Monday, May 16, 2005

People and Places

Any information on businesses and people would be most helpful.


rumor-has-it said...

I understand that as many as 20 truck drivers in Las Vegas, NV donate their Saturday's pay. Let's do the math 20 drivers x $80 approx/hr x 10 hr day = $16000.00 a weekend. Not bad! The drivers go without the things they need, so that they can build up Zion.

Anonymous said...

They aren't the only ones who donate their Saturday pay. Everyone you see on the construction jobs in Las Vegas, Mesquite and St. George are also dontating their Saturday pay. Also everyone in the local machining shops etc. It adds up to a pretty hefty sum along with the monthly $1000 fee for remaining in good graces. Poor family members. Hafta live without shoes or food this month. Gotta pay "God".

Anonymous said...

So what is happening with the Colorado City School District? I hear that they have a new law in Arizona that dissolves the district, and replaces the adminstration and board with a "receiver".

When does all this happen, and who do they expect to be the "receiver"?

What happens to all the folks working at the school district?

What happens to the second-ward kids and teachers?

Is there a lot of shredding going on there?

Will there be an airplane for sale cheap?

How will the first-ward economy recover from the loss of 100 high paying jobs?

Faithful Woman said...

100 high paying jobs is nothing compared to what warren has done to the economy.

Faithful Woman said...

Yes a reciever has been chosen and is expected to take over soon. It may have been in the news, or will be shortly.

Anonymous said...

Is it true that Bill Shapley was allowed to return to his family? Did he really get all his wives back?

Anonymous said...

So here's your chance for a scoop, Faithful Woman.....

Who is the receiver?

Anonymous said...

The law was signed by the AZ Govenor Janet Napolitano last week and it goes into effect 90 days after the Legislative session closes. I am not sure when that is, but it is soon, because they are pretty much wrapping up things in the Legislature.

It appears that Mike File, the Mohave County School Superintendent, will become the Receiver for the CCUSD. This is probably a good thing because he knows how absurdly this district has been managing its finances and he has been complaining about it for some time.

More than likely, all of the teachers will stay, but probably most of the ancillary staff that is "fluff" will eventually go. Those "fluffers" are the ones that made the whole situation so ridiculous and have caused so much of the school district being so over budget. Of course, the Cessna didn't help things, nor the fleet of school buses - twice as many as they would ever need to transport students. You don't need 100 school employees for 300 students. Plain and simple. The "fluffers" are the FLDS folks. There will have to be meetings and hearings first to see who stays and who goes.

You can read all about the school situation on this web site - In fact, you will learn more than you probably EVER wanted to know about the FLDS on this web site.

Anonymous said...

To 5/18/2005 8:09 PM

Isn't crazy Bob Currans website?

Anonymous said...

Isn't crazy Bob Currans website?


Anonymous said...

Besides that, there is a lot of good people working at the school. I think the ones who do nothing, should indede be fired, and there should not be discrimination, between churches. Help the child bride is crazy bobs web page, and he is Flora Maes stuge. Both are liers.

ATAR_i said...

I don't get it - why the animosity towards Flora. She wants to HELP LITTLE GIRLS who are being married off to someone they don't want to marry. Since when does helping little girls earn you such hatred (oh I supposed if your an old man who wants that little girl - yeah - you'd hate her). Anyone who hates Flora is WHACKED

And Same goes for Bob - 'Help the Child Brides' - yeah - since when does helping little girls from losing their virginity to a older man who wants another wife earn such hatred (oh yeah - if your a father whose daughter is helped - probably means your standing with the prophet will drop dramatically - oh...and you might not get another little wife yourself).

Sorry for the pot shots - but stop jabbing two people in the community who were WILLING TO STAND UP against Jeffs when everyone else wouldn't.

Bravo for Flora and Bob

Anonymous said...

Ruth, do we need to put your thread back into the current lineup?

Anonymous said...

Since when does kidnapping children equate with "helping" the girls? When anyone else in America would be put in prison for taking underage children away from their parents, Flora is made a heroine? It seems to me that vigilantism has problems all of its own.

Part of the problem also seems to be that she "helps" to meet her own agenda. When the two Fawns decided they might want to go home, they get put on national television to talk them out of it. If her purpose is to help kids be where they want to be, how does the whole "Dr. Phil" thing stack up? It's more if they want what makes her look good. . .

Also, I heard that one of the Fawns got pregnant while under Flora's tender care. Does anyone know how true this story is?

Anonymous said...

And do not supose that because some one does not like Flora and Jim, that they are automatticly Ruth. Every one in southern Utah, and northern Arizonia, KNOW THEY ARE LIERS. WHO DID SHE REALY HELP? Is stirring people up to riots by lies help. I think it helped her drug habit.

Anonymous said...

Sorry there. It's just that you spell like Ruth, you reason like Ruth, and you obscess like Ruth. You probably even smell like Ruth. But I apologize if I mis-labeled you. . . ruth-ette.

Anonymous said...

not only did she kidnap them, she brainwashed them too
I mean, what kind of wicked bitch would teach such young girls about human rights and freedom of choice

she'd do the same to the boys if it weren't for the fact that no one wants them back

keep sweet eldorado

Anonymous said...

keep sweet eldorado,stg

Please give your definition of freedom of choice and human rights.

What should the young girls be taught in your humble opinion?

Just Curious

ATAR_i said...

Interesting. If an old geiser takes a girl (who doesn't want to go with him) and rapes her, he's called her husband.

If Flora picks up a child, who calls her for help - she's called a b****. I'm glad I'm not related to the great mind behind that argument.

And yeah - There's no pressure in the Warren group to stay with them (just the threat of stealing your wife, your business, your job, your virginity, your money and whatever the hell else they think they could take).

Yeah - another great argument from a really well educated individual (by the way - it's spelled liar - not lier).

roadrunner said...

YIkes, keep sweet eldorado,

I agree with just curious 4:57. What should young girls be taught? Hmmmm, let's see. They can be President or a little sheep following the pack? Or, you can marry anyone you choose(or not)or I am going to tell you who it is? Or, this is going to be big.....not everyone thinks like we do and that's ok. And many, many more I really would love to hear your explaination!

Anonymous said...

What's going on in Nevada? Something near the Harker Ranch... something with concrete. Anybody know?

Is Warren building another secret hole?

GBNF said...

I think that Flora means well. But I think she got sick of people ignoring her cries for help, and now she exaggerates everything to get people to take notice. Too bad, the truth is bad enough. I think that if Flora would just stick to the truth, she would not defeat herself and could probably do some real good. KFF!

What do you think keep sweet, and does stg stand for "save the girls"?

Anonymous said...

Isn't Harker Ranch in Utah?

Anonymous said...

