Sunday, November 06, 2005

Notice of Meeting for the United Effort Plan Trust

Check this out:
Bulk Mailing Permit # 9

Thursday, November 10
320 East Newel Avenue
7 P.M.

On May 27th Judge Robert Adkins of 3rd District Court in Salt Lake City appointed Bruce Wisan as a "special fiduciary on a limited basis... to preserve, trace and recover" certain property of the United Effort Plan (UEP) Trust. On September 2nd Judge Denise Lindberg expanded his duties to "manage, lease, or rent the property of the Trust..."

In the city council room of Hildale City the special fiduciary of the UEP Trust will hold a town meeting to explain what court rullings have occurred and what changes are being made in the UEP Trust. He and his attorneys will also attempt to answer questions and concerns that any citizens of Hidale City and Colorado City may have concerning the UEP Trust.

45 comments:

Faithful Woman said...

So does this mean that Wisan has finally gotten brave enough to face all of our questions?

Lets not be too hard on him so he doesn't come back again cause there are plenty of questions demanding attention. We all want answers.

I'm sure that this time of year the property taxes will be a major topic.

Who do you think will show up? any "active FLDS"?

Anonymous said...

Faithful:

Do you think any of the warrenites will go to this meeting? Do they care about property taxes?

Are you going to ask questions like:
1. Where do all of the profits from the General Store, hardware store, dairy, and any other UEP sponsered business go?

2. Are they going to start charging businesses rent that are operating on UEP land? Like the gas station in the middle of town, the body shop out on the highway, the gas station out on the highway, the pharmacy, etc?

3. There are a lot of rent monies collected from government leases of UEP property, such as schools, city offices, post office, etc. Where does all of the money go that is collected from these leases?

This rent money could put a big dent in the property tax bill if trustees can be chosen to oversee things before the lawyers and Wisan spend it all.

LTG

Faithful Woman said...

The gas station out on the highway is no longer CJ's, thanks to warren, it closed down. The folks from Centenial Park now run it as The Border Store.

I'm not sure what you are talking about on the rent issue.

I've seen times when one person at similar meetings was so intent on looking at one particular "tree" that they couldn't see the "forest", and it hindered the flow of the meeting and stressed the atmosphere.
We want Wisan to be relaxed and answer questions as best he can. Not have someone so hung up over a particular issue that nothing gets achieved.

onthestreet said...

Not just hung up, hung out (to dry).

onthestreet said...

Not just hung up, hung OUT (to dry for the tinder).

onthestreet said...

Not just hung up, hung OUT to dry, as dry tinder.

onthestreet said...

Not just hung up, hung OUT to dry, as dry tinder.

Anonymous said...

What a coincidence! Seth is released and Street is back. Mean anything? Maybe Seth/Street can tell us about his adventure in Colorado?

Faithful Woman said...

I thought there was some hitch in the bail and Seth wasn't going to be released till it was taken care of. Something about needing an orriginal paper, not just a fax.

Anonymous said...

boy, you people are desperate.

Anonymous said...

Street, do you care to give your comparison of Seth to Judas as Jesus money man.

Gotta be careful of those money men.

Anonymous said...

Gotta be careful who thinks who is desperate.

I know that there are women that are not happy in CC. They have to check in to go out of the house. The doors are locked. The women and the children cannot go and come at will. There are cameras everywhere. The phones are tapped. If someone from Will Timpsons house or Warren Jeffs was not happy, there is nothing they could do about it.

You think that Ruby Jessops story is odd. A 15 year old married. There were four girls at that same time, same age, all married under age without their mothers consent. If that doesn't make a mother wake up, I don't know what will.

The women don't have what they need, they don't get money just for spending, they have to ask for every personal item they need, they don't have their own cars.

Now if I was in their shoes, I would be desperate.

I don't appreciate being tended. As an adult I feel like my freedoms are violated if I have to check in to drive to the grocery store. And as for asking for personal money, I wouldn't.

Anonymous said...

How would you know? even if some man treated there family as such, who would you know? As far as I can tell all this is bull-p.

