Friday, December 30, 2005

Inbreeding

Forbidden Fruit Dec 29, 2005

Inbreeding among polygamists along the Arizona-Utah border is producing a caste of severely retarded and deformed children By John Dougherty

http://phoenixnewtimes.com/Issues/current/polygamy/index.html

rare disease called fumarase deficiency.

By the late 1990s, Tarby and his team had discovered fumarase deficiency was occurring in the greatest concentration in the world among the fundamentalist Mormon polygamists of northern Arizona and southern Utah.

as a result of decades of inbreeding between two of the polygamous sect's founding families -- the Barlows and the Jessops.

40 comments:

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

so way did you not put my three children all so and then tell every body that my wife and i were kin. my name is ALBERT COUNSIL AND MY WIFE NAME IS CHEMENE COOK not fischer

Anonymous said...

So are you related? Double dose of Jessop?

Albert Counsil said...

you know i got to know some of the people in the Adl and other groups. And you know who the biggest hate person is? that is JOHN DOUGHERTY IS. He would not know the truth if it looked him in the face. if he is so good why does he work for a smut paper and not one like the az. review? if he is so right then why dont the state arrest my dear friend Alvin Barlow, or Jeffrey Jessop. It seams that John has more hate than all the Nazis in the world.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

You can say the same thing the guys in the creek say or you can face the facts.

Anonymous said...

This is not right.

Even John Daughtery and the Pheonix New Times, cruel, hateful, and without ethics as they are, are not publishing an exhaustive list, with names, of the victims of birth defects.

Out of respect for the families involved, please stop.

Anonymous said...

I apologize for hurting your feelings. Although I think the list should remain. Facts are facts. And the Truth is a stubborn thing.

Anonymous said...

Warren Jeffs is half Steed, and he has married five ladies I know of that are half Steed. Although this has nothing to do with Barlow's and Jessops. I would like to bet that the little girl that he had that was deformed was because her mother was half Steed.

Anonymous said...

One has to wonder if this is the reason for "onthestreet's" strange manner of behavior on this message board?

Anonymous said...

Truth is hard sometimes, but there are times when restraint needs to be used to proctect the innocent.
One can not help but think here that none of us can control the circumstances of our birth nor the decisions that our parents make. To publish a list of names is obsence to some and extremely hurtful to many as well

Anonymous said...

Thursday, June 27, 1844
Joseph Smith said:
"Our lives have already become jeopardized by revealing the wicked and bloodthirsty purposes of our enemies; and for the future we must cease to do so. All we have said about them is truth, but it is not always wise to relate all the truth."TPJS--P-392

The Savior said:
Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

If I were among that number it would be nice to know that there was somewhere to go to for help and someone to care.

If the problem needs to be discussed. Can it not be done without airing names?

Anonymous said...

I agree, it is hurtful to air names. You know not the truth. I say get a list of all the disabled outside of our church and start blaming them. I think you would hear a lot more about it. I agree with the poster that says to not speak of others evil is better. God has a place prepared for the wicked. It is not our place to name there evil. He has it all recorded. There is enough pain in the world with out stiring the pot. I think that John daughtery would not know the truth if it looked him in the face. He is a sensationalist. I do not say this in critazism. I say it because it is the truth. I think the person who listed names is not aquainted with disabled people. I think if God would send you a disabled person to take care of; you would find out the real worth of life. I think you would find out what love is. Unless you cared not, one whit.

Anonymous said...

I agree about not naming all the truth. IT causes people to raise up against the person that tells what happened, more than what would have happened, if the person would have shut their mouth. I like what Joseph taught. God will take care of all. And he knows all truth. He has a place prepared for all people And the disabled go home as pure as the day they were born. It is the greatest privledge to have one of these disabled children. They are only sent to special people.

Anonymous said...

Thanks administrator, for taking the list of names away.

fttc said...

The list of names was insensitive at the least. Thank you Administrator for deleting it. I think it is wrong to put names of private people (with out their permission) in the public eye unless they have committed crimes against the public. One could argue that the parents have committed a "crime" by using public moneys for the care of these disabled persons. If such is the case it is the parents who are at fault and the children should be left out of it.

It is this that I think is the real issue here. All this talk about the list is just a distraction. The concern here is personal responsibility. If a couple are married and, unaware of the possibility due to genetics or otherwise, give birth to a disabled child, that is one thing. For a couple who knows the chances and goes ahead anyway is another.

Some of these couples have several children with the same defects. They knew the risk after the first child and they took it anyway. These should have no claim on public support. If they were willing to take the chance they should be willing to pay for the care.

I do not know the circumstances of all these births. I do know of one situation where a man found out after he was married that his wife had a disease that was genetic. They had several children before the disease was confirmed. He told me that he was counseled by the Preisthood leader at the time that they should not have any more children. I have not seen any defects in their children but they have kept the counsel given them. This is taking responsibility.

There have been some adopted children come into what is now termed the FLDS. Why not bring more in? It is not like these couples could not have children to raise. There are thousands of children needing parents. This would also alleviate the intermarriage problems. I realize that this is not possible today. warren would not allow it and probably the state would not allow it given the conditions of so many dilinquents coming from the FLDS today. We are looking at several generations of the intermarriages that were long before warren's time.

