Tuesday, March 07, 2006

Trustee of FLDS is out of patience

Article Last Updated: 3/20/2006 03:05 AM
Trustee of FLDS is out of patience
Hildale, Colorado City: Cooperate - or else, he tells residents and police
By Brooke Adams The Salt Lake TribuneSalt Lake Tribune
See complete article in comments.

43 comments:

ogre said...

Mr. Wisan:
Could I find out if my family has paid there taxes? Could I help with those taxes? I would like to know

fttc said...

Hey Fundy-- Could you edit your post and at least put most of the body of the article inside the thread? It is a pain to have that much to scroll thru when looking at titles.

BTW, thanks for the heads up on this one!

Anonymous said...

Bruce Wisan the trustee appointed by the courts threatens to get tough with FLDS, threatening to have people evicted for not paying taxes and to have police officers in Colorado City, AZ/Hildale, UT removed from police force if they don't cooperate. This sets up confrontation, although article mentions that many homes are now empty. IMO they must have went somewhere, perhaps YFZ and the "temple of doom" down in Texas?
From Trib article:

"Wisan is threatening to evict residents who don't cooperate in paying taxes and other efforts to manage the community's property. He wants police officers who refuse to answer his questions decertified."

http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_3576778

Also read this report: http://extras.sltrib.com/specials/po...tus_report.pdf

This report from Wisan makes a fascinating read.

Anonymous said...

Try this link to read court report, cut & paste to browser.
http://extras.sltrib.com/specials/polygamy/other/UEP_2nd_status_report.pdf

Anonymous said...

Does anyone think that the new fiduciary is interested in the rights of the FLDS people?

fttc said...

Have you read the report on the link above? It sounds to me as if he is trying his best to be fair and not trample on the rights of anyone. Read his report to the court before you decide.

I think the question is do the FLDS people want to stand up for their rights or will they throw them away and take in their place the directives they seem to be getting from leadership?

Will they follow the advice of warren and thumb their noses at the law until they have no homes left? Unfortunately if history is any indication the majority of them will be evicted for non-compliance and then claim the government is persecuting them for their religion.

ATAR_i said...

That's a tough one - I don't envy the guy.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Does anyone think that the new fiduciary is interested in the rights of the FLDS people?

MR. OR MRS. ANONYMOUS
Your post should say
"Is Warren Jeffs and his elite followers interested in the rights of the FLDS people?

NO...NO....NO...NO

There would of been no Bruce Wisen if Warren had taken care of business.

If Warren Jeffs was interested in the rights of the FLDS people he would kept the money home and built up Zion there and not gone elsewhere.

He could be an activist and fight for his right to be a polygamist instead of hiding away.

Hey he could of been like ol Joseph Musser, go to jail and then get released by signing a statement he would not be a polygamist no more and then go on to live the lifestyle. He was a real winner.

Jax said...

Does anyone think that the new fiduciary is interested in the rights of the FLDS people?

PAY YOUR DAMN TAXES! You're in the U.S. and you have to pay them. I don't understand this "they're pickin' on meeeee" mentality. Pay your taxes or lose your house. It's the way it is everywhere.

ATAR_i said...

The FLDS are aware they need to pay their taxes. They won't be able to claim persecution on this point.

Despite the fact that they are probably being manipulated to some extent, they are adults - and most didn't just *fall* into the situation, they chose it.

If the men choose to pay taxes, they could potentially lose all of their wives and children (a hefty price to pay, they might just choose to lose the house instead) <----but that's a choice - a tough one, but never the less a choice.

If a woman paid taxes behind her man's back - would he suffer the consequences for not controlling her, or would they suffer any at all?

Of course, I highly doubt that women, who have been raised in the manner that many of these women have - would consider such an option.

When they all wake up, and realize what's happened to them, they will not be able to walk back into the same situation they threw away to follow 'the prophet'. But that was their choice.

They are not the only ones in history who have made foolish decisions in the name of God. Perhaps there will be something for them to come home to - even if it's meager.

They have the right to make foolish decisions, not pay taxes, and lose the right to have use of their property - (just like everyone else).

They do not have the LUXURY of NO consequences.

polywatchin said...

is there a reason that mr jeffs says to not pay tax?

Anonymous said...

