Monday, July 11, 2005
What kind of look will YOU choose?
To all of the folks who have or are thinking of breaking away from warren and his strict laws to live by, what kind of a look are you going to go for? It has been that our clothing was a dead giveaway of who we were. How many are going to relax the strict dress code and how many are going to loosen up a little, and how many are going to really loosen up?
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119 comments:
What do you want to wear Faithful?
For those of us who aren't FLDS, what was the dress code to start with? Male and female.
Tinie
...and what will happen if they lift the rule and allow husbands and wives to have marital relations ANYTIME THEY WANT?
Maybe husbands and wives will end up bonding to each other!
Then NOBODY can command them to break up families!
Maybe then just ONE wife can take care of a man all by herself.
That could solve a lot of problems all at once.
OK - wait a second - I didn't realize that sexual relations were scheduled - perhaps someone could explain what anon meant by his comment - and of course - tell us how you would dress as well (we don't want to get to off topic).
Please leave personal things like sex,out of this blog.Some of Us former Flds find it to be very offensive topic.How would you like your luandry posted all over the Web For Some creepy nut{OTS}to see.?Atari,Lori?Fttc.?Barlow Girl.?
I know you are better than that.
well i think if you look around some of the people who have broken away from the flds have already started wearing pants and short sleeves.
I would say that all those that take on the gentile style will look like the gentile people. They have been changing as they changed their opinions. It is evedent, what they will wear, as they leave the teachings of christ. The cloths of the harlot. The nakedness of the world. Nakedness for immorality. Chastity for worldly glory. Look around you. What will you wear when you turn from every truth you professed to beleive. You will wear the garments of unbelief. Tis not a hard question. The harlot does turn to the harlot cloths. The unbelievers turn to the gentile traditions. and sympathy of others to cover the pain of what they lost. And accuse and rail others until there judgement day, when they have to face themselfs and there is no sympathisers to divert truth from their eyes.
I think that as long as you dress modestly and appropriately, according to the season, that the Lord doesn't care if you wear pants or if you wear a dress. And yes I'm still flds.
None of you have answered my question!!! What were the clothing rules to start with. Those of us trying to understand don't know how you break the rules if we don't know what they are??
Also, what holidays do FLDS first warders celebrate? Christmas, Easter, Valentine's Day?
I thought the original dress code was to be covered from you ankles to your wrists. You can do that with pants and a shirt as well as a dress.
YOU ARE NOT ALOWED to wear pants because it is the mans clothing the wemon are to wear dresses
I am flds. However, I will not leave my husband just because someone else tells me to, so, obviously I am not a follower of Warren. The original dress code was/is girls should wear dresses that go at least 2 inches below the knees, have long sleeves, and a collar or at least not a low neckline. Men wear pants to the ankles and shirts with a collar and cuffs to the wrists. Nothing should be tight or showy.
Are you allowed to wear any color? Do you wear black when someone dies? Can you wear any pattern of fabric? What about lace and buttons? What about earrings? Hair bows? Hats? High heels?
PREJUDICE
When you go into St. George or Fredonia, do people stare or say mean things to you? If so, what do they usually say, I know calling someone a "polyg" is consider a slur, are there other terms outsiders use?
Book of Morman, 2 Nephi verse 16
Moreover, the Lord saith; Because the daughters of Zion ar haughty, and walk with stretched-forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet-
17 Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will discover their secret parts. 18 In that day the LOrd will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments, and cauls, and round tired like the moon; 19 The chains and the bracelets, and the mufflers;
20 The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the ear-ring;
21 The rings, and nose jewels;
22The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping-pins;
23 The glasses, and the fine linen, and hoods, and the veils. 24 And it shall come to pass, instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle, a rent; and insteaad of well set hair, baldness; and instead of a stomacher, a girding of sackcloth; burning instead of beauty. 25 Thy men shall fall by the sword and thy mighty in the war. 26And her gates shall lament and mourn; and she shall be sesolate, and shall sit upon the ground. THAT IS IN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION ABOUT EAR RINGS AND YOUR WORLDLY TRADITION OF GOOGLES, AND BOBBLES. wHO SO TURNETH FROM THE GOSPEL DOES TAKE UPON THE JUST JUDGEMENT OF gOD. oUR DAY WAS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK. reAD CHAPTER 14 TOO, IF YOU NEED MORE ANSWERS, yOU THAT SUPOSE YOU ARE MORMANS, AND FORGOT YOUR OWN BOOKS. aND TO THE ONE'S WHO WORRIED ABOUT THERE PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS TOLD ON THIS FORUM, 'WHAT KIND A WOMEN WOULD TELL ANOTHER PERSON THAT?' I KNOW NOT YOUR SIN'S. I WOULD NOT LISTEN IF YOU TRIED TO TELL ME.
