Tuesday, June 14, 2005

Growing Up In CC

As a girl in the FLDS religion, I was taught to keep pure and clean for the person I was to marry...Marriage was for eternity and that the prophet knows who your soul-mate is because God tells him. I'd say that 80% plus of the girls I grew up with were virigins when they were married. I am proud of that fact. We watched movies and talked about boyfriends and girl friends and sex just like teenagers do. Placement marriage worked for me.

My father could have never raised his family of 12 without the UEP. This is the case with most of the big family's. It was like being raised by the community...everyone watched out for everyone... It brings back good memories of roaming the neighborhoods with out a care in the world, except for the "outsiders".

114 comments:

onthestreet said...

Sounds real good. As long as you're still a virgin within your marriage, your're okay, for any "temple that is defiled, God will destroy."

"They which have not defiled their garments, they shall walk with me in white."
Rev. 3:4).

Many are "given wives in marriage until the day they enter the "ark", and the "flood" (of judgement) came and destroyed them all." (Lk. 17:27).

Anonymous said...

I am glad you had a wonerful time. There is a lot of sucesses. I hope you continue to have a lot of sucess. I feel like most people do not care about marriage any more, and it is very rare for girls to wait until they get married. I know in our fundamental church, most girls wait, until they are married. That is a rare virtue. I feel like that is why there is such an atack on Our people. We generally are virtuouse. Once in a while there is sin, but for the most part, all of the people are trying to be clean every whit.

onthestreet said...

Absolutely. That is what the birth of the spirit and Immaculate Conception is all about.

Anonymous said...

So what do you think about the velcro marriages in the last 5 years? I'm sure not proud of that. I'm embarrased to even say where I was born and raised

onthestreet said...

ADMIN:

I'm trying to create my own thread on my own, so I can edit my thread as needed. I emailed you about this over a week ago, but no response. So I posted my request on several threads. Still no response. Did you die, are you okay?

Now I know that you emailed me back, and this is what you said:

Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 09:11:03 -0500
From: "Texas Polygamy"
Contact Details
Subject: Re: STREET

Sorry, only admn...or users with admin authority can delete posts. There is no need to copy and paste old posts simply to keep them at the top. If they are old posts, let them cycle off to the archives.
Weblog Admin

ADMIN: I'm not trying to "keep posts on top. How vain is that? Just need to be able to edit my own thread, you see?

Now, I clicked on the red blog logo in the upper left corner of the blog page, and got the next page, but there was no green plus sign. So I need admin authority to edit my own thread, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. How about it?

Hey, maybe you don't read all the threads, I don't know. Tell you what: I'll post this request on all the threads, so you'll see it.

Thank you Sir.
Street

Stinger said...

Street, you need to stop spamming for a second and very carefully read what the admin wrote to you.
"Sorry, only admn...or users with admin authority can delete posts."
This means that only the administrator of the site can edit posts. Registered users can start their own treads and delete their own posts but only the administrator can have the power of an administrator. You should do all your posting on your YFZ blog site. Then you can edit things to your heart's delight. When ever the rest of us want to see what you have to say we will come over and check things out.

onthestreet said...

You should do this, you should do that. What are you, a teenage tantromizer, what some would say is soooo like Street?

String, you need to get off your string and stop SPAMMING people. Just look how long your post is. Hell, it's a dozen lines!!!! Oh my, oh my!!! Many of the posts in here stretch from horizon to horizon, right MIB?

Get a life, string. You're obvously only living on a string. Hey, with you on a string, and me on the street, HEY!

Now, you need to consider what you just said. Now don't get frightened over the possibility of being misquoted. This is a direct quote-paste: String Said:

"Sorry, only admn...or users with admin authority can delete posts."
Registered users can start their own treads and delete their own post."

Real intelligent, bub, real intelligent. Only admin can do it, but so can everyone else, right? That's what you just said.

What, you saying I just need to register? I'm registered, am I not? So if "registered users can delete their own posts," like you just said, WHY CAN'T I DO IT, and that certainly isn't "Only the Administrator."

Wowy, you're a smarty (pants).
I hope the admin is smarter than that, or is that YOU? Let's get with it. I need to copy and paste some of my posts in the bottom quarter of my old thread, and paste them in my new thread, in order to make the old thread more navigable. How bout it, speed gonzales.

myddf said...

"I know in our fundamental church, most girls wait, until they are married. That is a rare virtue. I feel like that is why there is such an atack on Our people. We generally are virtuouse. Once in a while there is sin, but for the most part, all of the people are trying to be clean every whit."

what a joke...the only flds members who might be virtous are perhaps the 1st wives...the rest of you are all SLEEPING WITH MARRIED MEN!!!

Anonymous said...

To anonimouse, who said, what about velcro marriage, and they are ashamed to say where they are from. I would say this. Never be ashamed of who you are. God made every person. He loves every person. There is a world full of bars and hookers, and the divorce rate is very high. The aids virus is rampant, and all manner of situations occur. There is no shame in being what and who you are. You can not garentee, that your parents would not have divored and married three or four times, if you were out in the world. I say be proud of who you are. Look father than what men say about men. God made in each person a miricle.

onthestreet said...

The other wives, just sleeping with married men. That's just your perverted view. Right, they're married, even to all their women. So all the wives are sleeping with their husband, but not the way you do it.

Since you are so adament in knowing what the FLDS do in bed, okay fair is fair: What do YOU do in bed. You've already spilled your guts, because your corruption isn't hidden from anybody. The faithful don't "get it on" at all when they sleep with someone, because purity and immaculate conception are a matter of life and death to us. That's not the case outside the surviving members of the FLDS Church.

Ummmm, your underwear's showing, and a whole lot more.

Anonymous said...

I guess what goes around comes around. "Judge not, that ye be not judged." Truer words were never spoken. I remember when the '84 split happened. We (first warders) were SO high and mighty. We were SO righteous and we were the ONLY ones who understood priesthood. Consequently we could afford to look down on everyone else. When someone wanted a seperation and went to Dell Timpson for it and he accomodated them, we all laughed and called them "The Timpson Zipper Marriages."

We were so much superior to the "apostates" that we had to seperate ourselves from our relatives who made other choices. We shunned them and didn't associate with them.

Well, now we don't have zipper marriages. We have SHAM marriages. Nobody knows who they're going to be sleeping with from day to day. No man is safe from Warren's schizophrenia. We don't even have the security of zipper or even velcro marriages. These are whoredoms where he sells women to whomever is in favor and then removes them to inflict punishment.

It is the SICKEST, most HORRIFIC situation I have ever witnessed. At least when the Japanese were raping the Chinese during WWII, the women KNEW they were victims. The poor women in the Crick are brainwashed into thinking that what they are doing is GOD's will. They seriously believe that GOD would require them to abase themselves and sleep with a series of men at a MAN's whim. No wonder they all need anti-depressants. If the God I worshipped required that, I wouldn't have a lot to live for either.

And this same MAN (please don't confuse him with God; there's already plenty of confustion) requires people to sever their family ties and shun everybody who doesn't confess Warren's hand. This goes DEAD against Jesus' only commandment: LOVE ONE ANOTHER.

So, ashamed of where I came from? Not necessarily. But I am DAMNED sick and sorry and ashamed of what is going on now and that the people I love are sick enough to BELIEVE this sh**.

onthestreet said...

Now that is no surviving "First Warder." Just anonymous, and very exposed, talking about zippers and all.

onthestreet said...

Yes, I just said your underwear was showing, because it shows the dishonor of it all, not the promotion of dishonor, but the demotion. You place your reference to "zipper marriages" squarely on yourself, confessing even to your marriage being a "SHAM" marriage.
Sham on you.

GBNF said...

To Anon 6/14/2005 9:40 PM:
AMEN!! Very well said and written!
Your superior intelligence is showing!

Streety,
Someone that would make excuses for a pedophile, should not make moral judgements on others! If you support evil you become evil.

Anonymous said...

Ok, David. That's One. You like to bare it all, you're about to get bared.

