Saturday, May 06, 2006

Why do the FLDS NOT want to leave the USA?

Many blogers ask why warren doesn't just pack up and leave the United States if he wants to rule like a tyrant.

Here are a few thoughts on the issue.

46 comments:

Faithful Woman said...

The FLDS believe in the Book of Mormon.
Said book is entirely devoted to the story of a famiy and their decendants in their struggles to find the land of Zion, interpreted as the continents of North and South America.

This land is their very hope.

rumor-has-it said...

If you look at it the FLDS Culture, "hates" that which makes it possible for them to live.

It is called Parasitic Thinking. The parasite actually thinks he is in charge. But really when the host is tired, the parasite gets flushed.

* Women are less than
* If you are not for me, you are against me.
* The states are against us
* The Government is against us
* The cops are against us
* The apostates are against us
* The court system is against us
* We are the chosen few
* We are the light on the hill
* The man is always right
* Women's opinions don't count

This list isn't necessarily preached from the pulpit, they just act that way.

Anonymous said...

Well Warren Jeffs is a parasite as the previous poster mentioned. It's going to get harder for the felonious profit to travel around USA to his various hideouts. Tonight on "Americas Most Wanted" Warren Jeffs is the featured crook.
Watch show tonight. May 6, 2006
http://www.amw.com/fugitives/brief.cfm?id=33750

Warren might be well advised to leave USA, the heat's being turned up. Maybe the felonious profit wants to wait till he's on the 10 most wanted list with Osama bin Laden, who is also a polygamist. Ole Warren has Osama beat on number of wives, Osama only has 4 plural wives. ;)

Anonymous said...

If FLDS is a truly religious in nature, then why is there a need for a guard house outside the compound? Why is there a need for Warren Jeff's to be hiding? If he truly believes he is correct, then there should be no need to hide from the public. What he should do is attempt to gain the publics trust and interest in his group, by promoting it to everyone, including the government. If this means that he needs to go to jail, then so be it, he will be going to jail baised on his true belief system, and there is nothing wrong with that. If one truly thinks that they are correct, then they should be willing to sacrafice everything they have for it. The fact that he is hiding, proves to me that he is a coward, who is brainwashing people. Bin Laden is the same way, nothing but a coward. If he is true, he will come out and face whatever is handed to him.

Jax said...

On that note, I saw an article by Mr. Ben Winslow in the Des News.

The link ishere

It says at the bottom that Wendell Nielson "May also be in Europe or out of North America". Any details on that one?

Anonymous said...

i'm thinking of the Statue of Liberty
She stands strong and proud
holds the torch of freedom high in the air
She represents everything good about this country
and what we stand for

the preaching of joseph smith defies Her
uses the name of the Lord to spit in Her face

whether they choose to stay or leave
doesn't really matter
they don't belong

keep sweet eldorado
stg

Anonymous said...

Sounds like its a good time for a road trip! Spring is in the air, fuel a little high, but a doubled reward might offset that cost.

El Dorado, beware of tourist with rental cars or California or Arizona license plates.

Bounty Hunter 2

Anonymous said...

If WJ is demanding special gifts in the amount of $1000.00 /mo. above the tithe, as was reported on "America's Most Wanted" last night, and he receives this kind of funding from his followers, that equates to his personal monthly income of $1,000,000.00 or one million dollars per month, X 12 mo/per. year = $12,000,000.00/yr.! He receives this from his people because he has taught them to fear him and his power.

Has a single one of his prophesys come true? If not, don't you think it's time to question his authority?

If one of his beloved saints turn him in, they will save $1,000.00 a month from being Jeffs' lap dog plus receive $1,000.00 in additional cash for each of the next 100 months or, $1,000.00 a month for the next eight years and four months. The total of the income from the reward and savings would be $200,000.00!

A Saint on the Lookout

Anonymous said...

If they don't want to to leave the USA why are they in Canada in Mexico; that's a part of North America is that what you mean? I thought North america was supoosed to be Zion. I could be wrong.

Faithful Woman said...

Misouri is where we were always told we were going to go back and redeeem 'Zion'.
Don't know where wj got the "inspiration" to build a temple in Texas. In fact, I heard of several sources saying that a previous leader, Roy Johnson, said that Zion was NOT in Texas.

Anonymous said...

