Wednesday, November 02, 2005

what should happen with Walter Steed?

With the news that Walter Steed might be dismissed as a judge, I was wondering what people thought about the story. He is technically breaking the law by having multiple wives, but in todays society of lax morals, does that justify removing him ?
Also, has anyone on the blog been tried in his courtroom? Is he fair, does he judge the law or do the dictates of Warren cloud his judgement.
If he is swayed religiously, isn't that a more sound reason to remove him from the bench?

83 comments:

Anonymous said...

Anything that I have ever known of Walter Steed has been fair. He was a better judge than the one in Moccasin. That one was owned by the flds.

If Walter Steed should be dismissed as a judge then so should every other judge that has ever had more than one companion or relationship.

Anonymous said...

Amen! I was astounded at the one encounter I had with "Judge Steed."

He was fair, levelheaded and decent. I say keep him. There are far to few like that anymore.

Anonymous said...

I wish I would have been able to go to Walter instead of Sam's boy in Moccosin. But, he wasn't a judge yet so I had to pay the piper.

Walter has always been a stand up guy and treated me very good. The previous post is right...if every judge who cheated on his wife/girlfriend/main squeeze was kicked out and you couldn't be considered for a judgeship if you had, there would be very few people who would qualify.

Tapestry will move against any plig; they are all "childmolesters" as defined by them. But painting them all the same color is too wide of a brush stroke.

LTG

rumor-has-it said...

I have never met Walter Steed as a judge. But from comments around town I would say that he is a fair man and has alot of common sense. They shouldn't let his private life be a judgement call on his job. ...After all look at Bill Clinton...

Merycia said...

I don't have any personal experience with him, but I think his conduct AS a Judge is what should matter, not how he arranges his family. Even though he is a member of the FLDS, he apparently hasn't married minors, and his wives stand by him.

I do think this is an interesting question. Polygamous police officers from this community have been de-certified, and the argument for that varied from polygamy to failure to report abuse to DCFS/CPS, etc. There have been efforts to disbar polygamous lawyers (Carl Kingston, when he attempted to defend either Daniel or David, I don't remember.)

Where do we draw the line? People who have committed felonies (who have been "convicted") cannot become practicing lawyers.

There are, however, plural wives who have become lawyers, too. Do they get disbarred? What about the argument that we should be helping women and children of polygamy to be educated? Do we really want to help them be educated, or only if they leave?

At least one of the lawyers who argued Lawrence v. Texas before the U.S. Supreme Court was gay. Prior to Lawrence v. Texas, Bowers was precadent law (set down by the U.S. Supreme Court). Bowers runs along the lines of the Dread Scott decision.

Anonymous said...

any and every good judge in America understands the term "Conflict of Interest"

he's a good judge? Fine... move to Calfornia and be a judge.

The FLDS wants justice and fairness, yet look how they play the game.

keep sweet eldorado,
stg

Faithful Woman said...

I've never met him as a judge, but all contact I have ever had with Walter has been fair and honest. Which is a lot more than I can say for some other FLDS members.

Anonymous said...

Well, I heard he was a faithful follower of Jeffs.

That did it for me, plus duh....he is breaking the laws of the Utah isn't he.

And polygamous wives as lawyers fire them also.

Anonymous said...

Rumor

I don't think that I would want to use Bill Clinton as the moral model for anything. That guy couldn't go to the toilet without taking a poll.

Faithful Woman said...

Bill Clinton's affair with Monica wasn't what infuriated the Americans, it was the fact that he lied about it.
He still served the remainder if his term.

Anonymous said...

Read some history. In the 1800s the Federal laws went right down this same path. First the polygamists could not hold public office, then they couldnt vote, then they included anyone associated with the Mormon Church.

Read the Reed Smoot hearings and see how stupid this arguement can get.

It doesnt have anything to do with Walter Steed. Its a campaign against a lifestyle. If Walter does a good job - leave him alone.

Whatever ruling goes against Judge Steed, or Officer Roundy based on their religion should also be applied to every follower of Joseph Smith, Mohamed, or Budda, or Native American - and atiest!, and to any other member of a religion that condones multiple relationships.

In other words - Leave him alone and let him do his job.

Anonymous said...

Okay, first of all, not every follower of Joseph Smith is a member of a religion that condones multiple relationships. For example, the Community of Christ, the Strangites, and the LDS Church don't approve of multiple relationships.

Second of all, do we know for sure that Judge Steed broke the law? I mean, it would be illegal if he actually participated in a civil wedding with all three of his wives, but is he legally and lawfully wedded to all three? If not then (legally) he's just cohabiting with more than one woman and (thanks to a lag in morals in the past 100 years) that's not a crime.

Anonymous said...