To 9:47, I couldn't agree with you more. There was a time when we all knew that we were safe from broken homes and bitter divorces... and yes!!! YOU ARE SOOOO RIGHT!! We did think we were better than the "Tipmpsonites from Satanical Park"... But you know what? They have only treated us with kindness, when they could have said, "serves you right, you self-rightious idiots"

There's a lesson here!

Anonymous said...

Street, I dare say this nonsense about "immaculate conception" reveals a porn-problem. Get over it. Warren has never, to my knowledge, taught that nonsense--William Black make a feeble defense attempt using this nonsense.

Anonymous said...

And if you remember what was tought in church, you would remeber that a person has no right to judge another. It was said, the ones that leave, will be the critazisers and then the critasisers of the critasisers. It was tought Love your neighbor as your self. And in Jesus's church there is no first or second warders. Jesus tought, there is no man above another. All are on a path. All have a choice to do good or evil. All are accountable to Christ. Jesus so loved the church, or the poeple he gave all he had. He gave his life. Who among us is greater than him.

Anonymous said...

Ruth, that was my point exactly. Warren thinks HE is above Christ's law and that he is above Christ Himself. That is why he claims to be "God with us" (his words, not mine) and "God and the Prophet are One" and "The Prophet is as God to us"

Ruth, if you truly believe that all are accountable to Christ, don't you think that Christ is going to ask Warren why he couldn't follow just the ONE simple commandment:
As I have loved you, love one another.

Warren can't have it. I takes the focus from the prophet.

Anonymous said...

And the critazisers of the critazisers, and the accuser's and the excuses. For if a man is happy in christ, no other man can take it from him.

Anonymous said...

virginity is not a virtue. innocence, self worth and self respect are virtues. virginity proves nothing except maybe that your dad won't have to kill your boyfriend.

virginity is nothing more than a small flappy piece of flesh, I don't think god cares how long you keep it.

keep sweet eldorado
stg

Anonymous said...

To Rumor-has-it.

I grew up at the Krik (Long Time Gone) and I think I must have been born a decade or two early. Out of all the girls I grew up with, 98% were virgins, at least when they left high school. I only found out about the 2% that weren't a few years after high school. My friends and I were always trying to get laid and it pisses me off that we missed the boat of willing women by just 10 or so years!

Sheesh! In your day only 80% were virgins! We could have had a field day with the other 20%!

Anonymous said...

Can any one here explain to me the difference between 3 connected wives verses those that had more. The theology seems to suggest 3, but in the story yesterday in the Los Angeles Times, it placed the former Mayor with either 7 or 8 wives?

Then in an old Newsweek story it had Rulon Jeffs with Mary Fischer and two of her daughters. From having way beyond 3 wives and marrying mother and daughters, this seems to counter the original teachings of Joseph Smith. So how are so many wives justified beyond 3, then is it in the doctrine to marry mothers and their daughters, along with sisters?

My dad suggested this site for me, as I have chose a related subject for my senior project in my high school IB program.

Dads daughter.

Anonymous said...

To Dad's daughter:

There's a lot of media hype and misconception on numbers of wives and other Fundamentalist doctrines; you've chosen an interesting subject for your senior project.

First, let me say that in Mormon doctrine, the Doctrine and Covenants is controlling, instructive and quite self explantory:

Section 132, verse 4 reads, "For behold I reveal unto you a new and everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory."

Continuing with verse 32, "Go ye, therefore, and do the works of Abraham; enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved."

I refer you to verses 61 and 62 which is the only reference to numbers in the revelation on marriage. You will note in those verses that strict rules on virtue and chasity are required if the blessings and promises of God are to be claimed.

The essential issue regarding plural or celestial marriage is simply this. Quality, fidelity, faithfulness and perfection are the requirements of the celectial law and not quanity. It is an accurate observation that in true fundamentalist doctrine, a good man with only two good women can qualify for the highest degree of the celectial kingdom, where they can be added upon for time and all eternity . . .

ATAR_i said...

Dads Daughter,

What is your religious background? (a real basic, protestant, catholic, LDS or none would suffice) It might help for those who are in FLDS to get a baseline of your familiarity.

I'm not FLDS, and so I am also interested in the answers that they give you. If you have any questions I can answer you can email me at atar_i@hotmail.com.

Anonymous said...

To all those of you who grew up in the crick... Shame on you. We were taught nothing but pure teachings, we could stay sweet through anything. We were taught to forgive all, and never criticize, complain or find fault.
We all were taught to stay clean and pure, yes there are underaged marriages; but what about all the 14 and 15 year old getting raped out here. No one seems to care as much about that............

ATAR_i said...

Anon:

No more shame, no more guilt, no more instructing people how to feel.

I keep seeing the manipulation of feelings and behavior with the giving and taking of love, acceptance or exclusion from the group and using massive doses of shame.

If you want influence someone in a healthy way - Manipulation - is NOT the right tool. Influencing choices is a hallmark of healthy social funcitoning but it recognizes the boundaries and integrity of others.

Manipulation depends on coercion, domination and control oftentimes with secret agendas and without any regard for the other persons wellbeing.

Many on this blog are vulnerable to maniuplation because they have such a great desire to be loved, useful, pure and desperately want to be accepted by others.

As someone on the outside - it's easy to see some of the expoitation of good people - don't be part of it.

Spotting someone who is attempting to manipulate

1. They will give you something, or promise something to get you to do what they want.

2. They will promise that you won't lose anything if you go along with their desires.

Sometimes - it's more subtle - but look for these two.

onthestreet said...

Just Listen to yourselves!

1. Virginity not a virtue? It is the ONLY virtue of all the virtues that shares the same root. And as "MYDDF" said above: Most girls wait until they are married. That is a rare virtue:6/14/2005 9:05 PM

2. GBNF: Streety,Someone that would make excuses for a pedophile, should not make moral judgements on others! If you support evil, you become evil.
6/14/2005 10:30 PM

Marrying someone has nothing to do with pedophilia, and everyone said AMEN. As far as helping his 5-year old nephew overcome something, what other proof has anyone at all. Your just spewing the abundance of your own heart. If anyone is a pedophile, many of you would say it's Jacko, and now even he is innocent. So you violate the law, which allows all as innocent until proven guilty.

So since nobody is proven guilty until the judgement day, I don't feel I should proclaim your guilt.
If I have done so, my apologies. But I do try to point out principles that may help someone. If you feel you should proclaim Warren's guilt before any judge-ment day, that's your problem.

This post is long enough.

ConservativeValues said...

I judge none of you - however I find you all a bit loonie

onthestreet said...

Anonymous Sicko Said: It is the SICKEST, most HORRIFIC situation I have ever witnessed. At least when the Japanese were raping the Chinese during WWII, the women KNEW they were victims.
6/14/2005 9:40 PM

STREET'S Reply: If women don't consider themselves raped, especially the survivors in the FLDS Church, it's because they're not only happy, but undefiled even in conception. All my life, I heard men tell how the prophet always told the men to leave their wives alone, sexually, and it's in the marriage covenant. So the violaters were excommunicated.

Sicko further states:
The poor women in the Crick are brainwashed into thinking that what they are doing is GOD's will. They seriously believe that GOD would require them to abase themselves and sleep with a series of men at a MAN's whim. No wonder they all need anti-depressants. If the God I worshipped required that, I wouldn't have a lot to live for either.

STREET'S Reply: "Blessed are the poor, for they shall see God." Your Redeemer said it. Is he a liar? And if their brains are washed, what's wrong with having clean brains, sicko! When a series of men are violators of their women (and most do, it's their animal nature), the Prophet comes to their rescue, a true knight in shining armour, and the women flock closely around him. Little wonder, sicko blunder. Get over it.

As for "antidepressants", maybe the apostates use them. Our only antidepressant is the "Keep Sweet" pill. It's very tasty. Try some if you may.

And yes, the man is God with us. Lump it, if you must. You say if he requires people to sever their family ties and shun everybody who doesn't confess Warren's hand, This goes DEAD against Jesus' only commandment: LOVE ONE ANOTHER.

DEAD WRONG. Jesus didn't have "only one commandment." This alone shows the total falacy and stupidity of your arguments. "These six things GOD HATES. . ." Does that sound like love only. You're a perversion of all that's godly.

onthestreet said...

