and then fell away from their prophet and their God. Therefore, the covenant being eternal, they were celestialized, but only as devils.
YOU SAY: “So.... you not only surround yourself with multitudes of "evil" (wives), you crown yourself with it as well”. Yes, evil surrounds us. This is why we are here, to conquer and become as the gods. Then with saints and with Gods alike, evil is cast into its own place, and the crown is above the good and the evil: K:Crown, C:Good, B:Evil. Do you see it? Spirit, Father, Mother (Grace, Good, and Evil). Adam is the cosmic mother of creation (evil), Christ the cosmic father, (good), and Enoch the One Flesh engulfed in the eternal burnings of the Tree of Life. Below this Trinity is Knowledge (Daat) of their Good and Evil. They are the fathers of us all, good and evil, but only to lift us up by our hair, to wash their feet and kiss their…cheek, if we can make it that high.
When Mary washed His feet with her crown, it was the law of sacrifice, or the ordinance of subservience, the woman or church submitting her all (from her crown to her feet), to His feet, for she (the church) cannot go higher than His feet until she fulfills that law of sacrifice of the gross or brazen altar. Then the laver, the door, the sanctuary, the incense, the testimony, the cherubim, and finally the light that engulfs them, which is the grace of the spirit.
YOU SAY: “So if I applied your logic to the rest of the world that would mean everything everyone does is good because they are of God”. ANSWER: The evil in the world is potentially good, because they are of God. That is their potential, the strings of energy radiating from Christ as life-force giving, us the potential to become like Him, by conquering the evil that surrounds us by design. Adam heads up the column of Boaz, the evil side or left hand of God, as the cosmic mother, with Eve (Eve-l).
Street
Did any of you attend the funeral of Barbara Nicholson, first wife of John Nicholson? Would you post any details for me please.
www.beyondthereach.com
www.beyondthereach.com
Death in the FLDS and a search for answers....
I was curious - when did God abolish the 10 Commandments?
Just think if somemone would have asked Joseph Smith that question as he went from town to town gathering women
(young as well as already married ones),
maybe more people
would walk in Truth today!
He died avoiding punishment (jumping from the jail house window) for destroying printing presses
at a local newspaper office
where they were publishing stories warning the locals
of his evil lustful devices.
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