Wednesday, November 15, 2006

FLDS denied Govt Benefits

Why are the FLDS having a hard time getting SSI and other govt benefits?

Other than the fact that Flora has lied on National TV and a very awful article on handicappped children..does it really have that much influence on the government agencys? (They say they are scared to come to town since WJ is in jail.) I thought if you qualified.


Anonymous said...

I seriously doubt that anything Flora or the media have said has caused someone to be unable to receive benefits.

As for people being afraid to "go to town" because wj is in jail, that doesn't make sense to me. Are you saying they are afraid to go to town, because they think they might be put in jail, too?

Anonymous said...

Is this an isolated case? Or is it for real?

Does this include everyone that belongs to the flds faith?

And more importantly, which STATE is this associated with, IF this is in fact true.

ATAR_i said...

SSI is meant to be social security income for the aged, blind and disabled - not for healthy women or men who are able to work.

There are people out there who don't have the option to work because of disabilities. It's not for a mother who chooses to stay home and take care of her children, and wants a bit of extra income to make ends meet.

Eligibility Requirements for SSI.

Anonymous said...

Don't these people pay taxes like everyone else?

Anonymous said...

Thank god for Flora and national news. Can you imagine what a shock it would be to the world if members of the FLDS went on national news? They would expose themselves by their own lies!! Some "slimeballs" more than others ;)

ATAR_i said...

Are you asking if the FLDS pay taxes - so shouldn't they be allowed to benefit for programs that are meant for the developmentally disabled and the blind (even if they aren't developmentally disabled and blind)?

That would be a rather absurd question - so I hope you didn't mean that.

Can you clarify what you do mean?

Anonymous said...

I live in colorado city and pay 7000.00 per year on taxes and have never been late. The UEP has paid taxes for 60 years and has never been late until yours truely tried to be the big hero. What a den of thiefs. Shame on everyone one of you. What goes around comes around. The board of Directors are a bunch of puppets for Mr Fischer. Wisen was his accountant. Very interesting. Denise Lingberg was his Attorney before she became a Judge. The mills of God grind slowly.

Anonymous said...

Reply to Anonymous 11/16/2006 1:40 AM

Don't these people pay taxes like everyone else?

Not really, the stats have it that for every $1 they pay in taxes, they take out $8 in services (Medicaid, food stamps, WIC, etc). How fair is that? I'm righteous. Where is my silver platter?

Anonymous said...

What kind of a system doesn't check to see if those that are getting the assistance really do need it?Do you have names or proof of this?If so then why does it continue to happen?Where do you get your info from. Your heading"FLDS denied Gov.Benefits"just sounded like because they are FLDS they were denied benfits.Yes I do think that if they are paying taxes they should get the help they need IF they need it.

Anonymous said...

I don't understand why the FLDS have to pay taxes if they don't really own the land they live on sounds like Mr.Weisen benifits more from Their than any of them do.Let him pay.
Just a kid wondering?????

muggsey said...


FLDS is required to pay taxes because of their closed society. If they were an open church where any person off the street was welcome, they would be considered as tax exempt. Public places of worship are exempt from paying taxes. Because of the closed nature of FLDS it is not considered as a place of public worship. By your rules only FLDS members in good standing are welcome. Not everyone is welcome. It is not open for public worship.

YFZ is a closed community. The temple is not open to the public. Therefore, YFZ is considered as privately owned and thus required to pay taxes, the same as any other business.

The Utah-Arizona "Creek" was deeded to FLDS as UEP. Taxes were paid on parcels, but not upon the whole. Individuals do not own the land upon which they built their homes and business. Those parcels of land, exclusivly used by FLDS, are subject to tax the same as those parcels upon which you people have built homes. The kicker is this: You paid tithes to Warren Jeffs who was obligated to pay taxes on all church owned properties from UEP funds. He has failed to do so. In addition he has excommunicated a large number of people who for years supported FLDS with huge amounts of money, often giving to the prophet instead of ensuring the care and welfare of their families. Several of those individuals took a stand against the prophet who was, at his own will, throw people out of their homes and community. These people filed suit against Warren Jeffs and the UEP. Upon state & federal examination, bank accounts supposed to be holding money earmarked for taxes was embezzled by Jeffs and spent building YFZ, the compounds in South Dakota, Oregon, and at Mancos, Colorado. UEP funds designated to pay taxes in support of your public school are missing too. Teachers were not paid. An airplane was purchased with school money and was used to ferry Jeffs from place to place in order to perform illegal marriages, including marriages of underaged girls. It is because of Jeffs disregard of the law, he is now in jail awaiting trial on multiple charges.

In addition, Jeffs has lived like a king since assuming power, having the keys to ten luxury automobiles upon his person when he was arrested in Hurricane, NV.

