Monday, November 28, 2005

Your Retirement Account

The faithful people of Short Creek were promised that if they consecrated their monies, time and effort into supporting the Storehouse, they would be taken care of in their old age. There was no need for a retirement account.

77 comments:

Anonymous said...

Take a look at the old people in the Creek. The store house is not there for them. WJ kicked out most of those that were needing a little money to live off.

Oh Whoops! I guess you do need a retirement account after all.

Anonymous said...

Well, I guess they joined the real world. Retirement happens to every one some time; They all die. Then they do not have to pay the debt of the Government. It is left to the next of kin. And I hope you are all faithful, so you can rest in heaven, cause there is none in the other spectrum.

Ya, Ya, I know the spectrum is full of un-precidented sensationalism, not based on fact; but what-ever. Life goes on. I hope you poor picked on people find a little money in your basket of complaining.

Faithful Woman said...

This "Work" was their retirement plan. They worked their whole lifes toward being with family and friends, in this life and the next.

Now some upstart from Salt Lake has come and stolen both.

Anonymous said...

My father was told he would not live long enough for Social Security benefits, so pull them early.

Anonymous said...

Oops--I didn't mean he wouldn't live, the economy wouldn't live long enough.

Anonymous said...

Well, do not blame your fathers brain cells on others. I was told a lot of things too, but how much did your father promote cheating as the saving of his soul. And is he sure that is what he was told or is it what he wanted to hear, and the government is always worried social security would not last, and to me all government agencys are dishonoset as they take money from people and put very little back into the people. I think people would be better off, to put there own savings for retirement into there own hands and not the government, but hey; as long as they give it they have to live with the decisions of there brain cells. Who you gona blame the weather on? Poor dude.

Anonymous said...

wadda ya mean, worried about retirement? You got how many kids 10,20,50 or more per family? Between them all, they can't take care of Moms and Pop? What about stuff like "strong family ties" and "we take care of our own"? All true except when it comes down to the 'O Mighty Dollar, huh? only goes to show....

It's alright, I'm sure the government will figure away to squeeze a few more bucks out of my paycheck to make sure your old folks won't starve. Don't worry.

keep sweet eldorado
stg

Anonymous said...

10,20 50 kids would be nice, but they are calling someone else dad and watchin mom be an adulterer. This does not give dad very much money, when he has been kicked out and living somewhere else.

Anonymous said...

And when did you ever help any one? It ain't like these old, poor, picked on, brain washed people take hand out's. Get a grip. The government does not give. It takes, and then it puts out its complaints because a person wants to eat. Get a grip on reality. You are dreamers if you think your tax pays for anything in the Creek. Oh, I am sure there is a lot of money spent to destroy people there; And with all the blame----------get a grip on your lip.

Anonymous said...

Stg

You sound as raspy as a dried up popcorn ball...

First of all, don't believe all the shoddy media stories. They have one motive, and that is to sell their magazines and papers. I have have had personal experience in that line of publicity. They don't always tell it like it is!

Second, I'll wager that you are an angry, hateful, pissed off person with life in general. You haven't walked in their shoes. They pay taxes too.

Get off your high horse and be happy for a change!

Anonymous said...

E N T I T L E M E N T S

Everyone in America wants one of some kind. Everyone in America gets one be it use of public roads, postal service, education, defense spending, space programs, building dams for hydroelectric power, flood control or whatever. These and 100,000 other E N T I T L E M E N T S are where your purloined tax dollars go. Everyone thinks he or she is being robbed. Yet they think nothing about driving 200 miles over a paved road that passes over real estate of little or no importance. Who pays for your convenience? Everyone, that's who. So quit your bellyaching.

Anonymous said...

I worked my whole life building up the UEP as did my father before me.I was told that if I turned in material,labor and money while I was young and middle aged, then when I was old and feeble, I and my family would have access to the storehouse to have our needs met.

Warrens "retirement" plan is not what
I had been told about and is certainly not what
I was expecting.

Warren just scams us out of our time and money and continually demands more or we face losing our families.Then kicks us out as an example to others when we can no longer pay the requested donations.

It's up to me now to start secretly diverting some of my money that Warren is expecting in to a real retirement account.Hopefully it's not to late for an old dog to learn knew tricks.

This is a great website and is fast becoming a favorite of mine.

Anonymous said...