Oh No you don't!!Missouri already
has its own polygamy problem.
We dont need any of WSJ's lunatic
fringe FLDS!Let them stay in Texas,Arizona,Nevada,Canada,or Mexico.We don't want them here.

Anonymous said...

If you think thats one of their bigger problems you've got another thing coming. They need to reconcile with God their extermination and abuse of the innocent Mormons. Absolutely ungodly what the state of Missouri did to the Mormons.

ATAR_i said...

Was it the state of Missouri, or ordinary citizens.

I don't know any of the history in Missouri - so that is an honest question - not an attempt to make a point.

Faithful Woman said...

Wow, don't get so offended, just restating what I was told in my youth. Besides, they are in Texas right now. Really don't think they have the unity to gather in any one place and 'take over'.


I can actually see why the Misourians kicked the Mormons out in the first place. The Mormons came in like they had a right to the place and acted all high and mighty, telling the folk already there that they were going to have to move out because it was now "their" gathering place. Not a smart move IMHO. Not likely to make good neighbors.

Anonymous said...

That's the same reason that they left Nauvoo, Ill. A local editor printed something that Joe Smith didn't approve of so he and his cronies wrecked the newspaper office. He, his brother and Taylor were taken into protective custody and placed in the local jail at Carthage, Ill., but a number of people from the area were tired of Smith's Holier-Than-Thou attitude, found out where the three (or four) men were being held and raided the jailhouse. Smith's brother was wounded as was Taylor. Joseph Smith, armed with a pistol opened fire upon those who entered the cell, fire was returned and Smith fell to his death from a second story window after having cried out a 'Masonic' Call for help. Why would someone who was supposed to be in custody have in his possession a side-arm?

Do you think WJ wants to build a martyrs reputation? I don't think he has the intestinal fortitude (that's guts) to those of us in rural areas, to turn himself in and stand trial. He's a wimp who has built himself a kingdom within a democracy. The two don't mix too well.

rcn

Anonymous said...

Innocent Mormons burning Gallatin? They got justice served. Besides, in a court of law, am I responsible if my Great Grandfather did a crime?

Anonymous said...

Faithfull Are you yourself not a Mormon?

Anonymous said...

Joseph Smith was a con man who was counterfeiting money and ripping off the good citizens of non-Mormon faith.

The non-Mormons took it upon themselves to instill frontier law and arrest Joseph Smith.

Good question asked above - Why would JS have a weapon in jail?

A con man died.

Another polygamist con man may soon follow suit and be arrested for the crimes he has committed.

This will cause a new Mormon polygamist martyr to evolve.

I don't think Warren will become as famous, however

Anonymous said...

Protective custody my ass! You idiot.

Anonymous said...

5/9/06 12:56PM

One of the history books I read said that Smith and his cronies were given protective custody by the Governor of Illinois. The question of the weapon in the jailhouse still causes questions.

Personally, I wouldn't care if the citizens had captured the guy and hung him from the nearest "sour apple tree", good ridance only a trifle late to protect all those people who still hang on to his "scripture" as being super- biblical and his D&C 132 superlative to scripture.

WJ and his followers wouldn't be outcasts had it not been for their blind obedience to Smith's adulterous behavior.

rcn

Anonymous said...

Hey rcn, go suck eggs!!!

Anonymous said...

Hey 5/9/06 2:59

Go seek the truth FOR A CHANGE.

rcn

Faithful Woman said...

I am a Mormon born and raised. At least that title will suffice for now.

I do believe that consenting adults should be able to 'cohabit' and call themselvs a family if it so please each of the parties involved.

I do not condone underage marriages or child molestations or coercions that frequently hide under the name of polygamy. Let crimes be prosecuted in the court of law. Just don't cast stereotypes saying that all in a particular culture are guilty of the sins of the convicted.

I do not agree with wj's method of tyrannical rule.

I was not there when JS was the leader of the Mormons. All of that is speculation in this erra. Let the past be past, just learn a lesson of what to do, or what not to do now.

mugwump said...

Faithful:

I appreciate your candor. My concern for all your people is that they follow a prophet instead of Allmighty God. God is not now nor has he ever been a man. His Love sent Jesus, His Only Begotten Son to the cross as the perfect sacriffice offering so that mankind's sins can be forgiven. All God requires is belief that Jesus Blood Saves, and the God's Love has only one condition, belief and faith in the saving grace (Love) that Jesus laid down his life as a demonstration that God shows no favors. God will not be our Judge, Jesus will. Is your name written in the Lamb's (Jesus's) Book of Life? If so, Heaven Is Your Home, if not, you depart with the unsaved to everlasting torment and separation from a Holy Upright and Totally Just God. You want Justice? Trust in Jesus.

