FLDS Prophet Warren Jeffs may be serving life in prison, but his followers continue with their work on the YFZ Ranch near Eldorado, Texas where the group's white limestone Temple towers over the town they are building. Polygamy, the practice of plural marriage, appears to be alive and well in the Lone Star State, despite laws to the contrary.
Tuesday, March 07, 2006
Trustee of FLDS is out of patience
Article Last Updated: 3/20/2006 03:05 AM Trustee of FLDS is out of patience Hildale, Colorado City: Cooperate - or else, he tells residents and police By Brooke Adams The Salt Lake TribuneSalt Lake Tribune See complete article in comments.
Hey Fundy-- Could you edit your post and at least put most of the body of the article inside the thread? It is a pain to have that much to scroll thru when looking at titles.
Bruce Wisan the trustee appointed by the courts threatens to get tough with FLDS, threatening to have people evicted for not paying taxes and to have police officers in Colorado City, AZ/Hildale, UT removed from police force if they don't cooperate. This sets up confrontation, although article mentions that many homes are now empty. IMO they must have went somewhere, perhaps YFZ and the "temple of doom" down in Texas? From Trib article:
"Wisan is threatening to evict residents who don't cooperate in paying taxes and other efforts to manage the community's property. He wants police officers who refuse to answer his questions decertified."
http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_3576778
Also read this report: http://extras.sltrib.com/specials/po...tus_report.pdf
Have you read the report on the link above? It sounds to me as if he is trying his best to be fair and not trample on the rights of anyone. Read his report to the court before you decide.
I think the question is do the FLDS people want to stand up for their rights or will they throw them away and take in their place the directives they seem to be getting from leadership?
Will they follow the advice of warren and thumb their noses at the law until they have no homes left? Unfortunately if history is any indication the majority of them will be evicted for non-compliance and then claim the government is persecuting them for their religion.
Anonymous said... Does anyone think that the new fiduciary is interested in the rights of the FLDS people?
MR. OR MRS. ANONYMOUS Your post should say "Is Warren Jeffs and his elite followers interested in the rights of the FLDS people?
NO...NO....NO...NO
There would of been no Bruce Wisen if Warren had taken care of business.
If Warren Jeffs was interested in the rights of the FLDS people he would kept the money home and built up Zion there and not gone elsewhere.
He could be an activist and fight for his right to be a polygamist instead of hiding away.
Hey he could of been like ol Joseph Musser, go to jail and then get released by signing a statement he would not be a polygamist no more and then go on to live the lifestyle. He was a real winner.
Does anyone think that the new fiduciary is interested in the rights of the FLDS people?
PAY YOUR DAMN TAXES! You're in the U.S. and you have to pay them. I don't understand this "they're pickin' on meeeee" mentality. Pay your taxes or lose your house. It's the way it is everywhere.
The FLDS are aware they need to pay their taxes. They won't be able to claim persecution on this point.
Despite the fact that they are probably being manipulated to some extent, they are adults - and most didn't just *fall* into the situation, they chose it.
If the men choose to pay taxes, they could potentially lose all of their wives and children (a hefty price to pay, they might just choose to lose the house instead) <----but that's a choice - a tough one, but never the less a choice.
If a woman paid taxes behind her man's back - would he suffer the consequences for not controlling her, or would they suffer any at all?
Of course, I highly doubt that women, who have been raised in the manner that many of these women have - would consider such an option.
When they all wake up, and realize what's happened to them, they will not be able to walk back into the same situation they threw away to follow 'the prophet'. But that was their choice.
They are not the only ones in history who have made foolish decisions in the name of God. Perhaps there will be something for them to come home to - even if it's meager.
They have the right to make foolish decisions, not pay taxes, and lose the right to have use of their property - (just like everyone else).
Warren has been predicting the destruction of CC/Hildale for years. He has to do something, none of his predictions have come true. There are some FLDS that claim Warren has paid the taxes and this is just a government conspiracy. Warren is making things look like the raid of '53 as much as he can to bring forth his prediction of destruction of the so called sinners left in CC/Hildale. At the end of the day, maybe some will wake up when they see that Warren does not want them or the "crick", never has
What about when someone comes in and just takes over because they claim there are people being abused. They try and take control of everything like it is thier right to. I for one won't pay anything to anyone that usurped property belonging to another person. The Bishop did try to pay the taxes on the property, and they rejected him saying Wison had to do it. Down with so the so called bishop Wison.