The Lord said, if you give something, to some one who needs it, then you, would be blessed beyond your comprehension. To say you have no retirement is to acknowledge You have stopped blessing other's. It is to advertise that you are selfish, like the dead sea, that only takes and never gives. So, get a grip on your lip! Christ gave all, and Men are selfish. He gave Us all the earth and you squabble over a bit of dirt. HE gave you life and you fight over stuff. He gave you life and you hate your neighbor. Get a grip on your lip and your brain cells. Accusing only gives energy to negative things. There are as many good things to talk about. Try that for a change.

Anonymous said...

UEP simply has not had the cash backing, sustained growth, or wise investment required to be an all things to all people program. Utopia was a dream never a possibility. Like an old saying in German Central Texas, "Vy ist it ve git tu zoon oldt unt tu late schmardt?"

Faithful Woman said...

Money is a good thing if used properly and wisely. Job was a very rich and good man and he used his riches to bless other people as well. He created many jobs for many people and took care of weary travelers. His friends tried to tell him that his afflictions came from him having so much money and he told them that he had always used it well.
After he had been tested and restored, he was even more rich and had even more, 10 times more, of the worldly wealth that a certain poster keeps spouting about being so evil.

fttc said...

I thought STG made some very valid points about the "strong family ties" and "we take care of our own". These are two principles that can be found throughout our early leaders' sermons. When did they become invalid?

Had we maintained our status as fundamentalists we would not have the problems we now have. An attempt by anyone to create a blog such as this would not have gone past the first week of posting. The media would still be maxing their imaginations to come up with stories about the "Creekers".

We had been left alone for years. Why? We are now being reported on nationally and even internationally as we were in the '40s and '50s. Why? What has changed? Where are those "strong family ties"? Where have all the young men gone? When will they ever learn?

Anonymous said...

You surrender your leadership to demigods. What else can you expect? This is your greatest weakness and you believe it to be your greatest strength, your belief in your priesthood. Believe and trust instead in GOD not a man who wants to be god.

Anonymous said...

Question from a Shoddy Media Type....What part of this weird story has been told wrong?

Richard said...

The LORD does have prophets, but Warren Jeffs is simply not a true prophet. If the Colorado City bunch would have heeded the following warning given by revelation from the LORD around 1974 to Leroy Johnson, they would not be in the economic mess they are in now.

Revelation received about 1974

Behold I say unto you My servant Leroy, humble thyself before Me, and repent of all thy sins.
2 For I am God, even the God of Israel who speaketh through My Servant whom I have chosen;
and man speaketh not these words.
3 For thou hast sinned greatly in that ye have assumed powers that ye have not, and ye have listened to those who are wicked men.
...
15 Neither do ye have authority to collect tithes, for ye have not been given this commission, for this has been given to the bishops of My church, and all others who collect tithes in My name shall be cursed, saith the LORD.
16 And many have sought to use this power for their own profit; behold, I say unto thee that this is priestcraft, and whoso profiteth from this in this manner shall be damned.
...

Anonymous said...

I hope you realize richard that your stock just went to zero.

onthestreet said...

You're not kidding. You can't assume that because a prophet says something to a group that was faltering in 1974, that the rebuke also applies to those who assume only the powers given them, and even to angels, and to God Himself. Good try, but really it's a bad try. Doesn't work.

By the way, where a man's stock is doesn't make it so because the world says so, either.

onthestreet said...

RUMOR SAYS:
The "FAITHFUL" people of Short Creek were promised that "IF" they consecrated their monies, time and effort into supporting the Storehouse, they would be taken care of in their old age. There was no need for a retirement account.

STREET'S REPLY: First of all, this assumes that they are "FAITHFUL". I will quote God directly: "If ye do not what I say, YE HAVE NO PROMISE". Secondly, this also assumes that you truly consecrated something. "But if you give with a grudge, it shall be as though you gave nothing". That is not an acceptable sacrifice, even though you gave it with the intent that the Lord accepts it. That doesn't mean that the sacrifice somehow reconstitutes into the form it was before it burned on the altar. It simply means that YOU HAVE NO REWARD.

Richard said...

quote: I hope you realize richard that your stock just went to zero.

Wow. my stock used to be less than zero, so I must be coming up in the world!

onthestreet said...

Way to go, Dicky!

Anonymous said...

Keep working at it richard, pretty soon you migt be right up there with Ervil and Mitchel with revelations like that.