Anonymous said...

Joseph Smith shot first and killed a man.

It's about time some truth be shed on Smith behavior.

mugwump said...

Anon. 5/10 7:53

Right on target again. That's what happened.

rcn

saar said...

I doesn't matter what people say that Joseph Smith did or did not do. I believe he had alot more answers than those who just "Believe in Jesus" and don't follow Jesus's teachings, just like those who say they are "Mormons" and don't believe in the teachings.

Kindness begins with me.

Live your religion every day, let others live their religion and stop saying that all FLDS are just like Warren Jeffs. They are NOT. They just like the idea that he can promise them eternal salvation. That doesn't mean they are BAD.
When they wake up, just like the rest of us did. They will be sooo happy they are living is the good ol' USA. If they were living somewhere else...anyone that had a different idea would be dead.

God Bless America
God Bless Warren Jeffs
God Bless Us All

now what is that scripture about praying for your enemies and something about accepting their repentance?

mugwump said...

No Sarr you've got it totally wrong. Why? Because you have been lied to repeatedly. You've never been exposed to the truth. You have been a lifelong victim of a mind-control game. There are millions who follow Jesus, and Him alone. "There is no other name given under heaven by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12 (in part KJV)

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:16

Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. John 6:68

I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins."
John 8:24

Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12

For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
1 Cor. 2:2

For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1 Cor. 3:11

There is no other Savior. Jesus is THE ONLY HOPE.

ATAR_i said...

Dear Faithful

It's people like you who have changed my mind about polygamy. (Don't worry, I'm not running out to get another husband)

But I'm serious. The first time I heard about FLDS it was the multiple wives that was the most salacious part.

I realized over time, that my objections to it were largely cultural, and not religious.

It did make me realize the things that aren't cultural, but are concerning - the things you mention faithful - child molestation, abuse, lack of education, etc etc.

These types of don't just happen to FLDS, they just happen to people. In the case of FLDS, these behaviors are not only supported by the authorities, but perpetrated by the authorities - which makes it especially disturbing and is one of the reasons that the situation has escalated to the level it has.

So thanks Faithful!

mugwump said...

May I doublly applaud atar_i's enlightened and mature viewpoint. It's the sexually abused children and neglected and horribly used women that have become my chief points of concern. These are victimized by a system into which they were born, reared and to which they have been perpetually exposed without any option of learning or knowing what's outside their little world. And the whole thing is sustained by what is taught as religion. If nothing else comes from this debacle may children be protected and may women be respected and appreciated for their cohesive contribution to family life.

onthestreet said...

Anonymous said 5/06/2006 9:51 PM):

If FLDS is a truly religious in nature, then why is there a need for a guard house outside the compound? Why is there a need for Warren Jeff's to be hiding…What he should do is attempt to gain the publics trust and interest in his group, by promoting it to everyone, including the government.


STREET’s Reply: Regarding a guard-house, and hiding, your Lord said it best (Isa. 62:6):

1 For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.

2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.

3 Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the LORD, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.

4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.

5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.

6 I have set WATCHMEN upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence,

7 And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth.

8 The LORD hath sworn by his right hand, and by the arm of his strength, Surely I will no more give thy corn to be meat for thine enemies; and the sons of the stranger shall not drink thy wine, for the which thou hast laboured:

9 But they that have gathered it shall eat it, and praise the LORD; and they that have brought it together shall drink it in the courts of my holiness.

10 Go through, go through the gates; prepare ye the way of the people; cast up, cast up the highway; gather out the stones; lift up a standard for the people.

11 Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.

12 And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.

“And Jesus went out of the temple and hid himself from the people” So you claim he was a coward?

onthestreet said...

Muggy Said (5/11/2006 8:00 PM):

If nothing else comes from this debacle may children be protected and may women be respected and appreciated for their cohesive contribution to family life.

STREET's Reply: "Protection of children", indeed. America KILLS THEM in the womb by the MILLIONS every year, and then if they survive birth, you turn millions into criminals. Just look at your prisons. Those who survive that, they deny them of the very God who gave them birth. Just look at your no prayer in school policy. It is national policy, and the removal of any suggestion of God.