Finally, you wrap it up by saying:

"I am DAMNED sick and sorry and ashamed. . ."

You should be.

onthestreet said...

Anonymous said...
Street, I dare say this nonsense about "immaculate conception" reveals a porn-problem. Get over it. Warren has never, to my knowledge, taught that nonsense--William Black make a feeble defense attempt using this nonsense. 6/14/2005 11:05 PM

STREET's Reply: You don't think God is immaculate, and that such an idea is porn to you? You call God a "porn problem"? Good luck with that one. "Warren has never taught, to your knowledge. . ."

Right, to your knowledge, which is ZIP, NADA, FEEBLE, DEPRAVED, and a violation of all that's descent.

onthestreet said...

Anonymous said...
Can any one here explain to me the difference between 3 connected wives verses those that had more. The theology seems to suggest 3, but in the story yesterday in the Los Angeles Times, it placed the former Mayor with either 7 or 8 wives?
Dads daughter. 6/15/2005 3:17 AM

STREET's Reply: Just look at the Tree of Life: Three mothers (3 horizontals), seven diagonals, and twelve verticals. Then the finals, and the total to the powers of ten.
That explains the difference between having 3 wives and having more.

"But some seed fell on good ground, and yielded to some an hundred, to some fifty, and to some thirty. . ."

onthestreet said...

That last quote is from Mk. 4:8

Anonymous said...

Admin you are going to have to do something about this moron. He OTS has dominated the last three threads with rambling that no one cares to hear about. Most having nothing to do with the thread itself.

onthestreet said...

Ahh, so nobody here cares about the Lord's word, or a people trying to live it strictly, as Christ says it must be lived.

SO WHY HAVE YOUR BLOG AT ALL. After all, it deals exclusivelyi with, ummmmm, US!

Ahhh, I get it. You're all on the wrong blog. Okay, your mistake.

Anonymous said...

The Admin. should ban OTS like they did on the Canadian Blog. They made it so every time he posted anything it had to clear the administrator first, before it even showed up on the blog.

Anonymous said...

By the way, does anyone know where David Draper lives now? I understand he was booted some time back.

Anonymous said...

Symptoms of Religious Addiction

Religious convictions are stated as black and white.

Isolation from people who do not share the same beliefs.

Think of the world and flesh as inherently evil.

Obsessive about praying, going to church, reading the Bible, attending crusades, watching television evangelists, sending money to missions

Excessive fasting

Hearing messages from God

Judging others; often angry and violent toward "heathens", "apostates"

Brainwashing* - attempt to persuade family and significant friends to their way of thinking

Compulsively talking about God, religion or quoting from Scripture

Conflict of ideology with hospitals and schools

Discourage thinking for oneself, doubting or questioning

Sexuality seen as dirty or bad

Cannot accept criticism

Suffer tension, stress, often develop physical illnesses, such as eating disorders, depression and anxiety

Often stare, go into trances

Erratic personality changes

Taken from: When God Becomes A Drug: Breaking the Chains of Religious Addiction and Abuse, by Leo Booth

*A more accurate term than "brainwashing" to explain this process would be mind manipulation or thought reform.

ATAR_i said...

How old is David Draper? Did David have any mental problems of any kind? Was he ever suspected of being a pedophile?

ATAR_i said...

PA Conservative - I would agree - we have all become a little bit loonie : )

Anonymous said...

street...you need to get laid

Anonymous said...

Yes atari, he is menatally unhealthy. He lives in Tempe, AZ and works at a home depot.

ATAR_i said...

Is David Draper OTS?

Anonymous said...

I think David Drapers mother was a Johnson. Some of his brothers have had a problem in that area. I like him alot, has a good sense of humor and he married my cousin. But like so many within the FLDS religion, thinking they had to be perfect to get lifted up, knowing they would never make it..flip out. I know I do it myself sometimes:) Just because my Dad and Mom don't love me and won't talk to me and all my friends won't either.

Anonymous said...

Straight Shot says,
Does anyone know where Mathew Draper is? I have been trying to locate him for a while as I was able to help him years ago when he was suffering some health problems. I would like to hear from him.
If you have any idea I would love to connect some how.

ATAR_i said...

That's tough Anon, I just can't imagine how empty I would feel if that happened to me. But it really helps to understand where someone is coming from.

I don't know your situation at all, and I don't know your mother, but I'm certain she cries over you.

Parents, even the good ones, make big mistakes with their kids. Sometimes they get a second chance to do the right thing, to be the parent they wish they would have been.

I hope you get a second chance with your family. It won't be the same, and it won't erase everything, but it's something to hope for.

Anonymous said...

I think Matthew Draper is down living in Texas. When Rulon Jeffs died Matthew and one of his brothers made the trip to CC to attend the funeral. Even though Rulon was his grandfather they wouldnt even let him through the day but sent him right back to Texas.

Men In Black said...

STREET's Reply: Just look at the Tree of Life: Three mothers (3 horizontals), seven diagonals, and twelve verticals. Then the finals, and the total to the powers of ten.
That explains the difference between having 3 wives and having more.

"But some seed fell on good ground, and yielded to some an hundred, to some fifty, and to some thirty. . ."

6/15/2005 2:11 PM

Can you in all honesty OTS state that taxpayers outside of the faithful don't pick up the tab for a belief they do not share with you? The stats on Colorado City and Hildale were well documented and reported on by John Dougherty of the NEW TIMES in Phoenix. In order to have this doctrine, its necessary to extort monies from families that struggle to raise 2 or 3 children. These find it hard to work and nurture just 3 children, building with in them self esteem.

Is it honest to condem the world beyond, with not one hand out stretched, but two, expecting monies to support what? 3, 7, 10 or was it times 10 wives and 10 times as many children? You live in the world of Brian David Mitchell where belief supercede's both logic and a concept of fairplay. You play, we as tax payers pay and pay and pay!

We can study any number of the former faithful. Jack Cooke, Ruth's dad had 4 wives and 56 children. Jack said at one point he knew all of their names, their birthdates not, but when they are not celebrated, no need right! One wife had 17 children. Could Jack ever afford these many kids on what he made? No, it took help and today, the government is still paying, but the next generation as well.

Lets look at former Mayor Dan Barlow. What 7 wives and 71 Children. Did he ever get WIC, foodstamps, medical or public welfare inspite of a salary as Mayor? I have the answer do you?

This exists because people who strongly dislike gentiles use their money to violate the law, while accusing these of persecution. "We want your money, not your opinions", even when that opinion is under the law. Ignored for decades, the right not identified in the constitution became a believed ENTITLEMENT, but dishonest because you were not self sufficient! I've been to those craft fairs where demonstrations of canning, homemade soap and other forms of self sufficientcy was shown, but never addressed was the real price tag that society pays for what, unwed mothers?

Your answer above justifies as many wives as you can get away with, not how many you can afford. Warren shot way over 3, 7 or 10 and married his step mothers to boot. Tithing makes his lifestyle posible at the moment, but if faithful were supporting their own istead of his, tithing to Warren, he too could not afford his family. Where is your integrity or honesty that allows you to spend monies to support not 5 or 10 children, but rather 10-100 depending on ones ability to abuse his power? Who decides who can have 1, 2, 3 or 7 wives? How does one brown nose the prophet to be seen in favor to receive additional wives and does it ever involve financial exchanges with the prophet? An improvement to the prophets home, free construction labor? Watch out OTS, I might already have the answer!

Lets start telling this audience how the priesthood decides who is worthy and while were at it, you tell them how many wives you were blessed with and why. You can be anonymous, but I bet you can't be honest! As long as you remain invisible, all you have is your belief to prop you up. If you had your honesty, you wouldn't need this blog.

Instead of a religious diatribe, try to answer real questions, its getting down to your ability to focus on truths, that over living a fairytale like that of Brian Mitchell, he too favors the quoting scripture defense. Next I expect humor and wit in your reply, but prefer that you start being truthful, if I were the Grand Jury, this is a riddle, where would you be?

Anonymous said...