Judge Steed is one of the most honest and forthright people I have ever dealt with in my life. I have been around a fair amount of judges in my short but adventurous life, and he is the only one that made me realize that only I can change my circumstances, and do something with my life. He is the only one that helped me realize that I didnt want to continue on the path that I was on. He didn't make me feel guilty, he just encouraged me to take a good hard look, and understand that I was the one responsible for my own destiny. I am the one who will determine how my story will end. I hope they let him keep his post!

Faithful Woman said...

Not that he gets much money from it. What was it the paper said his income from being the JP was? about $350 a month?

Anonymous said...

10:00

Don't lump Steed in the same boat with Officer Roundy. Roundy has shown an uncanny ability to ignore pleas for help from people who are not of his faith. He has shown several times that he will not raise a finger to help anyone that doesn't worship the same person he does, although he had sworn to do so, its part of his job. Say want you want about Lenore, but a police officer sworn to uphold the law cannot be judge and jury and decide where a minor should live. That one story alone made me sick to my stomach.

He has also shown total lack of regard for the law in not reporting 20+ sexual abuse cases. His attitude was, "Sorry dude...we live way out here in the sticks and don't really read the memo's." The only place I've heard lamer excuses is from Beavis-n-Butthead. I'm glad Copeland beat the shit out of the kid that molested his daughter. Roundy had shown several times that he wouldn't do anything.

I would have a completely different opinion if Steed had married girls younger than 18, but since they were old enough to choose of their own free will as adults, let him alone.

LTG

Anonymous said...

HEY! Watch the language!

Anonymous said...

I believe Walter Steed is a great man. I think that the law is full of shit. I do not think there has been an honest court case in Utah for one hundred ad fifty years. All the law that exists is who pays the most, who puts on the best show and what lawyer a person can get to barter an interest. I think the law is bull-shit. But Walter Steed is ok.

GBNF said...

Walter Steed is at the mercy of a prophet he aligns himself with. He could loose his wives, children and home. Can that be trusted? Even though he associates with his 'LOST' children, if instructed would he stand by justice or would he stand by his prophet?
I think this issue is not about being a polygamist, but his association and affilation with criminals.

Anonymous said...

Whoopty-doo-da-day;
It is Tapestry charging him. Whoopty-doo-da-day. What a joke is that. Tapestry exploits and uses people. What claims do they have to speak. They are the most vulgar people next to Justice for children and Flora's group. It seems today a person can do all kinds of filthy corrupt things, like publicly kidnapping people and say they are saving people. And your filthy laws are against a culture. I can tell you this, Tapestry will not win this case. I think that before this is all over, they will regret the day they ever took up arms against a people for religion. And all in all, it may be a favor to Walter Steed to not be associated with such wickedness as what goes on in law. And there is nothing honost about the law. And who-ever said that the government would kidnap children, I agree with. Justace for children are the grossest people I have ever met. And they would kidnap. What are you all blind? YOur own president sells your country and your soldiers die across the country and you think there is any honor in law. And you think to accuse honost men. I say Tapestry, I hope you get your own justace ten-fold. And the same goes for the rest of you. What you give comes back ten-fold. May it speedily come upon you.

Anonymous said...

And if any of you are so blind to think that this government cares one little whit about you, look at the way they responded in the Hurricanes. How many People died needlessly, and how many of you have men who came home from war, with the government claiming they were hero's, but they were still dead. I think that when you voted for war, maybe you did not know what you voted for, but non-the-less war is upon every nation. Floods and earth-quake's are abound and all you people can think to do is uphold the persicution of religion.

GBNF said...

What do you know about the Hurricane Victims? Where you there? or did you somehow get a vision of what the "evil" government did? I think you need to check your information, did you get it all from the media? (the "evil" media) that you cannot trust?
You say the media is wrong about the FLDS(and Jeffs boys), but it all of a sudden is correct in the reporting about the Hurricanes. You seem to pick and choose what you want out of the media, just like you do the scriptures.

Anonymous said...

I seen enough on telivision to know that i want to see no more. I know that the media is full of garbage and maybe if you knew the truth you would not have voted for it. But I ask you, was you over there helping those storm vitim's? Did you help the war vetran's? Did you help the street beggars? Did you even help your own family this week? Did you give every other soul that you met the same freedom's that you wanted for your-self? I say who did you help? I helped all I could. But, hey it was you guys that voted for war. And it is your President that sold your freedom's a long time ago. But, hey don't take my word for it. INvestigate this your-self. Get out and talk to people and not telivision that is all sensored, biased and predjudice. And who was freed across the sea? I think we are in the middle of another world war, and America is losing. That is my opinion. And frankly how I choose to worship God is none of your busisness. And american traitors are just that. We are suposed to be the country of the free and the brave, not the "plunderer's of worship like me and be like me"

Anonymous said...