Then you ask: "May the women be respected..." We know what you are lusting after. America cannot turn on the tv without seeing women mocked, raped, even killed, every day, and even the children are taught how to do it with that daily barrage!!!

See how you lie, mudswamp? Therefore, who can believe anything at all that you say? Is it not a lie? Everyone can plainly see that it is.

And in the last day, "SATAN SHALL DECEIVE ALL THE WORLD" (Rev. 12:9). Consider the word of the Lord fulfilled before your very eyes.

onthestreet said...

TARRY & FW Said (5/10/2006 10:25 PM):
I do not condone underage marriages or child molestations or coercions that frequently hide under the name of polygamy. Let crimes be prosecuted in the court of law. Just don't cast stereotypes saying that all in a particular culture are guilty of the sins of the convicted. I do not agree with wj's method of tyrannical rule.

These types of don't just happen to FLDS, they just happen to people. In the case of FLDS, these behaviors are not only supported by the authorities, but perpetrated by the authorities - which makes it especially disturbing and is one of the reasons that the situation has escalated to the level it has.
So thanks Faithful!


STREET's Reply: “Abuses perpetuated by the authorities”? Right! That's the point. They were raided and raided and raided (1886, 1935, 1944, 1953, 2006, and many times in-between), forcing them out of the cities, and into the deserts. Yet, those who maintain their faith remain honorable, and do not molest children like America does in KILLING A MILLION BABIES EVERY YEAR in the womb, and calling it “WOMEN’S RIGHTS”. What they do is CAST OUT those who do abuse children, as the Prophet is well known to have done in recent years and months. He cast them out for the incest and wife abuse, and abandoned them, saying: “You people do not deserve a prophet”. This fact is well known, but only the guiltless can accept it. The rest are guilty.

As for “tyrannical rule”, Jesus your Lord says it best: “I shall rule the world WITH AN IRON HAND, with my martyrs, for a thousand years, and into eternity”.

onthestreet said...

ANONYMOUS Said (5/07/2006 1:46 PM):

If one of his beloved saints turn him in, they will save $1,000.00 a month from being Jeffs' lap dog plus receive $1,000.00 in additional cash for each of the next 100 months or, $1,000.00 a month for the next eight years and four months. The total of the income from the reward and savings would be $200,000.00! A Saint on the Lookout


STREET’s Reply: If a “saint” is hunting a saint, then you are not a saint, but a Judas. He too sought a bag of money, and what did he save. He died. To put the price of a few pennies on life itself makes YOU THE CRIMINAL.

onthestreet said...

ATAR_i said (5/08/2006 5:43 PM):
Was it the state of Missouri, or ordinary citizens. I don't know any of the history in Missouri - so that is an honest question - not an attempt to make a point.



STREET's Reply:

Extermination Order, Lilburn W. Boggs, Governor...WHEREAS, on October 27, 1838, the Governor of the State of Missouri, Lilburn W. Boggs, signed an order calling for the extermination or expulsion of Mormons ...
www.jwha.info/mmff/exorder.htm

Anonymous said...

If he were "messiah" you would have a valid argument BUT, he is NOT. He is a fugitive from justice on substantuated warrents issued from Arizona, Utah all based upon child abuse and upon two Federal Warrants due to his subsequent flight to avoid prosecution. HE IS A FUGITIVE. HE BECAME A FUGITIVE BECAUSE HE BELIEVES HIMSELF ABOVE LAW. HE IS A COWARD OR HE WOULD TURN HIMSELF IN, FACE HIS ACCUSERS AND DISPROVE THE CHARGES IN A COURT OF LAW.

JESUS FACED HIS ACCUSERS, HE OFFERED NO DEFENSE, HE WAS CHARGED BY AN ILLEGAL COURT, MEETING AT AN ILLEGAL TIME, WITHOUT A QUORUM (REQUIRED BY THEIR OWN LAW) BEING PRESENT. TWO WITNESSES TESTIFIED AGAINST HIM. THEIR TESTIMONY DID NOT AGREE UPON RELEVANT ISSUES. PILATE THOUGHT HIM INNOCENT, BUT BECAUSE OF POLITICAL PRESSURE HE GAVE IN TO THE JEWISH LEADERSHIP AND HANDED HIM OVER TO BE CRUCIFIED. WARREN JEFFS IS NO JESUS. HE'LL STAY IN HIDING JUST AS LONG AS POSSIBLE. HE WON'T FACE HIS ACCUSERS. IF HE IS CAUGHT MY BET IS THAT YOU WILL NEVER AGAIN SEE SUCH A CRY-BABY TRY TO BLAME ALL HIS PROBLEMS ON SOMEONE ELSE. HE'S NOT EVEN A MAN.

