Friday, October 27, 2006


True Measure of a Man

Before i ever left the creek, questions churned deep inside my soul that i could not shake.

What is the true measure of a man, if everything he does is only to impress someone else?

Would he:

Give his last dollar if no one was watching him?

Adopt a small family and take them into his own and care for them if he wasn't commanded too?

Teach his family what he thought was right if he wasn't scared of losing them?

Give contributions to needy causes, to make this world a better place if it wasn't demanded from the pulpit?

Visit his children that were on the outside if he knew he wouldn't get "caught"?

What do you think?
I think almost every FLDS is living a lie and they don't even know it.


pedro said...

living a lie! dont you think you are going to warsh? well maybe a little lie... but chocolate is good dou...

Anonymous said...

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I think most FLDS are living a lie, but I think that deep down in their hearts they know it.

They know that there are serious problems in the current teachings of the FLDS leadership. They know that Colorado City today is just a shadow of what it used to be. They know that for the town to be healthy, they should be going to church on Sundays, and going to schools Mondays through Thursdays, and going to dances on Friday nights. They know they should be building houses together on Saturdays. They know that tall fences are a symbol of something bad inside. They know that treating their children with kindness, even though the children might choose a different path, is what God expects of them. They know, deep down inside, that the UEP is being pulled apart because the leadership wouldn't defend it. They know that the world is still going on, that it didn't end in 2002 (or 2000 or 2004). They know that their children need to be prepared to interact with the outside society--for a long, long time.

But they don't know how to admit these things, and they don't know how to get back to a healthy view of life. They don't know how to admit that their leaders have let them down. How can they admit that, when they've been taught otherwise?

They know, deep down, that sooner or later they will have to begin to think for themselves and take responsibility for their own lives, but they don't know how to take that giant step.


Anonymous said...

If people will lie to themselves to deny that two prophets aren't immortal that proved to be immortal, they will continue to lie to themselves to try to make sense out of something. One person I know openly stated "why doesn't anything make sense!". You can't help a person that lies to themselves--sorry to be blunt, but it's lying to oneself to twist scripture until you find an "explanation that finally enlightened my understanding" for things that didn't happen, like Olypics that were held, or two prophets that aren't here in the flesh. I know one person who studied Uncle Roy's sermons for five hours on a trip to SLC (yes, the forbidden city) and finally stated "Why was I so dense? I finally see why Uncle Warren is doing right after all." At the time, I tried to find the explanation. I believe this person knew things were wrong, but it took him a five hour trip to convince himself things were right; at the time, I called it strengthening your testimony. Now, I call it lying to yourself. Only when I had the courage to admit to myself that I was lying to myself because of fear of apostacy and perdition and fear of rejection by friends did my eyes open up.

Unfortunately, there is a tendency to go into shock when you wake up, and the faithful misinterpet this as "we use all our energy to persecute them." After a while, though, one settles down and basically realizes all you can do is leave them alone.

Anonymous said...

I know for a fact that there are people that live there that are living that way even when nobody is looking. I know that there are people all over the world that live that way when nobody is looking.

I think for you to make that kind of judgement on them is only telling a little bit about yourself. Whenever you see something in someone else, you probably should look inside yourself, because the world is just a mirror for each one of us. What you see in others is largely a reflection of your own character.

And of course you are right, there are people there that would not be as "good" as they are unless they thought that they were going to get "lifted up". But who among us is without sin? But I have one question for all of us....How well would we fare if our lives were put under a microscope, like the FLSD have been?....Something to think about.

onthestreet said...

LERKER: Tithing and free-will offerings are just that, free will, not demanded from the pulpit.

Visiting those put on the outside of the city would be like Israelites visiting Miriam, the sister of Moses and Aaron, when she challenged the Prophet. The Lord required her to be exiled outside the city, which means left alone. How else could she ponder and repent and get close to God within herself?

It has always been the law of the Lord to graft into the natural tree broken but worthy branches.

Yes, it is the mark of a man, but only an evil man, to reject this way, which is God's Way, for he says: "I am the Way. Then you are only a lerker, and truly living a lie.

Anonymous said...


fttc said...

Anon 5:18

You are too right. Most of these people have been willing to abandon the principles of the Gospel in order to be perceived as being 'one with the prophet'. It is all about appearances. Their religion is no deeper than the clothes they wear and the fences they build. They have had to find a compromise between the real world around them and trying to look like they have nothing to do with it. A paradox? Of course it is and that is why so many of the youth are fed up with it.

