Friday, September 11, 2009

some thoughts on 911

Today is the anniversary of the attack on America by misguided men under the delusion of a man made ideology. Our President wants to obscure the fact that this was an attack on the sovereignty of the freest and most prosperous nation in mankind’s history, and turn the occasion into a day of service to the state, a state he is trying to morph into another man made ideology that has never, in the history of mankind worked. To us who have seen first hand, this ideology, under the misnomer of “The Kingdom of God” turn a reasonably loving and happy people, into a society of mistrust, hatred and fear, this gives cause for some serious introspection into the nature of freedom and mans relationship to God. The ownership of our own person, under the mentorship of a just and loving God, and the right too the benefit of the fruits of our own labor, is the basis of what made our nation grate. On the other hand all the evils that have beset our Nation, and there are many, are a direct result of non adherence to these principles and the unwillingness to let others observe and practice them. Its my personal belief that the life blood of the Kingdom Of God, is personal freedom and the right to commune with our Creator. Freedom is life, tyranny is death

117 comments:

Anonymous said...

What Uncaduff? You arent buying hook line and sinker the "Pledge to be a servant to our President" video?

Well neither am I.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51kAw4OTlA0

3:29 and 3:57

Stamp

uncaduff said...

been there done that still hurts.
short creek was a minnie preview of whats coming under this administration.

Anonymous said...

uncaduff do the FLDS fly the US Flag?

Stamp said...

Some say the last time people pledged to be servants to their leader, it was Hitler who was being served.

And its been noted many times Warren looked up to that guy.

Warren took lessons, we should too.

Best of luck to you uncaduff, I hope this sorts out to the peoples benefit.

I dont see that happening under Warren and Lyles thumb tho.

uncaduff said...

when I was there, patriotism and the flag were given good lip service, but on the other hand, we were told to pray for the downfall of the united states government so that "the Kingdom Of God" could be established.
go figure.

Stamp said...

uncaduff

That is one trait the FLDS probably share with many offbeat religions.

And on that note, at least so far, the FLDS haven't forced upon members spiritual passing, just financial passings.

So things could be worse. They could also be a heck of a lot better!

Judith said...

Uncaduff,
Your memory, "we were told to pray for the downfall of the United States government so that "the Kingdom Of God" could be established" was interesting.

Do you recollect if anyone openly considered the possibility that the downfall of the US government might equally easily lead to total anarchy, chaos, and evil, and thus undermine the gloriously ordered world they were envisioning for their future? (I already know the answer, I just wanted to say it.)

uncaduff said...

that was inferred in the propaganda, and the answer was; "repent and be obedient so the Lord will protect us from the mob." I secretly wondered what we would eat if the "Gentile" economy failed, but I didn't dare say it yet. :}

uncaduff said...

stamp, most of there "spiritual" seemed to me to be a form of "passing" :#

Stamp said...

Yeah, but I was referring to the Jim Jones / Koresh type of "passing" that many feared.

I am thankful it hasnt gotten to that point, and I like to think it wont.

IRT to holding up Warren as God, well he passed that opportunity at the Golden ring by getting himself in prison forever.

But as long as he has an appeal going, I'm sure he will have followers. At some point they need to wake up and smell the coffee though, and perhaps his failed appeal Nov 4 will allow them to fulfill that.

Of course he will appeal it again though, all the way to the SCOTUS.

I fully expect the SCOTUS to put him over their knee and whip the tar out of him.

But in classic form, they will likely just "decline to review" his case, making it stick hard.

Anonymous said...

Uncaduff are you aware that the Mainline Mormon's goal also is for the downfall of the United States government so that "the Kingdom Of God" can be established.

uncaduff said...

oh yes,but what is your point?

Stamp said...

Anon

Is that just under the table theology or do you actually have a link?

I guess thats why I didnt find that a flamable offense for the flds, heck lots of religions think that way.

Yeah there will be an end times, thats a no brainer, but a lot of religions post the date every two years or so.



OH I guess the flds have done a little of that.

uncaduff said...

the world has been going to end; right now... for the last 70 years ,that I know of. seeins balievin.

Stamp said...

uncaduff

Well it hasnt yet, even though there are some tough bumps.

Warren didnt seem to concerned about it, he built that big old temple, and put in his bed for trying out new wives in it.

He even describes how he wants it builtm read it here:

http://texasflds.wordpress.com/2009/09/17/warren-build-me-a-bed/#comment-11165

Anonymous said...

it was never written or said that the world was going to end yet. We are in the midnight hours before the Millanail reign. We are in the battle of armagadan, and then the thousand years of peace. After that will be the battle of gog and maygog, and then the earth will become a heaven. It will be a heaven for all those who have served the Lord and the rest will be cast off into there own place. And the truth is written in the scriptures. and all men are in there bounds.

Anonymous said...

1st Thess 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first
4:17 then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Sorry no Enoch.

Stamp said...

Ooooooooooooo

KAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyy

Say, you remind me of what Rulon's Y2K plans were.

Do ya remember?

Anonymous said...

Yes I remember Rulon's Y2K plans.

The verse was for poster 11:52 Ruth?, not you or Uncaduff.

Matthew 24: 35 The skies and land will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

36 But concerning that day and that hour, no man knows, not the angels of the skies, but the Father alone.

Revelations 8:
1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
2 And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying,

"See, the home of God is among mortals.
He will dwell with them as their God;they will be his peoples,and God himself will be with them;
4 he will wipe every tear from their eyes.
Death will be no more; mourning and crying and pain will be no more for the first things have passed away."

5 And the one who was seated on the throne said, "See, I am making all things new." Also he said, "Write this, for these words are trustworthy and true."
6 Then he said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give water as a gift from the spring of the water of life.
7 Those who conquer will inherit these things, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, the murderers, the fornicators, the sorcerers, the idolaters, and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

Rulon was a false prophet.

The FLDS are taught Enoch and his city will desend and perfect people of Zion will join this city while God destroys the wicked on the earth. And they (The priesthood) will build the temple of God.

Warren thinks the limestone roads at the YFZ will turn to gold when it is lifted up.

It is all false teaching.

I just like to point things out with scripture, not my own words.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Uncaduff are you aware that the Mainline Mormon's goal also is for the downfall of the United States government so that "the Kingdom Of God" can be established.

9/16/2009 9:11 AM
Blogger uncaduff said...

oh yes,but what is your point?

9/16/2009 12:12 PM


My point is there are religions and doctrine that would confine our personal freedoms.

It is their way or the highway.

The mormon church is one.

Islam is another and much more dangerous because of it's violence undertones.

Catholic doctrine had more control, but I don't think you can call it a theocracy.

There are many churches that promote personal freedom.