Well I am not FLDS.
I am Gentile who wears pants. I see nothing wrong with wearing the long dresses and being separate in from the world that way if that is how you believe. If God lays it on your heart that is right for you, who am I to judge.
But God looks at the heart and I think if your are right with God you will dress modestly no matter if you are FLDS, Jew or Gentile.
And sometimes pants can be more modest than some long dresses you can see through.
God looks at the heart, start there.
Paul was an expert on Jewish law, and had to learn not to be such a legalist, which I believe was very hard for him to unlearn.
Paul said
31 Whether,then, you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
32 Give no offense either to Jew or Gentile or to the church of God.
33 just as I also please all men in all things, not seeking my own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.
1 Corin. Chapter 11: 31-33.
Also, in this chapter he speaks of Idols and food, but I have been told it can apply to other things as well.
1 Corin. Chapter 8
8:7 Howbeit there is not in all men that knowledge: but some, being used until now to the idol, eat as of a thing sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
8:8 But food will not commend us to God: neither, if we eat not, are we the worse; nor, if we eat, are we the better.
8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to the weak.
8:10 For if a man see thee who hast knowledge sitting at meat in an idol’s temple, will not his conscience, if he is weak, be emboldened to eat things sacrificed to idols?
8:11 For through thy knowledge he that is weak perisheth, the brother for whose sake Christ died.
8:12 And thus, sinning against the brethren, and wounding their conscience when it is weak, ye sin against Christ.
8:13 Wherefore, if meat causeth my brother to stumble, I will eat no flesh for evermore, that I cause not my brother to stumble.
Now Paul on Marriage which some people take offense. But you can't choose to like on of his teachings and not the other.
1 Cort. Chapter 7
7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
7:2 But, because of fornications, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.
7:3 Let the husband render unto the wife her due: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. 7:4 The wife hath not power over her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power over his own body, but the wife.
7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be by consent for a season, that ye may give yourselves unto prayer, and may be together again, that Satan tempt you not because of your incontinency.
7:6 But this I say by way of concession, not of commandment. 7:7 Yet I would that all men were even as I myself. Howbeit each man hath his own gift from God, one after this manner, and another after that.
7:8 But I say to the unmarried and to widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
7:9 But if they have not continency, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. 7:10 But unto the married I give charge, yea not I, but the Lord, That the wife depart not from her husband
7:11 (but should she depart, let her remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband); and that the husband leave not his wife.
7:12 But to the rest say I, not the Lord: If any brother hath an unbelieving wife, and she is content to dwell with him, let him not leave her.
7:13 And the woman that hath an unbelieving husband, and he is content to dwell with her, let her not leave her husband.
7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified in the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified in the brother: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
7:15 Yet if the unbelieving departeth, let him depart: the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us in peace.
7:16 For how knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? Or how knowest thou, O husband, whether thou shalt save thy wife?
7:17 Only, as the Lord hath distributed to each man, as God hath called each, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all the churches.
The FLDS used to celebrate most statutory holidays.The 4th and 24th of July were the most fun.Christmas was not celebrated by most families because we believe that Christ was born on April sixth, which was also the day he was ressurected,however most families had a huge New Year's party with presents.About ten years ago Uncle Fred recognized the need for more organized activities for young people, and established a holiday in October called The Harvest Festival.That Quickly became the #1 holiday.Then when Warren started to take control of things,he started getting rid of the holidays one at a time, beginning with the celebration of Father's and Mother's day.Now they don't celebrate any holidays.They don't even have school plays and opperettas like they used to. It's no wonder the young people are fed up with it.
I am very comfortable in my dresses and don't mind being different, however, I haven't given up any of my original beliefs. Yes, occasionally I do like to wear a necklace or bracelet, and I will never take off my ring, but I don't wear earrings.I don't see why I would want to do that to myself. I still believe in being modest and keeping my body covered. It just feels safer.
1:19pm
Thank you, that's what I am trying to understand more of. Regarding dress, can you wear any color or pattern? (I understand about earring, I wish I'd never pierced mine they are always getting infected)
On holidays, under Warren's father, did you celebrate holidays? What do people do for Harvest Fest and New Year's?
What was Warren's logic behind discontinuing holidays?
What other traditions do FLDS have?
Tooth fairy, Easter bunny, Family Home Evening, etc?
what was so bad about large floral prints that Warren banned them? How big is too big anyways... who patrolled that?
If a new rule was made, how were you told about it under Uncle Rulon and was news sent out different under Warren?
Sexual interaction is for multiplying and replenishing the earth only. Hopefully this rule prevents these old men who are past their prime from raping my little sisters.