"America the Plunder's of the free!" how is that for the name you are making for your-self. It is our constitutional right to believe how we want. Now if you People would start persicuting all the gay and lesbian's and vote that every one has to be in a certian church and believe a certian way, then I may think that you are more than hate group's, but as long as you only tolerate laws to persicute people because they are different than you. And you think this government is HONOST? I think then you are in for a great rude awakening. I know they are filthy liars and the media also.

Anonymous said...

And if you really think that the twin tower's fell from two planes, watch the filthy media film's. The un-edited ones. And turn of there voices. Listen to the first hand accounts of the people. And why could these planes fly over american air space and not be deteted. No matter how you look at it, this government betrayed you and the country's across the sea. They betrayed What America is based upon. They have put restritions upon the schools. They have taxed you beyond measure. They raise the price of gas to pay for your dead soldier's. And you have the gall to plunder me because I believe in God. I think that by the time this war is over, all of you will regret you voted for war.

GBNF said...

Ruth--(I know you are Ruth from your spelling and ignorance). How can you help anyone? Help yourself! Take your medication. For it seems you are very disturbed. How can you hate the greatest country of the world? Your country, I suggest you buy a ticket to any country in the middle east and enjoy the freedoms offered. After a year in a middle eastern country I would love to discuss the evils of America with you.

Anonymous said...

Do not get any weird Ideas. I love my country. I just do not like traitor's. And if you blame every bit of spelling error's on to a weird woman, you are weird too. And do not wait for a disaster in your home town to find out the gross truth. This government is after controle and manipulation.

Anonymous said...

And it is no secret that this war on Short Creek is a religiouse battle, based on filth and lies. And it is no secret that Justace for children is a child perversion project. It is no secret that Flora is a drug addict. It is no secret that Help The child brides was taken over by this drugg addict. And it is no secret that the first question asked a person in court is who they follow. There is no secret that religious persicution is in process. And it is no secret that this blog is infiltered with haters. And if a good judge is removed because some hate group can prosicute, then this nation is in dire need of a major over-haul. And there is absolutly no way I have any desire to go to any other country. American's are dieing there. Why? To them American's are the terrorist's. And I say there are some good American's, just not any good reason for war. War kill's no matter who is right and who is wrong. And incidentally are you saying that you think, that this government was justified in letting all those people in New Orlean's to die needlessly. I say I am greatly disturbed, but if hating war and Terrorist's constitute a person as weird, then I am glad I am not normal, and did not vote for war. And any one can plainly see, that this government did not rush any troops home to help American's. Just to send them home to be buried. And how much money do you think the government collected on them?

Anonymous said...

Hey Toots,
There was no national vote for the US to go to war. WTF are you talking about? You're blabbing and blaming us that we "voted for war". NO WE DIDN'T. The government officials made that decision. WE DIDN'T

And about those planes that downed the Twin Towers. You ask "And why could these planes fly over american air space and not be deteted." It's because they were planes owned and operated by US airlines but some middle east Al-Quaida terorists hijacked them and crashed them into the Twin Towers. This whole tragic incident caught everyone by surprise. But they were AMERICAN planes flying in AMERICAN airspace like they do every day. That's why they were in American air space and not detected as a danger.

When you say "They have taxed you beyond measure." you are probably speaking the truth. They are taxing the daylights out of us to pay for the bums in this country who don't work and take and take and take government aid. Kind of like the people in Colorado City who took 8 MILLION DOLLARS in government money in one year and only contributed 72 THOUSAND in taxes they paid. I think that somehow the people in Colorado City think it is their entitlement to get this aid. WELL IT ISN'T and maybe the government should take a hard look at this situation and shut off the funds.

If you feel so sorry for us poor working chumps who are being taxed to death, then tell the Brethren in Colorado City to stop taking welfare, WIC, Medicaid, etc from us and we might get a tad of tax relief.

You sound so holier that thou asking us who we have been helping. Well, I ask you, how did you help the storm victims? How did you help the war veterans? How did you help the steet beggars? Who in your family did you help this week?

Answer these questions before you continue casting stones.

Stop sitting on your ass looking for pity and handouts and start doing something instead of bellyaching about America.

There is an old saying "America, love it or leave it". Perhaps you should pack up and head out, sister.

America is all about freedom and democracy. Otherwise the polygamists would have been locked up decades ago. But they are left alone to practice their religion as they see fit. WITH THE REST OF US PAYING TO SUPPORT THEIR RELIGIOUS FREEDOM. But when crimes occur, that is a different story. NO ONE is above the law. That includes Warren Jeffs.

The situation that is happening in Colorado City has NOTHING to do with religious persecution. It is about crimes against innocent people being manipulated by a greedy and evil prophet who is stealing from his faithful followers, breaking up families and causing much harm to innocent people.