Gunnster said...

What is the difference between the man made idealogy of our President and the men who attacked our country on 9/11,(your words) and Warren Jeffs and his crowd of pedophiles?
It seems to be as long as its working for you, you will refuse to see that the men of the FLDS are pretty much doing the same thing, just not with the same outcome.
Its like talking to a wall when I comment on your blogs which never get posted anyway....

Anonymous said...

If the world is going to end, should we all turn pedophile? According to the FLDS its the only way to get to heaven.

Judith said...

Uncaduff,
I realize this is straying from 9/11 to the "bed", but the subject has been brought up since the picture was recently republished over at FLDSTEXAS.

I do not understand this. I did not believe the accusation made by general publicity that there was a connubial bed in the temple, that is, until I saw the picture. That bed does not look remotely like an altar. The story was further muddied when someone from the inner circle claimed that the bed was for a caretaker. Was that a joke, that got repeated endlessly? If it wasn't a joke, why would someone say something like that?

I don't believe that bed was ever used for anything. But this group appears to have put a lot of money into plans that never materialized.

What are your own thoughts about that bed? Have you ever seen anything like that in an FLDS place of worship? What do you think its purpose was?

Many thanks.

Stamp said...

A hair was found on the bed.

The Texasflds link shows warrens dictations, which said the mattress needs a plastic cover for "what happens on it"

Well what happens on a bed on the top floor of a freshly made temple?

OK, this one prolly even has old time FLDS stumped, its so far out.

But hay, its Warren, right? We are all adults, we've seen his wedding pictures with little girls?

What other use could he have in mind, besides say, time travelling?

Anonymous said...

you have to remember also that America is the Land of the Free and the Brave. The Lord has promised this. We believe in free worship. We believe in FOR THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE...... And the gospel is the same. We believe in doing good to all men and allow all men the same privledge. Let them worship how, where and what they may. Who would betray there own country. Not I, says I. I shall hold the Flag up with all my streagnth all my days, for in this is protection and Freedom. If others want to betray it is there choice, but not mine........If I am a Nathan Hale, I shall be. But My country is my country and IT is an Emblem of Freedom for all.....never let your country fall boys.....for if you destroy ones freedoms, you have also taken yours.......life is very short. We only live it once...who among you would not give your all for peace?

uncaduff said...

Judith, I really don't have a clue about the bed. I'm afraid we all too often think the worst about things we don't have all the facts about. I'm told by LDS friends, that will talk about it, that in there temples they do have for those who work there, places to rest. until more evidence is available I can't in good conscience speculate about the bed. :}

Judith said...

Thank you for your response uncaduff. I agree with your perspective completely.

Anonymous said...

the thing is no one really does like abuse. Sometimes people just walk away and are caught. Some times people are charged with what they are not guilty with, because every one was so much a coward that they would not deal with the ones who were crimanils. But to say that the church upholds abuse is a gross lie. If our people had been faithful they would have won in the courts though. They was just so busy beating up the people who did report abuse, and letting the real ones walk around free, that they lost. Maybe they will get wise and win one day......and I just read an article about the cops being desertified. They are liars. They did not uphold truth. They will never win abusing and covering up abuse. Uncle Rulon said leave judgement to him, not go out and harrass people and lie to get them jailed, because they think they are so not in their church. No one ever gets into heaven on a lie. No one......They did not get desertified because they did protect Uncle Warren. They was desertified, because they are liars. And bullys and it is true that they would do anything in secret to hurt people they can who they think are not in their church. anything. so it is nice to have a balance. and if they had defended truth, my daughter would have been protected along with me, and Uncle Warren and this nation would not be in this conflict. They should have defended truth, instead of abuse......

Anonymous said...

for I witnessed these cops stalking a six year old.......IN the night. they was angry at her mother because she had left the church and stayed on their land. This child cried for a long time. And I took her home. When I arrived at her mother's house they did take the child and knock on the mothers door to harrass the mother too. I am not of the same believe as this parent, but stalking a six year old and harassing me is not my Idea of a light on a hill, and they would not have ever done this in daylight, with every one watching. These cops honest?????? right....do you think they even know how to tell the truth? they think they are gods chosen and he has chosen them to beat every one up and make them pay the debt to the pied piper........and this people are rude too.....to some degree....not all, but some. I would say there are maybe ten real Christians in this place........think agian. WE lost because we did not support the truth and religion and every one hid their abuse......try again boys....if you have it in you.....

Stamp said...

Really, the bed wont mean anything in this flds fiasco beyond providing another crazy anecdote. It wont convict anyone, there is DNA for that, and that means there were sexual assaults of minors in some beds.

The prosecution doesnt care what bed this all occurred in, they couldnt prove if it happened in the Temple or in a bunk bed.

(unless of course the tapes Warren had on him in the Escalade expose this which is quite possible)

It lays a heavy burden on the FLDS though, and I think its unearned, as your rank and file FLDS not only didnt know about this bed they have never set foot in the Temple Warren had built for himself.

I hope it does give the FLDS reflection on the false paths of Warren that have been forced on the FLDS culture, and now Lyle forcing his way as Warrens surrogate, so they may make the correct personal choices for their families.

To me, the knowledge that Warren kept tapes of his rapes of young girls is more disturbing than the bed itself.

And those are Warrens crimes not the FLDS crimes.

Judith said...

Stamp,
Agreed. How does such a slimy man get so far.

Ruth,
Is that you speaking in the previous 2 posts? I wish I could follow what you are saying. But I can't.

bbgae said...

I remember September 9th 2001 very well. I don't think I will ever forget it. I was woke up by my sister-in-law and she was terrified. We went upstarts about 8:00 in the morning and she turned on the TV. Every channel had the plan crashing into the building and we could see it toppling like it was made out of cards. We could hear the news reporter saying, "Oh my God...Oh my God! What is happening?"

I was 7 months pregnant with my son and I stood there in shock wondering what kind of a world I was bringing this baby into.
Now I look at him. He's beautiful. All grown up and in second grade.
I am SO glad I don't live in the FLDS any more. I don't have to be afraid of the end of the world.

That night the new stations asked people all over to light a candle and pray for an hour. We didn't do it because it was something the "evil gentiles" were all doing together and that meant we shouldn't participate. But my heart was heavy for all the families of the people who were lost and dying and dead and I prayed for them anyway when no one was looking.
Have you all seen the new twenty-dollar bill? There is a way you can fold it to see the two towers and smoke and on the other side the pentagon. A person from Hurricane Utah showed me this at work about 5 years ago. So the FLDS are not the only ones who think it is a conspiracy theory. But honestly I think it is just a load of cr**. There is no conspiracy theory IMHO. But people can see anything they want to see if they look hard enough and believe strong enough.