Some people really need to catch up. Bob Curran hasn't had anything to do with the Help the Child Brides Web site or any front line work for over a year. He is definitly not Flora's "stuge" as you put it. He added to the nasty stories about her for a while. Any before people jump to assumptions about the Fawn's and why they were on the Dr. Phil show then they should catch up the continueing terrorism Warren is putting them through - by using their families. Anyone who would support or contribute to that has no sense of justice at all.
What would you do if your baby sister or her friend was being called by thier families with messages from Warren saying that some of them were sick and dying because the girls wont go back? Girls who have been terrorized with constant drills to prepare for the "lifing up" and watched families destroyed for the last ten years at least. And if you are just 18 that is most of your life.
If people are still so threatened by Flora that they have to drag her name up when she hasn't done anything controversial for months needs to find something real to worry about.
If you truly think Warren's "adjustments" and orders for people to be skined alive by having thier families taken away is a godly thing to do and Flora is the only person you can think of who has done anything controversial then I think you need to go volunteer at homeless shelters or something.
Flora has never lied to anyone about her past - in or out of the group and what she had to do to survive.
If I though Warren Jeffs was so good and I needed to be with him I would go camp in a tent outside of his compound and sit in a pile of ashes wearing sackcloth -- and not leave until you made sure his security and spies noticed you -- he is such a coward he'd never see you himself because he is too busy lieing flat on his back hiding in the back of one of his SUV's. I bet they'd give him a picture of you though!
His twisted holiness would like that and then you might get to experience first hand how "peaceful and christlike" he is and then make up whole new set of songs about him.
So get off Flora and try to find some person on the street you can actually help.
May the Force be with you!!

Anonymous said...


I was being sarcastic

keep sweet eldorado

ATAR_i said...

Ok - I found somone more vehement than I about NOT pointing fingers at the One person who was willing to stand up against child rape.

Thanks Anon 3:21 - point the finger where the finger is due (Warren et al).

People don't need rescuing if there isn't something to rescue them from.

I've no doubt she's a burr in someones side. Perhpas when she went on Dr. Phil and the two Fawns talked. Honestly I found that conversation a bit tame based on what I've learned - if they wanted to expose things - they didn't go too far.

1. children being immersed to keep quiet during church (and well behaved). I doubt everyone did that - but I'm certain it's origin is truthful - and it was done to some children.

2. not showing emotion - being seen as flawed if you reacted to the unreasonable demands placed on you.

3. being taught that man never walked on the moon - ok - I'm just curious - how many of you STILL believe that. All of you on the internet, perhaps it's not a good sampling - but I'm curious the teaching on that one - someone wanna fill me in?

4. Does Fawms mother have cancer?

Fried Female said...

OK Atar-i, I have agreed with you on most items, but I have to speak up now. I KNOW that the immersion issue is a damnable lie. The woman who started it may have done it to her children, but she was mentally unbalanced in the first place and did go to an institution. I know of not ONE other case where someone would do that to their children. That is just plain bull sh**.

Now, as far as not walking on the moon, I always thought that was just an urban legend circulating in our paranoid society. I never heard it preached from the pulpit, but I wasn't in attendance to all of the meetings, either. All of Uncle Roy's sermons are in print. Maybe someone could find out where he taught that and let me know. And before anyone gets rabid and starts spouting off that the Jeffs' started that, I would remind you that we were saying that 30 years ago that I know of.
An interesting side note; our "weird" society isn't the only one that circulates that legend. On Feb 15, 2001, Fox Television aired a special called "Conspiracy Theory: Did We Land on the Moon?"
Any cursory search of the internet will reveal plenty of pictures and arguments on this issue. I'm sure it doesn't have any more to do with religion in general than does the argument about black helicopters and chem trails.
Now, back to the subject. STG, I recognized that your post was tongue in cheek and I thought it was hilarious! Keep it up.

ATAR_i said...

Fried -

I was simply recounting what they said on the program - and why it would have irritated folk. But - it's not a damnable lie if it happened - even once.

That's why I said - I'm certain everyone didn't do it (meaning there was probably at least one child - or several if she had several children that experienced this), but it didn't sound like something that most people did. And, it sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders Fried.

And this is not intended to be judgmental - I have four kids, and feel on the edge of sanity on some busy days, I honestly think if you have 40-50 kids, with all the other stuff (jealousy, stepchildren, pressure to be perfect) - I think in those situations that abuse, or lack of care, or short tempers, or losing it, or whatever you want to call it is going to be more prevalent - because of the stress level - NOT because of the religious association. ANYONE in that situation would break, crack, lose it - and I believe that while immersing might not be the popular tool of choice - there are others - but who would admit to doing it (being abusive) - who?

There is MORE TRUTH than lies in the underlying words of the Fawns - parents abuse their children to keep them in control. I doubt women you know would admit to it - sort of a secret sin.

Thanks for talking about the moon landing, I'm not certain why that sort of thing takes root in different groups - but your right - it's not just an FLDS legend.

Anonymous said...

Harker's ranch is a hop skip and a jump away from Panaca, NV. Which in turn in a hop skip and jump from Caliente, where Warren for year performed marriages at the Hot Springs Motel, when owned my Merril Jessop. If you look at your map and put your ear to the ground you would know that there is a lot of open real estate between Panaca and Caliente.

I just heard a little story about concrete workers going to a project to the west of Harkers ranch. Wondered if there was any truth to it or if there was someone with more information on it.

Nevada is a speculation, I thought that it would be more to Warrens taste than being in Utah jurisdiction.

Anonymous said...

Does the Godfather ring a bell for anyone? Has anyone including law enforcement ever heard of the Rico Act??

Anonymous said...

Back to the "People and Places" question: Has anyone heard what has become of Michelle Barlow Jeffs? She was married to Rulon Jeffs and now ? I heard she has been seen around St. George and wonder if anyone has any info.

AngelofMorning said...

Just a bit more information. Fried Female and other "anonymous" bloggers who are haven't actually read enough of "Unlce Roy's Sermons" or listened carefully enough in church -- or who just can't remember (maybe because of the Prozac?) to know what was said or what happened then here.
1. There are at least 10 places in the "prophet" Roy Johnson's sermon books where he either said man had never made it to the moon himself or agreed with a previous speaker about it - just as he agreed with the "Line of Authority" we were all taught and memorized in schools at the time. There certianly are many "conspiracy theories" out there - but if we believe we have a "prophet" who talks to god personally then we have to believe god knows whether or not man has really made it to the moon or not.
2. The "saints" I mean the fundamentalist polygamous saints in Salt Lake City certianly did use some very extreme and abusive measures to get their children to comply. It isn't likely that every or even more than a couple of families dumped their kids in cold water to make then stop screaming and sit like little zombies in church but yes it did so happen. If there are "mothers" who are so certian this NEVER happened then I hope you are a determined to make sure Warren Jeffs isn't doing this very thing to children he has total control over -- I know that it was around the same era that he became active in the Alta Academy that several families in Salt Lake City took, Stock Prod Electrical Shock implements after their children. "Uncle Roy" finally had to step in and stop them because it was causeing such terrible physical and emotional damage. I don't know for sure if this ended up happening in the actual school there but it fits.
Also you should maybe be truthful about the rumor that one of the Fawns got pregnant. That rumor was floating around even before last summer. They have definitely NOT had a baby - either of them and if they had gotten pregnant they would have a baby because they would never have an abortion. How many more ways do twisted mind want to hurt two innocent girls -- never mind the reality that if they had stayed with Warren Jeffs BOTH OF THEM WOULD have babies by now and would likely have dissapeared into the endless abyss in Texas. There they would have to know that "resistance is futile" where they are they at least have a chance at some choices - a life and the truth about what is really happening on the outside.
So -- If you are half as good as you think you are - or are supposed to be considering you are part of "Gods chosen people" with access to the fullness of the gospel -- then you would be so full of the unconditional love of Christ that you could never be cruel to the Fawn's -- or Flora. Cause a true Saint would never be like that - it just isn't the "sweet" thing to do.
may the force be with you.