Please tell us more about the bishop's attempts at paying the taxes. Who did he try to pay them to? Who rejected them?
Wisan states in his report that he checked with the county about letting the people pay their taxes direct instead of going through him. He realizes he is hated for what he is doing and is trying his best to accomodate all.
Is he lying to the court? I don't see how anyone can say he is usurping anything. As Atar said, he is not in an enviable position. I can sympathize with his frustration. If you have facts to contradict his statements you owe it to us and everyone involved to make them known.
Anoymous said "I for one won't pay anything to anyone that usurped property belonging to another person."
Really? You have been coughing up money for years to a corrupt system who has usurped property belonging to another person. You folks just sat back and had no backbone. Now the wolves are at you door and you are screaming foul.
Just pay your taxes or you are going to lose your homes. Warren knows that will give you power, so he tells you not to pay. By the way, Warren doesn't care about you. All he cares about is your willingness to cough up thousands of dollars for his scams to deceive the rest of the unfornuates who follow elsewhere.
So many of Warren's followers are almost like sheep. They don't pay taxes, they live off of the government and don't even have a real job, many are just hard to employ. They have grown up using a business until it is used up and then they go to their leaders and need more money and the leaders work and work and find someone that will hire some of these people that won't work. Soon another business gets used up and they move on again. Over the years it has been the leaders working with 10% or less of the members, that got the taxes paid. The same is true for the construction of homes, many were built by the church leaders with money from the 10% that knew how to get up and go to work.
Most of the FLDS don't want to do anything else except use up the UEP until it dies and then run off to Texas and say, "We love you Uncle Warren, we endured to the end". Things have been this way for years. Uncle Fred has had to call and call for taxes every year, it was a few that paid the majority every year. Most of the FLDS wouldn't pay taxes to their own church leaders, why are they going to send money to Mr. Wisan. The few companys that are putting out the large amounts of cash, Warren is calling faithful and loyal and using the money elsewhere. Warren has the 10% of the people that he wants, he has been using them for 4 or 5 years now. The suprise waiting this time is Warren is not going to let everyone through his gates at Texas. What a sad day it will be when the FLDS have used up the UEP and destroyed it and are sitting with nothing and Warren won't let them into Texas. If the FLDS could only see the grand work that the founding fathers of the UEP set up with the UEP, but hell no, they can't see it, they would rather cut the baby in two or let it starve.
The homes are as secure today as they have ever been, the problem is there is no church leader to come forth and get the taxes paid. Warren, the current leader of the FLDS hides like a crossbred dog that knows his master is on to him killing a sheep here and a sheep there. Lets go men of the FLDS, get out of bed, stop drinking coffee until noon, go to work and pay they taxes for the place that you live in. This is America, last I knew a guy still had to pay taxes.
Why did Warren build the place in TX, if he is not going to take his followers in cc/hil with him? It just does not seem to make any sense. Is he planning something in the near future that does not involve the rest of the flds residents? Could there be another reason for him leaving the majority of the "followers" in cc/hil? Maybe he wants to get rid of only a few at a time? maybe a little poison punch at dinner? Hey, I would not put anything past him.
There are a few realities that all of you seem to not want to think about. Have any of you ever been held responsible to pay the property tax on land you do not own? The people with homes on the UEP land do not own that land. Until the survey is done there are no property discriptions. Bruce Wisan wants them to sign an occupancy agreement. He should stop saying calling it property taxes. The taxes are owed by the UEP and Wisan needs to collect RENT towards paying those taxes. The people are not any better off than they were before. Those that were not FLDS got bills to pay their portions and the rest was made up by donations from the FLDS congregation. The congregation is no longer part of the equation. It would be interesting to see how the county can sell un-subdivided land for back taxes when the property is a chunk that belongs to one entity and no titles have been given to anyone else. It is easy to say "pay your taxes" there are people that are ready to pay but do not have a bill. Yes, the FLDS did pay a portion last fall. To what pieces of property that was I don't know. This is not a regular land deal-people were given land by one leader, built homes, another person took over, then they were just left hanging out there.
Call it rent or taxes what is the difference if that is all he is charging them for the use of the land anyway. I personally think he will get further calling it taxes owed than he would get charging rent. If the people feel like he is usurping their land now, what would they say if he started to charge them all rent? I know many of these folks and they will pay the taxes before they would pay rent to a government appointed landlord.