YOU ots ARE JUST A SILLY WIMP, A BRAGGARD, AND A DELUSIONAL MISFIT.

rcn

ATAR_i said...

I hate how every time someone mentions warren schtuping some poor, scared, young student in the bathroom you mention abortion.

We're not talking about abortion now - try to stay on topic - we're talking about warrens appetite for young boys and girls.

onthestreet said...

Anonymous – rcn said (5/12/2006 12:46 PM): If he were "messiah" you would have a valid argument BUT, he is NOT. He is a fugitive from justice on substantuated warrents…


STREET’s Reply: So was the Messiah a fugitive from justice on substantuated warrants from a court of law. The Jews and the Romans often sought for him, and finally issued warrants for his arrest. So, thank you for finally confessing that I have a valid argument. Above the Law? Jesus was so accused, and said: “I came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill it”. He often LEFT Jerusalem to hide and escape from His accusers, dillusional misfits, as the Christian Bible plainly shows, “as long as possible” as you say, until His time had come for Glory.

Go figure, my child.

onthestreet said...

ATAR_i said... I hate how every time someone mentions warren schtuping some poor, scared, young student in the bathroom you mention abortion. We're not talking about abortion now - try to stay on topic - we're talking about warrens appetite for young boys and girls. 5/12/2006 7:31 PM


STREET’s Reply: Yes, you hate it when babies are defended. No time is a bad time to defend innocent children. The topic is “abuse”, and what is more abusive than America’s popular pastime of KILLING millions of little children. Ahh, right on topic. Quit changing the subject.

Anonymous said...

Hey wimp,

Go back and read the second paragraph of my previous post.

Jesus was not a Zealot, he was not an insurrectionist, he broke no law except those of the ruling priesthood, they themselves were illegal, not being in the decendency of Aaron. These guys were political apointees who owed ther allegance to the House of Herod for their position.

Jesus was the Lamb of God. Take your Gnosticism and bark up another tree.

rcn

ATAR_i said...

OTS - we've already been over this. I've spent years on the abortion picket lines defending young lives (you talk about it - but never actually do anything about it).

So - I've DONE MORE against abortion - but you wag your tongue but DO NOTHING.

But no matter what - you can't defend warren schtuping boys - so you bring up abortion.

We know you struggle with homosexuality - and so you hate the topic - FINE - just stay out of the discussion.

onthestreet said...

Ahh, the FLDS do THE MOST about it: We "Multiply and Replenish the earth and subdue it", in our humble effort to fulfill this commandment direct from God. It is an awsome responsibility, and very tiring, but God's command nonetheless. We let the little children come, and that most abundantly.

DO YOU? Do you fulfill the measure of your creation as a woman, to bear as many children as God can create, or do you hinder the little children, and promote that hindrance throughout the world?

Ahh, you spent years on the picket lines, just talking about it, but the FLDS community is actually doing something about it, living it, practicing what God preached, not just picketing at it.

"And in that day, many will say: Lord, Lord, have we not proclaimed thy name (etc), and I will say unto them: "Depart hense, ye cursed. I never knew you".

Now, if you are actually a doer of the Word (to bring forth the children abundantly, for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven), and not just a sayer of the Word (on picket-lines etc), then that's different. Right sweetie?

onthestreet said...

Homesexuality is nearly as sinful as abortion. No struggle there, sister. It only seems to be all guess-work with you, and thus a struggle, not knowing how else to refute God's word.

mugwump said...

Promises, Promises, Promises. Where are your vain projections of truth. Why is your community falling apart.

BECAUSE SOME OF US ARE ALLOWING THEM TO SEE THE TRUTH FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THEIR LIVES!

Your empty praddle is empty, full of lies, vain glory for self and your perverted boyfriend WJ.

Birds of a feather flock together.

ATAR_i said...

You have never done a thing to prevent abortion.

Having sex is not the same thing as actively taking a stand against abortion. It's not even in the ballpark.

You suck at logic.

onthestreet said...

We have given the world a perfect example to follow.