Tuesday, September 13, 2005

The Articles of FLDS Faith

The Revised Articles of Faith (or Fear) for the FLDS.

We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and Warren Jeffs and in the Holy Ghost.

We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and right now is a good time to punish them, not for Adam's transgression.

We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, a few select may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Warren Jeffs; second, NO Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof. And WJ can give the authority for himself to call him a prophet and then cut off the ones that called him to be a prophet.

We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth. We believe it but don't live it.

We believe in the gifts of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth. (but only to the prophet Warren Jeffs)

We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. (but we don't read them or apply them, we are too busy reading the current prophets revelations)

We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God. (this is the important one, the destructions are comming, the destructions are comming)

We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory. (And it will start in Texas and only the FLDS that are "good" will be lifted up while the destructions happen)

We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. (so leave us alone)

We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law. (We don't believe this anymore)

We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to only the FLDS, we can steal and cheat if it is for the kingdom of GOD; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul -- We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. (this is just another indurance test) If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

We believe that God has called us to come out of the world, and money is bad, so hand over your donations, so that the prophet can isolate himself from the wickedness of this generation.

(My interpetation of the original Articles of Faith presented by Joseph Smith, and the FLDS say that Warren Jeffs hasn't changed anything.)


Anonymous said...

I am glad to hear how all their mumpo jumbo has been justified these many years... Thanks for the insight...

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

sic 'em rumor.

Anonymous said...

ha ha thats too funny!

Anonymous said...

loved it. good one!

fttc said...

Which volume of warren's sermons is that in? It has to be a direct quote!

Anonymous said...

Use every piece of God's armor to resist the enemy in the time of evil, so that after the battle you will still be standing firm. Stand your ground, putting on the sturdy belt of truth and the body armor of God's righteousness. For shoes, put on the peace that comes from the Good News, so that you will be fully prepared. In every battle you will need faith as your shield to stop the fiery arrows aimed at you by Satan. Put on salvation as your helmet, and take the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. Pray at all times and on every occasion in the power of the Holy Spirit. Stay alert and be persistent in your prayers for all Christians everywhere.

Anonymous said...

God, Warren, Jesus in the same sentence. You forgot the Buddha, Mohammad, and Rev. Moon, also Mickey Mouse, Darth Vader and most of all “Santa Clause". Give me a break. I bet you also believe Iraq has nuclear arms and weapons of mass destruction or Halliburton has no influence on the Bush administration.

ATAR_i said...

Nice job RHI

mugwump said...


Thy paranthetic phrases doeth delight the mind of those who seeketh wisdom.

Anonymous said...

This dispensation belongs to Joseph Smith, NOT Warren Jeffs! I feel that these articles are a good illustration of how a wicked man can lead people astray. I say again, Warren Jeffs has just as much power as his people give him. If they will wake up and smell the coffee, they will realize that they have been duped. I fervently pray that they will wake up soon before it is too late. Warren does not care about anyone but his own feelings, and his own agenda. Please people, wake up! Do your own thinking! Go to God and ask him in Jesus' name, not in Warren's name! If you do, you will find the truth, and just maybe you can escape the tyranny of King Jeffs!

onthestreet said...

RUMOR: Those articles of YOURS are just perverted RUMOR, YOUR RUMOR, your character, intent, propagandizing, your wicked and libelous imaginations against a very descent people at YFZ. I can see that many sniveling juveniles delight in your drueling.

NONNY (9/14/2005 2:15 PM): You're right. This dispensation does belong to Joseph, with every generation since 1,000 AD. Now, we all know that is scriptural, for each day of creation or dispensation is a thousand years. Then, the true prophets of those generations also belong to him, as the holders of the eternal keys of power over their distinct generations. You may know them by their fruits (bringing forth children and a united people, pruning the tree, casting out much evil, and "possessing no honor in his own country").

You are also right about these articles, how a wicked man like Rumor can lead gullible people astray. The Prophet Warren has the power that God gives him, and the people only have that power that Warren bestows upon those are are truly worthy of such power with the Lord, not worldly power. You are the ones who have truly been DUPED, and for you it is already too late. If you don't care more than that about yourself, how can anyone else care for you?

Anonymous said...