On the one hand you sound critical of Wisan, then you say what must be done is just what he is doing. The surveying is being done so individuals can be sent a tax bill. At least this is according to the report Wisan sent to the judge.
STREET’s Reply: No Wisen if Warren had taken care of business? That’s just the thing. He took care of the business of the Lord and the law of the land in pulling up the stakes of those who were abusing the women and children, and continued to pull up stakes like Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob did in ancient times, to leave the abuses behind, and follow the directives of the Lord Himself. The Lord is not answerable to you people, for sure.
3/09/2006 4:18 AM
STREET WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN WHEN THE ABUSES FOLLOWS. IT IS A CANCER AND YOUR LORD WARREN CANNOT CUT IT OUT. INFACT SOME OF HIS VERY FAITHFUL ARE ABUSERS.
Street it is interesting you would bring up the story of the mansion JT did not want. Rulon Jeffs told me and others on several occasions that his 'mansion' in CC was thrust upon him! Whose example was being followed? Difference was the FLDS wouldn't take no for an answer. Kind of like when they made warren the King.
TAXES pay for ssi, food stamps, welfare and all that stuff that some of Colorado Cities residents need.
So, there's gonna be a tax, someone has to pay. It doesn't matter who. But the people who suffer, will be the ones who are living on the property whose taxes aren't being paid. (by themsleves or anyone else).
Mr Wisan, I was just reading on the Nevada Poligamy site(http://nvpolygamy.blogspot.com)that the potatoe processing equipment from CC was taken to the Harker ranch there. Was this before the takeover or after?
30 comments:
Mr. Wisan:
Could I find out if my family has paid there taxes? Could I help with those taxes? I would like to know
Hey Fundy-- Could you edit your post and at least put most of the body of the article inside the thread? It is a pain to have that much to scroll thru when looking at titles.
BTW, thanks for the heads up on this one!
Bruce Wisan the trustee appointed by the courts threatens to get tough with FLDS, threatening to have people evicted for not paying taxes and to have police officers in Colorado City, AZ/Hildale, UT removed from police force if they don't cooperate. This sets up confrontation, although article mentions that many homes are now empty. IMO they must have went somewhere, perhaps YFZ and the "temple of doom" down in Texas?
From Trib article:
"Wisan is threatening to evict residents who don't cooperate in paying taxes and other efforts to manage the community's property. He wants police officers who refuse to answer his questions decertified."
http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_3576778
Also read this report: http://extras.sltrib.com/specials/po...tus_report.pdf
This report from Wisan makes a fascinating read.
Try this link to read court report, cut & paste to browser.
http://extras.sltrib.com/specials/polygamy/other/UEP_2nd_status_report.pdf
Does anyone think that the new fiduciary is interested in the rights of the FLDS people?
Have you read the report on the link above? It sounds to me as if he is trying his best to be fair and not trample on the rights of anyone. Read his report to the court before you decide.
I think the question is do the FLDS people want to stand up for their rights or will they throw them away and take in their place the directives they seem to be getting from leadership?
Will they follow the advice of warren and thumb their noses at the law until they have no homes left? Unfortunately if history is any indication the majority of them will be evicted for non-compliance and then claim the government is persecuting them for their religion.
That's a tough one - I don't envy the guy.
Anonymous said...
Does anyone think that the new fiduciary is interested in the rights of the FLDS people?
MR. OR MRS. ANONYMOUS
Your post should say
"Is Warren Jeffs and his elite followers interested in the rights of the FLDS people?
NO...NO....NO...NO
There would of been no Bruce Wisen if Warren had taken care of business.
If Warren Jeffs was interested in the rights of the FLDS people he would kept the money home and built up Zion there and not gone elsewhere.
He could be an activist and fight for his right to be a polygamist instead of hiding away.
Hey he could of been like ol Joseph Musser, go to jail and then get released by signing a statement he would not be a polygamist no more and then go on to live the lifestyle. He was a real winner.
Does anyone think that the new fiduciary is interested in the rights of the FLDS people?
PAY YOUR DAMN TAXES! You're in the U.S. and you have to pay them. I don't understand this "they're pickin' on meeeee" mentality. Pay your taxes or lose your house. It's the way it is everywhere.
The FLDS are aware they need to pay their taxes. They won't be able to claim persecution on this point.