As for Obama I am behind him %100. It's about time we got better health plans. In England the parents of children get 15 pounds per child per week for health care. And 35 pounds per child per week when they have a non-threatening medical condition. Or so says my co-worker. In Canada my sister gets about $400.00 a month for her four girls. My friend says in Mexico when you get sick you go to the doctor and the only thing you pay is later when you go to get a prescription and then it's like $5.00. I think we should stop being sniveling hillbillies and show the world we can be civilized and take care of ourselves as well as they can.

I don't know about you people but I have heard enough about the end of the world when I was in the FLDS to last me the rest of my life. I am not going to listen to it any more.

Judith said...

Hello BBGAE,
Thank you for your thoughtful post. I agree with you, and I want you to know that you are not alone. I both voted for Obama, and support his initiatives now.

People who disagree with Obama's politics would accomplish more if they took their focus off of every little fly he swats, and put it instead on the next election, and the current condition of the Republican party.

But as others have correctly observed, most critics, (the self described "patriots"), would rather not have a President who urges children to prepare for the future, but a President who reads stories about goats while our financial center gets attacked by our enemies.

But your other observation about having been raised with talk about the end of the world, does make you, statistically speaking, rather alone outside of the FLDS, or other orthodox survival type groups. This is not a bad thing. It means you have a treasure, a knowledge, a gift, something you can draw on to communicate with others.

uncaduff said...

bbgae hon, a question for you. would you rather have "free", but limited health care paid for with money taken from others against there will, or would you rather have a job with wages willingly paid by others, thereby enabling you to buy your own health care?
the "Crick" was a microcosm of what America will be when it's been socialized, don't you remember the lack of personal incentive when "everything belonged too us all?" socialism kills initiative, freedom and privet ownership fosters it. there is no prosperity for the common people without the right to own the fruits there labors.

Anonymous said...

Good post uncaduff.

I guess bbgae or judith have never read "Animal Farm" in high school government class.

I think everyone should have a health savings account.

If the government mandated you use the funds from your account first, the ER's would not be so crowded.

I notice when people have to spend their own money, they are not so eager to let it go.

uncaduff said...

when I was about 12 years old, my mom read Animal Farm to us kids. I got chastised for saying "Mom that sounds like home". It took living under our own little social experiment before I learned how right I was. it seems to me that honest people who have socialistic beliefs have a sort of hunter gatherer mind set, that is they tend to not understand that there's more ways to acquire what they need than just finding it where it's at, they don't seem to realize that shortages aren't permanent, that they can be remedied with good old imagination and initiative. Problem is, under collectivist control there initiative is stifled.

Anonymous said...

9/19/2009 7:03 PM anonymous
Ruth

Did you know if you put to many mice in a cage , they will begin to eat each other?

That's what happens when you confine thousands of people in compounds, wall out the outside world, and they are required to all think , believe the exact same way, dress alike, all their duties are assigned.
People begin to destroy each other without freedom. It could be abuse of the physcial kind, or sexual kind, or taking your children away. In a controlled group of society, there are no freedoms. Your rights are taken from you. Ruth, you along with many other men women and children were part of the controlled experiment by Warren Jeffs, and Flds as to how much they could actually do to a person, and still remain loyal. Ruth, why are you still loyal? Why do you defend?
Is it because the leaders told you its all you have?
They have taken all you had!

Judith said...

Anonymous said:
"I guess bbgae or judith have never read "Animal Farm" in high school government class"

You're wrong. Next time ask, and don't make assumptions. You don't know anything about my politics except that I voted for Obama, so don't make statements about someone you don't know.

Stamp said...

Warren has led the FLDS into a destruction by law.

How many lawsuits / Trials / Appeals can you count?

--------------------

Preston Barlow Suit

Allan Steed Trial

Warren Jeffs MJ Appeal

Twin Cities Berry Knoll Suit

Lyle Jeffs Berry Knoll Appeal

Elissa Walls Suit

FLDS Federal Appeal

Warren Jeffs AZ Trial

Warren Jeffs Federal Fugitive Escape Trial

-------------

Geez thats off the top of my head as active - but still to be resolved is Harker Farms, UEP and Wisans and his Attorneys fees, which obviously are going to grow with the failure of the FLDS to Repent and settle with something that is down to earth.

Oh wait there are 12 men facing something like 18 Indictments in Texas.

Thats what, about "30" current or pending trials, appeals and suits?

Oh dont forget, those 18 Texas indictments and other convictions may well turn into appeals too, along with some others that pop up, so within the next 3 years we are looking at some 50 "FIFTY" court dances.

Gods gift to Attorneys indeed. Who knew the FLDS were sent by God to ensure Attorneys kids get the finest education?


Is this to be the FLDS legacy? Out with a bang of lost court cases?

Rebeckah said...

"If the government mandated you use the funds from your account first, the ER's would not be so crowded."

I think that's a good point. I had government medical assistance for my children their entire childhoods. I appreciate it greatly as my son required two surgeries, one an emergency appendectomy, and was plagued with ear infections as a toddler. He would have had hearing loss as an adult at best and mostly likely be dead by now without that assitance. On the other hand, I can count on one hand the number of times I took either of my children to the emergency room. It always irked me to see them full of moms and kids with runny noses on the few times I did go in. I guess the difference between me and those mothers is that while I deeply appreciate the assistance my children received, I NEVER took it for granted as my "right". As a result, I didn't want to abuse it. ;)

Stamp said...

They compiled a list over at TexasFlds that shows the bulk of the Financial and Legal issues facing the FLDS right now.

WOW its amazing, and yet they forgot a few that I can remember.

Carolyn Jessops child support suit (up sept 28) and also the Theresa Steed case, which will likely point to Nathan as the 13th indictee.

Also all the IRS liens in USA and Canada are too numerous to mention but at first glance its something like 8 million.

I dont recall a point in history that any religious sect faced this kind of financial and legal issues.

Guess "keeping secretive" is out.

http://texasflds.wordpress.com/2009/09/21/flds-financial-and-legal-menu-fall-2009/#comment-11417

Anonymous said...

Polygamy charges in Bountiful, B.C., thrown out.
A B.C. court has thrown out polygamy charges against two religious leaders, ruling former B.C. attorney general Wally Oppal was wrong to ask a third special prosecutor to take the case after the first two prosecutors decided the men should not be charged.

B.C. Supreme Court Judge Sunni Stromberg-Stein ruled Wednesday that the attorney general did not have the authority to appoint a new special prosecutor to consider the cases of Winston Blackmore and James Oler of Bountiful, B.C., after the first special prosecutors recommended against charges.