Anonymous said...

All you have to do to confirm it is call up one of Will Timpsons wives or Warren Jeffs or Lyle Jeffs or Bob Barlows or Donald Richters or Jake Barlow or Steven Harkers or Tom Cox or Joe Steeds wives and be best friends with them for ten years and ask them to go to lunch with you at the Candy Shoppe. See where that gets you...then you will know what I mean.

Anonymous said...

The meeting was good. Only one FLDS member showed.

Anonymous said...

Not that only one showing up is a good thing, but at least one did stay for the whole meeting.

Anonymous said...

Oh yea, the one was David Zitting!!.

Anonymous said...

And you can add another woman to your list. I would not go out to eat with you either. I would hang up if you called too. And we have a Prophet in Zion. Your bogus meeting was trash.

Faithful Woman said...

How would you know Ruth? Don't prejudge. You can only say it was trash if you had been there and still been unimpressed with it. After all, you went to that polygamy summit, why not to a meeting about what is going to happen to all of our homes?
Oh yeah, you don't have to worry, you don't live on UEP property.

Anonymous said...

The reverse should be the case, Lori, as the home you and Ross (Marvin and Charlotte paid for) built was about to be condemned before you moved into someone elses house and passed it off as your own. Ruth and her family put far more into building on UEP than you ever did. I guess we're back to the same ol' argument. But I still think Ruth has as much or more right to speak than you so let's give her her due.

Anonymous said...

I was greatly shocked at that summit I went to. I could not believe such things happen in our country. I did not go to another. I shall not. I shall not go to another meeting of this government for any-thing. I bought land out to cane beds to avoid a fight. I did not get the title. But a man who fights upon U.E.P. land recieved four thousand dollars cash. I walked away from the deal to avoid a fight. I have been cheated by a lot of people. I voted for peace. I spoke for peace. I still do. Money is not worth war. Land is not worth war. By the time children are grown in war, they are also hurt. That film woman took advantage of me. I was going off drugs. I was lucky I lived through this, and she took advantage of me. She went to canda and talked on a show and tried to get the people to eliminate all the people in Canada before they got to be as many as in the United States. I was very shocked. I thought she was going to help me build a woman's shelter, and i find out she is rooting for the destrution of an entire people for there culture. I have told her I will take none of her money. I am not fighting the U.E.P. I am not fighting with any one individually. I do not agree with war. That film woman has hummiliated me beyond reason. She did not portray my opinion in the least. She took advantage of me because of what I said about Dick and made it to look like this is how I felt about my Church. I have defended my people. I shall continue to do so. Last I knew all of you that are seeking to break up the U.E.P. were my people. I am not santioning this. If you thought that you are greatly mistaken. I am a disabled Citazin. I was forced on drugs and have a disability because of this. I am in no way stupid, but I am disabled non-the-less. I was trying to be forced to give up my love for the Prophet and our People. I will not do this. I can not change how you people feel. I wish for none of you to lose your home. I lost mine six years ago. I lost my family too. I lost my rights. I lost my dignity and every-thing that is dear upon American soil. My daughter thinks she is anothers child. I swallow my pride every day to not pick up a sword. I suffer the insults of others, because of my disability. I have been labled by this government and set out upon the street. I have not seen one of you in this condition. I hope you never are. I do not know any of you really. YOu are people who sat in my Church. I lift no sword to any of you. I am not fighting over U.E.P. land or your opinions. I am not fighting over your stuff. I am not fighting over your children. If you hate me that is your right. I have made an oath not to fight. And the one who spoke about peace was beat up and thrown in jail. I lost my land. I lost my children. I lost all. And I am still not fighting. I do not suppose I shall ever live down the humiliation of talking to that film woman, who convinced me she was different than other's. She screamed at me and told me I was brain washed and did not know different. I Have helped build three houses. And i shall continue to build, if i can. Which I can not, because I have a heart defect and can not do any-thing much at the moment. I do not want your sympathy. I do not expect that this war will end. I do not suppse that there is charity enough for you to work things out. Stuff has a way of accumulating upon a person. Love has to be built. I made too many mistakes. And i think if you ask people for war, they will shoot you faster. I am no cry baby. If it was not for my own shame in that film woman and what she did, I would say nothing, but DO NOT GET THE IDEA, THAT I UPHOLD THE BREAKING UP OF THE U.E.P. I spent my life building it up. I have told Laurie Allen not to show that film. She told me i had no choice. She is not my friend. I have told her this. I shall not talk to her again. SO ANY OF YOU GOOD OL'AMERICANS THAT SEE IT, chalk it up to a retard from the creek. I do not want your money and I do not want your stuff. No-one can turn back the clock. All you can do is try to live peacable. If you pick up a sword you shall pay the price of war also. I am paying the price of humiliation for trusting again.

