Wednesday, July 06, 2005

Taking an opinion poll

Should the UEP Trust be saved or disolved?

Please answer with one word.

And write if you live on UEP Trust Land currently.

87 comments:

rumor-has-it said...

As you know, the trustees are getting replaced..the UEP could continue as it is. It takes alot to build something that could be taken apart in a short time. I am just taking a opinion poll out of curosity.

Anonymous said...

No way !!!let it be dissolved!Get rid of the Warrenites!let them go join their "Profit"in texas.We sure as h*ll dont need another despotic oligarchicy to take their place!

Anonymous said...

No, let it be done away with.give it
back to the people who built it.Dont bring in another group,No matter how ever well intentioned,to replace the old trustees.Let it go back to the residents.This situation with the U.E.P. can NEVER,NEVER happen again.If the new board is made up of the people who have been nominated,It will only be a matter
of time until they are as bad as the old board.None of these people
are objective.

Anonymous said...

SAVE

Currently live on UEP

Anonymous said...

eliminate.

ATAR_i said...

Eliminate over time, say a 10 year plan. It would be interesting. Sure might be another spin on shuffling wives around.

If a man builds a beautiful house - the more women he shares it with (plural wives) the more he loses with the loss of each wife - who would technically be able to have half of the equity in the house and all of his assets, plus child support for children.

I think men better be a little bit less excited about getting married to mass amounts of women.

Anonymous said...

Yes, absolutely, preserve the UEP

Our grand fathers compiled an inspired document to create a preserve where our culture could grow in harmony and peace. Their vision was not flawed even though the vehicle has been driven off course.

The United Effort Plan was just that, an effort toward unity, designed to capture the benefits of the synergy of those men and families who believed in the capstone principles of the gospel - plural marriage and united order. It was designated by them as "first, philanthropic."

If the settlors of the trust wanted a one-man organization they could have created it that way. They didn't! The board members and trustees have failed in their duty by not pepetuating the board and not showing up to defend our heritage and our homes.

The vision of the trust CAN be preserved by keeping the trust intact and issuing marketable right-to-use permits to the residents. The taxes can be billed directly to the occupants and the commercial properties can pay fair value for the use of the UEP lands and assets. Transfers of the member's use permits can be reviewed by the board to prevent abuses and a reasonable appeals process can be instituted to resolve any conflicts.

Common use facilities like parks, cemetary, assembly areas, etc could easily be administered by the cities and therefor would be available to the public without discrimination.

Consider our responsibility to deliver to future generations the same opportunity that our faithful pioneer grand parents left to us. What right do we have to liquidate the inheritance that was so generously intrusted to us ?

We have a sacred obligation to rescue the UEP from mismanagement and stop allowing it to be used as a instrument of abuse. We also have the opportunity and responsibility to revisit the intentions of the inspired visionary men who created the UEP.

Anonymous said...

No, it should be dissolved.

So many of the provisions of the trust are obsolete by any definition. It had a great run - did many good things - but has outlived its usefulness and should be cerimoniously dissolved and buried in an un-dedicated grave.

Very few of the actions and formalities outlined in the 1942 UEP charter have been followed. No membership list was kept. No appications for membership have been received. No members were approved in trustee meetings.
The for-profit ventures described were all discontinued or handled by other means. And - worst of all - the entire board of trustees have been shushed to silence while the organization became a Dictatorship.

No one ever moved to UEP property, set a stone, or pounded a nail believing that they would be ousted for crimes -real or imaginary.

The UEP has become a Frankensein Monster on the loose that must be captured and euthanized.

With that rant said, here are the reasons:

The UEP now represents another layer of government and is redundant. The cities and towns can do all the planning and zoning, building permitting, property surveying, streets, roads, sidewalks, etc that are necessary. Hildale Town and Colorado City did not exist in 1942. Now they do.

The "priesthood work" had no face in 1942. The states of Arizona and Utah were still raiding the communities about every 9 years, 1935, 1944, 1953... Now, the church has a corporate sole (love it or hate it), the dairy and farms are incorporated. The store and station are independent business and the community is no longer looking to the UEP or the trustees for these services.