Blackmore and Oler had petitioned the court to stay the charges, arguing that the B.C. attorney general had gone "special prosecutor shopping" until he found someone who would go ahead with charges.

The judge agreed, ruling the appointment of special prosecutor Terrence Robertson — and therefore the decision to charge the men — was "unlawful."

Anonymous said...

I have been reading many of the comments on this blog, and am fascinated with the FLDS religion. I just bought a house that once belonged to the Steeds on Danish Road in Sandy, UT. I hear that it is the house where the curtain factory was. I am interested in the history of the house and the other houses that were here at the time. Does anyone know how I can find out more information or how I can contact some of the Steeds that lived here?

Anonymous said...

Many of us have become "fascinated" (and simultaneously appalled) with the flds "religion." It is perhaps the most organized system of institutionalized abuse of individuals, and multi-generational stripping of basic American civil rights of its less-powerful members, of any "religion" of which I have ever heard which was long-lived on US soil. During your fascination period, make certain you delve into the website flds 101, written by a former flds member who was lucky enough to get out alive and apparently in one piece. (Many have not been.)There are now a plethora of books and articles on this "fascinating" bunch-and, I am certain, more to come. In my opinion, (based on my own fascination(outrage) of over 4 years and many thousands of hours of reading,all flds adult members are criminals,all lawless, with a well-scrubbed outward appearance, except for those still too young and/or mentally handicapped to realize what has been done to them.The brainwashing is so thorough that one of their most intelligent ex-members, Carolyn Jessop, did not leave until the age of 35- largely because she was unwilling to abandon her 8 kids to the hypocritical and lie-based society of the flds.

uncaduff said...

some similarities between FLDS leadership and our present administration in government.

1 Arrogance behind a thin veneer of humility and sanctimony .
2 Twisting accepted beliefs to fit there agenda.
3 Accusing others of what they are guilty of themselves.
4 Turning the innocent actions of those they disagree with into something sinister.
5 Concocting emergencies or chrysies to further there agenda.
6 Creating non existent “enemies of the people”
7 Inferring that the ordinary individual is incapable of thinking clearly.
I think we should all take heed.

Anonymous said...

Just a odd question based on tracing a IP address. Are there any FLDS people north of El Dorado Kansas? Not Texas, but Kansas.

Stamp said...

uncaduff

Amazing similarities, ha ha.

But they call him the Messiah, not the Prophet. Shall we call it "Close enough"??

His father was a plyg too as I recall.

==============

Anon 12;03

Yes there are, Pringle SD and Mancos Co, as well as perhaps other houses of hiding, as well as travelers, such as Pliggy aka diesel aka Alan, who travels the US and may log in from anywhere.

Anonymous said...

Stamp

Are the big houses and ladies in old fashioned clothes located at
Cosnino Arizona FLDS?

Stamp said...

Mohave County AZ, NOT Coconino county, (to the south) which it appears you have misspelled.

And in Washington County, UT.

Some years back WA county sheriff Kirk Smith

Pictured here!

https://news.washeriff.net/sheriffs-message/

Allowed polygamist Orson William Black to escape with his child brides (to Mexico) after his deputies surrounded the house.

Black requested that he have till morning to surrender.

On what reason on God's Green Earth Smith let him escape is beyond me - they didnt even stake out the house, he just packed up and skipped town in the middle of the night.

see this regarding the story

http://www.childbrides.org/abuses_pnt_plig_probe.html

Anonymous said...

because these creepy men always get to walk why the victums are persicuted. Sounds like our cops alright.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Stamp.

The place I am speaking of is called Cosnino which is east of Flagstaff, just before Winona.
There are several large Colorado City style homes there.

A resident in the area there told me that the folks there were Mormon, but he rarely saw the women and children.
Just the men, who were buttoned to the top and wearing long sleeves all the time.

Anonymous said...

Hello Ruth!

Did Laurene move out of Colorado City?

Anonymous said...

I will answer your question about Laurene. I know absolutly nothing about her. Not a whit. Not since Val died.......I could go look at her house I suppose, but I will not.

Stamp said...

I had not heard of Cosnino even though I have been through there a few times.

I "DO" know there are multiple houses of hiding, that besides YFZ the FLDS own other properties in TX, such as in the New Braunfels area (Barb lived there awhile too) and of course Mancos and Pringle.

Consider "R17" which indicates 17 seperate properties.

Also I've heard they have properties in Mexico, yes the FLDS do.

That perhaps fueled speculation that they were to move there about the time they went to YFZ.

Perhaps Warren couldnt speak Spanish. Not surprised if it was as simple as that.

Anonymous said...

The Lord always lets people fill their cup. As simple as that. You have chosen. We believe in being honest. It is as simple as that.

Stamp said...

Hmmm that was a cryptic post.

Especially since today, or this week at least, Merril Jessop will finally fill Carolyns cup with all the past money for child support he has skipped out on.

And in light of some 50 trials, suits and Tax liens, I wouldnt exactly say the FLDS have a full cup.

It looks like somebody dropped it and not only drained it they broke the cup.

Stamp said...

Talk about your cup runneth over.

Today, Merril is caught lying, giving a cheesy excuse that made his atty cringe, and Raymond was served with two court documents that really make him look sunk.

Cup runneth over, indeed!

See txBluesman blog for details.

Stamp said...

NEWS FLASH

See texasbluesman site for breaking news on JESSOP VS JESSOP, Merril folded and gives Carolyn all she asked for - in light of damning evidence Natalie has stacked before him.

Also Raymond has been served with two court documents, including "Prior Bad Acts"..

Anonymous said...

Stan agreed to reassign Laurene
upon orders. Is this true?

Stamp said...

Anybody else heard there are still men being kicked out since Lyle was promoted from Head dishwasher to Bishop?

What other nonsense is goin on? I heard its gotten real testy at the crick. But I dont live there soo...

Anonymous said...

anybody thinking what I'm thinkin'? Network somewhere announces: New prime time drama (sitcom..?) based on real life non-stop Pay-a-ton Place/All My Dozens of Children/General Hysteria of..you guessed it.. .the one and only Fun-and-mental Lie-a-Day Sprains

Anonymous said...

you sound like me now. What is up? did you go to hell too.....not far to go, hu? just turn on these programs. and look at this web blog.

Anonymous said...

according to flds theology, i have been goin to H*#$ since birth(because I am not flds- never was) Just have read a heck of a lot and believe me, I can never get over what this load gets away with. I keep figuring it's those wide open spaces. Can't get the cops there fast enough, too much fear in the victims, not enough jail space, and too much plyg money keeping things oiled in UT and AZ, and maybe elsewhere.