Anonymous said...

Most of the younger people that are leaving and have left the creek, didn't know and have no use for Leroy S Johnson. Speaking for myself, I didn't know him and it makes me angry to hear people quote him like they quote Uncle Rulon or Uncle Warren. He is no different than them. He drove people off then and cut people off the church and did marriages that should have never happened. People that hang on to his words are just like the ones that hang on to Warrens words.

fttc said...

If you have no use for him it is because you did not know him. You can't be blamed for that. However, is it a possibility that you have been misinformed about his character? I believe you have. It is one opinion against another here. I am offended that you speak of him in the manner you do. I am tough enough to handle it though.

Anonymous said...

You men & women keep looking for your prophet on earth and you'll keep coming up with zero. Oh no doubt you will continut to be plagued with many who come forward proclaiming to have been set apart, that they only have the word, and you fall for that line again and again.

You want to re-invent the wheel, Gods Word, but it has been around, in one translation or another since the time of Paul and John the Apostles. None since then are true, they are fabrications for purpose of control of the "flock" they are only wanna be gospels.

"And ye shall know the TRUTH, and the TRUTH shall make you free." is a direct quotation from John 8:32 You're not gonna find the TRUTH at priesthood council, that's for sure, because, if you will only admit it, or even have the guts to investigate what those guys put out as truth before you bite, hook-line & sinker, that is where all your troubles have started that that is from whence all your troubles will continue.

Pray unto the Lord your God, Creator of Heaven and Earth, asking in the name of the Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ that His Holy Spirit deliver you from all your sin, turn away from your trust in mankind and his sinful ways and come close, following the drawing of the Holy Spirit, not the voice of man and escape the wrath of the madmen you have been taught to believe and follow.

If you have the freedom to read this blog. Then you in all probability know of a "Help Group" who will assist you in escaping your confinement. Start making plans, now. When you know where to go. Act.

Anonymous said...

Is God running the "Help Goup"? Or is it just some particular men you don't want me to listen to? You deny any modern revelation and tell me not to follow a man's advice, then you tell me to go to a help center run by men; or follow my own interpretation/advice which is that of a man, isn't it?

Anonymous said...

I'm just betting that the leadership you get from your "Priesthood" is not in your best interest. They have an agenda. I don't live in your area but Salvation Army is a good bet and they are interested in helping folks in trouble. Their national commander earns $13,00.00 a year whereas the National Chairman of the American Red Cross draws over $650,000.00, go figure who has an agenda.

fttc said...

It would be easier to figure those who do not have an agenda. Even the Salvation Army has an agenda. There are atheists that are offended by their "christian" oriented efforts. Don't get me wrong. I think the Salvation Army does a good job at what they do. As does the Red Cross and other charitable organizations. I just think all people need to understand that anyone they take advice from has an agenda. It is up to each individual to decide which agenda is for them.

I think poster 10:50 makes a good point. Even Paul and John were men, and I might add, with an agenda. I challenge anyone to show me where Leroy S Johnson taught anything contrary to the teachings of Christ. He was not a perfect man and I never did worship him as a man or a prophet. Anyone who did was severely misguided. I know he never wanted that kind of following. I know that anyone that would follow his advice would find themselves closer to Jesus not farther away.

Because a person goes to their minister to get advice doesn't always mean they worship the minister in place of God. Warren has changed this in the FLDS religion. You cannot even get close to him unless you are willing to worship him. This did not exist in Leroy Johnson's day until he was flat on his back and other men were running the show.

Anonymous said...

Not being FLDS I'll have to take our word regarding Leroy Johnson. I just find it difficult to accept any post Biblical writings as Holy writ or especially as divinly inspired. Quotations of Paul's writings, when compared to most ancient manuscripts of the Law and the Prophets translate exactly the same, without deviation. Beginning in the 9th Chapter of Romans Paul, a Jew by birth, laments the rejection of Messiah, Jesus, and even wishes that he, Paul, could suffer their fate. If that is not love, than I have never seen it exhibited.

fttc said...

Anon 8:43

I consider the New Testament as scripture containing the Gospel of Christ. Paul, John, Peter, the writers of the four Gospels, and others, all were righteous men that knew and understood the Gospel as Jesus taught it. They carried on his work of teaching and blessing the people.