Anonymous said...

If your best reason to adopt children is for their chromosomes, please don't.

Anonymous said...

A few questions from an outsider:

Is this furmase deficiency a new thing in Colorado City? I had never heard of it.

What is the long-term prognosis and life expectancy for the victims?

Are there now victims who have reached adulthood, and how does the family and community deal with it, both socially and financially?

Is the cost of long-term care being borne by the government?

An editorial note: It appears that a family with multiple mothers and many children may be the very best way for children with this type of condition to be cared for. I offer my condolences, by best wishes, and my gratitude and respect to the families affected.

fttc said...

Not exactly what I said, but you make a good point.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps the above refered to familial structure is the prefered for humane care for those who suffer this genetic malady but do you not think that the family would be better served by introduction of some new genetic pool without any Jessop or Barlow kin? OR Prohibit OR NEUTER males from those particular lineages where the defect is demonstrated from marrying anyone.

I know, I KNOW I just threw up a gigantic RED-YELLOW - DO NOT TOUCH-NONE-OF-YOUR-CONCERN FLAG as far as Mormanism is concerned. BE WARNED if inbreeding is continued another couple of generations NONE, I repeat, NONE of the children will be able to reproduce ANY normal offspring. I'm glad it's on your conscience, not mine. My suggestion only makes genetic, medical or moral sense, but I doubt that makes any difference to you. One non affected bloodline introduced into the gene pool reduces the factor by 1/2 carry to another generation by 3/4 to another generation to 7/8 to another generation to 15/16.

How many OTHER genetic related problems could be addressed at the same time?

Anonymous said...

Since I made the proposal about spreading your bloodline to reduce the possibility of genetic birth disease and birth defects and gave you some mathimatical probabilities for success no one has chosen to take up an argument against my proposal. Why not. Did I offer something doable? Something that actually made sense? Or did it scare your FLDS roots to the marrow of your FLDS bones?

Anonymous said...

Your sagacious wisdom hath befuddled us all.

Anonymous said...

"...Abraham H. Cannon, an apostle recorded in 1886 that he talked with 'Pres. [Lorenzo] Snow about various doctrines. Bro Snow said I would live to see the time when brothers and sisters would marry each other in this church. All our horror at such an union was due entirely to prejudice and the offspring of such union would be healthy and pure as any other. These were the decided views of Pres. Young when alive, for Bro. S. talked to him freely on this matter.’ " (Journal of Mormon History, 1992, page 106)

Anonymous said...

Well, genetic history is proving that Bro. Snow was pulling a "Snow Job" on the congregation, he didn't know beans about genetics.

I'm quite sure that Pres. Young was just as well educated and as "Snowed" as Snow in relation to the science of genetics.

The proof of their ignorance is now being born in the pudding of their foolishness. Present day great-great grandchildren bear the burden of the error of Snow and Young's ignorance.

Anonymous said...

"This is something pertaining to our marriage relation. The whole world will think what an awful thing it is. What an awful thing it would be if the Mormons should just say we believe in marrying brothers and sisters. Well we shall be under the necessity of doing it, because we cannot find anybody else to marry."

From The Teachings of President Brigham Young by Fred C. Collier, Vol. 3, p. 368

Anonymous said...

Former members of the Kingston group claim that they have already done this.

Anonymous said...

Maybe the catholic 'orders' of nuns and priests would serve you well. Oaths of chastity, voluntary sterilization are possible options Maybe you should study the 'Shakers.' That marriage is a fact among close kin is the chief contributing factor to so many of those born within your society being born with birth defects. The problem will only worsen with each succeeding generation.

Has anyone considered charting familial relationships? Reduction of birth defects could possibly be reduced if no marriages were performed between persons who were less than five generations apart.

The fewer the branches on the family tree, the greater the probability of birth defects. The very fact that natural attraction between males and females who are near in age is discouraged contributes to the slim genetic pool. Jealousy among heads of family groups and close control by 'prophets' who claim to have the only true truth also is a giant contributor to the problem. For the sake of future generations why don't you beat your swords into pruning hooks, quit being so exclusive, let your young people seek higher education and find other young people who share many of their values. Let them marry, improve the genetic pool for both groups, end your foolish 'child bride' habit and allow natural events to occur without inteferance from your 'control freak' leadership.

Just give these ideas some thought.

Anonymous said...

I am the anon who posted the two previous quotes. I will clarify that I don't agree with Brigham Young's views at all.

Anonymous said...

Having a genetic defect in the FLDS just could either God favors the parents or the parents have done a great sin.

Depends what your last name is.

Anonymous said...

Yes, if you pray for patience, your will be tried sorely. If you pray for strength, and continue to bear children who are born with birth defects, you not only will have your strength tested, but also the strength of those of your children who will be required to give care of those born to you who are unable to care for themselves. By what right do you so impose your hard heartedness upon your children?

fttc said...

Your reasoning here is too deep for me. Do you mean the hardheartedness is bringing defective children into being or NOT bringing them into being?

