Wednesday, June 15, 2005

The News in the News!

I promise this will be short! The press has gone wild since the LA Times added its story to the hundreds already out there. I am getting nearly a dozen stories aday sent to me. People Magazine, along with numerous other media sources are looking for that story to hang their hat on. There are so many angles that a niche is not hard to find.

Several have asked me to forward stories and rather than repeat this process 100 times, posting these links seems easiest. You may wish to discuss some stories here or simply allow this to be a location that lists them.

http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?nid=5&sid=212178

Quotes;
Warren Jeffs: "You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth or rude and filthy. Uncomely, disagreeable, and low in their habits. Wild."
As his father weakened with old age, Warren began asserting power in ways that made some followers uncomfortable.
Anonymous Former Member: “Very bizarre, very bizarre and fanatical.”
He ordered kids out of public schools and forbid contact with outsiders or outside media.
Richard Holm, Former Jeffs Follower: "He’s so driven, so supercharged with the idea that he's got to purify a people and purify himself that I think he borders on insanity in many cases."
He consolidated power, ousting some of the old guard, reassigning families of the unfaithful.
Dan Fischer, M.D., Former Polygamist: "On a monthly basis multiple families are being destroyed. Children wake up finding they have a new daddy, finding that they have new brothers and sisters."
It wasn't long before the fractures broke into the open.
Ross Chatwin, Ousted Member: "This Hitler-like dictator has got to be stopped before he ruins us all and this beautiful town."

107 comments:

Men In Black said...

From the BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4091354.stm

A polygamous sect in a remote part of the US is under the spotlight after its reclusive leader was indicted on charges of arranging the marriage of an underage girl and a 28-year-old man who was already married.

Men In Black said...

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/0614polygamy14.html

Where's leader of polygamous sect?
Jeffs last seen in Nevada; law officers wary

Mark Shaffer
Republic Flagstaff Bureau
Jun. 14, 2005 12:00 AM

Men In Black said...

http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/1629606.html

West Texas Sheriff Doesn’t Plan To Raid Polygamist Compound

A grand jury indicted Jeffs Friday on charges of sexual conduct with a minor and conspiracy to commit sexual conduct with a minor.

If convicted, Jeffs would face a prison sentence ranging from four months to two years.

Men In Black said...

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/state/article/0,1299,DRMN_21_3853512,00.html

Polygamist charged in sex case
Jeffs leads sect that is putting together Colorado compound

By Gwen Florio, Rocky Mountain News
June 14, 2005

COLORADO CITY, Ariz. - The reclusive leader of a breakaway polygamist branch of Mormonism - whose members are building a compound in southwestern Colorado - has been charged with felony child sex abuse.

Authorities in Arizona last week indicted Warren Jeffs, 49, for allegedly arranging the "celestial" marriage in 2002 of a 16-year-old girl to a married man at least 10 years older.

Men In Black said...

The Press Went Crazy after this one!

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-lostboys13jun13,1,1515748.story?coll=la-headlines-nation&ctrack=2&cset=true

Lost to the Only Life They Knew
Officials say more than 400 teenage boys have fled or been driven from a polygamous sect.

By David Kelly, Times Staff Writer


ST. GEORGE, Utah — Abandoned by his family, faith and community, Gideon Barlow arrived here an orphan from another world.

Men In Black said...

UK Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1505997,00.html

The lost boys, thrown out of US sect so that older men can marry more wives

Julian Borger in Washington
Tuesday June 14, 2005
The Guardian

Men In Black said...

There is a much, much, broader issue here, Warren Jeffs is a speck of sand in a Microcosm of abuses. This is about absolute power and control of women and it splashed onto US soil, but involves exploitation at levels unimagineable. If women were the leadership of such movements, it no doubt would be different!


http://www.pressbox.co.uk/detailed/29932.html

Marriage Is Still Causing Discrimination To Women
Added : ( May 2005 )

Marriage Is Still Causing Discrimination To Women

Kamala Sarup

Many countries set a lower minimum age of marriage for females than for males. There are number of females for insisting that girls not be married until they reach sufficient age to to make an informed choice. The first is as a matter of basic human right, no person should under take such a momentous act without full knowledge of its import, and no child can understand the full social and physical import, and no child can understand the full social and physical import of marriage.

While marriage is almost universal for both men and women, men retain much greater power while searching for a spouse. A recognition of women's lack of power in marriage decisions is important from another perspective.

Statistics show that 18 percent of the girls in Asia, 16 percent in Africa and 8 percent in Latin America married by the age of 14. According to the progress of Nation reports " In 6 of the 21 sub-Saharan African countries surveyed, the average age of marriage was less than 18. In Bangladesh, Guinea, Mali, Niger and Yeman more than half of the young women interviewed were married by the time they were 16 years old. The highly gender discrimination Hindu marriage law permitted the marriage of a very young girls and a very old man.

Even in South Asia women are entitled to boldly integrity, within this principle, violence against women, forced early marriage and harmful practices are in practices. Statistics show that in Bangladesh 4 percent of girls are married before the age of 14. In Bhutan 4 percent, Maldives 12 percent, Nepal 40 percent Pakistan 4 percent and in Sri Lanka 0.2 percent. it is stated that nearly 7 percent of girls were found to be married before reaching the age of 10.

Men In Black said...

Definitions of microcosm

I hate defending my point, but I can hear OTS Thinking! Warren and all of us that think to much of ourselves or of self importance, become like Warren. We are all specks of sand in a broader universe. Abuses in the FLDS are connected to society here (in the US) and abroad! Exploitation and inequity toward women and children, sometimes men, exists outside of what we discuss as singular here.

These stories of abuse as reported in the news may extend beyond, the FLDS alone. See I'm agreeing that the problem extends into society at large, but because there is evidense here, we are here.

[from Greek mikro little + kosmos world] A little world; applied to man or any other being considered as a miniature copy of the universe or macrocosm. The destiny and origin of man and the universe are said to be coeval, which is the key to understanding and the basis of practical occultism. Man, as a microcosm, is a storehouse of universal types, not merely as a whole, all parts of his constitution included, but any part of his constitution such as his physical body is itself a microcosm. The decad is applicable in each case, as also septenary and duodenary

Designation for structures occupying extremely small volumes of our universe; the world inside the atom, and therefore the interior of ; the world of elementary particles and their interactions.


That Part of the Universe Contained Within a Given System

A tiny, often microscopic segment of an ecosystem represented by a specialized community of organisms. (The organisms in a patch of moss on a rock face.)

The little universe, or man manifesting through his body, the physical body

a smaller version or “little world"

A laboratory model of a natural Ecosystem in which certain environmental variables can be manipulated to observe the response. The model test results are not always applicable to an actual ecosystem because the microcosm is, of necessity, a simplified collection of selected physical, chemical, and biological ecosystem components.

Small order representing a larger, miniature model; man as a miniature cosmos.

The individual world or universe of man.

I HOPE THE FAITHFUL DO NOT USE THE STATISTICS ABOVE, TO RATIONALIZE THE EARLY AGE OF CONSENT, TO JUSTIFY SUCH IN THEIR OWN PRACTISES! THE ARTICLE RECOGNIZES THE INEQUITY OF POWER AND CHOICE, AND IS ACTUALLY A NEGATIVE MODEL, NOT ONE TO BE CITED AND ADMIRED. hint...hint....

onthestreet said...

Men In Black said...
There is a much, much, broader issue here, Warren Jeffs is a speck of sand in a Microcosm of abuses. 6/15/2005 12:29 PM

STREET's Reply: Warren Jeffs is as the sand upon the seashore, in the macrocosm of righting those abuses.

onthestreet said...

onthestreet said...
ADMIN:

I TRIED TO MAKE MY NEW THREAD AGAIN. NO GREEN PLUS. TELL YOU WHAT, I WON'T POST THIS IN ALL THE TREADS, BUT I DO NEED TO GET YOUR ATTENTION SOMEHOW. I'LL LIMIT MYSELF TO EVERY OTHER THREAD.

THAT BETTER? HELL, TELL ME WHAT'S UP.