What I don't understand, and this is not meant for you specifically, is why those men could be inspired to teach but no one today can. If a man has an understanding of a subject why is it so wrong to listen to him teach it? I have to qualify this with one condition. Teachings that do not square with what Jesus taught are not to be accepted. This was the reason for my walking away from warren. But if you take the teachings of our "priesthood" as you call it up the 1980's when all hell broke loose, their teachings fit with the teachings of Christ.

I think if the young people from the Creek would go back and look at the roots of where they came from they would find the world makes a whole lot more sense. Their parents have not taught them correctly but have sought after the flesh-pots so to speak, saying one thing and often doing the opposite.

We as a group have undone ourselves in more effective ways that any adversary of ours could have dreamed of. If those following warren had any honor they would drop the F from their title and not even dare to compare themselves to the Mormon Church. There is very little of Mormonism left there and hardly a particle of Fundamentalism.

I realize you are not Mormon and perhaps do not understand some of what I say. I believe we are both Christians though and can from that have charity for one another. I appreciate your point of view as it broadens mine if I listen. Truth is Truth and I try to gather from where I can.

ogre said...

I did know Roy Johnson, though only a little bit. I think he did the best he could given the circumstances.I know that he helped all the people return to their homes in short creek after the 53 raid. He became a hero to the navajo people by his actions, and he always preached for families. I don't know that he was a prophet, but he was a very good man, doing the best he could. After falling ill, the Barlow boys manipulated him to kick out their rivals, Now the evil Warren has done in the Barlows and destroyed all the good that existed in the community after destroying the Barlows. Warren will get his dues, they always do. It's sad that innocent people have to go down with him.

Anonymous said...

STREET'S REPLY: First of all, this assumes that they are "FAITHFUL". I will quote God directly: "If ye do not what I say, YE HAVE NO PROMISE".

Street you quoted God directly? Just where is this wonderful scripture or revelation found.

Anonymous said...

fttc

Question. Did John Y Barlow, Leroy Johnson or even Rulon Jeffs call themselves a prophet?


When was Warren designated as one, and by whom?

Richard said...

quote: Keep working at it richard, pretty soon you migt be right up there with Ervil and Mitchel with revelations like that.

I did not write that revelation. I know the prophet who did write it, and I believe he is a true prophet.

That revelation in its entirely actually speaks fairly well of LeRoy Johnson.

Anonymous said...

fttc

As a child I used to listen to broadcasts from LDS, SLC via radio, then attend my own church. to tell you the truth I never felt the inspiration or love demonstrated from LDS teaching as I did from my own church, its teachers and leaders. Oh the Tabernaccle Choir was marvelous, but the teaching from the pulpit was straight from a box, without inspiration. I, after over fifty years still hold the same opinion.

I have traveled far and wide and heard preaching and teaching from those I thought to be inspired of self and to those inspired of God. I have tuned to BYU and listened to some of their progams and still get the impression that there is no deviation, no personal opinion, no revelation, just dogma straight out of a box. I have listed to tapes of Warren Jeffs and was disgusted with his sanctimonious and absurd racist remarks. If this is typical of FLDS teaching then I say again, canned religion.

During these years I have studied, been taught and studied in order to teach and have then taught the truths from the Bible.

I feel that I have gained wisdom and insight from these many experiences thus enabling me to be able to know, for the most part, truth from error and liars from those who tell the truth. That is all I can base my testimony upon. My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness.

fttc said...

Anon 12:30

You make a good point. I do not know offhand where any of these men put this title upon themselves. Men that have had an agenda of personal agrandizement have foisted it on them. I left before Rulon Jeffs died (but after he had his last stroke), so I can't be certain about his last public talks. From those present I have only been able to trace all claims to several women who have proclaimed him the 'prophet' after U. Rulon's death. Both of them had been married to U. Rulon.

fttc said...

Anon 1:19

I agree with your opinion of the LDS teachings of the past 50-100 years. That is why I consider myself a Mormon Fundamentalist. The LDS church as a whole departed from the principles that JS taught. His teachings exemplified and supported the Holy Scriptures. Until the late '70s our group held to his teachings.

Leroy Johnson was the last of our leaders that really stood up to the men around him and held to the Fundamentals. Then in the last 5-6 years of his life he was very ill and men took advantage of his weakened condition. Much like warren did with his father. Aspiring men began to teach this man-worship and then they would give him (Johnson) credit for saying things he never said. This planted the seed for which warren is harvesting now.

