Thursday, June 09, 2005

Idaho House Resolution No. 18 To Study Human Trafficking In Idaho

I have told some of this passed legislation, some denying that it exists, others accusing me of fabricating it. When I contacted Winston some months ago, it was in the lnowledge that a spirit of cooperation was needed to seperate fact from fiction and armed with data largely provided by apostates, the state of Idaho had shared concerns with that of Arizona, Texas and Utah authorities.

States such as Colorado, New Mexico, Montana and Wyoming had also voiced concerns after much exposure and reports in the press. In Idaho a undefined investigation in the year 2000 was occuring by a field office of the FBI near the panhandle area of Idaho. This office and agent requested information which was provided 5 years ago then denied last year by the field office in St. George. The problem was that journalist like Suzan Mazur had interviewed the FBI and in some cases had recorded the dialog to later write the story. When AP requested files via FOIA, the FBI denied the investigation and files, which countered both the testimony of witnesses, informants and members of the media who had completed earlier interviews.

By the time Idaho became concerned of the trafficking stories and rumors, more was known and documented and this included the actions of unrelated independent polygamist. Stories easily searched via GOOGLE like that of Thomas Sliwinski out of Western Montana were in the news and told of independents that dotted the western states. Sliwinski had had dealings with the FLDS when he lived near Apple Valley Utah. He lived close to those in Colonnial LeBaron in Mexico and associated with them, as well as Vance Springs in the West Utah desert which for a time was led by a Timpson spin-off. Vance Springs the location of a shoot out with the local sheriff in the early 1990's over an issue of trespass and squatting rights.

A much broader focus on independents and there association to organized groups, became a concern and has led to interest of or by several states.

The Idaho measure reads "STATING FINDINGS OF THE LEGISLATURE AND AUTHORIZING AN INTERM COMMITTEE TO STUDY HUMAN TRAFFICKING IN IDAHO"

When the question was posed how many FLDS lived in the Boundary County area of Idaho, one unnamed source said he was the only one! Winston was quoted as stating 30-40 and Debbie Palmer placed the number much higher. Like that of stories of a hunting lodge in El Dorado Texas, being lied to triggers concerns, that there is something worth hiding. On this blog I often ask questions that I believe I already have the answers too. The purpose is to test the waters of cooperation and honesty, not to confirm what has already been documented.

On the Canada blog when I questioned how many wives had Winston, I believed it was 27 counting Jane. I had heard at least two had left at Warren's orders and then assumed the numbers to be 24 or less. When Cindi or ? qualified the number at 21, this was ball park close to what was already assumed. Being that countless interviews side step the question, in a time when accuracy counts, the answer is not of any other value than the ability to answer any question honestly. In the A Dr. Phil and A current Affair episodes the question posed again, created an answer of more than 13, less than 20 or so it was recorded and broadcast. Cindi's answer of 21 is close to less than 20, but in demonstrating an honesty in leadership, under the law, 13, 20 or 21 are no more less or more illegal should that issue ever be determined.

Getting back to Idaho and resolution No. 18 issues such as Vanessa and whether she was at risk per the RCMP investigation at the time and the SHARE THE LIGHTS version of January 30th 2005, suggests that there is still a difficulty in answering questions honestly, out of a fear of ???
If authorities posing simple question in an investigation get different answers, the assumption falls back to what else is not being told?

The Legislative order is available and I suggest that some here get a copy. A thread about honesty might be a topic, one that is supported by numerous qoutes in the press. With Vanessa we could only speculate to her safety, but others now quoted knew what we as activist did not. Our accuracy was weakened by those who refused to cooperate 3 years ago, it was not that we weren't willing. Accuracy and oversight has to come from within and wanting self determination and respect is earned when simple questions get honest answers.

Canada can no longer ignore the border crossing issue and the religious charter of Canada, does not have authority over American citizens taken to Canada underage, nor the reverse to the US. This is a new and seperate issue with international ramifications. Lets see how honest we can be address concerns that already exist.

48 comments:

Anonymous said...

You can say nothing in more words than anybody. Escept maybe Alvin Barlow.

Anonymous said...