Atar-i, I believe that OTS is David Draper. And yes, he has been institutionalized in the past for mental instability. He should be on medications but I doubt he is taking them. Last anyone knew he was in southern Arizona (maybe hanging out at the Phoenix public library . . .) and then at one point he disappeared into Mexico for a while. I think he was looking for his mother, who had been spirited away to "Zion" and then abandoned by her second husband, who was dismissed. Anyway, I think he is hanging around the phoenix area now and I would bet my last dollar that he is OTS.

Anonymous said...

So the point being, MIB and others who insist on carrying on a debate with OTS, HE IS NOT CAPABLE OF LOGICAL THOUGHT!
Replying to his idiocy is like adding fuel to the fire. Have you ever talked to a schizophrenic? Well you are now!

ATAR_i said...

Can you tell me how old he might be? Is his mother OK? Is there anyone who can help him?

Anonymous said...

And if you look at the TRUTH, Jack William Cooke never took any government help for his family. And he took the money his family earned, so go fly a kite, you stupid---------------------

ATAR_i said...

anon 5:39, what are you responding to?

Anonymous said...

to atari,
Jay beswick, men in black, when he says you can look at former faithful, and makes a reverence to Jack Cooke. In the first place, Jack was not a faithful member. He was and is a child molester. He never had his family on welfare or government aid. His family worked. they were never lazy. They never took charity. His children put their money into a trust fund. They could have built a house from start to finish, and lived in luxery, and he took it and disapeared for a few years. So men in black, go back to the table. And if you ask me, this state of utah, should never have let him out of jail.

Anonymous said...

And, I am not sure if Jack even remebered he had children, let alone remebered their names. Pick an example to pick on, men in black, or shut your mouth.

Anonymous said...

I have always wondered why we never celebrated Christmas and any other holidays? I was always told they were merchant holidays. I think they are family time. I love them now, but have always wondered...

GBNF said...

Street Fruit = David Draper?

Streety did you have to bath with your father? Did he have you wash secret places for him?
Is that why you defend a pedophile?
Oh you poor fool! Take your medication and try to get better!

onthestreet said...

Like I said, gbnf etc. are pedophiles. It's a fact. Charges have been made, so it's a fact. By that reasoning, everyone who is charged by anyone for anything is THAT, because charges have been made. Pretttty Intelligent.

I am Sam;.)

Anonymous said...

Straight Shot says,
Tragically, you are right about the money Jack Cook squandered and left his family destitute. From what you say you are likely related and suffered the most -- but why did Jack get left so long in a position where he wasn't "handled" or "adjusted" by people who knew the crimes he was commiting?
I know some of the daughters who were taken by mother's to a Prophet/leaders who just said, "pray and the Lord will take care of it." "Go home, mind your own business and keep sweet and the Lord with take care of it."
Well -- why are you screaming at Jay Beswick about it???

If you are a son, brother, Uncle, or one of the men who were leaders who just let so many of the daughters be damaged and didn't even try to do anything about it then just SHUT UP!!!

Jay Beswick came on side to help from no where and if it wasn't for his concern and constant vigilance you wouldn't be thinking about this any further yourself - who ever you are???

Just give your head a shake - If you are truly so horrified by the crimes Jack Cook committed and want MIB or Jay Beswick to butt out then do the job we are all morally bound to do to start with.

Don't hide your head and pretend you don't understand or know about the horrors and the abuses know?? Would there need to be any MIB's in the world if we truly did stand up -- even when the rest of the world wants to shut us up and make us believe that these abuse are not the same as the abuses in the Gentile world because they are happening in CC.

Good God!!! Work Jay Beswick out of a job instead of cursing him -- Do you know where your children are? Your sisters? Your neices? Your nephews?? Your neighbors children?? Grandchildren???
Are they safe? Safe from Warren Jeffs? Safe from Jack Cook??
Are you safe??
God help us all.

onthestreet said...

Right, YOU are not safe (from yourself, and from the dragon and the beast. Thus, "God help you."

Anonymous said...

As for "antidepressants", maybe the apostates use them. Our only antidepressant is the "Keep Sweet" pill. It's very tasty. Try some if you may.

Yes, this "Keep Sweet" pill is a POWERFUL potion. It not only cures depression, it turns the women into "Stepford Wives" and the men into "
Eunuchs".

GREAT STUFF, that "Keep Sweet" pill.

Anonymous said...

Straight Shot says,

Are Mathew, David, and the other Drapers brought up here all sons of Bill Draper?? So they would be brothers?
Whoever anonymous posting that David Draper is possibly or would bet their last dollar that he is David Draper -- I really question this. I know that the father Bill Draper was one of the teachers of the Gospel, who used to travel with the "Apostles" of God and preach wherever their was a FLDS community.

If Bill Draper made his kids sit down and learn the "gospel" in great detail then it is possible that Street would know all he does. But without access to an extensive library and the determination to study more than just the every day teachings of Warren or even the last 20 years of the group teachings he wouldn't know the things he does.

Maybe Street is a brilliant person -- because we know that their is a fine line between genius and insanity.

But I would like to reconfirm to Street in very simple language - whoever you are - you are not doing yourself any favors by your behaviors and attempts to bully the administrator and other on this blog.

I knew a man who interpreted the "gospel" the way you do and he slowly drove himself mad. He was very abusive to his wives and children.
If you are David - I certianly have some idea what you have been through.
Take care of yourself - treat others - here and whereveryou are the way you would like to be treated.
God Save us All.

Anonymous said...

Straight Shot:

I am alive and well in Texas. You can reach me at hwah2k-txpoly@yahoo.com

Matt Draper

Anonymous said...

Jack WAS arrested. I just said use an example of a faithful person for a faithful person, or shut up. Jack was never faithful. He was a mollester. His daughter's never talked about what happened to any one important, until it was reported to the distric attorney, and he went to jail. And like you say our leaders said, "God would take care of it." He did, did he not? Jack was arrested. It looks like it was taken care of. So, men in black, get an example of a faithful man, to use as an exsample of a faithful man, or shut up.

Anonymous said...

A priest, a Rabbi, and Warren Jeffs were talking one day and got on the subject of finances.
The Priest said, "Well, in the Catholic Church, we have a committee that determines how much money I need live and gives that amount to me. The rest goes to God."
The Rabbi said, "Well, we do it a little differently than you. We take all the donations and throw it into the air. When it hits the floor. whatever comes up "heads", I keep, whatever comes up "tails" is given to God."
Warren Jeffs cleared his throat and said, "Well we do it differently in our church. My wives and I take the donations and throw it all up in the air. What God wants, He keeps. Whatever hits the floor is mine!"

Men In Black said...

How about Clyde Mackert? I photographed him years later as part of the "God Squad" when he followed me around town. I had Fabian Dawson from the Province Newspaper with me. He was kept within the group for years after publicised abuse.

Johnny Jessop whom I've met, was a convicted abuser, but last time I checked he was not in the state required Sex Offender registry.

Dan Jr did 13 days for doing his daughters, was that serving his time or a sweet heart deal that only the mayors son could have gotten? His he in the state's registry now? Its required of the Police Dept to report or enter such known data, so it comes back to a responsibility of locals to enter the data.

Oh, Sam Barlow, you knew about his relationship or did you? Warren's right hand, whose hands are dirty.

Warren himself took two girls proven to be underage by the birth certificate copies shown in the press by John Dougherty's articles in the New Times, but not yet prosecuted, but then the coward is in hiding! Is what he does illegal? He says it as so on his cassette's, but that the law does not enforce these laws at this time. He says it over and over and over! Are you faithful enough to have listened to these cassettes? Do you deny that Warren himself admits that the "work" violates the law? I can easily prove he is aware that he is breaking the law!

You can observe that Warren has kicked out many today, but he is yet to kick himself out, two for sure were illegal and underage, I suspect several more.

Rodney Holm openly and notoriously returned to mutiple wives after the judge convicted him of bigamy and sex with a minor. I hear tell Rodney is a hero! He is a convicted sex offender and simply continued with his former life after serving his sentence. Rodney was to easy, easily photographed at the Hurricane Maverick store where he would buy snacks before spending 8 peaceful hours sleeping in the Purgatory Jail. His sentence was a joke, he simply got a quiet nights sleep and went home daily. Is he in the states sex registry or listed as being faithful within the FLDS, I would bet so?

