Tuesday, January 10, 2006

FLDS The real world comes Knocking

By newspaper accounts the FLDS who are not paying property tax will have the opportunity to have their property sold at auction come 2007. Maybe then some rationality will take hold of the members of the FLDS faithfull. They certainly need something to bring them into reality.

38 comments:

Anonymous said...

They are paying their taxes in CASH in Eldorado Texas. Maybe the FLDS doesn't care anymore about Arizona or Utah.

Anonymous said...

I have a question for you Fundy.

You seem to know about the "second ward". Is their property taxes paid individually or as a group as in Shortcreek?

Maybe some 2nd warders can pickup some old home places.

Faithful Woman said...

The fiduciary is working at getting the property surveyed so that we can pay individually on the property that we occupy. As it is now, paying our own taxes would do no good unless we paid for the whole section. The section my house is on has four houses and it is a small one.

fundy said...

The newspaper seemed to indicate that if the taxes were not payed they could auction the property off. I think that would seem to give ownership to the person who lives on the property. You would think if they do that they could also sell the property and move to texas if they want. You probably should get with the other people on your section and pay the taxes.

furnace said...

As I understand it, the tax on the property is still a block sum on the entire trust, so even sending money won't avoid late charges to the trust as a whole if FLDS don't pay their taxes.

I consider it a step in the right direction, though.

fundy said...

well it is possible to pay taxes on your particular property cause I know people doing it. And they are in the UEP trust area.

fttc said...

Faithful

Is it even a possibility for you to get with the others on your section? Aren't some of them still with warren?

Anonymous said...

If all the property is currently owned by the UEP, and certain individuals make sure the tax on their respective piece of property is paid, won't this just insure that the UEP does not lose that particular property? I guess my question should be: Can the taxes be paid for a certain part of the property and not the rest? Will the state do a partial tax sale?

Wondering how safe I am.

Bruce Wisan said...

The taxes cannot be paid on only a portion of a particular parcel of property at this time. It is all or nothing. If there are 15 houses on a particular parcel and 14 houses pay property taxes but nobody pays the tax on the last house and nobody pays the tax on the land itself (right now the property tax assessments are calculated on just the houses and not the land under the houses and the land on the entire parcel is taxed in one lump sum)then the entire parcel is still delinquent. If not cured in 5 years, then the entire parcel (in my example all 15 houses) would be delinquent and would be sold by the county for delinquent back taxes. There are no partial tax sales.

This is why it is so important to get the lot surveys done so that each house AND THE LAND associated with each house be surveyed, assessed and taxed individually. Then each resident will be held accountable for the property taxes on the house they are currently occupying. If property taxes are not paid, including any proportionate remedies of delinquent taxes, then I will have to find somebody to live in the house that will pay property taxes. That is my official position based on testimony in court, based on my report submitted to the court, and what I elaborated in the town meeting I held in Hildale.

I am currently talking with both counties about reassessing the tax delinquency for each parcel into the individually surveyed lots. If everything goes according to plan then the scenario of anonymouns posted at 3:35 will be possible. That is why it is so important to get the surveys completed. If all goes well, the field work for the surveys will begin in approximately two weeks and will be completed in 3-4 months.

Note that in all court cases involving eviction where the UEP was trying to evict individuals from houses and failed, the MINIMUM requirement the courts required for residents to remain in a particular house was the payment of property taxes.

I can be contacted at bwisan@wsrp.com

Anonymous said...

BRW

Thank you for your input. Please keep us posted on future developments.

fundy said...

"then I will have to find somebody to live in the house that will pay property taxes" so the idea is to avoid a property being sold by the county at auction. By finding residents of the UEP who will pay taxes? There are quite a few people who have been forced from their homes over the years by the FLDS. Would they have an option to reclaim property???

Anonymous said...

Hire an attorney who is a specialist in real estate and ask him to get you clear title to the property you wish to own free and clear. Pay taxes and keep those taxes paid annually. Quit playing the gossip game of he said she said. Don't depend upon any elected official to give a final word. Get an attorney, who will act in your behalf. Several of you may hire an attorney collectivly to act in your behalf as a community. A court will be the final authority regarding ownership. If you have documents entitling you as owner then you have a much stronger case to stay upon the property without eviction.

fttc said...