The UEP is financially defunct. A real-estate title is being issued to those who want to buy the land under their homes from UEP. The money from the sales is being held in reserve awaiting the outcome of a multitude of trials involving Jeffs and his associates. In all probability those funds will be returned to those who have lost their family, their personal wealth and their means of earning a living. First, however, funds will be used to pay the back taxes that Warren Jeffs refused to pay.

No one but Jeffs & friends have stolen anything from you nor any other individual. The tithes you now pay are going into secret accounts known only to Jeffs few close associates and co-conspirators.

"You shall know the truth and truth shall set you free." Believe this little proverb, or, continue in your blind servitude to Warren Jeffs and his insatiable greed.

Anonymous said...

The State and Federal Govt. set the eligibility for all programs. I have talked with these officials in AZ & UT. They have not had any fraud cases in the last few years. To change the eligibility to specifically target one group of AMERICAN CITIZENS so they could not get benefits is not constitutional and to change the reguirements would take off most of the people nationally that receive benefits now.
Yes, in this area we pay all the taxes paid in every other area. The land taxes on the AZ side are among the highest in the state. It is paid by people from the state line to past Cane Beds for the Fire & School district. Historically, because the people living on UEP land did not own the land or homes, a collection was asked for to make the payment each year and the few that were allowed to stay in their homes, because of the decision from the 1990's law suit, were billed anually and paid from that. The taxes were paid each year. Yes, typically you do not pay taxes on land you do not own. Wisan is asking that they do as a condition to remain on the land. He is trying to get the cities to approved the subdivisions so they can be deeded. Will he deed them in a fair, constitutional way. Treat everyone the same. That remains to be seen.

ATAR_i said...

Different states choose to tax all sorts of different events.

Sales Tax
Death Tax
Gas Tax
Property Tax
Sin Tax

are a few examples

If the property is owned by the UEP - then the UEP pays taxes, and they get the money for the taxes from the individuals who are living on the property. Someone is paying taxes.

My point is that just because you pay taxes doesn't mean that you are elligible for every program.

For instance - if you are a married man - you are probably not elligible for a program which helps out single mothers.

Just an example.

Sounds a little absurd to claim discrimination if you are not even elligible for the program.

rumor-has-it said...

The people who are on disability have to go thru more hoops than you can imagine. Have you no faith in the government empolyees?

There is prob a small percent of fraud...but they usually get caught.

Some say the people helping them are not getting paid. Some maybe it is a paperwork issue and victims always blame circumstances.

rumor-has-it said...

I hear rumblelings of people (whole families)thinking about moving out of town and across the US. I have to say that people that do that let Warren Win. People who have put their whole life in to building up the town have a hard time watching it get torn apart...

Steps to pull yourself out:
1. Distance yourself
2. Get outside friends
3. Get outside jobs
4. any other ideas?
The first year is the hardest...after that it gets easier.

Anonymous said...

Creeker's, it's funny that you hate the government and forbid outsiders,
...unless of course they're handing out checks
kinda cheezy, if you ask me.

Muggsey, great post, but you forgot one other little detail.
you know... all their pretty little daughters he got to have sex with
you can bet warren's bed was always nice and warm

Rumor, i do feel for you.
to see your town collapsing all around you is a shame but,
a mother's and father's number one priority is the safety and welfare of their own children
if they have means to get out of that little town turned hell-hole
they need to leave
and don't look back

keep sweet eldorado

muggsey said...


I haven't forgotten about the little girls. That subject has been re-hashed so often that I believe that anyone who is a regular on this blog is well aware of that particulaar situation, and abhores the very thought of such behavior.

Mr. Wisan is court appointed and cannot act unilaterally. Everything that he does in relationship to your situation has to be approved by the court. If he tells you that you are required to pay taxes on the real estate under your home then that issue has been decided by a court of law and is not Wisan's alone. The state governments are attempting to do something for you that you have never been able to accomplish upon your own. Hold permenant legal title to your property. Your staying in your house is no longer "at will."

If he tells you that you can reedeem your property from UEP ownership, then, when you pay the accessed value price of the property you will receive a receipt for your money and some sort of title to the land which you have occupied and now are owner.

Now, if in the future you allow some profit or church leader to convince your property would be better administered if owned by a future UEP ,or some such co-op, and you hand the title over, you can expect a repeat of your current circumstance. Hence the old saying, "I allow you to burn me once, shame on you, I stand still and get burned twice, shame on me!" Contrary to what you are told, you are responsible for your own situation. Smarten up, or plan on a second "fire."

Anonymous said...