How about Flora's dad? Chuck Sullivan of DFS in St. George documented a thick file of his abuses, with no big denials on his part.

Can we only look at those after or before the split, then which split? How about we talk of Jack Knudson the man in a wheelchair? You remember him, he adopted little girls, another are of conflict!

Maybe we can vear off of sex and talk about the beating Robert Williams Jr. took? Yes the POLICE OFFICER another Mr. Holnm, did do what, 6 months for his role in the assault, but is that the type of man we want as a Peace Officer?

Speaking of LE how about a doctrine that teaches that Blacks are Satan's representatives on earth, I have the audio! Then lets say a afro american gets pulled over on the state highway out of Colorado City. Should he fear a peace officer trained by his prophet to consider this man a son of Satan? Would the man fear the officer more if in advance he knew of the narrow doctrine? If he fled the officer and tried to out run the police car, would that not be justified knowing he was hated because of the pigmentation of his skin? Broader issues are raised by Warren's teachings and those who in absolute terms believe in Warren's spoken words. Every comment becomes an edict or commandment. He may not say blood atonement, but when he says pray for a persons distructions night and day without ceasing, that can be interpreted to the faithful as an edict, becoming a dangerous situation.

Putting 100 such concerns here and in writing, with an audience that is invisible is doing no favors to Warren. As with OTS who in his heart of hearts believes a placement of a girl at age 12 is justified, becomes one more example of why gentiles should fear Warren and why a broad stroke of paint, is painting the faithful into the same corner. If indeed you all believe as one, in a doctrine incommon that accepts such as the age of maturity as 12, justified by the catholic version of Mary's age, this commonality of belief will concern the average person.

I dare say, there are gentiles who know more of the documented records of these people, than many within this group. The deposition of Rulon Jeffs is his sworn testimony, it should go without challenge, lest some call him a liar. Warren's audio's in his own voice are also undebateable. But in debating in this blog, facts are not enough to counter belief. What you believe overrides both logic and facts. A document generated by Warren or Rulon will be countered by it was changed or fabricated, leaving both logical people and authorities helpless to offering reason to this complex issue.

Streety does not answer questions nor does he intend to. But in front of an audience of intellectuals, they can judge what is truth and follow the documents vs the hearsay of the truth of both sides. If I put a sex offenders name out here, there is nothing to stop them from searching the states sex offender registry by zip code. Whomever is listed there, becomes a truth as to who is an admitted or convicted sex offender. Those unlisted, but convicted fall into the questions of why are they not listed? Try to put yourself in the shoes of logical minds who want to read Rulons deposition before calling it a fake. Those who scream its a fake first, tell on themselves! You need to first examine information before condeming it. Then when you wonder how others can judge you, read your own objections to facts and information offered here.

If Warren wanted to counter any of the claims against him, he could do it easily . He has hired lawyers to represent him before, he has faced opposition before as well. Maybe in his heart of hearts, he remembers a scene with his nephew, maybe he knows what he committed in his own voice to cassettes and knows two of his 70 some odd wives were underage under the law. Maybe he knows to be judged in this world beyond, he will be found guilty! He obviously knows the law and on audio admits to breaking it. The problem is, he leaves the faithful with no solid ground to stand on. Like Hitler in the end, he may take his own life, trying to say that he is being a MARTYR; (defined)
one who bears witness of the truth, and suffers death in the cause of Christ (Acts 22:20; Rev. 2:13; 17:6). In this sense Stephen was the first martyr. The Greek word so rendered in all other cases is translated "witness." (1.) In a court of justice (Matt. 18:16; 26:65; Acts 6:13; 7:58; Heb. 10:28; 1 Tim. 5:19). (2.) As of one bearing testimony to the truth of what he has seen or known (Luke 24:48; Acts 1:8, 22; Rom. 1:9; 1 Thess. 2:5, 10; 1 John 1

THIS WON'T APPLY IF WARREN DOES IT TO HIMSELF, IF HE WAS SIMPLY SELFLESS, HE WOULD TURN HIMSELF IN AS HITLER SHOULD HAVE.

SELFLESS DEFINED:
altruistic: showing unselfish concern for the welfare of others



I'll list names for you, but in the meantime, work on the names provided. More likely you will ignore the names provided!

As on the other thread, Beth and Colleen were 10 & 11 when married off, tell this audience how that worked! Inquiring minds want to understand this stuff!

Men In Black said...

My sister now deceased was schizophrenic, a friend growing up as well. My parents both worked in adult Special Education working with schizophrenia. My wife is a special education teacher today. There is another purpose here with OTS! He is willing to discuss points of the old doctrine, be it in abstract terms and at times of his own chosing. Its up to others whom support Warren to counter OTS or allow Streety's theology to represent Warren's.

He's a pill and a pain, but the doctrine of marriage at 12 is supported in some of the teachings, but few here are willing to address it as Streety has. Its not perfect, but close! If I state it from the text or audio, its hate monguring, but if its OTS and unchallenged, well the undefined audience gets a window into an otherwise secret society and the parrellel mind of OTS's teacher. Crazy and brilliant may well discribe OTS, but he has served my purpose well so far. Talking about him now, is not not likely to stop him and you know why if you have studied schizophrenia.

MIB

Men In Black said...

I'm not done with Beth and Colleen Cooke just yet, I really think someone from the Creek should elaborate, instead of skirting this issue.

But as I live and breath I was going through my notes and thought I should bring up Jerimiah Johnson and Josh Johnson as ones who dabbled with molesting. Wasn't it Josh that molested a toddler of Copelands? Remember Copeland the guy that kind of rearranged the boy after what he had done to nearly a baby!

We can't talk much about Myrom Jr. because he committed suicide after he did the deed.

If I list 5, 10 or 100 cases will any one answer to a single one of them and acknowledge what court records show?

Anonymous said...

MIB, what you say is interesting reading but:

Nobody said anything about marriage at age twelve. Even OTS didn't.

The Hebrew tradition was betrothal; and it goes without saying that all parties invlolved were honorable, chaste, inspired, and God fearing.

Anything short of that is abuse. Jeffs are a prime example of that.

But all of your pornographic mud-slingling and maligning, to the contrary notwithstanding MIB, is just your own evil brand of political dishonesty; Your own version of politically correct abuse.

What is YOUR motive really? You say it is justice, but do you even understand the justice of God at the fundamental level?

Which laws are just? What is the right "age of accountability" or gender difference and maturity, and freedom of choice? Who should decide? Are we really more civilized? In the last 2000 years did we get it all wrong and only now you (and the feminists) finally figured it out for all mankind?

We should respect the Legislature and our Judicial system, But ex-post-facto law is a big problem. You and your ilk are re-interpreting the laws and morals because you are "more enlightened"?

"When as a society; we preclude the right choices; we can be guranteed that people will make the wrong ones."

After all, what choice should they/we have in a "perfect world" ?

I find it interesting that you pre-suppose anyone who dares disagree with you is somehow criminally insane. You don't say that but you think it.

p.s. I am single. (before you go ballistic)

Anonymous said...

------
Which laws are just? What is the right "age of accountability" or gender difference and maturity, and freedom of choice?
------
oops! Keep your shorts on fellers. I meant gender AGE difference. lol

onthestreet said...

Men In Black said...
My sister now deceased was schizophrenic, a friend growing up as well. My parents both worked in adult Special Education working with schizophrenia. My wife is a special education teacher today. There is another purpose here with OTS! He is willing to discuss points of the old doctrine, be it in abstract terms and at times of his own chosing.

STREET's Reply: This too greatly explains MIB's schizophrenia and some of his crimes. It runs so deeply in his family, as he has just outline to you all.

We're praying for you, buddy.

Anonymous said...

To MIB
I was wondering what you could tell me about Jerimiah Johnson. He was one of my best friends 6 or 7 years ago. I havent heard anything about him or his father in several years.

Anonymous said...

Jay,what about these Anonymous posts threatening Ruth and Street?
I dont think their very serious,but
with Warrens followers,anything is possible.they dont seem to be affecting Street,or Ruth either.

Men In Black said...