Fried Female said...

Atar-i, while it may be true that what they say is true if even one child has been abused, for you to use one mental woman to judge the FLDS society as a whole would be the same logic that they use on their people to keep them in line: Everyone in the "world" (outside of FLDS) are dishonest, immoral, kidnappers and rapists. While I agree that there are such people, I am sure that you would object to being placed in that category.

It is sad to me that people have to use inflammatory comments to put pressure on the most innocent segment of that society, the mothers. Some of them do have more children than they can cope with all at once, but most of them are good, hardworking, levelheaded people trying their very hardest to raise their children to be the best that they have been taught. This does not, nor has ever, included the kind of abuse which has been highlighted and seized upon as "normal" for that society. My parents punished me, even spanked me, but never ever used the control methods you mention.

I didn't see the program on which the Fawns appeared, and I am not calling them liars. What I am saying is that what they claim MAY be their experience, but it cannot be used to judge the rest of the mothers there.

I am speaking from vast experience. I had a mother there. I was a mother there. I have several sisters, sisters in law, and friends who are mothers there. I am no longer there, and I am not defending their religion, their teachings, or their psychotic leader. But I am defending their women and mothers. I will speak for 99% of them individually and defend them with all my ability. Because I am talking about human beings, not a group. And I know that the mothers are the ones who are keeping the humanity, the love, and the compassion alive in those children. Most of the fathers still left there are stressed out trying to keep their families together and food on the table, so they don't have a lot of time for their children. But if even ONE human being comes out of that group as a good, upright, contributing member to society, I can tell you right now that it was because their MOTHER was a loving and kind person who never tried to drown them. Now if ONE person has that kind of experience, does that make it true for the whole society? No? Then let's not judge the whole society if even ONE person has a negative experience with their mothers.

Sorry for carrying on so long. I get a little rabid on this subject because I already believe that the women shoulder far too much there and that we shouldn't be adding to their strain by calling them evil.

ATAR_i said...

Dear Fried:

Have no fear - if you *read* my post - I state that I didn't believe it to be an active use of control for children - but it also is not a 'blasphemous lie'.

And, if you further read - I state that my belief that abuse was more prevalent - it has nothing to do with religion - it has to do with stress.

Stress placed on Women, Men and Children to be perfect. Stress to behave in a way that will not cause the eye of the prophet to rest on you in an unhappy manner. Stress to be a fruitful, wife who doesn't ask of her husband.

Believe me - I'm all on the womens side here. I think they got raked over the coals, screwed, dumped out with the rainwater and hung out to dry. I think they were asked to do something no woman could do. And it's not uncommon for women in this situation to feel on the edge of reason - and react.

So, I do not intend to place judgment on this group - but part of being a healthy adult is to own up to what you've done. To say 'no child was abused' it's just simply not true.

Every mother who allowed her young girl to be taken and raped.

Every mother who allowed her young son to be banished and left to fend for himself.

The cattle prods (hey I didn't bring it up) the dunking in cold water (again I didn't bring it up), those were done by desperate parents - and while I doubt most families employed those measures - the stress to be perfect must have been tremendously strong for them to do so. This is NOT an FLDS thing (some parents up in Washington just recently duct tape their children and use plastic zip ties - and they weren't FLDS).

Anyhow - I'm not trying to condemn - but I won't allow you to get off by saying that EVERY MOTHER was model parent (except the one crazy lady) and no abuse happened - it's just denial and won't help anyone.

For example: Hey - you used a cattle prod (using worst case scenario) realize it was wrong, and see the pressure you were under, go to counseling - learn a different way - apologize to the kids, make reparations and you've done what you can do and go on. You can't say - they're lying - that helps no one (not the child, not the parent)

So while you have the unique perspective of being in this group and believing all to be model parents. I have the unique perspective of being on the outside looking in.

Anonymous said...

To Fried Female 5/21/2005 9:46 AM

Holding kids under water to make them stop crying was not only done once I am not currently flds but grew up there and witnessed this practice in my home and others many times


Fried Female said...

And if you will read my post, you will not that nowhere did I say "no child was abused." What I was responding to was your question:
1. children being immersed to keep quiet during church (and well behaved). I doubt everyone did that - but I'm certain it's origin is truthful - and it was done to some children.
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but the implication is that "maybe not EVERYONE did it, but MOST did." Based on that inferrence, I responded as I did. I know of ONE woman who did that and she was mentally unbalanced. Everyone else I personally know has not done that. So MY contention is that VERY FEW people did that.
I'm not trying to get off saying that "EVERY MOTHER is a model parent" and neither will I let you get off saying "ALL PARENTS are bad".
I was addressing the ONE issue of the child-dunking and now you're bringing up whether their religious beliefs (when their children get married, whether to associate with them, etc) makes them physical abusers. Let's keep the issues seperate. I don't agree with their religion and I don't agree with anyone else who tries to categorize them all as child abusers. End of story.

ATAR_i said...


1. I didn't mean to infer that MANY mothers did it (and I don't believe my post even with liberal interpretation suggests such). But you stated it was a 'blasphemous lie' which means - it's not true at all.

I have always stated that while I doubted it was common - it's origins were in truth (meaning it happened - see quiet man and others posts above). It wasn't just the crazy lady, and it wasn't a blasphemous lie either

2. I never stated that All Parents are bad - not even close.

3. My original comments were very nonplussed. Merely stating what the Fawns had spoken of on Dr. Phil (who made it sound like everyone was immersed). I was merely pointing out that I didn't believe it was common, but that must have happened to some children.

Your reaction to that post was strong, you seem to feel this is about your (ex)religion (I'm not sure why), it's very separate to me. Your (ex)religion is your relationship to God, not how you treat your children.

You mention that 99% of the parents would never abuse their children (I must have a more liberal interpretation of abuse - as I include abandonment and rape).

You want to tell me that all the mothers you know are wonderful and would never harm their children, but I see lots of hurting children, and no parents willing to aknowledge the hurt they caused.

I just don't think I can feel sorry for the women any more (and I might just change my sentiments) if they are unwilling to even aknowlege the hurt they've caused their own children (which just pores salt on an already open festering wound).