You really should look to the REAL perpetrator. It is NOT the United States of America. It is a sociopath who is messing with peoples's lives named Warren Jeffs.

God Bless America.

Anonymous said...

Your first sentance proves my point. You did not have an election for war, but this government started it. And if you believe the story about the planes being hijacked, explain Ruby ridge and Waco. They took tanks and buried those people. And there was two vidio's. One where flames were coming out of the tank's and one where the sun was reflecting off it. And this government does not give a crap about the people in Short Creek. They are thinking to come in and get money and power and glory. And I do not believe that one person of you out their care about any one here either. Just your sensationalisim. And congress has made laws agaist the consitution. In life and in death, I do not like traitor's. I am american. I do not suport Terrorisim, or filthy lies for that matter. And you have not paid one cent for me. Nor will you.

Anonymous said...

And if you read the post's it was some-one else throwing out the insult's. I threw the question back at them. Who have you helped? And where do you get your information? from a telivision? I bet you think this war is just like any other show on telivision. Just a bit of sensationalism, the media produced to entertain you?

Anonymous said...

Oh, I think that if you happen to be one of the unlucky family's that have buried a soldier, then it is real enough to you, alright. and I ment no offence to you. I shall light a candle for all our dead, and Lament.

The HOPE Organization said...

Hi Ruth,
I would like to clarify one of your statements. The Help the Child Brides group was not taken over by Flora because she helped start it, although it is no longer a "group". That organization was dissolved almost 2 years ago. Today, Help the Child Brides is simply a web site.

There is an active non-profit organization in St. George with a very similar name, called Hope for the Child Brides. The HOPE organization is run by totally different people. It is a shame that the name is so close to what Flora's group was called, because it obvioulsy confuses people.

The HOPE organization does help people who want to leave polygamy. The HOPE organization does not take a stand as being for or against polygamy. We try to leave the religious aspect out of the equation and just address the needs of the people we help.

Maybe we should consider changing the name of our organization to alleviate the confusion of being part of the other group that is now extinct, but it would be very expensive to do this and we would rather spend the money on helping folks than on legal fees.

Anyway,in all fairness, I just wanted to help you understand that Flora's group was always Flora's group - she did not take it over. But our group is a different group with different people involved and different people running it.

Anonymous said...

ok, I have noticed that every body that was conected to Flora is wanting to seperate them-selves from Flora. BUT PLEASE QUIT CALLING ME SOME WEIRD WOMAN.

Anonymous said...

I am glad you have changed and you are not an organization conected to Flora. I am glad there are people who would help other's. I hope you are very sucessful at helping other's. And Bob Coran was not part of Flora's group. He was humane. I am glad you are not flora's group any more.

The HOPE Organization said...

It looks like more clarification is needed.

Reply to Anon 11/05/2005 11:25 PM
I am not trying to "seperate from any connection to Flora." I am just trying to clarify the 2 different organizations that have such similar names. The HOPE organization is a different group than Flora had and it is not connected to Flora.

Reply to Anon 11/05/2005 11:30 PM
I hate to burst your bubble, but Bob Curran WAS part of Flora's group. Bob and Flora were 2 of the Directors on the Board of Help the Child Brides.

Bob Curran has never been a member of the HOPE organization. Flora Jessop has never been a member of the HOPE organization.

I do not want to sound "defensive" but I would like for people to realize that these 2 organizations are totally different with different members and different philosophies.

Is the distinction clear now?

Faithful Woman said...

hftcb

Thank you for the clarification.

Ruth reminds me of a few other people, you can tell them something ten times but in their mind it is still the way they figured it to be. No telling can change their minds. It is a bit frustrating, but after a while, no one takes them seriously anyway.

so far on this string Ruth is the only one who I have seen call herself a "wierd woman"

We love you Ruth and want the best for you, but wish you were easier to communicate with.

ATAR_i said...

Unfortunately - I'll have to disagree with many of the posters here.

It's not that I have intimate knowledge of Steed, or the naive belief that all judges live upright moral lives.

However, men who choose this profession are sworn officers of the court, and sworn to uphold the law.

If this man wants to be a high powered TV producer - more power to him, if he chooses to be an Olympic athlete and represent the US - great, the milkman, the tailor, the butcher, own his own chain of computer stores - great. But not a sworn officer of the court.

For me, his behavior - no matter how exemplary, can not override the fact that he is breaking the law.

Many people do things in the name of religion, and some people should just say - nope, can't do that.

For instance. A woman in the area I live stated that it was her religion to carry this large sword. So, she brought this into her local hospital, and insisted that she be allowed to bring this down to her medical procedure.

