Sunday, December 24, 2006

Merry Christmas

I just wanted to let you all know how much I have enjoyed our sharing and debating over the past couple years. As you know I can get my 'prickles and stings' a rolling (which is not necessarily a good thing).

I do want you guys to know that I have learned from you, and I respect you. I came in here with my strong opinions, and you guys have CHANGED them - which is by no means an easy thing to do.

I learned about your religions, and I learned about myself. It might seem rather silly to wax nostalgic on a blog, but it has been a good year. Every person who came on this blog and shared and every arrow laden debate have all been something I look forward to. If I didn't respect you guys, it wouldn't make this nearly so interesting.

I can't wait to see how TBM, FTTC, Faithful, Furnace, and a myriad of others have to say about a certain topic. I wonder what will happen to warren, but mostly - what I want is for each and every soul out there to be able to find their own life. No matter what they choose, I want them to choose it. I hope that all children will not be confronted with life long decisions in their youth.

So Merry Christmas, and thank you for sharing part of yourself with me.


fttc said...

Bah! Humbug!

Not!! I was only trying to turn a nostalgic thread into a debate.

I too have enjoyed the dialogue and want to wish all a very Merry Holiday. The exchanges on here have had the effect of introspection on my part. It has opened my mind and broadened my perspective. While my opinions have been changed in regard to those outside my religion and culture I can only say participating on here has strengthened my resolve to stand by my principles. Atar, Muggs, stg, TBM and a host of other (even many anonymous) souls have all contributed to my enjoyment here.

A toast to one and all! May your lives be blessed in your pursuit of freedom and happiness.

muggsey said...


I thank you in regard to fluctuation of opinion while standing by principle. I have a better understanding of just how strong the tie between the mormon priesthood and the daily activities of the people of LDS and FLDS. While I can not agree with your doctrine, I do respect the familial togetherness you continue to exhibit. The unquestioning devotion to a human prophet however, really divides our points of view.

I have been able to note too that like many of us so called main line Christians, who beieve the statement of Jesus, "You must be born again", I am not alone in my stance. There are many of you who are just as firm in your convictions as I am in mine.

If that makes me "bull headed" then you can presume that you fit the same mold.

The chance to stand firm in my belief and question the beliefs of the mormon faith has given me the challenge to really dig into the Bible in order to find answers to support beliefs or to refute that which opposes Bilblical teaching.

I congratulate you for your spirit of never say quit, but will continue to try to assist you into the knowledge of Faith leading to salvation only obtainable through the Grace of GOD, as provided by the shed blood of Jesus Christ. Jesus became SIN. The blameless, perfect GOD, in a human body, died that I might gain freedom from the punishment of sin, eternal separation from God's presence.

If I were to attempt to make a list of 'good works' for the purpose of salvation, you would, in all probability, jump at the chance but, the idea that God is the author and finisher of our faith is a foreign concept. I can't save me. I can never be good enough. I can't save you, only faith in Jesus can. I can't condem you, only you can do that. Trusting the Grace of God is a personal choice.

My wish for you is a joyous celebration of the birth of the Christ Child. It is Jesus whom I celebrate, not Santa Claus, Rudolph, Frosty, elves, yule logs, holly and/or ivy or any of the trapings associated with those temporal things designed specifically for the purpose of taking our mind and heart away from the real purpose of Christ's birth. I don't think that Jesus was necessarly born on December 25. The specific date really doesn't make any difference. My celebration is in honor of the birth of the Christ, not football, pumpkin pie and roast turkey. Had Jesus not been born, where would our salvation be? Had He not been born, how could He have died for my sin? Had He not died, I would be lost. But, thank GOD, HE gave HIS LIFE as attonement for my sin and thereby justified me by HIS holiness through HIS SHED BLOOD.

ATAR_i said...

Merry Christmas Muggsy - as always - I enjoy you!

Joseph Rohbock said...

Merry Christmas everyone. I agree with you so much Atari, when you said that you want everyone to find their own life and live it. Whatever choice anyone makes, let them live that choice and reap the rewards or consequences that choice brings to them. I could never have imagined how happy my beautiful wife and little daughter have made me. And I don't regret leaving the FLDS one bit. I haven't regretted it for one minute since I left. So, to each their own, but at the same time, universally, I wish everyone joy and happiness in their own individual lives.

On a side note. I am going in for surgery on Thursday December 28th. They are going to fuse the bottom three levels of my spine together. I will be in the hospital for a week or so. I would really appreciate your faith and prayers regardless of what faith you believe in. I believe God hears all our prayers.

Once again, MERRY CHRISTMAS, and HAPPY NEW YEAR to everyone. Thanks for putting up with me.

Anonymous said...

Thanks atar_i. I'd like to wish you and yours well these holidays.

Muggs, thanks for turning this into an infomercial on New Born Christianity. Well done. We would expect nothing less from you. I'm not trying to ellicit a response from you so be quiet. :)


TBM said...