I appreciate your testimony and explanation of your position. I say may God bless you in your efforts to understand and teach. I truly believe that if each of us does the best we can with the knowlege and experiences we are blessed with we will meet with the smiles of our Saviour one day.

fttc said...

Richard

Could you share the source of your revelation with me? I am not familiar with it nor can I find others who are. If you don't want to post it publicly email me at fttcrack@hotmail.com. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

12/1 11:05
I know who Ervil is...but who is the "Mitchel" you are referring to?

It can't be me because I haven't had a revelation in 2 or 3 hours...I mean days...maybe years...or maybe....hang on ...I'm getting one now!

It was just revealed to me that its very late on a Saturday night and I better shut down my computer and get to bed or I won't reap my just reward.

I hope this revvy doesn't put me in the same category as Ervil; killing people gets too messy.
M

Richard said...

quote: Could you share the source of your revelation with me?

If you press my name it will go to a site that talks about these revelations. www.2bc.info.

The book is called the Second Book of Commandments. The first revelation in it was in 1961. It continues today. It authorizes a work similar to the work of the prophet John the Baptist.

fttc said...

I couldn't find a name to any of the revelations listed on this site. Who is responsible for them? JS, BY, JT, WW all put their name to those they received. What about it?

I know I am way off topic here. My apologies to all those wishing we would take this somewhere else. This is the last question.

Anonymous said...

Uncle Alvin just got "retired".

Is his retirement at risk?

fttc said...

Was it the state or warren that retired him?

Anonymous said...

Something about an agreement for a State takeover of the school district. The Superintendent and the Business Manager agreed to retire and resign, and the State will move in and "fix" things.

When the State is done "fixing" things, I assume the school district will have to wear one of those white vunnel things around its neck for a while.

"We're from the Government. We're here to help".

Anonymous said...

'course I meand "funnel", not "vunnel".

Where's Dan Quayle when you need him?

Anonymous said...

If your bus drivers, maintenance people, janitors etc. hadn't been making salaries far above the national average and of which all were members of the local FLDS. While in the meantime teachers and others who held skilled positions, those requiring special education and education to be qualified for the position were not receiving salaries equil to those received by their peers within the state, in all probability your "cash cow" would have remained within your control. The audit indicated so many instances where monies were skimmed from the school to be used by FLSD for airplanes, expense accounts, salaries to people who did nothing etc. Comparison of the cost per student in the CCSD against those surrounding it were astronomical yet the ability of those graduating was inferior.

Now, go figure out why you no longer have control of the school.

Once again, your Priesthood not only steals from you directly, it also has proven to be a thief of funds provided by the state, as matching funds, to assist in educating your children.

No doubt this too will be explained away as the fault of the State and Federal Government by the very ones who took the money.

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous 12/03/2005 12:30 PM: John Y Barlow, Leroy Johnson and Rulon Jeffs believed and taught that they were prophets. As to the question, “when was Warren designated as one, and by whom:”

Warren Jeffs wasn’t publicly ordained by Uncle Rulon nor was he ordained privately with this knowledge being taught to the FLDS people at a later time in Uncle Rulon’s days of being a prophet. (Later, Warren claims, “Father came back,” from the dead and tied up some loose ends such as ordaining him to be prophet and telling him to kick out of the church, Truman Barlow and a whole host of other potential “prophets” as well. Uncle Rulon was very specific in teaching that he was the last prophet. To have questioned the statement could have gotten one excommunicated. I know. I asked Uncle Rulon if he was going to ordain anyone else to the High Priest Apostleship and he made it very clear to me that he didn’t need too; that he was going to be renewed and wasn’t going to die.

Truman Barlow and Warren Jeffs, both aspiring men, were trying to get ordained to the apostleship so they would be in line just in case Uncle Rulon did die. Truman had gone through Uncle Roy’s sickness (when he was saying he wasn’t going to die) but he too died. Truman made no bones about what he wanted. He just went and asked Uncle Rulon to ordain him. Uncle Rulon trounced him but good. Warren was more devious than Truman and other Barlow men about his aspirations and waited until Uncle Rulon’s mind was almost totally gone, then he tried to get Uncle Rulon to publicly name him as his successor which he ALMOST did one time and, as far as I know, is the closest Warren got to being named. It happened like this:

Warren drilled Uncle Rulon extensively on what to say before a public meeting. At the end of meeting, when Warren would customarily “turn the remaining time over to Father,” as he always used to say two minutes before it was time for meeting to let out. Warren did this because Uncle Rulon tended to ramble a lot during those last days. We usually expected uncle Rulon to be able to remember enough to say at least “God bless you and carry on,” or something along those lines. Sometimes, though, he would ramble on for fifteen or twenty minutes, repeating over and over things to us that Warren, earlier, had coached him to say. Afterwards, Warren would frequently be put in the very embarrassing position of trying to explain the ramblings away. Sometimes Uncle Rulon would ask a question and Warren would try and answer Uncle Rulon’s same questions in a different way each time, so that it appeared to us like an intelligent conversation was being carried on. This was all very embarrassing to those sitting in the audience as well because we had to pretend that he was being renewed or face censorship.


At this particular meeting, Uncle Rulon forgot Warren’s coaching. He could remember that he was supposed to name someone to have been chosen of God to take to his place, but when he tried to say it, he couldn’t remember what Warren had told him to say, so he said, “God has chosen or fingered Rulon T. Jeffs”, and pointed to himself. That was his own name, not Warren’s. Surprisingly, Warren continued on with the meeting, as he had already planned. He acted as if he had been named anyway, which he hadn’t, and he said, “I accept Father’s calling.”

To this day, devout Warrenites point to that meeting as Warren’s “ordination”. They claim, by the burning feeling within their bosoms that they knew what Uncle Rulon meant to say. He just couldn’t get it out. I personally think God wouldn’t let Uncle Rulon name Warren in spite of all the coaching Warren had previously given him.

After Uncle Rulon died/was renewed, Warren had two of his mothers/wives (Mary Fischer Jeffs/Jeffs for one) try to convince us that Uncle Rulon taught us publicly that he wasn’t going to die, but that he would be renewed and begin having children with his wives again. At the same time Uncle Rulon was teaching that to us, he supposedly taught these two wives privately that he would die and Warren would be the new prophet. Warren told us many times in meetings, “I am Father’s memory.” This is all mighty convenient for Warren, isn’t it?

What is bizarre about all this is that by that time in Uncle Rulon’s life, he couldn’t even remember the names of his wives. I was told that several women who were visiting in his home, noticed that Uncle Rulon thought that he was married to them in the morning, but then couldn’t even remember that they were married at all in the evening and he would offer them another husband. Luckily, these women visitors were not yet ready to trade in their old husbands for new ones.

Those two wives of Uncle Rulon who proclaimed Warren was to be the next prophet, certainly never told anyone of us about these grand new prophecies until after Uncle Rulon was dead and after they were married to their son, Warren. Later, Warren pressured his full blood little brother (Isaac Jeffs) to read a statement/testimony backing up the women’s claims. I guess that Warren figured that with those three close family members as witnesses, he could go ahead and take over the FLDS church and all of us gullible people would just swallow it. That’s exactly what happened.

From Someone With A Longer Memory than Warren is Used To,

Nameless and Still Alive

Anonymous said...

Thank you Nameless,
Did all of this start with the "dream" by Rulon. The dream that Rulon was going to live 365 years.

The dream Rulon supposely told Warren and Warren repeated it to everyone and anyone who he could repeat it to. Even to the point Rulon believed it himself.

A dream concocted by Warren.

Anonymous said...

12/1 11:05
I know who Ervil is...but who is the "Mitchel" you are referring to?

The poster is refering to polygamist Brian David Mitchell aka "Emmanuel" He is presently being held at a lunatic asylum in Utah, if found sane he will be tried on kidnapping, rape, and burglry charges.

Here's a URL with more information on Mitchell's crimes: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/mitchellcharge1.html Cut and paste URL to browser.

THe only real difference between Mitchell and Warren Jeffs is that Jeffs has money & follwers.

Anonymous said...

Correction, copied URL for polygamist Mitchell incorrectly, here's the correct one:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/mitchellcharge1.html

Cut and paste URL to browser.

Richard said...

Quote: Who is responsible for them?

His name is Robert Crossfield. Here is some information about him:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet_Onias

Faithful Woman said...

Thank you Nameless.

That is the way I remember it.

The dream sermon was earlier.

And yes, to ask who was the next leader or even the next in line was very offencive to Rulon. We wanted to avoid the confusion of transition from one leader to another like who had authority. It didn't get us kicked out but we were let know under no uncertain terms that Rulon was the last prophet, before the stroke.

rhi said...