To stunned to know what to do, the nurses and the hospital let it happen - but it's not ok. It's not OK to allow a patient - to carry a weapon, it put the staff, the patient, and other patients at risk.

Sometimes - despite the fact that we all want to be understanding and give people latitude with their personal beliefs it doesn't always work in all situations.

Anonymous said...

Explain how you would excuse congress in making laws against the constitution, which is illegal to do. It appears to me that it is the State of Utah who has broken the law, and they have made a law against this nation. Do you realize that if you allow this law to be passed that they are trying to get passed, it will affect you people a lot more than us. WE are used to being opressed by the government. We grew up with this persicution. I can not imagine that you would tolerate such treatment though. I think that if this congerss was to make a law against you because, say for instance you believed in ice skating and did this, you would protest heavily. Or say for instance you wanted to, well any-thing that made you different, you would raise up and impeach this entire government. But since people are generally oposed to this life style, then it is permissable to persicute.

That is what is good about the constitution. It is the law and if congress makes laws against it they are TRATIORS. So when all you people start following the law, let me know and my yawn will be over.

Anonymous said...

And if you think that I am going to give up my life style because you hate me and think I am not living the law, that is your problem. If you put me in the grave because of my life-style, then i will be rid of all your persicution and insults forever. I shall never have to see you again, or hear how much you hate me and how illegal I am.
And frankly every day people go and leave this world. They said on the news, that a quarter of a million people have died in the last year from nateral disaters. Now maybe you are one of those people who say that things happen like this all the time. I have never heard of it. I have been here a long time. I did notice that a lot of grass grew on the desert. And the world ended for all those people. The world they knew any-how.

Anonymous said...

And see if you can get sience to figure this one out; if every soul on earth died, the earth would still rotate. A
And sience with all it's whit, has figured out how to rob.
What disiese do doctor's say there is a cure for? Cancer? Diabetes? Any-thing?
YET, YOU PAY BILLION'S for people who tell you right up front they have no cure for your disiese. What great big people you claim you are, yet, you could not even save those in the Hurricane in New Orleans. And the one's who would have helped were labled as renagades. And this year, a man starved his wife on national telivision, just because she was the most helpless. What a nation. I fly the flag of the free and the brave, not the coward and the spinless. I fly the flag of the American Constitution which clearly protects, the persuit of happiness. And Justace for all. I think God will uphold this; Justace for all. After all it is his country and this is what America was founded on "Under God with liberty for all." Take this away what have you? TYRANY

Anonymous said...

And death does Liberate the soul to walk the heavens, if they are Honest... And Tyranny is confined to the lower regions. And this also is a unaversal law. No one lives forever upon this earth, and all you can take with you is yourself. Course if you are used to not taking your thoughts with you; you will have to take those too.

Anonymous said...

Because of science, how many peoples lives are spared that need a C-Sections or have appendicitis? How many cases of rabid bat bites still kill people? How many rattle-snake bites kill people? How many cases of small-pox in recent years? How much cholera from bad city water? How many extended lives because of heart surgery?

Anonymous said...

People have been cured of diabetes. I know a co-worker who is no longer diabetic because he got donated organs from a donor who died in a motorcycle crash.

Anonymous said...

And yes, how many people recovered from illness. How many people have taken herbs and recovered, but who did heal you? And how many unreported "oops" came from a doctors lips? Who then did heal you? Can man give life? There are many times a doctor will say, we do not understand, they got better, or They have no chance of recovery and the person gets well. Or they will say, They are fine and the person dies the next day. Who then did heal them? And the price for there glory is rediculous. And who did give you all life? Who then can make life? NOt you and not I. Every day people die. Every day people live. There are imfirmities in all conditions of life, But who then did a doctor ever heal, becasue with out this destiny of life, no one would live. With or with out science. And life is a great miracle and also it is a great miracle the body's ability to heal. And you may not have all those ailments you speak about, but you have aids. snake bites are healable. with out doctors even, but will all the glory of science can they heal Aids. Can they heal what the body does not do naterally? And good, honost, home grown food does more than all the tampering of any doctor, but hey most people have to have there carbon chemicalized, processed, food, so there is a need for your "sympathy doctors" and you pay the bill, so what-ever.

Anonymous said...

And if you knew the real statistics, the papers the doctors do not show you, would you pay there bill? In flagstaf, there was a woman who had a disabled son. She had a disabled daughter too. This girl died right before I went there. Her son was then disabled from an imunization shot. Who then did heal him. The damage is irreparable. And in truth doctors have zero suceess rate. HErbs and food have some, and all live and all die. That is a principle of life. Even good ol' doctors only live about the avrage life time, even with all there glory and science. Your good ol' dollar never even extends their life.

Anonymous said...