Anonymous said...

please do not get involved. Hell is a good place to be. Just think the men would not have any one to make them a hero if they was to care about there woman and not throw them in those creepy government houses to keep them quiet, so they could have another victum to harrass. Makes them look better and they think they will assend to heaven faster. pLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, DO NOT BURST THIER BUBBLE YET. THEY HAVE NOT HAD AN AWAKING YET. LIKE THOSE WHO LEAVE AND OPENLY CONFESS THEIR SINS. IT MAKES THEM LOOK BIGGER TO MAKE WOMAN AND CHILDREN CRAWL..... At least out of my City every one just.....what ever....only the honest are true Christians.....

Judith said...

This blog has just gone back into the "us and only us" zone. Please bear in mind that communication is not just saying what is on your mind, it is saying what you have to say to others who don't all live in the exact same world. I for one would understand more if y'all would make an effort to use subjects, predicates, nouns, verbs, and some punctuation.

Anonymous said...

"...if y'all would make an effort to use subjects, predicates, nouns, verbs, and some punctuation."


Okay, here it is Judith.

subjects, predicates, nouns, verbs, and some punctuation.

Rebeckah said...

lol!

That was mean, Anonymous 9:58. Funny, but mean. ;)

uncaduff said...

Judith us plig kids dow no nuna them big ol words cuz we ditn git no book larnnin cuz we wuz to bizzy warshin unca warns carz an kuttin is grass an junk.

Judith said...

Rebeckah, I didn't think was Anonymous 9:58 said was was mean, I thought it was pretty funny. And uncaduff, I never said "use big words." I said 'write so others can understand what you are saying.' But if you prefer to use a blog just to vent, well I guess you can.

Stamp said...

uncaduff

HAW! Great one!

Say, I bet the Twisted Twelve are taking law classes with Willie, so they can recognize it when the judge PWNS their sorry butts!

The evidence stands, now the world gets / has to see the FLDS dirty laundry.

uncaduff said...

Judith, have you no sense of humor?
:D :D :D

uncaduff said...

Stamp, from what Ive been told concerning the volume of the material, I'm guessing that the Texas authorities have the bulk of the FLDS priesthood records from the beginning of the "Church?". could be interesting.

Anonymous said...

I guess, in this case, keeping accurate records [for the most part] can get yur behind roasted, as well as 10-life! [Being 'dramatic' for a sec..] Maybe in the future they'll learn to lie and hide information. OH Wait! That didn't work either!!
ARGH!

--MC--

Judith said...

uncaduff,
Well, humor is not my strong suit. But didn't I say that I thought Anonymous'comment was funny? I did. So occasionally I have a sense of humor. (You're not the first person to tell me to lighten up.)

uncaduff said...

Judith ;D

Anonymous said...

You did not understand what I said? I will say it with perfect proper English; There are some men in town, that think they can beat up their wives and children. They do this thinking that their wives and children are stupid. They think no one will know the difference and they just have stupid wives and children. Why would any one care? They are the great big hero's and there wives and children are stupid, so it is ok. And if this is not proper english enough for you, remember that why these men are busy beating up their wives and grinding them to the dust, they may the woman and children may have forgotton there was such a thing as proper english, let alone proper edickut.....just beatings, insults and slam dunking.....that is what is taught the best here in the creek. hate your wives and beat them up, then smile when any one hears about it and call them liars......keeps them rich......

Stamp said...

Dang Anon

I think everyone wants to see an end to that. You realize there is help for you if you need it, right?

I hope if you are still in that situation you get out now.

Look, the world doesnt revolve around the FLDS anymore. Warren fixed that.

Merril Jessop and the boys just got their butts handed to them by a woman, Natalie Malonis.

Wouldn't be surprised to see a long line of women waiting to see her.

Anonymous said...

The problem is the wrong men was kicked and the wrong men went to jail. The woman are waiting. Course I know nothing about Merril Jessop and them. Just this; Merril Jessop had a boy who did try to destroy me. He never told his name. so, Merril could not know his dishonest boys with out knowing there name. Just like the rest of the fathers. They know there dishonest boys; and they excuse them. But in the end the honest will triamph. Merril said he had a job to do. Now, I am not critazising Merril. I am not critasizing the judge. I am thinking Merril will know what his woman felt like on all those med's any how. It will give him compassion. I walked there first. Poor boys. They should not ever expect the woman to do what they will not do. I feel bad for them.....Poor boys....poor boys....but Merril will be ok. Just wait until judgment day.......when the crowns are given....poor boys......I will tell you why I did not charge my abuser. He loves contention. forgiveing him will hurt worse. I am not a judge. I am not the Lord. His sins will forever be before his face. How, they betrayed the ones who loved them.
the ones who cared. May his debt be to God; and may he repent; so he will not dwell in hell forever..........Like they said of David, who delt with uria....or whom ever. Teh one who had it all and betrayed the Lord for anohter man's wife......My sorrow is only temparry. His is forever.......and may the inacnet be delivered....and the Judge...may she also dwell in peace. for no dishonest person is at peace...let her take upon her the truth of her deeds....for truth stands forever....and fill her cup as she desires; for hell is a great big place and heaven is bigger......to hold what each man chose in their hands...........and may I forgive and repent....for Judgement is mine sayeth the Lord. And this life is short....lies never stay, but are exposed and every thing is written in the heavens. and the condition of this people was written before we was born......

Stamp said...

"The women are waiting" Which ones? Warrens wives?

The kicked mens wives?

Who do you think should have got kicked instead?

The fact Merril will now pay child support will have a big effect on what goes on in Utah. The women will learn they can leave, with their children, and they can file for support.

They deserve it. Even Warrens wives, most of whom probably werent so thrilled about getting stuck with string bean anyway.

Judith said...

Yes Anonymous, I get that you and many people have been hurt. I'd like to see hurt minimized or healed also. I've had a lot of anger in my life too. I finally realized that anger is self feeding, but if it helps you, that's fine.

I can say for sure, that getting angry at me, because I asked for some consideration, will not help you alleviate anything. And if you think it is all about "proper English" then you truly did not read what I wrote, or think about it from my angle. That is what happens to people who vent all the time, they don't listen to anyone but themselves.

Anonymous said...

Ruth
As a human being, you have a right to life. Life where you can still dream, still be able to be the person you were meant to be.
I don't care whether your grammar is good or bad. But I do care about the fact you have lost your children, and what agony that must be.
No one had a right to take your choices away from you. NO HUMAN!
But, your choices were taken. First by the prophet, then your father, then your husband, then Sam Barlow and all the men which came after.
Ruth there are people who would be willing to help you. But you have to be willing to help yourself.
God never expected the women he created to be beaten, drugged, or their children taken away or allowed to die. Warren Jeffs cares nothing about you Ruth, or any other woman in Flds. You think Warren Jeffs didn't know what Richard or Sam Barlow were doing to you Ruth?
Warren was the prophet, HE allowed these horrible things to happen to you.
Warren could of stopped it! But he didn't. He had nothing to do with God Ruth, but everything to do with Warren Jeffs, the men of Flds.