I am quickly becoming incredibly unimpressed.

Fried Female said...

Oh, seriously. These are two seperate issues, as I've said ad naseum. I DO NOT agree that parents should hurt their children. I DO NOT agree that they should abandon them. That is one of the major reasons I left them. I was not about to let anyone tell me whether I should associate with family members who have made a different choice. And I don't believe that girls should marry underage, etc etc etc.
However, I did not want the myth to be perpetuated that all, most, or even many mothers have done physical injury to their children.

As far as their being guilty by not acknowledging their sins, that is a conversation entirely aside. If they think that they are doing what is right for their children by following the teachings of their leaders (however demented they may be) I think you will be hard pressed to find any of the faithful or true believers who feel the need to apologize for doing what they think is right. Much the same as asking Jewish mothers to apologize for the pain they inflict on their sons by circumcising them. However much I don't agree with it, that will not change the fact that they believe it will make their sons pure. So they will not apologize for it no matter how guilty I try to make them feel for it.

And if they are NOT true believers, like me and many of my family, they would have
A. Not inflicted the abandonment, "rape" etc on their children in the first place, OR
B. Have already acknowledged the mistake of teaching their children that way and already agonized over the life choices forced upon them by being raised in that society.

Fortunately for me, I fall into category A and don't need to apologize for anything. My mother, however, falls into category B and since nothing can be done at this point, philosophically guides us into just picking up the pieces and loves us and teaches us to learn to cope and make lemonade when life throws us lemons.

So it doesn't really matter whether you feel sorry for the women or not. Half of them think they are doing exactly right by teaching their children these things (and couldn't care less what you think) and the other half already know that they've got housecleaning to do and are working on it.

I'm not trying to raise a lot of inflammatory rhetoric and cause a major bashing party. I'm just trying to say that it doesn't help the ones who are trying to do right by their children for them to be accused of the physical abuse.

Anonymous said...

I think you need to take a rest my sister Fried Female and think about what you just said. You get all "righteously indignant" about Flora and her attempts to help "refugees" from the FLDS and try to tell us that poor unfortunate womyn on the inside of the group still need to be better understood.
I understand them - I used to be one of them. But if you REALLY don't want your children married to young and if you REALLY don't want them denied a proper education and if you REALLY want your sons protected and treated like human beings instead of robots who learn first of all that, "they exist for the good of the collective - and resistance is futile - when they cease to contribute according to the ever changing rules of the "collective" or the "prophet" then they are expendable -- then you get out - fight for each of them and get them safe! On what twisted planet is is alright for us to tell women and mothers that it is alright to abdicate their responsiblity as mothers when some "god" figure tells them to. I have a large family still on the inside - on both sides of the Warren Jeffs Winston Blackmore group -- I know you can't help people if they percieve you to be their enemy because you have "criticized" them.
But Oh Dear! I am just glad I don't know for sure which ones of my extended family are locked behind the gates of the Eldorado Compound or any other Compound Warren Jeffs is dreaming up. I would be much more fried than I am and there would be a lot more fur flying than Flora has generated if I had access to this information -and believe me I am looking.
There needs to be some "inflammatory rhetoric" to get the 50 percent you are referring to who are likely mothers to many of these missing "chosen ones" of Warren Jeffs to shake them selves out of the infernal trance they same to be in. To have hundreds of mothers standing around repeating this mantra over and over is more horrifying than I can imagine - "God is blessing me/her/him/us. I am in the prophets good graces. Uncle Warren is blessing me/her/him/us. I don't have to question because Uncle Warren is at the helm. If I struggle with keeping the good spirit and find it difficult to keep sweet then I read Uncle Warren's scriptures until I can even if it takes me up to 4 hours a day." You can't even have a productive conversation about the weather with someone like that -- let alone ask her if her children are safe - where they even are - let alone if she had to let some of them get "evicted" or "adjusted". The ONLY thing you can do when you are in that state - without haveing to put any painful thought or ask pesky questions about where your children REALLY ARE is clean your house.
I am just grateful that there is a wide network of concerned but quiet child advocates who are already helping many of the "lost boys and girls" the two Fawns' symbolize.
You write like a well educated woman so I was surprised to see you try to compare the Jewish mother seeing that her son is circumcised to this topic at all. Their is no comparison at all. This is closer to Women holding down 8 or 9 year old daughter on the sand in Africa so some untrained filthy woman can circumcise her. There is only an infintismal amount of baby boys who suffer any side effects from circumsion although I would prefer it not happen to my own sons and grandsons - but the long lasting, horrifying affects of this never-ending nightmare go on generation after generation.
I know how shut-down a mother would have to be to give up her children the way that is expected in CC, Hildale and any other place it is happening. I know how shut-down a woman would have to be to be shuffled around from man to man on the say so of cowardly evil prophet.
So how are you going to get any of them - even the 50 percent you say know they have house-keeping to do to actually get some help. They will just flip in to the Mantra and chant it a few thousand times and then they will say, "My son? What son? My daughter? What daughter? MY husband? Oh yes he is right here only a little different from last week." Or, "The prophet gave my husband and 4 of my sister wives the call to be part of the "hearts core of the hearts core - god's chosen few in Eldorado (YFZ) I just have to try a little harder and I may get to go to instead being stuck her with my remaining 2 or 5 or 10 or 20 other sister-wives. We don't get along as well as we should - it was our own fault we are left behind - we can repent."
And the children are left to suffer again - And you can't tell me or anyone else that a woman in that state would even try to stop a prophet from taking her 15, 16, or 17 year old daughter as his 60th wife. Or for that matter dear fried woman - would she think twice about dumping her 3 year olds face in cold water so she could be found worthy to attend meetings or what ever they do these days -- She wouldn't think twice because she isn't thinking at all. And yes you would have to be mentally ill in some way - but can you honestly tell me that you don't suffer from levels of stress, trauma, worry and feelings of terror about what is happening to some of your family?? If you can you're a much stronger woman than I am.
May the force be with you.

ATAR_i said...

First of all, I thought I was being *really nice* in my initial post - mentioning the Faws statement - they made it sound like Immersion was common. I qualified that by stating I didn't believe it was common, but you keep on insisting I accuse everyone (I Didnt), or that I believe it's common (I Don't).

Along the way to those conclusions - you also stated it was a blasphemous lie, and that only a crazy lady did it. Several people have said you were't really in touch with the community if you didn't realize it was more popular than that, and perhaps there was more of what you would qualify as abuse happening. I have nothing to say on the matter.

Secondly, I'm not attempting to get anyone to apologize - BUT I am reacting to your belief that 99% of them are not abusive.

Circumcision is thousands of years old, and protects the male penis from infections and strictures, as well as the female from cervical cancer. It was also an outward sign of their culture/religion. It is minimally painful (if done when your a small baby) for only a few seconds. All the things above I speak of from vast experience - and I do mean VAST.

Abandonment and rape are not like circumcision, and they aren't part of a religious belief either. They are what they are.