I'm a Canadian. I came from a very liberal family. I was taught that God loves all his children. I never knew that we weren't supposed to have fun on holidays. Christmas was always my favorite. We did decorations, baking, and presents. Uncle Wink always gave every family a turkey. It was all about family.
My fathers family is still part of the FLDS and they are not supposed to wear printed fabrics, and anything with hearts on it is banned.
At funerals we wear cheery colors. We don't do the dark depressing colors.
All families like to get together and have a good time.
When a father pulls out a tooth he gives the child a loonie (we don't do the Tooth fairy thing.)
We do Easter Treasure hunts(we don't do the Easter bunny)
I hope my children will have as good a childhood as I did.
I agree Faithful!
2:35, What is a "loonie" for a tooth?
Why can't you have hearts on clothes? Also, I refer you to my other questions posted 2:32-
Thanks for the info!
Also, I looked up 2 Nephi, Chapter 13, versus 16-26 about clothing...
It says no bonnets- can you wear bonnets? Do you?
It also talks about no sweet smell, does that mean no perfume? I couldn't live without mine, so what would you do instead?
Also says no glasses, does that mean perscription, or just sunglasses?
I grew up mainstream LDS and there ain't nobody who is following what it says here in the BOM
if you want to see some of the styles of dress, there are a couple of them on ebay just look under polygamous dresses
I was in Wal-mart the other day, just anaylizing people (which is my favorite past time) and alot of the teen agers and people look scruggy. Frizzy hair and skin showing every where. And then I saw some girls from cc. They sure looked nice with their hair combed in a french braid and a nice dress.
There was a time after I left that I thought dresses were disgusting because they were "Pligy"...but I am really impressed with some of the David Jeffs girls (notice this seems to be a female issue, the men may change to short sleeves, but seem to be more comfortable just as they were). I am not comfortable the way I am, or the way I was..so the delima of the day is fit in or stand out. Either way I am still different. My boys wear short sleeve shirts, they are only $3 at Wal-mart and I am not searching all the racks to find long sleeves in the summer and wearing winter clothes all summer..It's just not convenient.
I dislike long underwear. It was the first thing to go however it did take me a year or so to make the first move:) lol
2:51 A loonie is a canadian dollar
One day in Church, Rulon Jeffs said that Jesus would come back in a cloak of red and that Red was sacred. That no man should wear a red tie or women should wear a red dress. I had alot of good red dresses I got rid of. Now I look at that and think that we went OVERBOARD. Soon it was no red anything, from cars to clips and flowers.
Now red is my theme color. I feel invincible when I wear red. I think I look great in it. And I don't think that God would create all the colors and then say, don't use red.
However FLDS is not the only ones that think that way. The Amish and Mennonites that I know use only earth tones and tiny prints. Their reasoning is that God used Brown and Blue the most and used red and orange and yellow as highlights. So they are following Natures example.
To the person that wrote this: "Please leave personal things like sex,out of this blog.Some of Us former Flds find it to be very offensive topic."
Because of multiple relation ships I can understand not talking about one wives this or that.
But sex itself and marriage relationships are just that. If we had talked about SEX, then maybe all the girls that leave the creek wouldn't jump into bed with the first 50 guys she finds.
I don't intend on talking about personal relationships, but living in polygamus family, "Father is sleeping at Mother #5 tonight" is acceptable.
I believe that we are to be a light on the hill and in order to do that we must talk positive about our beliefs even if it is on the world wide web. And I think that saying people's names will at least get them looking at the blog and get them involved and talking. Talking is a important part of Democracy.
If Leroy Jeffs had been able to talk to Allen Steed and understood what Allen was going through, Do you think that Leroy would have looked forward to doing the same? I don't think so.
Something has got to change and we are going to be the ones making the difference.
To the flds, hearts are a sign of lust. That is why they don't use them or wear them. They don't use the vibrant colors or large prints because they are not considered modest and they attract attention.
At this point in time the FLDS first warders celebrate NOTHING. They don't celebrate Christmas, Easter, or Valentine's Day? They don't even celebrate birthdays.
We had our own holidays like Harvest Fest and Uncle Roys Birthday. These were BIG celebrations, church members came from Canada, and Idaho and SLC
We had dances and programs with singing and slide shows and talent shows and enjoyed each others company.
What was Warren's logic behind discontinuing holidays? Who knows? My guess is that he couldn't control people that got together and talked...so he stopped all meetings of any kind and all recreation. Soon we feared for losing everything, so we stopped talking to our best friends. We couldn't mention Winstons name with out starting a fight. I am still working on saying what I think, because my opinion never counted before. Now I realize that if the Mothers would stand up for their future and their children it will make all the difference in the world.