Private ownership of property has become the norm and is the foundation of any thriving economy. A reservation for communal family living is no longer the basis for peaceful survival in todays world. Now the stability of any reigion is based on its economy. The UEP is no longer the center of the economy of the Short Creek Valley. Now it has become the major obstical !

Lets talk about retirement. Most elderly folks spend years building equity in their primary residence or business and retire on that equity. Many people have liquidated their retirement accounts, ESOPs, home equities, and insurance policies to "invest" in the UEP. They did so on the faith that the storehouse would reciprocate in some fashion when they had medical, retirement, or funeral needs. While no specific promise was made in this regard, but there were countless calls to "tumble in" the surplus and rely on the Lord for the "rainy day."

No one could envision that the FLDS retirement plan would be a one way ticket to nowhere. The equities of the United Effort Plan do not belong to the organized church nor to the individuals involved. The UEP trust document provides for the event of dissolution. It states that the assets shall be distributed on the basis of share and share alike. This concept could have so many iterpretations that the entire corpus would go to the lawyers. (not a pleasant thought, unless you are a lawyer) It could create tax issues (which may not be insurmountable with the right court rulings).

An equitable dissolution would probably entail a claim and waiting period when the UEP could sort out its resources and obligations. Then a negotion period wherein the claims were met and settled in some fashion depending on the trusts ability to pay. Then, lastly a cooling off period when the deeds, settlments, or payments were made in such a way that the individuals could not be coerced to re-intrust them to any other "unhealty" arrangement.

It IS possible to have an orderly unwinding of the trust. It may not be possible to make everyone happy in the process, but once private ownership and free enterprise are restored the healing process can at least begin.

May the UEP rest in peace, so that we all can do the same.

Anonymous said...

Four of us sitting together all think it should be saved. We live on it, have spent our lives building it up, and want to see it saved in a way so that this can't happen again. Do you other folks live on it? Identify please.

Anonymous said...

So how can it be saved in a way that this can't happen again?

Anonymous said...

The old timers who built the UEP with blood sweat and tears would have said "save it" and those who had nothing to do with building it would say "cut the baby in half" I lived there for nearly half a century, and have a vested interest, but have other interests now also.
I say, let's do all we can to save it. Unity is still the only way.

Anonymous said...

disolved

Jessop Pioneer said...

I have spent my life buildng it up.I live on it.I vote yes keep it.

Anonymous said...

Dissolve

outsider said...

I just want my house back!

ATAR_i said...

Anon 11:58 - apply to be on the board - you level headed soul.

alj said...

yes save it...no i don't live on UEP land

Anonymous said...

What do you get when you play one of Warren's pingy-pangy tapes backwards?

You get your wives back, you get your kids back, you get your house back.....

Anonymous said...

I don't know whether to save it or dissolve it, but I want to know if I can pry the UEP letters off my house or if anyone will have a problem with that???? Anyone else have letters, or am I one of the now few?

Anonymous said...

Hey, Jessop Pioneer!

I am all for keeping the UEP, as long as someone like you will serve on the board! If you are the level-headed person that I think you are, the go for it!

I just thought that none of the nominees were good choices, except Winston Balckmore. Everyone else has an ax to grind, or are just plain power hungry and greedy. I cannot imagine anyone having any respect for, or taking the advice of R Holm, with his track record, for instance.


Everyone knows how bitter he is, he gets on TV and tells us so, and if someone like that has a vendetta, then how the hell can they be fair and just in their administration?

That was why I supported it being dissolved. Are you going to go to the meeting and put in your two bits? I sure hope so!

Jessop Pioneer said...

Yes, I will be at the meeting,along with Uncle Spencer Johnson.

onthestreet said...

Save, dissolve, regardless. Whatever they all do, it'll be the same still, having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof. Bleed the beast, or let the beast lap the blood. No matter.

By the way: Any of you cowpokes ever been poked? I stuck myself with a thorn this morning. Talk about bleeding the beast! The gross element is animal in nature, and must be blead out. Then we can begin to ascend the column WYYSMKLYHVHELHM.

onthestreet said...