Don't be an apologist for the women of this group. When they wake up, and shake off their chains, we can welcome them back with open arms - without the pointing of fingers. They WILL realize on their own what they have done, and their own past actions will be pain enough for them to suffer - but don't be an apologist.

Anonymous said...

Help Faithful Woman.....
Do women really dunk their small children heads under cold water to stop them from crying. Have heard this several times. Needs to be addressed.

Personaly heard Flora Jessop make this statement, is it false?

Please set record straight as best you know it.

Also, some churches have crying rooms where young mothers and children can hear the meetings through a glass or television. No need to have crying infants and children disturb the meetings.

Fried Female said...

to Angelofmorning:
I agree with you. You cannot have an intelligent conversation with the women who are still in that group. They do repeat these mantras and cannot be reached by any amount of finger pointing or guilt-laying. They don't even have an inkling that these conversations are going on, and having been deprived of all media, they don't watch Dr. Phil or any other show. So my point was that the rhetoric and accusations are NOT reaching them and they don't care what anybody thinks or says.
However, the accusations ARE felt and heard by myself and my sisters who have left and we feel whipped when someone says that the mothers there do these things. Because we never did and we are the only ones who hear it. Do you know what I'm saying? It's like punishing the ones who showed up for the ones who didn't. I just don't think it's accomplishing anything to accuse the mothers. Let's keep the focus where some good might be done: from the top down.
I guess I am an apologist for the mothers whom I do know (not speaking for the ones I don't) and who I am certain have never done the things some have been accused of. Because I have a lot of good friends still there for whom I have a lot of hope and because I know they will never speak for themselves. Just know this. There may have been some physical abuse of the children there. I personally know of one woman who did it. But I personally know about 1900 other women who did not do it. And they are still my friends and I hope the best for them. When they do wake up and figure out what's going on, I will be able to look them in the eye and tell them that I stood up for them and defended them in their innocence.

ATAR_i said...


I never meant to intimate that you immersed your children. You left - and protected your children - you are the antithesis of the mother the Fawns mention.

I also had the sense that I knew the people that surrounded me, having immersed (no pun intended) myself 24/7 in my church life.

However, I didn't realize my friend was raped by her fiance before her wedding, I didn't know my youth leader was gay (his wife and children are so lovely - and so was he). I also didn't realize about 10 other people I knew well were hiding that same struggle. I didn't realize that my best friend was having sex before marriage, I didn't know that my neighbor, and friend from church was being molested by her adopted father until she told us, ever her sister wouldn't believe her til they switched places one night. I didn't realize that my friends father, a humorous and respected man in our church, beat his wife, until the night my young friend tried to poison the whole family and their guests at a dinner party.

I knew these people, spent countless hours each week with each one and I did not see it. They weren't bad people, they were lovely people. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there.

The struggles, the pain, it's not something that people show you. I would never have believed these things of any of my lovely friends. I don't hate them because of their struggles, but I'll never be naive enough to believe a statement that "1900 people you know would never be abusive".

I know you don't want to have your friends lumped together with abusive women (an adjective which might/might not be true), but you can't make wide sweeping statements like that.

I think we've just about exhausted this conversation. I would just like to say that I could never point a finger at a woman (mother) and say she was abusive just because she lived in a certain city and attended a certain church.

I can state, what I know to supported by documentation or the personal testimony of children - 300 boys have been abandoned from that city and church - (they had mothers - they came from somewhere). Girls have been legally raped, children have been treated poorly (abused).

If a child says they have been abused - I believe them, bottom line. It's not about protecting mothers from a label (that they aren't even aware of), it's about recognizing the pain of these children. It's not about YOU, or the mothers - it's about THE CHILDREN.

Fried Female said...

OK Atar-i, point taken. I probably don't know what these people do in their own bathrooms. Like you said about your acquaintances. So OK already. Point conceded. Check. You win.

So what does Atar-i mean anyway? And how do you get fonts on this blog to be italicized or bold? I can't change mine.

ATAR_i said...

I use simple html. As I am writing I can see the HTML right above the input box and below 'leave yoru comment'

The B stands for bold, the i stands for italic and the a stands for a link like 'a href="' of course you have to use the brackets.

Anonymous said...

One thing to bear in mind is that many of us think in terms of life before Warren and life after. There is no question that there was a major shift in direction. However, abuses happen everywhere and to different degrees over time. I think that the trend of discipline has changed in the U.S. culture. We simply do not tolerate the same things that were once commonplace.

onthestreet said...

Warren IS life. I'm happy that you will all come to know that. He is God with us, and that is life. Someday, after you've exhausted yourselves, you will know, you will know. As for major shifts, yes tornadoes shift here and there, and everywhere, but still the same tornado. Still the same Gospel of Jesus Christ. And yes, tornadoes certainly abuse, yet they come from God. So which is worse, this or Texas monogabuse? After sooo many no's, you will know, you will know.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Dear Street,
Oh, please Warren is just a man.
God is with anyone who truly has accepted him. All anyone needs is the truth and the Holy Spirit to guide them.

Yes, I understand the Man-Warren hates sin and he now feels he has to purge his wicked from his mist so his people can be "pure in heart and be lifted up." Very commendable to a point. I understand he is tired of sin, so am I, but you, nor Warren or even I can forgive sin from a dirty heart with out the help of the Holy Spirit. The real Holy Spirit.

Street, Warren reminds me of a little boy who wants eveyone to play by his rules or ELSE!
Is forgiveness in his vocabulary?

GRACE (CANNOT EARN IT OR BUY IT) and FAITH (small as a mustard seed, even provided by God) in Jesus = Salvation and Forgiveness. God has a blind eye to sin when covered up by Jesus' blood. The real blood atonement.

Ask the thief on the cross who Jesus said would be in Paradise with him. Was he baptised? No; Did he get to any works on that cross? No. He recognized the perfect lamb being slaughter for his sins and he JUST ACCEPTED IT FOR TRUTH and lives with Christ. Simple even a child can know.

Since Adam and Eve disobeyed the only rule God gave them and was thrown from the garden of Eden to the time of Jesus died on the Cross, God demanded a blood sacrifice for that sin of disobediance and in the end provided himself (a perfect lamb God in man form-Jesus) as the sacrifice. How many gods or Man-Warren do you know would live and died to redeem one sinner? Your Man-Warren?

Keep ranting Street about sin and destruction.People do not like to hear these things. That is why many preachers do not preach hell and destruction anymore. It is good to be reminded of these things, because it will come.

But, neither your FLDS church or Man-Warren offers any hope outside or inside of your Warrenite world to us poor old bloggers or even to fallen Warrenites and apostates.

I guess we will see when the trumpet sounds and Jesus desends from the East in the clouds, who will be lifted up. Mugwumps church of clay or Warren's temple.

My money and soul is on Mugwumps church. The true bride of Christ (a collection of of true believers who accepted once in their lifetime the Gift of Grace to understand and accept the salvation through the BLOOD of Christ, a truly free gift to mankind).