Anonymous said...

everyone has their own opinions, be careful when you blame and take away from people what they have been given. One can not know the full story behind the lives that they live.

Anonymous said...

Leave Judgment to me sayeth the Lord.

Anonymous said...

7:45: To you and all others at the Crik under war-boy's spell...

Land is worth war! That's what the revolution in the 1700's was all about (and a few other things) Try to take mine and you'll have the fight of your life! I feel that way because I grew up at the Crik and could never understand the complacency bred into the people....the attitude that "nothing is mine, I don't really care about it, I don't have to take care of anything, I just have to show up, work and donate enough to get my 3 or 10 wives, have a bunch of kids that I can't afford, then die and go sit on the right hand of God" just makes me sick, and it always has.

Start caring about yourselves. Get off your blessed butts and take some responsibility for yourselves, your lives, your wives, your kids, and your property. If you worked half as hard at keeping your familiy structures together and paying for all of your kids as you do to pay war-boy's tithes, your families would be the strongest ever, could never be broken up, and your properties would be well kept and beautiful.

A belief is also worth war. If it means that much to you then fight for it for all that you are worth. But don't turn your backs on your families, don't mistreat the young people, and don't use any of my government's assistance to feed yourselves and your many while screaming about how bad they are mistreating you.

Do one of three things: 1) Get enough people together and by voting, pass a law that makes it legal to ignore the law and take advantage of the young people. If the majority agrees then the government agrees, that's how it works 2)Get your town listed as a Reservation. Then you can start your own casino and have enough money to donate and be sitting next to God in a few years. Or 3) Get on the next boat out.

I used to think you people were the best on earth.....now, it hurts to say that I am ashamed of of you.

LTG

Anonymous said...

Well you aint the only one. It has been a long time since the United States has been at war. I am sure you will have your fill of war. Peace is still the best. It brings family's together. Peace. Peace not war. In every war that has ever been people did die. Who then did benifit. I vote for peace. It feels better. And it does not matter what you say. Your money has not been spent on me. Nor do i believe you have spent much on any one. People who say they spend there money on other's are usually stealing. And we was not in a contest to see who was the best. We are trying to live the way we see fit. You are probably one of those grubby film people or justace for children, and can not get another victum.

Anonymous said...

"Is the price of peace worth slavery and chains? (20 hour days and no family life under warren... I care not what course others may take, but as for me, Give me liberty or give me death"

Faithful Woman said...

OK, anon 11-12 3:59pm
Concerning Ross having earned his home....

Is that something you know of assurity? or is it something you heard.

Ross didn't build a house? Ross worked long hours nights and weekends to build up his father's family from running the cannery in canning season till all odd hours of the night from 13 to 15 years old and going to school in the days, to working on the stucco crew in the summers. At the start of 9th grade he volunteered to drop out of school to do stucco full time.
Now, stucco is a very demanding, labor intensive job. He did not get paid for this work, it all went to his father to support the family till he was in his late teens. Sometime in there Ross's father paid for the utilities hookup on a building lot and gradually paid for materials for Ross to build his house.
One popular criticisum has been that Ross tried to build too big. So he is a dreamer and always has been and I hope he always will be. He has been slamed many times and still he gets back up and tries again. Extremely successful people aren't the ones who have never made any mistakes, they are the ones who keep trying again.