To MIB
Why are you so determined to find out how many flds related people live in boundary county? If you knew the correct number what would you do with it? Have you ever considered that after all these people have been through, that maybe they just want nothing more than a fresh start. They are finally free of Warren so why dont we just give them a break and let them live their own lives in peace.

Anonymous said...

Oh, Shut Up!

Anonymous said...

It sure looks like MIB is trying to take over this whole blog. His name is at the bottom of most of the threads. Over half of the comments seem to be either by MIB or Streety. It sure is a pain wading through these guys BS trying to find something worth reading.

Anonymous said...

MIB must of hit the lottery and can spend time posting all day and night.

OR hawking his Warren's Ephemera & Documents have bought him new wealth. Maybe he will make a donation to Ruth Cooke Foundation and she can finish her house.

You must admit he is creative!

Anonymous said...

I hope his novel is more interesting.

Anonymous said...

Seriously. Why not just start your own blog or something. It's free for crying out loud. Then we wouldn't have to scroll through pages and pages and pages of this stuff.

Anonymous said...

I do not think Ruth Cooke wants a foundation. I am not sure she wants your money, or your sympathy. I think that what someone said about wanting left alone, is closer to the truth. OUr lands have been under seige. OUr religion has been under attack. Our prophet has been slandered and mocked across this nation. What makes you people think that Ruth Cooke wants your money or your sympathy? Men in Black, GO TO YOUR BLACK HOLE AND STAY. TAKE FLORA AND HER FILTHY SHOW AND GO HOME. LEAVE US ALONE.

Anonymous said...

Oh, honestly Ruth. MIB didn't even mention Flora. Why are you so obsessed with her? Maybe you wish she'd give you a little more attention. Every time you post you mention her name. Give it a little break.

ATAR_i said...

Flora has a show? MIB has a hole? Somebody doesn't want money?

I was really upset about some things myself. This guy, he like, marries little girls off to old men who already have wives.

And, well, these pseudo husbands, don't support their families, they want me to (but I guess thats *not* my business)

And sometimes they all rearrange and get married to other people and other fathers, and everyone changes their names and who they sleep with. Lordy, how did I get to be the filthy one?

So yeah, I TOTALLY understand ya bud.

Anonymous said...

And like I said, I do not think that any one wants your sympathy or your money. And it is common Knowledge that Flora is a lier. Men in Black go home and enjoy what you have. Leave us alone!

Anonymous said...

I am one of the people who moved up here to Idaho. What's happening up here is is a non story. To think that we are involved in human trafficking is way out there and a slap in the face to our border patrol people and local law enforcement. They know who we are and see most of us on a weekly basis. We get up in the morning and go to work and then come home to our families at night. Pretty boring. I have read some of the newspaper articles, some which quote Debbie. and they try to make a big story but there is not much truth to what I have read so far. One article in The Kootenai Times said several of Warren,s followers were moving over here. How could all these illegal people live here without the border patrol or police knowing who they are or where they live? I was one of the first to leave CC. I have been here for several years and not one person has been married on this side of the border since we parted ways with Warren. There are just a few families who just want to live our lives in peace and treat others the way we want to be treated. Most of us don't read the articles about us but we hear about them from people we know. Very few facts.Lots of sensationalism. Don't look for child brides here. We are not that people. I have most of my relatives still living in CC or Texas. I still love them very much and hope the best for them. Most of the people in and around Bonner's Ferry are absolutely wonderful people. Helpful and friendly. Bonner's Ferry was voted by tourists as Idaho's most friendly city. We just want to be good citizens and neighbors in this beautiful part of the world. We want to be left alone.

Anonymous said...

Straight Shot
I gotta tell ya Anonymouse, You must be gettin real nervous about what MIB's got recorded, posted, and filed as evidence. You're insecurities are showin'

You really needta figure out where ta find some kinda hole to hunker down in--AND HIDE. MIB might getcha!!

When all ya can do is attack with no point then ya have proven your own point.
You have no point!!!

Anonymous said...

I am a Canadian but I know all of the people You are talking about in Idaho. No Warren Followers

Anonymous said...

No point like the one at the top of MIB's head anyways.

Anonymous said...

