I'm sure most of us have had a lot to say about Warren Jeffs' life sentencing in Texas. I know I have. There is also the matter of his health. Raise your hand if you doubt he will live as long as his father (98).
What else is going on this fall? I miss Harvest Festival. I like the feeling of community and togetherness it brought to have the entire town (and people from SLC and Canada) join the festivities for three days.
Other than that, the fall makes me strangely melancholy. I don't know why? maybe because it is the end of summer?
Anyway, what are you people up to?
Thoughts anyone?
29 comments:
Just wondering, how are people reacting in the Crick? Have they began to be social, go to church again? Do they know why Warren is in prison?
Many people struggle with the onset of blues in the autumn. Some think it is the shorter daylight and the knowledge that it will be awhile before it changes "on the uptake" again- as you probably have heard, it is sometimes called "SAD," or Seasonal Affective Disorder, and it causes some people real tears every year.
The other thing I wanted to say, as fall rolls along into winter, and then the wonderful springtime returns (with its longer daylight, and the miracle of new life) --I sincerely hope that more and more people will experience a healthier emotional life out there in these polygamy areas of the US. (I do not live in any of them.) These people need to observe our laws and stop raising their kids to believe in breaking US laws, which causes much unnecessary isolationist thinking and behavior. I hope many more out there will discover what it means to have one's personal rights as an American-born citizen not constantly trampled upon, by self-serving enforcers and false "prophets" out there in the Colorado City/ Hildale area. At the same time, I hope that the precious freedom of religion that we are indeed granted much more of in the US than in many nations, will stop being twisted by these groups and used as a cover for unlawful, abusive, and damaging practices. There are plenty of things to do that are decent, healthy, helpful,and meaningful, be it individual activities, or normal American or other cultural, or ethnic, or general community celebrations, that people have been taught wrongly about out there, by many of the twisted polygamist lifestyle practices. The polygamist beliefs have kept many generations of Americans born into it, isolated in an unhealthy way, emotionally and psychologically in a sad and ridiculous way, from the rest of their native country and the world at large. Polygamy seems to be associated with wrongly assessing everyone outside of these groups as some sort of enemy, someone to be avoided. This is simply an outrageous thing to teach little children day after day. Polygamy should never be legalized for many reasons in our great nation- and people need to stop being raised in it, also. I am never comfortable when people say that what consenting adults do is fine and harmless. The many children born in polygamy are immediately made victims of something they shouldn't even be exposed to at all in the first place, because it is against important laws of our nation and all our states.
All decent people want their kids to have a bearable, reasonably happy, and of course, productive life, to be safe, etc. That can be accomplished without teaching them that everything and everyone is bad outside of their tiny town or group. I am very disturbed at the thought that any more generations be raised in tightly-controlled, closed polygamist societies that are operated like some sort of combative hiding game right here within the US. It isn't right what has gone on all these years, these women and young people being told they don't matter, to anyone or anything, unless they do everything they are told by some guy down the street who is equated with God. I hope these things die out more and more, and that CC/Hildale will become more of a law-abiding part of the US. I can't believe people who travel through the area are followed closely in vehicles and discouraged from felling at ease, right here in our nation, in the way I have heard described so many times, about how things go in CC/Hildale. There are religious sects that are strict in other parts of the US, such as the Amish, but they at least do not practice polygamy, both genders interact frequently with non-sect members, and they allow their young adults a time to do what they wish for a year, I believe, before they decide to formally join the group as adults in a more informed way.
This is an open message to Jerusha Jeffs and those who did help convict Warren Jeffs, when they know he is not guilty. I pity you in the reserection. I pity you.
Minor correction bbgae, Warren's father was 92 when he died.
Anon 9:21
Your pity is not only petty, but ignorant.
Jerusha testified during the sentencing phase of Jeffs' trial. Her testimony had nothing to do with his conviction.
Jeffs' conviction was based on his own words (recordings) and his own written records (his dictations).
Please help me understand this:
How do you know Warren Jeffs is not guilty?
I will tell you one way I know. I know he is not guilty. I can always tell a liar; Any one who says Warren JEffs is a child mollester is a liar. That I how I know she lied. And I pity her in the reserection and what she will have to live in her concience until the reserection.
flds faithful have obviously not been told what was found at yfz in Warren's "priesthood records." The powerful control he wants over people continues as usual. Lyle does what W orders, and always there is disinformation in order to keep control.
Authorities seized recordings W made of himself coaching ("training") several young girls at a time for "heavenly sessions" with him. The "prophet" was teaching them to have group sex with him, and to "assist each other." He also recorded such a session in the baptism pool at the ranch temple. You, who never stop defending W, would you deny his voice on these tapes? Even if it was plainly him you heard? His very well-documented style, choice of words? Going on and on and on, the way he always has, mentally conditioning followers in his special way on all tapes he has made through the years?
On the tapes seized, W tells the girls to shower, and shave various parts of themselves before coming to see him. He tells them "children will result" from the sessions with him. Newspapers were permitted to publish onlty short portions of these tapes. Much was not released to the general public by the court because of the upsetting content and the fact that minors were involved.
Obviously, W is no "prophet," he is a sex addict using his position of unlimited control over people at yfz. These girls had been conditioned by his many other tapes that he produced over the years. The total "prophet allegiance" he taught since his days as a school principal, when he made tapes teaching "everything belongs to the prophet."
These girls have been under great pressure for years to accept W as ultimate authority, including giving their bodies to him. Records show that some girls were sent away from yfz who showed reluctance to be involved with Warren like this. He told those who cooperated that they were going to heaven.