He married me when he was 22 and still we didn't draw a regular paycheck.
Soon he went out on his own with an 8th grade deploma to tackle the world. He has made many friends and fallen victim to many mistakes.

Oh yes, building up the UEP: No we didn't have money to donate, but Ross made many donations of vehicles and parts to the bishop plus building materials and many hours of labor.

I don't know how much Ruth has put into the UEP, but Ross has done much more than he has been given credit for.
Unlike Ruth, I feel like home and country are enough to fight for. My freedoms, and the freedoms of my children, and the freedoms of the inhabitants of my beloved hometown. If we don't fight for our rights and freedoms, we won't have them.

As for Ruth having right to speak, when she says something other than "oh poor me" but don't you dare help me, then what she says means something. Yes she has been hurt and abused and all manner of terrible things. But she is as hard to help as a rabid squirl.

As for you annon, you jump to unsustained conclusions as well as the rest of us.

Anonymous said...

And Lori, do you know that when a person askes you to let them help you, they really mean, let me use you. I am doing well. My point was not to draw sympathy. It was to try to get you to see how blessed you are. you have not walked alone on the highway. You have not been through a lot of things that others have. I think you just need to be grateful. I am not trying to break up or to undo. I think people should work and build. I did not mean to imply that family and home was not important. I just know that Unlce Roy told us, the U.E.P. would not ever be broken up. I am staying on the winning side. I am if I can learn to be grateful. I have a place to live. I have people around me who love me. I made a mistake in talking to that film woman or the media. I mostly sang to the media, and they twist it to make me look weird, because i will not turn from Uncle Warren. That is what i thought, but they made you look stupid too. I think then that it is the job of the media to make people look stupid. I wanted to build a woman's center, so that woman from this area would have an option besides a lock down ward and drugs. I wanted it to be based on healing and acceptance not drugs and lables and segragation. I did not mean to personally attack you. I wish you no harm. I say I do not want any one to help me, because I feel like every one is judging and accusing. Well, People that i know. I have given up on building this place. EVery one treated me like i was a retard, because of stories going around about me. Supposidly I do not even keep any thing straight. I have a government lable. One that was gotten of of anothers lies. I am beginning to think that this place I was going to build is not needed. I was the only one with out a home, and I think the woman who are put in the condition I was put in are being taked care of by other people. It is humiliating that this government treats people like they do. I guess you have never been in a lock down ward, so you do not know what i am talking about. I think that the most important thing in life is to remember that it is not what other's do that determine who you are but what you think you are and what you do with this. I am enrolled in a collage course. It is a writing class. I think that if you are happy that is that. I did not like my name used on this forom. I did not want all the public attention. I wanted to build a place here to help people and make a difference in other's lifes. I have learned a valuable lesson. Life is life. There is not one soul upon the earth who does not have challanges and weaknesses. There is not one soul who has a perfect life. I am doing all right. I really do not like my name used and being critazised for my beliefs and people that i love. I have not been talking bad about you. I am learning to channel my energy in to positive things. This is some thing that every one has to learn. I did not mean to imply that what you believe in that you should not stand by your convitions. I think fighting brings more sorrow. I have been here a long time. I have seen people spend their entire life fighting over this land. Every one who comes after other's think they are smarter than the last. Yet, our land remains. It will remain. I fully believe that God allows all events. He sets up choices. They are like mirror images. One is of the devil. One is of God. He gave us a monotor. IN this is a good feel with what we do or a bad feel. If you can say in your heart, that you are totally happy with your situation; that is that. but i have requested that my name not be used. yet every time some one says certian things, i am blamed. I certianly do not feel like you do, but i am not wishing you ill. I have a right to speak. I have aright to my opinions. And frankly i am glad for the feed back that i get, because make no mistake about it; i do not want to spend one second with people who are only interested in fighting. I am interested in being around people who really care and want to make a difference. If it is the goal of others to break up and divide, so be it. But I want no part of that. The man who was abusing me is not here any longer. I have a home. I really do not need sympathy. I just wanted you to think about what you have and be grateful. have charity for others, because really it is love that you give that comes back to you. And I am sending you all the love I can give you. Being that i do not know you. And remember, I was feeling the pain of not being able to see my daughter. You have a few daughters. Think about this great blessing you have why you have it. Children grow. They are not possesions. They grow and have feelings. They become the next generation to carry on what was given them. I think that the time is to special to be spent fighting. I think that the time should be spent in making sure your children know that they are loved. Let them know that they were wanted and they are needed. That is that. And it is immpossible to break up the U.E.P. That stands for united effort. How can you break up united? WE claim to be United States, and yet move to another state, and it is like moving to another country. In texas, they treat the homless like people. Not like trash. I tell you I would not put my dog in a shelter in Utah or Arizonia. Texas does not try to control and manipulate. They have a system that probably spends less money and the People are treated like Humans whether they look like humans or not. They treat people with dignaty. I am not trying to beat Arizonia down. I like my home state. But I think it needs a major overhaul, in the womans department. I have seen people treat there dogs better, than I was treated in that Arizonia womans shelter. I have heard for years that there is not enough people in this area to put in a facility. I think they are probably right, because the woman who go are woman like me who really did not exist. We are the ones who fall through that cracks. WE are the fools the media finds to make our whole society look rediculouse. so just do not use my name. There are a few people who did help me, and did not take advantage of me. But he majority acted like they were the ones who was on the street. And God took care of me. If a person was honostly interested in helping me and other's who need help, I would be interested. I how-ever do not call it help, to critazise and tear others down to make myself look good. I never accept help on these terms. I do not want government help, because they look at their neat little pile of papers and act like that is the way I am, when the stack of papers originated from a man and his lies. I could talk until I was blue in the face and they would mark there little papers to make them look cute, to keep there neat little profession, professional. Nobody knows me. I could have built the Ifal tower and every one would have thought it was a magic trick, cause I was retarded, and there is papers to prove it. Well, enough talk. I wish you all a happy life. If such a thing is possible in a country divided and a nation at war. I think in time, we will wish we had this shelter. This place of healing. Good day.