Anonymous said...

Yes, people want to help me. What can they do? blaming Warren is not going to give my children back. yes. They had no right. but they done this. I need to heal. I am in some ways. Life goes on. I was not the only one hurt. My children were too. yes, people want to help. they did take all my rights away. I felt like I was a prisonor of a child molester and no one cared. What was done to me had nothing to do with people. It had nothing to do with law. It was just making me a prisoner of a man and his lies....I think that is what hurt. Yes, I need to heal and you are right, who ever said this had nothing to do with grammer. I used to get straight A's in school and was never in trouble one day of my life, until I met this horrid man. But every one blames the wrong person. I knew too. Did that mean I could stop it. I was poor. I was the woman. I knew no one. these men had the lawyers. They had the money. Yes any one could have stopped it. but who did?

Anonymous said...

Ruth,
You are a bright woman, and regardless your age, you can start over. You can get help. What If I find someone who is an attorney who could help you either see or get your child back?

Would you be willing?
Im not sure you could stay in Colorado City or where ever you are now, but think about it, okay?

Anonymous said...

and you are right; one day I will meet a man who cares about me. Besides the Lord. I will meet a man who cares about me. I will meet a man who is not a liar. I will meet a man who is not a thief. I will meet a man who does not hurt woman and children just to show how big he is. I will meet a man who cares...yes; one day I will meet a man who cares about me. one day I will meet a man who wants to protect and protect, and protect....if there is such a man. One who will not hire lawyers to carry out his threats and insults. One who will not pay to destroy my life, but one who cares.....One day I will meet a man who cares....

Judith said...

Ruth,
If you are the person who wrote the comment at 5:18, thank you. That was something I could understand from beginning to end, and that's why I'm here. My comment about intelligibility was not in response to you, or to any one person. It was out of exasperation when a small inner circle of people starts talking to each other in short hand, and I don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Speaking of past performance in school; I was never an A student, and I have zero interest in the score, for the sake of the score. I'm interested in other things. And specifically, I'm interested in what you, and everyone else here, is trying to say. So thank you for making the effort, I appreciate it.

Anonymous said...

Who ever said they would help me get my child back, I would say now, I am willing. I did not know what was best when my sons were younger, but the oldest left and will not come back no matter what. He would not tell me what happened to him. So they took my children just to hurt us all. I have a nine year old daughter that I can not see, because him and his cop friends beat me up, if I even go near his house. Yes, who ever you are, I am willing. If it is the right attorney and they defend me. My daughter is beautiful and deserves more than we got. We desserve more than we got. Yes, I want my daughter. I am willing. because I do not want her to leave like my son and say, "I will never go back to that place no matter what, Mother. And it was not because of you, Mother" Those words were so painful and in some ways, I think I failed him....but he is a great son......I should have took them all ten years ago. I would have if I would have known who to turn to for help, when he was beating me.......

Anonymous said...

Her is how he did it. First he screamed at me, because Uncle Rulon loved me. He took me to Uncle Fred to be punished. Uncle Fred would not do this. So he was angry and punished me. He beat my sons and me. Then he took my daughter. Then he went out and found people who would beat me up. With his flattering lies he did this. No one talked to me. I did not know he was coniving, behind my back to destroy me. Then he was happy, because he found the people he said would destroy me. they took me in the night, when no one was looking, and told every one else I had ran away. they went behind my back to the Judge; I never did hear that story. And Told me I was hated and could not ever come home again. Nice man, on appearances, except every thing he done was a lie.....It is not like his abuse was a secret. They just all had excuses to cover it up. His first wife, said Uncle Rulon told her he would give her to some one else, but she loved him. Why, I do not know, because she cried so much in her room and looked the other way when he beat and teased her children.. and she is as happy as I was.....She ran away from him more than I did though. I just refused to go back after a year. He would always go after her. I guess I can see why she finally started lying to cover up his abuse. What they do to you as a whole for reporting abuse is terrible. She ran away so many times, and told me she could not imagine being beat. And I told her she could have him and left. And who cared? Not him. Not my Mother. Not my sister. He was the hero, because he could punish me. they said he would save the retard now....But I left him. My sons left him.....The other's wait until he comes and jump up to please him, so they do not get beat, and he beats them any how. then they relax when he is gone....And they keep their mouths shut in public. He is a controler. And one day, My daughter will have more than his lies too......and when he punishes, he takes us out alone, where no one will see. When I see him, I tell the Lord, "there is the Devil" for I know no other. and one day I will be free from him for real. The day I die. It will be the happiest day of my life, because his lies will not touch me there.......

Anonymous said...

I found a religious group which is borrowing from FLDS teachings!!!

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/

Anonymous said...

for crying out loud-!! flds teachings are mostly polygamy, polygamy, "prophet" worship, "prophet" hynosis, and polygamy!(I am leaving out underage wedlock because Willie J promised they'd quit that,since "they don't do it anyway!") I actually glanced briefly at landoverbaptist.com to see what the heck you at 10-12-09 8:40 AM are smokin'(or what landover is smokin')
For heaven's sake! Even a lengthy glance does not show one iota worth comparing as "similar" to flds. (Does anybody's beliefs, except other "fundymorms?") You know that! If you don't, you're ingesting something I never have! I'm outta here before wasting time arguing with folks who obviously better do something else with their time, too! (shaking head and walking away!)

Anonymous said...

Has anybody read on theHopeorg website the story written by the Eldorado Success, October 8, 2009 about the suppression hearing and the new Texan Trust?

Stamp said...

Why yes! The new trust is

TEXAS STAKE OF ZION CHURCH AND TRUST

TSOZCAT

You can surf the site for the motion info too its all there

http://texasflds.wordpress.com/2009/10/09/musical-trusts-aka-hide-the-ranch/#comments

Anonymous said...

what is this called Caroline's little pad of deception, and lies; gig trust; the one's who would rob you blind and steal from your friends trust; so you know you have been jilted by a thief and a liar again? site? gee, from one liar to the next.... first it was Flora looking for glory, then Caroline and then Laurie; and their stupid stooges and the fancy camera that covered up the truth, so America could have their sensational lies and people that did not need hurt are hurt again, trust of lies, gig?

Anonymous said...