That last acronymn are five, meaning wise king at the helm.

onthestreet said...

outsider said...
I just want my house back!
7/07/2005 8:54 AM

Waaaaa. . . I want my mommy!

Anonymous said...

...to change your diaper, most likely.

onthestreet said...

My point exactly. All this BOOBING about land and money and wives, and everything else that nobody ownes.

Anonymous said...

I say YES!!

living on UEP land

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1:49,

I totally agree with you that someone as bitter and full of malice as Richard Holm should not be a trustee. I know he's probably been through a lot, but I certainly wouldn't want him to represent me in any way.

And Yes, I live on UEP land.

Faithful Woman said...

Thank you 11:58

I agree with you.

Anonymous said...

The United Order and Polygamy should not be undertaken without Priesthood or a Prophet.

So.....dissolve it.

Anonymous said...

if down goes the UEP
so goes the walls of secrecy and control

just think,
mortgages
insurances
taxes
paved roads
elected officials
political debate
building inspectors
city administrators
private business
parks & rec
child labor laws
lawyers
journalists
public access

hello,
TV sets
computers
pink dresses
rock & roll
hair spray
little league
christmas trees
puppy dogs

real schools
real administrators
real teachers
real library
real cops

eek!
scaring me and i never been there
.... i vote no

keep sweet eldorado
stg

... i also vote Faithful Woman for mayor

Anonymous said...

I don't think anyone should be spouting criticism against Richard Holm unless they have contributed at least as much as he did.

I vote dissolve the UEP so we can start the process of going forward instead of being stuck in the past and at risk of the same mistakes.

Anonymous said...

UPDATE
JULY 5, 2005
Petitioners Donald B. Cox, James N. Pipkin, and Merrill Harker, by and through their undersigned counsel, and pursuant to the order entered by the above-entitled Court on June 22, 2005, hereby give notice that they have filed a petition whereby they propose that the Court appoint new trustees for the United Effort Plan Trust as follows: Robert C. Huddleston, Craig L. Booth, and Gregory A. Kemp.

Anonymous said...

disolve

Anonymous said...

Hey 7/7 @ 3:38--
Yes what??!!!???
Yes dissolve or yes keep?

onthestreet said...

YES

Anonymous said...

Just give us the money we invested in our home so that we can migrate to America. It will be a NICE change.

On UEP in CC.

Anonymous said...

Can someone enlighten me on the location of the meeting concerning the UEP in CC on Friday? What time and where? And also, where is this information being posted?
Thanks ever so much!

Anonymous said...

Disolve.

All of the ousted and 2nd warders have a score to settle. All of the first warders need to go ask Warren for guidance on every decision. The trustees will not agree on anything and many will become frustrated with the lack of progress and quit. The majority will be first warders and they will call secret or impromtu meetings when they know other trustees are out of town. It'll be just like the school board.

I don't live in CC. I gave up my lot and moved on before starting a home, thank God.

LTG

Anonymous said...

Colorado City Town Hall building - 11:30

Anonymous said...

Richard Holm might have donated a lot to the UEP but he is still a greedy snake.

Anonymous said...

If the UEP is disolved, the Warrenites will just turn their deeds to him anyway, but if maintained will either be told to move by (their) powers that be, or will opt to stay of their own accord. (nowhere else to go)

Anonymous said...

Hey Keep Sweet Eldorado Stg what wrong with having pink dresses and computers?

mugwump said...

I don't have a dog in this fight.

Think about this: If the UEP could help stabalize the current situation, and if neutral directors can be put in charge, then those directors can make an effort to see that families keep their homes, and are elegible to re-gain some of their losses. Most important, faze out FLDS as the controlling arm of the corporation and then allow UEP to become somewhat of a mutual fund. It could help ease the pains associated with becoming old and destitute.

This is going to sound terribly Republican but, why couldn't the UEP serve as a private investment accounts for those families who were responsible for establishing the fund and more recent contributors becoming members of the coorporation holding voting shares of stock. The numbers of shares of stock could be reflected porportionatly to that particular family's original investment in UEP.

