Friday, May 19, 2006

Who is Running Things at the Creek?

From all reports Lyle Jeffs, the acting bishop, has taken over for WJ, and will continue to do so. So what kind of leader is he? Just another WJ?


saar said...

Lyle Jeffs is a rat! He is a hundred times worse than Warren Jeffs. Warren is such a coward that he won't do any dirty work. Lyle will do the dirty work and take great pleasure in telling people to leave, making judgement calls and switching husbands and houses. Better take him out before Warren or it will turn into a nightmare. worse than it allready is.

ATAR_i said...

warren probably does what he does because he has some sort of weird scheme. lyle will carry it out, because he enjoys it.

It it worse to have weird psychotic schemes and to not care who you step on to make them happen, or worse to enjoy making other people suffer.

They are both some kind of freaky weird - that's for sure.

My G-d what did that family do to those kids

rumor-has-it said...

Warren Jeffs Plan of Action

*Speak for Father
*Take Authority
*Take many young wives
*Take the churchs money and use it for self and family (forget about the poor and widows and orphans)
*Sing beautiful songs to get the womens hearts
* Tell the women that they are more worthy than their husbands
* Teach obedience from the cradle so they don't have to know right or wrong, just who to obey
* Dispose of men that are immoral or have faults, esp Allen Steed and Leroy Jeffs (they know too much)
* Give children power over their parents, give them brownie points for tattling
* Switch houses and husbands, keep them moving and sorting things out, so they can't see the big picture.
* Never stop disposing of people, if you do, someone may wake up. Always give them something to mourn over.
* Always have a better plan
* Complicate the gospel
* Tell them WJ is the only way to heaven, that way everyone with any past will hold on
* Tell the people that being right is more important than anything like love, kindness
* Build places all over the world, and tell the saints that "Zion" is for the pure in heart and then tell all the people that built the compounds, that they are not worthy.

Anonymous said...

Way to go Rumor!

Great Post!

Anonymous said...

Revealing Jeffs idiocyncries concerning being in and/or out of favor would have a tendency for sane persons to believe the followers to be as crazy as the leader. They might even be more so, their psycological, phisiological and familial platforms being upset on a daily basis. What keeps them from becoming babbling idiots?

If they were to be rescued can they be healed? When Jeffs is captured or kills himself, and one or the other will happen, their dictator (fuhrer) will have departed. Can some other unscruplious member of Jeffs inner circle assume leadership without immediatly coming under suspision of being involved in exactly the same criminal activities as Jeffs? Will the sheeple ever believe the truth? Will it require separation of children 18 months and younger from their parents to give them even a remote chance at a normal life? From reading Rumor's analysis, the continual breakup of family seems to becoming the norm for FLDS.

I admit that this is becoming one of the most illogical events I have ever been witness to.


furnace said...

Taking children away from parents would only make whoever does it worse than Warren.

Anonymous said...


My concern is for the children. If there was even a remote chance for them to grow into adults without being assaulted or bartered, cast out or abused, children without roots or shelter, parents who love them more than they love their profit.

What would be wrong with those children having loving caring, providing parents? There are thousands of loving caring couples who can't bear children who would love to have a child, as beautiful as those children appear in pictures.

These people would provide not only physical needs, but the one thing that Warren Jeffs is incapable of giving to anybody, LOVE. He is his only amore. Power to him is love, withholding love is power.

We are dealing here with a total mental incompetent, a social outcast, a sociopath, a sexual deviate with an ego problem larger than that of Napoleon, Hitler or Saddam Hussain. It would not surprise me one bit to find that WJ is enforcing blood atonement and then drinking the victim's blood. I believe that he is that crazy.


Anonymous said...

Warren wants complete control. He cares not for children or anyone. He has done the most bazarre things. Thank him for the current trend to get him. He brought this on himself when he forgot the pure love of Christ was the way to be saved and started abusing the very people that would have followed him to HELL. Now some of them question him, the law wants him, he has lost his UEP trustee status, and he will be caught. He should have been more careful to not bring so much negative attention to himself.

Taking away children would only cause more pain to the innocent people at his mercy. They may never choose to look to a better life but they are mostly good people with no skills or ability to get out of HELL. So many don't even know they are in hell. It is a double edged sword. There is no happy ending withour the people being aware and making choices that are better. Forcing them would be a disaster. Abuses against children should be prosecuted as soon as anyone is made aware of them, but there are people that DO NOT abuse their children in FLDS land. It needs to be a case by case basis for taking children from the parents they love. Mass DCFS involvemenet would be a mistake.

Anonymous said...

I've long thought that Warren jefs is totaly posessed of Satan. No person representing love, care, compasion or any virtue would presume to place his own person, his place within his society, his infamy is even something he adores within himself. King Herod, see Acts Chapter 12. especially vs. 21 -23. Has not Warren Jeffs placed himself in similar circumstance?


rumor-has-it said...

Bad things happen all over the US, the main reason that analysts give is that people live in their own little world and don't even get to know the neighbors bordering their own homes. I recommend that you stop in your own neighbor hood and say Hi! to each neighbor.