Anonymous said...
MIB, what you say is interesting reading but:

Nobody said anything about marriage at age twelve. Even OTS didn't.


Would you like me to cut and paste that dialog? OTS was defending his position based on the idea that Mary was age 12. To go actual with the FLDS and those who splintered from it, Beth & Colleen Cooke were ages 10 & 11. Kenyon Blackmore who like William Black came from this group as a spin off married his biological daughter at age 12. William, one of his four underage brides was 13. Now if we examine rape and incest absent of marriage Chloe Rohbocks daughter was about 5 when Myrom Jr did her, later he committed suicide. Then there was Josh Johnson who did Copelands daughter that was what about 4? Dad beat him pretty bad and dad had to go on trial.

Esther Ruth Chatwin was another young one that was placed in Canada. Her sister Deanna a little older, but still illegal under the law. Then Teresa Wall? Ruby was 14 on April 23rd of 2001, I recorded a call with Joe Junior after she ran and before she was picked up again. Vanessa is another long case and complicated by her fleeing to Canada.

I have a long and detailed list that I plan to address eventually, but the climate is not yet right. There is a big difference between placements vs the molesting that occured. I think if we look at Lorraine and she has since confirmed that she was under age. Samantha Roberta Mackerts daughter took a placement to avoid marrying her step dad Marvin, exampled by her sister Aftn who did marry the man she called father! Marvin was under investigation for incest in West Valley PD File investigation #00-87790 investigated by Detective Rackley.

How about Jannesa? How many should I make public here? After the auto accident Victoria Cooke was in a wheelchair and physical therapy was delayed for religious reasons should I pursue that path.

Take my word for it, the day will come when we will address many cases. When those Geneograms were created in Canada, an extended of them was needed and the schools photo albums helped to create a logue of girls by face, one that coresponded to a approximate age. One problem was that girls were being married off before they started high school. The school albums were high school only.

Then why the interest in the audio cassettes? They identify children by ages and names! The High School graduation at the Alta Academy May 1996! Mary Naylor Musser had two last names, a clue she was likely already married. Sharon Jeffs, Connie Wall, Penny Holm, Karlena Holm, Patricia Keat and so on you get the picture! Can't make geneograms with out accurate information. The School Photo Albums ceased a few years ago, but these cassettes continued. From what I have seen my tapes are 1994 to 2002. Don't get it wrong, this identifies the lost boys as well!

On January 23rd of 2004 the graveyard had 62 unmarked graves photographed by a news crew out of Los Angeles, Ross was busy with his film crew and everyone was buy watching that show. I 'm not saying what occured was other than tragedy, but in a sort of inventory way, I want to know where everyone wound up.

I have more questions than any one here has answers. 500 cassettes makes for well more than 500 questions and I had that many before I started. If you think that you can get rightous on me about the age of consent, you're wrong, I'm not the press you are use to lying too to "Keep Sweet". When the time comes, you can explain and like with Thomas Green we'll do the math! A 28 year old mother, with a 14 year old son, is simple math, with 9 months added in.

For those in Canada maybe Rebecca McKinnley rings a bell? Its not what in my mind, but rather what I have hard data on that should concern some, maybe some here, who still sign their names as anonymous!

ATAR_i said...

What happened to Beth and Colleen. It must be something known, but not spoken. can someone please enlighten me?

Anonymous said...

straight shot, I just have to reply to your proposition that street is a genius. I would counter that he is not really a genius or even all that well read or educated. He just has a lot of time on his hands to google all these words and then he cuts and pastes directly from his source to this blog. He tries to appear brilliant by clouding the issues with definitions, but he errs in trying to make the words stretch to accomodate his point. Case in point: when he was trying to prove that the biblical reference to the "mark of Cain" being black. He came up with mark meaning light and then in his brilliance stretched that to mean "black light" therefore black.

Not exactly the work of a Nobel prize candidate.

Alta Academy Graduate said...

To MIB
I pasted this from one of your former blogs.
"The High School graduation at the Alta Academy May 1996! Mary Naylor Musser had two last names, a clue she was likely already married. Sharon Jeffs, Connie Wall, Penny Holm, Karlena Holm, Patricia Keate and so on you get the picture!"-
I was just wondering if you were meaning that these girls were married before they graduated. Mary Naylor Musser had two names because her mother was a Naylor and her father was a Musser. She was not married before she graduated and neither were any of the other girsl that you mentioned. If my memory serves me correctly I dont think they were any married girls that were still going to school at Alta Academy. I was in the final graduation class and I am related to three of the girls that you mentioned . So I think I have a pretty good idea of what I am talking about. I was just wondering if you are trying to make everyone think that most of the girls were married underage.

Alta Academy Graduate said...

MIB
I was just wondering why you keep bringing up Teresa Wall? What makes you think that she was married underage. I have seen you mention her name a few times. She was not married underage and she wasnt even a plural wife. She married someone just a few years older than she was.

altaacadummy said...

ALTA ACADEMY GRAD:
I also graduated Alta Academy,
what ever came of Kathryn, Suzzanne, and Marianne Wall?
They

Anonymous said...

MIB-
I'll begin by saying that the reports of underage marriages, especially ones as young as 9-15 are appalling. Let's clarify some facts, though. Beth and Colleen are/were Cook not Cooke. Their is a difference. This is important because there are another Beth and Colleen Cooke who were married to Lynn. Let's not confuse our Beth's and Colleen's. Thanks.

ATAR_i said...

What happened to Beth and Colleen Cook

Anonymous said...

It's pretty obvious to anyone who knows anything that MIB's "facts" are mostly just nasty rumors purpetrated by the anti-polygamy activists. He is an expert at "asking the right questions" but his cognitave skills leave much to be desired. The real question is what is is pornographic motive?

Alta Academy Graduate said...

To Altaacadummy

Last I knew Kathryn Wall married Seth Jeffs. She was his first wife. He is Warrens younger brother. Suzzanne Wall was married to Alma Steed. He is Woodruff Steeds son. Marianne Wall is married to Brandon Blackmore and she lives in Cananda. I was just wondering what year did you graduate?

Anonymous said...

Beth Cook was in her 60's, and just passed away in Salt Lake City from health conditions related to diabetes, Colleen is still around, an older lady, I'm not sure how to get contact her.

ATAR_i said...

But what is the hullabaloo - what happened to those two girls (who apparently are now old).

Men In Black said...

What is interesting is that those without a defense accuse me of much. I however offer links for you to do your own research.

Beth Cooke
http://www.slweekly.com/editorial/2001/feat_010222.cfm

While the age of her daughter when she conceived a son is now the focus of the felony child rape charge facing outspoken polygamist Thomas Green, Beth Cooke has dodged state investigators and prosecutors. Her testimony could be key in this high-profile polygamy prosecution that also includes four felony counts of bigamy and one of criminal non-support. Having grown tired of what she calls a witch hunt, Cooke, who has shunned news media, recently approached Salt Lake City Weekly in an effort to tell her side of the story.

She describes dueling emotions of fear and outrage as she watches the case against her daughter and former husband unfold. Meanwhile, she stays one step ahead of agents of the Utah attorney general’s office who would like to depose her for the trial scheduled in May. Her anger is directed toward the state, the LDS church, Juab County Attorney David Leavitt and the private organization Tapestry Against Polygamy. She says those entities are conspiring in a serious attempt to root out polygamy—the first real assault on the religious-based practice of plural marriage since 1953 when polygamists in Utah were rounded up and jailed.

Although authorities have failed to track her down, she has first-hand knowledge of Green’s intimate relationship with her daughter, which began when Linda Kunz was 13 years old. Green has had a number of wives over the years, and is now married to five women he married as teenagers who are now in their 20s. But prosecutors are focusing on Cooke’s daughter because they want to prove that Green had sex with her at age 13 in 1986, violating state law.

Following are some questions that Juab County Prosecutor David Leavitt likely would put to Cooke under oath. Included also are questions that Green’s defense attorney John Bucher would certainly ask as well.

City Weekly: Were you married before you met Tom Green?


Beth Cooke: My first husband had seven wives. We had two children. I was also later married to a man who had one other wife, who was my sister.

Men In Black said...

