Sunday, September 11, 2005

the tower of Babel

QUESTION:
Why, when the Tower of Babel was being constructed, was the language of the people confounded?

84 comments:

Anonymous said...

ANSWER:
Because they were required to put in 20 hour work days on that "work project" and their brains got scrambled!!!

red rocks girl said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

If you want to test this theory, just look at OTS.

Anonymous said...

ok buddy

ATAR_i said...

Are you looking for an honest answer - will this expose a difference in theology that you are aware of?

fttc said...

I had the same thought/question. Where are you going with this?

onthestreet said...

The lawful ascent to heaven involves a process of introduction and key words, in one language under 72-names. The unlawful ascent involves confusion into 72 languages.

Anonymous said...

Straight Shot says,
Of course all Creationist's need to believe in the Tower of Babel, confounding of the languages theory to explain why the peoples of the earth scattered and thus populated different parts of the globe.

And if you aren't a Creationist, Christian, of some sort you don't believe that the origins of the thousands of languages and dialects came from the Tower of Babel incident at all.

I suppose there would be a way to compare that Biblical event to the dispersment and divergent religious sects and cults spreading across the world like a ohh ssaayy Hurricane Katrina.

As most of us have realized through out this blog and others, including sites about the Mormon Church and the break-a-way sects, that there is a whole other language being created in the places where these people tend to cluster.
So they end up having a "secret" language and meaning that "outsiders" are not supposed to be privy to. The other peculiar situation happening with the YFZ Ranch and the other compounds would be the absolute success that Warren Jeffs is having with cuttin off all information about the outside world to the ones he has on the inside.
This will create another whole problem to deal with when and if these people ever end up in the real world again.
The Tower of Babel will seem tame. And since the reason according to Bible History that that Tower was built to start with was to challenge God, we can safely say that there will be the oddest paralell there since some of the last information about Warren Jeffs evolution seems to be that he considers himself to already be a god of sorts.
An Interesting question.

Anonymous said...

This was intended as humor--don't take it seriously.

Anonymous said...

Another factor was the people were separated into 72 separate compounds to prepare the raw ingredients for the tower, and these people were not allowed to communicate with each other.

mugwump said...

The entire account of Babel, it's tower, and God's confusing of the language is found in
Genesis 11:1-9.

An interesting side note relates to Chapt. 10:25 in reference to Peleg, an ancestor of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (Israel) and thus Jesus, the Christ.

Gen. 10:25 makes note that the "land parted" during the lifetime of Peleg. Some interpreters believe that this had to do with appearance of irrigation canals in Mesopotamia others think the this is possibly reference to land mass shift. If the latter, it would account for a cataclysmic event of such great porportion that the world was separated into continents, during the lifetime of Peleg. This is a theory, not an established fact.

Of great interest is: if this event did cause continental division, an even greater impact on a world was suffered than just the loss of a common language.
Why? The men of earth built the tower as an observatory for the purpose of determining and making a chart of the heavens, Astrological charts, a great sin to God.

Anonymous said...

I was there when Nintendo started this thread; the intent was not an interest in factual history or the study of linguistics, but things that are happening now that if taken back in time, could have caused the Tower of Babel. Two responses were excellent and as intended--the 20 hour days scrambling the mind, and the 72 separate and isolated compounds.

fttc said...

Where do you find the record of the compounds at the Tower of Babel? I missed that one somehow. I totally agree with the notion that warren is providing the means of scattering the FLDS over a wide area. One of the men in our history made a prediction that we would be divided to the point that it would be like the shattering of a glass. That describes it well. Some peices are bigger than others, but scattered we are.

Anonymous said...

There are so many predictions in our history--some right, some wrong, that no matter what happens, it was predicted privately by someone. Hey, everytime a leader of any offshoot group dies, five others claim secret ordinations and the right to rule, so by now, the number of offshoots is probably in the thousands.

But, to the subject, nintendo simply intended to have fun, no need for scriptural evidence of 20 hour days or 72 compounds, etc.