Anonymous said...

Onthestreet is sure a poor Warrenite. He has positively commanded his faithful to stay off of the internet. Bad! bad! bad! You better go listen to two tapes, get a couple new pictures and sing a few hymns.

onthestreet said...

Ahhh, "he has commanded his faithful. . ." You see, I am (on the street).

Anonymous said...

I'm glad my mom never heard it was OK to dunk your screaming kids underwater. She probably would have done it.....not because she was overstressed, but because we most likely deserved it.

Anonymous said...

Since the Jeff's took control of the UEP Trust and and created their FLDS Church (early 90's), it's very obvious that things have deteriorated in the Creek.

Obviously there is no doctrinal mandate to do the malevolent things Warren has done to so many people. How can anyone possibly view his acts of destruction as anything other than psychotic behavior? His bio should read, "It takes a prophet to destroy a village."

I think it would be poetic justice if Warren was "stripped" bare and had to do pennance in a federal prison for his crimes against society--And I'm not talking about the right of consenting adults to choose their relationships. I'm talking about violations of the RICO statutes.

Warren needs to be incarcerated where he can associate with his kind. Perhaps the justice of God will give him a chance to pay for his crimes.

In any event, there certainly is no question that the Jeff's administration of fundamentalist leadership has failed miserably and exhibits obvious proof that the Lord's sanction is not with them . . .

Paladin for Truth said...

Hear that, Anon. 11:11

Faithful Woman said...

Anon 2/22/05 8:57 am
face dunking

Well, atari and fried female did a prity good job of hashing out this argument. It did happen more than once by frustrated parents but not as a religious comandment.

I heard of this kind of thing long before warren ever came into power, but never had personal knowledge of it. It was a father who I heard of doing such a horrendous thing. I was very appauled at hearing about it. That same man has since, still pre warren erra, told his grown sons to not make the mistakes he had made.

Anonymous said...

Refering to OTS's "Warren is life. Warren is God to us." You certainly do not know God!!!!!!God is the same yesterday, today and forever! Warren's "new teachings" certainly do not fit into that category. God loves and cares for everyone and wants the best for all of us. Warren wants to decide who besides himself should have any kind of quality to their life. Don't even use those two names in the same sentence. They just don't fit!!!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous of 11.11 am Amen!!
I think Warren is a meglomaniac.
who just happened to be in the right place,at the right time,Warrens behavior has nothing to do with Flds belief.He just happens to be Flds and phsychotic.I also have heard of kids being dunked
under the tap,but not as Flds
custom only.I personaly saw this happen.Several places,several times,even had a Gentile neighbor who held her daughter under the tap.too stop it's screaming I think this is bad parenting.Flds or not.

Anonymous said...

"Warrens behavior has nothing to do with Flds belief"

tell that to his 10 thousand some odd followers

" being dunked under the tap...I think this is bad parenting.Flds or not"

raising your daughter to marry some old guy she barely knows, just so daddy can get a fresh one of his own.

now, I'd call that bad parenting

keep sweet eldorado

Anonymous said...

stg,you dont get the point,Warren has about 150-200 followers,9,800
victims,I've known most of CC/Hildale folks for years,the situation is much worse since Warren,anyone disagree.????????

Anonymous said...

I am from Hildale. There was a time that I could defend the community, the culture and the religion with pride. Anymore, I'd just as soon not be associated. The bizarre thing about this (Warren) situation is that many of the victims aren't even aware of their victimhood, yet. It makes it hard to offer any help.

Paladin for Truth said...

I agree with 4:11. Warren has pulled the bait and switch trick. He supported Uncle Rulon until he had his stroke and then changed the program big time. Many people in Hildale/CC, don't have a clue what Warren is doing, or the fact the he is running things exactly opposite of the way the Presidents Barlow, Johnson and Jeffs did.

onthestreet said...

Obviously there is no doctrinal mandate to do the benevolent things Warren has done to so many people. How can anyone possibly view his acts as destruction. . . His bio should read, "It takes a prophet to clean up a village."

onthestreet said...

Anony-mouse said:
Refering to OTS's "Warren is life. Warren is God to us." (okay, you're right, he is). You certainly do not know God!!!!!!God is the same yesterday, today and forever! Warren's "new teachings" certainly do not fit into that category. God loves & cares for everyone..

STREET'S Reply: True, God is the same and reveals new truths daily (oops, did you say the same, old truths only, and never reveals more, being a selfish God)?

Okay, I concede, God loves and cares for everyone, allowing every evil in society in order to give us experience (oops, did you say "care", allowing evil?

You see, he has cast us all out, to this yonder place (earth) to allow the dirt and grime to scrub us clean, and to allow us to repent from afar. Dang, is this God or an FLDS Church?
Now, they look the same.

Anonymous said...

Thought for the day:
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves but wiser people so full of doubts"
Bertrand Russell

Anonymous said...

reply to 5/25/05 8:28 P.M. Yes, you are right, there is a terrible amount of ugliness in the world, but God is NOT the author of it. He simply gives everyone their own agency to make their own choices and many of those choices are damning ones. Yes, God does continue to teach us but His teachings follow the basic ones that He has already given us. He doesn't make mistakes, as we know them, or He would cease to be God. "The Ten Commandments" say; #1. "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me." Not even Warren. #5. "Honor thy Father and thy Mother." It doesn't say kick them out if you don't want them; Where's the honor in that? #6. "Thou shalt not kill." If you don't think it kills a person to have his family stolen from him, think again. #7. "Thou shalt not commit adultry." Giving those stolen wives to other men causes them to do just that. #8. Thou shalt not steal." What God has joined together let no man put asunder. See #6 above. Has the "Golden Rule" that God taught us also been changed in those "new teachings"? It certainly looks like it. Would those men who are destroying families want to be treated like that? Yes, there are ugly things happening, but don't blame God.

Anonymous said...

reply to 5/25/05 8:28 P.M. Yes, you are right, there is a terrible amount of ugliness in the world, but God is NOT the author of it. He simply gives everyone their own agency to make their own choices and many of those choices are damning ones. Yes, God does continue to teach us but His teachings follow the basic ones that He has already given us. He doesn't make mistakes, as we know them, or He would cease to be God. "The Ten Commandments" say; #1. "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me." Not even Warren. #5. "Honor thy Father and thy Mother." It doesn't say kick them out if you don't want them; Where's the honor in that? #6. "Thou shalt not kill." If you don't think it kills a person to have his family stolen from him, think again. #7. "Thou shalt not commit adultry." Giving those stolen wives to other men causes them to do just that. #8. Thou shalt not steal." What God has joined together let no man put asunder. See #6 above. Has the "Golden Rule" that God taught us also been changed in those "new teachings"? It certainly looks like it. Would those men who are destroying families want to be treated like that? Yes, there are ugly things happening, but don't blame God.

Paladin for Truth said...