Continuing control by church officials will only compound your problems. They hear their own thoughts, announce those thoughts as god's commandment and continue to bleed the congregation and to "bleed the beast." I don't know about you but I have about run out of blood.

Anonymous said...

I hold free and clear title to a modular home on UEP land. I OWN IT, I pay the Arizona taxes and home owners insurance. While on vacation, our home (locked and boarded up) was broken into, our personal items removed and scattered to the four winds, and someone else was moved in. My family and I never returned to seek redress for this crime against us, after all the local police would never help one who knows Warren as the master deceiver he really is. An effort to distract me from taking immediate legal action came in the form of a cash offer for the home by the new occupant. This dragged on for almost a year and he decided he would never pay because... "you havn't paid taxes to the UEP, you don't own this home." This devistated my family and we want justice. If Warren wants me off UEP land than give me a home elsewhere and don't steal my house from me, or anyone else. You didn't build it I did! People who commit these crimes are thieves and liars and I want the crooks to pay for this horrible injustice. Who can help me?!

GBNF said...

Dissolve it!
It was meant to be Utopia. It obviously is not. The little experiment did not work. It's time to grow up and merge into the real world.

Anonymous said...

The UEP can never be governed on principles different than the ones under which it was created. Why do you think it is falling apart now? The spirit of the document is completely undone and violated by Warren's administration.

The document itself was set up to be a "religious and charitable" administration of the land and property under the church. Where the church cannot contribute and control the UEP, it MUST be dissolved. Never in a million years can a secular board govern a religious trust.

Anonymous said...

Mugwump: Neutral directors is the only way the UEP can function. But I doubt if any can be talked into it. It's going to be very chatoic after the new trustees start making new rules. If the FLDS have votes or are trustees, then Warren, who most of them worship, will still control the UEP.

It doesn't matter who the trustees are, if Warren tells one of his faithful to move out of their house then they will go. You can't help people who don't want help. The FLDS are like suicide bombers in a way...they don't act normal or predictable. They have never owned their own land or house and they have always gone to Warren or the previous prophets for guidance when making big decisions like what type of business to start, which brand of car to buy, or whether to use paper or plastic. They have always had the "prophet crutch" so they are not used to making their own decisions.

Anon 7:30 is a good example of this indecision. Call a lawyer. Call the newspaper. Call a press conference. Make a big stink. File a lawsuit. Either AG in Utah or Arizona would love something like this. Or wait for the new trustees to be announced so you can ask them if you can take your property from their property. Just hope one of the new trustees isn't a relative of the current occupants of your house...you may not get it back.

I think the UEP will be inundated with lawsuits in the next few years, so you better get yours in first.

LTG

Richard Rulon ALLRED C.P.A. said...

LTG,You are so right.If trustees are voted on,The Board will look just like it always has,Warren"Flds-ProphetGod"at top,Throw in a handful of vengeful apostates{many of whom have been wronged grieviously}all with plenty of axes to grind,And mix it up.Oh It will take years and decades just to get depositions.Warren will still pull all the strings,even from prison.This has just been the Dept,of Justice little joke on us poor Creekers.Warren and his cronies cronies have Eldorado"Humting retreat"!What do we have ?notthing as usual























































































































































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Did we wind up with?

GBNF said...

richard rulon allred c.p.a.

What is up with the spaces,ones,and g? Are you drinking or smoking the California Pot? What did you wind up with?

Faithful Woman said...

To make a claim on your property you have to file it with the court. I believe they said that the claim has to be in the state the property is in.

It is a big "omlet" and won't be quickly resolved but an effort is being made to be as fair as possible. Still, there is no pleasing all of us all the time.

Sounds like even those with current life estate, including me, have to submit their claim.

Those who have built their own homes and still live in them will be the easiest fix, but no properties will be awarded without court consent. And there are few of those left, thanks warren. (disgusted face here)

Hearing to consider trustees is the 21st, 10am in SLC.

Richard Rulon Allred said...

GBNF: A Hangover!!!!

Fried Female said...

Richard Rulon Allred:
Is that your real name? And who is your father?

Richard Rulon Allred said...