I'm trying to create my own thread on my own, so I can edit my thread as needed. I emailed you about this over a week ago, but no response. So I posted my request on several threads. Still no response. Did you die, are you okay?

Now I know that you emailed me back, and this is what you said:

Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 09:11:03 -0500
From: "Texas Polygamy"
Contact Details
Subject: Re: STREET

Sorry, only admn...or users with admin authority can delete posts. There is no need to copy and paste old posts simply to keep them at the top. If they are old posts, let them cycle off to the archives.
Weblog Admin

ADMIN: I'm not trying to "keep posts on top. How vain is that? Just need to be able to edit my own thread, you see?

Now, I clicked on the red blog logo in the upper left corner of the blog page, and got the next page, but there was no green plus sign. So I need admin authority to edit my own thread, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. How about it?

Hey, maybe you don't read all the threads, I don't know. Tell you what: I'll post this request on all the threads, so you'll see it.

Thank you Sir.
Street

6/14/2005 7:33 PM

Anonymous said...

Oh my, did OTS curse???????????? What is the world coming to??

Men In Black said...

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0615PolygamyPower15-ON.html

Power plant that served Colorado City-Hildale will be closed

Associated Press
Jun. 15, 2005 08:55 AM

The Twin City power plant, which formerly provided power for the twin polygamist communities of Colorado City, Ariz., and Hildale, Utah, will close July 1.

Power manager Lorin Fischer said the wholesale price of natural gas, which fuels the plant, has gone from $1.40 per decatherm when the plant opened in January 1997 to $6.50 per decatherm.

"We lost functionality at $2.50," Fischer told the Hildale City Council on Tuesday. "We are planning on mothballing the plant."

Anonymous said...

yES, SOON YOU PEOPLE WILL HAVE YOUR GLORY DAY. THIS ISOLATED, UNDERPRIVLAGED, DEPRIVED COMMUNITY WILL BE LIKE THEY WERE IN NINETEEN FIFTY THREE, THEN THE GOVERNMENT CAN COME IN WITH THERE COP'S AND SIREN'S AWAILING AND SHOOT US ALL. TOO MANY OF US TO PUT IN JAIL, OR HOUSE IN PHEONIX. THE POOR PEOPLE OUT SIDE OF OUR DISTRICT MIGHT HAVE TO PAY A PENNY ON OUR TAX, AND LIERS WILL NOT HAVE ANY MORE GLORY TO LOOK PRETTY ON T.V. WHAT IS UP?

onthestreet said...

Hey Sis, they're shooting themselves, and not just in the foot. All we can do is pray for them, and ask the Father to forgive them, how and when he might. The dragon knows that his end has come, so he rageth:

"Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them (the saints will be lifted into heaven, just not how the vain world supposes),
Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and sea (M & Y)! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time." (Rev. 12:12

Men In Black said...

STREET's Reply: Warren Jeffs is as the sand upon the seashore, in the macrocosm of righting those abuses.

Get your magnifying glass out, try not to step on him and for goddness sake help authorities find that speck you call Warren. I guess thats why no one can find him. If he is as all the sand on the shore, his ego and your's is huge, either he or you should be easy to find if your version was true, though in common, you both seem to hide!

Men In Black said...

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0615Polygamy15-ON.html





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Arizona prosecutor promises more sex-crimes prosecutions

Associated Press
Jun. 15, 2005 08:55 AM

KINGMAN - A prosecutor promises more sex-crimes prosecutions involving men in the northern Arizona polygamous community of Colorado City.

Targeted will be men who have sex with underage girls they've taken in plural marriages.

Mohave County Attorney Matt Smith told county supervisors yesterday that his office has indicted two other Colorado City men in addition to polygamous church leader Warren Jeffs and an unnamed co-defendant.

Men In Black said...

Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and sea (M & Y)! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time." (Rev. 12:12
Ah... Streety Why do you retreat to the scriptures???

Rev. 12:12 from the original greek;
Therefore, rejoice, Heavens! and THOSE who TABERNACLE in them, Woe to the EARTH and to the SEA! Because the ENEMY is gone down to you, having great Wrath, knowing That he has a Short Season."
Verse 13: And when the DRAGON saw That he was cast to the EARTH, he pursued the WOMAN who brought forth the MALE child.
Verse 14: And there were given to the WOMAN the TWO Wings of the GREAT EAGLE, that she might fly into the DESERT, into her PLACE, that she should be nourished there a Season, and Seasons, and half a Season, from the Face of the SERPENT.

I can read on? The Old Testament was pretty much written in Hebrew, the New in Greek. Most newer religions used the King James version to develope and write a doctrine, that at times was later challenged by the translations from Greek to Latin, followed by Latin to King James English.

I think if you want to debate the meaning of scripture, I should offer you time to purchased both the Hebrew and Greek text, then you and I can go at it. I think you will find that ninor words create very different meanings!

Hell had 3 words to discribe it which were Hades, She'Ol & Gehenna

Hades (Greek: ᾍδης - Hadēs or Ἅιδης - Háidēs) ("unseen") means both the ancient Greek abode of the dead and the god of that underworld. The word originally referred to just the god; haidou, its genitive, was short for "the house of Hades", and eventually the nominative, too, came to designate the abode of the dead. (A related Hebrew word, She'Ol, for the abode of the dead also meant literally "unseen.")

Usage;
Hebrew word she'ol and the Greek word 'adeV (Hades). In the Bible, the King James Version translates the Hebrew word she'ol "hell" thirty-one times, "grave" 30 times, and "pit" three times. In the New Testament, the King James Version translates the Greek word 'adeV "hell" all eleven times that it appears -- Matthew 11:23; 16:18; Luke 10:15; 16:23; Acts 2:27, 31; and Revelation 1:18; 6:8; 20:13, 14. The Catholic Douay Version translates she'ol all sixty four times as "hell" in the Old Testament.

USAGES;
Gehenna & tartaroo

Gehenna is the Greek form of two Hebrew words ge hinnom meaning “valley of Hinnom.” The term originally referred to a ravine on the south side of Jerusalem where pagan deities were worshiped (2 Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:32; 2 Chron. 28:3; 33:6). It became a garbage dump and a place of abomination where fire burned continuously (2 Kings 23:10; compare Matt. 18:9; Mark 9:43, 45, 47; Jas. 3:6). Gehenna became synonymous with “a place of burning.”

One time the Greek word tartaroo “cast into hell” appears in the New Testament (2 Pet. 2:4). The word appears in classical Greek to refer to a subterranean region, doleful and dark, regarded by the ancient Greeks as the abode of the wicked dead. It was thought of as a place of punishment. In the sole use of the word in the New Testament it refers to the place of punishment for rebellious angels.

STREETY Lets you and I debate what that Bible of yours really says.....

Anonymous said...

I sure hope AZ is looking into John Stewart and Virginia's relationship. She was a step-daughter by a second marriage and VERY young, as in yonger than 16. It was such a SECRET in their family. Personally, the situation made me SICK. He was a school teacher but I don't know what he does now.

Anonymous said...

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0615Polygamy15-ON.html

Smith also said his office would seek indictments against as many as 15 additional men over the next six weeks.

Jeffs heads the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, most of whose members live in Colorado City and neighboring Hildale, Utah.

Last Thursday, a Mohave County grand jury indicted Jeffs on charges of sexual conduct with a minor and conspiracy to commit sexual conduct with a minor.


ITS HIGH TIME OTHERS COME FORWARD TO TURN STATES EVIDENSE, LEST SOMEONE ELSE IS TELLING AUTHORITIES ON YOU. BETTER YOU BE TELLING YOUR STORY, THAN SOMEONE WHO MAY NOT LIKE YOU!

Anonymous said...

You are right, street. The hour is at hand. The sheaves are being bound. The rightouse will prevail.

Men In Black said...

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=851753&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312



Hundreds of 'Lost Boys' Expelled by Polygamist Community

June 15, 2005 -- At least 400 teenage boys have fled or have been kicked out of their communities along the Utah-Arizona border, forbidden from returning home.

Known as the "Lost Boys," they once belonged to a secretive sect known as the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (FLDS), which broke from the Mormon Church because its members wanted to practice polygamy.

