Monday, March 20, 2006

A Matter of Honor

Seth said he would love to go to jail for WJ. Think of the "honor". Rod Holm was honored because of his trial. Uncle Fred was "honored."
Think how these men feel that are being put on trial.

Honor: (fron Wikipedia) comprises the reputation, self-perception or moral identity of an individual or of a group.

The FLDS has a culture of honor. Can you guess what it is?

33 comments:

Anonymous said...

Cultures of honour and cultures of law
One can contrast cultures of honour with cultures of law. In a culture of law there is a body of laws which must be obeyed by all, with punishments for transgressors. This requires a more advanced society, with the structures required to enact and enforce laws. A culture of law incorporates an unwritten social contract: members of society agree to give up most of their rights to defend themselves and retaliate for injuries, on the understanding that transgressors will be apprehended and punished by society.

From the viewpoint of anthropology, cultures of honour typically appear among nomadic peoples and herdsmen who carry their most valuable property with them and risk having it stolen, without having recourse to law enforcement or government. In this situation, inspiring fear forms a better strategy than promoting friendship; and cultivating a reputation for swift and disproportionate revenge increases the safety of one's person and property. Thinkers ranging from Montesquieu to Steven Pinker have remarked upon the mindset needed for a culture of honour.

Cultures of honour therefore appear amongst Bedouins, Scottish and English herdsmen of the Border country, and many similar peoples, who have little allegiance to a national government; among cowboys, frontiersmen, and ranchers of the American West, where official law-enforcement often remained out of reach, as is famously celebrated in Westerns; among the plantation culture of the American South, and among aristocrats, who enjoy hereditary privileges that put them beyond the reach of codes of law. Cultures of honour also flourish in criminal underworlds and gangs, whose members carry large amounts of cash and contraband and cannot complain to the law if it is stolen.

Once a culture of honour exists, it is difficult for its members to make the transition to a culture of law; this requires that people become willing to back down and refuse to immediately retaliate, and from the viewpoint of the culture of honour, this tends to appear to be an unwise act reflecting weakness.

onthestreet said...

Well, just look at the word: Hon-our: Hone our... To hone what is ours, or perfect our own selves.

There are at least a half-dozen Hebrew words that relate to honor:

To be heavy, be weighty, be grievous, be hard, be rich, be honourable, be glorious, be burdensome, be honoured.

To develop any weighty or important matter, to the point of it seeming hard and grievous, but leading to true and eternal glory and wealth.

This is what comes from the Hebrew language.

onthestreet said...

Hone our... To hone what is ours, or perfect our own selves.

Compare this to what Rumor shared from the Wikepedia: "Honor: (fron Wikipedia) comprises the
reputation, self-perception or moral identity of an individual or of a group.

Quite similar, aren't they. Thanks Rumor.

Anonymous said...

Here's what an Arizona newspaper has to say about Warren Jeffs, honor and Big Love TV show. From article: "Polygamy here has a godfather, a fugitive named Warren Jeffs and his cohorts, who hide their crime, their fraud, their cruelty and dishonor."

The last word sums it up as to HONOR, as relates to Warren Jeffs, IMO.

Read rest of article: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/articles/0320mon2-20.html

Cut and paste above to browser.

onthestreet said...

Are your newspapers your scriptures, the final word? You just as well put "Thus saith the Lord" on the cover of every Tabloid.

ooooOOOOOOhhhhh, look what the newspaper said!!!!

Real intelligent, my friends.

Anonymous said...

Who the hell asked Street for a Hebrew lesson?

Anonymous said...

If a newspaper said "Thus saith the Lord", it would be more accurate than Warren's conjured up "revelations"

Anonymous said...

ots

This is from the American Lanugage:

Give it up, it's a lost cause, your sweetie can't even show his face in public lest he be arrested. What an Hon or or (something)
Now go crawl back in your hidy- hole. Don't forget to pull the dirt back in on top of your head, but be sure to slime up before entering. I'd hate to hear that a part of you was left outside, in public view, unable to slither all the way in!

rcn

onthestreet said...

STREET's Reply: 03/18/2006 10:46 PM:

This just in, hot off the press:

Okay, nobody has proof that Mormonism or the Gold Plates are wrong. That is good. Now, I will proceed to offer proof that the Book of Mormon and the FLDS people are RIGHT:

To begin with, THE PROOF of the Gold Plates is in the faith and trust of honest men, from Joseph Smith and all who preached and published that testimony, on down to our own time. It is like your very own existence. You have faith and trust that your parents were honest in presenting themselves to you as their parents. So, that's for starters.