Anonymous said...

Warren's secret ordination is so secret that God himself did it.

onthestreet said...

Temples shall dot the land. The initial "spread" of Zion is only strategic, not confusion.

NONNY Said: 3:11 AM: This will create another whole problem to deal with when and if these people ever end up in the real world again. The Tower of Babel will seem tame. And since the reason according to Bible History that that Tower was built to start with was to challenge God, we can safely say that there will be the oddest paralell there since some of the last information about Warren Jeffs evolution seems to be that he considers himself to already be a god of sorts.
An Interesting question.

Curious Reply: When a people unite, as the FLDS folks are doing, their combined theocratic, social, intellectual and technological advantages will be the nucleus of a superior nation in the service and eternal increase of God, not to challenge him. Only wicked imaginations presume that anyone can challenge the creator of the entire universe. You're not safe at all in suggesting a parallel to Babel. Why does the FLDS isolate itself? To do the very opposite, to shut out the Babel, the crime and confusion of the people of the land, while the Lord sweeps it clean.

Anonymous said...

Dream on Warnapoleon.

onthestreet said...

That's It! He is the God of Battle. Very perceptive of you. Nice doggy.

Anonymous said...

POINT PROVEN
ots is totaly nuts

fttc said...

There are parallels for sure but I guess I don't get the point of using a historical event compared to warren's agenda if you don't use historical fact. Why not use something fictional out of the movies? Am I just dumb?

Paladin for Truth said...

The perceived unity that people see with Warren's group of FLDS is harvested from fear and hate. Those people that seem to be working in unity in Texas and such are working long days in fear of being stripped of everything and sent away. The followers of Warren don't like Mormons, Negros, Apostates, Non-believers, Young boys who are full of energy, etc. To sum it up everyone else is considered slightly less than common cattle, except the FLDS loyal and elite followers. All of what we see in Texas, some fine workmanship, is the final monument to 20 years of an empire founded on hate, dishonesty, false witness bearing, jealousy and such for their fellow brethren called into the Gospel. This started with the loss of President Johnson and what was most important to him, the first two great commmandments of the Gospel. This started when President Johnson was getting older and needed some men to help him keep what was most important to him, in the minds of the people. Instead these men found fault with the brethren and divided the people.

fttc said...

Paladin

Very well said. I agree with you here. Especially in your assessment of President Johonson's situation.

Anonymous said...

Don't forget that all the family rearangements and hidden accidents kept from family members caused the people to invent new cuss words that soon became part of their language.

red rocks girl said...

what new cuss words? My vocabulary needs some revamping
ha ha ha

Faithful Woman said...

try "scrud"

Anonymous said...

Those building the tower were unaware that they were building the tower, and whenever asked about it, called it an apostate lie.

onthestreet said...

Those building a lie are unaware that they are building a lie, and whenever asked about it, call it apostolic power.

Anonymous said...

i call it hemmorhoids.

Anonymous said...

Every time the workers got a little discourages, they were given another prophecy that the world was ending with a flood next month and it must be done immediately so they could climb it.

onthestreet said...

Climb what, the world, the flood, the worker, the prophecy, the following month, or the "IT"?

Ohh, you're talking about climbing hemmorhoids. Yukkkk! You little phaurt, you.

fttc said...

Every time someone disappeared from the work crew none give it a second thought. The work of the leader was greater than any individual. Besides, that is one less to divide the glory of the finished work.

Paladin for Truth said...

JOSEPH SMITH: Millennial Star, Vol 14, Number 38, pages 593-595:

We have heard men who hold the priesthood remark that they would do anything they were told to do by those who preside over them [even] if they knew it was wrong; but such obedience as this is worse than folly to us; it is slavery in the extreme; and the man who would thus willingly degrade himself, should not claim a rank among intelligent beings, until he turns from his folly. A man of God would despise the idea. Others, in the extreme exercise of their almighty authority have taught that such obedience was necessary, and that no matter what the saints were told do by their presidents they should do it without any questions. When Elders of Israel will so far indulge in these extreme notions of obedience as to teach them to the people, it is generally because they have it in their hearts to do wrong themselves.

onthestreet said...