It takes a profit to clean up a village, clean up all their money anyway. It takes a real Prophet to work with a village using Charity, Love, Patience and Long-Suffering until at last they can be saved. President Johnson spent more time during his administration gathering the people up from the '53 raid than Warren has even had in his self-proclaimed administration. In a short, short time, Warren has undone all that Presidents Barlow, Hammond, Zitting, Jeffs, Musser, Kelch, Timpson, Holm, Jessop worked so hard to build. These previous Presidents all have testimony that cannot be denied that they were called of God. You would have to undo John Taylor to undo these men, If we undo John Taylor, then what can Warren possibly have. Warren has the tale of a few of his father's wives that he was in the sack with. Yep, Warren has done the ole bait and switch trick for sure. President Johnson said, "If it does not square with the 3 in 1 (Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price) it is not correct". Lets square Warren's teachings and actions they way President Johnson taught us to, then tell Warren to just go away and live on what he has stolen in Texas. Tell him to leave those in Hildale/CC alone and leave their daughters alone as well. Any father in Hildale/CC has more authority and more favor with the Lord, than Warren does. Fathers, why don't you go help your daughters marry where they will be far happier than Warren's program of destruction, horror and sadness. Fathers, tell your daughters, to stay with the man that the previous Presidents spoken of, put them with. Fathers, work with your sons in long-suffering till the end. Fathers, mail all of Warren's doctrine back to him in Texas, pick up the Book of Mormon and become believers in Christ again.

As for OTS, take one full week and read only the Book of Mormon, see if you can find the Gospel again. Then, Street, as a start, go honor your father and your mother and give them a big hug and ask them to start reading the Book of Mormon again.

ATAR_i said...

Nice job Paladin.

I have always respected my father, he was a man who protected me, and that I admired. He always wanted the best for me - and I always counted on that.

To a young girl - that relationship is so special and cherished.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

flora maybe a liar I am not sure I have only read a few of things attributed to her but you calling her a liar dose not make the abuse and destruction going on in CC/hildale any less true and yelling about it doesn’t give you any more credibility either


Anonymous said...

Oh, Ruthie!!!! If calling Flora a liar and saying Dick and Willard are going to burn in hell are seriously making you feel better, more power to you. If, however, that is just feeding your bitterness, I would let it go.

ATAR_i said...

Ruthie -


if you learn only this - I will be thrilled.

onthestreet said...

Paladin Looking For Truth Said:
As for OTS, take one full week and read only the Book of Mormon, see if you can find the Gospel again. Then, Street, as a start, go honor your father and your mother and give them a big hug and ask them to start reading the Book of Mormon again. 5/26/2005 10:01 AM

STREET'S Reply: Very nicely put. That book says it all, does it not. I read it daily. However, my friend. You can't settle on just a week of reading to gain your salvation. Try a week of decades to do the job, 70-years. If you expect it in a week, you will be very disappointed. As for my parents, I hug them daily, and they're the ones who taught me. I don't need to teach them, little one. Now, go hug a tree, and see if you can find a Book of Mormon in the Tree of Life.

Anonymous said...

Lier, Liar

It all depends on whether you are the lior or the liee.

ATAR_i said...

No - it doesn't.

She lied
He lied
She is lying
He lis lying
She is a liar
He is a liar

NEVER under any circumstances is it spelled the way you spell it.

Anonymous said...

I appreciate your efforts to try to teach some spelling to these folks. If you think the spelling is bad you should hear them try to read. I was a former member of this group (FLDS) althogh I did not grow up in CC. I was educated mostly in Public School and then finished high school at home. I have always marveled at how little phonics they have been taught in the Colorado City School district. Isn't it a hoot nearly every time they try to defend thier educational status how they slaughter the English language and especially the spelling? But then the emphasis on education there is placed on Warrenism. If you know the latest "revelations" you are above the learning of this world and all else doesn't matter.

Anonymous said...

To Anon 11:00.....

It is marvelled, not marveled.

"Public School" should not be capitalized.

In "Colorado City School district", District should be capitalized.

It is their, not thier.

It is although, not althogh.

You're welcome.
Glad I could help.

Anonymous said...

I know we don't usually bash for spelling in here, but you were so righteous about it that I felt an urge.

I'll be good now.

Anonymous said...

ya we kin read writin and rite readin but we kant reed writin thats writ rotten.

Anonymous said...

Humor is alive and well in Short Creek. And congratulations, Crickers on getting a new bunch of trustees on the UEP.

ATAR_i said...

Anon 4:13 - that was beautifully put.

Anonymous said...

Some of us actually had to do school work in school in CC. Lots of bright students; but so was Germany. Lets be careful?
There's still a lot of lessons to learn.

onthestreet said...

Now you're talking. Some of you are starting to get it right.

Anonymous said...

What are some of Warrenism newest Revelations?

Anonymous said...

On The Street,
Your ongoing diatribes and twisted sayings are just devious and strange enough to make me think that you are a lot smarter than you want people to thing you are. Sometimes I really do buy that you believe you must "repent from afar" and your sins show up in your mirror but other times I think you are stringing everyone along. If you get a chance maybe you can let us know what you really think about Warren Jeffs and his slaughter of the "everyone who doesn't worship him near and far."
I dare ya!

Anonymous said...

you have cluttered your string with re-posts so much that it is bogged down and near impossible to read. Usually I skip that one but I got curious, but it is too much of a labor to figure. Maybe you could clear it up if you really want it ti be viewed.

The Rancid Monkey said...

I have a special place in my heart for West Texas, the San Angelo area in particular. I think it is a tragedy that these whackjobs have decided to come in and screw it up. (On a side note, land will be much cheaper down there... after all nobody wants to live next to a David Koresh). It's a matter of time before they do to Eldorado what they have done to Colorado City.


onthestreet said...

Anony-mouse: Oh, yes, now you must labor to read my posts. The labor will do ya good. But wait! By your own admission, you prefer to skip them by, and you do. So there's no complaint, is there. It is good to be bogged down, so now if you DO Do the thread on my street, it's like I've put speed bumps all over it. So now you all must slow down, for I am but a child. CAUTION: Children Playing.

Anonymous said...

previously referred to as a "soiled brat". very fitting.


mugwump said...

Good Show atar_i! Re. 5/27
7:10 AM

Anonymous said...

Street, please just give us a LITTLE hint? Are you DD or TB? C'mon! You are obviously quite proud of yourself and who you are so don't hide any more. I won't even tell anyone. Just say which initials are yours.

Anonymous said...

okay....ots is David Dutson...the gay pedofile???????????

Anonymous said...

Who is David Dutson? And are you asking if ots is him or are you saying that ots is him?

Anonymous said...

that is my guess... any one else have a guess

Men In Black said...

Anonymous said...
Since when does kidnapping children equate with "helping" the girls? When anyone else in America would be put in prison for taking underage children away from their parents, Flora is made a heroine? It seems to me that vigilantism has problems all of its own.