Nameless, you definately remember it the way it was.

We went to Sunday Dinner that day and discussed it among ourselves and our patriarch let us know that Uncle Rulon meant Warren Jeffs was next and that was where his allegiance was. From then on, it was hard to show up to Sunday Dinner, we didn't feel good about putting words into the prophets' mouth.

Uncle Rulon would yell over the pulpit "Do you know what I mean?" and everyone would think and say, "He is getting stronger, he is getting renewed." And I would say "What is wrong with him?"

I wish I had a copy of the church meetings for the last 5 years. Just so that we could remember what happened.

This is the kind of history I love to see on this blog.

rhi said...

At least now we can say what we think. Back when the sermons were getting preached, we couldn't. The price of losing our family and fellowship was too great.

Anonymous said...

If somebody did happen to record most of the meetings of the last 4 years of Rulon Jeffs' life, how much longer shall we let them keep telling lies before the tapes get to the media?

Anonymous said...

I'll knock, you ask.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone have personal recordings of the last 4 years of meetings? I don't mean the whitewashed copies, I mean the actual recordings as they really were.

Remember when Warren would panic after Uncle Rulon accidently said something in meeting Warren wanted hidden up,Warren would say,"any one that recorded this meeting will bring the recording to me after this meeting is adjourned".It wasn't long before personal recordings were banned altogether except for Lee Bistline Jr's official recordings.

Even Orville Johnson(who had been in charge of recording meetings for years)was banned from recording meetings.I guess Warren didn't trust him any longer.

Warren really proved his trust in Orville when he kicked him out last year and took his family and home.

CCIC

Anonymous said...

It took a "act of congress" to get a copy of church tapes. And then you had to return them. So I am willing to bet that nobody here has any.

onthestreet said...

Anonymous said...
STREET'S REPLY: First of all, this assumes that they are "FAITHFUL". I will quote God directly: "If ye do not what I say, YE HAVE NO PROMISE".

Street you quoted God directly? Just where is this wonderful scripture or revelation found. 12/03/2005 12:27 PM

STREET’S REPLY: Doctrine and Covenants 82, and quite a number of Holy Bible references on the topic of Promises being contingent upon “Obedience”. I can provide some of the biblical references if you’d like, or a good Bible Concordance will do the same. Here’s a few:

Romans 4 - Justification By Faith
(Romans 4:13, KJV). Verse 14 - If keeping the law of Moses was the means of becoming heir of GodOs promises to Abraham, then faith would be ruled out; ...
www.bible.ca/ef/expository-romans-4.htm

Obey: A Four-Letter Word (No. 212)
Because of Abraham’s obedience, God gave great promises to him and to his ... (KJV). The Bible has much to say about obedience and wisdom – and the opposite ...
www.ccg.org/english/s/p212.html

The Holy Bible
The Church has consistently used the King James Version (KJV) for formal ... "The Beatitudes, or promises of blessings in Jesus' Sermon on the Mount (Matt. ...
www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/bible/

God's Covenant through Moses
This is probably what God means in Exodus 34:10 when he promises, ... Therefore, the obedience required in the Mosaic covenant is the obedience which comes ...
www.desiringgod.org/library/sermons/83/121183.html

The Importance of Blessing the Jewish People
We owe the Jewish people a debt of gratitude for the blessings we have received from them. Through Israel the promises and the covenants were given, ...
www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/ Blessing_the_Jews/blessing_the_jews.html - 35k - Cached - Similar pages

Genesis 12:1 (King James Version) :: Forerunner Commentary ... Because of the peoples' recalcitrance, God withheld His blessings, ... because His promises to them were conditional, based on their obedience to His ...
bibletools.org/index.cfm/ fa/Bible.show/sVerseID/300/eVerseID/302

onthestreet said...

Anonymous said...
STREET'S REPLY: First of all, this assumes that they are "FAITHFUL". I will quote God directly: "If ye do not what I say, YE HAVE NO PROMISE".