It is getting a little too quiet around here, so it is now time for a FLDS spiritual lesson.

all women throughout time are cursed. Our only hope for salvation is to bear children. Jesus said so. The apostle Paul, the Lord’s posthumous press secretary, tells us in First Timothy 2:11-15: “Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.”

Anonymous said...

now aint that "Doctrine of Men" in every way you look at it? it sure don't sound like Doctrine of Woman to me. :D

Uncaduff

Anonymous said...

besides you have to know how to read the bible. Jesus came to save the world, not make slaves of women. Jesus did not come to make Monsters of men either.....the law makes men and women free. Men make idiots of women and men....

Anonymous said...

is that quiet enough for you?

Anonymous said...

"Anonymous said...
is that quiet enough for you?"

Hush woman, be sweet.

Put a towel over your face and show no emotion.

Anonymous said...

To quiet? Never! More good times are coming, I promise....

Good to see this blog is still alive. Someone had me look at Joseph Rohbocks story tonight. November 9th 2006, thank goodness for the archives.

Have a good evening.

fincenMIB/Jay Beswick

Anonymous said...

Matthew 23:9 says; "And call no man your FATHER (this includes Priests) upon the earth: for one is your Father which is in heaven."

What is the FLDS viewpoint on the use of "Father" in the household?

Anonymous said...

If You want to know for real what Fundamental Mormonaisim is get out your Bible and Book of Mormon. Read and study, until you have the answer to every thing.

uncaduff said...

10/28/2:16
friend, I have done that and although I don't know the answer to everything, I'm confident that I know the answer to what fundamental Mormonism is; especially concerning Polygamy. while basic Mormonism incorporates much of Orthodox Christianity,there are many factors added that aren't supported by the Bible or the Book of Mormon. the Book of Mormon and the Bible both denounce Polygamy, as well as does the fundamental concept of the Human right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Anonymous said...

Women cannot become gods in their own right. A woman's hope lay solely in being a wife and mother-one of many wives to her husband; mother of many, many children. She thereby contributes to her husband's future kingdom and will ultimately share in his glory as a goddess, an immortal being who will rule under him and alongside her sister wives for eternity. A woman is dependent on her husband god to "pull her through the veil" of death into heaven and divinity. Polygamous women whose husbands for some reason do not merit becoming gods can be sealed to other worthy men. Unmarried women and monogamous women can look forward to being angels in the next life. Angels are forever single and childless, ministering servants to the gods, and part of the celestial audience attendant at others' earthly weddings.

Anonymous said...

uncaduff good and truthful answer!

Anonymous you gave an excellent example of what fundamentalist believe in the afterlife regarding women and salvation.

uncaduff I have studied Mormonism and my conclusion it is not a christian religion. It is a counterfeit.

I would like to hear your view.

My understanding in Mormonism Jesus is a brother to Lucifer both created beings, and equals. This Jesus/Lucifer father was an actual a man/god who earn godhood.
God in Mormonism are three separate gods.

Fundelmentalist like the FLDS believe God is Adam, Jesus a man who earned his godhood and gave his life for salvation of all mankind, and the Holy Spirit who will comeback some day as Joseph Smith.

Jesus in Christianity is God himself who came to earth in flesh to paid the price of man's sin with his human blood.

So my definition of a Christian is one who believes in ONE GOD who is spirit who has manifested Himself to man three ways, God FATHER, SON (Jesus) AND HOLY GHOST (God spirit manifested on earth) as the Bible teaches.

Anonymous said...

This planet was given to Adam as a reward for his own obedience to the Celestial Law on aother world. Adam, known prior to his earthly incarnation as Michael the Archangel, was granted the status of a god because of his righteous life. Earth was to be his domain, and the wives and children he acquired on that other world were to help him populate this one, which he would then rule over as God the Father, spoken of in the Christian scriptures. Adam came to Earth with one of his celestial wives to begin mortal life for their spirit children. Their primary mission was to procreate and populate their world, providing bodies to all their spirit children so those children would have the opportunity to work out their own salvation.

uncaduff said...

10/29/4:32.
my views on the matter are; no Church or religion is any better than the people who make it up. I would say that when men teach what may be called religion or doctrine, that they will go as far as those being taught will let them, in purporting there own ideas. To me the summation of Christianity is; love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself. Anyone who lives by this is Christian, regardless of the organization they belong too.
that is my humble opinion. :D

Judith said...

Anon @10:22:

"Women cannot become gods in their own right."

Quite true. Neither can men, despite their beliefs about themselves.

Anonymous said...

Brigham Young said that men who treat their wives like trash will be saddly disapointed in the next life. he said that the women will have there pick of any man they like there. so, just because a man can make a fool of a woman and treat her like trash does not mean she is not going to get her glory. I speak of men abusing woman, because I am a woman and have never known anything else. and woman never become Gods and they have power to communicate with the Lord just as well as any one else. It is weird, because i did think it was apostates trashing me on this web page. Now, I find it is the good' ol' boys. I have not had one friend in my entire life, until I was forcefully kicked out of the church. Now, I have one or two friends. I wonder why we never met when we was all in the Church. Probably because I have not ever heard anything except I was going to hell, because I did not do what some horrid, creepy man told me to do. I can not go to hell. they created the greatest hell there is ever known to man. I only have to worry about rising above there creepy talk and judgment and hatred of me. Luckly now, I have a freind or two now, and I just leave it to the rest of them to figure out hell. Today I am happy, and I know when I die, I am going with the Lord Jesus; who is just and loves me.......and all these men who wanted to prove to every one that I will forever be in hell, can worry about hell. I hardly ever worry about religion either, because these men used religion to destroy.........and they do not belong in my head any more.........there talk. I am sure they know about hell. but it is heaven I am curiouse about and desire to see.........If any one really knows...that is what I want to know about...........for what they done to me in his church is the greatest hell....and they enjoyed there torment.....

Anonymous said...

Interesting interview:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vuo-WOGxBQg

Anonymous said...

Heaven is a Real Place
After Jesus was raised from the dead he went to heaven. The Bible says: "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven." (Acts 1:11)
Prior to this Jesus told His disciples: "In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. (John 14:2,3)

We will have physical bodies in heaven
Our bodies will be free from disease, pain and death in heaven. (1 Corinthians 15:40-49)
We will still have physical bodies. The Bible says: For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body. (Philippians 3:20,21) The body of Jesus after His resurrection was physical. Jesus said: "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have."
(Luke 24:39)
We will be able to recognize our loved ones. The Bible says: "For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known." (1 Corinthians 13:12)

NO MARRIAGE IN HEAVEN
Romans 7:2, NIV. "By law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage."