Have you ever sat with money in your hand, and asked yourself what it was? it is bondage to the government. WE own the land. WE are americans. WE own the oil. WE are americans. WE own the rivers. We are americans. WE own the fish and the forests. we are American's. Yet, you have put your-selfs in bondage to a tryanacle system. You uphold this. I am not apposed to what makes you happy. If you pay most of your earnings to the I.R.S. that is your problem, but have you ever really sat and looked at that little used peice of paper, that regulates every thing you do? You can not eat it. It grows no food. It is dirty from so many people touching it. It brings no rain. It hoe's no garden. It comforts no one. It is not good company. It can make some one want to be in your company, but then what good is boughten love. In truth, the worth of the stuff, would be just a flash of flame. A second of fire if it was used as fuel. And that is what most generally people are after. Then in the end, all the money dues are transfered over to your next of kin, as they lay you in the grave. And what then was it's use. Or your stuff for that matter, except to keep another in bondage, because they failed to live life, why they were alive. They were too busy trying to pay the bills so they could live, that they forgot to experience life.

Anonymous said...

If Walter Steed has violated a law, prosecute him.

If the state doesn't have the guts to prosecute him, leave him alone.

Utah-- you can't have it both ways. On the one hand you say that Steed is violating the law. But you don't prove that he is--in a court of law. It is merely accusation. So unless you are willing to take on a full prosecution, how can you find fault with him?

The problem Utah faces is that if they prosecute Mr. Steed, they will lose a constitutional battle. The only reason the prosecution of Rodney Holm was successful was his underage "marriage." Not so with Mr. Steed.

Anonymous said...

And then they twisted the truth in Rodney's case to make it look like they were helping.

Anonymous said...

Because there is a law, Saying that a girl can get married at sixteen with their parents permission. This is a gentile law. So UTAH change your law to fit upon reality. If you prosicute every cohabitating relashinship, you would have to fence your state.

Anonymous said...

relationship

Anonymous said...

Take a pill, Ruth. PLEASE!!!

Anonymous said...

Get over it Ruth. If you want to stand up for yourself don't do it in such a sniveling manner.

Faithful Woman said...

The money has no value in itself. It's value is in what it represents, labor and pay and trade. I'd like to see you haul your basket of produce around with you to pay for your clothes and transportation.

Anonymous said...

Don't need a basket. I am not a selfish squabbler. I have what I need. And you forgot your T. Add that to the name you slander and the world will be a lot better.

Anonymous said...

You forgot the T. with the name you slander. Add that and life will be a lot better.

Anonymous said...

Money is simply a medium of exchange. Dependent upon the society where it is honored its value may vary. Some people waste it, others hoard it, some are spendthrifts, some misers, some use good stewardship in management of money to others money means little, but barter is the means of exchange.

Money may be a tool or become your god, depending upon the use you make of it. Money in and of itself is nothing but paper or metal, it has no value until a human recognizes that it may be used in exchange for goods or services. Money in and of itself is neither good nor evil. It may be good if used for good, it may be evil if the love of it becomes the only motivating force in an individuals or groups life.

To rant and rave over its presence or lack thereof proves absolutely nothing. If intelligent people need money for a good cause they usually can find a way to sell something, or work for someone who has work to be done and is willing to exchange money for services.

If having too much money is a problem there are always charitable organizations worthy of donations. Not all of them are worthy, use caution and you should be able to find responsible charities.

Again, money is nothing but an asset, a tool, used either for good or evil. It's eventual intent lies in the hands of the end user.

polywatchin said...

money = power

Anonymous said...

I like your description of money. We could write a essay. Neat.

Anonymous said...

Yes money can be equated with power. Sadly to some people that is their only view of its purpose.

To possess it causes those to whom look to them for the basic necessities of life to be in their power. They in turn part with the money grudgingly and only to those who have earned their favor. But, haven't the others who are their responsibility just as needy?

Do they not need food, clothing, adequate shelter, medical treatment, dental care, education, transportation etc.?

Possession of money is power. How we distribute that money is a true demonstration of our love. Are was as aware of that shy, unlovely child who doesn't step to the front and demand our attention?

Have we really observed the goings on within our family and determined if some of the individuals get preferential treatmentment and others are just luck to get fed? Where is justice served?

How can this display of our wealth be seen as anything except feeding and sustaing the greedy ones? Where is our love?


What is our first obligation? We father children, we marry wives. Are they to fend for themselves if they are incapable? Upon what tenant is our responsibility for their care removed? What just right do we have to take upon ourself more and more and more only to satisfy our own greed.

If we won't accept the responsible role of being father of being a husband in the purest sense of the word, loving, careing, sharing, giving and not just breeding? A stallion can do that. So can a rooster. Are we not created by God to be more than these?