Despite the fact that they are probably being manipulated to some extent, they are adults - and most didn't just *fall* into the situation, they chose it.
If the men choose to pay taxes, they could potentially lose all of their wives and children (a hefty price to pay, they might just choose to lose the house instead) <----but that's a choice - a tough one, but never the less a choice.
If a woman paid taxes behind her man's back - would he suffer the consequences for not controlling her, or would they suffer any at all?
Of course, I highly doubt that women, who have been raised in the manner that many of these women have - would consider such an option.
When they all wake up, and realize what's happened to them, they will not be able to walk back into the same situation they threw away to follow 'the prophet'. But that was their choice.
They are not the only ones in history who have made foolish decisions in the name of God. Perhaps there will be something for them to come home to - even if it's meager.
They have the right to make foolish decisions, not pay taxes, and lose the right to have use of their property - (just like everyone else).
They do not have the LUXURY of NO consequences.
Warren has been predicting the destruction of CC/Hildale for years. He has to do something, none of his predictions have come true. There are some FLDS that claim Warren has paid the taxes and this is just a government conspiracy. Warren is making things look like the raid of '53 as much as he can to bring forth his prediction of destruction of the so called sinners left in CC/Hildale. At the end of the day, maybe some will wake up when they see that Warren does not want them or the "crick", never has
Atar
I wish your last line in that post was on a billboard in downtown CC! You hit the nail on that one.
What about when someone comes in and just takes over because they claim there are people being abused. They try and take control of everything like it is thier right to. I for one won't pay anything to anyone that usurped property belonging to another person. The Bishop did try to pay the taxes on the property, and they rejected him saying Wison had to do it. Down with so the so called bishop Wison.
What about when someone rapes young boys and a whole town covers for him?
What about when a whole town steals(food stamps, WIC, HEAT) from this country whenever possible?
What about when people dont do what they know is right, and blame it on every one else! THEY LOOSE THEIR HOUSE!
Everyone, pay close attention to anon 8:48.
This is what the FLDS leadership is telling the faithfull !!
Anon 8:48
Please tell us more about the bishop's attempts at paying the taxes. Who did he try to pay them to? Who rejected them?
Wisan states in his report that he checked with the county about letting the people pay their taxes direct instead of going through him. He realizes he is hated for what he is doing and is trying his best to accomodate all.
Is he lying to the court? I don't see how anyone can say he is usurping anything. As Atar said, he is not in an enviable position. I can sympathize with his frustration. If you have facts to contradict his statements you owe it to us and everyone involved to make them known.
Anoymous said "I for one won't pay anything to anyone that usurped property belonging to another person."
Really? You have been coughing up money for years to a corrupt system who has usurped property belonging to another person. You folks just sat back and had no backbone. Now the wolves are at you door and you are screaming foul.
Just pay your taxes or you are going to lose your homes. Warren knows that will give you power, so he tells you not to pay.
By the way, Warren doesn't care about you. All he cares about is your willingness to cough up thousands of dollars for his scams to deceive the rest of the unfornuates who follow elsewhere.
So many of Warren's followers are almost like sheep. They don't pay taxes, they live off of the government and don't even have a real job, many are just hard to employ. They have grown up using a business until it is used up and then they go to their leaders and need more money and the leaders work and work and find someone that will hire some of these people that won't work. Soon another business gets used up and they move on again. Over the years it has been the leaders working with 10% or less of the members, that got the taxes paid. The same is true for the construction of homes, many were built by the church leaders with money from the 10% that knew how to get up and go to work.
Most of the FLDS don't want to do anything else except use up the UEP until it dies and then run off to Texas and say, "We love you Uncle Warren, we endured to the end". Things have been this way for years. Uncle Fred has had to call and call for taxes every year, it was a few that paid the majority every year. Most of the FLDS wouldn't pay taxes to their own church leaders, why are they going to send money to Mr. Wisan. The few companys that are putting out the large amounts of cash, Warren is calling faithful and loyal and using the money elsewhere. Warren has the 10% of the people that he wants, he has been using them for 4 or 5 years now. The suprise waiting this time is Warren is not going to let everyone through his gates at Texas. What a sad day it will be when the FLDS have used up the UEP and destroyed it and are sitting with nothing and Warren won't let them into Texas. If the FLDS could only see the grand work that the founding fathers of the UEP set up with the UEP, but hell no, they can't see it, they would rather cut the baby in two or let it starve.