There, there (patting each other on the back) we're not really as bad as these people say now are we. We'll just keep denying these things are being done and maybe they will go away. Maybe if we put on a good show warren won't adjust us any further. Maybe we can keep our families for a while longer. It's not doubt now is it? We must keep sweet and have faith. There, (with a big hug) carry on now, don't let these evil people with their assessment of our situation distract you.

fttc said...

From what I can see I think Rumor learned these from Street. I wonder why he has a problem with them. Maybe Anon 6:53 is visionary.

onthestreet said...

Ohh, no show will stop the adjustments until the adjustments are all DONE, be assured.

There now, a pat on your diaper should soothe the whimpering, and a little bubbly blow on your tummy.

Anonymous said...







Anonymous said...

he doesn't have the answer because he really can't comprehend the question

rumor-has-it said...


I care more about myself than I do about the so called prophet and I realize FREEDOM is calling.

God doesn't just talk to Warren Jeffs, he is within every heart and no one else can make the best decisions for you,

(esp Warren Jeffs, he can kick you out just on rumors)

onthestreet said...

The question is not "when" you repent, but "IF". The Lord knows when that is the case, with each individual case, and reveals it to his Prophet. A mocking spirit never will approach unto repentance, not even close. This is why there is often no need to even answer you.

RUMOR: You got that part right, caring more about yourself than others. Also, right again about the spirit striving with ALL people. But you forgot the Word of God: "The Spirit of God shall NOT always strive with man".

Then again, you FORGOT the Word of God about decisions: Your Redeemer said it best: "THY WILL, Father, NOT mine".

You forget alot. Therefore, the Spirit shall not always strive with you. If rumors got you cut of, there had to be truth to it. What is right before the Lord CANNOT be removed. It would be like trying to remove the Sun. Can't be done. Yet, heaven and earth shall pass away. The Prophet was only obeying the Word of God:
"Whatever offends thee, cut it off".

onthestreet said...

This thread is not Articles of Faith at all, but Articles of Faithless.

fttc said...

Street, I think that was Rumors point. The FLDS ARE faithless thanks to a man they chose to worship in place of God.

Anonymous said...

True fttc, the FLDS are now a non-prophet for profit organization.

rumor-has-it said...

Throughout the years we (FLDS) have heard the maxim "Perfect Obedience produces Perfect Faith". We would help the little children say it in Sunday School.

I say "Perfect Obedience to a wayward prophet makes Perfect Slaves"

rumor-has-it said...

By the way I didn't get kicked out on rumors, I walked away.

People that get kicked out act and sound just like you. They worship the ground Warren Jeffs walks on and realize there is no forgiveness but somehow they might just beat the odds. They think that by being on Warren Jeffs side and protecting him and standing up for him will somehow make the wrongs right. Their wrongs and His wrongs.

Anonymous said...

Lucretius the poet, when he beheld the act of Agamemnon, that could endure the sacrificing of his own daughter, exclaimed:

"Tantum Religio pontuit suadere malorum"

{to what evil deeds religion urges men}

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Isaiah 5:20.. read on..

Anonymous said...

Hey Rumor-has-it:
I sent my email adress to the blog administrator to send on to you so I could contact you but I guess he hasn't done it. If I post my email address here would you contact me?
--a friend

onthestreet said...

fttc said... Street, I think that was Rumors point. The FLDS ARE faithless thanks to a man they chose to worship in place of God.
9/15/2005 9:02 AM

STREET'S Reply: Faithless? What is faith? It is the assurance of things hoped for, the knowledge of things not seen,IN PLACE OF GOD, to represent God, or God with us. Especially in the face of rejection and ridicule. So our continuing in assurance and knowledge while not seeing God, and now not even seeing the Prophet or God with us, all the while being rejected and ridiculed, this is the very definition of Faith.

See, the FLDS people themselves are the very definition of faith, or faith personified, just at God himself is every true attribute and every good thing PERSONIFIED in His very person and existence.

So, The FLDS ARE NOT faithless, but faithFUL, thanks to a man they chose to honor as his representative, but not worship, in place of God. We still pray, sing, work, bring forth seed, strive to apply all his attributes, and sacrifice all things to that one God, Michael, the Father of us all. That is FAITHFUL worship in action, in all that we do continually, not just a Sunday worship. Who else on the earth is achieving that?