Men In Black said...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20050615-1357-wst-prosecutingpolygamy.html

Anti-polygamy group urges more Utah, Arizona prosecutions

By Paul Foy
ASSOCIATED PRESS

1:57 p.m. June 15, 2005

SALT LAKE CITY – Rachael Strong was 18 and "too scared to resist" a marriage to a polygamist in his 60s who scheduled nights with his 17 wives on a calendar and ordered them to use birth control.
Strong broke away from the polygamous sect and said she can provide evidence of rape and bigamy at The True and Living Church in Manti, Utah – but she says authorities won't listen.

"Here I am," the 20-year-old Strong declared Wednesday at the Utah Capitol, in a lobby two floors under Attorney General Mark Shurtleff's office. "For over six months I've been willing to testify."

Strong made her appearance as an anti-polygamy group accused authorities of going only after the most visible polygamous leaders and ignoring the vast majority of cases of child abuse, incest and bigamy in secret societies throughout Utah and Arizona.

Tapestry Against Polygamy, which helps women escape polygamous homes with their children, said last week's felony indictment in Arizona of Fundamental Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints President Warren Jeffs, who is still a fugitive, underscored the gulf that leaves many other polygamy victims without the support of law enforcement.

"It's pathetic what's going on without (help

Anonymous said...

Well, I hope that the great states of utah and arizonia will have as much compassion on these married men, as they did on the men that they knew was mollesting there daughters and just gave them a slap on the wrist: OR IS IT THAT WE LIVE IN A COUNTRY THAT YOU CAN DO ANYTHING BUT MARRY A GIRL AND TAKE CARE OF HER? LETS SEE, DISTRICT ATTORNEYS::::: AND MAYBE YOU COULD REDUCE THE SENTANCE ON THE RETARDED WOMEN THAT WERE MOLESTED, BEATEN, DRUGGED, JAILED, AND SCAMMED. OH, BUT THEN "THE COUNTY HAD A CLAIM. JUST ANOTHER NUMBER SO THE COUNTY HAD A CLAIM."

Men In Black said...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050616.wxbcboun16/BNStory/National/

Leader of B.C. sect flees in polygamy case

U.S. prosecutors have charged him with arranging a marriage between a teenaged girl and a married man

By JANE ARMSTRONG

Thursday, June 16, 2005 Updated at 5:29 AM EDT

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

Vancouver — The reclusive leader of a Utah-based sect that broke away from the Mormons -- and has a large colony in British Columbia -- is now a fugitive after U.S. prosecutors charged him with arranging a marriage between a teenaged girl and a married man.

The arrest warrant for Warren Jeffs, president of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, has raised fears of a violent showdown between authorities and the volatile, 49-year-old leader reminiscent of the deadly 1993 standoff at Waco, Tex.

OTS Are we headed to hell or just a place where they burned old refuge? Hell is made up in the minds of men, it served to intimidate the masses, no more.

Gehenna is the Greek form of two Hebrew words ge hinnom meaning “valley of Hinnom.” The term originally referred to a ravine on the south side of Jerusalem where pagan deities were worshiped (2 Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:32; 2 Chron. 28:3; 33:6). It became a garbage dump and a place of abomination where fire burned continuously (2 Kings 23:10; compare Matt. 18:9; Mark 9:43, 45, 47; Jas. 3:6). Gehenna became synonymous with “a place of burning.”

Men In Black said...

Anonymous said...
Well, I hope that the great states of utah and arizonia will have as much compassion on these married men, as they did on the men that they knew was mollesting there daughters
6/15/2005 11:47 PM

The point made, was to come forward now with what you know. Delaying testimony until the knock is at your door becomes a day late and a dollar short! If there is a story to be told, those who took under age brides need to be the one to tell their own story. Its hard to have sympathy, with years of advance warning suggesting that a declaration was needed.

Go ahead put it off, but its not an issue that is going away. If your wives are over 18 today, its not likely a huge issue. If they chose to leave it could become a rekindled issue. If they are underage now, then under the law, it is what it is.

I 'M JUST SAYING, BE HONEST AND I.D. YOUR SITUATION TO THE LOCAL AUTHORITIES, LIVE IN "LIGHT & TRUTH" BEING HONEST ABOUT YOUR LIFE. IF YOUR PLACEMENT WAS REQUIRED BY WARREN, STATE IT AS SO. WHAT OCCURED DECADES PAST IS LIKELY A NON ISSUE. DON'T TURN THIS INTO MORE THAN IT IS!

Men In Black said...

How honest is it, to collect welfare asthough these were unwed mothers, when we, you know whom the biological fathers are? OTS look into yourself and remember the lies you defended when your perception of judgement day comes.

Do you understand the seperation of truth from a lie or is all justified if it protects belief? Then to what extreme beyond a lie can anyone go to preserve belief over truth?

FROM STORY QUOTES
The B.C. probe is also looking at complaints that racism is taught at the provincially funded schools and plural wives say they are single mothers so that they can collect welfare

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050616.wxbcboun16/BNStory/National/

Investigations will yield hard facts, what will history tell us of misused funds? Lest not forget what we know today about the Colorado City school District now vs 5 years ago. Would you today justify the SUV's, district credit cards, the airplane and if you would, then your truth might not be measured next to ours.

Men In Black said...

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=851753&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

"These guys know that to continue to live polygamy — and at the level it's gone to the last few years, with a few men having 10, 20, upwards of 70, 80 wives — it's obvious that a number of boys have to go," said Dr. Dan Fischer, a former fundamentalist Mormon.

"In order to exist in a polygamist society you have to have more women to men, your ratio of women to men has to be greater," said Tom Sam Sneed, one of the many "Lost Boys" who have had to find new homes.

Sneed found a job and a place to live with the help of best-selling author Jon Krakauer, who wrote "Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith," a book about fundamentalist Mormons.

Men In Black said...

http://www.kpho.com/Global/story.asp?S=3484180

SALT LAKE CITY A judge today agreed to bar polygamist leader Warren Jeffs from selling off assets of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

The request was made by the Utah Attorney General's Office.

Several pieces of trust property were sold last year.

The Utah Attorney General's office says some church members could be at risk of losing their homes because Jeffs is not contesting two lawsuits. The trust assets could be taken by the courts.

La Bona said...

A divine forum where laws, standards, values and code of ethic on morality, lifestyle, business and just about anything else related to our life will be published, discussed and eventually endorsed by God and His Children to be observed as the way of life.

Hooray ... God finally go online!
- a very very excited faithful -

Faitfully yours,
La Bona
Divine Representative
Chapter Planet Earth

ATAR_i said...

la bona - you are a calvanist I take it?

Your valediction - can you confirm your meaning?

Are you stating you are representing heaven by your actions here on earth - or are you proclaiming you are a deity from heaven (you never know on this site).

The question is not meant to be offensive, just exploratory.

onthestreet said...

Speaking of "diety" and man or woman becoming gods and godesses through spiritual and plural marriage, it seems you've pretty well denied the veracity of all that, Atar. Well, YOU DENY YOURSELF: "Jerahmeel had ANOTHER WIFE, ATARAH by name." (I Chron. 2:26).

Also, the Hebrew definition for "Atar" is: "To crown and encircle (with many souls in one family), through that high lifestyle that leads to godhood.
Atarah: An Israelitess (I Chron. 2:26,54; Nu.32:3,34; Jos.16:2,7; 18:3).

Atargatis: A Syrian godess represented by the body of a fish, for food or thanksgiving. So if "Atar" is to encircle, "Atar-gatis or gratius" is to encircle with thanksgiving.

You see, "Atar" historically is both a polygamist and godess, both of which you deny. YOU DENY YOURSELF!

onthestreet said...

STREETY Lets you and I debate what that Bible of yours really says.....
6/15/2005 5:35 PM

MIB: You seem to be more focused on debating Hell and skirting the crucial qualifying traits for heaven. I am more interested in heaven, and skirting hell. I don't think there's much of a fit here.

Men In Black said...

http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_167182235.html

Former Trustee Lauds Efforts To Protect FLDS Trust

A former high-ranking member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints said Thursday he’s siding with the state of Utah in a battle to strip reclusive leader Warren Jeffs of authority over church assets.