See, our very existence as a church is ANOTHER PROOF, besides our faith and trust in honest men and women. Let us test the credibility of your reasoning in demanding physical proof. Just give us all absolute proof that your father sired you. It must be actual proof, and not just the fact that you exist. Show us carbon-dated and dna samples of the sperm that brought you forth, or at least photographs of the mating, clearly showing the faces of your father and mother during that ultimate moment of their orgy. Otherwise, you saying that you exist is a lie, because you have no proof that your existence is real and legitimate, except for your existence. Anything else is a forgery to make yourself look genuine, as a real person.You're just blowing smoke. You do not exist, and why? Because you can't prove it. If there is no physical proof besides the creature itself, it must be a lie, according to that reasoning. See, your very existence proves that you were sired, and so does ours as a church, and our Book Of Mormon as a scripture, sired from the Gold Plates.

Now, all churches claim that they are the true church, but who has THE PROOF of being a true church? Jesus Christ does, all would agree, and he gave the answer for the proof: "Ye shall know them by their fruits" (Mt. 7:16). So let's have enough descency to not crucify Him anew, and enough faith to know that He didn't lie, for that is THE PROOF: "Ye shall know them by their fruits". Now, what are the fruits? There are fruits of the body, mind, soul, and spirit. Only one church has all those, and we can innumerate them.

The fruits of the body or loins are children. All would agree that the FLDS Church fulfills that REQUIREMENT OF PROOF, supremely. That is one thing that the world has been up in arms over, our bringing forth so many souls, so many children, "for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven".

The fruits of the mind are discipline and learning. All would agree that the FLDS Church practices strict discipline, to the point of casting out all of its members who are not disciplined according to the requirements of the Lord and His word. That is another thing that the world has been up in arms over, the 400 "Lost Boys", and so on. So this fulfills another REQUIREMENT OF PROOF, supremely.

The fruits of the soul are truth and beauty. All can see, by perusing my comparisons of scripture with FLDS doctrine and practice in earlier posts on this forum, that the FLDS doctrines and practices match the very letter and spirit of God's Word. Thousands have also confessed to the beauty of our people, which is quite humbling since I was so ugly myself, kind of like an ugly duckling. So this fulfills another REQUIREMENT OF PROOF, supremely.

The fruits of the spirit are Wisdom, Knowledge, Understanding, Faith, Healing, Miracles, Prophecies, Discernment of Spirits, Tongues, and Interpretation of Tongues (I Cor. 12:8). Which church has displayed these more than the FLDS Church, in the wisdom, knowledge, understanding, and faith to build a city in a day, in the face of world scrutiny, indictments, divisions, government raids, and all odds. It's a miracle, which itself is one of the fruits of the spirit, as is life itself a miracle which they bring forth most abundantly. So this fulfills another REQUIREMENT OF PROOF, supremely.

As for the other fruits of the spirit (healing, prophecies, discernment, tongues, and interpretation of tongues): Under the thread "Warren Heals", I showed how he indeed does heal in body, mind, and soul. I will not innumerate them here, but go there if you honestly want to know and see for yourself. As for prophecies, I showed under the other threads "Righteous Man Jeffs" and "Immaculate Conception" that all of his prophecies do indeed come to pass. Name just one that doesn't, and we can prove it here and now. Furthermore, it is obvious to the honest in heart that he discerns every soul's spirit and character, to the point that every one of them were cast off or moved up to higher ground, that souls might repent from far or near, and be saved. As for tongues and interpretation of tongues, plenty has been shown you in the Hebrew and Greek tongues, and their interpretation, has it not? So this fulfills another REQUIREMENT OF PROOF, supremely.

These are the fruits of the spirit, and "Ye shall know them by their fruits", saith your Redeemer (Mt. 7:16). Now, there is another proof: "Now I show you a more excellent way" (I Corinthians 12:31). For brevity sake, I will continue this in another post.

Now this being said, I have no desire that any of you should adopt our doctrine or be converted, if your desires are elsewhere, but only defend what is challenged. I have enough on my hands repenting and converting myself.

onthestreet said...

SOMEONE ASKED WHY WJ HIDES:

SO WHY DOES HE HIDE?