If the people in Creek still did this, the story may have a different ending.

Anonymous said...

On most days, if I get to the post office at a perscribed time i dare say that I can exchange Hello by name with 90% of those whom I encounter. The population of our community is not all that static either!


onthestreet said...

You sayin thew bweedin like wabbits, or wunnin like wabbits?

onthestreet said...

You're just proving that your town is very polygamous-minded, as is every American town. Most their men relate to multiple women, even if they have to do it out of wedlock. The FLDS of course is much more honest about it, as we all know without a doubt.

Polygamy is the only marriage system in the world. We all have the same Father in heaven, one man. Yet there are millions of mothers procreating for that man. So you are all very fine polygamists indeed.

ATAR_i said...

The FLDS women are procreating?????


I thought it was all by immaculate conception! (oh yeah - that's just your personal ruse to make your lack of attraction towards women something religious - my bad).

BTW - I find it interesting that Joseph Smith's idea of Christs immaculate conception was that it was *not* so immaculate. He had a father - like everyone has a father - meaning - a human seed (sperm).

Anyhoo - I think Catholics and Protestant theology has immaculate conception wheras Joseph Smith DOESN'T - perhaps you should convert.

onthestreet said...

Tari, how is a Father the human seed? The child is the seed, you would think, if your thinking is straight. I said that THE WORLD is polygamy, not the FLDS. The FLDS is not polygamy. We don't believe in that. How many times does that fact have to be repeated. That would be infinately, if one looks into your ears and sees daylight.

Yes, Joseph was right. Christ has a Father like everyone. He was just conceived immaculately, not as the dogs conceive. He casts out the dogs from His midst. Just because one Son is conceived immaculately, and one by defilement, doesn't mean that either one is without a father, the one being of the Lord and the other of the Devil.

rumor-has-it said...

The kind of neighbor I am talking about is not the saying Hi at the post office and knowing people. It is the kind where you actually go to their house and say Hi! and talk to the family and maybe invite them over for a BBQ.

(I just don't see how saying Hi at the post office can help prevent abuses at home.)

Anonymous said...

Saying hi at the post office doesn't have a thing to do whether or not there are isolated cases of child abuse in my little town. I presume that there are. I'm sure that there are those that never get reported so no one knows for sure except the victim and the abuser.

Your position is not helped by the open fact that is currently being exposed related to young women, without their consent many times are forced into marriages to men that may be three times their age and may have children older than the new bride. Polygamy is against the law in all fifty states. There are nations in Africa and I suppose in Asia where polygamy is still practiced. Worldwide population has quadruppled since 1950. Were the argument to be fruitful and multiply not already an accomplished fact polygamy might be justified.

Mine, and other posters on this blog are interested in seeing children treated with love, care and respect. A brother, father, uncle or prophet who takes one of these little ones and uses her, or him for their own sexual satisfaction is a brute of the lowest order of mankind. He really is not a man, he is a beast.
I don't care if he lives in CC, YFZ or any town in America.


rumor-has-it said...

...And I am not talking about polygamy or abuses by Warren Jeffs or any one else for that matter.

And I totally agree on children being treated with love and care and respect.

I am talking about being a "real" neighbor and not just talking, blogging about all the abuses in the world (or FLDS) or picking on polygamy in particular.

I am talking about making a differnece in the life of someone close to you. Someone closer than (FLDS in CC) needs some hope in your neighborhood.

When I left, I did not have any relatives that I could call and talk to (that had already left and could understand), I like to think that I have made it better for those that can call and talk to me.

If you have ever been totally homesick, without family and friends, walked away from everything that you ever held near and dear to you (except your kids) and wished for friendship with anyone, not knowing how to go forward, a hello in the post office can make your day. But more than that is someone who will come by a visit, cheer you up.

Depression is the biggest obstickle
that a person coming from the Creek has to deal with.

There is one in your neighborhood that you can make a difference for.

Anonymous said...

There are several whom I have a good relationship, several with whom I care not to associate. Why? I don't believe that a true friendship could result, we have a different set of ideals, attend different churches, either belong or don't belong to social or faternal organizations, are overly or not intersted in sports etc. etc. etc.

I can befriend without being a friend. If they are broken down along the roadway and I recognize them I probably will stop, go back and offer aid. Our world has changed, for the worse, in the past forty years. Beginning with the rebelousness of the 60's violence became something we saw exhibited on T.V. and we became fearful of strangers. Maybe that failure is a grave fault of character.

I'm reminded of the story of the Good Samaritan. In fact the story was about an injured man and two members of society who should have come to his aid. The Samaritan, an outcast bound up his wounds, carried him to safety and offered the inn keeper the finds to ensure that the man was cared for. This is exlemperary of the Christian Spirit. Christianity as taught by Jesus is not a long set of rules and laws by which one must abide. Instead, Jesus offers fulfillment of the law of Moses by teaching that obedience of the law was for the good of all mankind and should be the normal behavior for any follower of His. Christianity, as I man many others see it is not a religion, but a lifestyle. Jesus is Lord, I am his adopted brother (Romans Chapter 8)and God is our Father.