I left a brief post on another thread before I left, but I guess this thread hadn't been posted yet. But I hope you all had a good Christmas, and are refreshed and ready for another year's deliberating, debating, and proving everyone else wrong (that's my favorite bit!) :-)

For my part, I think what I get most out of it all, is that when you discuss your beliefs with a sympathetic audience, they're much less likely to expose the weaknesses and fallacies of your logic. You all make me think about what I believe and why, in a way that I've never really had to do before.

It seems that in the last couple of months, much of the totally unecessary insolence and vitriol that chracterized a lot of comments seems to have gone. Now, for the most part, people bitch each another out relatively courteously. I don't know if this is because of admin's screening, or it just means that Street was setting a bad lead. But it's much nicer this way.

muggsey said...


There is no need for you to thank me for my "born again" status. When I came first to this blog I was a "born again" Christian. Jesus Christ is my Savior and King. I still am, Thanks Be to God, born again. My salvation is because of Him, not for anything I have done, can do, or am doing. That is the simplicity of my message. It is unchanging, as is the Lord is unchanging. Nice try PB, but you see I'm not concerned about eternity. I am safely in Jesus' hands and thus safely in the Father's hands. My salvation was not earned nor deserved. Salvation is a gift of God, to those who believe, according to HIS WORD.

See John 10:25-30

muggsey said...


Banter is what it's all about. If we can't get a little hot under the collar and express our differences as gentlemen, we should not post. Keep up the heated exchanges. I have the hide of an elephant, or alligator, which ever is toughest.:) (I am so smart. I found reference to the :), :'( etc. in my Windows XP handbook. Good show. I've only had this computer four years. It's about time I learned how to operate the thing.

TBM said...

Muggs: You have an XP handbook? I'm sure I did once, but it's gone now. Probably spirited away by the same evil troll that steals one of every pair of socks from the washing machine, leaving the other behind to taunt you.

muggsey said...

So, it appears as if the same troll has residence in both our homes. I have Windows XP Simplified & Windows XP for Dummies. They are both above my level of expertise.

Now if I just remember where I put that file........

ATAR_i said...


That's along surgery, and a pretty intense one at that. I hope all goes well. What happened to your back in the first place.

TBM - LOL about the 'courteous bitchiness' comment - LOVE IT! Can you still be an LDS elder and say the word bitch?

: )


Anonymous said...

Of course you can, if your referring to someone who isn't LDS!

Anonymous said...

My prayers are with you Joseph.God bless.

ATAR_i said...

So, if you're LDS, you can say the word bitch, you can even be a bitch, but you just can't refer to anyone who is LDS as a bitch.

Joseph Rohbock said...

Hey, everyone. Thanks for the support. I'm alive, but not well yet. The surgery went well. Was in the hospital for four days. Had to spend my first anniversary in a hospital bed, but I'm grateful to be alive. Have to take it easy, not do anything, for six weeks now. I was in a head on car accident in CC in 2003. My back has been messed up since then. A work related accident finished it off this last June. I had two other surgeries in August, and now this is supposed to be the final one. If this doesn't fix it, then nothing will. Anyway, thanks to all who prayed.

ATAR_i said...

So, what sort of spinal surgery did you have, discectomy, fusion, or something else?

I hope your nerves settle down, and your muscles relax, back pain is a bear. Back surgery has such potential - I will send my prayers your way.

Joseph Rohbock said...

The first two were diskectomies. This last one was a fusion. They fused the bottom three vertebrate together.


annonymousofficegirl said...

Hey, Jo-Ro. I'm glad your surgery went well, Hope you feel better soon. I'd like to get back in touch with you if you want. You can e-mail me at
Talk to you later.

ATAR_i said...

My daughter is playing Sims, a strategic life simulation of the day-to-day activities of one or more virtual people (dubbed "Sims") in a suburban household. It's a computer game. Currently she has four men married to one woman.

If you've ever played the game, you have to take care of all the needs of the people in the game. Fun, Hygeine, Social, Energy, Hunger and Bladder are the areas that you have to try and keep the people happy/positive in.

All of the men married to her woman are doing poorly in the social area. I got a huge charge out of that. She can't seem to make them positive. Of course the woman is doing great in the social area.

I've been giggling to myself all afternoon - as my daughter desperately tries to make the family work (it was her idea). She has decided to build a new house - the master bedroom has four beds - it's just not working.

TBM said...

I'm a fan of SimCity, but I've never played The Sims. Not sure why -- I've just never gotten around to buying it, although I've been planning to for several years. What I've seen of it, it looks a hoot! I'd love to have a go at a polygamous family, so your post is encouraging me.

My wife will hate you. She calls herself "a SimCity widow" as it is!!!!!

Anonymous said...

So I take it none of parents take thier children to see Santa Claus at the mall in ST George. What about Christmas trees & stockings, etc? Do families exchange gifts, even homemade ones maybe?

ATAR_i said...

Well, my daughter is now up to 7 husbands, and states her female can not have any more - 8 is the limit.

Hey - even fake simulation games have their marital lines in the sand...he he he.

How can she be a widow if you don't play?

TBM said...

And the Sims have other uses too. Music videos for example:

TBM said...