Anonymous said...

Reply to Faithful Woman

"Those who seek that privilege of participating in the UEP commit themselves and their families to live their lives according to the principles of the United Effort Plan and the Church ... They must consecrate their lives, time, talents and resources to the building and establishment of the Kingdom of God on Earth"

Sounds to me like Ross met the requirements.

He consecrated his life, time and talents - his resources too.

Why should he not qualify to be a beneficiary of the UEP.

Anonymous said...

What are you talking about?? The media never made Lori look stupid. She is smart, kind, supportive. No, she has NEVER been protrayed as stupid. She is too bright to come across as stupid.

Anonymous said...

Well, I certianly never seen the media clips of Lori. I only recieved my opinions of what she looked like from comments on the web. I have never thought Lori looked stupid. I do not know her. And as I recall, Ross is the one who was doing the complaining. Why would he want to stay with a church that he complains about publicly? I think that he is entitled to excactly what he gave. I see he is still in his house. HIs brother moved to avoid a fight with him. He never owned the land. If you are not building you are destroying. He is not a member of the church. Every body knows the way the church is ran. It was never permissable for a man to go after a woman. That is how we live. That is understood clearly. You people have rallied for the rights of all. I think that Ross has a right to chase girls if he wants to, and when he does he is not any longer a member of the church. Every one knows this. It is common knowledge. The world is big. It is full of diversity. There is enough space for all walks of life. If a man wants to search out his girls, then the world is open to that. Go to a bar in fredonia and you will see how free the world is open to no commitment and no chastity. Where men and woman are as loose as the wind. But in our comunity it is very well understood, you do not touch or make advances upon a girl, unless you have made a commitment for life. So be it. Each to there own. But the U.E.P. is here to protect the ones who want to live a life of chastity, and honor. And frankly lies that are spread about by the media and others never made an ounce of truth. And make no mistake, men who stalk woman are not members of the church. Such men have chosen to break the covnant they made. If they do that is there choice and no business of mine, but since some people are wanting to take a blessing they did not want, and fight to keep what they took for granted. I see that for some it is only about money. I see for some it is only about land. The Latter day saints have been persicuted since the day Joseph set up the church. This is an age old battle. If you do not like to live according to the law, so be it, But it is clearly written upon the books the conditions of church members. The saints have owned a lot of land. They have been driven. They have always started over. They have always been driven from their lands. It is a matter of what you think about yourself. It is clearly written, in the bible and the book of morman how to obtain faith. It is also written how to determine a person who does not live the law. Plural Marriage is a basic fundamental Principle of Mormanisam, and It always will be. NOw, you and all others have a right to reject this. But Ross is like all other men. He will get what he gave, ten fold. This is a unaversial principle. No one excapes it. No one can get around it. Thought is energy. And God does answer prayer.