ATAR_i said...

Good point Rumor - I think we can all do a better job at that.

I recently had a really awkward experience. I purchased coupons for a school fundraiser and decided my daughter and I would use one. We went to a nice restaurant. I had lost the coupon somewhere in that purse of mine. I was searching in vain.

Someone from the table next must have seen me looking and handed me their coupon. I felt so embarrassed. I did not need the coupon, and this woman probably did more than I. I just tend to be frugal.

It was awkward to accept this womans incredible kindness, but I did. My daughter and I went home that night and decided - that while we couldn't pay that woman back, we would 'pay it forward' (think I watched a movie on that a few years back).

Anyhow, I've been more around of the needs of those around me, looking for an opportunity to be of help. I've had several, and they keep coming.

I hope I am ever changing, and becoming someone more neighborly and caring to those around me.

onthestreet said...

That sounds really nice, Tari. Sainthood really aint so bad, and you are to be commended.

Anonymous said...

Of those who regularly post I know at least three who ARE Saints, Atar-i, Mugwump, and rcn. There are probably others who are regular contributors.

There is at least ONE and probably more wanta be saints, but aint's, ots, best example. Cult sold out to Satan.

ATAR_i said...

Anon, I am definately not a saint, but I'll take the compliment as I know it was intended as such.

Anonymous said...

I didn't say necessarily that you ACTED like a saint. I said that your earlier posts indicate to me that you know the saving Grace of God and are trusting in the Blood of the Lamb. You will be numbered among those at the Marriage Feast of The Lamb and thus you are a Saint. Becoming a Saint is not something we earn, Christ has paid the price, He bought us, we are His and thus we are Saints.

Do we deserve the title? No, not by a long shot. It's a gift of God.

ATAR_i said...

LOL - can I still keep the compliment - I've been feeling so special today : )

Anonymous said...

I'm runnin things at the creek fool !!

Anonymous said...

Go ahead, you have my permission, but you might be careful about throwing the term "fool" around.

You might want to check out Matthew 5:22

nuf sed

onthestreet said...

Yes, salvation is a gift, and there are degrees of it. The Lord speaks of ascending into Paradise, and then later to the Father, see? And he speaks of "three heavens", see?


19 - Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 - But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 - Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 - Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

You make the Lord out to be a liar, see? Do you believe the Lord, or don't you? If not, then you are the Anti-Christ.

onthestreet said...

That's in reply to anon(5/29/2006) 7:19 PM, and to all who are saying salvation and love are
"unconditional". There are conditions, and degrees of salvation according to our fulfillment.

Anon said: Becoming a Saint is not something we earn, Christ has paid the price, He bought us, we are His and thus we are Saints.

That would make the whole world saints, which is lie if Christ told us the truth in Rev. 12:9:

"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him".

Does that sound like "sainthood"? Believe the Lord. The Lord is saying "FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT" (Mt. 7:13):

13. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat". Does that sound like "sainthood"?

14. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

So believe the Lord, and quit calling Him a liar.

onthestreet said...

God's unconditional love refers to what He does give us, unconditionally, which are legion. That is "God's unconditional love".

But sainthood and exaltation are wrought with many conditions, many laws that we need to learn and abide, and many trials and tribulations and oppositions (the very thing the FLDS are fulfilling today), before we reach that high degree of heaven where God is.

ATAR_i said...

Nuf Sed - excellent comeback!

Conditional love is not love at all, but manipulation which uses love as bait.

Now you're getting into real theology Calvinism vs. Arminianism. Neither group advocates 'unconditional love' in an absolute sense.

Calvanism teaches unconditional election, Arminianism emphasizes universal atonement and unlimited grace.

God's love is not a careless love which is indifferent to our sinful condition. The love of God sent Christ to make us holy

True grace allows us to say 'no' to ungodliness and to live with self control in an upright manner. A mistaken view of unconditional love would be that there is no need for a change in behavior, and no submission to God.

Bottom line: God's love is unconditional assures us that his love is not manipulative - he doesn't love us for what he can get out of us, nor does he demand absolute perfection. It is not based upon our works of self-righteousness. He loves His Church even with its blemishes. He loves us to much to allow us to remain defective - so he sent his son.

onthestreet said...

Well put, putt putt.

Anonymous said...


Just take your nonsense and go away! I used to feel for you and your logic.

I get it. This is your entertainment. OK, we can humor you smore.

Folks, lets humor him."Let him express his thoughts and beliefs and not get excited about it."
Consider the source... Ancient Chinese Proverb. Ha, Ha, Ha.

mugwump said...

He, He, He, Ho, Ho, Ho
Ancient Somalian Proverb

An unsolvable riddle to bi-polar personalities.

Rachel said...

check - DAMNED TO HEAVEN- preview of documentary

Anonymous said...
DAMNED TO HEAVEN - documentary about FLDS and Warren Jeffs