Warren has been predicting the destruction of CC/Hildale for years. He has to do something, none of his predictions have come true. There are some FLDS that claim Warren has paid the taxes and this is just a government conspiracy. Warren is making things look like the raid of '53 as much as he can to bring forth his prediction of destruction of the so called sinners left in CC/Hildale. At the end of the day, maybe some will wake up when they see that Warren does not want them or the "crick", never has

fttc said...

Atar

I wish your last line in that post was on a billboard in downtown CC! You hit the nail on that one.

Anonymous said...

What about when someone comes in and just takes over because they claim there are people being abused. They try and take control of everything like it is thier right to. I for one won't pay anything to anyone that usurped property belonging to another person. The Bishop did try to pay the taxes on the property, and they rejected him saying Wison had to do it. Down with so the so called bishop Wison.

Anonymous said...

What about when someone rapes young boys and a whole town covers for him?

Anonymous said...

What about when a whole town steals(food stamps, WIC, HEAT) from this country whenever possible?

Anonymous said...

What about when people dont do what they know is right, and blame it on every one else! THEY LOOSE THEIR HOUSE!

Anonymous said...

Everyone, pay close attention to anon 8:48.

This is what the FLDS leadership is telling the faithfull !!

fttc said...

Anon 8:48

Please tell us more about the bishop's attempts at paying the taxes. Who did he try to pay them to? Who rejected them?

Wisan states in his report that he checked with the county about letting the people pay their taxes direct instead of going through him. He realizes he is hated for what he is doing and is trying his best to accomodate all.

Is he lying to the court? I don't see how anyone can say he is usurping anything. As Atar said, he is not in an enviable position. I can sympathize with his frustration. If you have facts to contradict his statements you owe it to us and everyone involved to make them known.

Anonymous said...

Anoymous said "I for one won't pay anything to anyone that usurped property belonging to another person."

Really? You have been coughing up money for years to a corrupt system who has usurped property belonging to another person. You folks just sat back and had no backbone. Now the wolves are at you door and you are screaming foul.

Just pay your taxes or you are going to lose your homes. Warren knows that will give you power, so he tells you not to pay.
By the way, Warren doesn't care about you. All he cares about is your willingness to cough up thousands of dollars for his scams to deceive the rest of the unfornuates who follow elsewhere.

Anonymous said...

So many of Warren's followers are almost like sheep. They don't pay taxes, they live off of the government and don't even have a real job, many are just hard to employ. They have grown up using a business until it is used up and then they go to their leaders and need more money and the leaders work and work and find someone that will hire some of these people that won't work. Soon another business gets used up and they move on again. Over the years it has been the leaders working with 10% or less of the members, that got the taxes paid. The same is true for the construction of homes, many were built by the church leaders with money from the 10% that knew how to get up and go to work.

Most of the FLDS don't want to do anything else except use up the UEP until it dies and then run off to Texas and say, "We love you Uncle Warren, we endured to the end". Things have been this way for years. Uncle Fred has had to call and call for taxes every year, it was a few that paid the majority every year. Most of the FLDS wouldn't pay taxes to their own church leaders, why are they going to send money to Mr. Wisan. The few companys that are putting out the large amounts of cash, Warren is calling faithful and loyal and using the money elsewhere. Warren has the 10% of the people that he wants, he has been using them for 4 or 5 years now. The suprise waiting this time is Warren is not going to let everyone through his gates at Texas. What a sad day it will be when the FLDS have used up the UEP and destroyed it and are sitting with nothing and Warren won't let them into Texas. If the FLDS could only see the grand work that the founding fathers of the UEP set up with the UEP, but hell no, they can't see it, they would rather cut the baby in two or let it starve.

The homes are as secure today as they have ever been, the problem is there is no church leader to come forth and get the taxes paid. Warren, the current leader of the FLDS hides like a crossbred dog that knows his master is on to him killing a sheep here and a sheep there. Lets go men of the FLDS, get out of bed, stop drinking coffee until noon, go to work and pay they taxes for the place that you live in. This is America, last I knew a guy still had to pay taxes.

someone who cares said...

