Wednesday, March 08, 2006

Is This Really Relevant or even Interesting

A wife who is unhappy. Absolutely nothing new there, happens every day, in every type of marriage. A father who is abusive, hmmmmm like we never heard of this before. Marriages that don't work and the wife is complaining,,, wow like that never happened before. They get on TV and think that this is something special. It's not. They own property and have money , woooo, let's all get excited. Nothing new going on here. They are a secretive religious sect , like we have never heard of this before. An older man tries his luck with a younger women, happens every way of every day, with results that sometimes work and sometimes not. This stuff is not unusual , happens in everyday life everywhere.

32 comments:

ATAR_i said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ATAR_i said...

Yeah, but.....

Her dad had four wives and molested his little girls.

Her wedding night was spent with a man she barely knew, with her sister in his bed rubbing his back while she was deflowered.

This is part of the religion - the secrecy, the wedding, the multiple wives (and NO, that's not everyday for most everyone), the control.

HO hum, you got arrested because you didn't obey your husband (HELLO - NOT ORDINARY).

So, you can wish that it's ordinary - BUT IT'S NOT. A rape of infants in Africa (by men whom have AIDS) is more salacious than that of a drunken middle aged woman. The molestation of a catholic boys by their priests are not just ordinary molestations when they come with cover ups and scandals.

So NO, it's not just ordinary hum drum - it's different. It comes with a lot more 'stuff'. More wives, more control, police corruption, religious control, the whole kahuna.

ATAR_i said...

Am I being over-reactive - or are you hiding something.

You've started three new threads since I posted the initial article and movie. You are trying to bury the article and the movie - why?

Because even to you, who wants to minimilize it - you can't. You can't make the impact smaller - trying to say how all fundy women are better, how it's irrelevant, and how it was a one time thing, or that it's ho hum, hum drum only make you look even more desperate to supress the information.

Why?

Because it is a big deal - EVEN TO YOU.

And while we're on the subject of unrealistic your generalization of a whole bunch of women based on their religion (i.e. they're better wives) is a gross example of unrealistic. I think it's interesting that you're exact phrase was

"You have a women that if you treat her right she will stand bye her man." I'd say that's an interesting little mistake you made there.

ATAR_i said...

It was really classy when they shut the doors in Laurenes face when she told them that was the home she was raised in (oh and the windows too).

and the fundy that screamed 'GO TO HELL' - she was a real gem - TOTALLY CLASSY

And, how can you know what the story is about unless you read it, or watch the movie - you psychic or something. No - but you've already decided it's bad, and spammed the blog - pretty pathetic and desperate.

ATAR_i said...

Fundy - what if someone Told the leaders what happened in Sunday School, and they just moved him to a different class.

What if they told the police, and the police did nothing - other than escort the child to a mental institution (then...it would make the news) - like your stuff has.

AND, IF THE PROPHET IS MAKING THE MATCHES - AND HE KNOWS THE FUTURE - AND HE IS SO POWERFUL, AND ALL SEEING (A PROPHET) WHY ARE THE MARRIAGES FALLING APART.

And BTW I'm just dandy - no need for a rest - interesting patronizing comments though.

Anonymous said...

Mugwump, I would like to see such a study myself. I believe you would be surprised by the results. I believe there is a greater percentage of aberrant behavior in a typical Texas town than there is in CC/Hildale, that is, unless Texas is different than most small towns in Utah and Arizona. (Think: Fredonia, here)

Now, without that study, we are all just guessing here. But be careful in your judgment.

fttc said...

I do not wish to take away from the point you make about conroling others. However, we see the results of this more apparent in women and children because of their inherent weaker natures. To suppose that the abuse is strictly carried out against the women and children is not factual. There are many cases where the women have had more control over the men than vice versa. The women get their control by using the 'priesthood' just like the men do. They 'will tell the prophet' if such and such is not done. There are men as frightened by their wives as these 'abused wives' are by the men.

With your statements about the men and mine about the women it appears that we have condemned the entire community. Not really. As Fundy has tried to point out: these reports that get into the news are not the norm in CC/Hildale. That there may be more of it per capita than another US town of equal population may be true. That still does not make it the norm. I doubt it would be much greater if it is. That there have been abuses is undeniable. That the perpetrators should be punished is a given. That there are victims is heartbreaking.

Let's not forget that there are many polygamists even in the FLDS who are very good parents. They love their children and are doing the best for them that they can. Because they live a lifestyle that many consider unacceptable does not make them evil people. And yes I do remember that polygamy is against the law.

ATAR_i said...

I don't think arranged marriage predisposes couples to being less happy necessarily.

Polygamy, might work for some, but I think that it just absolutely doesn't work for others.

Child abuse - natural parents can be sexually abusive to their children, but adults who become step parents are more likely to abuse - so I guess if you are having more divorce (or change) in that area - you are more likely to fall into that situation.

Then you have another quandry - if a father marries his stepdaughter who is underage - most would consider that to be a sexually innappropriate relationship - however - I doubt it would be classified as such in FLDS.

Most would consider it sexual misconduct for an adult to have sex with a girl under 18, but I don't believe all FLDS feel that way.

So - I think any study of behaviors - would have to be very objective. And without such a study - I don't think any generalizations could be accurate.

1. how old were you when you first had a sexual relationship?
2. were you married?
3. how old was your partner?
4. were you related to your partner?
5. if so, how were you related?
6. did you want to get married?
7. if no, were you forced to get married?

Studies are interesting - because things are not always as you expected - sometimes they're worse - sometimes better.

It would be interesting - but I agree with the poster who stated that it will probably never happen - so there's no point trying to argue the validity of it - we just CAN'T know.

ATAR_i said...

Yes, I agree.

ATAR_i said...

