Sunday, August 27, 2006

Media Gets it Wrong Again

Here's an article from the Deseret Morning News about polygamy in Colorado City:,1249,645196473,00.html

As is typical with the media, half of the information is wrong. But half is true.


Anonymous said...

Which half was right?

Anonymous said...

"Variety," which said "more agitprop (agitational propaganda) than balanced reportage, this somewhat amateurish feature nonetheless has more than enough shocking allegations to grab the attention."

This half of it is true.

Digital Dig said...

This is the first post I have made on this site. I have spent the last couple of hours looking it over.

The organizations that oppose polygamy itself, beyond emotionalism, have weak arguments and will eventually lose in their intention of prosecution. It is almost a moot point.

The arguments over "authority from god seem senseless". Every man and women ought to have the right to worship God according to his or her own conscience. Men and women ought to have the right to gather into societies in agreement with others to foster the decisions of their own conscience.

There exist two separte and distinct issues in this Warren Jeffs matter.

The first is that there is an alledged criminal abuse by a man in taking advantage of young girls and boys in a sexual manner. This is statutory rape. In our current messed up civil law system he is to be tried in court for his crimes. To claim to be above the current civil law system in respect to his matters of conscience in ecclesiastical affairs would be absurd since obviously he has participated tooth and toenail in in that civil system for monetary gain and other legalistic benefit.

All of this has nothing to do with polygamy directly. The distinction is crucial. The right for people to engage in polygamy, for whatever reason they choose, cannot be disputed as it will never be proved that consenting adults so engaged of their own free will and choice constitutes a damage to others.

The second issue, which is the real issue, is the right of self determination or sovereignty. These so called "cults" continue in the beleif that they have the right to govern themselves according to what they believe is the real civil law given by God. However they variously access that is largely the basis of attack against them. So the real contest is between these "antiquidated" societies and the Supreme Court of the US government.

They will keep us arguing over the sensationalized issue of polygamy, using the Warren Jeffs alledged abuses as an excuse to legalize and then control polygamy. It is not of their business. It is an inalienable right. If we consign ourselves to be regulated in matters of conscience by the state, then how can we in conscience expect the participation of God in our affairs. The right for people to govern themselves in liberty is only Godly proposition that God ever has or will participate with.

The question that remains for us is can we govern ourselves without criminal abuse, without doing damage to each other. If so, the State and Federal government should have not business in our affairs.

The Federal and State government are not interested in the sexual and moral abuses though they will use all they can to promote what they are after. They are after control, political and economic and have been almost entirely successful in that endeaver. Now they will play the board until they have full control of what is likely the last vestiges of those who intend to maintain their liberty and have some idea of what that consists of.

I beleive that perhaps the most effective means of victory in this ongoing battle is for folks to gain a true understanding of how liberty in law proceeds. It appears sufficient knowledge is lacking.

If the government will decriminalize polygamy it would be a victory for the rights of all men. They will never do that. They will eventually legalize polygamy and that will be entirely a blow to what liberty in law is really about.

Anonymous said...

I like that 11:17
hits the nail right on the head.

Anonymous said...

Her's a link for newspaper that published article: Article on "Banking on Heaven"

IMO the poster Anon 1:12PM makes a good artgument, but failes to address issue of fact that human reproduce equal nembers of males & females, which creates the "lost boy" problem of creating multiple females for one man, there are not enough females to go around. In primative tribal societies where warfare & hunting accidents reduces the number of males, polygamy works, but in modern society, fails because there are not enough females to go around.

As to subject of government ruling on subject, it's the law. My personal opinion what consenting adults do in privacy of their homes is their business, but many of these polygamy religous groups tend to involve problems with underaged girls.

The last I heard was it that the FLDS, Kingstons, LeBaron and independents like Green, Mitchell & Barzee. have been having problems with LE, those groups that have involved underaged girls. LE seems to be leaving those who involve adults alone.

But in the end POLYGAMY CAN'T WORK unless there are more females than males. In modern society that dosen't exist.

Anonymous said...

So, begging the initial question... What did the media get wrong in this case?

Digital Dig said...

Happily I will address the problem of equal number of males and females. The answer is implied in what I have written.

The presupposition is that if their are equal number of males and females than some sort of exterior control must be imposed to see to it that an non polygamous solution is imposed to acheive some sort of fairness or balance.

If this balance is to be acheived should individual choice be abbrogated. If there ten men and ten women on a desert island, who will decide that the last woman must marry the last man. If she beleives in polygamy and so does another man, then who can force the woman to marry the last man. Which brilliant reformer out there is going to take away the right of people to choose.

If superior men attract women and no compulsion is used, it simply is no ones business, no matter the logistics

The other side of the question is that balance will always be acheived when people learn to take responsibility for their lives and not let big brother dictate. If polygamy does not work well when gender is equal in numbers, then allow the people to self correct the situation through education, attraction, influence, not force.

Also, should I make personal decisions for my life based on what I think will work for every one else? The only certainty I see is that when people are self governing, educated, and subscribe to true moral law things will just get better.

giz2gaz said...