Anon 9:20

Why did Warren build the place in TX, if he is not going to take his followers in cc/hil with him? It just does not seem to make any sense. Is he planning something in the near future that does not involve the rest of the flds residents? Could there be another reason for him leaving the majority of the "followers" in cc/hil? Maybe he wants to get rid of only a few at a time? maybe a little poison punch at dinner? Hey, I would not put anything past him.

Anonymous said...

There are a few realities that all of you seem to not want to think about. Have any of you ever been held responsible to pay the property tax on land you do not own? The people with homes on the UEP land do not own that land. Until the survey is done there are no property discriptions. Bruce Wisan wants them to sign an occupancy agreement. He should stop saying calling it property taxes. The taxes are owed by the UEP and Wisan needs to collect RENT towards paying those taxes. The people are not any better off than they were before. Those that were not FLDS got bills to pay their portions and the rest was made up by donations from the FLDS congregation. The congregation is no longer part of the equation. It would be interesting to see how the county can sell un-subdivided land for back taxes when the property is a chunk that belongs to one entity and no titles have been given to anyone else. It is easy to say "pay your taxes" there are people that are ready to pay but do not have a bill. Yes, the FLDS did pay a portion last fall. To what pieces of property that was I don't know. This is not a regular land deal-people were given land by one leader, built homes, another person took over, then they were just left hanging out there.

fttc said...

Call it rent or taxes what is the difference if that is all he is charging them for the use of the land anyway. I personally think he will get further calling it taxes owed than he would get charging rent. If the people feel like he is usurping their land now, what would they say if he started to charge them all rent? I know many of these folks and they will pay the taxes before they would pay rent to a government appointed landlord.

On the one hand you sound critical of Wisan, then you say what must be done is just what he is doing. The surveying is being done so individuals can be sent a tax bill. At least this is according to the report Wisan sent to the judge.

fundy said...

Hildale, Colorado City: Cooperate - or else, he tells residents and police
By Brooke Adams The Salt Lake TribuneSalt Lake Tribune
A frustrated Bruce R. Wisan, appointed to oversee a southern Utah polygamous sect's property trust, is ready to play hardball. Faced with hostility from FLDS faithful in the twin towns of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Ariz., Wisan is threatening to evict residents who don't cooperate in paying taxes and other efforts to manage the community's property. He wants police officers who refuse to answer his questions decertified. Wisan also is flexing his court-sanctioned authority to oversee most of what goes on in the twin towns, from building projects to burials in Issac Carling Memorial Cemetery and whether residents move from one home to another, according to a newly filed 68-page report. He also is determining what claim the trust might make on water rights, on businesses that have moved out of the community and on property owned by FLDS members in British Columbia and Beryl, Utah. About 8,000 people live in the towns, home of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The sect follows a 19th century version of Mormonism that includes polygamy. The group set up the United Effort Plan (UEP) trust in 1942 to hold property. It has been under Wisan's management since last May, when Utah authorities successfully argued the trust's assets were in jeopardy because leaders were not responding to several lawsuits. FLDS president Warren Jeffs is wanted by the FBI on an Arizona charge of arranging an underage marriage. The costs of managing the trust are mounting. Since November, expenses - Wisan's fees, those of his attorneys, advisory board members and consultants - totaled some $373,000, leaving $1.2 million from a property sale. Wisan blames FLDS leaders for a "wholesale lack of cooperation and hostility" he has received from followers and local police officers. He expects to seek legal action against former trustees for misconduct. And he wants Utah and Arizona authorities to decertify police officers for not cooperating in an investigation of missing UEP property. "It is simply incredible to think that a certified police officer would refuse to answer such basic questions regarding their duties as law enforcement officers," Wisan states in his report, adding he expects to get little help from them in stopping thefts. Lack of cooperation also has made collection of property taxes difficult, Wisan said. The FLDS church paid only some taxes due in Utah and Arizona last November, leaving a deficit of just over $500,000. More are due in Arizona in April. The tax shortfall is already causing financial difficulties for the two towns and the Colorado City Unified School District. "They financially are hurting out there because of the political situation and taxes not being paid," said Cal Robison, Washington County clerk. In the past, the FLDS church collected donations from followers to cover property taxes. Wisan is in the process of having the community surveyed - a task that probably will be completed by June at a cost of $350,000 to $400,000. Meantime, he has sent notices to residents urging them to pay their share of taxes either directly to him or to the counties. "The fiduciary reserves the right to relocate and/or evict those who refuse to pay taxes," the document states. Evictions also may be necessary if people refuse to cooperate with his "reasonable requests" or if they engage in any illegal activity - that is, any activity not compatible with new UEP standards, he said. Polygamy, however, "is not something that would cause one to be evicted from UEP assets," Wisan told The Salt Lake Tribune. "The state is not prosecuting polygamy and certainly the new UEP under the special fiduciary is not prosecuting polygamy." As part of sorting out who lives where and is responsible for taxes, Wisan has subpoenaed records of the Twin City Power Company but has been told by an attorney for the utility that it will fight that request. Wisan also said he now believes that house trading should not occur without his knowledge and consent. In fact, he plans to do a little shuffling of his own. Vacant homes are popping up throughout the community, something that in Colorado City, at least, "is just unheard of," said Don Timpson, a resident of the town. "It feels to me there are fewer people here." Wisan said he will rent vacant homes to those willing to sign occupancy agreements and pay taxes, though he disputes some ownership claims former residents are making. Among them: Ezra Draper, who purchased a mobile home he placed on UEP property before becoming disillusioned with FLDS leader Warren Jeffs and moving to Idaho. Wisan said that home now belongs to the UEP, though he is willing to let Draper live there - particularly since the current resident has ignored Wisan's requests for information. Wisan plans to relocate that family to free the home for Draper. Timpson, who serves on the UEP's new advisory board, said FLDS faithful continue to live in denial about what is happening to the community. "They are hoping it will go away," said Timpson, who belongs to Centennial Park, a separate Mormon fundamentalist group. "The reality is the courts have stepped in and taken control of this trust and if the people aren't going to recognize the legitimacy of the court, what are we going to do? "Much of our discussion has been how can we protect the rights of the FLDS people," Timpson said, "even though they have not at this point stepped forward to represent themselves." brooke@sltrib.com