Best shot -
You mean to say that none of those poor refugees from Warren Jeffs Conshentrittion Camps and purges have more than one wife?? None of them get to have more than one wife?? Thats right-if they follow Winston's new educated ways the girls will all be 18 before they get to procreate. And they will all graduate. Good news!
We'll send out the notice that the Great State of Idaho can stand down - nothing illegal happening here. We don't have to ask the States of Utah, Arizona, or Texas to stand down. They haven't stood all the way up yet. Forget about Polygamy. They can't protect buildings let alone children deal with the child abuses- and they'll never know what Warren really has in that temple.
Giddyup Texas!!!
God save us.

Anonymous said...

I'm confused... are the people in Idaho part of a commune or are they living independent of a prophet?

John

Men In Black said...

Pointed head aside, Idaho created House Resolution 18 without my help! What is desired is for the brave in here to come forward and be honest, nothing more. This is like cheerleaders for Warren!

When Warren was incharge everyone in Canada swore allegiance to him, they had to. Just 3 years later, you have a new regime and the old one has been erased or so is stated. The loyalty did occur and all particpated or Warren would of ousted them. The regime is still intact through Jimmy Oler.

Geoff Plant your AG, Carol Anderson a relative and your INS, along with Ron Barton the former Utah investigator of closed societies were documented on CBC TV, the Fifth Estate as considering the crossing and migration a serious problem. Add Gail Gneckow of the FBI stationed in Idaho and concerns Idaho shares with Texas and this is a time of execising honestly, not one of "Circling The Wagons". If there is nothing to hide, then hide nothing "Anonymous"? Seems like Dr. Phil's son said something like this to Hildale Mayor David Zitting!

Wifes and children were routinely resassigned and this continues, this could of been you three years ago. Had activist not defended those leaving, seeking protection for them, not all would of made it. Now that you are out, its shut the gate let us live our lives and Warren his, inspite of the law and victims still trapped, some as you say your family!

October 31st 2002 Halloween night a CP girl was hit by a truck driven by an unlicensed Steed boy, the girl was life flighted to a SLC hospital. Inspite of this knowledge of a crime and victim, Centennial Park people refused cooperation to avoid oversight. A young child raped and a week later a 14 year old boy commits suicide having done the deed! With such occuring and this people saying leave us alone nothing occurs within this society is simply those believing their own lies.

Ruth Cooke? I know Jack Cooke and what he did to his daughters, I know him personally, he's been to my home and told his story in detail. Other molestors like Johnny Jessop convicted! How about Clyde Mackert? Mayor Dan's son spoke of her, got just 13 days in jail. Do you really want me listing all who have a police record tied to them listed here?

Whether you say you are a new people or not, you participated with the Warren Regime when he was in control and now want eveyone concerned to just evaporate, but few here are beating a path to Gary's trailer in CC to identify crimes still being committed. There is alot of whining here, but anonymously which does not topple the corrupt administration of which 3 years ago all here of the faith participated in.

Legislation in Texas, a bill in Idaho and Ottawa, Canada's center of government growing nervous as Warren continues to make press has created a climate where scrutny is here. On or off this blog, its not going away. I could ask how many have copies of the Idaho resolution and is it better to know what is occuring in this window I contribute to or would you be more comforted with your head in the sand believing no such state document exists? Maybe the Texas legislation is a fabrication as well? Atleast I was honest and some here are forewarned! I didn't draft the Idaho or Texas legislation, but some here are offering me a lot more credit than is do me.

Someone in Winston Camp was sent part of this legislation as a courtesty, so get together and compare notes before your next flame, Warren was really pretty wise in restricting internet access and appointed one man as spokesman, formerly being Mayor Dan Barlow. It left less for Warren to disclaim. If authorities are following this, will uncle wink want to disclaim or qualify these debates later, I wonder?

Anonymous said...

Rather than debate MIB, Mike Nugent is the legislative service analyst for resolution no. 18, this can be requested at;

Office of the Attorney General
State of Idaho
700 West Jefferson Street, Room 210
P.O. Box 83720
Boise, ID 83720-0010

Quit babbling, request a copy and see if it matches what MIB has stated. If he lied, as he put it FLAME him, if he told the truth, apologize or use his hole to crawl into.

The online link is here;
http://www3.state.id.us/oasis/HCR018.html

If you worked for me, I would fire the lot of you, as he offered more than enough to verify his claims. If you want to fight him, do it with facts or don't waste our time.