The problem is religion or not its illegal in all 50 states and not protected as religious freedom! If you consider we already have flow charts for whom married who, the only cases where activist intervened were those where young women contacted Flora or others asking for help. If I on this blog ID'd those taken underage without intervention, I think the public might just go into shock! Two wrongs don't make a right, but in the absense of enforcement of child protection laws, such as child abandonement when a parent leaves a child underage to have sex with a man of the parent or prophets chosing, that might engage the help of an activist. Then there is child endangerment, the MANN-Act, House Rule 3244 the Victim Trafficking Protection act of 2000 and so on, all being ignored.

If you study the law and the purpose to the Manifesto in 1890, being a polygamist you could not own land (the issue over the LDS Temple), couldn't hold office, vote or serve on a jury. If this is about comparing laws, Flora has broken less than those ignored by Jeffs or local regional governments.

Then we can go really deep into what William Black did for a living and how many honest religious people knew about it. The fire that one Sunday morning burned Mohave Minerals to the ground, only shortly after an EPA report and investigation into chemicals detected at that location. Lets go deep into every crime that can be associated with Hildale and Colorado City by geography, then match these crimes to Aiding and Abetting and Harbouring a runaway.

I dare say any one who complains of Flora, knows less than 10% of what she knows. Consider my bragging rights to all of the theology books, the cassettes, recorded phone calls and between 2,000 and 4,000 exchanged emails with this woman several here chose to hate. I have over 1,000 retained emails with the Utah AG staff, less than 500 with Arizona's AG, over 20,000 combined.

Before Flora I did what she was doing and recorded calls with the girl first, the liason second, the FBI third and the related AG fourth. What goes on when a young woman has the guts to say no, is more than what the news reports and atleast these kids had guts!


Anonymous said...

A people thread
Can some one who is still
On the inside Tell me the status
Current standing of the following

Dale Barlow
Jonathan Roundy
Eli Collie sp?
Dan C Jessop his brother Joe
Henry Jessop
Denis Jessop
Lee Bistline Sr.
Arnold Jessop
Doran Jessop
Art Blackmore

Just Curious I am a long ago apostate from the apostate church (flds)
Have not been on the inside for 20 some years


another quiet one said...

In addition to Quietman's list, could someone tell us the status of any of the Draper clan?

I too have been "out" for many years.

Faithful Woman said...

A few facts and opinions on the persons in question. Please note that opinions are just that, opinions.

Dale Barlow used to be one of Uncle Fred's minute men, not holding a job for himself, just doing U Fred's bidding. His family has had major health problems, some of them.

Jonathan Roundy is a cop, has had some health problems, major sergery.

Dan Jessop has two wives of other men, one was a widow when he married her, the other one is now. Has had tripple bypas heart sergery lately. Still on the city councel.

Joe Jessop on ciry councel also. Plants the community garden and mostly him and his family tend it.

Henry Jessop's children are being mostly raised by his parents. His wife has that all powerful mental trouble that aflicts so may of the flds trying to be too perfect.

Denis Jessop has served a shortened jail term for sexual abuse of his daughters. No longer has close association with the flds and has little to no will to live.

Lee Bistline Sr is up to his ears in the warrenite regime and is head of that infamous school board. Not that he knows what is going on, Alvin just tell him what he wants to know.

Arnold Jessop has a large collection of wives, some "used". Hasn't been part of the house shuffle, yet.

Doran Jessop has a second wife finally, has been moved from his home to another. Hasn't been kicked out yet.

Art Blackmore has been kicked out but not left his home nor does he intend to. Has one of three wives still with him.

Draper? Most of the mothers are Steed, Barlows. Now those husbands have been kicked out. A lot of the boys that did hang on to the warrenite regiem have been kicked out now. Two of the boys are with Winston's group.

Anonymous said...

I was the one who wondered if street was DD and I wasn't thinking David Dutson. Don't know where he is now. Street, no reply? Just initials?

Anonymous said...

Faithful Woman,

I think that you show a serious lack of taste for calling some of Arnold's women "used". What does that say for your own father? Wasnt he "used" when your step-mother married him? How is it that women can be "used" and men arent? Please! Show a little taste and class, "education", as it were.

And as for calling Heidi "all powerful mentally troubled"... well you come from the same blood, my dear, and that blood isnt known be all that "mentally stable", y'know. How would you feel if someone took a low shot at you like that? How about what everyone knows about Ross and his dishonesty business dealings? Do you really want everyone to know about that? And there's more... I could go on...

Most of the things you said about those people are just your own opinion, only the facts have been changed to protect the plot line..

Whaddya say lets just stick with the facts here and stop taking cheap shots at innocent people who are just trying to live their lives the best they know how.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

How about it, Faithful?? You always have a reply for what people say.... Not this time, dearie? Hit a little too close to home, did we?? How does it feel? Not so good? Do unto others, Faithful, as you'd have them do to you, dear. If you live in a glass house, stop throwing rocks! Our friend Jesus said, "Let him who is without sin among you cast the first stone"!! In stirring the S**t, you will certainly get some on you!! So if you dont like the smell, honey, dont sling it! =)

Just a little reminder there, dearie =)

Your friend,Jimmeny Cricket.

GBNF said...

Wow, a slap with honey and smileys...

Men In Black said...

Per this posting, can any here tell me if the young women have been placed, if they are in Texas or in Canada?
Rose Jessop?
Barbie Jessop?
Janneta Jessop?
Josephine Jessop?
Joanne Barlow?
Some or most might be 15 to 17 years old today or there abouts.

Also Jerald Williams has just won the Lotto, where would I send his check for $1,000,000. ???

Men In Black said...

With no threat now to those underage taken to Canana several years ago to be placed, I have some questions for Loraine or others?

How old was;
Esther Ruth Chatwin at the time?
Dorothy Chatwin,
Deanna Chatwin,
Charnell Chatwin,
JoLynn Chatwin,
Maraalee Chatwin,
Cecelia Chatwin?

Who did they marry and what were the ages of the spouses?

These are all of legal age of consent today, so offering information is just a show of good faith that there is nothing that needs to be hidden.


Anonymous said...


Why do you need to know about all these girls? What do they have to do with you? I'm sure that if any felt like they had to account to you as to where they went, they would.

And what do you mean by Jerold Williams winning the lotto?

Men In Black said...

Sorry, its to personal to relay here. If its not me asking here it will likely become someone else later. Anonymous is 5 ways better than it being the RCMP or FBI nosing around! I am a nobody, just processing information, if there is nothing to hide, then there is no reason to play hide and seek with info that may be accessed via public record searches any way.

To assume all is well here, is to ignore entire buildings disappearing. If you had a name besides Anonymous I might? confide in you, but personal data needs the accountability of people willing to use a last name and a communication more private than this.

If you don't know the answer, just say so. If its still a secret, that says something too.


Anonymous said...

I think Beswick was making a semi-humorous attempt to determine the whereabouts/residential address of Jerold Williams.

Does anyone out there know the name of Willams' business? Or the address of the property he owns in Wyoming?

Anonymous said...

Look at area North and West of Cody, maybe....

faithful man