onthestreet said...

Anonymous said...
Does anyone think that the new fiduciary is interested in the rights of the FLDS people?

MR. OR MRS. ANONYMOUS
Your post should say "Is Warren Jeffs and his elite followers interested in the rights of the FLDS people?...
There would of been no Bruce Wisen if Warren had taken care of business. If Warren Jeffs was interested in the rights of the FLDS people he would kept the money home and built up Zion there and not gone elsewhere. 3/07/2006 3:30 PM

STREET’s Reply: No Wisen if Warren had taken care of business? That’s just the thing. He took care of the business of the Lord and the law of the land in pulling up the stakes of those who were abusing the women and children, and continued to pull up stakes like Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob did in ancient times, to leave the abuses behind, and follow the directives of the Lord Himself. The Lord is not answerable to you people, for sure.

onthestreet said...

Jax said... 3/07/2006 4:33 PM
Does anyone think that the new fiduciary is interested in the rights of the FLDS people? PAY YOUR DAMN TAXES! You're in the U.S. and you have to pay them. I don't understand this "they're pickin' on meeeee" mentality. Pay your taxes or lose your house. It's the way it is everywhere.

STREET’s Reply: That community is water under the bridge, like Lot of old leaving Sodom. The wheat is gathering out, and the rest is just fodder for the tiller. The UEP always paid the taxes for the people, but half the people NEVER DID contribute their part in the United Effort. Those are the ones who remain in the cauldron. Now, the will have to PAY THEIR DAMN TAXES, for sure, huh Jax. Very good point there.

onthestreet said...

Anonymous said... 3/07/2006 7:10 PM
Warren has been predicting the destruction of CC/Hildale for years. He has to do something, none of his predictions have come true. There are some FLDS that claim Warren has paid the taxes and this is just a government conspiracy. Warren is making things look like the raid of '53 as much as he can to bring forth his prediction of destruction of the so called sinners left in CC/Hildale. At the end of the day, maybe some will wake up when they see that Warren does not want them or the "crick", never has


STREET’s Reply: The amazing thing is, ALL HIS PREDICTIONS COME TRUE, just not how you demand them to. The Prophet is not making things look like anything but what they are. He just minded his business there, in cast off the abuser, and continues to mind his business. The people have known all along that the Lord said He would cut His Work short, including the Short Creek, especially that.

onthestreet said...