Street you quoted God directly? Just where is this wonderful scripture or revelation found. 12/03/2005 12:27 PM

STREET’S REPLY: Doctrine and Covenants 82, and quite a number of Holy Bible references on the topic of Promises being contingent upon “Obedience”. I can provide some of the biblical references if you’d like, or a good Bible Concordance will do the same. Here’s a few:

Romans 4 - Justification By Faith
(Romans 4:13, KJV). Verse 14 - If keeping the law of Moses was the means of becoming heir of GodOs promises to Abraham, then faith would be ruled out; ...
www.bible.ca/ef/expository-romans-4.htm

Obey: A Four-Letter Word (No. 212)
Because of Abraham’s obedience, God gave great promises to him and to his ... (KJV). The Bible has much to say about obedience and wisdom – and the opposite ...
www.ccg.org/english/s/p212.html

The Holy Bible
The Church has consistently used the King James Version (KJV) for formal ... "The Beatitudes, or promises of blessings in Jesus' Sermon on the Mount (Matt. ...
www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/bible/

God's Covenant through Moses
This is probably what God means in Exodus 34:10 when he promises, ... Therefore, the obedience required in the Mosaic covenant is the obedience which comes ...
www.desiringgod.org/library/sermons/83/121183.html

The Importance of Blessing the Jewish People
We owe the Jewish people a debt of gratitude for the blessings we have received from them. Through Israel the promises and the covenants were given, ...
www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/ Blessing_the_Jews/blessing_the_jews.html - 35k - Cached - Similar pages

Genesis 12:1 (King James Version) :: Forerunner Commentary ... Because of the peoples' recalcitrance, God withheld His blessings, ... because His promises to them were conditional, based on their obedience to His ...
bibletools.org/index.cfm/ fa/Bible.show/sVerseID/300/eVerseID/302

Anonymous said...

I can't help but wonder how Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Joshua, all the Judges, Saul, David, all the Kings, all the Major & Minor Prophets, writers of the Gospels, Pauline epistles, those of John, Peter, Jude, Luke's Acts of the Apostles, James, and Hebrews ever made it without a computer to aid in their writings. I guess they had to await Divine inspiration not some search engine to discover another .com.

onthestreet said...

Their minds are nature computers, and far more efficient the our antiquated machines of today.

Anonymous said...

that being the case, why do you refer to the .com's so often?

onthestreet said...

See! Nobody's perfect (yet).

Anonymous said...

Street give me your defination of perfect?

How does Street become perfect?

onthestreet said...

WARREN JEFFS (your means of reaching God's presence). That is perfection: "One man on earth at a time", says the Lord, in both the Mormon and the Christial Canon.

Christ and His prophets are the most maligned of all people, in every generation.

onthestreet said...

Now, analyze it: "Per-Fect": Pur or Par is to be pure, and on par with heaven. Par in Hebrew is Poor, to unburden yourself of all possession, and all burderns of thought and act, and every evil feeling of the heart, and unite them with God, through one chosen vessel.

The camel cannot enter the heavenly Jerusalem until it fully unloads and gets on its knees, and goes through the eye of the needle under the wall of the city. The eye of El is the all-seeing eye of God, the abyss, through which you are set APART (Par, Pure, Poor). That is where you attain your personal APA-crapha (your hidden, secret knowledge), and your APAT-mos. The eye-el or Isle of (A)patmos is where the beloved disciples attain to God's presence, through the agency of one chosen man in our own generation, as John did in his.

onthestreet said...

Even the gods give it all up, for it is an eternal law: "Heaven and earth shall pass away". That is ALOT of real-estate to give up. What do you think a black hole is, anyway. It is the transformation of element into greater element, for the extending of the family. The universe is extending, or expanding.

onthestreet said...

"Lay your burdens down", says the Lord, "and come unto me".

ATAR_i said...

OTS are you talkin to yourself or what? Just post after post of you you you. Or, is there someone only you can see writing back to you?

Faithful Woman said...

lol, he must have gotten confused by his own posts and lost his train of thought.

Looks like a string of "p.s."'s

Anonymous said...

onthestreet said...
WARREN JEFFS (your means of reaching God's presence). That is perfection: "One man on earth at a time", says the Lord, in both the Mormon and the Christial Canon.


Street please give me the exact scripture book and verse please.

Anonymous said...

WARREN JEFFS (means of reaching God's presence)

WHY DO WE NEED JESUS?

Anonymous said...

It has become very obvious over the past several months that street has denied needing Jesus. His whole hope lies within himself and or within his works toward attracting Warren Jeffs attention. He demonstrates no faith in Jesus, and has denounced Jesus repeatedly. Should street claim to be a Christian is absurd.