So, you see, if we see money as power are we not in truth making money our god?

Anonymous said...

power-money=nueter Father Warren Jeffs.

Anonymous said...

And if you think that money is what motivates and gives power you are grossly mistaken. Money is a bondge sysetem. God gives life. Poor people have been the richest, and bogas rich fathers the poorest. It is honosty and decency that makes a person rich. A house fancied with stuff, is just a house. A house adorned with love is a home. A house can become a home even in poverty. And the richest of people are the most miserable of fools. And We have a Prophet in Zion.

Anonymous said...

And we have a profit in Zion from robbing God.

polywatchin said...

donators of alot of $ get places better - both house and job. more wives. invited to zion. get in on the top floor so to speak.

Anonymous said...

Yes, but the big and little fall at the same speed. Figg's brother Isaac Newton figured that out. And what goes up must come down with warren.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, so keep it down!

Anonymous said...

O you simple children. Do you not see that it is not money but the value humans place on money that cause the problems. If money had no exchange value a pile of it could be placed in the middle of the street and like salt that has lost its saltiness it would simply would be swept aside as valueless.

In societies where the value of their money has failed there have been instances where people have used wheelbarrows to carry money to the merchants in order to pay the value of a loaf of bread.

Of what value is it if you gain the whole world and lose your own soul?

Anonymous said...

And I would say what i said in the beginning It is the earth, God and Love that feeds a soul.

Anonymous said...

And when they hung our Lord upon the cross, they thought they would stop the work of what he did. He turned over the money tables and died, to bring forth our souls. He said let there be no disputations among you. And we are a nation divided, and at war. I say let peace begin in your home. Let peace begin in your heart. Let peace begin in your city. Let peace begin in your Country. Let peace begin in your world. For what you give will come back, ten fold.

Anonymous said...

The Lord overturned the tables of the money changers because they were using the temple for the purpose of making it a market place. He told them, I paraphrase, "My house shall be called a house of prayer but you have made it a den of thieves." The Lord did not condem commerce, he condemed the fact that the priests allowed commerce to take place within the temple. Commerce has long been established as a means of obtaing that which cannot be produced locally through barter or purchase by coin of recognized value. Both merchant and purchaser contended, haggled, made a bargin, however you want to couch the terms of trade, until an agreeable settlement could be reached, then an exchanged was completed.

The two contintuous issues at the temple were: bying and selling were condoned by the priesthood antime; this practice was allowed on the sabbath.

Anonymous said...

"Giving" is a term used too often by too many groups to hide too many private financings of too many ill conceived, self serving small minded projects.

1. Does the "giving" ultimately reach the intended goal? Was the gift designated?

2. Do we expect some "reward" to pass our way because of our "gift"?

3. Is our "gift" given as a matter of our free will or have we been pressured by someone, or a group of persons to give or face some sort of retrebution?

4. Do we get regular reports as to how our "gifts" are being used?

5. Do we see evidence of those reports being true?

6. Do those who demand that we give more seem to live an increasingly and more wealthy life style. Are their houses, cars, clothing, trips, mode of transportation, gadgetry seem to increase as our wealth diminishes?

7. Are we feeding, clothing, making good health care, dental care, pre-natal care, proper nourishment, education, job training available for our immediate family? Or are they suffering because we are asked to give more? Or, are we trying to gain more recognition by our giving and thus seem to be more righteous than our neighbor? Are you really if your family is in need?

fttc said...

Anon 9:50

When I give a gift I beleive there should not be any strings attached. What the recipient does with the gift is really none of my business. I consider it more of an investment if I expect anything in return or if I want an accounting of what happened to my contribution. You ask some very pertinent questions though. Did those who contributed to the UEP consider it as truly a gift or was it an investment? I think tithes paid are an investment. Not of course in a monetary sense. Anyone who pays tithes according to the scripture standards knows they are investing in their reward in heaven.

I beleive most if not all contributing to the UEP have done so as an investment more than a gift. They were building a communal system that they had an immediate interest in. They were striving to establish some mutual ideals. When those placed in a postion of management violate those ideals and squander the invested means to support the purpose of the endeavor, it is the right of the investors to call them into question. This is where the people as a whole should be with warren.

Instead there are too many still believing him when he tries to sell them the moon. The poor suckers. I would say let them lose their hard earned money. Let them be ruined as they choose. But then I look forward to having to take care of the suckers after they fall and it is not a pretty picture, so I try to prevent it if I can by waking them up to the truth.

I have contributed thousands of dollars myself to the Priesthood leaders. Some of which I know made it into the UEP. I did so believing with all my heart I was helping establish those ideals that would revolutionize the world. I do not want my money back. I want those ideals realized. I want our people to return to the principles established by Joseph Smith when he restored the Gospel. This was the goal of U. Roy and all of the leaders back to JS. Warren is just a stumbling block for all of us. Step over the top of him and lets get on with our lives.