What other traditions do FLDS have?
Tooth fairy, Easter bunny, Family Home Evening, etc?
I personally want to teach my children the Truth. I don't think that Santa and the Tooth Fair and Easter bunny have anything to do with the holidays. Don't get me wrong, I Love Holidays, it is the time we have to be with our families. If there were no Holidays then we would be running so fast, we wouldn't or couldn't take the time.
We had Saturday projects every Saturday, all the available men, boys would donate their time and effort to build up the community. A great cause until it became manditory and lasted all week. Now our Saturdays are "Family Fun Day". A much better way to spend the day.
Before the split all the girls wore hair bows, lace, ribbons. We weren't all the same everyone tried to have their own "style" while still sticking to the conservative style that is so much a part of our religion. Almost all the guys wore hats too, especially the truckers and loggers. As for colors we didn't do neon, and we used red very sparingly but other than that it was up to you.
The first thing I'll say is A Canadian dollar is called a loonie.
Two layers, what ever works,but for me I feel that skin just makes children want to touch. If your children are covered they will be less likely to be a victim. Some children are more curious than others,and some get in the wrong croud. We all want our children to be safe, and careful. So let us open our hearts and share our knowledge with our children. I don't make my babies wear long underwear. I'm not a part of Warren's group, I don't even know where he came from. One day he just showed up and started telling us we were going to hell.
Street "Why do you say so and then do the opposite?" How do you know what I do? I look just fine without long underwear. ;p :o
What do you do? I suppose you have your longies, thick cotton socks, long sleeve shirt with collar and long pants, work boots and a cowboy hat in the 100 degrees plus in Phoenix. Ya!
And you are not a girl, It is different from my point of view.
to anon 4:24
I agree with you completely!!! You are obviously a very caring person and mother. It's so good to hear these thoughts coming from someone else. Thank you!
I have a related question to dress...it's what your homes wear! What types of art hang on people's walls, on their bed stand, etc. I know many mainstream LDS people hav a picture of Jesus, sometimes one of Joseph Smith or the current prophet. Is this that same for FLDS people? Are homes decorated any differently than an outsiders home?
A little while ago WJ told the people to get rid of all the pictures of apostates. So anyone who has been kicked out or left is off the wall. Get it?
With so many children it is hard to have alot of knick knacks and many don't believe in decorations because they can become idols. Pictures of Warren are predominant, pictures of Joseph Smith are common.
I am beginning to get a clear piture of why some of you left our church. Read the book. Doctrine and covenants section 42
verse 39 For it shall come to pass, that which I spake by the mouths of my prophets shall be fulfulled; for I will consecrate of the riches of those who embrace my gospel among the Gentiles unto the poor of my people who are of the house of Israel.
verse 40
And again thou shalt not be proud in thy heart; let all thy garments be plain, and their beauty the beauty of the work of thine own hands;
And if you need further referance read Doctrine and covnants 43 I will type one verse. 21 For if I , who am a man, do lift up my voice and call upon you to repent, and ye hate me, what will ye say when the day cometh when the thunders shall utter their voices from the ends of the earth, speaking to the ears of all that live, saying Repent, and prepare for the great day of the Lord?
Why did ths high-ranking men used to dress so differantly?From the rank and file?I mean U.Roy,U Rulon,U,Marion.U.Dell timpson.Uncle Fred.wore Jet Black 3-piece suits with white shirt and gleaming white tie.I think the older Barlows sometimes dressed in this fashion?What was the reason for it?
Okay, so you say that you don't want any talk about SEX on this thread?
Fine.
So somebody start a thread about SEX.
I think maybe the clothing topic has run its course...
Does anybody want to talk about healthcare? What type of healthcare do you receive if you're FLDS? Is there a midwife that delivers all of those babies? I know the clinic in town closed, so now what do people do?
(What was the clinic like anyway, I read it had camera's and a gate, why, that seems odd)
There are plenty of other places for people to talk about that. Please go there to discuss your private lives.
We have a wonderful clinic in B.C.!! It is so much better than having to go to the hospital to have a baby. And we have the best midwives and RN's around! They have patients from outside our community as well as within and they are the most wonderful caring people in this world! We are so blessed to have them here!
4:59
Pictures of Jesus aren't allowed because Warren says that nobody knows what he looks like and the world's pictures of him are really the devil.
pictures of warren are really the devil?
And to the one who feels like they are surviving, I sugest you get proffesional help. You do speak about the condition of your house. If you are only surviving, Get professional help.
As to the celabration of holidays, we worship Christ every day of the year, not one time a year. We honor Mothers always not one time a year. We honor our birth-right every day of the year. I do not believe that any one has a photo of Christ and I would not hang up a piture of a street vagrant as he.