WHO ELSE ON THE EARTH IS ACHIEVING THAT, A LIVING FAITH, not just a faith of dialog and Sunday show.

weblog administrator said...

To Anon 5:15

Your email address was forwarded as per your request. That's all I can do. Sorry if you've had no response.

Weblog Admin

fttc said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
fttc said...


You have learned well from your master. He is expert at tweaking the scriptures to match his own ideas.

"Faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE of things not seen."

You exchange the word knowledge for evidence and then deduce that since you and others have "knowledge" that warren is a prophet it proves you have faith. Let's put in the proper word and see the evidence that he is a prophet. Have his prophecies come true? There is another thread dedicated to this and the answer is no. Where is the evidence of warren recieving authority? We have a chain of authority we can trace for other prophets, they have not made it a great secret. Why has he? The lack of evidence shows that you cannot have faith in this man by your own methods of logic.

BTW knowledge is the end of faith not the beginning.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Blog Admin.

onthestreet said...

Substance is both assurance and evidence, because you can see it. Faith is also the assurance and knowledge of things hoped for and not seen. Who said I quoted a scripture? Yet, if it is true, it IS scripture, tweeked or not.

There you go again, straining at a gnat, and swollowing a camel. That is one huge steak for you to be eating at one meal. You must look very, very pregnant, yes? But with what, camel's hair?

onthestreet said...

9/15/2005 9:18 PM

One more thing, kiddo: You say: “Let’s see the evidence”, forgetting that “FAITH IS THE EVIDENCE”, not knowing how ALL of his prophecies come true. How about “the evidence of him receiving authority”, as you put it. How so, by God or someone unseen coming down and somehow proving it to you. “FAITH IS THE EVIDENCE”.

Now, what greater evidence of a church’s faith (and thus their prophetic truth and authority) than to suffer the hatred and stalking and dishonor, every insult and charge that man can throw at a people, and yet they will noit budge, but remain faithful still to their beliefs and the commandments of God to them. You may not believe it, but then that just shows your unbelief. Having been caught in crimes against the community, and cast out, this is the basis of your warring against yourself.

Now, the Prophet’s “chain of authority” as you put it, is fairly simple to trace. Now listen carefully, because this is very extensive and involved. It goes all the way back from him, to his father, to his Father, three persons, and a whole lot more betwixt the latter two. Did you follow it? Or did it just piss you off, being like a dog outside of the walls of the city? By the way, do you have a chain? Don’t hang yourself with it. Who is your prophet. If you are without leadership, you are like a ship without a rudder. Then where will you end up, my friend? (Hey, dog is man’s best friend).

I liked what you ended with:
“Knowledge is the end of faith”. Very good. It is the terminal point on the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, resolving all the other attributes of faith into one trinity, the upper face, which is the Grace, the Wisdom, and the Understanding. Do you understand it?

fttc said...

Your arguments come from a false premise. Your foundation is not even as solid as the sand in the parable. It is built on castles in the air which fall without even the rain to wash them away. They collapse as soon as the the dreams in your head cease.

onthestreet said...

Okay, you have spewn forth, now how is that so?

mugwump said...

nice sermon, if it just made some point

onthestreet said...

fttc (9/16/2005 10:39 AM): Ahh, a foundation of "castles". That is pretty solid, and "not washed away by the rain". These are great acknowledgements, and since dreams are eternal, the castles never collapse.
Like I said: I liked what you ended with: “Knowledge is the "end" of faith”, but faith never ends. It is the terminal point on the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, but it resolves back into the Tree of Life with all the other attributes of faith, into the upper face of God, the Trinity. These three men represent Grace, Wisdom, and Understanding. So when Uncle Roy ended many of his sermons with the prayer that "God bless us with Wisdom, Knowledge, and Understanding", he was invoking far more upon the worth than the unworthy will ever know. He was transitioning them into a perfect resolution with heaven. In the Knowledge of Good and Evil we decend the Tree of Life, while in the Knowledge that we please God in all things we ascend. So Knowledge is the link and the abyss between the upper and lower faces or heavens.

How about you, Muggy. Are you still as muggy as you can be?