Only a return to the principles that made us a great people will preserve as such. It is a giant leap that is getting broader by the day. There are very few who have clung to those principles and they were some of the first to be cast out.

Warren is in custody now and I had hopes that it would change things for the better. It is easy to forget that warren rose to power because the people chose to have it so. It was what the people as a majority wanted. How do you get a community to return to the principles that bonded them together after they have rejected them? If warren is removed from the picture the people will create another to take his place. It is only the people involved that can put an end to this. warren needed to be caught and face the charges that have been made. He needs to pay for the crimes he has committed. But this will not end the FLDS.

furnace said...

If I attack one religion and say they are lying to themselves, where does it end? Muggsey often attacks Joseph Smith rather viciously. Does he really want the Aimoo crowd over here and attacking the Bible? Do we want the Aimoo athiests telling us we are lying to ourselves to accept Jesus? Do we want people telling us to not discipline our children because they are genetically determined to do wrong and cramming Determinism, homosexuality, and psychology down our throats? I have decided that if I attack Warren and the FLDS, I will be attacked by scientific studies, athiests, homosexuals, phychologists, and Determinism nonsense.

PS. Determinism is a philosophy that what we do is a result of what has happened to us, our genetics, etc., and we inevitably act out our lives--we really have no control of our lives.

the_lerker said...


I gained more satisfaction from giving the cancer research institute $100 than i ever did paying tithing and donating thousands.

The difference? One went to a worthy cause that actually works to try and improve this world.

The purpose of this thread is to help people think about what they would do if they were standing on only their own two feet and had no guidance or outside pressure to do anything.

What would you do?

Someone is ALWAYS looking when you live an FLDS lifestyle. example:(did you hear who left the other day? OMG, that is so sad.)

Very true. People outside live right because inside they are good people.

Of course this does not go for everyone but my question to you is "What are you doing to make this life and this world a better place?" You're so concerned about making it in the next life that you ignore every other faucet of a good life here.

Seems a little selfish to me.

onthestreet said...

I'm afraid that you have both missed the boat. They blamed Christ Himself for not giving the money lavished on Him to the poor, and what was His reply to the poor?

Says He: "The poor you have always". That is, I am not about to try and convert the devil's poor or poor devils. They will be so, always.

You may have "more satisfaction" giving to them who abused their lives like the devil, until they became cancerous, what you call "a worthy cause", and that's your problem. Jesus says that he's going to leave them in God's hands, for what we sow we must reap. God bless them all in learning to sow better, that they may reap better things, but saints will never pay the devil's price for the devil's work, where the daily news is now rife with the fraud of charities and agencies that claim to administer to the sick.

Because you have no satisfaction in being a believer, even in God's church where both the wheat and the tares were gathered until the harvest came, then you have joined the tares.

If you stand only on your own two feet, and not on a foundation created without hands, you fall. Someone was always eying you in the FLDS Church for obvious reasons.

If you want to see what the saints are doing to improve this world, just look at their peaceful little town where the crime rate is zero, while the world tears itself apart.

Fredonia Friend said...

Street said:
If you want to see what the saints are doing to improve this world, just look at their peaceful little town where the crime rate is zero, while the world tears itself apart.

My response:
I think you mean "where the reported crime rate is zero." That's the problem, you see. Crimes do occur in the community, but the victims and witnesses don't report them, and possibly do not even know that some of the incidents are crimes.

Anonymous said...

if you want to see what regular people are doing to improve this world, just look at the world while your little town tears itself apart.

muggsey said...

"They" didn't blame Jesus. Judas Iscariot, who was a thief and the individual who betrayed Jesus to the Priests for thirty pieces of silver, is the individual who remarked about the price of the oil with which Jesus' feet were anointed.

The following is a direct quote from John's Gospel, Chapter 12

v. 2 There they made him a supper; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of them that sat at the table with him. {this is the same Lazarus whom Jesus had raised from the dead in the previous chapter. John Chapter 11:34-45}

v3. Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment.

v.4 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him,

v. 5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence and given to the poor?

v. 6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.

v. 7 Then said Jesus, Let her alone: against the day of my burying hath she kept this.

v. 8 For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always.