Is that true about having pictures of Jesus- is that just Warren or has that always held true for one reason or another?
What is health care like in Colorado City?
What about pictures of the first vision, would you not hang those because Heavenly Father and Jesus are in it?
This has been a great thread and I have enjoyed reading it. It seems that everything which was meant as sweet and beautiful - became evil.
Hearts instead of signifying love signify lust.
Children's BOM stories are now just 'full of naked prophets' and should be thrown away.
A dress with a flower - the kind God created, is evil.
Everything that was made for good, was turned to evil, colors, books, pictures, pants, skin, and yes, sex.
I don't particulary want to start a new thread on it. But someone brought it up and so I asked. I'm not ashamed marital relations either. Clearly - the WHOLE NAME OF YOUR GROUP - Polygamist - by definition is about being married to multiple people and thus having marital relations with more than one person.
To me it doesn't seem offensive to inquire - however, I'm not looking for salatious details (as one might infer), just the rules you have for that activity.
For instance - the rules I learned in premarriage classes at our church. None prior to marriage, and in marriage - what I do in my bed with my husband is just dandy (that's the short and skinny).
So, like all the good things that became taboo - marital relations must have made the list - what a shame.
Since I don't believe the BOM, the clothing rules are not relevant to me, nor my definition of acceptable.
I would suggest you do not get curiouse about us then. You can not be a morman and not believe it.
As to your sexuall curiosity go to vegas. I am sure they will accomadate you. A person who would reveal what they do with there husband is a loose person. Or a man that would reveal his relationships are not worthy of the kingdom. Every Question that you have about the Fundamentle Mormans can be answered in the Book of Mormon. If you are less than What is written here, you are not a fundamentle Morman. I will give you a hint and a clue. We believe in being honest, True Chaste, Benevoulent, Virtues and in doing good to all men, Indeed we say we follow the adminition of Paul. WE believe all things, We hope all things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these thigs.
We claim the privilege of worshiping God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, whrer, or what they may.
Our Religion and the constitution are united in the law and the rules: too bad our enamies, are opposed to it.
Too bad the state of Utah has forsaken there own church books and the constitution. Congress shall make no law restricting a persons religion. How about it bible thumpers, can we take your land now, that they try to put a new law in. It is called we do not like you. We do not like your religion. We do not like your cloths: Move
Oh, I left out one thing: You will have to find as many people who hate your lifestyle as you can and get them to lie on t.v. and stir up people against you. Get doctors that hate you to say you are a cult. I think it is easier for americans to swallow, when they assasinate them, like they did in Waco Texas, if they call them a cult. And that man who starved his disabled wife: All he had to do is get a doctor to say she was not quiet human, and Walla-------Yet she lived longer than any human I have ever heard about with out food or water.
Well isn't that the pot calling the kettle black.
Atar
Just as a side note. The quotes on clothing above are taken from a part of the BOM where Nephi is quoting from Isaiah 3:17-24.
Honestly! When you asked about what our houses wear, it reminded me of all of the things Warren has banned. We can't have pictures of relatives, because they have been expelled. We can't have any "gentile" adornments, i.e. landscapes or pictures not of our own making. This leaves pictures of the prophets. And it seems that whoever has the most of Warren when they die wins. You would not believe what I have seen. In my sister's BEDROOM alone, she has 7--count them--SEVEN pictures of Warren. And guess what? Not a single one of her own husband or children.
That is just pretty asinine and extreme if you ask me.
I get pretty bitter over the holiday issue because as soon as Warren got a little power, as he supposes, he immediately began to exercise unrighteous dominion over the people and they are perishing from lack of air and light.
He has singlehandedly abolished our culture and history. We used to celebrate Uncle Roy's birthday with watermelon. Gone. We used to get invited to Uncle Fred's for strawberries on his birthday. Gone. We used to have the Harvest festival, dances, plays, programs, a zoo, education, music, and laughter. All gone. They were not monuments to Warren and so he could not abide them. He has abolished our memories of Uncle Roy because it doesn't facilitate the worship of Warren.
He has even inserted himself into people's prayers, instructing them to "envision the prophet when you pray because you don't know what God looks like."
Well, I know how God treats people and it is the diametric opposite of how Warren does. By his fruits I know who he is and who he represents on this earth and I for one am going to get as far away from him as I can.
AMEN!
Faithful, thanks for posting the thread, this was a good idea.
As to the person whose sister has seven photos of Warren in her bedroom... what are these photos of Warren doing? Does he just go around doing photos shoots and handing out photos? Curious...I think it would be strange to have another man's photo in my room besides my husbands...