Why does the prophet hide up, like the Lord did, and like God Himself HIDES himself from the people? First of all, maybe he is not hiding at all. It may well be that he is just carrying on God's Work with the saints at the YFZ, just living and letting others live, loving his neighbor as himself. But what if he did hide, what of that? Look at what both the Father and the Son say about hiding:

It is precisely because he keeps the law, thereby saving the wicked from themselves, until the time of the end comes. Also, to fulfill God's very Word, To Wit:

"For they have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against THY HIDDEN ONES. They have said, Come, let us cut them off from being a nation (or a church), that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance (Psalm 53:3) This is just as the Egyptians did after Joseph died. The FLDS people are descended from Ephraim and Manassah, Joseph's two sons, through European migration and Native America.

"When righteous men do rejoice, there is great glory, but when the wicked rise a man IS HIDDEN (Prov. 28:12).

"Let the wives' adorning be THE HIDDEN MAN of the heart" (I Peter 3:4).

"Then I shall HIDE MY FACE from them, and they shall be devoured" (Deut. 31:17).

So, is it a crime to hide from a lawless people? Is your God a criminal?

"I will HIDE MY FACE from them. I will see what their end shall be, for they are a very forward generation, children in whom is no faith. Mine anger shall consume THE EARTH, with all her increase. The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy them (Deut. 32:22).

Note: He doesn't refer to a church here, but an entire generation of the world, and a faithless one at that. But the world sees the faith of the FLDS, and laughs. So He "will see what their end shall be". Will any escape? Will the elect lose anything? "Mine elect shall barely escape".

"David, my father seeketh to kill thee...abide in a secret place, and HIDE THYSELF" (I Sam. 19:2).

Saul was King, the law of the land: "Hide thyself from the law of the land, the lawless", is what the Lord was requiring him to do, through Jonathan.

Elijah to King Ahab: "There shall not be dew or rain these years, but according to my word. And the word of the Lord came to me saying: HIDE THYSELF (I Kings 17:1-3). Ahab was King, the law of the land, and here God commands him to hide from the law (or the lawless), for it had perverted itself. SEE! It's right there in your own Christian Bible.

Now, does any of this justify a criminal in hiding from the law? Of course not. It only justifies those who keep the law of God, to hide up against its abusers and trust in the Lord, as all prophets have done. And the law of God is in the very law of the land regarding the marriage of young girls, which is all that the Prophet is charged with. I showed how age 12 is God's law, AND the law of the land.

Look under the "FBI Subpoena Thread, under the following dates: March 2: 11:44 pm, March 4: 9:22 pm, March 5: 4:49 am, March 9: 6:25 am, 7:07 am, 8:23 am, 9:08 am. That way, I don't have to take up all the space that those posts would cover if I posted them. I will only post them here is I'm asked to.

What crimes do you all commit DAILY when YOU HIDE YOURSELVES in your houses, in the blackness of night? It is the very purpose of a house to shelter and to hide or cover one's self, is it not. So your incompetency and deception in your very God and also your Redeemer Jesus Christ, and his Prophet, of hiding, only flushes you down your own toilet, where your filth and blasphemy dwell continually, for He says: "I will HIDE MY FACE from them. I will see what their end shall be, for they are a very forward generation, children in whom is no faith. Mine anger shall consume THE EARTH, with all her increase. The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy them (Deut. 32:22).

"Thus saith the Lord of Hosts (sounds like the many Armies of Heaven): Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation (that is NOW HAPPENING), and the slain of the Lord shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end...They shall be dung upon the ground (Jer. 25:32-33).

There is more, much more, ten times more, regarding God and His prophets HIDING THEIR FACE from the wicked and their administrators, even while they bring their final judgement, if you can stomach it. Otherwise, you must wallow continually in your own vomit and your own dung, just as the Lord says: "Eat not the bread (or law) of him that hath an evil eye...for he shall vomit it up (Prov. 23:6). For he magnifies himself against the Lord and shall wallow in his vomit (Jer. 48:26).

I count all loss but dung (Phil. 3:8).

bc said...

I'd say that OTS knows alot about SEX. Every time he talks, it spews forth.

Anonymous said...

OTS

SSSSSSHHHHHHHHH

Anonymous said...

What OTS said:
onthestreet said...
Are your newspapers your scriptures, the final word? You just as well put "Thus saith the Lord" on the cover of every Tabloid.

ooooOOOOOOhhhhh, look what the newspaper said!!!!

Real intelligent, my friends.