CEO

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
MIB must of hit the lottery and can spend time posting all day and night.

That leeds to the next question, I am interested in how he makes his living and how he can spend so much time here, but what about every one else? With all I have read, tax dollars support this lifestyle. Food stamps, WIC, Medicare, public assistance and various forms of welfare, refered to here as "bleeding the beast". Can taxpayers assume that MIB has used less taxpayer dollars to post here, than those that have the time to complain here? What was it you said you did for a living?

According to Mohave county online, for every $1.00 in tax revenue taken from Colorado City, $8.00 worth of services are returned. Can it be that taxpayers are paying the biggest complainers here to "dis" any one who disagrees with them?

MIB or Beswick is involved in Murals;
http://www.lamurals.org/MCLATechnical/Beswick1.html

Apparently Graffiti Control;
http://www.nograffiti.com/grafnews/6_04/vandalistic_terrorism_to_exceed_.htm

Various City Programs;
http://www.sanjoseca.gov/prns/Tipsforbusinessesfactsheet2.pdf

National Graffiti Prevention Programs;
http://www.graffitihurts.org/learn_more/prevtips.cfm

Posibly his own non profit;
http://www.liftoffinc.com/press.asp

Maybe an author?
http://governing.com/archive/1994/aug/graffiti.txt

Sells on ebay, etc.
http://www.aimlesswords.com/listings/39691.php

Offer a real name I can GOOGLE search and lets see what the internet says about you? hmm...

I don't see that he won the lotto or is on the government dole, so what about you? Do I pay for your time here? WIC? Food Stamps, etc.?

CEO

Anonymous said...

And Jack Cooke has not been in contact with the people he molested for twenty eight years, so the government could not have been completelly terrible. I agree, they should change the laws and not let mollesters out of jail. But then nobody cares about that, right? Just stopping a church. Just feeding a nation lies, so you can have your war. What is wrong with the people in Idaho haveing all the enjoyment out of life they can get? go home men in black.

Men In Black said...

Jack I believe lives with his brother Lynn, who is still local to the Arizona strip.

I did not draft the Idaho legislation, but I was asked to comment on it. The recent dialog with members of the Canada group was to gauge whether an honest communication could exist. I'm not sure it can. Some where between Winston and Debbie is that line of truth and clouded by secretcy, that truth will have to be determined not by a novice like me, but with professionals that have investigative authority.

When I ask for info on girls that exist who may of been placed illegally, I am a pinhead, stupid and someones floor mat because I asked and because I was concerned.

If I was to be writing a report to be turned into the state of Idaho on behalf of FOR KIDS SAKE, what do you suppose I might report on the level of cooperation here? If any one has downloaded this dialog to later review it, cooperation and or honesty is not the words that come to mind that discribe this question and asnwer exercise.

Idaho does need my opinion, they can read the blog like everyone else. Nothing to hide? Then why the hostility?

Stinger said...

MIB,
Everyone in Canada didn't swear allegiance to warren.

ATAR_i said...

OK - everyone keeps telling MIB to go home - it's 'none of his business' - but it is, and it's MINE too.

1. You burden the taxpayer by your agressive procreation, and lack of support by biological parents.

2. You flagrantly disregard the laws of the state with polygamy, and bring others up (again by agressive procreation) to disobey these laws. Then you form your own cities, elect your own representatives who also disregard the laws they are sworn to uphold, in the nation that they live. This is a sort of Dominion Theology. You tax the resources of the state and the goverment to reign in your disobedience to the law, and prosecution of the offenders.

3. You allow abuses to occur which hurt others, oftentimes the most vulnerable in society, the very young. You marry them off without consent, you throw them away, you deny them medical care, they are molested, they are abused (not all - but some). Dealing with these abuses also requires funds of the local, state and federal government, not to mention the pain inflicted upon the innocent - who are sometimes not even aware how hideously they have been wronged.

WE WON'T GO AWAY, This land is our land, as much as yours, our resources as much as yours. ANYONE WHO PAYS TAXES and lives in the US should care about the abuses occuring on a portion of our great country.

We aren't going anywhere, so let's figure out how we can live here together.

Anonymous said...