I believe Aunt Jenny included the story of Beth & Colleen in her 2004 book, "Brainwash To Hogwash" "Escaping and Exposing Polygamy". Most of you from within know Jenny or Genevieve Jessop Larson. For those who are serious email me and I will give out Aunt Jenny's number. I suspect she would of recorded the two.

Ask and ye shall receive, you can't discount this story.

Alta Academy Graduate said...

To MIB
You still havent answered my question about those Alta Academy Grads that you mentioned. You were implying that they were marrried. You also keep bringing up Teresa Wall, what dirt do you think you have on her. She was not underaged when she got married, nor was she a multiple wife. I guess my question is why bring those girls names up if you dont know anything about them, and imply to us all that you know them and their cirrcumstances. I dont know anything about Tom Green or the Cook girls but I do know enough about those Alta Grads to know that you are trying to make every girl from the FLDS group look like they were all married underage. I know you know a great deal about us, but please dont try to make things up to be what they aren't.

Anonymous said...

Hey! you can't win a stinking fight with a skunk. MIB is not interested in the truth, not from Canada to the gulf of Mexico. He is the only guy that has the facts man, and if he doesn't have them he makes them up. That's rational isn't it?

Yup! MIB will go down in history with the rest of the greats. Onthestreet, Flora and Debbie, Ruth, and lest we all forget, that bastion of virtue and honesty, Becky McKinlay. No clever arrangement of rotten eggs will ever produce a good omelot.

Alta Academy Graduate said...

MIB
Are you avoiding my questions? I noticed that you have commented on other threads, so I know you have been on the blog. Why dont you answer them. Too many people believe and respect what you have to say. So make sure you print only the truth instead of implying what might be.

onthestreet said...

UNCLE WARREN! HAPPY FATHERS DAY!

May God bless you forever with faithful children, as numerous as the stars of heaven.

MEN IN BLACK said...

HAPPY FATHERS DAY, UNCLE WARREN
I love you and hope the best for you!

GBNF said...

Streety, what happened to Kathleen Darger?

ogre said...

MIB,
while there are many things wrong, I think you have become quite angry and vindictive to people who are just trying to sort out there lives and have a voice on this blog.
Street: If you are Uncle Bills son, please act more humble like I remember him and stop the rants...

I valued my school years at Alta Academy, there was obviously problems, but I got a good education.I rewmember a lot of people there whom I haven't seen in 10+ years

finally blog admin: love the blog!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Don't feel bad, MIB is planning on going after other groups too. I've seen his posts on other blogs. He just hates us all in general. Unless he's an law enforcement official he spends an inordinate amount of time pursuing this subject.
Are you by any chance John Krackenauer (or however you spell that)? Mind your own business, and let the authorities do their job.

P.G.

Anonymous said...

don't get on the cases of people like Beswick, Krakauer, Flora Jessop, and the like. Orrin Hatch put his foot in his mouth when he said "..show me the evidence.." virtually saying government ain't going to do crap and opening the door wide open for vigilance. blame him.

...besides the welfare of women and children is everyone's business.

keep sweet eldorado
stg

Anonymous said...

To Straight Shot
Who peed in your cheerios. What makes you think that because some of us feel like like MIB is out to screw anybody that is FLDS doesnt mean we love Warren and know where he is hiding. I dont like a think that he is doing or done. I honestly hope that he will be brought to justice and to answer for the things that he has done. So all of the name calling and saying that none of us not having any balls left doesnt do any good either. Some of us have balls. Some of us were able to see that things were getting crazy and we got out with all of our families intact. Can you say the same thing? Some of us actually taught our families to love us, so it was easy for them to stay with us. So just because I dont like SOME of the things that MIB doesnt mean I have skeletons in the closet nor does it mean that Warren is hiding in my backyard.

Anonymous said...

Yeah straight shot calm down and breathe. Of course all those who committ crimes should be punished. And we should help in that effort. My point earlier is he's bound and determined to dig up dirt on all fundmentalist groups, like it's a vendetta or something. The church I go to was mentioned in one of his posts on another blog, about "daily reports coming in". Reports of what? I know these people they are good people trying to live the gosepl, what's his beef? It can't be underage marriage because no girl in our church can be married plurally before 18. It can't be abuse, peoples doings are pretty well known amoung us, so they either repent or leave. Nobody is given a free pass. The story aboout our group in the NOW inspired garbage "God's Brothel" was tame, all the bad things happened to her AFTER she left. Is he going after the Mormon church for their abuse cover-ups?

P.G

Anonymous said...

Straight Shot says,
I keep my cheerios and anyone with the malicous intent to pee in them far apart from each other. That's disgusting - but thanks for being concerned!

So great that you were able to give your wives and children the gift and freedom to love you and stay with you -- they are truly fortunate in this insane time.

But one of the points here is that you don't know MIB. We all claim that we hate it when the press, and them rotten egg advocates don't tell the truth, misunderstand us, and generally force us to think about what we truly believe -- but you're making the same assumptions about MIB that you hate people making about us. So just quite it.
MIB does not hate anyone. He doesn't have a malicious bone in his body. If you met him you would know that and I bet you'd like him.

The only people he guns for are people who deliberately "conspire" to protect anyone who abuse children. You know people who enslave, molest, and do their best to destroy children. And even then if he is personally involved he just tries to get people help.

I haven't read "God's BrotheL" and I don't know if I will - I suppose if someone gave me a copy I might - but I know how it was written and some of the people in the stories.

Why do you call it inspired?? Being sarcastic? Of course it wasn't inspired - hopefully the stories it features were told honestly and accurately.

You are trying to say that ALL THE BAD THINGS THAT HAPPENED TO BETH HAPPENED AFTER SHE LEFT OUR WORK?? Are you seriously trying to tell us that it was OK that she was married at 9 0r 11 -- I don't know which one was the younger one - and I'll admit that -- I think the youngest one was Beth.

It is true -- to the best of my knowledge that that pair of sisters was the only two married that young in our group. But there have been quite a few at 14, 15 and 16. And thats no the point either -- the point is that for some reason you see no connection or responsiblity to the leaders, her first husband and the whole bloody mess -- and the seriously f#$%#$%*& up time Beth had mading choices and decisions after she left???
Splain that to me if you will?? You need to study a lot more about the long term and intergenerational effects of the abuse and how destroyed a girl that age would be after that first "inspired" direction in her life. Some one should try to find out what had happened to her oldest daughter Ruth Johnson??

At least in some of the other screwed up abuses with cults that don't have child abuse one of their main tenants -- they don't pretend it's not there.

Oh I just about forgot. In your group the girls are not allowed to marry until they are 18??? How long has this been the rule? 2 years? 6 months? Last week? Tell the whole truth. There is not statute of limitations on the sexual exploitation of a child by an older multi-married man - especially a teacher, bishop, priest or elder so if there were 17 year olds assigned in our group even 3 years ago to these older men there is still a problem.

And finally -- that 18 year old rule might look good when you're trying to convince CPS and others that the kiddies are safe now -- but I object. There isn't free choice in the 18 year old rule either and that is the whole point to start with. Sure if we're trying to protect older, multi-married men it will be easier if the girls have to be 18 first -- but if a 16 year old falls madly in love with an 18 year old or a 20 year old you'll force them to stay away from each other??
That's cruel.
May God Bless us All.
ps I haven't talked to MIB in months but ask him yourself if he would help victims in the LDS church where the crimes have been covered up.

quiet canadian said...

Where have all the regular contributers gone? Texas eye witness, confused, Polygasaurus, Antique, Native, Sergeant? Polygasaurus Tex we havn,t heard from for a long long time.

Anonymous said...

Exelent post,New kid.The first Sane post,on this blog in some time.Sixteenth Son

Men In Black said...

The argument might be valid if not for the question of denial. When those whom were married underage have already admitted it, what is the point in others denying it? My postings are that Bekin of truth that people with rose colored glasses will always reject.