PLAD (9/13/2005 9:24 PM):

Yes, that may be an accurate quote. So when men of the Priesthood were told to reject the prophet by their leaders, why did you fall for it? You had forgotten what Joseph had said here, and also what the Lord Himself said regarding Priesthood leaders (D&C 28):

1 Behold, I say unto thee, Oliver, that it shall be given unto thee that thou shalt be heard by the church in all things whatsoever thou shalt teach them by the Comforter, concerning the revelations and commandments which I have given.

2 But, behold, verily, verily, I say unto thee, no one shall be appointed to receive commandments and revelations in this church excepting my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., for he receiveth them even as Moses.

3 And thou shalt be obedient unto the things which I shall give unto him, even as Aaron, to declare faithfully the commandments and the revelations, with power and authority unto the church.

4 And if thou art led at any time by the Comforter to speak or teach, or at all times by the way of commandment unto the church, thou mayest do it.

5 But thou shalt not write by way of commandment, but by wisdom;

6 And thou shalt NOT COMMAND HIM who is at thy head, and at the head of the church;

7 For I have given him the keys of the mysteries, and the revelations which are sealed, UNTIL I SHALL APPOINT UNTO THEM ANOTHER IN HIS STEAD.

"OBEDIENCE IS THE FIRST LAW OF HEAVEN" (If you can't get past the first law, you can go no further):

The Mormon Church and the limits of obedience: JS taught that obedience is the first law of heaven. TBM's see no paradox there,
assuming that the only way to Intelligence is obedience - even if it's...
www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon115.htm

Booklet > How To Understand the Bible > Second Key: Obedience ...
Another key to understanding the Bible: obedience brings understanding. ...
from the first: A right attitude leads to a proper obedience of God's laws...
www.ucgstp.org/lit/booklets/bible/secondkey.htm

Obedience and Freedom: Obedience is the First Law of Heaven: The gospel of Jesus Christ involves following. It begins and ends with "come, follow me." It goes beyond following...
www.whyprophets.com/prophets/obedience.htm

The point that you are attempting to bring out here is blind obedience, but if you are truly a saint, you would not be blind. The requirement is to have a personal witness and ability to weigh his words with the Word of God, and then to accord with the truth and to obey him with full purpose of heart. Lacking that, you lack both leadership and salvation. You have indulged in the opposite extreme of extreme obedience, which is extreme disobedience, becoming a law unto yourself. Surely, you don't believe that obedience is a false doctrine.

Joseph also said: (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section Five 1842-43, p.237-38):

President Joseph Smith read the 14th chapter of Ezekiel - said the Lord had declared by the Prophet, that the people should each one stand for himself, and depend on no man or men IN THAT STATE OF CORRUPTION of the Jewish church - that righteous persons could only deliver their own souls - APPLIED IT TO THE PRESENT STATE OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS - SAID IF THE PEOPLE DEPARTED FROM THE LORD, THEY MUST FALL - THAT THEY WERE DEPENDING ON THE PROPHET, HENCE WERE DARKENED IN THEIR MINDS, in consequence of neglecting the duties devolving upon themselves, envious towards the innocent, while they afflict the virtuous with their shafts of envy.

Now, this doesn't say to be disobedient, even in the wildest stretch of the imagination. He said: "...in consequence of neglecting the duties devolving upon themselves, envious towards the innocent, while they afflict the virtuous with their shafts of envy", and "In that state of corruption".

fttc said...

Paladin

Keep it up! All we can do is keep putting the truth in front of these people. Street will be his own undoing. Anyone with any sense will see the twisting and turning he is doing to justify himself. It is the same logic so many of the warrenites have. We can only hope some of them will see streets defense and realize how foolish it really is.

fttc said...

Back to the topic.