Digital Dig said...
This is the first post I have made on this site. I have spent the last couple of hours looking it over.

WTF? This person argues in the mst circular logic I've ever seen. Only Street could outdo this insane arguement!

Digital Dig said...

Do I understand how this site works. If you cannot answer or do not like a response, you trash the comment and attack the person. Well, ok then, but it departing let me say that logic alone will not suffice to answer all these hypothetical questions. Only when men come to the point that they are truly willing to obey their Creator, and lives as he directs, will the true meaning of things be seen. There are countless incidences in the Word of God that will not make logical sense. This point is clear though. God intends that men have the right to choose for themselves. If their choices damage innocent others they do not the will of God. If their choices damage no one then they must be free to follow their conscience. The evil that exists is that men, based on logical arguments, will force their will on others. The reason the current insidious and forceful government can exist is because the populace is slavish enough to allow themselves to be thusly controlled. The point is that we all will allow the government to legislate for others what we suppose is right. We are willing to force others, through government, to create a society based on our own preferences. The fact is that the only society that has ever worked well are polygamous societies though modern historians have misrepresented that fact.

In a society where men and women were balanced in number, women may choose to marry the best choices they could find polygamously. That would leave men without wives. You think that would not work? That is the only thing that works because then all men would seek to become the most charming and superior creatures. As is, men are failry becoming degenerate in a slave monogomous society. I wander what really works?

There are plenty of religious arguments, there is ample evidence in history, to validate polygamy as the system that works. For now I stay on this simple premise that each must be free to choose according to the dictates of his conscience and that is most sacred of all.

Excuse me for barging into this discussion that really was other subject matter, Now I have to find the right place for my great ideas heh heh

Just let people be free to choose for themselves and get logic out of the reasons people find to force thier solutions on others.

ATAR_i said...

We do not usually 'trash', but I myself am guilty of it, especially with certain individuals.

I think OTS is the exception to my normal posting etiquette. It's not that I disagree with him. I disagree, and yet respect a great many folks on this board.

OTS has been so vulgar, sexual, disgusting, and egotistically spiritual as well as monumentall confused that he usually illicits strong responses. Myself included.

I cannot speak for others, but generally I try to ask questions, and give rational, (sometimes strong) responses.

Anonymous said...

Media got it right this time. WARREN CAUGHT!

Anonymous said...

these people are sick and twisted

Anonymous said...

we need to stop old fat ugly guys who are cowards and lack social skills from messing up childrens lives we live in a sick sick world god save us

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 8/30/2006 10:09 PM said...

we need to stop old fat ugly guys who are cowards and lack social skills from messing up childrens lives we live in a sick sick world god save us

Are you referring to Sam Barlow there?

Anonymous said...

Speaking of media getting it wrong,

I live next door to the office building of Gary Engels, so it was logical that CNN would try to interview someone nearby. CNN interviewed my wife thinking she was FLDS and she actually talked to them; quite a surprise. That's about the only accurate part of the whole deal.

Here are a few mistakes
(1) I am not chasing girls for a second wife.

(2) I am not searching out a new prophet. I don't believe in turning mortal men into demigods.

(3) Hanging onto the FLDS religion but not the prophet...Now come on, CNN, that doesn't even make sense. What makes sense is to not stress any more neurons than necessary when leaving a cult and if they taught something worthwhile, like morality, live it. If the cult taught wearing dresses and there is nothing wrong with that, continue wearing them after leaving. If they taught shunning reporters (and apparently that's good advise), we should have hung onto that, too.

(4) Unless the reporters themselves have been in a cult, they can't accurately portray a former member. I smelled the rat and commented on it to an individual I trusted a few times before Uncle Rulon passed away, but after Uncle Rulon passed away, I did try to force feed myself to accept the religion, but it would never totally agree with conscience. I never did have a very holy house with a picture of Warren haunting every room. I never even had a picture of Warren alone in my house and evaded the issue by having a small (8X10 was all the bigger I would get) one of him with two other men, but I wouldn't get one of Warren, alone. CNN quotes that Warren once meant everything, but I kept one eye and one ear open all along.

(5) I now understand why the FLDS "answer them nothing."

Elsie's Husband

Anonymous said...

Where CNN went wrong is they had an agenda. They wanted to find evidence of the people rejecting Warren and finding a new prophet. So, when they find an XFLDS member that talks to them, they twist everything she says into proving their agenda.

Elsie's Husband.

ATAR_i said...

I think it's incumbent upon reporters to really report objectively, using lots of quotes, because it is sooooo easy to insert our own values or perceptions into a story without even realizing that we didn't get it right.

It's unfortunate, but I don't believe in every instance it's purposefull, but in some instances, it might be.

onthestreet said...

I believe it was Joseph who said, or the Lord to him, that it's the purposes of God that cannot be done away, though all the world war against Him. And Michael is even now gathering together His armies, the Hosts of Heaven, and the purposes of man come to naught.