Are you an attorney? Actually I have had my fill of attorneys. Our people have paid literally millions to attorneys in the last fifteen years. Has it helped us even a little bit? I don't think so. Wisan has just told us basically that he is making it so those on UEP property can pay their taxes and not be evicted. What does anyone need an attorney for except to satisfy their greed?

Sorry for the rant. I just don't think attorneys are the answer to everything. Yes, I have used them, and yes, they have a useful purpose.

fundy said...

The FLDS basically booted people off property that they had built with there own money and labor. Alot of them are in the Centenial ward. And having attended their meetings having heard them talk about it, surely the the new trust appointees could address and return rightfull property.

Anonymous said...

Nope, not an attorney. But have had some experience trying to straighten out some real estate messes. If you don't understand real estate law, you are barking up the wrong tree. You know that the tree will fall on top of you if you don't watch where you are cutting. Take care to direct the fall. You don't have to hire the first attorney in the phone book. Look in the phone book and find attornies who practice real estate law. Interview them. Ask them for references. Don't commit to anything until you have the time to check those references. Hire a private decective, if you don't think you have the experience to check all the possibilities. Find where the State Bar Association headquarters for your state is located. (Bar Association has nothing to do with sales of alcohol, in this instance Bar refers to barrister, an old English name for Lawyer) (The Bar Association of a State is generally an oversight organization that has the power to withdraw the license to practice law from an un-ethical attorney. They are your friend against bad lawyers. Former President of the United States Bill Clinton was dis-barred in Arkansas for having lied to a Grand Jury) Call and ask them to provide you with a list of ten reputable, qualified real estate attornies, then do a background check, find the best of the best. Your best bet is to find one who will work for all of you who have similar claims. He will earn a bigger paycheck if you all pay a part of his fee and therefore will be more inclined to spend more time looking into the details and in covering all the possibilities.

You can never hope to get yourselves in a position where you can live normal lives until you learn to trust. Don't trust everybody. Make them earn your trust. If you are suspicious of everyone outside of your circle of accquaintences you are greatly limited because those outside know the law, they use the law to their advantage. If you learn enough about the law then you can protect yourself and your family and isn't that part of what security is about?

Not all attorneys are honest but then, not all prophets are true prophets. The Centenial Park People may have learned some of what I have been attempting to teach to you. Ask them about what they know about laws of propriety and ownership. You have to understand some new language, and some of is purely the language of attorneys and courts, if you hope to have a chance to re-gain what was mis-managed by the former managers of the fund. You are whee you are because you trusted them to take care of you instead of you taking care of yourself. You are not the first to have this sort of thing happen nor will you be the last. Please take the time to learn to protect yourself and family.

fttc said...

Ask Centennial Park? They were fleeced by the lawyers just as much as we were. Maybe more.

I understand and totally agree with you about educating yourself to protect your family and home. In today's world I don't think there are many who you can put your trust in. I am ultimately responsible for myself. Isn't this the lesson you would have me learn from the false prophet. If I depend on an attorney to be responsible for me I am just as bad off as your description of the origination of our troubles. As I said, attorneys have their place in society, but it is not for society to put their trust in them explicitly. There is a lot of money involved in the UEP fiasco and from what I have seen of attorneys there will be those lurking about trying to get their hands on that money. An attorney SHOULD be knowledgeable of the laws and what should be done to comply with them. Further than this I have no use for them. There are too many ready to stir up trouble and play on the greed inherent in man, using the law to take advantage of others.

It would only be just, as the UEP is dissolved, which it appears is surely to be the outcome, for those who have put effort and money into it to get something for their efforts. I know there are those in CC/Hildale who will see their chance, hire a lawyer and get far more than their input ever justified. This is the kind of behavior that turns me off. These people are greedy and it is not hard to find a lawyer who will perform the service for their cut of the spoil.

I believe you had the best interest of the people at heart in your post. I only replied to clarify where I am coming from. Yes, we are at this juncture because too many of us put explicit trust in a "prophet" (a mere man). People, take responsibility for yourselves! Get educated in the law that you live under and abide by it. Find out what is happening around you and protect your family and home.