“Something has to be done to protect the beneficiaries of the trust,” said Winston Blackmore, subpoenaed for the hearing over the United Effort Plan Trust because he was once listed as a trustee.

Blackmore has fled the southern Utah polygamous enclave and now runs a Canadian offshoot of the church near Creston, B.C.

Men In Black said...

OTS
You see, "Atar" historically is both a polygamist and godess, both of which you deny. YOU DENY YOURSELF!

6/16/2005 7:31 PM

Whats this you are 2 hours later than me tonight, do you travel too?

onthestreet said...

Men In Black said...
How honest is it, to collect welfare asthough these were unwed mothers, when we, you know whom the biological fathers are? OTS look into yourself and remember the lies you defended when your perception of judgement day comes.

STREET's Reply: MIB, how honest is it to NOT collect welfare as though these were no wives at all. We honor our women, whether you do or not, and everyone knows how the states have (since 1890) chased the FLDS into the wilderness to make a living in barren places. So God feeds his little ones, and if God chooses you use the graces of his state governments to feed the polygamists who honor their wives and children with pure living, and who kick out the rest so they may learn purity without spoiling the wheat, as well as to feed the monogamists who generally do not honor their wives and children with pure living, but teach contraception and abortion and sexual promiscuity in families, now those are LIES, and who's to challenge God! How honest is that!!! Good luck in that endeavor, and remember the lies you defend when actual judgement comes. For God's judgement is not the least less real with peoples' perceptions of it.

Anonymous said...

Why would anyone want to be a polygamus, (other than the reward in heaven) it would be hell on earth to have more than one woman to try to please. Much less have more than one or two children. Children are alot of work. How do they do this?

onthestreet said...

It's simply what you make it. If you're a hellish person, it would indeed be hell on earth. If you're a peaceful person, and care more about your eternal heaven than to call it "other than", then you gain heaven as a child of God.

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God." (Mt. 5:9)

onthestreet said...

"Much less have more than one or two children. Children are alot of work. How do they do this?"

STREET's Reply: God has about 100 BILLION children for this planet alone, and many planets. So why would we want it. To fulfill the commandment: "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Mt.5:48)

It is to become gods. Many people know that as the goal by now, so get over it. And "How do they do this?" We teach them correct principle, and they govern themselves.

ATAR_i said...

Well isn't that just dandy. I chose a name from (where is it actually from - the reference?) something polygamous and I wasn't even trying.

Who knew?

onthestreet said...

Ahhh, my little polygamist godess, it is here: (I Chron. 2:26,54; Nu.32:3,34; Jos.16:2,7; 18:3).

Plus, you'd need access to a good translation text to translate the name into English.

ATAR_i said...

Well, wanna know something even funnier

Look at this I am laughing so hard.

Men In Black said...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5079995,00.html

Group Urges More Polygamy Prosecutions

Friday June 17, 2005 2:01 AM


AP Photo SLC801

By PAUL FOY

Associated Press Writer

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) - A former high-ranking member of a polygamous enclave in southern Utah said Thursday he is siding with the state in a battle to strip reclusive leader Warren Jeffs of authority over church assets.

Winston Blackmore said Jeffs took over the reins of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints after his now-deceased father suffered a debilitating stroke in 1998.

``From that time the whole feeling and vision of what we were doing changed as far as I'm concerned,'' said Blackmore, who now runs a Canadian offshoot of the church in British Columbia.

All the land in the twin border towns of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Ariz., was at one time given to a trust and was intended to benefit all of the group's estimated 6,000 to 10,000 members. No monetary value has been assigned to the trust, although some estimate its value to be near $100 million.

Attorney General Mark Shurtleff's office has sought to take control of the trust, arguing Jeffs has liquidated assets to church insiders at below-market value - to the detriment of lower-level members.

OTS

Am I worse than Winston, are we equal or is he worse because he has rejected a truth, yours?

It has always been unclear to me, though Les Zitting tried to explain it once or twise. He said no matter what I did, he was worse because he rejected the truth or Warren's truth. I as a gentile am just naturally stupid and am judged in a lesser capacity of responsibility, was or is that true, being that I was not raised in this truth?

MIB

Men In Black said...

OTS

How about explaining that doctrine about "God has about 100 BILLION children for this planet alone, and many planets." I've had it told to me before, but I doubt ATAR I has heard it.

There is a very busy God up there making babies in like manner to us and they need what, fleshly bodies down here to occupy those spirits! C'mon you can explain it better than I can.

MIB

Men In Black said...

http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/news/shownews.jsp?content=w061695A

WOW! MacLeans in Canada!

June 16, 2005 - 18:49

Utah judge orders reclusive polygamist not to sell church assets

JENNIFER DOBNER

Blackmore is listed along with Jeffs and others - Truman Barlow, LeRoy Jeffs, William Jessop (aka William Timpson), and James Zitting - as the trustees. But Blackmore says he was served notice in June 2002 that he was being removed as a trustee, although the legal paperwork to complete that action were never filed.

Blackmore said he'd be back in Utah on June 22, the day all six trustees must appear if they want to object to the attorney general's effort to replace them permanently as trustees.

The court granted a temporary restraining order against the six trustees May 27 to prevent them from selling church property. That same day, however, several buildings on trust-owned properties were disassembled and removed.

On Thursday a judge further restricted the trustees' ability to manage the trust by converting that order into a preliminary injunction

OTS

Which one of us is the DRAGON?

Men In Black said...

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3224082

Polygamist sect safe from raid
Sheriff will not invade compound in Texas to arrest leader on Arizona sex-crime charges

Associated Press

SAN ANGELO - A West Texas sheriff says he doesn't intend to raid the Eldorado compound of a polygamist sect to arrest the group's leader, who has been indicted on sex-crime charges in Arizona.

Schleicher County Sheriff David Doran said he will arrest Warren Jeffs on an Arizona warrant if he's pulled over for a traffic violation.

On Friday, an Arizona grand jury indicted Jeffs, 49, on charges of sexual conduct with a minor and conspiracy to commit sexual conduct with a minor. If convicted, he would face a prison sentence ranging from four months to two years.

Anonymous said...

What in the name of Heaven is going on? I can't believe what I am listening to and hearing. Laws against Polygamy,welfare fraud,Tax evasion,sex crimes,hate crimes,wicked people,in polygmous societies. Why all the turmoil? Why does everyone think they are so clean and virtious. Can't people see what is going on? This man Warren Jeffs is as innocent as can be. Lets for fun have 150,000 nonMormon and NonCatholic people move into Utah and Arizona and Vote against The Mormon Church and Catholics Church and not allow them to build anymore Temples in these States. What would they do? Is the popular Vote the only religion there is. Is shirtliff afraid he wont get the popular Vote. Would the Mormon Church or Catholics still build Temples or would they say OK! we won't build any more Temples. I think they would keep building Temples because of integrity and honor to belief in God. So I quess they would get a Cease and Desist Order against them and would confiscat all their property till they stopped and the President of the church or Pope would get a indictment against them. Would going to court solve anything? NO It Would Not!. Lets becareful. Besides Monogamists dont have any welfare fraud,Tax evasion, Sex crimes,or sin of any kind. They are examples of Society.
The Mills of God Grind Slowly
They Grind exceedingly Fine
With Patience He Stands Waiting
With Exactness GRINDS US ALL.
Thanks Sheriff Doran for your Level Head.

ATAR_i said...

I don't think anyone wants to take town a temple.

But I'm suprised that you are suprised to hear about laws against polygamy. That's nothing new, so surprise, is suprising

Laws against fraud (ok that's a given too).

That a church leader is encouraging, perpetrating, and getting his followers involved in crimes, and also making them victims of those crimes, and others as well - That's the suprising part. But not unheard of, warren's not the only fellow in this position to abuse it.

Men In Black said...

http://www.newutah.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=57547&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

Friday, June 17, 2005 - 12:00 AM |

Polygamy call-in

The Daily Herald


Should polygamy

be legalized?

Polygamists are back on law enforcement's radar.

Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff has obtained a court order putting the assets of the Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints in the control of an outside auditor. Shurtleff said he needed to do that to prevent church president Warren Jeffs from liquidating the assets, which include most
of the property in


Hilldale, Utah, and Colorado City, Ariz.

On the Arizona side of the border, Jeffs has been indicted for marrying a 16-year-old girl to a man who already has a wife.

The incidents again raise the question of how Utah should deal with polygamists.

On one hand, polygamy has been illegal in Utah since statehood. The federal government denied Utah admission to the union until polygamy was forever banned by the state constitution. Statehood came six years after the LDS Church officially discontinued the practice.

But neither state law nor religious directives stopped polygamy. Former Mormons who insisted on continuing the practice formed their own sects, such as the United Apostolic Brethren and the FLDS, to carry on the doctrine.

Men In Black said...

http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/state/article/0,1299,DRMN_21_3862250,00.html

Boulder author aims to find sect leader
By Deborah Frazier, Rocky Mountain News
June 17, 2005

Boulder author Jon Krakauer, who wrote a best-seller on a polygamous sect, is actively involved in searching for the group's fugitive leader, law enforcement officials said Thursday.

The offices of the Utah and Arizona attorneys general said Krakauer has continued to follow the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints since the book was published in 2003.

"Krakauer is actively investigating a lot of things, including the whereabouts of Warren Jeffs," said Paul Murphy, spokesman for Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff.

Jeffs, 49, heads the sect that has lived on the Arizona-Utah border for nearly a century. It is sometimes confused with the mainstream Mormon church, which has excommunicated polygamists since 1890.

Krakauer, who wrote Under The Banner of Heaven: A Story Of Violent Faith, a history of Mormon fundamentalism, was unavailable for comment Thursday.

Jeffs, pursued by Arizona and Utah authorities, bought a secluded retreat in southwestern Colorado near Mancos and has established a new community for the sect in West Texas. Jeffs hasn't been seen in public since January, when Krakauer took his picture at the site of the sect's first temple on the West Texas ranch.

"Jon Krakauer did a lot of investigation when he wrote his book and he's kept actively involved," said Gary Engels, a Mohave County, Ariz., sheriff's investigator.

Last week, a Mohave County grand jury indicted Jeffs for allegedly arranging a marriage between a 16-year-old girl and an older married man. A warrant was issued for Jeffs' arrest.

More indictments are expected, said Engels, who grew up in Denver and worked for the Silverthorne Police Department in the 1980s.

Jeffs is also sought in connection with several civil lawsuits in Utah, including one filed by three of his nephews that alleged sexual assault.

Krakauer has helped several "lost boys," teenage males ousted from the sect to ensure that older men can have multiple wives, said Dave Bills, coordinator for the Diversity Foundation near Salt Lake City.

The Diversity Foundation, founded by a former member of the polygamist sect, helps the boys.

"We try to find these kids, find them a place to live and help them with school," said Bills.

Bills said Krakauer has contributed to the foundation and acted as a guardian to one of the boys.

"Krakauer has been looking into this group for a long time. He's very invested in it," said Andrea Esquer, spokeswoman for Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard.

Neither Murphy nor Esquer would comment on Krakauer's part in their investigations.

Krakauer's book drew national attention to the sect's alleged child sexual abuse, spousal abuse and fraud as prosecutors moved against Jeffs.

The arrest warrant for Jeffs has heartened many of the "lost boys" and other young men Jeffs removed from their families, Bills said.

"Their attitudes have changed since the government got on the ball," Bills said. "The boys realize that someone cares."

Men In Black said...

Anonymous said...
What in the name of Heaven is going on? I can't believe what I am listening to and hearing

OTS

Is this one of your friends? Lets talk about Beth and Colleen! What were they 10 & 11 years old? Shall I detail the wedding night here on the blog? If Mary was 12 and 12 is justified, then why ages 10 & 11? Its an interesting story that needs telling, don't you think? Using an older wife to get an erection, because the husband was not aroused by an 11 year old! OTS Why don't you tell the story. I can always tell it later or make needed corrections.

In writing and above, you put age 12 as fair game and welfare fraud as a gift from God. Given you are a product of Warren's teachings, he couldn't hire a PR firm to do the xlint job you are doing for him. Then these anonymous people they too must be agreeing to the same teachings. I can't wait to hear more of why religion should be allowed to take children age 12 and under as sexual partners for breeding purposes. You're already in to deep to stop now, keep explaining it, America and the press need to understand this. They need to understand how wide spread this belief goes. Is it just OTS or everyone raised under the voice of Warren? And we are what the Dragon or Sons of Satan in the last days, because we oppose such pagan rituals?

I just think more and more, that the lack of oversight has gone on to long in these closed communities. The problem is that sanctioned by any leader, civil laws get tossed out. You really believe sex and marriage to a 12 year old is legit, that is what scares us!

Anonymous said...

Jay is there any danger in polygamists,all wives over 18 being prosucuted?I would like to know.?

Men In Black said...

Anonymous said...
Jay is there any danger in polygamists,all wives over 18 being prosucuted?I would like to know.?

6/17/2005 2:50 PM

Only if they chose to leave! Statute of Limitations just like Thomas Green, Thomas Sliwinski and several others including the Manti case now in the news, if the woman wants out, that power to prosecute is in her hands. It sometimes dates from the day of discovery as identified by the LE agency that took the complaint. Personally I don't care what consenting adults do, as long as its not my taxes paying for it.

JB

La Bona said...

What is your view on ABORTION?

While Muslims and Catholics even regard contraceptive evil, Would you like to know what do most people think of these religious taboo?

See it from the divine perspective ... http://divinetalk.blogspot.com/

Anonymous said...

Thanks Jay,This business of underage marriages must stop!While Warren Jeffs is not the only person
responsible,he is the main single
factor in this.This Business of "Bleeding the Beast"must end,as well.If you cant have a pural family,without these practices,Then
no-one needs to have one.

Men In Black said...

Well it appears as though there are smarter people than me out there! OTS being David is considered likely, I concede its time to close dialog with OTS!

What was more interesting was Val Jessops recent date or undate in court Monday. Lost by judgement and default, but threatening a judge? With Spokesman like Ruth Cooke, David Draper and now Val Jessop, Warren has allies that can help him better than any of us could.

When Warren began ousting the faithful, in a few weeks he had called more attendion on himself than all the activist combined, after years of spotlighting this.

Judges tend to get testy when they are threatened, but then most do not seperate the law between what is man verses gods law. More of the floor was just painted, watch out for the sign "Wet Paint"! The corner is closer at hand...

onthestreet said...

Jay, what does "Beswick" mean?
Here, I will help you out:

"Besay" is to be domineering.
"Buws" is to trample, to loathe,
to be polluted.
"Beser" is to be sour,an inmature
unripe grape.

That's "Bes". Now add "Wick(ed)."
Well, you get the point.

How about your given name, Jay? Well, you've heard the phrase, "Dumb as a Jay bird."

Anonymous said...

David Street,You DO NOT Speak for President Warren Jeffs!!In No Way!You were warned to stop!But you payed no heed! A MESSENGER

onthestreet said...

MIB Said:
OTS: Am I worse than Winston, are we equal or is he worse because he has rejected a truth, yours?

It has always been unclear to me, though Les Zitting tried to explain it once or twise. He said no matter what I did, he was worse because he rejected the truth or Warren's truth. I as a gentile am just naturally stupid and am judged in a lesser capacity of responsibility, was or is that true, being that I was not raised in this truth?
MIB 6/16/2005 11:54 PM

STREET's Reply: Les got it right. I inquired about your standing or condition with the Lord. I will share some of it here:

Abysmal Water or Blessing over his receptive element, which tends toward his holding together (union). The waters of his intellect on the surface flow together wherever they can, like all the rivers come together and flow into the ocean. They all yield to one leading authority on earth, he finding in them a compliment of his own nature. Therefore, those who are uncertain gradually join. Whoever comes too late meets with misfortune, for union with this central figure is required, though he be a fugitive and hated of all men. Any who attempts that task without a real calling only makes confusion.

If Jay ever finds that man in his intellect and unites with him, he will be without blame. Thus, in the end, good fortune would come.