Anonymous said...

from the Book of Warren

And in that day Satan came and said “Have you considered my servants? They are at peace and their families are united. They have given all they had in the building up of the Kingdom and the United Effort Plan.” Then Warren answered him saying “Nay, I know that they are sinners for the Lord has nibbled on my ear and whispered that they do err in some fashion even if they, nor I know what their sin might be.”

But Satan came again and said “What about their families? Their wives love them and they have kept their covenants and been faithful all their lives. Their daughters are faithful mothers and their sons number in the hundreds with hardly a dissenter among them. Their boys are tradesmen, teachers, professionals, and family men themselves. And Warren said “Nay, again I say that their families have misplaced loyalties because they do honor their fathers and their mothers and for this they think that their days should be long upon this land which the Lord their God hath given them.”

And came Satan a third time saying “These faithful Patriarchs have been unwaivering in their teachings and have ever voiced support for you and have proclaimed that their families should support you even to the extent of being denied, cast out, and disowned themselves. They have stood faithfully by while their wives were wedded to other men and watched while their sons have changed their names to destroy all evidence that they themselves have ever existed. And Warren then said to Satan “Ah ha! There is proof that they are ‘master deceivers’ as I have named them for they knew, I knew and God knows that they taught against their better judgment and said things were so which they knew were not so.” Now, get thee behind me Satan!”

And Satan said “ I have been behind thee all the way.”

mugwump said...


your rambling has lost none of it's irrevelency, you still bloviate.

onthestreet said...

If that is what it is to you, GREAT! It proves where people stand and fall. Mission Accomplished.

onthestreet said...

MUG (9/18/2005 2:25 PM):

Like I said in the other thread (Where are they now?):

Boy, you do ramble, don't you, and especially on a thread where people have specifically and gracefully requested some restraint for the sake of the purpose of the thread. Not someday. Now! I for one could follow up your entire ramblings, like I usually do, but I CAN SEE that this is not the place. So I will remove it here and now, to a more appropriat place. Shall we say: "ARTICLES OF FAITH"? That thread only has 40 Posts, and since this post of Mug's relates to our faith, in book-form, I will repost the Mug's entire post there, and then reply.

mugwump said...
I still believe in freedom of speech. I will continue to exercise that right here. Anyone who reads this blog faithfully knows that I don't take any blogna from street. I realize that he, in all probability has some mental problems, and if not that at least serious psycholological problems i.e., problems with personal identity, and a need to justify himself no matter how costly doing so might affect the well being of others who are seeking information and/or enlightment from this site.

It is very obvious that ots thinks that only he has a right to dictate to you and to me as how we should believe and live our lives. I'll share my testimony occasionally, because I feel it is my privledge to do so, but in no way do I feel threatened by street's harangue. Puzzled? Yes. Threatened? No. If my Lord could die for my sin, why shouldn't I live for Him?

You well know that street & I widely differ on doctrine. He professes to be FLDS, (I think?). I am a born again Christian. I confess I don't understand half the stuff he posts, but suspect that his purpose in continuing to find fault with everyone else stems from his low self esteem and in an attempt to make someone, whom he deems superior to himself, (WJ?) think that he is very intelligent. He may be, but using termnology not understood by the common man does not serve any purpose on this blog. Perhaps that alone is his purpose. Gross confusion. I am curious about the inner workings of the FLDS mindset. I don't know if street's incompetence is shared with the group as a whole.

Can someone, say fttc, merycia, or ogre give me a clue as to where street's off-the-wall attempts to teach come from? What is the supportive material for his bizarre take on life based upon? I know he constantly makes reference to .com's, but I don't have the time nor the inclination to spend my whole day trying to decipher anything that at best is only vagely relevant.

I am native to central west Texas. We haven't had many mormons of any description come into our towns until very recently. The missionaries look to be clean cut, fine young men but, we have discovered that the purpose for knocking on our doors is to prosolyte. I don't find them as obnoxious as Jehovah's Witnesses, but I spend enough time presenting my case here. I am not about to change my mind so they are wasting their time and mine as well.

Mormons seem to be having some success in San Angelo. The FLDS has caused us who are native to this area to place a blanket of protection over Schliecher County and the towns with which me most associate. The activities of YFZ and Warren Jeffs are of great interest. Mormons of any group are not especially welcome here because of the false publicity related to the organization and establishment of YFZ and the secrecy that continues to surround that compound. My purpose here is not to lay blame, but to seek understanding. 9/18/2005 2:25 PM


onthestreet said...