Anonymous said...

fttc:

I agree that the responsability for your own self and family is yours. My question is this. Can and do you have amoung those whom you trust any who are knowledgable concerning real estate law or even how to break out of the UEP fiasco? If so why are the citizens in the Twin Cities in such a quandry?

You are going to need some help. A fly by night expert is more likely to get you in more trouble than an attorney from another state who has graduated with honors from a reputable law school. He/she may not even be licensed to practice in your state. That in and of itself might help to develop a mutual trust. Contracts and deeds are filled with legalese that literaly can "blow the mind" of an individual not familiar with the terminology. A good 'paralegal' in many instances can write a contract or deed, but can't give a legal opinion. If you are not familiar with the term paralegal, these folks attend a community or junior college for two years and specialize in verbalizing contracts, writs, deeds and other legal documentation. Be aware that they are not qualified to act as an authority regarding the legality of an issue or how to defend a position should a need to do so arise. A paralegal can not represent you before a court. To quote an oft repeated saying, "only a fool represents himself before a court" so don't try to represent yourself.

There are attorneys who are good men and women. Not all attorneys are in business to get rich at the uneducated's expense. There are good attorneys, graduates of Christian Law Schools whose interest is justice being served. They may not be of your faith or persuasion, but if you don't make your faith or persuasion the issue, but instead stick to the points of law they will work for you with honor and give you fair representation. You need not be defensive nor be offended just give and act upon those issues that require an expert's touch to resolve. Please consider this as coming from someone with nothing to gain or lose, but who likes to see the underdog get a fair shake.

fttc said...

I beleive you are giving some good advice and hope it will be heeded. I do not know of anyone in the FLDS that is an expert in this field. A good attorney who is familiar with the laws would be essential in any effort to sort out the mess.

Thank you for your input and for sticking with me through my ranting and opinion expressing!

Anonymous said...

Inmate Name : BARLOW, KENNETH MITCHEL Birth Date: 08/13/86
Address : PO BOX 2884, Colorado City, AZ
Arrest Time/Date: 16:00:00 01/07/06
Arrest Type : TAKE Arrested By : Johnson, Allen Agency : SGPD
Loc of Arrest: 660 s 400 e #13

Offense Date Statute, Disposition, Court,
Sentence Date Offense Description Class
----------------- --------------------- ------
16:00:00 01/07/06 76-6-408(1) PP 5DIS
**:**:** **/**/** Poss Stolen Property 2F

Bond information for above offense
Required Amount : 10000.00 Percent : 100.00 Required clearance :
Optional Amount : 0.00 Percent : 100.00 Optional clearance :
Payments:
[No Payments Made]

Anonymous said...

nmate Name : BARLOW, KIPTON LEE Birth Date: 06/30/86
Address : 660 S. 440 E. #13, st. George, UT
Arrest Time/Date: 20:48:53 01/07/06
Arrest Type : TAKE Arrested By : Johnson, Allen Agency : SGPD
Loc of Arrest: 660 S 400 E #13
Offense Date Statute, Disposition, Court,
Sentence Date Offense Description Class
----------------- --------------------- ------
20:48:53 01/07/06 58-37A-5 PP 5DIS
**:**:** **/**/** Poss Drug Paraphernal BM
Bond information for above offense
Required Amount : 1850.00 Percent : 100.00 Required clearance : EXCP
Optional Amount : 0.00 Percent : 100.00 Optional clearance :
Payments:
[No Payments Made]
20:48:53 01/07/06 58-37-8-CM PP 5DIS
**:**:** **/**/** Cultivation Marijuana 3F
Bond information for above offense
Required Amount : 5000.00 Percent : 100.00 Required clearance : EXCP
Optional Amount : 0.00 Percent : 100.00 Optional clearance :
Payments:
[No Payments Made]
[No Payments Made]
20:48:53 01/07/06 76-6-408(1) PP 5DIS
**:**:** **/**/** Poss Stolen Property 2F
Bond information for above offense
Required Amount : 10000.00 Percent : 100.00 Required clearance : EXCP
Optional Amount : 0.00 Percent : 100.00 Optional clearance :
Payments:
[No Payments Made]
Bond information for above offense
Required Amount : 21850.00 Percent : 100.00 Required clearance :
Optional Amount : 0.00 Percent : 100.00 Optional clearance :
Payments:
[No Payments Made]

Anonymous said...