Then, I was directed to inquire again: God's judgement over any victory. The wanderer: When a man is a wanderer, he should not be gruff or overbearing. He must be cautious and reserved. In this way, he protects himself from evil. If he is obliging toward others, he wins success.

I am restrained from saying more.

onthestreet said...

Messenger: Who has warned? I would comply with his wishes: What did his father see when he was called into Brother Barlow's office regarding the ministry?

Correct. I do not speak for him.

Anonymous said...

David You will have to go down with
the Wicked Apostates who fought against Pres.Jeffs.These People on this Blog.need no Admonishment.
A MESSENGER

onthestreet said...

MIB said: You seemed to of missed STREETY'S post above! That marrying little girls age 12 is OK, because he believes inspite of its absence in the Greek Bible, that Marry the mother of Jesus was 12 years old in his version. We live in a society where adults having sex, intercourse, with a 12 year old is illegal. Passing through puberty alone is not enough to justify sex with a minor, even if under the guise of religion. ITS NNOT ABOUT POLYGAMY FOR SOME OF US, RATHER ITS ABOUT CHILD ABUSE! 6/17/2005 12:05 PM

STREET's Reply: You see, you and all the world in your perversions think and talk of having sex with twelve year old girls, like dogs on the prowl. That's you

The Lord's church practices the Immaculate, which does not involve having such relations with 12-year olds, or 30, 50, 70 year olds. The animal behavior in not involved. So you err grossly.

onthestreet said...

Anonymous: You don't seem to be a messenger from him, or you wouldn't be speaking to the wrong person (I am Sam), but you also would know what he saw. Still, you are right, a woman with the spirit needs no admonishment. And if what I write here helps me to convert only myself, while speaking well of him, then how great my joy with that soul in heaven. What did he see: Darkness, a devil, an angel, God the Father?

Men In Black said...

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-ploygamy17jun17,1,3551960.story?coll=la-headlines-nation

Fugitive Polygamist Loses Support of Former Ally
Utah has been trying to strip authority from a Mormon sect leader accused of sex crimes.
From Associated Press

SALT LAKE CITY — A former high-ranking member of a polygamous enclave in southern Utah said Thursday he is siding with the state in a battle to strip reclusive leader Warren Jeffs of authority over church assets.

Winston Blackmore said Jeffs took over the reins of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints after Jeffs' now-deceased father suffered a debilitating stroke in 1998.
Jeffs is no longer defending himself or the trust in lawsuits, and the state has alleged that he is selling off assets to keep them from being frozen.

Several parcels of land in southern Utah owned by the trust have been sold or transferred on paper into the hands of others over the last 10 months, court records show.

Anonymous said...

Onthestreet,I believe this messenger is a fake!

Men In Black said...

I think its time for a P.E.T. team to roll on Phoenix or Tempe, someone needs psych evaluation.

Men In Black said...

OTS

To remove all doubt here is Rodney Parkers email, he is still communicating with Warren unofficially;

rparker@scmlaw.com

Sorry, you won't like his answer...

ATAR_i said...

OTS,

God saw those things, and he has forgiven you. If you ask - you are white as snow, and he has thrown them into the sea of forgetfulness.

Thank God for your forgiveness, and don't do it again.

Live every day the best you can. When God says 'no', usually he has a better 'yes'. So perhpas you have something even more important to do than be at YFZ right now. I'm certain you do.

GBNF said...

Streety,
So, are you David's brother Sam? Is that what you've been trying to tell us? You are obviously too literate to be Sam Barlow or Sam Roundy.

Anonymous said...

WHOA! That would make total sense! Did Sam Draper get kicked out too? Maybe OTS IS Sam! Anyone have any info?

Anonymous said...

I never knew Sam Draper to be much of a religionist. He was definitly into snakes, but not religion. Maybe things have changed.

ATAR_i said...

You mean like snake handling during church?

Was Sam younger/older?

feralfem said...

Okay, so maybe OTS is David Draper or possibly Tom Cruise or maybe Laura Bush, the Queen of England or even the Dalai Lama.

What I want to know is what purpose is served in finding out OTS' identity? Huh? What if you/we find out who s/he is, then what? Maybe I just don't grok it... I really want to know. What IS the point?

ATAR_i said...

For me, understanding OTS's identity would give me an understanding of him that I don't possess.

If someone's mother was killed by Ted Bundy, I probably wouldn't invite her over to watch Silence of the Lambs with me on girls night. Because I know she breaks down when she thinks of what her mothers last hours might have been.

If David/Sam was molested by a man - perhaps his own father - I don't just see a schitzophrenic - I see someone in a lot of pain - and it changes how I speak to him.

Understanding the circumstances that he's in - did he leave because he was forced, does he have things he can't forgive himself for, and thus has heaped guilt on top of all the other things?

Most of us have revealed parts of our situation - he doesn't. He has given clues about what his situation is - only his desires for his future. With most posters, it wouldn't matter, but it's clear OTS is in trouble, he's not doing well and it would be nice if there was someone who could help him.

ATAR_i said...

Feral

You state in your profile

"Insouciance is my goal" in your profile - which means 'blithe lack of concern' is my goal.

Why are you here? Why do you care that we care?

feralfem said...

atar_i

Not sure what dictionary you are using, but mine says:
Noun: insouciance
1. The cheerful feeling you have when nothing is troubling you
Synonyms: carefreeness, lightheartedness

Given my own troubled history as a former FLDS, insouciance is a wonderful state to be in. When I experience moments of insouciance, I want more of them. Beside, I'm a bit of a word nut as anyone who knows me would confirm. Anyway, it's a cool-sounding word, don't you think?

I am here because all of this DOES trouble me. We are dealing here with MY relatives, MY loved ones and MY concerns for them.

I just hope we are not tipping OTS over the edge. I fear for her/him too.

Namaste

ATAR_i said...

OK - that makes MORE sense.

I initially thought you misspelled Innocence on purpose - then I thought - hmmmm, maybe it's actually a word. So I looked it up on Dictionary.com, which has the 'blithe' definition.

I agree - I don't want to tip OTS, and since I have heard of his circumstances I have kicked myself a thousand times for the cavalier way which I have spoken to him at times. I know he's all grown up, and responsible for his own actions now, but understanding his background has given me a new angle to see his rantings.

I don't agree with his ideas, but he seems more wounded than anything, and his words cannot inflame me like they did, they make me sad.

Sholem

A.

onthestreet said...

The more you sick bleeding hearts bleed all over one another trying to make someone else look sick, the more sick you not only look but become. Why? Because that's what you dwell on. It's part of you, and you can't escape it.

And Satan in the last days SHALL deceive ALL nations: (Rev.13:14,
18:23, 19:29). Yet, Christ was call the deceiver. Go figure.

"The light of the lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of the bridegroom and the bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your "merchants" (of lies) were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery ALL the nations of the earth were deceived.
And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth."

Men In Black said...

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-wesson18jun18,1,4594468.story?coll=la-headlines-california

Wesson Found Guilty of Killing 9
A Fresno jury convicts on 23 counts, including rape and incest. Murder victims all were children of the defendant, who claimed he was Jesus.


FRESNO — Marcus Wesson, a controlling patriarch who taught his family that he was Jesus and fathered babies with his daughters and nieces, was found guilty of murdering nine of his children Friday — convictions for last year's slayings that could result in a death sentence.


The killings, which were triggered by a child custody dispute, have been described as the worst mass murder in the city's history. The victims, ages 1 to 25, were all shot in an eye; their bodies were found stacked in a backroom in the house, from youngest to oldest.

The three-month trial — and the testimony of 50 witnesses — offered a disturbing family portrait, replete with polygamy, incest, bizarre Bible teachings and vampire admiration.

A feud broke out when the women and their supporters went to the Wesson house to retrieve their children. After a standoff with police, Wesson walked outside, his clothes smeared with blood, all the children dead.