Anonymous said...

The insistance of procreating in spite of knowledge of the very real probability of a resulting birth defect is an example of being hard-hearted. If a person knows to do right and fails to do so is that not considered a sin? In actuality the very act of copulation with the knowledge of the probability of birth defect being the end result is the perfect example of sefishness. Example: I want what I want when I want it no mater who is hurt. Observe the use of the personal pronoun.

Anonymous said...

The priesthood makes no mistakes. And priesthood marriage is a blessing from God. So it does not matter what the doctors or newspapers or anyone else says.

And we are sent to earth to bring the most precious and bright spirits and provide them with bodies. That is not a problem if the bodies are not maturing or perfect. As long as the spirits have bodies they can progress. And who knows, maybe they were so faithful in the life before that they must be sent so pure that they can not make a mistake. Because handicapped children have the brightest spirit of all and can make no mistakes.

Anonymous said...

Men are responsible for their own actions regardless of what Warren, Santa Clause, Dear Abby, or any other person tells them to do.

Remember the Tower of Babel thread. Another cause of the language confusion was all the inbreeding going on and the mental illnesses that resulted from it.

Anonymous said...

8:21 actually makes a lot more sense than 11:37. The piety , or 'self-righteousness' of the priesthood is straight out of the bowels of hell. The priesthood has become your golden calf, your baal, your molech, your abomination of desolation, the epitome of everything evil. Everytime there is no logical or reasonable explaination for the actions of the male leadership of your cult, the supposed head of the family, it suddenly is a matter blessed by the priesthood. That simple escape tool makes everything evil sacred in your sight. Is human sacrifice next on your depraved agenda? Are you sure that Anton leVey is not your high priest? Maybe Warren Jeffs is one of LeVey's chief lieutenants, or vice-versa.

Anonymous said...

I want to apologize to any of you who think that the above post was directed to any particular individual. That post was directed to a system that allows and encourages men to act in ways that are ungodly and unbecoming to you as individual gentlemen, husbands and fathers.

I honestly believe that there are men amoung you who personally have high morals and in all probability, under different circumstances, would be ideal fathers. I would expect that you would be loving, kind compassionate, caring, understanding, instructing, correcting, nurturing and kind to those who really, with all things considered, are really your responsability.

If you choose to marry, if you choose to father children, then do you not have a responsability to become the best father to those, your own flesh of your flesh and blood of your blood children that there could possibly be on this planet?

Do you not have an even greater responsability to love and care for that woman whom you claim as your bride? Whom God has joined together let not man put asunder.

My question to you is: How can you possibly be everything to your wife or wives and child or children if every moral and social decision required of you is made at the discression of a group of your peers whose only goal is self promotion within the group?

All I ask of you is to give this question serious thought. The answer does not require council, it requires wisdom.

Anonymous said...

Since 11:37 obviously has never made a decision upon his own volition it is obvious that he has allowed the priesthood to become his excuse for every short-fall in existance. If any action is blessed by the priesthood: murder, mayhem, rape, disembowelment, sodomy, being the cause of pain, discomfort, agony, suffering or any malady therefore is stamped with a seal of approval. Why? Because, to cover their own shame the priesthood has given blanket approval to such behavior to all other members of their foul order.

You are in for a gigantic surprise. When you stand at the judgement seat of Christ, you will stand alone. All the lies you have held to as truth are going to fall apart as if they were straw. All your supposed 'good' works will appear as nought but filthy rags. This is not the pronouncement of a human being sitting in judgement of another human being. This is the judgement of the prefect son of God, the Perfect Sacrifice for that was paid for your sin at which you have thumbed your nose each time you claim that superior knowledge and judgement comes from the brotherhood of the priesthood. You are on a fools journey.

Faithful Woman said...

sorry 8:56

Not all, just the elite are covered with the blanket excues of "priesthood reasons"

Anonymous said...

The gospel according to Anonymous 8:56...

"This is not the pronouncement of a human being sitting in judgement of another human being."

Like HELL it isn't.

"This is the judgement of the prefect son of God"

What kind of arrogant BLASPHEMER would ascribe his own words to the Saviour? Do you have "other scripture"? Do you "add to the Bible"? The words you speak in harsh condemnation of a brother are not the words of the Saviour and are recorded with your deeds. You are NOT as "anonymous" as you think.

Anonymous said...

Just wait and see. You won't take my word. You won't take any living human's word. I am not your judge. No human is. It won't be my word that condems you. My word can't condem anyone.

From the shrill scream of your objection to my revelation in relation to the actions permitted by your priesthood, committed, practiced and justified among the brotherhood in everyday activity, a sore nerve has indeed been revealed.

Can you deny that little boys are being sodomized? Can you truthfully deny that girls younger than the legally authorized age for the rites of matrimony are not being bound over to men by Warren Jeffs? Can you in all truth testify that you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you Warren Jeffs? He is your god is he not? He being your god will surely forgive your lying as long as that lie is to benefit the priesthood and Warren Jeffs, won't he? You will not answer these questions. If you do, you will lie.