Inmate Name : BARLOW, MOSIAH NEWEL Birth Date: 05/25/86
Address : 628 S. 300 E., St George, UT
Arrest Time/Date: 16:45:00 01/07/06
Arrest Type : FEL Arrested By : Jared Redfearn Agency : WDTF
Loc of Arrest: 628 S. 300 E.
Offense Date Statute, Disposition, Court,
Sentence Date Offense Description Class
----------------- --------------------- ------
16:45:00 01/07/06 58-37-8-DM PP 5DIS
**:**:** **/**/** Distribute Marijuana 2F
Bond information for above offense
Required Amount : 10000.00 Percent : 100.00 Required clearance :
Optional Amount : 0.00 Percent : 100.00 Optional clearance :
Payments:
[No Payments Made]
16:45:00 01/07/06 58-37-8-PC PP 5DIS
**:**:** **/**/** Poss Cocaine 2F
Bond information for above offense
Required Amount : 10000.00 Percent : 100.00 Required clearance :
Optional Amount : 0.00 Percent : 100.00 Optional clearance :
Payments:
[No Payments Made]
16:45:00 01/07/06 58-37A-5 PP 5DIS
**:**:** **/**/** Poss Drug Paraphernal AM
Bond information for above offense
Required Amount : 1850.00 Percent : 100.00 Required clearance :
Optional Amount : 0.00 Percent : 100.00 Optional clearance :
Payments:
[No Payments Made]

Anonymous said...

Inmate Name : TIMPSON, DEXTER FRANK Birth Date: 10/08/86
Address : PO BOX 1832, Colorado City, AZ
Arrest Time/Date: 16:00:00 01/07/06
Arrest Type : TAKE Arrested By : Johnson, Allen Agency : SGPD
Loc of Arrest: 660 S 400 E 13
Offense Date Statute, Disposition, Court,
Sentence Date Offense Description Class
----------------- --------------------- ------
16:00:00 01/07/06 58-37A-5 5DIS
**:**:** **/**/** Poss Drug Paraphernal AM
Bond information for above offense
Required Amount : 1850.00 Percent : 100.00 Required clearance : CASU
Optional Amount : 0.00 Percent : 100.00 Optional clearance :
Payments:
Date : 01/08/06
Amount : 1850.00
16:00:00 01/07/06 58-37-8-DC 5DIS
**:**:** **/**/** Distribute Cocaine 2F
Bond information for above offense
Required Amount : 10000.00 Percent : 100.00 Required clearance : CASU
Optional Amount : 0.00 Percent : 100.00 Optional clearance :
Payments:
Date : 01/08/06
Amount : 10000.00
16:00:00 01/07/06 58-37-8-DM 5DIS
**:**:** **/**/** Distribute Marijuana 3F
Bond information for above offense
Required Amount : 5000.00 Percent : 100.00 Required clearance : CASU
Optional Amount : 0.00 Percent : 100.00 Optional clearance :
Payments:
Date : 01/08/06
Amount : 5000.00
Arrest Time/Date: 12:00:00 01/11/06
Arrest Type : TAKE Arrested By : Todd Pitcher Agency : SGPD
Loc of Arrest: 660 S 400 E #13
Offense Date Statute, Disposition, Court,
Sentence Date Offense Description Class
----------------- --------------------- ------
12:00:00 01/11/06 76-6-408(1) 5DIS
**:**:** **/**/** Poss Stolen Property 3F
Bond information for above offense
Required Amount : 5000.00 Percent : 100.00 Required clearance : CASU
Optional Amount : 0.00 Percent : 100.00 Optional clearance :
Payments:
Date : 01/11/06
Amount : 5000.00
12:00:00 01/11/06 76-8-306 5DIS
**:**:** **/**/** Obstructing Justice BM
Bond information for above offense
Required Amount : 587.00 Percent : 100.00 Required clearance : CASU
Optional Amount : 0.00 Percent : 100.00 Optional clearance :
Payments:
Date : 01/11/06
Amount : 587.00
12:00:00 01/11/06 76-10-504 5DIS
**:**:** **/**/** Concealed Weapon BM
Bond information for above offense
Required Amount : 587.00 Percent : 100.00 Required clearance : CASU
Optional Amount : 0.00 Percent : 100.00 Optional clearance :
Payments:
Date : 01/11/06
Amount : 587.00
12:00:00 01/11/06 76-10-503 5DIS
**:**:** **/**/** Poss Weapon By Restri 3F
Bond information for above offense
Required Amount : 5000.00 Percent : 100.00 Required clearance : CASU
Optional Amount : 0.00 Percent : 100.00 Optional clearance :
Payments:
Date : 01/11/06
Amount : 5000.00