How about it bible thumpers, can we take your land now, that they try to put a new law in. It is called we do not like you. We do not like your religion. We do not like your cloths: Move
7/11/2005 6:59 PM
Now that's the true face of a Warrenite. I hope you folks in Eldorado, Texas and Schleicher County are paying attention.
Well your gal folks in Texas like to wear those pale pinks, blues, white and yellows. Infact one lady likes black. What about that.
I say you know nothing about true followers of our church. They would not be on this web page. and to the 7;46 poster, This nation is looking. I am sure you will get your wish and you will never see them again. Neither will they. And if you argue my first sentance, I am not a true follower of our church, I would never be wasteing my time on your filthy dishonest war.
9:20
Now THAT made a LOT of sense!
When I went to C.C. for Uncle Rulon's funeral, I went to his home to see some friends. I was ushered into the sitting room where I found a framed, life sized picture of uncle Rulon sitting in his chair. That is also the first funeral I've ever been to where someone got up and spoke for the deceased.Also, on the programs were printed Rulon T. Jeffs conducting.Tell me, How do you conduct your own funeral?
Street
decent=proper
descent=going down
sometimes your spelling confuses us.
Street, I have to tell you this: I was mistaken. These people are not somewhat intelligent. Better learn to spell. They are greedy faithless ----------- looking to destroy. You waste your time, as do I. What was your mission. I can not imagine it was to correct imbasiles.
imagine that! he even has his picture on this web site!
I'm certain if I would have mentioned having Jesus portrait in my bedroom (I don't actually have one) OTS would have made some sort of sleezy creepy comment about a mans photo in my bedroom.
And, having been to WAY TOO MANY funerals I can tell you that YES it is MORE THAN odd to have the deceased officiating.
But then I believe that the prophecy, or the basic understanding at the time (from what I have heard) is that Rulon would NOT die. So his death was actually shocking in a way, and they needed a way to save face a little probably.
My niece died this fall. And, she belongs to the group that I used to be in. As I cared for her, I was smack dab in the middle of it again. Prophecies about how she would live, get married and have a family. My sister in law did not believe she would die.
I finally called and told the leaders wife to stop it. It was getting to be a problem, the family was believing in the prophecies to the point that they were not doing the grieving.
Since I just happen to know what they heck I'm talking about when I'm at the bedside of a patient dying of cancer - I tried my best, and I let everyone know when it was time, she passed. And, as promised the 'resurection squad' emerged (no joke).
Anyhow, she lay in her bed at home for no less than 8 hours post mortem. The leaders finally said that no one had ever prophecied that (never mind the written prophecies on her walls by those same leaders) and they left, and she was finally taken to the funeral home.
That, was a bit of saving face - it wasn't real, it was a lie - they had said it. But it left my the family with this 'what the heck' sort of feeling to deal with.
So, leaders trying to save face is nothing new - and nothing that is only in the FLDS. Neither is prophecy. Yeah, other people do it too, and with sometimes the same innaccuracy - and we all end up having to pretend they never said it. - pathetic.
Reminds me of when Rulon said we were all going to be lifted up!
In the FLDS religion, do they do priesthood blessings for people who are sick? What about fasting?
We do believe in priesthood blessings for the sick. And yes, we do fast and pray when we are trying to show the Lord how much we need his help.
it's strange to see the women in their yards and gardens in their "work dresses".....with levi's underneath.
How does one go about paying tithing, did you give it directly to whoever was the prophet at the time, mail it to them, drop it off at their house, or in church? Was it in cash, check, credit card?
What do you have to pay tithing on? Income, property, birthday gifts, etc.
Have the scriptures on it, just want to know how it works in FLDS.
Warren instigated some sort of spacing between children for awhile - like you shouldn't have more than one child every two years. He also began to prohibit intimacy within many relationships for various reasons - some general proscriptions. Sick! I don't know how far it has gone now. I can't imagine towards the better.
Immorality thy name is Street.
Hypocrisy thy name is Warren.
Warren Steed Jeffs=The Anti-Christ
OntheStreet = biggest hypocrite on earth
HELLFIRE=Eventual home of the above
OnTheStreet if Warren Steed Jeffs is such a GOOD man,and Prophet then why did YOU APOSTATIZE?Arent you really just another Lying Apostate?
For once Street tell the truth!
ots, don't you think that Christ died for our sins? why don't you forsake your sins and sin no more
then God will forgive you and maybe you'll be able to enjoy the rest of your life.
OTS, I think you suffer from mental illness...depression. Often times people don't recognize it, but it oozes from your words. I'd ask you to seek help, but few are brave enough. This is being said with no regard to religion.
And while we declare that to reject the moral law as a rule of life, tends to dishonour Christ, and destroy true religion, we must also declare, that all dependence for justification on good works, whether real or supposed, is as fatal to those who persist in it.