WHILE WESSON MAKES A BAD NAME FOR POLYGAMY, A RELIGIOUS DOCTRINE OF ABSOLUTES LED TO A VIOLENT AND EXTREME END. SHOT IN THE EYE, BECAUSE OF A BIBLICAL REFERENCE OF "AN EYE FOR AN EYE" & RATHER THAN ALLOWING ANOTHER TO HAVE WESSONS CHILDREN, HE'D RATHER SEE THEM DEAD. I BELIEVE THE MIKE WATKISS DOCUMENTARY USED A WARREN AUDIO THAT REFERENCED THE SAME LOGIC. RATHER THAN HAVE YOUR CHILDREN INFLUENCED BY WICKED GENTILES, HE (WARREN) WOULD RATHER HAVE THEM PUT UNDER!

One never knows to what extreme a fanatic will carry his or her belief, but such tales as this one was, was fact not fiction.

ATAR_i said...

Why does everyone want to think they are God?

I just don't get it.

Men In Black said...

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=851753&page=1

Hundreds of 'Lost Boys' Expelled by Polygamist Community

June 15, 2005 -- At least 400 teenage boys have fled or have been kicked out of their communities along the Utah-Arizona border, forbidden from returning home.

Known as the "Lost Boys," they once belonged to a secretive sect known as the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which broke from the Mormon Church because its members wanted to practice polygamy.

Video: 'Lost Boys'

The Lost Boys believe that polygamy is directly related to their exile.

John Jessop says he was kicked out of his mother's house at age 13 after running away for three days.

"It's hard," he said, "not being able to talk to my family at all, really. I think about it all the time. I actually have a hard time sleeping because of it."

Sam Icke says his father made him leave home after he got caught kissing a girl.

"He had no choice in the matter," he said, "because if he wouldn't, he would have the same problem that I had. And he really believes in this."

The man they blame for their plight is Warren Jeffs, who law enforcement officials say dominates every facet of life in the FLDS community. He enforces a dress code, chooses who marries whom and even controls the police.


Reducing Competition for Brides

While representatives of the fundamentalist Mormons insist they're only kicking out people who violate their moral code, prosecutors and former members suspect the real motive may be polygamy — an effort to reduce the competition for brides.

"These guys know that to continue to live polygamy — and at the level it's gone to the last few years, with a few men having 10, 20, upwards of 70, 80 wives — it's obvious that a number of boys have to go," said Dr. Dan Fischer, a former fundamentalist Mormon.

"In order to exist in a polygamist society you have to have more women to men, your ratio of women to men has to be greater," said Tom Sam Sneed, one of the many "Lost Boys" who have had to find new homes.

Sneed found a job and a place to live with the help of best-selling author Jon Krakauer, who wrote "Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith," a book about fundamentalist Mormons.

WHAT I FIND INTERESTING IS THAT I AM ACCUSED OF FABRICATING WHAT IS ALREADY WIDELY PUBLISHED. THE NAY SAYERS WHO WARREN HAS ALREADY OUSTED AS UNFAITHFUL, ARE STILL DEFENDING HIM AND HIS LIES. THE LOST BOYS ARE WHAT? NOT LOST! THEY WERE NOT REALLY KICKED OUT AND 1 + 10 REALLY EQUAL TWO! THE BOY GIRL RATIO IS VERY CLOSE TO 1 TO 1 AND MATHIMATICALLY THESE BOYS ARE RIGHT. BUT THE VERY MINDLESS DEFENDERS HERE WOULD TELL US, THESE STORIES ARE FALSE AND THAT THERE ARE NOT ANY LOST BOYS, THAT THESE REPORTS ARE LIES. THE BOYS THAT HAPPEN TO HAVE NAMES LIKE STEED OR JESSOP MUST BE FROM SOME OTHER GROUP, BUT NOT THIERS. THEN OF COURSE THEY HAVE TO EXPLAIN AWAY, DAN FISCHER, MARK SHURTLEFF & JON KRAKAUER. THIS WAS FROM ABC, THERE IS VIDEO, THE LOST BOYS ARE NOT INVISIBLE! NOW LETS HEAR HOW YOU MAGICALLY EXPLAIN AWAY UPTO 400 of YOUR OWN CHILDREN. SACRAFICED AND DISPOSED OF FOR THE SAME LEADER THAT THREW YOU OUT.

THERE IS A DARKER SIDE TO THIS THAT STILL NEEDS EXPLANATION. YOU FIGHT ME AND DEFEND WARREN, NOT BECAUSE ALL HERE AGREE WITH WARREN, BUT BECAUSE THE "WORK" (polygamy) IS UNDER ATTACK! YOU (me) OUR WARREN'S ENEMY, OUR MUTUAL BELIEF IS UNDER ATTACK, THEREFORE WARREN IS MY (yours) FRIEND! ITS NOT ABOUT WARREN AS MUCH AS IT IS THE "PRINCIPLE" AND WHETHER RELIGIOUS POLYGAMY SURVIVES.

PEOPLE WILL, SACRAFICE THEIR INTEGRITY, THEIR CHILDREN, WHAT LITTLE HONOR THEY HAD, TO PROTECT A BELIEF BASED ON A FAULTY FOUNDATION. THESE BOYS WERE YOURS AND DUMPED ON SOCIETY, BUT REST ASSURE YOU WILL FOLLOW THIS POSTING WITH SOME TWISTED LOGIC TO JUSTIFY SUCH ACTIONS. HOW ARE YOU SO DIFFERENT THAN WESSON, WHO IN THE END JUSTIFIED MURDER IN GODS NAME?

onthestreet said...

UNCLE WARREN! HAPPY FATHERS DAY!

May God bless you forever with faithful children, as numerous as the stars of heaven.

Anonymous said...

STREET's Reply: MIB, how honest is it to NOT collect welfare as though these were no wives at all. We honor our women, whether you do or not, and everyone knows how the states have (since 1890) chased the FLDS into the wilderness to make a living in barren places. So God feeds his little ones, and if God chooses you use the graces of his state governments to feed the polygamists who honor their wives and children with pure living, and who kick out the rest so they may learn purity without spoiling the wheat, as well as to feed the monogamists who generally do not honor their wives and children with pure living, but teach contraception and abortion and sexual promiscuity in families, now those are LIES, and who's to challenge God! How honest is that!!! Good luck in that endeavor, and remember the lies you defend when actual judgement comes. For God's judgement is not the least less real with peoples' perceptions of it.

OTS, IN MY BOOK TAKING ANY TYPE OF MONEY/FUNDS FROM AN UNJUST PARTY/PARTIES (OUR GOVERNMENT) MAKES YOU GUILTY OF RECEIVING THE ILL GOTTEN GAINS. THIS IS SURELY IMMORAL AND AGAINST GOD'S PLAN. IT IS LIKE ACCEPTING MONEY FROM SOMEONE WHO ROBBED A BANK, ISN'T IT? IT IS, IF AS YOU SAY, ALL "GENTILES" ARE HEATHONS AND UNWORTHY. TO BENEFIT MONETARILY FROM THESE FOLKS WHO ARE UNJUST MAKES YOU GUILTY BY ASSOCIATION . THIS IS A GRAVE SIN! WHEN YOU DO SUCH A THING, YOUR SALVATION COULD BE HANGING IN THE BALANCE. BEWARE!!!

Anonymous said...

Could somebody explain to me who this David Draper (or Sam) is? I do not understand his perspective very well because I cannot put it in context. Information would help me clarify. thanks, Tom

onthestreet said...

Ahhh, but the governments of the land are not "unjust parties". They were set up by God himself. Yes, governments may be immoral, but that would be their doing, not God's. He sets up governments to support and discipline the people, as HE sees fit, according to eternal and Gospel laws. If their laws violate that, then God deals with that too.

Anonymous said...

OTS, That is not a truthful statement. God did not create all the governments of the world. You are twisting the facts to suit you. Again, taking gains from the unjust makes you unjust, immoral and unscrupulous. You can't wiggle your way of of this one. It doesn't matter what I think though, because God is the one you will have to answer to.

Anonymous said...

OTS, we are commanded not to take what is not ours. You are commanded not to "bleed" anybody, no matter how beastly or unjust you think they are. In these situations, your character is being judged by your God.His expectations are very clear:

"Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. So if you have not been trustworthy in handling worldly wealth, who will trust you with true riches? And if you have not been trustworthy with someone else's property, who will give you property of your own? No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money." (Luke 16:10-13)

Anonymous said...