Anonymous said...

I have given this some more thought. Everyone who owns property or who has owned property will need to have documents describing the location of that property (in a legal sense). If they have old deeds stuck away somewhere, documents of transfer, where they granted title of the property to UEP etc. these might be critical in establishing that they indeed have a legal 'right' to redeem the property. If they are not proficient in searching legal records they could possibly go to a 'Title Company' who does Title searches for clients and for attorneys. A Title Company can search the history of a piece of property back as far as records have been maintained. Title companys, sometimes refered to as Abstract companies will most often be located in county seats in close proximity to court houses. In any case, a legal description of the property is going to have to be obtained in one manner or another. Title Companies are privately owned and charge a fee for their services but since they know what they are looking for and usually have an idea of where to look if they come upon an irregularity they, most of the time not only find errors, but find whee the errors were corrected.

Property description may be described on tax notices. If so, you are that far ahead. However even these may be in error sometime so I think it would be a pretty good idea to check to see if the described property as listed on the tax notice is the same on the deed record located in the county clerk or county recorder's office and all are in relation to the property you are attempting to claim as your own.

The tricky question of other heirs to the property, in the event that the property was inherited at sometime in the past must be resolved.

In some ways, purchase of the various properties at tax auction, if funds are immediately available and or a letter of credit enables the purchaser to guarantee the tax collector the immediate availability of said funds might be preferable to trying to establish previous ownership.

Here's why. If legal ownership was passed to UEP and in fact eventually WJ became the sole voice of UEP he may have used the various title(s) to secure loans and or as collateral that as yet have not been discovered. If that is the case the probability of purchase at a tax sale would ursurp all other liens and give free title to the property. I believe I'm right but an attorneys advice would be most helpful here.

I wish you well and hope that this information is helpful to you.

Anonymous said...

Inmate Name : JOHNSON, FRANKLIN L. Birth Date: 11/15/85
Address : 445 W. UTAH AVE, Hildale, UT
Arrest Time/Date: 16:00:00 01/07/06
Arrest Type : TAKE Arrested By : Johnson, Allen Agency : SGPD
Loc of Arrest: 660 S 400 E 13
Offense Date Statute, Disposition, Court,
Sentence Date Offense Description Class
----------------- --------------------- ------
16:00:00 01/07/06 58-37-8-DC 5DIS
**:**:** **/**/** Distribute Cocaine 3F
Bond information for above offense
Required Amount : 5000.00 Percent : 100.00 Required clearance : CASU
Optional Amount : 0.00 Percent : 100.00 Optional clearance :
Payments:
Date : 01/08/06
Amount : 5000.00
16:00:00 01/07/06 58-37-8-DM 5DIS
**:**:** **/**/** Distribute Marijuana 3F
Bond information for above offense
Required Amount : 5000.00 Percent : 100.00 Required clearance : CASU
Optional Amount : 0.00 Percent : 100.00 Optional clearance :
Payments:
Date : 01/08/06
Amount : 5000.00
Arrest Time/Date: 12:00:00 01/11/06
Arrest Type : TAKE Arrested By : Todd Pitcher Agency : SGPD
Loc of Arrest: 660 S 400 E #13
Offense Date Statute, Disposition, Court,
Sentence Date Offense Description Class
----------------- --------------------- ------
12:00:00 01/11/06 76-6-408(1) 5DIS
**:**:** **/**/** Poss Stolen Property 3F
Bond information for above offense
Required Amount : 5000.00 Percent : 100.00 Required clearance : CASU
Optional Amount : 0.00 Percent : 100.00 Optional clearance :
Payments:
Date : 01/11/06
Amount : 5000.00
12:00:00 01/11/06 76-8-306 5DIS
**:**:** **/**/** Obstructing Justice BM
Bond information for above offense
Required Amount : 587.00 Percent : 100.00 Required clearance : CASU
Optional Amount : 0.00 Percent : 100.00 Optional clearance :
Payments:
Date : 01/11/06
Amount : 587.00

fundy said...