Faithful Woman said...

Anon 11/14 10:22 pm.

I heard you.

Could you give a name we can call you if you don't want your name used? I don't like mine used either, that is why I use a blog name, as do most of the people on this blog.

To give a person a meal is to keep them hungry still. To teach them how to get a meal on their own is to give them freedom.

Being able to earn money is not a sin, it is freedom from depending on the mercy of others for your very existance.

Faithful Woman said...

Those who chase girls aren't in the "work"? I BEG TO DIFFER.

It isn't done openly because these men themselves taught against it.

The only difference is how much political power they have within the church, or in the case with the younger men, who his father is.

If you do a bit of reserch, you will find many men in Uncle Roy's time and Rulon's time who courted their several wives and won them. Only the men or boys without the political backup were kicked out for it.

This FLDS church and the "work" is and has been about a cast system, the elite and the common and the untouchables.

Anonymous said...

To Ruths last posts,
I don't know the blog name you wish to be called but i wanted to let you know how sorry i am that you have lost your children, home,husbands and the society of your prophet and the culture you were raised in.Many families are in circumstances similar to your own and this all needs to be stopped.This "war"is doing irreversable damage to the minds of our young children.Your children don't know their real mother and so many children have lost their fathers that dearly loved them,all in the name of religion.
I would also like to tell you that while i may not agree with all that you just posted,i understood it.You are to be commended for the choice you made to take a writing class.I would say that is a very positive step in a direction you appear to be pursuing.
CCIC

Anonymous said...

I appreciate your care and concern,ccic. I will say that I have no desire to go back to the men who used me. I am lucky. I can go on with life. I am thinking I may not be able to attend this collage class. I am ill. We have a lot of different perspectives. I am not wanting any one to lose there homes and what they love. How-ever some-one who would sympathize with men who abuse what they have and think that a woman would want to stay with them, need to walk around out-side my city. There are all walks of life. There are simular problems. I do not think that a man who does horrible things to other's and makes no effort to make any kind of amends and the only sympathy they want, is the sympathy to get you to look the other way so they can continue to abuse and then get all this public sympathy to keep them in a position to abuse again, is not right. No matter how you look at it.
And when you talk to me, how about the same curtisoy you give the rest of the posters. Like for instance if I post as anonymous, say anonymous and use the number of the poster. And I have listened to a lot of posters use my name.