MATTHEW 22:23 On that day there came to him Sadducees, they that say that there is no resurrection: and they asked him,
22:24 saying, Teacher, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
22:25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first married and deceased, and having no seed left his wife unto his brother; 22:26 in like manner the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.
22:27 And after them all, the woman died.
22:28 In the resurrection therefore whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.
22:29 But Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as angels in heaven.

Anonymous said...

HEAVEN CONTINUED....

The Bible speaks about hosts or inhabitants of both heaven and earth. "Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished." (Genesis 2:1)
The Bible mentions that beings on other planets rejoiced at the creation of the earth. "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" (Job 38: 7)
The biblical prophet Micaiah said: "I saw the LORD sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing on His right hand and His left. (2 Chronicles 18:18)

Life in the New Earth
"Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea." (Revelation 21:1)
"Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." (Revelation 21:2)
"And" God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away." (Revelation 21:4) "The wilderness and the wasteland shall be glad for them, and the desert shall rejoice and blossom as the rose." (Isaiah 35:1)
"The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, the lion shall eat straw like the ox, and dust [shall be] the serpent’s food. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain," says the LORD. (Isaiah 65:25)
"They shall build houses and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit". (Isaiah 65:21)

Many of these promises from the Old Testament were given on condition that the Jews would keep God commandments and receive the messiah. (See Jeremiah 17:23-25) God would have put an end to sin and recreated the world at that time. Since His people did not accept Him, the culmination is put off until He will come the second time. He will then fulfill many of these Old Testament prophecies.

How does a person get to Heaven and the New Earth?
Contrary to popular belief, the Bible says we do not go to heaven or hell when we die. We sleep in the grave until the resurrection when the Bible says: "And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt. (Daniel 12:2)

Romans 10:8-10, TLB. "For salvation that comes from trusting Christ—which is what we preach—is already within easy reach of each of us; in fact, it is as near as our own hearts and mouths. For if you tell others with your own mouth that Jesus Christ is your Lord, and believe in your own heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in his heart that a man becomes right with God; and with his mouth he tells others of his faith, confirming his salvation."

Salvation cannot be earned, it is a gift. It's in the Bible, Ephesians 2:8-9, TLB. "Because of His kindness, you have been saved through trusting Christ. And even trusting is not of yourselves; it too is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good we have done, so none of us can take any credit for it."

Receiving salvation is a powerful, personal response to the gospel including repentance for sin. It's in the Bible, Acts 2:37-38, TLB. "These words of Peter's moved them deeply, and they said to him and to the other apostles, 'Brothers, what should we do?' And Peter replied, 'Each one of you must turn from sin, return to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins."

Judith said...

Don't the guidelines for this blog suggest not posting long winded rants? How about not cutting and pasting endlessly long religious texts that are not original to the poster, and can be accessed in other places?

Anonymous said...

thank you for your talk of heaven. It was beautiful.

Anonymous said...

as painful as it is for me to see the tears and pain of the Mother's in Zion, I would say it is no different than what they done to me. The Lord has thrown back upon them, what they have thrown upon me. they cried not a whit for me, yet they cry like baby's for them. Poor, poor Zion; they can not take what they gave. I pray for them though and suffer with them at the sorrow they have caused......

Judith said...

Anonymous @ 2:38 PM:
Well said. Thank you. That is something I can understand.

Stamp said...

Anon 2:38

Quite the sorrow has been brought down on them.

Its a good thing, to look and see the reasons why.

Rebeckah said...

“For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.”

I always thought that this showed that ADAM was the true transgressor. After all, Eve was deceived but Adam wasn’t, yet he ate of the fruit as well. Stupid man, and as usual, men have been trying to make women pay for their sin ever since.

“Women cannot become gods in their own right. A woman's hope lay solely in being a wife and mother-one of many wives to her husband; mother of many, many children.”

No thank you. I would prefer to be a good mother to a few children than mindlessly have a huge brood to assuage some foolish man’s ego.

“Unmarried women and monogamous women can look forward to being angels in the next life.”

I’ll pass on that one too.

“Brigham Young said that men who treat their wives like trash will be saddly disapointed in the next life. he said that the women will have there pick of any man they like there. so, just because a man can make a fool of a woman and treat her like trash does not mean she is not going to get her glory.”

Did he really? Where? Was it before or after he told the women to quit whining or leave Utah? Before or after he said he thought no more of taking another wife than he did of getting a new cow? Apparently he’s going to be pretty disappointed if there really is a Mormon heaven – I seriously doubt any of the women he married and neglected would willingly choose him a second time around.

“Their primary mission was to procreate and populate their world, providing bodies to all their spirit children so those children would have the opportunity to work out their own salvation.”

Wow, Adam/Michael is a pretty lousy God if he can’t have children who are already saved without going through some rigmarole here on Earth.

Anonymous said...

Indeed,it is hard to watch folks in Joseph Smith-delirium-based belief systems as they put themselves (and their kids) through so much effort every day, thinking it makes them worthier than other human beings. There are so many non-sequiters(sp?)and hypocrisies in the things they embrace that I just cannot see how they stand it-The opportunity to be anything but just a very few "approved" things in life!!To listen to or look at just a tiny few types of things approved by someone else (ALWAYS)or risk complete condemnation- it is just awful. The fear factor keeps enough of them in long enough to milk another generation of its potential and money-making abilities.After all,it really only takes this group about 15 years maybe,(as opposed to the more typical 20 plus yrs for most of America on average)(some flds girls have given birth by age 13)- to create a whole new generation of hundreds usable drones.And before anyone screams that 13 is not unheard of in the rest of the US- remember this is BY DESIGN in this group- some of these girls have 6 kids by the time they are 20 or 21-I heard of one flds girl that originally wanted to be an architect, who was told she could finish high school and go to college if she married who and when told to. She had 8 kids years before she turned 30, and they were neglected and living crammed in a trailer out in the desert.It is NOT the same as a young girl having a baby now and then in any other part of the US.With their early and frequent pregnancies, dozens of flds girls are quite well-tied down by age 20. The free or almost-free labor of dozens of boys of the same age is extracted in exchange for fervent hopes of being given a wife. Most boys will find it incredibly hard to be obedient and will leave even before they are completely ejected. It would not surprise me if the leaders actually know all this precisely and know in their hearts they can never be wiped out rapidly in spite of these dreadful practices and attendant expensive legal problems. They know precisely how difficult it is for the boys to endure the severe limitations of expression and behavior, and they know precisely how to take the budding emotions of the girls and warp them toward the much older males of Warren's choosing. It's all atrocious and I hope a lot more convictions are forthcoming, including long sentences for some of the ranch women as well. They are at least as guilty as the men for all of this.Many people still do not realize that about half the kids on the ranch are not biological children of the adults living there. It is all disgraceful deception still going on.