What real intelligent Texans had to say, from University of Texas @Austin student newspaper:

Both the Taliban and the FLDS hung out in remote, mountainous areas far from mainstream civilization. Both the Taliban and the FLDS preached doctrines that promised heavenly rewards in return for blind obedience here on earth, and both the Taliban and the FLDS are currently broken organizations, running for cover - the Taliban in the mountains of Pakistan and Afghanistan, and the FLDS in remote compounds secreted throughout the United States, including one location here in Texas.
http://www.dailytexanonline.com/media/paper410/news/2006/03/22/Opinion/Lesson.From.Polygamy.Tv-1712090.shtml?norewrite200603220760&sourcedomain=www.dailytexanonline.com

CUT & PASTE ABOVE TO BROWSER


PS: Note that Aggies are also intelligent Texans. ;)

Anonymous said...

Intelligent Texans?

Of course!

I hear they even have a class on Shakespeare now at the University of Texas.


......It is a fishing class.

Anonymous said...

I attended a pretty good production of "Hamlet" at the University of Texas in 1954.

Texans want the rest of the world to think they have no culture. That notion keeps us from being compared to Holywood, California and New York's Broadway. Of course Massachusetts, especially Cambridge, is only one step below Paris as far as the advancement of culture is concerned. If it comes out of the back side of a horse and makes a pile on the street it doesn't take a genius to figure the identity of the end product. Equality in all things. Culture = Horse Manure, same product, different package. Same mentality. Example: New Englanders raised a ruckus when popular opinion expressed the need of censuring a judge who routinely handed down minimal penalties, light probation, or suspended sentences to criminals CONVICTED of raping children and other sexual abuses. Maybe he's from one of WJ's outposts. Hmm....

onthestreet said...

NONNY Said (3/22/2006 7:29 AM):
Both the Taliban and the FLDS hung out in remote, mountainous areas far from mainstream civilization. Both the Taliban and the FLDS… PS: Note that Aggies are also intelligent Texans. ;)

STREET’s Reply: Certain modern Christian inquisitions have violated innocent people. Both the ancient apostles and the FLDS hide up in the Lord the best they can. As for the Taliban, I couldn’t say. I don’t know them personally, and if you like Shakespear, ya that can be pretty bloody stuff to be enjoying. But consider:

Taliban release of 8 Innocence(by exampleRead the news below; then tell yourself how you sanction the bombing of what is now proof of the former Government of Afghanistan "Taliban" Innocence
www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/ forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/406

HaloScan.com - Comments... to link the Taliban to 911 was a testimony to the Taliban innocence...again the American invaded Afghanistan to protect their oil interest..,
www.haloscan.com/comments/ilham/110429110128086592

The latter link above may not work. I couldn’t get it open. But you know, considering the nature of politics, and the word of the Lord Himself of these last days, you need to look deeper than the front pages of newpapers or the tabloid rags.

Rev. 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Anonymous said...

What intelligent Texans have to say about Warren Jeffs! :)

Randy Mankin speaking, "Yearning for Zion Ranch, Mankin says construction continues unabated. An estimated 60,000-square-foot temple – the first ever built by the FLDS – has been completed, additional residential buildings are going up, and the sect has put up a 280,000-gallon water storage tank (enough to sustain a population of 2,800 people, Mankin says)."

Read rest of article: http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2006-03-24/pols_feature7.html

Cut & paste above to browser.

The Texas Aggies say to Warren Jeffs, "Gig 'Em!"

The Texas Longhorns say to Warren Jeffs, "Hook um Horns!"

Anonymous said...

Do yo know how to get the University of Texas graduate off your front porch?

Yuo pay him for the pizza!

Anonymous said...

Well, not being a graduate of either school I can't testify to general intelligence of graduates from either school, but I do believe that for the most part they know how to spell the bard's name: ShakespearE, the capial E is intentional and not a typo. On second thought I think i know where he left his "e" at the end of the legume potato(e)

Are we having fun or what?

rcn

onthestreet said...

Anonymous said..Do yo know how to get the University of Texas
graduate off your front porch?
Yuo pay him for the pizza!
3/23/2006 1:28 PM

STREET's Reply: LOL: Righto, fido, and also be sure to give him a baggie to pick up his dribblings on his way out to the car, for having eaten half your pizza before he got there. Yah, that pretty describes the value of American education. So well put. Carry on fido.

onthestreet said...

TYPO, fido: "pretty WELL describes...

Anonymous said...

alley

if you are of French ancestry you could call the dog Phydeaux. You love to dish it out but just can't take it!

rcn

Anonymous said...

Seth would't mind going to jail for warren. He would save himself 5,000.00 only he would be the giver instead of the receiver.hlfem

onthestreet said...