Building the tower was more important than any family functions and responsibilties. Wives and children were even used for the labor instead of being allowed to make a home and have normal family functions.

Anonymous said...

The historically important thing about the Tower of Babel was that Jared and his brother left.

ATAR_i said...

Just had a new idea. when OTS starts to 'go off' we can call it.....

A shower of babel

fttc said...

Yeah, his posts are like showers spewn forth from the mother hurricane of babel called warren.

onthestreet said...

Ahh yes! Showers indeed. Showers refresh the land or those who will, while draught brings on its demise. The "Mother Hurricane" is indeed that man who represents God. His Word is like a two-edged sword.

fttc said...

Get out your umbrella. Here he comes babbling all the way!

Anonymous said...

IGNORE STREET, IGNORE STREET

IGNORE WHO, IGNORE WHO?

Anonymous said...

The people quit talking to outsiders and each other, and when inconsistencies happened, each person explained it away differently. Pretty soon, they lost the ability to reason and communicate. Several generations later, this evolved into different languages.

mugwump said...

ots

Changest thy name from on-the street to he that maketh no sense and demonstrateth no wisdom.

Anonymous said...

Archeologists and historians are undecided at this moment as to whether Prozac and other mind-altering drugs were used to help control the people.

onthestreet said...

You are correct again: You are all "undecided", as you put it, and screach about one's name. Your own confusion has created your Babelon.

As for a pure people: "I teach them correct principles, and they control or govern themselves".

Anonymous said...

correct spelling of babelon is Babylon, an ancient city that was located on the Euphrates River in current Iraq, south of what was Nineveh, the current city of Mosul.

onthestreet said...

And Mosul permuted is Slum, or M-soul (M being mem). Thanks for the spelling lesson. I learn alot from you people, wherever truth is found.

mugwump said...

Thanks, but i really didn't care.

fttc said...

Street: permeated with permutions to erradicate the obvious.

onthestreet said...

MUG, you don't care? Ahh, that's the whole differnce between faithful and faithless, truth and error, hope and the hopeless. If you care, you can achieve anything. If you don't care, you can achieve nothing.

Now, you may care for some things, and not care for others. But when you don't care about the very Word of God, and His dealings with mankind, how he has turned the Babylon of the past into a slum or worse, a pile of rubble, how he removed many souls from the earth, and now how he is doing the same right here in America, destroying ElPaso, destroying New Orleans, right there in your own back yard, and bringing hundreds of destructions upon the nations of the world, you can see that the consumption decreed is transpiring before your very eyes.

If you don't care, there is nothing you will do about it.

Luke 17: 26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

onthestreet said...

Make that Galveston. It was destroyed, and about 7,000 people died, and that was 1900, so it's been going on now for quite awhile now, the Lord pleading with his children, so that perchance he won't have to destroy them.

Increase in Hurricanes: (http://www.konig.org/wc79.htm

In Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 - Jesus is telling the apostles of the oncoming Tribulations of the latter days. He tells of an increase in wars, earthquakes and famines. He also tells of "nations being in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides." (Luke 21:25) On a recent Hal Lindsey broadcast - Mr. Lindsey talks about the increase in Hurricanes, that fits in with the latter days predictions. The following facts on Hurricanes are from Mr. Lindseys broadcast.

mugwump said...

If your bunch was THE people, why weren't you in Galveston in 1900? Why weren't YOU on the lower Mississippi or Alabaman costs to suffer the latest hurricaine.

YOu say that these natural disasters are judgements. That may be so, but, If you and your people are "His people", why weren't YOU in the middle of the storm?

American benevolence is being demonstrated in the Gulf disaster zone. People have died, infrastructure has been ruined, people have been separated from family. Texas, especially the city of Houston, opened their arms in charity and love to those who were most needy.

What is your excuse for making use of these same funds, payed for by the taxpayer, when there are so many who have genuine need. The Hildale/Colorado City area has more welefare claimes per capita than any other section of the country. What are you doing to tighten your belts in aid to the huricane victims.