Anonymous said (3/08/2006 8:08 AM):
Just pay your taxes or you are going to lose your homes. Warren knows that will give you power, so he tells you not to pay. By the way, Warren doesn't care about you. All he cares about is your willingness to cough up thousands of dollars for his scams to deceive the rest of the unfornuates who follow elsewhere.


STREET’s Reply: Pay or lose the house? The whole LDS Church tried to pawn a mansion onto their President John Taylor in the 1880’s, and he told them where they could stick the mansion. They had rejected the Lord, and the Lord rejected them. It is the FLDS belief that we are to “sacrifice all earthly things”. That is EVERYONE’s belief, if you are Christian. Then the Prophet knows that will give you power with the Lord, and he will have won another soul. It is only the devil in people that tries to tell them the Prophet of God doesn’t care about them.

As for them coughing up thousands of dollars, the Lord has always required that. The is what you all believe, that is if you are Christian. It is called not only tithes, but offerings, and not just part but ALL, “to dedicate our all to the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth”. Sound familiar? Very familiar to all in the know.

Anonymous said...

STREET’s Reply: No Wisen if Warren had taken care of business? That’s just the thing. He took care of the business of the Lord and the law of the land in pulling up the stakes of those who were abusing the women and children, and continued to pull up stakes like Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob did in ancient times, to leave the abuses behind, and follow the directives of the Lord Himself. The Lord is not answerable to you people, for sure.

3/09/2006 4:18 AM

STREET WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN WHEN THE ABUSES FOLLOWS. IT IS A CANCER AND YOUR LORD WARREN CANNOT CUT IT OUT. INFACT SOME OF HIS VERY FAITHFUL ARE ABUSERS.

A LIE IS A LIE AND WARREN IS A FATHER OF LIES.

ATAR_i said...

Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars

God commands you to pay the taxes - interesting that you chose to stand on a soapbox about an issue that is so specifically mentioned in the Bible.

onthestreet said...

Right on! And as long as the FLDS was there as the UEP, they paid most faithfully. The state and county were very impressed, and often stated so. But now, the land is NOT in Warren's hands. So why pay for what even you all claim is NOT HIS. Are you really that dumb? Come on now, some of you got past kindergarden, did you not.

No soap here, just alot of slippery, tricky, dickies. If you had soap, you'd be clean. But thanks for acknowledging my own soap, and by deduction my cleanliness.

As for you, Nonny(3/09/2006 6:34 AM): What do you mean "WHEN" the abuse follows. We are all human, and not yet absolutely perfect. But the Prophet has proven that he can sift and sift until the sifting is done. The world can sure attest to that, and this sifting has produced a mighty good people, Yearning For Zion.

fttc said...

Street it is interesting you would bring up the story of the mansion JT did not want. Rulon Jeffs told me and others on several occasions that his 'mansion' in CC was thrust upon him! Whose example was being followed? Difference was the FLDS wouldn't take no for an answer. Kind of like when they made warren the King.

ATAR_i said...

I'm not talking about warren paying taxes - I'm talking about the people living on the land.

If they don't want the land, and they don't claim it as their own, then they are tresspassing, and they should leave.

It's simple - if it's yours - you live there and pay taxes.

If it's not - you don't pay taxes and you leave.

What do you suggest the people do OTS?


You can't claim it's YOURS, then claim you don't have to pay taxes on it BECAUSE IT'S NOT YOURS.

Bruce Wisan said...

In response to ogre wanting to know if his family has paid their property taxes, I believe it is important for me to maintain strict confidentiality with regard to payment of property taxes. I don't want there to be any repercussions for any FLDS that do pay the taxes. Certainly it is possible for anyone to pay the taxes. Ogre could pay taxes in behalf of his family and they could eventually have a "credit" when the surveying and assessing by individual lot is completed for the year 2007 if it is found that too much has been paid in their behalf.

I have stated before and will state again that the counties have never rejected FLDS property tax payments. To think that is not rational. Both counties are having financial problems because of the failure of the UEP to pay property taxes. I have never rejected the payment of property taxes and in fact have spent considerable time and effort in attempting to collect property taxes. FLDS leadership has decided not to collect or pay the property taxes.