MUGGY (9/18/2005 2:25 PM):

Let's take it paragraph by paragraph:

1. First of all, WHO DOESN'T (believe in freedom of speech). Abusing that freedom isn't the way to exercise it. Post it here, will you? As for eating bologna, you haven't been ingesting it, you've been choking on it. Don't die on me now; you're too much fun. Just because you choke on alot of what I say and can't hardly handle it, does't mean anyone has a mental problem except maybe yourself. You say: "If not mental problems, then at least psychological". See how incoherent and mentally ill that is. Let me give you a precise definition: "PSYCHOLOGY: STUDY OF THE MIND". They are one thing. Just because you cannot identify many things doesn't mean others are the ones with "problems of personal identity", as you charge. Psychologists refer to this as denial and self-defensive mechanisms, applying ones own very personal problems to everyone except themselves.

2. Juveniles are the ones who complain about the reasonings of adults, and accuse them of
"dictating to you and to me as how we should believe and live our lives". That's a direct quote from you, in your second paragraph. Muggy, how old are you? Just wondering if you are still a teenager. Children get puzzled over many things, and YOU DO CONFESS here and now to being

3. You CONFESS to being "born again". I was born into the true Christianity at conception. What took you so long? Yet you further confess: "I don't understand". The Prophet knows the level of everyone's intelligence, through the Spirt of God, and he detects you and me every day. If there is any intelligence or truth anywhere,
"we seek after these things". In this one paragraph alone, you have managed to CONFESS to confusion over my being "FLDS (I think?)", and "I confess I don't understand"
and "He may be (very intelligent)" and "Using terminology not understood", and "Gross Confusion", and "I am curious about the inner workings". Then you finish up your proof of gross incompetence with juvenile denial by stating: "I don't know if street's incompetence is shared with the group as a whole". See how incoherent and senseless. If you have any friends, they just have to be scratching their heads with a claw hammer.

4. Then you start the next paragraph: "Can someone... give me a clue". Who leads you, Muggy, and who do you lead? I will tell you. The blind leading the blind.

Anonymous said...

Ohhhhhhh,but DAMN! You're So Funny, Street!

I am so totally amused by this little duel!

.......Touche....shall we say, eh, Mugsy, ol'boy?

Carry on, boys! A bit of sport to liven up this otherwise bald and uninteresting narrative!

I'm off to me bed, now....Wake me when the old chap comes 'round....

mugwump said...

I stand amused in your presence street. I have come to determine that you have no more understanding of grace, faith, good works, joy, peace, salvation, redemption, the tenants of Christian Life.

Your superfluous adjectives describing my shortcomings reminds me of Paul's Letter to the Romans.
Paul had in Chapter 1 adressed the sins of Gentile mankind. In Chapter 2 he directs his attention to the Jews, their obedience to the law, how they will be judged in relationship to how they have judged the world, from their own eyes. He addressed the jews first because they were the first to have experienced the joys and recognition of the Living God. The should be the first held accountable in judgement also.

Secondly he addressed the gentiles and explained that they too would be judged in accordance with the judgements they pronounced upon those not of the "faith". Paul goes into the idea related to circumcision, the covenant act performed upon male children born to Hebrew parents. This "work" was the one thing that the Jews were especially proud of in their life. They believed that those of circumcision, themselves, were the only people on earth with an inside track to attract Righteous God.

Paul, a Jew of the Jews, a pharisee, circumcised upon the eighth day, instructed as a Rabbi
could boast that he was as good as any of them, if their estimation of themselves was the criteria of judgement before God.

Paul went on to claim that this act, was not demanded of gentiles. The Judizers became livid. Paul then claimed that it was not the outward act of circumcision that made man wholly acceptable to God, it was a change in the inner man, or as he stated "circumcision of the heart." Did Paul suggest that every gentile should have their breast opened, the heart seized and the sac in which it lives be cut away? No! It is the internal man, not the external man that God judges. God looks at the condition of man's heart in relationship to acceptance of the perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ on Calvary's Cross, as the price that God paid for my redemption as well as yours.

Rant on. I would ask that you read each of the Articles of Faith listed in this thread. Please note that there are paranthetical phrases added by the author, rumor-has-it. Rumor has simply stated that the practice does not meet the standard.