If a person say's something good about a man I love; another uses my name and calls me names. So if you want respect give it. And I am tired of certian people calling me names because they disagree with me.
I know how faithful woman feels. At least what she posts about a man she defends on the blog. but should it be that she can call me names and then think i should not say any-thing?
But I beg to differ. We were taught clearly the conditions of membership. And do not think that i blame every-one for me being on the street. I am responsible for this. I have been working on for-giving a certian person. I am not then a canidate for our church with ill feelings being harbored. I am how-ever very blessed in God taking care of me. And it is a personal struggle for me. I am beginning to figure out I can forgive, but that does not mean i have to go back and hold his hand why he abuses me again. That is not for-giving. that is stupidity. I really do not need to take a collage class. I need to write. I need to think about what I write about. I have a side of me, that none but a few have ever seen. That is the real me. The real me, is the one who writes poems and makes up songs. i am tired of trying to be responsible for what others do. I pray for them, but they are the one who makes there own choices. That is a special gift. A
nd faithful, i told you a long time ago, if you do not want me to critazise the man you stand by, do not critasize me for standing by my convitions. god does give us all an oportunity to do good every day. What was your choice? I have concluded to tend myself. I think then that you will all have to tend yourself too. Since some of you asked What to do to end this war; this was my Idea. I think a place should be built. I think that it should be built for healing and not drugs and confinement and lables. I know that some people love lables because they can smoke marijaunia and get a government check. I am not one of those people. Neither are any of them in my church. I am not discriminating against people in my church. I think that if it is discovered that the street drug is indeed in our city, then these people would not be discriminated against. They also would be included in this healing center. There is very terrible side affects of these drugs. I am not limiting this to one drug. There are people who feel like they were unjustly forced upon these drugs, because they were not wanted. I will tell you like this. In california, i met a man who set up system for those that he said who had slipped through the cracks. It was incredible. People would come into him and tell him there trouble. He would tell them fine, i like your skill. YOu are hired. Go to work. These people had the skill, but they did not have the confidence in them-self. They did not have a boss yelling at them and competing. It was incredible. he how-ever had equipment. For what he contributed to society. It was interesting. I wanted to stay and work, but the goofy man who took me to california kept hitting me and thinking he was smart. I left him screaming at me; stuck deep in a river bed, drunk. He told me it was my fault he got his truck stuck. I told the rangers at the bottom of the mountian to go pull him out, but I guess they thought it was a good idea to let him scream it off, and dig his truck out by himself, because I was not in the truck with him, and he is the one who drank and that is what i mean about responsibility. I think if a man lies about a woman and abuses her, she should not try to pay his debt, but he is responsible for his actions. I think then that our cops and all others should uphold the law. If you get out of hand and starting acting like you have the athority to scream and abuse, you should pay the debt. I am not really keen on uniting all these family's. Rest assured I considered my own case well. My children have moved on in there life. I am the only one who appears to be hurt over what this man did. And It appears to me, that a lot of people think I am a little nutty. I then have to build another life for-myself. Like I said, my daughter does not know I am her mother. She does not know that I love her and battled to keep her. I lost. I was out-voted. Now if people loved my dauther that much it is to my advantage to leave her there. I could not have her out on your streets hearing how brain washed and stupid she is because she came from colorado city and right now, she thinks she is a cute little twin with a mother and other sisters who love her. I will never fully recover. It is not worth war. You ask me what to do this day to end this war. Their is only one way I know. I can not do others work. I can only bring it upon me to forgive. I know my family is a great family. I know the reason we have our challanges. I would never want the people responsible back in my life. I how-ever would wish them all the love and compasion they can get. My father is in a rest-home. He will never hurt another soul. He had a stroke. Life goes on. It is better to find what will heal. I thought about at least fifty people who are better off with out me. They have gotten there wish. I gave them what they wanted. I think it is important to take every case individually. What do these people really want? Would they be more miserable here or there? I am staying in my city. I am planning to do all I can to heal, in this war. It will not end. It is beyond my controle. Even in a terrible hurricane the government did not bring government help, until a lot of people have died. The war is continuing. Also there were tornadoes. It reminds me of the story of Gandi. He told a man who had committed a terrible crime to go raise a child of the people he hated. Have you raised a child. Have you helped a sick cat or dog get well. Have you walked with the big cats on the mountian and let them go, and talked to them. Have you set the helpless free, and encouraged the weak to courage? The more you do for a person the more you love them. I tended the most helpless of all human beings. I had a daughter who was a total care child. The doctors wanted me to adopt her out. I would not. I fed her every two hours for ten years. I have not had a child since this girl died. Well, since a few months after. This child taught me the real meaning of love. She taught me the real meaning of love. I seen courage, I have never seen in the strongest of men. She smiled at the day of her death. I must remember the child, not the death. I lost the battle for both children. Yet, my daughter does not know any-thing about my battle. She thinks she is the twin of a beautiful other girl. I want her to have security. I shall have to do my writing. I how-ever need to portray me. YOu then will not hear another thing of my own trouble. Love and forgiveness is the only healers.