While we are zealous for good works, let us be careful not to put them in the place of Christ's righteousness, and not to advance any thing which may betray others into so dreadful a delusion.
The grossness of the flesh?? Oh and street, just how long does it take to repent? How will you know when you are done repenting? Why do you repent from so far away,and not with your family and friends? Just curious.
Name
I wear swim suits when swimming, what do you wear? Do you DARE?
1:08 blog. in answer to your question regarding tithing. Usually the Bishop takes the tithing. In pre-warren times we were instructed to take care of our own needs with our income and give the excess to the Lords storehouse. The Lord stated the the minimum we should pay as a tithe is 10% of our increase. The Bishop was responsible to see to the needs of the poor and the needy, the widows and the fatherless. Such things as funerals and situations of extended healthcare were paid for with tithing dolars.
street: Thats a pretty good one. Comments like that are why we keep you around. Every once in a while, when you're not spewing warrens-so-good nonsense, you come up with some good ones.
Stick to the humor.
BTW- you'd get a more even tan by just wearing your hat, smile, and spurs.
LTG
For the record
Intimacy does not always equal Immorality.
AREN'T YA SUPPOSED TO LOVE THE PERSON THAT YA HAVE "INTIMACY" NOT JUST HAVE SEX WITH WHOEVER WARREN TELLS YOU TOO..AND WHAT THE HELL IS UP WITH PRAYING WHILE YA HAVE SEX. THAT IS JUST WRONG. I MEAN SURE THANK GOD MORNING AND NIGHT. BUT PRAY WHILE YOU ARE HAVING SEX? NOT HAPPENING....
Again intimacy doesn't always equal immorality.
Acting in an imoral fashion would be acting in a way that is contrary to moral principles.
If you are intimate with your husband or your wife within the bond of that union - there are no rules about where, when or attire for this intimacy.
There is nothing depraved, reprobate, wicked, dishonorable, unethical amoral in the intimacy that occurs between a husband and a wife.
Do not call wicked - what the Lord has called good.
Do FLDS have to keep their garments on during sex?
I have thought I was quite well versed in the doctrine of FLDS. At least before warren started to change things.
I don't recall hearing any rules of behavior after marriage respecting a man and his wife/wives. It seemed more like victorian days when the subject was more taboo in discussion.
I had heard some restrictions credited to Guy Musser but as I stated before when my father asked him about it he said he was not the one who came up with them.
To 7/13/2005 8:19 PM
Yes!
Go back to humor street.
You can always bring up some obscure Jesus reference as to why an acitivity is bad, whether its sex between people who are married to each other or just a conversation between people of the opposite sex. According to you, both of these activities seem to be disrespectful, filthy, ungodlike, etc.
But you are equally adept at quoting other Jesus reference's as to why it is OK for FLDS to abuse food stamps, WIC, young brides, etc.
The more you blog the more we all realize what a fool you are. Yes, street. You've been fooled, tricked, bamboozled, whitewashed, and just plain lied to.
I'm sure you'll come back with some Jesus/Joseph/warren quote to convice yourself that I am the offspring of the devil. But in doing so, you reveal a deeper layer of your fooled, bamboozled self.
Desire, sex, fondling, touching, that's what a good marriage has. Another thing I'm sure that is taboo to be mentioned, but with all the 'starchy sex' OTS intimates the FLDS has (wearing long johns, no fondling, only for procreation) I'm guessing the women aren't enjoying it NEARLY as much as the men.
I think that's a crying shame. And, if the men have all these wives, and they are bound and shackled with that kind of nonsense with each intimate encounter - it can only be so fun (but at least they have SOME).
OTS sounds like someone who lost his family, and the only sin he can think of that he may have committed was enjoying his wife.
STREET'S Response: Any lust or sexual mingling of the gross element is as Christ says: "The pollution of your inheritance," and as his disciple says: "Lustful or devilish" (synonymous). Then you are not "intimate within union" because you destroy that union and vow to honor one another. Sexual assault or sexual fondling is NOT honorable. Again, that sews to the flesh, not to the spirit.
You say "there are no rules". I just stated some of them. Christ's rules and counsels are not for nothing, as you declare they are.
Do not call good what the Lord has called evil.
OK STREET - One more time.
You can quote stuff out of context for sure. Give us the scripture or D & C. I don't recall Jesus saying these things.
EVERYONE READ THE BIBLE FOR YOUR SELVES. If you believe, the Holy Spirit will help you understand, Jesus sent Him to earth to help understand all that has come before.
1 Cort. Chapter 7
7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
7:2 But, because of fornications, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.
7:3 Let the husband render unto the wife her due: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. 7:4 The wife hath not power over her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power over his own body, but the wife.