King James Version, Holy Bible

2nd. anointing

Mark 14

v. 3 And being in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at meat, there came a woman having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious; and she brake the box, and poured it on his head.

v. 4 And there were some that had indignation within themselves, and said, why was this waste of ointment made?

v. 5 For it might have been sold for more than three hundred pence, and have given to the poor. and they murmured aginst her.

v. 6 And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her? she hath wrought a good work on me.

v. 7 For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.

v. 8 She hath done what she could; she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying.

v. 9 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.

v. 10 And Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve, went unto the chief priests, to betray him unto them.

Street: Read the WORD for a change before you sick your foot back into your mouth.

Anonymous said...

Furnace why did Joseph Smith feel oblige to change the Book of Morman with revelations that contradict the BOM.

The Book of Mormon was written under the direct guidance of "God" through Smith right?

To me the BOM should be perfect. No need to change it, correct.

Anonymous said...

If God wanted one Church, he would'nt have put sooooo many personality on earth.

What may be good for one person, may not for another. All churchs have good. Any church that helps you get closer to God is good for you. Any church that says it is the one and the other directions.

furnace said...

Whether Joseph is true or false, the point I was making is that what goes around comes around, and if we start attacking Joseph, we will get an atheist crowd attacking us.

I would like to see how long Muggsey lasts at the aimoo blog.

feralfem said...

The reality is, we are ALL atheists. Every one of us will say we don't believe in someone else's God. It's just that some atheists try to cram their beliefs down our (we other atheist's) throats more than others do! Muggsey is just one of the atheists who does that. OTS is another one. I'm dismissive of both.

"When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." ~~Stephen Roberts

Something to think about.

muggsey said...


What you fail to understand is this: I really don't care what you think of my GOD. I won't be your judge, HE will. Therefore I am relieved of the responsability to pursuade you, or anyone else that my GOD is GOD and yours is an idol. I can live with my belief, and have done so for practically all my life, from the age of acountability onward. Age of accountability? Different for each individual. Mine came just before my tenth birthday. It means that I became able to discern the difference between my evil nature and GOD'S perfect plan of salvation. My faith, receiving GOD'S Grace, became capable of producing acceptable works, from me, to honor GOD and reflect HIS DIVINE LOVE in my life.

Anonymous said...

feralfem (or atar_i)

How do you put bold and italics in your posts?

Anonymous said...

onthestreet said...
LERKER: Tithing and free-will offerings are just that, free will, not demanded from the pulpit.

So how long HAS it been since you were there? Because I can tell you that what you said here is Bullcrap!!!

Tithing and offerings are "heavily suggested" and the amount specified from the pulpit (or whatever forum they are now dictating from). And if the "suggestions" aren't met by the various people, they are kicked out.

What kind of free will offering do you call that, street-crap?

ATAR_i said...

First - Muggsy - how are you doing on the aimoo blog?

Second - you use something called a 'tag'. There is an open tag and a close tag.

You place the bold tag where you want to start the bold, and place the close bold tag where you want the bold to end (same with italics).

The tags are right next to the 'm' on your keyboard.

It will look like this

For italics use the letter 'I' instead of the 'B'. You can also use both of them to have 'bold italicized text'.

I hope that helps.

onthestreet said...


FOREVER! Par-Ever. Por in Hebrew is Pow (er), Inseparable, face to face, Ephah, measure of grain, the How, Where, When, What, and Why in all things, to send up, as Christ ascended into heaven.

PAR: Gleam, embellish, glorify, to shake the Tree, dividing, the goodly, fruitful.

EVER: Ehiy, Eloi, Ehyeh, the Promise: “I will be” (like the Father), Ever or Ye-ver(ily), to accomplish, unite, shine, be done: “It is finished”. The Greek is Aion: Aeon, Aheeohn (Ah, He Owns), Perpetuity, Heir, Eternal Increase, a Messianic Period (aeon), without beginning or end. Epimeno: To preserve, even though they killed Him.

EVER: Yowm: Day, warm hours, hot, as in eternal burnings, wholeness, full life, birth, age, to outlive, perpetual.
The Greek is Makros (Macro): Long, the white raiment or garment, full-flowing from the crown of the head to the soles of the feet, as an eagle or feather in your hat, “and call it Makroni”, flowing from the heavens, the full armour of Christ. That is far better than just a g-string, like a feather up your butt. I, for one, would rather have that feather in my hat, a crown with full-length garments, the full armour of Christ.

If I am a bit blunt or burlesque, bland for yaal’s taste, brush your teeth. You will forgive me, you being squashy-Christian (or is it quasi)? My father, Uncle Rulon, is well-known for his honesty and bluntness, so some of it has worn of onto me. The Prophet Warren is my great brother.