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA062005.1A.polygamists_folo.279a1b95.html

Eldorado sect is hammered on all sides
Web Posted: 06/20/2005 12:00 AM CDT

John MacCormack
Express-News Staff Writer

ELDORADO — It's been a difficult spring for Warren Jeffs, the reclusive leader of a secretive polygamist sect that is building a large settlement and an imposing stone temple a few miles outside of town.

In Texas, the governor recently signed into law measures aimed directly at the polygamists, including raising the age of consent to marry from 14 to 16 and outlawing "stepfather marriages."

In Utah, a state judge in late May removed the trustees — including Jeffs — who had controlled the multimillion-dollar trust that owns most of the land, homes and businesses used by sect members.

In Arizona, officials two weeks ago seized control of the public school district in Colorado City — Jeffs' former stronghold. The district, which had been run by the polygamists, is heavily in debt and assets are missing.

And on June 10, in the first fruits of a long-running criminal investigation into underage marriages within the sect, a grand jury in Kingman, Ariz., indicted Jeffs on two felony charges.

The accusations stem from his alleged arrangement of an illegal marriage three years ago between a 16-year-old girl and a 28-year-old man. Arrest warrants have been issued for both men.

"This isn't about religious persecution. This has nothing to do with polygamy," said Matthew Smith, the Mohave County Attorney, who said 10 more polygamist men may be charged.

"It has to do with underage marriage. It has to do with leaving these young girls alone so they can have a little more maturity and make their own decisions."

While Smith said he has no idea where Jeffs is, he added, "If I was a guessing man, I'd think he was in Texas

NO COMMENTARY TODAY, I LEAVE THAT TO OTS, WHO IT IS PROPHISIZED WILL LEED AUTHORITIES TO WARREN JEFFS!

Thank you father!

Faithful Woman said...

You can relax about Esther Ruth Chatwin. She did "marry" young but it was to a young man. It was not a matter of her wanting to get married before she ran out of time, it was cause the hormones kicked in and if she didn't get married ......... Well, she was already all over her sisters' young husbands.
As far as I understand it is ok in American law if an underage girl has sex as long as it is with a boy also under age.
She has one child and no intention of having more, is still in love with her wild child of a husband.

Anonymous said...

Straight Shot say,
O K Anonymouse 11:35 AM, tell us which is worse, believing what Esther Ruth Chatwin, herself said about listening to the teachings about the year 2000 and the lifting up of CC and the burning of the wicked and that profit Warren Jeffs was urging all girls to get themselves placed with a "priesthood head before the great day of the Lord" -- Or what you just accused her of basically being a 14 year old nympho-slut who couldn't keep her hands off her sisters husbands.

That's seriously harsh you know. And there has been enough hashing of this issue form most people to know that the young man they assigned her to was 19 which is still an adult in every state, province, and in both countries.

It is truly fantastic if Esther Ruth is happy know -- and a long and happy life to her and her "wild child husband" but the way they were brought together in the first place is still wrong no matter how you slice it.

To be terrified by your profit, leaders, and most peers to the point that you are afraid you will not have the chance to be married and have children so you "insist" on being married at one day less than 15 is not cool.

And then to have people say that it is REALLY OK BECAUSE SHE WAS A HORNY LITTLE GIRL IS GROSS. Just like all those rebellious teen - girls who are forcing thier parents to let them get married to older - multi-married men.

How sad.

God Save us all.

Men In Black said...

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/articles/0622wed1-22.html

A tragic drama unfolds
Justice must play the starring role in saga of polygamist cult

Jun. 22, 2005 12:00 AM

Men In Black said...

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0622polygamy22.html

But the biggest blow yet to the polygamist sect that controls the twin towns of Colorado City, Ariz., and Hildale, Utah, could come today when a Utah judge is expected to decide whether the sect leaders who control the purse strings to a more than $100 million trust will retain their positions as trustees.

Tim Bodily, an assistant Utah attorney general, said that if none of the leadership of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, including indicted leader and trustee Warren Jeffs, shows up in court this morning to challenge a preliminary injunction that froze trust funds, it will become a permanent injunction.




That would mean that independent trustees would then take over what is expected to be an exhaustive task of trying to figure out what to do with the money in the United Effort Plan, a trust with utopian, socialistic ideals based on communal sharing in 19th-century Mormon settlements in Utah and Arizona.

Men In Black said...

From e-Press

Decertification at top of list
COLORADO CITY, Ariz. – The Arizona Police Officers Standards and Training Board discusses the specific charges against two Colorado City police officers. Unit Manager Bob Forry said there are four specific charges against Officers Sam Roundy and Vance Barlow.
“At the top of the list is the fact that both Roundy and Barlow have been decertified in the state of Utah,” said Forry.
Other charges include bigamy, which is a Felony, and cohabitation in violation of the Arizona Constitution. In an attempt to contact Barlow at his residence, a female responded that she was sure Barlow would have no comment. A hearing requested by the two officers is scheduled for the near future.

Men In Black said...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/22/AR2005062200369.html

Penalty Phase Begins in Fresno Slayings

By JULIANA BARBASSA
The Associated Press
Wednesday, June 22, 2005; 6:45 AM

FRESNO, Calif.


The jury that convicted a man of murdering nine of his children now must decide if he should be sentenced to death or life in prison.

The jury took two weeks to convict Marcus Wesson, 58, after months of hearing about his bizarre life of polygamy and incest.

The slayings were the worst murder case ever seen in this agricultural town in the heart of California's Central Valley.

Officers were summoned to Wesson's rundown home on March 12, 2004, after two of Wesson's nieces who had escaped from the home went back to try to get their children.

After a brief standoff with police, Wesson emerged, blood on his clothing, and turned himself in. Authorities found corpses ranging in age from 1 to 25. The nieces' children were among the dead

and sometimes interrupted testimony, once to tell the judge the prosecutor was being disrespectful.

"He didn't go along with the program," Kinney said. "He always wanted to be in control."

Anonymous said...

Faithful;

There you go again, Lori! You should be ashamed! Calling your beautiful young sister-in-law horny, and portraying her as a nympho only shows what you yourself are made of!

Where is your personal class, your family dignity and pride? Don't you realize that as you are baring other butts you are only showing your own? What makes you think that you are any better? Or less "horny"?

"Never does a man portray his own character more vividly than in his manner of portraying that of another"

Take a good look at your past posts, honey! Look what everyone sees in Lori!

And take it easy on the innocent, ok? Maybe you could benefit from some charm school (and maybe a beauty makover, too!) If you felt more beautiful, perhaps you wouldn't be so quick to tear down others!

I will be looking for your "new look" on the next interviews! Good luck!

p.s. I recommend St. George Day Spa! You'll love it!

onthestreet said...

ATAR_i said...
Why does everyone want to think they are God? I just don't get it.
6/18/2005 11:05 PM

STREET's Reply: Tarry, it's just children striving upward to become like their Father.

Anonymous said...

New article:

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0622polygamy.html

Faithful Woman said...

Anon. 6-22 12:14pm

Oh bite me.

I didn't say anything about Esther that I didn't think she would be OK with. She is my friend.

Anonymous said...

temper, temper

Anonymous said...

"All over the boys" means something different outside the creek, Lori.

ATAR_i said...

I love Faithful!!!! - you are hysterical girl!

Faithful Woman said...

You think I don't see what goes on in "the world"? I have more connections than you think I do.
What do you want? graphic details?

Anonymous said...

I don't see why people care about Esther Ruth's marriage. It wasn't by the law so it would be like they were just dating to the world. So what is the big deal.

Anonymous said...

_________________________________
What do you want? graphic details?
__________________________________

Graphic details! Which would you recommend? The book or the movie?

onthestreet said...

TRY THE BIBLE!

GBNF said...

Street,
Where is Kathleen?

Anonymous said...

Morning Angel says,
Oh Street - The bible is just disgusting, Especially the old Testament where Father Abraham got all this misery started.
Truly there isn't any book in the world more graphic than the Bible.
What Torture!

onthestreet said...

The Word cuts like a two-edged sword, and to the wicked the truth STINGS! Yes, what torture.