A good example of why I left Utah, is rumored above baseless and void of facts. Its true I disagree with how Kirk Smith has handled this for atleast 5 years. We were not always at odds, I put him on the front of my newspaper in 1993 and put him on KSL TV the same year when he was running for sheriff, but he lost that first attempt. I was a member of the Washington County Interagency Gang-Drug Task Force with Robert Flowers the head of Utah DPS last time I checked, then the Police Chief of St. George. For 5 years I was a member of the Utah Gang Investigators Association under both Detective Harmon and Hansen. I operated the National Graffiti Information Network Inc. out of unlikely Hurricane Utah and paid my foreign corporation status fees. Lynn Excel the Hurricane Police Chief and I attended neighborhood watch meetings together and D.A.R.E. used some of my training video's on gangs. Search "National Graffiti Information Network" & "Jay Beswick" and you might get educated, maybe not? Rumors are easy and of course that is your response to hard questions, I have already asked.

I don't mind the mud you sling, but I still want my questions answered. Below I have more girls I want to hear you deny were married underage.

All you need to do, is say yes this has happened and we can move on and I might even consider going back to tracking Warren instead of wasting my time here! You see, I have already been contacted by the media who reads this stuff and I think they are capable of checking my sources independent of me, but its still humorous to see several here denying what the press has already researched-verified-reported on. With neither foot rooted in reality, there is nothing I can say or the press can verify and print that the blind faithful can accept. Then the question remains why do we both continue to dialog? Its a game of whom will get the last posting in, the stakes rise higher and higher as each side dumps more and more text into the frey. Yours to deny it all, mine to dig up more data, much from apostates more honest than yourself. There is an audience and I happen to know about half of these. Those I know wanted this months ago, but I wasn't willing to release all I know. With your help, some have gotten more than I intended to release, but its you who determines to what length I will go to offer more supporting data.

Don't you suppose that the story below comparing this unfolding story to a made for TV movie, might of had roots in this Blog?
You compare the story to the thread and tell me, then think about my motive as far as some here are concerned!

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/articles/0622wed1-22.html

VS

THE MOVIE "Warren Jeffs Profit of God"

Tell me this occured and I will back off! Call it a lie and I will throw more supporting documents in to this to prove further these truths. Call it mud slinging, but to prevent it in the future, those in denial have to admit it occured!

Beth and Colleen were married to Elmer Johnson who has been dead 15 plus years. Dan Barlow had a wife who was 11 when he married her. Joe Jessop married Narda when she was 8 years old (that would have happened 30 plus years ago and Joe is now in his 80's. Narda may be dead.) Joe was 16 yrs. old when he married her and she was only eight years old.

Men In Black said...

Get honest and I will go back to other things that need my attendion. Its not about arguing with any one here personally, but rather about qualifying statements made, that some here continue to deny. I have enough audio and trust documents to entertain a silent majority here, some who want nothing more! Just end this and say yes it happened!

Anonymous said...

To MIB
Just end this and say yes it happened! 6/22/2005 1:49 AM

IT HAPPENED! So what!
It goes on still. Question how can it be stopped and who will stop it.

Until these brainwashed mothers and fathers can see the TRUTH, it will still go on behind closed doors.

Can you get any of your sources to testify and put some of these men in jail. I think it time to consider putting some of the underage girls mothers behind bars, also. They are contributors too.

Now moving on....
"Don't you suppose that the story below comparing this unfolding story to a made for TV movie, might of had roots in this Blog?
You compare the story to the thread and tell me, then think about my motive as far as some here are concerned!

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/articles/0622wed1-22.html"

OK MIB motive is for a movie deal? Your mission on this blog is clear to me now.

Now go back to tracking Warren and cut the snake's head off, if you can. Maybe if you catch him you can get a better movie deal.

Anonymous said...

To MIB
If people admitted that these girls were married underage to you, what good would it do. What authority do you represent. You make it sound like we all have to answer your questions and if our answers dont meet what youd expect you call us liars. Why dont you go back to do whatever it is you did, and leave the catching of molesters and warren to the authorities. You know the people whose job is to take care of these kind of issues. Maybe leave it to them and you go back to cleaning up grafiti.

Anonymous said...

....like I said, MIB,

Just because some newspaper printed it, doesn't make it true, now does it? And just because MIB did a little community service a long time ago, (which you were paid hansomely for) doesn't make you a saint. Any criminal can do community service. And any criminal can tell the cops how to track the bad guys, you graffiti conquering hero, you!

And the question of denial???? Hmmm?????

The whole last post was MIB in denial!! "Look over there!! Look at something that happened in the 1930's!! Don't look at Jay Beswick's stinky modern-day poop!!! Look at marriges of people who have been dead for over 20 years, and have nothing to do with the current issues!!"

Deeeeeeniiiiiiial!!!!

Anonymous said...

....like I said, MIB,

Just because some newspaper printed it, doesn't make it true, now does it? And just because MIB did a little community service a long time ago, (which you were paid hansomely for) doesn't make you a saint. Any criminal can do community service. And any criminal can tell the cops how to track the bad guys, you graffiti conquering hero, you!

And the question of denial???? Hmmm?????

The whole last post was MIB in denial!! "Look over there!! Look at something that happened in the 1930's!! Don't look at Jay Beswick's stinky modern-day poop!!! Look at marriges of people who have been dead for over 20 years, and have nothing to do with the current issues!!"

Deeeeeeniiiiiiial!!!!

Men In Black said...

Anon said;
Can you get any of your sources to testify and put some of these men in jail. I think it time to consider putting some of the underage girls mothers behind bars, also. They are contributors too.

In the Stubbs vs Holm case I suggested this with Ruth marrying Rodney. Had the mother and father been charged with Child Endangerment and Child Abandonement, the desire to please verse personal threat of incarceration might of impacted both parents. Remember of course that William Black had taken 2 Stubb sisters underage as well. The parents were repeat offenders so to speak.

The Utah AG chose not to use such laws against the parents and I am unaware of that reasoning, they may of considered things I was not privy too.

Men In Black said...

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/articles/0622wed1-22.html"

OK MIB motive is for a movie deal? Your mission on this blog is clear to me now.

Now go back to tracking Warren and cut the snake's head off, if you can. Maybe if you catch him you can get a better movie deal.

6/22/2005 5:14 AM

You are alittle slow or thick if you think I would benefit from a movie deal. It might offer greater exposure, but in fact I have met with movie producers in 2002 & 2003 who are still considering a production. Having the theology books my role was accuracy only, a concern for the content.

While a movie may or may not occur, its not going to be my doing, but rather others here who have tweaked the interest of movie makers. The gift if you will, is knowing whom the audience is and how they will read much of these postings.

If I posted all of the news stories I read daily, it would shock those here. I post only a few and of course an AP story may run in 100 cities and posting the same story would be pointless. The point is its well spotlighted and its not going away. Whether I post or not, this exposure will continue. I am but a delivery boy and some hate what I am deliverying! I didn't make this bed, nor do I sleep in it, so asking me to fix it, discretely or otherwise, is not my problem.

My issue is more with those agencies that ignored abuses, than those who considered this a way of life. Bringing justice to bear on such agencies, will impact changes in policies and address an issue long overdue.

When you really figure out what I am doing let me know!

Anonymous said...

Straight shot,

Obviously you didn't read my post very carefully, I'm NOT FLDS, never have been FLDS, and never will be FLDS. The story is NOT about Beth or Ruth or whoever, it is about a woman who left and had the bad things happen to her AFTER she left the church I'm with. It's the most tame story in the book and doesn't really fit in with the other stories she relates. So I'm kinda curious about the "daily information" coming in to MIB. Also I said "NOW inspired", NOW stands for the "National Organization of Women", you know...the group that hates men. The author of the trash "God's Brothel" is the Presidenta of the Utah Chapter of NOW, that should tell ya something. So please read my posts a little more carefully before commenting.

P.G.

onthestreet said...

Anonymous Said: You poor Anony mouse souls - 6/21/2005 3:22 AM

STREET's Reply: What did you say?

onthestreet said...

Ain't you anonymous, thus poor?
Anyway, your post was sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

long that I MUST ask you to please repeat it (please). Oh, and your last three posts also.Just as well. We like siesta's.

Anonymous said...

Jt, you smokin crack again??

onthestreet said...

Nay, he's just cracking smoke, like cuttin cheese. Of course, it depends on which end of yall is speaking.