Yankie Doodle Dandy: Yang is the male creative force, Christ, who doodled the talisman or judgement in the sand (Jn. 8:6), and He is the most dandy of all. “Dan” in Hebrew is “Judge”, pronounced “Dawn”. When He went to the town of Jerusalem, riding on His pony, this is what He was doing, going for the long-haul, full-flowing, the makros, the crown. He is the Holy Macro, or Grail, or at least represents the crown of the Father, as His Heir.

The crown pertains to the hair, the thousand-pedelled lotus, or ten-thousand times ten thousand spirits, or spiritual shafts of hair or souls in His crown, moving as by a hair. The hair or heir is the highest and most spiritual part of the external body, the church.

Speaking of being clean as a Yankie whistle (white raiment), I was preparing my meal today. I thought: “Well, wash your hands”. Then my brain did a double-take, and said: “Jesus didn’t. Why should I?”. So there is cleanliness for all of you dirt-bound Christians.

feralfem said...

Anon 1:24 here is an example of bold and italics:


There are little reminders just under the "Leave your comment." Just don't forget the slash / inside the closing tag. i.e., </b>

Here's how to create a link:

<a href="">This is a link to a SL Trib story</a>

This is how the above "code" will look to others when published:

This is a link to a SL Trib story

In geek-speak, the above is called "HTML markup." The link in Atar's post is a good place to learn about HTML markup. However, very few tags are allowed on this blog.

Good luck!

ATAR_i said...

OK - that was a way better explanation than mine!

Anonymous said...

Street said:
"...If I am a bit blunt or burlesque, bland for yaal’s taste, brush your teeth. You will forgive me, you being squashy-Christian (or is it quasi)? My father, Uncle Rulon, is well-known for his honesty and bluntness, so some of it has worn of onto me. The Prophet Warren is my great brother. "


Anonymous said...

HTML = HyperText Markup Language

Anonymous said...

Street, that was the best ramble in quite some time. I think you "soiled" yourself.

feralfem said...

6:57, Right you are!

feralfem said...

6:57, Right you are!

muggsey said...


I haven't been on aimoo, ever. What is aimoo? What would profit from my posting there or even reading the posts?

Do you think that my un-swerving stand regarding faith based worship of THE LIVING GOD, rewarded by HIS perfect Love (GRACE), which produces GOD honoring activity as the result of my trust in HIM, would have any impact upon those who visit aimoo?

I really do not care about muggsey bashing. When I was a child and would occasionally be abused I learned that well known quote, "Sticks and stones may break by bones, but names will never hurt me." I have pretty well allowed that idea to be applied to any negative nonsense that may come my way, especially as retlated to anything that I may pen on this blog, or anything else.

Now, if I could just get OTS to admit that he is not a father, never has been, and never will be.

I think our Hebrew contributor, on another thread, pretty well set the record straight concerning Streetie's mis-use of "fluids of life" and the bar-bat mitzvah issue. OTS has great desire to be known as a great scholar. He's proving an empty shell.

ATAR_i said...

Someone thought you were over there - must be someone over there that reminds them of you. I looked and didn't see your nickname.

And no, I doubt it would have any effect - I rather like it over here myself and won't post over there either.

I hope you didn't think I was bashing you for asking that question.

muggsey said...

Not at all. I try to not jump to conclusions. I'm not always successful, but give it a try anyway. Some of the time my posts have spelling that reflects rural Texas phonetics. I have difficulty remembering the rules concerning the use of i and e and the use of double or single letters: example 'always' I usually have to go to my spelling dictionary simply because somehow the spelling was not implanted in my feeble little brain when I was in school, two hundred years ago.

ATAR_i said...

I'm a hideous speller too!

onthestreet said...

MUKKY Said: my feeble little brain when I was in school
10/31/2006 1:08 PM

I think our Hebrew contributor, on another thread, pretty well set the record straight concerning Streetie's mis-use of "fluids of life" and the bar-bat mitzvah issue. OTS has great desire to be known as a great scholar. He's proving an empty shell.
10/31/2006 10:09 AM

STREET's Reply: Now, come on, which is it, YOUR "feeble little brain, or MY empty shell?