Straight Shot Says,
As far as the refugees from Warren's Group who live now in Idaho - It is plain to read in the different infoemations availble. Shem Johnson is Winston Blackmore's Bishop in Idaho and Duane Palmer is his Bishop in Bountiful. Winston Blackmore is taking a back seat in the Bishop department but you are doing pretty good when you have two Bishop's under you whom you can direct the "obedient few" to pay their tithes to.

I believe Winston is taking the road he is telling us was travelled by the kinder, gentler, venerated prophet Leroy JOhnson. There are some of Antique Morman's who remember that era very well. And hope for the sake of all those who will end up going to him for "advice and gentle direction" on the marriages that he will have the guts to stand up and tell his followers when people start lying to them.
Instead of trying to blame it all on the old teaching that, "my sheep know my voice and a stranger they will not follow." And, "MY isn't it marvellous that the prophet is able to help cleanse our people - what a plan that the prophet would go along with the false apostles just to see who would believe the lies and BE DAMNED!"
Well that is a hell of a way to guide and direct a people - especially when you check down the road 25 years and try to chase the monsters that have been birthed from that cowardice!
Any one who is Fundamentalist Polygamous MORMon will have a leader. Winston should claim his people -- I'd be feeling real bad about now if he kept refusing to say that I belonged to his clan/family/groupl. An awfully lonely place to be - and what about the children!!!

Scary.
I happened to be in on the celebration when Winston Blackmore was given his Patriarchial Blessing where he was told that he had been "foreordained to be an Apostle of the Lord." I know many others who have believed it - and I know he believes it.

So when do you stand up and say - yes I accept my calling from God and will lead my people.
It is time.
God Save Us All

GBNF said...

Straight Shot:
God save you! Why do you need a man between you and God? Can you not ask God for help on your own? Can you not make life decisions with your own sense of wrong and right? We were all born with that basic ability. Stop looking for a "leader"! Pray to God by yourself. Stand up and take responsibility for your own life. It is people like you that give people like Warren power!

ATAR_i said...

I believe Winston's a better man that warren - however, don't be so quick to rush under another mans authority. Listen to GBNF, talk to God. A true leader never led anyone elses life (but his own). He was never asked to by God - this is all MAN made.

Think about rendering unter Caesar the things that are Caesars. You live in a land where polygamy is illegal - think about choosing a different path - or moving to a middle eastern country where you will not break the laws of the country.

I encourage anyone considering beginning the lifestyle - or staying in it to do some independent research on Joseph Smith, and just how he came up with this revelation (which he allowed his wife to burn initially). If you're going to break the law to practice it - better do some research on this prophit - I mean we all know prophets can go bad - RIGHT?

Anonymous said...

STATEMENT OF PURPOSE

RS 15086

*This resolution would direct the legislative Council to appoint
an interim committee to study Human Trafficking in Idaho and to
make recommendations to the legislature in 2006. Following
passage of the Trafficking Victims Protection Act of 2000 and the
2004 national conference on trafficking, the Department of
Justice asked states to develop anti-trafficking legislation in
order to partner with the federal government to protect victims,
prosecute perpetrators and prevent trafficking.

Any one here consider that MIB may of been asked to sit on this committee? If he has baited this dialog and then downloaded it to be given to this state committee, I 'd be more than concerned how I approached him and his questions.

Its none of my business, but this legislation was a model from HR3244 according to Idaho, passed in the year 2000, authored by Senator Brownback, when did MIB say he started in this issue? Was it also around the year 2000?

Men In Black said...

Someone personal emailed me regarding more info on the Thomas Sliwinski story and connection. The links below tell his story, including the "Book of Thomas" that he is hocking. He married his two step daughters and made 10 children with them, they married him at 13 & 14 years young, sounds like another Thomas we all know. He spent time in Vance Springs UT, Apple Valley Utah, along with Colonial LeBaron in Mexico. He now hangs with former Hildale player William Black in Mexico. He fled a court order in Montana, taking his children with him to Mexico. He's a piece of work, not the kind of spokesman the independent polygamist need.

http://editorialmatters.lee.net/articles/2004/10/31/stories/top_stories/9znews075.txt
http://www.helenair.com/articles/2004/11/23/helena/a01112304_05.prt
http://www.polygamyinfo.com/plygmedia%2003%20208mt.htm
http://www.polygamyinfo.com/plygmedia%2003%20207mt.htm

For Thomas book of sexual exploits; http://books.lulu.com/content/113047

Someone here wants to turn it around, can help authorities bring this one to justice. We can take a break from picking on Warren! I have dozens like Thomas and the independents out number the organized groups.