Do you think that because the vast majority of the homeless and helpless are black that the only received judgement?

I can't wait to hear your lopsided enlightment bloviated in regard to this post.

Faithful Woman said...

Galveston is a pritty little island with a much greater population now than when it was washed over in 1900.

onthestreet said...

MUGGY AGAIN (9/16/2005 9:55 AM): Wherever people face a storm, our hearts are there for them. But why would God's people tempt God, and jump into a storm. Satan does that, and some of his agents, suggesting that Christ throw himself off the temple spire, and he replied: "It is written, thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God".

As for using funds for the needy, that's been going on since the government has had programs, and it is nation-wide. So your continued attempts to hit below the belt continue to turn on you like a boomerang, and cuts you off at the pass.

Those dear people who face storms, like the FLDS have faced storms, deserve our support, especially when it has been the government itself who has flubbed up in storming our communities, and then suffering political suicide as a result. So our hearts go out to people who suffer. Christ would gather them under His wing as a hen...BUT THEY WOULD NOT. Even the black brothers and sisters will be gathered.

Faithful Woman said...

Being gathered to God is NOT being to warren.

This Black Girl will NEVER gather to warren.

mugwump said...

faithful:

The estimated loss of life in 1900 was 10,000 dead. Pretty severe if you ask me. I imagine the severity would be determined largely by whether you survived or not.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ots????????do you think those people in south Lousiana "jumped" into the storm? It was by the grace of God that the death toll hasn't been even higher.

Jeffs and his cronies are in flight, not the rank and file from CC/hild. Jeffs, if he's still around probably has built himself a mountaintop hideaway in New Zeland, or some such out-of-the-way place. He's not likely to surrender to the law. He is too big a coward! It was HE who wasted FLDS money. It ws HE who was found, by default, libel for damages for his participation in sodomy. What a sterling character!!!!! Why do I say such TERRIBLE things about your lord & master? It's a cinch you will never fess up.

onthestreet said...

Well, go to God about it, and see what sign he may give you, since you seek for some evidence or sign. You're right, the Prophet will never lie (what you call "fess up").

mugwump said...

fess up - confess

Since both you and WJ seem to be voices of God, I guess you would need to confess to yourselves, or each other. No other mortal could stand before your much blovicated self-esteem.

Old saying: buy 'em for what they are worth, sell 'em for what THEY think there worth, emass a fortune.

Anonymous said...

During the construction of the tower of babel, street and mugwump argued so much that they soon began talking another language.

mugwump said...

invention of new language somehow makes babel more intelligent, don't you think? Lighten up!

quiet canadian said...

Isn't it strange? So many of the good faithful followers will declare that they would do any thing to keep their Prophet out of prison, and safe from harm. To bad their Prophet won't do the same for his followers.
I think at the time of the Tower of Babel the language of the people was changed alot by their leaders. As in the current times alot of the people have to speak in codes to prevent information from leaking out as to what they are doing. Like when the Warren followers were first asked about the YFZ ranch, it was called a hunting retreat, which was actually interpreted to mean, a secluded retreat for the most loyal followers of Warren Jeffs.

onthestreet said...

It is a hunting retreat. No greater truth was ever told, in the hunting and proving of souls, and a retreat from the world.

Anonymous said...

Mugsy-boy~
It seems that it isn't so funny when the affront is directed at your little self.....(I'm refering to your reply to 5:40)

Pardon my noticing, but it seems that you feel a bit chagrined when the discomfiture is directed at you. Why, then, would you not see that you are inflicting this same indignity on another human being?

AS a true follower of Christ, you are surely familiar with his teachings wherein he admonishes us to love everyone, even love your enemies, and those who do evil. We are not called to be another's judge, but to forgive all men, and leave judgement to God. And if you are truly living as you say you believe, you are praying to God for mercy for these people. Can a true follower of Christ really join in an altercation like these in a spirit of love and forgiveness?