Anonymous said...

fttc:

You, of all the prior posters finally get the point. Why give? If you hope to gain something, can it really be called a gift? We haer of som many charities being investigated and the officers of those self same charities receiving salaries and expense accounts riveling the salaries of a major cooporation. If I gave in good faith, their waste is on their head. They will stand in judgement and give an account for their misapropriation of those gifts. Being a non-mormon, I don't have a dog in your fight. I have seen reports related to salaries drawn by the national chairman of the Red Cross $600,000. +-; the United Way $350,000. +_; the Salvation Army $13,000. plus room and board. Who is receiving the greater blessing?To which organization do you think I am most likely to direct my giving? Which of these organizations is ALWAYS first at the scene of the disaster with water, food, shelter, clothing, council and love in addition to all the above. You guessed right, the same ones who are dedicated most to the task and less to the money. They let the light of their deeds shine through them so that it is not they who are seen but that light glorifies their Father Who Is in Heaven.

Anonymous said...

And God is the giver of all blessings. He doth imeadiatly bless you for what you suposed was yours. god gave all the earth. There is no need for poor, or compition. If you donated to the church and claim you did not recieve, you then did not give your all to your God, but have sent another in his place. Money is not what gives life. Giving is not what brings peace. It is doing what you know inside of you is right. With God there is not any comptition. All is his. He freely gave it all, to bless all people. He gives and he takes. He builds up and throws down. He gives and sends the rain upon all. And all men go into the heavens to lay the mortal body down. There you will only be accounting for what you did and why.

Anonymous said...

And it is those that think they can sin, pay a little dollar to the church and get winked into heaven, that God called Preistcraft. Which he spoke against and turned over the money tables.

mugwump said...

What you allude to was practiced during the middle ages in Catholic Europe. It was called buying 'indulgences'. In some instances I think it may still be going on. However, the payment now comes after the fact of death, now its called praying for the soul in purgatory. I don't adhere to either. I'm not Catholic. Not Mormon either because I believe that my salvation was paid for by God's sacrifice of His Own Son's shed blood on the cross of Calvary as full payment for my sin. That Payment is refered as God's Grace. I accept His Grace by my faith because He promised Salvation to whosoever would come, believe and by doing so demonstrate their own faith by living a life that gives glory to God and honor to Christ who died for my sin. If I do less, does He love me less? No, He still paid the price, my sin is still forgiven I just haven't given honor to Christ as I should.

Anonymous said...

You know I think you and I said the same thing. You can not buy your-self into heaven. If you commit a sin, you pay the penalty of that sin, Until you repent. Like a smoker, you can say Jesus loves that person, but they will still be infilterated and pay the price for the thing. There for it is written that men will account for there own sins.

mugwump said...

I don't argue that you will pay the penalty for your sin on earth. If you develop lung cancer as the result of smoking, that might be the penalty. I am not one to judge. Certainly the thousands of dollars spent for tobacco could have been spent for worthy purposes, but instead have gone up in smoke. That too might be the penalty. The money might be considered as having been wasted.

If you commit a crime you very well may have to pay a fine or go to jail. Remember that Paul spent his last years in a Roman jail. Did he advocate overthrow of Rome? No, his crime, he acknowledged that there was an authority higher than Caesar.

I do not think that these sins we humans commit diminish the love or the price that Jesus paid for our salvation on Calvary. He died, once for all time and all people. If he had to die again every time someone sinned than he wouldn't be Savior, would he? His death demonstrated God's love for man, past, present and future.

Abraham's willingness to offer Issac demonstrated and illustrated to everyone who reads Genesis Chapter 22, who prays for wisdom and understands that unlike Abraham's, God's hand was NOT stayed, but allowed the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross to be completed thus granting the world eternal hope. God Himself paid the price for all mankind's sin. Therein God's gift to the world of the blood of HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON made salvation avilable to all, first to the Jew, than to the Greek.

Anonymous said...

Your point?

mugwump said...

The point was made. Read it again.
Compare it to the two previous Anonymous posts. It was toward their question the post was addressed.

Anonymous said...

Your point?

mugwump said...

Read it again. A child can understand. You could too but don't want to. That's the point, as far as your're concerned.

Anonymous said...

Ah Hah! The insecure finger pointer has struck again.

justanokie said...

hftcb

Thank you for the clarification.

Ruth reminds me of a few other people, you can tell them something ten times but in their mind it is still the way they figured it to be. No telling can change their minds. It is a bit frustrating, but after a while, no one takes them seriously anyway...


I think Ruth is my mother incognito. Either that, or she could be her long lost sister.