I am calling into question the marriages that warren has created and destroyed.

Firstly, I question his motivations for the unions he did allow.

Secondly, I question his motivations for the unions he tore apart.

What God has put together - let no man put assunder

I would be very curious about what happened when someone who had a marriage lost it. When they were told, 'you've been kicked out'. How were the wives notified - what were they told?

I realize each and every situation is extremely different - but if someone could shed some light on how the process works I would be grateful.

Anonymous said...

If Warren Jeffs is a prophet then the Mississippi River runs in a northerly direction and the Nile runs southward, the Pacific is on our east coast and the Indian Ocean is on our west coast. The Gulf of Mexico has been replaced by the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea has become salty. Salmon go to sea to spawn and catfish climb trees. Elephants water ski and Cardinals are navy blue, fly upside down and backward while wearing union suits and cowboy boots.

And that is only a part of how ridiculous your professions that WJ is a man of principle, dignity, and high moral standards. To quote a most used phrase, your prophet is only for profit, self gratification and perverted sexual drives.

ATAR_i said...

3:39 have we met?

Anonymous said...

Are you stating this from stuff youve read in the papers I wonder?

ATAR_i said...

who are you asking?

Anonymous said...

atar_i

We have met many times, just not face to face.

Anon. 3/11 3:39

ATAR_i said...

I wish you had a nickname - even one that you just write at the bottom - so I could know which anonymous you were.

Would you consider it?

Anonymous said...

OK Atar_i. Let's call me R.C.NEHI

ATAR_i said...

OK, now sign your posts with r.c. nehi - that way I know it's you. Can you tell me what we discussed before - or something about you.

Anonymous said...

atar_i

You and I are usually on the same side of an argument. We both think ots is a little deranged and much mis-led. When I post my blog pen name you immediately recognize it. Sometimes there are issues I don't care to discuss and people I want no association with so I use Annon. Maybe the practice is hypocritical, but there are some folks beyond reason. I know their point of view, they know mine and I won't be a part of their continuing idiocy.

RC NEHI

ATAR_i said...

Gotcha, there was something about you - so I had to ask.

Now I'm totally curious - if you want - email and let me know your blog nic if you want to.

I'm too curious for my own good! (ots will have a field day with that - oh well).

Anonymous said...

Dream on lil' dreamer, dream on.

You ain't nothin' but a hound dog, CROCKIN' all the time.

Don't worry about ots, he ain't in your league. He don't even know where the field of play is, or the game time either.

Dream - - - Dream-Dream-Dream

rcn

ATAR_i said...

Your missing my point OTS

Why does warren put certain couples together?

Why does he take certain couples apart?

I think some of the unions have more to do with money and power than any lofty religious rationale or impurity.

If you would like to walk me through warrens thought process on putting a couple together - or tearing a couple apart it would be informative.

Anonymous said...

Warren's interest is in power not in effect. He couldn't care less about the outcome of his insane acts. All his lemings are pawns in his game of I'ma 'big man' and ots is still working on his merit badge in his fruitless attempt to become a pawn.

rcn

ATAR_i said...

OTS - Based on your answer I'm guessing you have no idea how he decides who to put together, and who to tear apart either.

Does anyone know if warren favors rewarding financial contributions with wives? (or does it have nothing to do with that)

Anyone in FLDS What would you say are his motivations for putting couples together? (I'm not asking about how it was done pre-warren - this is strictly a w jeffs question).

ATAR_i said...

I'm waiting for an answer from someone who actually has information - you have platitudes and geocities websites. I think I'll wait for information from someone in the crick who was/is more in 'the know.

ATAR_i said...

Faithful, thanks it makes sense. Do most men get at least one wife if they survive through adolescence in CC?

Anonymous said...

God is a Spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and Truth. For the Father seeketh such that worship Him.

God became man in the person of Jesus Christ. Man has never become God nor will he ever achieve that epitome of self worship. This practice represents Idol worship at it's lowest form.

Anti-Christ will proclaim himself to be god, but his final destination is in the lake of fire. I hope Warren likes a super-warm room, but don't really care, he's made his reservation without knowing anything about the resort he's bound for. No sunlight, no light of any kind, pain, gnashing of teeth, absence of the Presence of the Living God. Do I think Warren is THE Anti-Christ? No, he's not smart enough nor has he attracted a large enough following. He's just a little pretender, a pimple on a rat's posterior,

ATAR_i said...

So Faithful - is that has made you strong (and faithful) - you saw your parents?

I guess you know where you stand with the in-laws when that happens (pre wedding fist in the face).

Are your parents still alive?

ATAR_i said...

I had no idea Faithful - the oldest of seven! I grew up in a house almost completely devoid of testosterone (only my father). I always wanted a brother.

That's a pretty funny story - I love those kinds of stories. My parents have a few good ones, that have been repeated through the years.

ATAR_i said...

What an experience to help your mother give birth. I really cannot imagine that. A gal where I live has 19 children (no divorce, no multiple births) and I'm astounded.

When I moved here - I heard about her. No one was able to tell me her religion - only that it wasn't catholic, wasn't LDS, it was something different. I wonder what?

We are out of FLDS country, and she wears jeans - so I'm stymied.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps no religion and no knowledge of how to prevent becoming with child. How many were multiple births? Over what length of time did she bear these children? One of my great-grandmothers had fifteen, over a period of about twenty-five years.

Had a neighbor one time who had nine girls, no sons. She indicated that her husband wanted to keep trying until they had a son. She was PG all the time. She kinda reminded me of Ma Kettle who had so many children that she forgot their names. Wouldn't that be an experience, to grow up in a home where even your mother didn't know who you were?

Anonymous said...

I sure glad you aren't mine. I'd have to disown you as damaged goods beyond redemption.

rcn