To truly love Christ, you must emulate him.

mugwump said...

ots of the night re. 1:47

I learn best by example. I've not seen street exhibit any example that I want to emulate.

Regarding the chagrin angle: It all depends upon which way the "tease" is directed. If at street he replys in his own way, if at me I reserve the right to do the same. You don't have to follow my example, and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want to. I know for a fact that i haven't seen anything demonstrated by the many faces of ots that inspire me to anything but disgust. I don't fear. What has street opined that would cause me to go searching for asbestos underwear. Why should I hold anything the guy says as being true, just, fair, scriptural, doctrinally sound,or an affirmation of faith?

To quote from one line taken from Hamlet's instructions to the players: -- it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

onthestreet said...

Ahh, now you are quoting tragedies, in preference to scripture. What a tragedy, my friend. I love you Mugs. Why? "Love thine enemies". I love you so, that I would continue to point out things that you need to know when you flub up, which is daily. "The Lord loves those whom he chasteneth", by whatever means. I know you love me too, being one who professes to be a Christian. In fact, the word you used in relation to me was "fun", fun to bait, etc. I know others have used similar terms.

mugwump said...

ots

If you want to observe a tragedy at work look in the mirror.

onthestreet said...

Yes, I see many tragedies about to transpire from the urim of the mind from which fire proceedeth.

Anonymous said...

Street you can see jack.

onthestreet said...

Yes I can. Good observation.

Anonymous said...

Hey, lets buy Street a whip of nine cattails and he can whip himself daily and set a good example.

Anonymous said...

how about a cat-o-nine tails

onthestreet said...

Naaah, just a scepter with nine wives (or would that be lives)? Women are NOT to be whipped, or made to fret whatsoever, but given the highest protection from DOGS without, and dignity, and glory. This is what the Prophet does, and what the Lord does for His Bride, the Church.

Anonymous said...

give streetie an enema and ship him to warren in a snuff tin.

Anonymous said...

well, you know we can have Warren administer the enema. That's what his faithful are saying about the whole Brent/Blaine Jeffs thing. It wasn't rape, Warren was just "helping" the poor constipated lad out

Anonymous said...

are you a woman, streetie? I believe the whip, was for you to use upon yourself.

onthestreet said...

Yes, self-discipline is good, as long as it's not self-abuse.

Anonymous said...

street's bile might be a good fluid to give warren an enema. Street has become his own most hoy individual therfore all body fluids from him should clean up about any problem. Add it is the substance you add to water used in your pressure pump. Just think, you will be able to wash all the paint from walls, clean all the driveways of greese, clean away any stains left on your sidewalks but best of all, it could cleanse warren of so much contained anger and waste matter that his size might be reduced small enough to fit the snuff can.

onthestreet said...

YES, THE LORD IS SWEEPING THE LAND WITH A BESOM OF DESTRUCTION:

Isa 14:
20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

22 For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.

23 I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts.

Anonymous said...

LET'S SAY IT AGAIN OK? EVERYBODY TOGETHER "OH SHUT UP STREET"!

Anonymous said...

confusion, nothing but.

onthestreet said...

YES, THAT IS THE POINT: THAT IS PART OF HIS BESOM OR DESTRUCTION, WHAT YOU CALL "NOTHING BUT CONFUSION", IF THE LIGHT IN YOU IS DESTROYED.

Anonymous said...

your folks left before your light got lit. you am in the darkness man.

onthestreet said...

SEE! NOT MAKE WITH HANDS, BUT "MADE WITHOUT HANDS", OR BY THE HAND OF GOD. YES, HE IS IN THE LIGHT, AND THE DARKNESS, IN THE HEIGHTS, AND THE DEPTHS, IN THE AIR AND THE WATER, IN THE FIRE AND THE ETHER, IN THE HEAVENS AND IN THE EARTH. MY CHILD, YOU CANNOT ESCAPE HIM.

Anonymous said...

yeah man but you god can't even find the lite switch. he a lie.