So it's like paying taxes on a home you are renting. Where I live the Hutterites are a closed society and their church doesn't pay taxes their men are also not required to fignt for our country.Do the FLDS men also refuse to fight for their country.Have any of them gone to war?
Muggsey I think you meant Las Vegas Nev. didn't you.I asked that last question Muggsey ,you answered it like you were talking to someone from the FLDs community.
Another question.If their UEP thing is so messed up why not just do away with it?Why is this Mr Weisen in charge of it?Are the FLDS people still paying in to it?If so why? How did it help the people in the first place?
You guys sound upset that people get paid for helping the disabled.I know people here that make $25.00 an hour working with elderly people and others that make up to $17.00 an hour working with people with special needs.Are you saying that the FLDS shouldn't be paid anything for helping their people with special needs?That wouldn't be right either.The Gov.doesn't just hand money over to any one that asks does it ?There has to be a real need for the Gov. aid before they give you money.Dunb if they don't.OOOOh might be a Gov. plot to keep control of the people.Lets ask Flora.

feralfem said...

I disagree with Rumor's opinion that Warren wins if you leave town. Nevertheless, here are some other suggestions:

5. get more education - do whatever or go wherever necessary to take classes
6. create businesses in town or out that cater to everyone - friendly to insiders and outsiders
7. write a book or at least keep a journal - it's extremely therapeutic and good for progeny to read years later
8. start wearing clothing styles and colors of your own choosing
9. choose your own hairstyles - women might want to get a haircut, men grow a mustache / beard, etc.
10. leave if you have to for your own sanity or reducing the stress to you and your family - your/their health is most important
11. try to be realistic about the amount of influence you can have over extended family - your example is more effective than persuasion

There is help and support from the outside for anything you choose to do.

CHOICE is the name of the game. It's scary but stimulating all at the same time.

Do whatever it takes! Success is the best revenge.


Anonymous 10:07 is certainly erroneous with his/her facts it's too bad that annon will not use his/her name. I first met Dan Fischer more than a year after I became Special Fiduciary. Before being appointed Special Fiduciary I had never heard of his company. I have never been Dan Fischer's accountant or CPA. I can't speak for Judge Lindburg. I know that Judges do very thorough checks before accepting a case. So anonn 10:07 I don't know if you are just a liar or if you are just very loose with your facts. Please call me at 801 328 2011 and I will be happy to discuss this with you further.

muggsey said...

11/18 10:19

I'm sorry, but I don't understand either your bitterness nor your rambling sentences. I will address any question asked of me if I can understand just what it is that you are seeking. If I don't know the answer I'll be the first to admit so. There is such a mix of accusition, insinuation, and accomodation in your letter I just can't get a handle on just what you are driving to achieve.

Please clarify and I will try to answer questions rationally.

Who are the Hutterites? Are they a part of the multiple of mormon persuasions? Are they conscientious objectors? Are their places of worship open to the public? If not, are they like Quakers and don't have public houses of worship, but instead meet in homes? Are their settlements places of sanctuary similar to a convent?

Clarify and I will try to answer to the best of my limited ability.

Anonymous said...

Of course the FLDS serve their country. Many many of them have done so!!!! And they pay their taxes. I'm sick of the prejudices.

fttc said...

Mr. Wisan

Thank you for clarifying your position in regards to Mr. Fischer. These rumors have been going around the FLDS community for some time now. FLDS members have been more than willing to believe it. Perhaps a more public statement in relation to these rumors would help induce more cooperation with the FLDS.

I have heard that you will no longer be the fiduciary shortly. Is there truth to this? If so what will be status of the UEP? Is it to be dissolved? Or is someone taking your place? Thanks for your explanations.

Anonymous said...

The Hutterites are an Amish-like Protestant sect of Canada and Montana,No they have nothing to do with Mormonism,or any of it's off shoots.

Anonymous said...

Why are so many men of the FLDS practising tax fraud? Look at Val Jessop and his cronies trying to deceive Arizona and Fed. Income Tax.

muggsey said...

Annon 9:18

Thank you for the information. I learned something I didn't know. There are a lot of things I don't know, but that puts me square in the middle of the majority of the human race.

I still await clarification of 10:19's ramblings.

Anonymous said...

The mighty Bruce Wisan posted. I'd like the honorable Wisan to repond to this.....

Talk Isn't Cheap
Every time Bruce R. Wisan, the court-appointed fiduciary running the FLDS church's property trust, talks to the media, the time clock is ticking.

The sound it makes? Ca-ching, ca-ching.

Talking to reporters? Expensive!

Reforming the UEP Trust? Priceless!

The latest billing Wisan submitted to the court for approval this week includes charges for time spent talking to reporters. Wisan bills at the rate of $210 an hour. Dang, I should have majored in accounting.

I'll just get this confession over with now: I have unknowingly been burning up UEP money. Hey, at least I'm doing my job!