That's very interesting but does'nt waiting until the tax auction give other people the right to bid on said property and possibly loose it to them?

Anonymous said...

Who else is going to want a 30,000 square foot house with no siding and no windows?

Anonymous said...

"Lifestyles of the Rich and Infamous"

Anonymous said...

To continue the post of 10:10

Fundy:

You have made a good observation. Since title of the properties in question were handed over to the UEP and the UEP is the party of record holding title to the property I doubt that any option except a tax sale will be available for solution of your problem. Please be aware that the money spent out of UEP to pay attorney fees to this point has been spent in behalf of securing Warren Jeffs access to the UEP accounts. Jeffs spent the money in his own behalf, not in behalf of those of you who are stranded in Short Creek with a tax lein on your home. Yes, when the property comes up for bid, you stand a chance of losing your home.

If, as this thread suggests, all property for which taxes are due will be sold at auction during 2007, this fact makes it imperative that those of you who desire to claim the property you have called your own to make preparation to do the following.

You must obtain a legal description of the property you desire to claim. A legal description can be obtained at the courthouse in the county where the property is located. As I suggested earlier, a Title or Abstract office, who does this type of thing all the time is able to do a better job than you can do, faster and with less personal cost to you and much less personal stress. Why? Because they know what to look for and how to organize it into a package that will be acceptable to the tax people when the time comes.

Reason: How can you bid and know that the property that you are attempting to purchase by bid is the property you want to purchase? A legal description of the property is mandatory (that means you must have one. A legal description is a sworn statement made by a title searcher or abstractor, in written form, with the Seal of the State witnessed by a Notary Public afixed and witnessed.) The statement testifies that as far as can be determined the description of the property is accurate and true. No word of mouth testemony is acceptable. The purpose of this document is to identify the property to both you and the tax collector so that both parties, you and the tax collector can be in complete agreement as to what property is represented by both the sworn description and his receipt to you for payment of taxes following your having been the successful bidder. This is the only way that you can gain clear title to the property.

Next: It is important to have a certified survey made of the property to establish the meads and boundries. (This means to determine the exact location of all corners and location of all property lines.) A written copy of the survey should be placed in the records at the courthouse and included as a part of the title search.

Do not be surprised if someone is present to bid against you at the auction. If the property tax owed is less than the true value of the property in all probability there will be multiple individuals or corporations attempting to buy the property. These individuals may attempt to buy the whole town by bidding, a lump sum to settle the claim quickly. To protect yourself, seek an attorneys advise.

Know exactly the amount of tax and penalties due on the property. If you are the first to be able to hand the tax collector a certified check for the total taxes due you will in all probability be able to claim the property.

A possible option: An attorney may be able to advise you as to whether you can place the money in an escrow account, payable at the stroke of midnight on the morning of the tax sale to the State, county, School District, Federal Government and or any other tax collector in payment for all taxes due and penalties. If such an arrangement can be made there is a distinct possibility for you to assure that the property is yours without exception. The payment is handled by a bonded agent, (A bonded agent is insured that the money will be paid only upon the completion of the agreement or the full amount will be returned to you), and only upon the exchange of a clear title to the property in your name.

fundy said...

The word on the property that was going around , was that Warren had taken out a loan for as much as he could for property in the UEP.
IF that is the case, cannot the loan holder, bank, forclose on the loan pay the property taxes and take the property? Are there payments to a loan for the property that are in default???

Anonymous said...

TO ALL UEP RESIDENTS:

PLEASE NOTE:

I have posted as Anonymous several long articles sugesting how you might prepare for the eventual redemption of your homes from the eventual tax sales.