My hope is built upon Jesus and not upon some device or creed developed by mankind. God is my judge and witness.

Me thinks that King Street I doth give himself praise as anonymous in 9/19 1:15 AM. He is enjoying a nocturnal emission, and expressing such a state of self elation with his pathetic cleverness.

mugwump said...

Being born into true Christianity, my what a boast.

See John's Gospel, chapter 3. I doubt that reading it will do you any good because you can't get over the part about "born of water" and "born of the Spirit"

I was born some time back, thank you very much. That birth was physical. About ten years later I understood that I was a sinner, at that time not saved, knowledgable, but not saved.

Understanding my status, at this, my age of accountability, I began questioning my parents as to how I could know that I was indeed a child of God, an inheritor of His grace. When I had my questions answered I called upon the name of the Lord for my salvation. It was then, and only then, that i experienced the new birth or was born again.

By your statement concerning your having been born into True Christianity at conception. By following that logic it would appear that If you had been concieved on the showroom floor of the local Ford dealership, you would have been born an automobile.

I am not now, nor have I ever demonstrated that my denomination, or lack thereof, had anything to do with my salvation, or my assurance of Heaven. I didn't put up the guarantee, God Did, IN LOVE, and I claim it as my own. It was my choice to believe or not. I chose to believe. Becoming a believer is not an exclusive club. Membership is open to all who humble themselves and follow the King.

onthestreet said...

Why don't you give people the actual words the Prophets spoke,so they can see what they actually said, instead of spinning them into your own interpretation. Interpretations are interesting if we put them side by side, so people can see how accurate they are, or how fallacious. All you do is ignore the actual scriptures, sometimes with a laundry-list of references. Let people see what the scriptures say. What are you afraid of?

onthestreet said...

You proclaim: "Becoming a believer is not an exclusive club. Membership is open to all who humble themselves and follow the King. (9/19/2005 12:23 PM).

Bud, you don't know the order of Heaven. The Lord Himself said "Few there be that find it". THAT IS EXCLUSIVE. Yes, ALL MAY accept it, but they don't. So you again call your Lord a liar.

He also revealed to the Prophet that "Satan shall DECEIVE THE WHOLE WORLD". Then along comes the Muggy one and says: They Lie. If the whole world is deceived, then the saints are "a very exclusive club".

You say you chose to believe, then you disbelieve and call it a lie. The Gospel is to all men, "but few there be that find it", who actually humble themselves sufficiently to sacrifice all things as He requires, and to follow him, through His anointed, also as Christ stated it, coming to know by their fruits. Few indeed can humble themselve so much as to do that.

onthestreet said...

You're right in saying that the availability of the Gospel is not exclusive to a few, for "The Gospel is unto all men", and God is no respector of persons".

But you said: ""Becoming a believer is not an exclusive club". FEW become believers, so that is VERY EXCLUSIVE, see? And that is in precise accordance with the Word of God.

mugwump said...

"Bud": ots

You and your "Order of the Kingdom" are the delusion of a deranged mind. Just who are YOU to declare the "Order of Heaven?"

If you proclaim that you have received revelation from God through the 'prophet', you lie.

Show me the place in the REAL scripture where JS, WJ or ots set the order. If you were less interested in the order of things maybe you could spend time learning the Jesus of the Bible and not some 'dreamed up' declaration of importance.

Don't you get it? I don't care if I'm not the first in line. Who I am is of no importance. Its the Great I AM whom is to receive honor glory and praise. Nothing else nor anyone else matters. HE is GOD, I am His creation. HE IS my heavenly father, not some cosmic figure sitting around looking for some other female he can impregnate.

Place your hope in the promise of man you wind up with a sack full of unanswered prayers and pronouncements that add up to -0-.

It is you who have gone off the deep end. If Joseph Smith or Warren Jeffs is NOT the "prophet" you speak of, you are the one deceived by Satan incarnate, in the form of both the two men named at the beginning of this sentence. But IF, and I repeat IF, your prophets prove true then according to your own teachings I too will gain a lesser heaven.

If I am right there is no heaven for you at all. The only other place of eternity is HELL. That thought might cause you to think twice before declaring my Christ and HIS followers frauds.