Its Not my real name.just my blog moniker.My father is/was?named Barlow.

mugwump said...

gbnf: 7/8/ 1:46

LTG 11:07

Disolve. If both of you are right, and I can't find fault in your logic. It ain't Utopia! From other contributors I believe LTG is absolutely accurate in assessment of the situation.

I still don't have a dog in this fight. Those of you who have lost your homes and who don't follow Jeffs should get first priority.

David Alread, Warren Jeffs et al have spend "MILLIONS" developing YFZ Ranch. Drove by there yesterday, clouds of dust were flying. I'll bet any balance of the funds are off-shore or in Switzerland.

Sixteenth Son said...

Richard Rulon Allred C.P.A.?Real name Barlow?is your
mom married to your moniker's names
sake?Are you one of Uncle Louis' sons?I am Truman's son,and I would appreciate hearing from you.

Barlow Girl said...

Which one of Truman's sons are you? Just some initials would do. I only ask because I would like to be in contact with some of my relatives. I REALLY miss them!!!

Sixteenth Son said...

Barlow Girl,I am JARED!How can I contact you ?Are you still in Colorado city?I would love to hear from you.
Jared Barlow

Anonymous said...

yes. let's keep the UEP. Idid live on UEP land but have since moved. I still care about what happens to it, and to my relatives that live there. Many very good, hard-working people are still there trying to make a living and minding their own business.I'd like to see a board of trustees voted in that would truly have the interest of the common folk at heart, and who value the intent and purpose of the original trust.

Anonymous said...

Hey Barlow Relatives: Hello! And it's good to hear from you, whoever you are. I wish I could have you say " Hello" to my uncles for me, but they probably wouldn't be interested.(judging off fo the way my father acts towards me) But that doesn't matter. I still love and care about him and his brothers and hope the best for them wherever they are.

onthestreet said...

GBNF (short for gabbin enough) said...
Dissolve it!
It was meant to be Utopia. It obviously is not. The little experiment did not work. It's time to grow up and merge into the real world. 7/08/2005 10:28 PM

STREET'S Reply: Ahhh, but it did and DOES work, now in Texas, and still in the hearts and lives of many. WRONG YOU ARE. God's experiments do not fail. Man fails, and gets his tit in a wringer, and gets cast off.

Yes, it is certainly time for YOU to grow up, but no time on earth or in eternity will accomplish it for you, because YOU have merged with the "real," REAL, wicked world.

onthestreet said...

BARLOW GIRL AND 16TH SON"

Ahhh, cat meats dog, and what kind of clutter would you get from that? You two would do quite well to stick to your own knitting, repenting from afar, and staying in the Lord, rather than seeking out fellow cast-offs.

What do you say, kids? Are ye goats, or children of God?

ATAR_i said...

OTS - if you are an example of how a righteous man acts - you make it very unappealing.

But - since I have seen righteous, I'm not fooled - and I know in a truly righteous man does not act and speak as you.

Anonymous said...

What any Barlow does is none of your damn busniness OnTheStreet!
WE Dont Worship your EVIL SICK FALSE PIMP-GOD{Warren Steed Jeffs}

Faithful Woman said...

Truman doesn't have a Jarred. Are you louis' son?

onthestreet said...

Anonymous 10:42: So Right. Each have their own agency. My last post was not for rebels, but for one who may be teetering on a deadly ledge, wanting to do right.

As far as your "EVIL, SICK, FALSE PIMP GOD," you describe to the tee the devil that you worship. God is none of that and has nothing in you, but everything on you.

By the way, I notice that when the young receive good advice, that you curse and gnash your teeth, very demon-like, calling it "none of my damn business." What is God's business in saving souls from the world and the likes of you, is the business of every true brother and sister.

Anonymous said...

Save the trust and put Winston back on it. At least then no one would have to be with out their home, he wouldn't kick anyone out!

Anonymous said...

Seventeenth Son, So,Yes Aunt Lori ,I am Uncle Louis'Jarred.This street really creeps me out.I am writing from My cousins P.C.There are two sixteenth sons on blog.Trumans and Louis sons.

Faithful Woman said...