READ THE POST ON THIS THREAD:

I don't know the man. I do know that the man holds the future of your city in his hands. He is acting by court order. You may not like what he is saying, but he is telling you what you must do to redeem your homes.

He asks that if you have questions he is available on the internet at bwisan@wsrp.com

The post was made by brw and was posted 1/11/2005.

For goodness sakes folks. Please go on line and ask this man exactly how and what you must do to reclaim your property before it goes to tax sale. It may mean that you have to get together with all your neighbors and come to an agreement to all pay the taxes on all the property in your "block" as described, but at least you can get out from under the UEP's tax lein and own the property yourself once again.

THAT IDEA MAKES A LOT OF SENSE TO ME.

Anonymous said...

Good Grief Fundy.
Get in your car or hitchhike to the county courthouse and asked the clerk how to search for liens and morgages on property.

If Warren has morgaged the farm so to speak the great Desert News or Spectrum would of reported it by now.

No legal lendor in their right mind would loan big bucks to the UEP without clear title to the property.

Warren knows exactly what he is doing. How many accountants are in Warren's employ?

As long as the tithe comes in Warren is not to concern about Shortcreek. If the people are willing to sacrifice everything, Warren has no money problems. The problems start when the people figure out they are being duped and the cash flow stops.

Have you tried to buy property lately? Give it a try? It's educational.

fundy said...

I am not sure that banks would'nt lend on title problems as much as having to pay off people for improvements to said property over the years.
I just know some people who have homes in the creek and the word was that loans were taken out on UEP property. Just trying to ferify what I have heard. I do not live in the creek.

Anonymous said...

fundy:

I think you're absolutely right. No reputable lending institution will lend money unless they have a preferable attachment to the title, i.e. first lien. Now some 'good 'ole boy' lenders might, but you can bet the interest will be sky high and there will be absoluely no tolerance for late payment.

Anonymous said...

Well, folks lets focus.

Warren is playing the shell game.
While he is moving the Pea, your eyes are focus in its direction.
Start watching the hands.

He is preparing the lemings to jump over the cliff.

fundy said...

The Salt Lake Tribune reports that Utah Judge Denise Lindberg announced that the trust that holds the property of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints will be administered by a neutral board of trustees, removing any control from the church priesthood. The priesthood will continue to control the religious side of the church. Also witnesses testified that most of this year's FLDS property tax bill of $1.2 million has not been paid, even though the church is apparently receiving "great sums of money." as donations. The money is allegedly is being used to build a new FLDS community in Texas.

Bruce Wisan, a special fiduciary appointed in May to protect UEP assets, said the church in the past has collected money from its members to pay taxes. This year, the faithful have been told "to do nothing" to help cover the bill, he said. FLDS, a sect that encourages polygamous marriage, has been the subject of numerous enforcement initiatives recently

fundy said...

Another Move Against FLDS Control Of Arizona City
In another step against the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a breakaway polygamist Mormon sect, Arizona's attorney general is seeking a federal civil rights review of the entire police force of Colorado City. The development is reported in an AP story from Friday carried by Officer.com. It is claimed that the FLDS dominates Colorado City and adjacent Hildale, Utah. (See prior posting.) Other law enforcement officials and citizens claim that the Colorado City police force operates under direction of FLDS. Young men who had clashed with leaders of FLDS have complained of being threatened with arrest and forced to leave the city. There are also claims that the police have ignored complaints from women who were forced into marriage or subjected to violence.

Anonymous said...

It’s good to see Mr. Wisan giving us accurate information on this tax issue.

The special fiduciary sent by mail, a letter to all of us showing us how we can stay in our homes. A payment, or even a partial payment, of the estimated taxes due on your home for 2005 will be accepted at the new UEP Tax Account set up by Mr. Wisan. By doing this you will indicate your willingness to cooperate with him in doing the job that he has been given by the court to do. By not making a payment or partial payment, on the taxes due on your home, you are sending the message that you are not willing to cooperate with the court. This choice is yours to make and Mr. Wisan will keep your payment confidential and will send you a receipt at the mailing address that you give him.

C.C.I.C.

Anonymous said...

i have to respect the fact that the people in the flds are doing what they say and believe in!to hell with the rest.thats more than i can say for most of us!