By the way, Mr. Sliwinski uses El Paso Texas as his mailing address, chalk another one up for Texas.

GBNF said...

Statement of Purpose:
If you have done nothing wrong then why worry about a committee set up to "prosecute perpetrators and protect victims"?

Anonymous said...

Interesting point, I wish I had said that!

Touche' gbnf
~If you have done nothing wrong then why worry about a committee set up to "prosecute perpetrators and protect victims"?~

Canadian Bishop said...

gbnf & Atar-i, it is true, everyone needs to have their own personal relationship between them and God. However, in all religious organizations, churches, etc. there needs to be a succesion of leadership. People need someone they can count on to council with. Any organized group needs someone to direct. I believe Winston makes a great leader, because he doesn't draw the people to himself. He councils them to look to God.
atar-i it is time for you to stop bashing Joseph Smith. I used to enjoy your comments because you seemed to be an intelligent blogger. Now you give no consideration to the feelings of others. You may not be a part of us, but this blog is about us. We as Mormons have a lot of love and respect for the teachings of Joseph Smith. Please show some consideration.

ATAR_i said...

Dear Bishop:

While I do agree that men who are teachers, and leaders are supposed to provide wise council and teaching, I have reservations.

You might/might not have heard of the 'Discipleship Movement' in the protestant sector. I DO happen to have some erudition in that arena. It's similar, in that it has a heirarchy. A pastor cannot personally lead 2,000+ people, so other men are given the task as well, they report to him.

After experiencing this, having my whole family involved, some family still, I really have to say - I'm not a fan.

Everyone I know who is still in this movement feels a superiority to regular Christians, that they have an understanding of the 'kingdom of God' that you or I don't possess. They are nice and they tolerate you - but you really 'missed the boat' if you just go to regular church.

I won't go in to the similarities between the two, but I've seen it enough times with my own eyes to realize that when a man submits to another man, and lets that man make all of his difficult decisions for him, counsels him to act in certain directions, that both men lose something.

The leader begins to feel superior, and proud, the follower begins to lose his ears to hear God.

So, I go to church, I respect my pastor, but my daughters dates will never ask him FIRST if they can date my daughter - THAT'S HER FATHERS DECISION. (example)

As for Joseph. I followed leaders blindly - I did, I accepted all that they said without question, until the day I knew for myself that the things they said in public, and the things they said in private - neither matched the heart of God - the God of the Bible.

OK - I have been hard on Joseph, but, how different from warren is he? I guess after I read his wifes diary, and the diary of the little girl who he married whose father he tormented I really just thought he was a little nutty.

The BOM is just a work of fiction acording to Mormon Archaelogists. The Nephites and the Lamenites were NEVER from Israel - they did not have the minerals and foods in this part of the world that they mention - it's all just made up.

People cannot say that about the Bible - they cannot disprove one jot or tiddle. Every Archaelogical find substantiates it's truth. I believe in that book.

ATAR_i said...

That said - I don't want to get into a BOM/JS discussion - and I'll try harder not to make that the issue - because it's not (at least on this blog)

ex creeker said...

U R Right!
In any organized religion you have someone between you and God?
Why do you need the buffer?

Eye Witness said...

Dear Bishop:

You should read the cover page of this blog again. It is about polygamy and the impact it is having here in Texas. I don't believe it was intended to be pro or anti Joseph Smith. So, just as you have the right to believe he was a prophet of God, others of us have the right to believe otherwise. If our beliefs are offensive to you, then please understand, that we are equally offended when you denegrate our beliefs.

IMHO we wouldn't be troubled with Warren Jeffs now if more people had been able to recognize Joseph Smith for the charlatan he was. As I said, it's my opinion only, but I have as much right to mine, as you have to yours.

Be you a Bishop, or a prophet, I care not one whit. I answer not to you, but to God.

Anonymous said...