The homes are as secure today as they have ever been, the problem is there is no church leader to come forth and get the taxes paid. Warren, the current leader of the FLDS hides like a crossbred dog that knows his master is on to him killing a sheep here and a sheep there. Lets go men of the FLDS, get out of bed, stop drinking coffee until noon, go to work and pay they taxes for the place that you live in. This is America, last I knew a guy still had to pay taxes.
Anon 9:20
Why did Warren build the place in TX, if he is not going to take his followers in cc/hil with him? It just does not seem to make any sense. Is he planning something in the near future that does not involve the rest of the flds residents? Could there be another reason for him leaving the majority of the "followers" in cc/hil? Maybe he wants to get rid of only a few at a time? maybe a little poison punch at dinner? Hey, I would not put anything past him.
There are a few realities that all of you seem to not want to think about. Have any of you ever been held responsible to pay the property tax on land you do not own? The people with homes on the UEP land do not own that land. Until the survey is done there are no property discriptions. Bruce Wisan wants them to sign an occupancy agreement. He should stop saying calling it property taxes. The taxes are owed by the UEP and Wisan needs to collect RENT towards paying those taxes. The people are not any better off than they were before. Those that were not FLDS got bills to pay their portions and the rest was made up by donations from the FLDS congregation. The congregation is no longer part of the equation. It would be interesting to see how the county can sell un-subdivided land for back taxes when the property is a chunk that belongs to one entity and no titles have been given to anyone else. It is easy to say "pay your taxes" there are people that are ready to pay but do not have a bill. Yes, the FLDS did pay a portion last fall. To what pieces of property that was I don't know. This is not a regular land deal-people were given land by one leader, built homes, another person took over, then they were just left hanging out there.
Call it rent or taxes what is the difference if that is all he is charging them for the use of the land anyway. I personally think he will get further calling it taxes owed than he would get charging rent. If the people feel like he is usurping their land now, what would they say if he started to charge them all rent? I know many of these folks and they will pay the taxes before they would pay rent to a government appointed landlord.
On the one hand you sound critical of Wisan, then you say what must be done is just what he is doing. The surveying is being done so individuals can be sent a tax bill. At least this is according to the report Wisan sent to the judge.
STREET’s Reply: No Wisen if Warren had taken care of business? That’s just the thing. He took care of the business of the Lord and the law of the land in pulling up the stakes of those who were abusing the women and children, and continued to pull up stakes like Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob did in ancient times, to leave the abuses behind, and follow the directives of the Lord Himself. The Lord is not answerable to you people, for sure.
3/09/2006 4:18 AM
STREET WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN WHEN THE ABUSES FOLLOWS. IT IS A CANCER AND YOUR LORD WARREN CANNOT CUT IT OUT. INFACT SOME OF HIS VERY FAITHFUL ARE ABUSERS.
A LIE IS A LIE AND WARREN IS A FATHER OF LIES.
Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars
God commands you to pay the taxes - interesting that you chose to stand on a soapbox about an issue that is so specifically mentioned in the Bible.
Street it is interesting you would bring up the story of the mansion JT did not want. Rulon Jeffs told me and others on several occasions that his 'mansion' in CC was thrust upon him! Whose example was being followed? Difference was the FLDS wouldn't take no for an answer. Kind of like when they made warren the King.
I'm not talking about warren paying taxes - I'm talking about the people living on the land.
If they don't want the land, and they don't claim it as their own, then they are tresspassing, and they should leave.
It's simple - if it's yours - you live there and pay taxes.
If it's not - you don't pay taxes and you leave.
What do you suggest the people do OTS?
You can't claim it's YOURS, then claim you don't have to pay taxes on it BECAUSE IT'S NOT YOURS.
LOL - that doesn't sound like me does it?
Hey fundy - you've got ideas - share them.
TAXES pay for ssi, food stamps, welfare and all that stuff that some of Colorado Cities residents need.
So, there's gonna be a tax, someone has to pay. It doesn't matter who. But the people who suffer, will be the ones who are living on the property whose taxes aren't being paid. (by themsleves or anyone else).
Mr Wisan, I was just reading on the Nevada Poligamy site(http://nvpolygamy.blogspot.com)that the potatoe processing equipment from CC was taken to the Harker ranch there. Was this before the takeover or after?
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