? Jarred? did you get kicked? can't really fathom that

But then there were a lot of good men kicked for ......... who knows

Anonymous said...

Yes! Save the UEP and make Uncle Wink a trustee. He would at least try to be fair.

barlow girl said...

Sixteenth Son, you can contact me at motherbuff@hotmail.com. No, I'm not in Colorado City. If you're Truman's son, you're my cousin. I'd love to hear from you!!

onthestreet said...

Lookout, it's mother in the buff.

Anonymous said...

Street, why were you kicked out? What was your "sin"? Confess.

(Was it something related to your "mother-buff" comment?)

rumor-has-it said...

To whoever said "Neutral directors is the only way the UEP can function."

Take this into consideration: Anyone who has not been apart of the UEP would not be able to understand the culture or the intent.

First you must acknowledge there is a problem. Second you must own the problem in order to solve it.

Those who are "out" know there is a problem. Those who are "in" don't have a problem, (until they are out) The "outs" still have family in. They would make the best decisions even if they were wronged or not; because a committee balances out each other.
The people listed as trustees are VOLUNTEER. They are doing it for the right reasons. And they would have a four or five year term and then be replaced.

Anonymous said...

Donald B. Cox, James N. Pipkin, and Merrill Harker

Come on these guys have been gone for twenty years. What some jerks to get in the way . Remove your petition. you are in the way. You are not helping solve the problem for the right reason. Are your people going to VOLUNTEER as trustees?

U.E.P. dweller said...

Only "Outside" people with no relatives in U.E.P should be considered for trustees.The Centenial Park Crowd are just looking to cash in on a bad situation,and maybe for a little payback.They were treated very badly by Uncle Rulon and Sammy Barlow.But revenge should not be a qualification,for a trustee,I would feel much safer living on U.E.P with some Gentile Trustees,who are wealthy enough not to be intimidated by the locals,Or some Naylor Group or Blackmore Group Trustees who have have no axe to grind with with the FLDS people.The alledged meeting was just a sting operation,by the Mohave County Sheriff to catch the Warrenites with underage wives,and fooled no-one least of all us.

Anonymous said...

Yeah!?! Should we let the Christians LIVE??!? Or shall we feed 'em to the lions? (permit me a cruel chuckle...heh,heh,..)......"And Jesus said unto them...Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..."
I can't believe I'm reading this bull right here in the U.S.of A.! Watch out, fellow Americans! Our VOTES affect ALL!

onthestreet said...

STREET SAID (7/07/2005 1:58 PM):

Save, dissolve, regardless. Whatever they all do, it'll be the same still, having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof. Bleed the beast, or let the beast lap the blood. No matter.

This may warrant some perspective:

"That moment you reject anything that comes from God, the devil takes power."

All those moments that counselors of the Prophet and others over the years rejected the suggestion of the Prophet, the devil whittled some more.

That moment that the Prophet Warren Jeffs told the people: "You people are not worthy of a prophet," it seems to me that moment the UEP was turned over to the devil, lock, stock, and barrel.

Anonymous said...

Maybe that was because Warren Jeffs was NO prophet, so he wasn't worthy either.

onthestreet said...

Ahh, back to the classic question: Who's the prophet, and whose right is it to rule. And around and around we go. . . That's been the big question of all mankind since before the earth was created.

Anonymous said...

and you know this how street?

Name

onthestreet said...

Yes, from the revelations of God, current revelation, here and now. I could tell it, and the world would never stop vomiting, for their little tummies cannot handle the meat, you see.

You're all still stuck on the nipple,and other little nick-nacks.

ATAR_i said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ATAR_i said...

OTS you're a pretty phallic fellow.

Anonymous said...

Why did someone have an axe to grind with Richard Holm?

Anonymous said...

c'mon steet; you must get your revelations from the same dark sources as your profit. Maybe the both of you should begin cutting yourselves, while you howl to your dog(Baal). Ooops; sounds kinda like a Bible story. Perhaps all the while you two are yelping, "Elijah" will come and get the job done.

Faithful Woman said...

The question of who's right it is to rule only comes from those who want to dominate their fellow man into submission.