Here's the time and dollar breakdown, by reporter or media organization:

Brooke Adams/The Salt Lake Tribune: 4 hours, 24 minutes = $924

Ben Winslow/Deseret Morning News: 1 hour, 42 minutes = $357

Jennifer Dobner/The Associated Press: 1 hour, 15 minutes = $262.50

CNN: 1 hour, 15 minutes = $262.50

Brent Hunsaker/KTVX Utah, Channel 4: 1 hour, 9 minutes = $241.50

Helene Schinder: 36 minutes = $126

Kathy Mankin/The Eldorado Success: 24 minutes = $84

Patrice St. Germain/St. George Spectrum: 24 minutes = $84

Joe Danz/Channel 12, Las Vegas: 18 minutes = $63

Channel 4: 18 minutes = $63

Steve Jackson/ Channel 13, Las Vegas: 15 minutes = $52.50

Brian Hennessy/Channel 4: 15 minutes = $52.50

Larry King Live: 12 minutes = $42

Las Vegas Sun: 9 minutes = $31.50

Nevada Public Radio: 6 minutes = $21

Grand total: $2,667

I'd love how he justifies charging what he's charging. Talk about bleeding the beast. haha Anyone? Anyone? Buehler? Buehler? j/k

Anonymous said...

has anybody ever itemized Gummer jeffs'expenditurs from the UEP coffers?

Anonymous said...

If they could i wish they'd do that do.

muggsey said...

Wisan seems to be a pinchpenny compared to the cost of new Cadillac Escalantes, all paid expense trip for three to Disneyland, Knots Berry Farm, who knows what expenses in the casinos of Las Vegas, mulitple pre-paid cell phones, C.B. Radio, Radar detectors, police scanners etc. We're looking at over $75K in an effort to avoid the long arm of justice. At least Wisan, apointed by the court, is working to try to save the reminants of the UEP for those who paid the money in to the funding to begin with. Think otherwise? Think again, and this time engage your brain.

Thursday, in case you aren't aware, Jeffs was held over for trial on two counts of Rape as an Accomplice. If convicted Jjeffs could face life in prison. And that is just in Utah. He still must face similar charges in Arizona and various Federal Charges and charges yet to be filed because they are still under investigation.

Mr. Wisan, when considering the alternative, seems like a saint!

Anonymous said...

Yes taxes are paid but with so many sister wives claiming to be single mothers and then collecting WIC, welfare, food stamps, etc the government is losing a huge amount of money to these towns. On top of that they emptied the public schools of all their money and used it for personal use. I find this humerous since their kids were pulled out because they didn't want their precious children to associate with the "second ward" down the road.

Warren Jeffs is a freak and a pedophile and deserves everything he gets and more. He has destroyed so many lives in the name of God. Prophet? Whatever. He bans so uch from people lives and then he is found wearing shorts and a t-shirt, in a RED luxury car. He is the furthest thing from a prophet. I am sure that God wants to have a long talk with him but no about revelation but more about the things that Jeffs did in His name.

Anonymous said...


Your right he is better, but it seems a bit outrageous doesn't it? You won't loose, I won't loose because we aren't paying the bill. That money is coming from those people in CC and I bet we could find someone to take on interviews cheaper. It's like handing a rape victim over to a gentle rapist?

I also find it interesting that they've done the equivalent of taking a man's checkbook and paying people to testify against him. I know you'll say all things about WJ and you'll be right 95% time but that is just my observation.

muggsey said...

Whether you agree with the court system or not, their declaration is the law, unless overturned by a superior court. Mr. Wisen gives interviews to the media because that is a part of his job. If I were he, I would expect to be paid for my time whether it was office time, reviewing accounts, travel, or giving interviews to the press.

Had the UEP funds been properly managed and proper accounting proceedures done, taxes paid as per the law, then none of Mr. Wisen's services would be needed. He is being paid, as any other qualified person would be, had that person proven competent and be named by the court to act in behalf of those members of the UEP who lost much of their wealth because of fraudulent activities spawned and enabled by Warren Jeffs.

As far as the population of C.C. & Hildale, the whole investigation is the result of their failing to refuse Jeffs, et. al., access to the UEP funds. Mass mis-management, from co-recepients and payers into UEP to their bad selection in whom they chose to manage said funds. Why should other taxing intities pick up the tab to clean up the mess?

Anonymous said...


I think this is the most level headed response i've ever got from you. Thanks!


Anonymous said...

Do they have records of those that put money into the U.E.P.?Why not just give the money back to those people and shut the thing down and be done with it.I don't think It is right for that Mr.Wisen to be blowing it all like he is.Sounds like these poor people continue to be screwed by someone else.