I have contacted both counties to arrange that individual FLDS can make payments directly to the counties and bypass me. This process allows the FLDS to avoid dealing with anyone involved in the court process, per Warren's instructions, but allows the FLDS to pay the taxes. Hopefully that process will make the payment of taxes more palatable for the FLDS.

To make a payment, an individual must first go to the assessor's office with his/her name and address. From the address, the assessor's office will locate the parcel number and give it to the individual. The individual would then write a check and put the parcel number on the check and take it to the treasurer's office.
The amount of the check should be the amount calculated by the assessor's office for the house PLUS a prorata portion of the land assessment. In a 40 acre parcel, for example, an individual would typically include 1/40th of the assessed 40 acre land parcel for the one acre lot that is typically assigned to each household.

I hope this clarifies my intentions with property taxes. I have tried to be as transparent as possible in all my dealings as fiduciary, but I realize that there will always be different reactions to anything I say or do. I have tried to have consideration for the FLDS in decisions that are made.

I am at a point in time now, however, that I believe I have no choice but to place people in houses that WILL pay property taxes. I will be contacting selected houses in the next 2-3 weeks to give the residents the opportunity of paying property taxes or I will seek to legally remove them.

Anyone that has any specific questions is able to call me at (801)328-2011. Parenthetically, I hope to have a UEP website up and running sometime in the next couple of weeks.

Bruce Wisan

onthestreet said...

ATAR_i said... 3/09/2006 4:25 PM:
That the point I made earlier. The taxes were paid by the Prophet’s agent when it was a United Effort Plan. When Mr Wisan wisely took over for the state, he’s just doing what Uncle Warren did: Rejecting any false claim of people squatting without supporting. So that is NO UNITED EFFORT, call it what you will Mr. Wisan. But to blame the Prophet for the sins of individuals is like taking the governor to court and to jail because a state employee commits a crime. Squatters have no claim, I don’t care if they squat on the name FLDS or not, but of those who are actually supporting the Work of the Prophet, they have the ownership or stewardship over the land through the Prophet, if Mr. Wisan and the courts want to be legit and find any favor with the Lord. Otherwise, they are just as vulnerable as any other squatter when God the Father of us all does what He is going to do, what He decreed he would do.

onthestreet said...

Tarry didn't say the above. I just posted the date of her post, and replied. Sorry for the mixup.

ATAR_i said...

LOL - that doesn't sound like me does it?

fundy said...

MR. Wisan,

How do you go about placing someone in a home that will pay the taxes?? Do they have to be FLDS???? Do the homes go up for rent?? Is there a waiting list?? What is the procedure going to be??? With the FLDS having a history of using retaliation and sometimes destroying homes, I would think it a real possibility that they would set fire to them before going along with this kind of a deal. And whoever might try and live in them may have some real questions about how safe an idea that may be. It may be true that the state is trying to take over but there is still some very devote and misguided souls who seem to think themselves as an army of heaven, religious fanatics have certainly been there and may still be there.

Bruce Wisan said...

Without going into a lot of details, it would probably be easier for someone that is willing to pay property taxes on a house to contact Jethro. He can explain what I am trying to implement and can put you onto a list. There will be no rent, but there will be some reimbursement of costs besides the property taxes. Religion is not a factor.

fundy said...

Well I have mixed feelings on this.
The people with means to do so have probably already taken care of this problem or have left. The ones that are unable to pay are proabably the ones that are left. And if they have not the funds to pay they will probably just be on some welfare system. Probably should have Arizona welfare system workers takes a closer look at this problem. The states ought to come in and sort it out. There are alot of children in this community that need some consideration. I think the human element should take priority over the almighty dollar. Unless this the way the state thinks it can rid itself of this problem.

ATAR_i said...

Hey fundy - you've got ideas - share them.

TAXES pay for ssi, food stamps, welfare and all that stuff that some of Colorado Cities residents need.

So, there's gonna be a tax, someone has to pay. It doesn't matter who. But the people who suffer, will be the ones who are living on the property whose taxes aren't being paid. (by themsleves or anyone else).

ex creeker said...

Mr Wisan, I was just reading on the Nevada Poligamy site(http://nvpolygamy.blogspot.com)that the potatoe processing equipment from CC was taken to the Harker ranch there. Was this before the takeover or after?