7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be by consent for a season, that ye may give yourselves unto prayer, and may be together again, that Satan tempt you not because of your incontinency.
THIS IS FOR YOUR BENIFIT STREET AND PROFIT JEFFS.
Doctrine and Covenants 9-13.
9. Wherefore, I say unto you, that ye ought to forgive one another; for he that forgiveth not his brother his trespasses standeth condemned before the Lord; for there remaineth in him the greater sin.
10. I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men.
(I guess Warren has reached God Status since he cannot forgive.)
11. And ye ought to say in your hearts-let God judge between me and thee, and reward thee according, to thy deeds.
NOW STREET READ THIS AND WARREN TAKE NOTE.
12 And him that repenteth not of his sins, and confesseth them not, ye shall bring before the church, and do with him as the scipture saith unto you, either by commandment or by revelation.
13. And this ye shall do that God may be glorified-not because ye forgive not, having not compassion, but that ye may be justified in the eyes of the law, that ye may not offend him who is your lawgiver.
Warren Jeffs once told us that when he confessed his sins (porn)to the prophet (his father) and was forgiven, is when he got the closest and made the most progress personally. This is just what he needs to do (again) Come to JUSTICE, tell them he is sorry and will do better and then progress.
Only after he started preaching over the pulpit that kind of stuff was forgotten.(stuffed under the rug)
Rumor
I do not doubt what you say but this is honestly the first I have heard about this. Can you tell when and where he confessed or admitted that he confessed?
OTS - you just don't go around fondling stray women thither and yon - YOU GET A WIFE.
You give her your body and render unto her her due (orgasm). You get her body - and she' renders unto you your due (orgasm).
So stop being so stiff and don't make me spell it out so plainly. I won't mince words on this one.
It is not sinful, or lustful to have sex and enjoy intimacy with your mate - PERIOD.
Yer makin me blush.
awwwww shucks - twasn't nothin'
Okay, so the FLDS rules are you have to wear garments during sex and no foreplay? That's what I'm getting from these posts, can anyone confirm my accuracy, don't need the details, just a yes or no will do.
Thanks
7:18
yes
The embarrassing part of this conversation is that people actually bought this crap.
Uncovering the nakedness - in this context meant uncovering the sinful nature - the sin.
IT'S OK TO SEE YOUR WIFE NAKED AND VISA VERSA.
But we don't walk around naked ANYMORE LIKE WE USED TO IN THE GARDEN, because we notice we are naked. God didn't originally make us with clothes on. Trying to be equal with God - made us realize our sin nature and we felt naked.
Too bad they are running - they must not like the guy - because that's one of the big benefits to marriage.
So do the FLDS garments have "holes" in them that facilitate their procreative activities?
Where do they get these garments from? Are they like LDS ones with symbols on them? Are they blessed? Made out of special material?
Sounds kind of personal.
You some kind of underwear perv?
No underwear perv here, just trying to figure out how it all works so I can have a clear idea in comparing it to my experience in the LDS church...which doesn't have "holes" in the underwear because you don't have to wear them during sex. If you do like they're saying about the FLDS, then there must be some way their rigged up for that...Curious
They are not like the LDS ones because they are full jump suits. To the wrists, ankles, neck ect. Slit in the front flap in the back. My mom tried to make me wear them when I was a teen, so I went with nothing for three days untill she gave me my tighty whities back. There are also the two piece type. Long johns and full sleeve undershirts. I wouldn't even wear those... They are sewn by the families.. I remember the Steeds ladies making a bunch of them for different families.
I think that every FLDS woman should have a "TOY" in thier bathroom closet. They would definitly keep sweet all the time. BUZZZzzzzzz
I remember finding my aunt's, she said that it was medically perscribed to assist in getting pregnant. I alwayse wondered why she dissapeared for hours at a time...
Thank you for the info. anon 5:58. I appreciate someone respectfully willing to share their culture, for better or worse... (I assume in your description that are the same for women and men)
I've heard that the firt wife, depending on personality, often dominates the household. Is this true and if so, how does she go about doing it and remaining obedient?
What exactly do you mean by "handled?"
help
This sort of thing usually shuts OTS up - I'll try.
So, what does the FLDS thing about female orgasm OTS?
That is why I recommend the TOY.
OTS, I'm sure that you have many TOY's in that lonely little appartment of yours... It's too hot to go outside and play.
LMAO!! This blog has really reared off course.
"reared off course
Unfortunate choice of words. . .
So, OTS did you ever satisfy your wife? Or were her needs not considered?
There is always a woman that is dominate in a household. The only reason for this is that some people are leaders and are good at organizing and communicating.
Polygamy is a great lifestyle. It has more good than bad. We have been in it for 6 generations.
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