Onkey-donkey, let me fill your little shell some more, my little munchkin, that being a kin who munches or devours himself with others, thus producing the diminuative soul:

I asked the Lord for my Jewish friends, what is the age of the BAT MITZVAH: The gematric measure is 6680: 6+6=12, and 8 is the perfect number, being the maturation of 8 planes, from the souls of the feet to the crown of the head, producing the perfect age of adult accountability, which is eight (D&C: 66:25). This is when the elect children are rightfully baptised and become accountable before God, being the perfect number of developments after the seven days or years of creation (M-K).

Twelve is the age of the full quarum or majority, the age of majority, with God's elect.
"Majority" has eight letters or paths of light. Light, Lady, Law, and Love, all begin with the twelvth letter, and Mother or Matriarchy with the 13th. So, the law of the lady in love with the light of the lad is TWELVE, the age of twelve, among God's elect.

"Majority" or Meysharity means
"Evenness, agreement, sweet, upright. Twelve is even, thirteen is not. Furthermore, for many the number 13 is unlucky, is it not. So you, my Jewish friends, would advocate only the reading of the Toral, the law, at 13, after the foundation of the mind and character are already formed, and not the practice or the motherhood, the upright agreement or vows of purity, the marriage covenant, which must be instilled in the child from childhood, if it is to have any foundation at all.

You advocate, like all the world does in their very laws, only the rights of "conscenting adults", like common whores, most Jews being still separated or dispersed from their God, and in agreement with the legal perversions of the nations they have accepted as their own. This is worldly, not godly. You see, this is the very crux of the problem that God has had with Israel throughout the ages, from the beginning until now.

The Torah is the law, is it not? Tor or Ter, as in Terrestrial, is only the schoolmaster or the law, vs the spirit of the law, which is Celestial. God gave Israel a schoolmaster because of their very rebellion against Him, and that is what you've got to this day, and a corrupted form of it at that.

The gematric number for "Law" is 611, which makes 8 (6+1+1). The law is accountability, or the ability to count, as between the sheep and the goats, the good and the evil, the five books of the central trunk of the tree or stick of Judah representing five sefirot or chambers of light: Malkhut, Yesod, Tiferet, Daat, and Keter, this being the "Cedar". That is the main vine, with the three mothers interspersed, making eight. With the branches or the two opposing columns that hold up the heavens, including the two that are hidden between the Kingdom and Mount Zion, see?

Torah, the law, TWELVE: "Law" in Hebrew is "Ecuwr", with the gematric measure of 6-12, which means "BOND OR BAND OF MARRIAGE". It is pronounced "Ay-soor": Eye-soar or Eye-sore. The light of the single-eye is knowledge or revelation to soar above the din of the dark world, and become as the gods to know good and evil.

The Father is the good, and the mother (mother earth, mother church) the evil, for "there is none good but the Father", saith the Lord. Thus, Law, the measure of 6-12 or 612, is a spiritual union or spiritual relaton of one flesh, not two. It is not male and female with saints, but one pure spirit and one God directing the union. Then a plurality. Thus: 6-1-2, if you understand gematrics.

It is for the elect of God to know at that age, for the couple to "Know", for him to know his wife, and her to know a man, her husband, in a spiritual or divine manner, not the wickedness or "strange gods" (women) that have been sought after by the Jews, with the whole world, in their diasporah exile or mixing of the clay with the world, making it weak and to fly to pieces when the potter tries to fashion it.

See? It is the divine nature vs the animal nature in you, God vs dog, angel vs beast, master vs servant.

There is much more, but for your sakes (or mine), we can go to intermission. Just be careful what JUNK you stuff in your face.

onthestreet said...

As a point of clarification: 612: "Sex" with one and two, or "sex" at twelve, but NOT your worldly pedophilia. With the saints, it is a spiritual union or purificaton, not bodily assault or defilement. The body remains covered and unassailed. The Lord has always insisted through His FLDS Prophet that the boys and girls "Learn and keep the sanctity of your morals". This requirement is in their published sermons for all to read.

I will finish this little discourse after you finish with your intermission snacky, and maybe lay down for a nappy.

Anonymous said...

I've had troubles with my computer and could only get on here just now. I hope that you see this.

I appreciate you starting this thread. And hope that you continue to share.


ATAR_i said...

Hey - you got on Walton!


onthestreet said...

So, how's John Boy these days?

muggsey said...


With the supposed holey profit's t.v. ban, how do you know anything about John Boy? How do hou have access to a computer?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, same old, same old attempt to impress someone with your psuedohebrew, math, lexicon of phrasology pursuant to a roundhouse of nonsense.

Do you have children? I, and many others are still waiting. . . . . .