Acts 4:10-12 (KJV)

Be it known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Not by prophet, priest or king.


That is pretty exclusive as to the obtaining of salvation.

Pray to Joe, Warren, Brigham or any other MAN. The cannot answer your prayer.


I didn't see any "scripture" in your last post. Do you somehow think that I have to defend my position? Nay, I have the assurance of Christ, living within me. You will never understand because you have fallen into the trap of believing that you hold your eternal destiny in your own hands. You trust in YOURSELF, not in the saving Power of the "Only Name Under heaven."

onthestreet said...

Hey mug, got you going, yes? Look at you! Okay, let's look yaover. The Order of Heaven is no dulusion. Who are you to deny it? You say: If you proclaim that you have received revelation from God through the 'prophet', you lie. How is ANY claim of revelation, through ANY means, a lie? We receive revelation daily. The sun comes up and REVEALS the world. So WHO LIES? A man REVEALS something to you that you never knew before, so how is that a lie. Do you see the lies coming from yourself? I hope so, because surely others do as well.

Now, you ask my help: "Show me the place in the REAL scripture where JS, WJ or ots set the order.You've got it backwards. We, you, ALL MEN, have the privilege of FULFILLING the Order of God in our lives, but we don't set it. God has set up His Order upon the earth. If you were MORE interested in His Order, then maybe you could KNOW Jesus personally, person to person, for that is the testimony required, a personal witness of His presence, and not some
"dreamed up declaration of importance", as you put it, in stating: "I have the assurance of Christ". What you have, my friend, is a paper book with words on it, and these words are assurances to those "few who find it", as that man Jesus said Himself. Do you really think that by proclaiming your belief, that you are accepted of Him. He Himself said this (Mt. 7:20):

"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but HE THAT DOETH the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."

There it is: "By their fruits",
"He that doeth", etc. What are your fruits? How have you fulfilled His will? He commanded men to "Be fruitful", and to "Let the little children come", and
"Look not after a woman to lust after her". All this, the FLDS fulfills, even to the point of casting off half the congregation for lusting after women and other crimes. Do you have sex with your wife. Then you are NOT "he that doeth the will of the Father", for you lust after her. The Lord just said: "That is Adultery. So what are your fruits. Have you fulfilled His will? I'll just close with this: Yes, Christ is the ONLY NAME under heaven by which we may come unto Him, and where is His name? From this and other scripture which I will provide, everyone can see that HIS NAME MUST BE UPON AN ELECT FEW.

Isa.65:1: "Behold me, unto A NATION that was NOT CALLED BY MY NAME. I have spread out my hands all the day unto A REBELLIOUS PEOPLE, which walketh in a way that was not good, AFTER THEIR OWN THOUGHTS". The FLDS is daily accused of NOT walking "after their own thoughts", but rather following the thoughts and the will of the Lord and His anointed.

2 Chron. 7:14: "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Isaiah 42:1: "Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles". This is well known as "a gentile nation", and do you think that His soul delighteth in it, where 40-million babies have been MURDERED, where the rapes of your women and wives are universal, and all sorts of crimes, often by sanction of law?

Isaiah 45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel MINE ELECT, I have even called thee BY MY NAME: I have surnamed thee..."

See Mugs, an elect does not suggest all of Christianity, nor does it suggest those within Christianity who profess His name, for Christ Himself says that if you don't do the works of His will, "I will declare to them: Depart ye cursed, I never knew you".

There, I have answered your first paragraph. Maybe I'll answer the others later. It'll be a doozy, believe you me, not by my word, but by MY LORD, Jesus Christ.

mugwump said...

If I named my 'fruits' I would be trying to impress someone with my holiness. I am not holy. Only GOD is Holy, and I make absolutely no profession as being God.

If you were more interested in learning the ways of the Lord and less interested in judging the acts of others you would carry more influence in your posts.

I haven't killed even one baby. Get off your accusatory high horse. Are you a citizen of the United States? If you are you bear as much blame as anybody else regarding abortion. I abhore the act. Life is precious. Your identification of "rape" would get your witness dismissed in any courtroom in the world. Get off your saw related to relationship between a husband and wife. It is a gift of God. I think the only reason that you make absurd. remarks is that you, yourself are incapable of having that particular relationship with any human being. Do not assume that I endorse homosexual acts as acceptable. I'm not the judge, and in all probability will not be on the jury but, neither will you.