Those in the media, activist or those willing to be noted on the trafficking issue, can make the contact below;
Wagner, Steven
Director of Trafficking (202) 260-1853 swagner@acf.hhs.gov

They will ask for you to ID yourself, so it is not an ANONYMOUS type contact source! Be forewarned

Anonymous said...

Why are you all so anxious that Winston declare himself leader? I was talking to him one day and he was just as sick of the leader thing as we all are. Warren has made being a leader among FLDS thinking people to be a very undesirable undertaking. All I have seen Winston be is a family man and friend to literally everyone. I have been looking at these things and I don't think you know him MIB. If you are really a man named Jay Beswick, then he speaks rather highly of you. Good thing he doesn't look at these blogs anymore(in his words they are just contentious and have lost their thoughtfulness) or he might change his mind about you MIB. He doesn't want us to criticize anyone and I know that he doesn't waste any time griping about you, onthestreet or Warren for that matter.

ATAR_i said...

Be forewarned - sounds almost like you should feel scared to identify yourself.

Did you really mean to scare people when you posted that information?

What if you had said - It's not anonymous - FYI - they want to know who you are so they can contact you if they need to, would have accomplished the same thing - why the scare tactic?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Those in the media, activist or those willing to be noted on the trafficking issue, can make the contact below;
Wagner, Steven
Director of Trafficking (202) 260-1853 swagner@acf.hhs.gov

They will ask for you to ID yourself, so it is not an ANONYMOUS type contact source! Be forewarned

6/12/2005 4:35 PM

Having called this number, they required that imput include a verifiable name to be added to the file and investigation. Many here have a well deserved voice, but can be anonymous without issue. I suspect the author knew that some might assume that this agency might be confused if blog rules are applied. Hello, I disagree that this is about trafficking minors, MY NAME? Ah can't I be anonymous!

They asked many questions and defending either side needs witnesses that won't hang up on the interviewer.

ATAR_i said...

OK, so you want them to be prepared - I got it.

I'm staying anonymous too (my parents weren't cruel enough to name me atari).

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Why are you all so anxious that Winston declare himself leader?


I think the point is that one day soon, Winston will be the new broom/shepherd that officiates all marriages and placements. He will replace Warren in effect, because the religion requires a leader.

The postings here indicate that MIB feels lied to based on emails the two apparently exchanged. Having been bored to tears with the Bob Curran battle with Flora and the Childbrides group, MIB or Beswick retained every single one of Curran's emails that were interesting to say the least. I would assume that Winston could shed light at your end to what this friction was.

The blog posting placed the RCMP investigation in opposition with a story on the "Share The Light" web site. There was something posted about Winston being interviewed on this subject by the Utah investigators.

MIB eluded to something about an attorney named Vaughn Marshall, maybe Winston can identify whom this lawyer is and why Beswick thinks there is a conflict here.

I have seen the documentary spoken of done in Canada by a woman, cant remember her name, but it was called the Fifth Estate? Must mean something in Canada and I remember Winston saying that he had married no girls underage. Then on this blog there is an admission of maybe 2 girls. The truth by the word of not just a religious leader, but one who will replace Warren in placement of marriages as leader holds greater authority and his ability to be honest, is the issue I believe at stake here.

Since Bishops exist, with tithing taken in, there is a structure and having bought a half dozen audio's from MIB, he makes an interesting arguement. I do wonder how and why he selected the 6 tapes I purchased? Apostasy, Polygamy Required, Gentiles, the Negro Race, War Upon The Nations and one about buying up lands, each very compelling in the words of the one who would be king (god).

It stikes me that based on Warren's teachings, all of the FLDS were by word of mouth, loyal to Warren's teachings. If you disagreed, it was not voiced and underage placements likely did occur in Canada as well as the states. When a people in fear can not callenge what was wrong by your own admissions, 5 years ago, how can any one here believe you have the free agency now, should one day Winston require of you the same, as Warren once did and still does with those still loyal to him?

Listening to Warren's own voice, I am shocked that so many could blindly follow this, except for it was taught to you from birth. Rejecting Warren now could be real, but I have heard the phrase "KEEP SWEET" and understand more of its meaning. To insulate the belief lying has been justified and KEEPING SWEET has a double meaning.

In text this story is not easy to write, though quoting Warren for me has a new meaning, I now have several hours and can't decide what I want to use.

onthestreet said...