RCN (3/25/2006 3:33 PM): Yah, I like that, "Phydeaux" (LOL). That's alot better than just calling you dogs "Spot", but that too is appropriate where some have soiled their marriage garments and are not found "without spot" (2 Peter 3):

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, WITHOUT SPOT, and blameless.

saar said...

If you have ever listened to the tape of Nathaniel, you can tell that he was being sarcastic. And the cop took him as not.

He prob wishes that he would have been a little more straight forward.

But that's OK! I think his little weaving episode has been the biggest break the feds could ask for.

mugwump said...

Mange, Inc.

Ribs show, howls because of lonliness, just waiting to step in front of a passing vehicle to end a miserable life. Enough Said.

Anonymous said...

It's not a culture of "honor". It's a culture of girl rape. Child rape.

Where is Ruby Jessop?

onthestreet said...

4/04/2006 8:13 PM

That's right. That's what the American Cult really is, a culture of girl rape, date-rare, incest, job-rape, school-rape, it is all over you.

But for a religious community that doesn't date them at all, and marries your girls honorably like God married Mary at age 12, and gives them children, and then supports them for a lifetime, and leaves them alone sexually so that they may conceive immaculately, that is the Law of God, and the law that the world fully blasts and violates.

Why did hundreds of girls leave their husbands for the Prophet. The first thing he always tells them at the marriage: "You leave that girl alone". I was there! I heard it many times. Those husbands violated that VOW OF PURITY with their WIVES.

Therefore, their marriage vows were broken, but the girls, being saints, refused to follow a dud to hell, and continued to follow the Prophet.

There's the difference, one of them, between the world and the YFZ Community and the world, the difference between light and darkness, truth and lies, purity and corruption.

The world loves to point to people who are well-covered and very strict in their morals, and mock them. The immorality and nakedness of the people of the world, and the way they mock the FLDS elect, and charge them as common criminals, is proof.

They did the very same with Christ, and spat upon him, tore his rament, charged him as a commmon criminal, tore his flesh until he was unrecognizable, and then hung him to a cross. Such is the world.

"And Satan shall deceive the WHOLE WORLD (Rev. 12:9).

onthestreet said...

typo: Marries "your" girls
should be YOUNG girls.

Anonymous said...

And had they not violated that vow of purity, artificial insemination would be the ONLY way you could increase your herd.

Are you up to having an electric prod assist with your ejaculation?
On second thought, maybe that's the way for a non lusting pervert to do his duty. Since you use your females as sows, heifers and mares that's the way it is supposed to be in FLDS. The profit said so. If that is the case, why are these women coming out filing charges of child molestation and rape against the men they are forced to marry and the profit who forces them to do so under penaty of hell fire and damnation. Some caring bunch! HA.

Street, you can side step but you can't escape. Your theory and practice are a disgrace to concerned people everywhere. And your worst fright is that women will learn that they don't have to put up with you or your prophet. He's a has been. You're a never was. Women are learning they don't have to take that bull any longer. They can nulify that unwanted marriage to that nasty old man. They need to do it before they become with child. Why should the child suffer too.

rcn

mugwump said...

It was announced on the NBC affiliate station in San Angelo last Friday on the 10:00 PM CDT News that Attorneys General of several of the states where the population of FLDS is under the iron grip of Warren Jeffs and his followers that: protection will be provided to any females (women and girls) who wish to escape the life they are being forced to live. The molestation and rape that they suffer at the hands of their leaders, fathers, brothers and 'forced upon them husbands' is not their fault and they do not have to live in the oppressive society at YFZ. Contact your local Sheriff's office.

Faithful Woman said...

Protection?

Sorry, but to most of "us", that sounds like jail.

No one wants to escape one form of oppression to go to another. If a woman wants to "escape", she is going to want freedom!

In our current society in this country, that means having money.

I still haven't seen any evidence of any of those who want to put on a good show by saying that 'they are willing to help the poor women of polygamy', do anything more than say a lot of things they think will get them elected or attention.

These women need imidiate support and home and they need a chance for education so they can be independant.

mugwump said...

I appreciate your concerns faithful. You have been lied to so often that it is hard to differentiate truth from falsehood.

From the posts I have previously made a review will show that I don't agree with mormon theology and especially with the male dominance of those claiming priesthood. I believe that the average FLDS female has much less to fear from a federal protection program than she does from an abusive prophet, husband or strong-armed boy from FLDS. She will be treated as a lady, not as chattel to be traded or bargained with. She will not be put in jail, but kept in a place of safety. If you would like more information why don't you call or write the nearest Federal Court and ask what freedoms you would experience while being protected under the government protection program.

Just a suggestion. I really care.