ATAR_i said...

Poster above who seems to be taken advantage of by everyone, I'm glad you seem to (at least verbally) be transitioning out of that.

However, I would add, you can't always claim to be a victim of everything, if you refuse to stand up for yourself on any physical level.

I would say, if you refuse to stand up for yourself, property rights or any other matter, you take an active role in your own victimization.

I would encourage you to stand up for yourself in a physical sense as well as verbally. If you truly want your property back, or want to be compensated for the monies and efforts you have exerted, then fight for it.

I have a hard time believing a woman like yourself, would walk away from a fight. You are strong, and fighsty (that's a compliment) - and I cannot believe a woman like you would allow someone to take from you.

Keep trying, refuse to be vicitimzed. It seems you trusted everyone, and then you trusted no one. I'd say the truth is somewhere in the middle, be smart when chosing who to trust.

But don't give up, and don't believe the lie that you can't stop what's happening to you, and you can't make something out of what you have - you definately can - but you have to do more than talk. You're going to have to fight for it (I'm not talking physical violence).

I just can't listen to the victim anymore. You can't complain, if you're not willing to lift one finger to help yourself.

Anonymous said...

9;31 poster,
I agree with you. I am not a fighter. That does not mean that I am not standing by what I believe. I have been greatly blessed. I need to focus on what I do have. I can not change what happened. I can how-ever make the best of what I have. I really am greatly blessed. No-body can give back what was lost, but I think you are right about what you say. I need to look ahead. I have a home. I have friends. I do not need to, nor do I want to fight over land. What I gave to the ones I loved, I gave. I will not take it back. I have done a lot for myself. Thank you for your great kindness and your great words of encouragement. I was free'er on the mountian, but I am greatly blessed in my house. I thank-you for your kindness. And I am not responsible for what negative things others do. I can only make my choices. You do have a point. There is a difference in letting some one use a person again and morning over what happened that I had no controle over.

Anonymous said...

I have to disagree with some of the information in the previous postings. My sister was repeatedly sexually molested by her new stepfather. When she complained to the Priesthood, her reward was to be GIVEN to the molester as his third wife to "solve the problem". She bore him 7 children out of duty. No wonder she chose to die of cancer rather than to continue to be his, and the Priesthood's, victim.

Anonymous said...

Your point?

ATAR_i said...

I believe the point must be, that when this young girl decided to stand up - they beat her down, thus, it's not worth it to stand up?

Unfortunately - I'm certain that type of thing happens, you trust someone, and they dissappoint you. This young girl probably didn't have a lot of choices in who to trust as a youngster. She did the best she could and the people she loved and trusted sorely disappointed her.

I cannot imagine being in her shoes. But I want people to know, that death or continued victimization are not the only choices.

Don't let anyone believe that those are their only choices. HOPE is the one thing that can light up the soul, and give someone the courage to face a difficult situation and get to the other side.

There IS hope. It might not be the life you thought you'd always have, or the one you dream of, but it might be just as good - only different.

And pray, that you can make yourself someone a little girl like that could trust. That you will be the one to hear her confession, and find her real hope, and not a cover up.

Anonymous said...

Your point?

Anonymous said...

To anon. 11/15/2005 at 6:53 pm
Thank you for the information you shared.
You sort of spoke about the drug problem that is rampant in our community.
I would like to hear your thoughts about the over prescription of Prozac and Zoloft to the women in our town.I know one man that said," those drugs were inspired of God".
Do you believe that those two drugs are the answer to the stress the woman of this town are facing?
CCIC

Anonymous said...

Prozac and Zoloft are the new Keep Sweet pills. So whether you believe it or not, it happens.

Anonymous said...

Ruth comes From a Hebrew name which was derived from the Hebrew word re'uth meaning "friend". This is the name of the central character in the Book of Ruth in the Old Testament. She was a Moabite woman who was the ancestor of King David.

So we will just call you "friend"

Faithful Woman said...

Here here to Friend!