ADMIN:

I'm trying to create my own thread on my own, so I can edit my thread as needed. I emailed you about this over a week ago, but no response. So I posted my request on several threads. Still no response. Did you die, are you okay?

Now I know that you emailed me back, and this is what you said:

Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 09:11:03 -0500
From: "Texas Polygamy"
Contact Details
Subject: Re: STREET

Sorry, only admn...or users with admin authority can delete posts. There is no need to copy and paste old posts simply to keep them at the top. If they are old posts, let them cycle off to the archives.
Weblog Admin

ADMIN: I'm not trying to "keep posts on top. How vain is that? Just need to be able to edit my own thread, you see?

Now, I clicked on the red blog logo in the upper left corner of the blog page, and got the next page, but there was no green plus sign. So I need admin authority to edit my own thread, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. How about it?

Hey, maybe you don't read all the threads, I don't know. Tell you what: I'll post this request on all the threads, so you'll see it.

Thank you Sir.
Street

Anonymous said...

6/13/2005 5:04 PM said: When a people in fear can not callenge what was wrong by your own admissions, 5 years ago, how can any one here believe you have the free agency now, should one day Winston require of you the same, as Warren once did and still does with those still loyal to him?

Reply: I believe this is a concern for many of us who are still affiliated. I am going to make my best shot at an answer, as I have answered it to myself. What makes us think that as a larger society we won't fall prey to another Hitler? My answer: Hitler. We as humans do tend to learn from our mistakes, but there is never a guarantee that like situation won't happen again. For those who have admitted that there was a problem, that we were controlled by fear, that we did not dare speak out, that we are embarrassed by our own behaviour in relationship to the whole sick, sad scenario, for those of us who have looked the monster in the face, we stand a better chance of not falling for it again if Winston or anybody else was to try to exercise unrighteous dominion. In a sense, we are still be controlled by fear - the fear that we might forget how bad it really was/is. The worst problem with Winston is that he tends to make us feel a little hope that perhaps we can survive the trauma of it all and move on and make something good of our lives. He gives us the idea that, Warren not withstanding, we should regain our faith in mankind and in God. That vision may possibly cause some of us to become complacent again. Other than that, I do not believe we will go there again because we are different. We grew up just a little.

onthestreet said...

ADMIN:

I TRIED TO MAKE MY NEW THREAD AGAIN. NO GREEN PLUS. TELL YOU WHAT, I WON'T POST THIS IN ALL THE TREADS, BUT I DO NEED TO GET YOUR ATTENTION SOMEHOW. I'LL LIMIT MYSELF TO EVERY OTHER THREAD.

THAT BETTER? HELL, TELL ME WHAT'S UP.

I'm trying to create my own thread on my own, so I can edit my thread as needed. I emailed you about this over a week ago, but no response. So I posted my request on several threads. Still no response. Did you die, are you okay?

Now I know that you emailed me back, and this is what you said:

Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 09:11:03 -0500
From: "Texas Polygamy"
Contact Details
Subject: Re: STREET

Sorry, only admn...or users with admin authority can delete posts. There is no need to copy and paste old posts simply to keep them at the top. If they are old posts, let them cycle off to the archives.
Weblog Admin

ADMIN: I'm not trying to "keep posts on top. How vain is that? Just need to be able to edit my own thread, you see?

Now, I clicked on the red blog logo in the upper left corner of the blog page, and got the next page, but there was no green plus sign. So I need admin authority to edit my own thread, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. How about it?

Hey, maybe you don't read all the threads, I don't know. Tell you what: I'll post this request on all the threads, so you'll see it.

Thank you Sir.
Street

Anonymous said...

Give it up STreety, you are just a stray dog that has to always be on a leash.

Anonymous said...

Anyone questioning what the definition of "trafficker" is? Is it solely on intent? Seems that it would be very difficult to enforce, especially if all parties are willing participants. Trafficker is also code word that would equate polygamy with sex slavery. Linking the two seriously defames polygamy and CPM.

Anonymous blogger from NE Texas and land of original LDS colonies of Kelsey, Latch and Enoch

onthestreet said...

UNCLE WARREN! HAPPY FATHERS DAY!

May God bless you forever with faithful children, as numerous as the stars of heaven.