As for the eternal security of the believer, I have stated my case repeatedly and haven't changed my mind yet, and certainly never will.

I am not remotely impressed by the wandering circumlocuion you present.

onthestreet said...

MUGGY (9/19/2005 5:17 PM):

You say you “are not holy”. There you go! Finally you confess to being UNHOLY, for you can only serve one of two masters. You are either holy, or unholy. The Lord says: “My people shall be a holy people”. So you now confess the you are not His, after all your profession of being Christ’s, or belonging to Him.

Deuteronomy 14:2: “For you are A HOLY PEOPLE to the LORD your God”.
(1 Peter 2:9,10) “... who were chosen at the time to be a special possession, A HOLY PEOPLE”.

If you are not one of them, “you are not mine”, says the Lord. And now you confess you “ARE NOT HOLY”, and can’t even name your fruits, being barren.

As for the MURDER of babies, we are talking about your
“Christianity” that you so support, a “Christian” nation that MURDERS babies under the very sanction of law. Yes, your rape would be dismissed by “any courtroom of the world”, like you said, because the courts are OF THE WORLD. “My kingdom is NOT of this world”. Your defense of the courts ruling in favor of men raping their wives in the name of “marage” is a confession of your guilt. Rape is NOT a “gift of God”, as you call your defiling of your women.

As for my being a citizen of your nation, I never vote for criminals of any party or partisan politics. The Saints belong to a Kingdom not of this world. Yes, the FLDS people are American citizens, and of the highest caliber, but do NOT condone its crimes. This is why half of its membership is now cast off, because we do not look upon sin with the least degree of allowance, like our Lord Himself, glory be to Him.

mugwump said...

You are in the midst of committing one of the greatest sins possible and that is the sin of JUDGEMENT.

If you judge, you will be judgement at the same degree with which you stand in judgement of others. Read Romans chapter 2.

I wonder how many amens I can get from readers of this log by suggesting that your happiness of our greatest concern. May you immediately be taken from this world, you and your highest caliber Saints. You have completed your mission here. Why continue in this sinful place since you are so exalted, you don't need my permission to depart. Adeau, adios, sayanara, guten aben; chou (no too certain about spelling, nor too concerned, ots is on the last train out of town)

onthestreet said...

"Judge righteously", and "My saints shall judge all things". If you are judged, it is by your own doing, son. When the Lord said: "Judge not, that ye be not judged", it simply means "Do not judge except the way you would be judged, righteously, or erroneously. If I present to you the Word of God, and you directly violate it, you only judge, convict, and execute yourself. You often presume to present the Word of God, and then you present it erroneously, and violate that too.

What gives, brother? I don't know what you're doing in your private life, but it is grossly affecting your judgement.

Anonymous said...

You do realize what we have here, don't you?

We have a few slightly educated imbiciles who are desperately attempting to hide the fact that they remain unpolished; foolish.

These boorish cave-boys fail to recognize the glaring truth that if they truly believe the doctrine they so crudely interperet, the primitive verbal-clubbing wouldn't even be happening.

I don't know if you can accept this, guys, but one of the things you're going to have to sacrifice in order to further your intellectual is your bad-mannered bellowing at anyone who disagrees with your point of veiw.

onthestreet said...

Ahh, we only counter your lies, and prove your deceptions, that perhaps one soul may be saved if not your own. Nice bellowing though, since some disagree with you.

Anonymous said...

And I say: Keep on bellowing, streety! You are so cute when you bellow! I'd fight with you anyday (or night) *Huhmmwuh*

onthestreet said...

What, my bellows are like the bellows of an accordion, music to your ears? You are so complimentary. (:

Anonymous said...

You're welcome, Streetie~boy!

Anonymous said...

from "Far Side"

Welcome to Heaven, here's your harp.

Welcome to Hell, here's you accordian.

onthestreet said...

Welcome to Hell, here's your chalk board. Make music on that.

furnace said...

Generally, when chalkboards are involved, there is intelligent discussion going on, too.

onthestreet said...


Anonymous said...

more like the braying of a wild donkey.

onthestreet said...


Anonymous said...


onthestreet said...


Anonymous said...

more like the pitiful squeek of a dying mouse.