The tapes are lengthy enough to hear it is definitely Warren speaking. He tried repeatedly in court to speak while jurors were to listen to the tapes as needed evidence. There was no mistaking who was speaking, and what he was telling the young flds girls to do. Some jurors for this trial were in tears as they were required to listen to W giving his "trainings." No one who had to be involved in the trial, or who reported on it, has ever heard anything like what was found at yfz.
The numerous written records made by Naomi Jeffs, and a few others who were required to witness his sex acts with the young girls is all part of state's evidence.
Jerusha and Brent Jeffs both did not tell what happened to them for many years. That is typical of child sex abuse victims. Very young sex abuse victims often do not tell anyone until they are adults themselves, especially when the perpetrator was in authority in the social or religious situation that child was growing up in.
Yet another girl, who would now be 25, testified several years ago in UT or AZ,to authorities. This girl was sent to spend time with Warren in his office at Alta Academy when she was just 7 years old, and he was 37. She said she was required to spend time with him every week for several school years at the school. She realized she was being groomed to become one of his wives. I don't know at what point she realized it. She finally began not going to school as a result. At age 15 she got out of flds, with help from relatives that had left or never been in the group. She did not want to be marry W, and because she saw a sister forced to marry a much older man, and because of the crowded house in which her family lived. She also said when she was 12, her father married a girl who was 14. He and the 14 yr old would kiss in the living room in plain view of others in the house.
All these things are absolutely inexcusable. These men all need to be imprisoned. Warren is just one of many polygamist males in "fundamentalist" groups who deserve lengthy jail time.
If you can always tell a liar, then you are a poor judge of character. No wonder your life has been so miserable, welcoming evil and rejecting goodness. If Warren is innocent in your eyes, then your god is a snake.
It's really something to witness the depth of brainwashing in those still living the insanity of the extreme polygamist groups. Actually, the foolishness and dishonesty is apparent in the smaller groups and families also. These things are the result of the geographical isolation in Utah, which was used by early mormon leaders to create a stubborn subculture where people have been conditioned to accept and defend things understood to be wrong by most of the population of the US and the world. The immorality taught by Joseph Smith is a big reason early mormons were driven from the eastern US. Many marriages were destroyed by Smith's teachings. Communities were scandalized and enraged by Smith.
Wrong is taught as right within these small,tightly-controlled polygamist societies. What is recognized as immoral by most sane people in the world is preached as righteous and good with the Joseph Smith-worshipping crowd. Smith himself was habitually immoral, and this same immorality is duplicated in today's "fundamentalist" polygamist leaders. The mainstream lds leadership has gradually molded mormonism into something more and more closely resembling traditional evangelical New Testament Christian practice, at first glance. But the fundamentalist groups have continued to buy into Joseph Smith's immorality as if it were something good, something to strive for. The New Testament makes it crystal clear that Christ (and Paul) absolutely condemned the kind of things taught by the polygamists.
When I first learned that Joseph Smith taught that Jesus was a polygamist, I was so disgusted that I got plenty of fight back into my soul, to oppose polygamy in the US.
I am always fascinated to see how the fundamnetalists don't seem to realize at all that Joseph Smith didn't work hard to care for dozens of children. I have never seen any documentation at all that Smith wanted it known he had sired children with women other than Emma. He wanted his sexual escapades kept under wraps for years, and finally he made up "revelations" about "celestial marriage" so he could continue his many affairs. He also wanted to cause those around him to practice the same immorality, so he wouldn't be the only one doing those things. He didn't live a "wholesome" or "righteous" a life as they think he did, not on any level. Smith was having sex with several different females behind the back of his legal wife long before he decided that God "commanded" that men take multiple wives. (At first Smith had "revealed" that it was very wrong for a man to have more than one wife- I guess he had more respect for the Bible in his earlier adult years.)
Warren Jeffs has just practiced what Smith did, plus W used a facility he deliberately created over the past several years to further his personal breeding and control-oriented mini-universe. The flds people can't shake his evil because their lives are founded on lies and fear. Today's polygamists keep up the immorality which they have been taught is good, since they keep on buying this rotten bill of goods by cloaking it in their old-fashioned clothing styles, and overall supposedly tame and holy lifestyle. But it's actually just futile hypocrisy and hogwash. These outlaw groups thrive in the expanses of thinly populated western US states(and Canada) because they can, not because they should.
The thing is, Warren NEVER EVER denied molesting these childrens - his testimony on tape, in dictations, nor at his trial.
His defense was that he had a religious right to molest those children as he sees fit, in the Temple bed, or the Baptismal font, wherever and whenever.
So you might say he convicted himself.
He never denied any of it.
He would do it tomorrow if he was set free.
That wont happen though.
Yes, W would do all the same things as often as he could for the rest of his life, if "free" and still physically able. He would still be using people like game pieces just like always- the only thing limiting him now is that he has less phone time, and has gone downhill physically. I believe without a shadow of a doubt that he would have " married" girls younger and younger. He had been going in that direction for years. If he had not been stopped he most likely was headed for girls below the age of 12. The redhead in the infamous photos had been 12 for less than a month when he "married" her. And there's the evidence of at least one other 12 year old he "married." He had that sentence in his records that he felt the Lord was leading him to marry younger girls. I forget the exact wording. That's right, for sure, he never denied anything, and he obviously equated absolutely all of his actions with "religious freedom" that he kept saying should be defended, not punished. It is obvious he had been justifying all kinds of things for years, and he seems to be the prime victim of his own brainwashing. Yet, in his records he also had the statement, "If the world knew what I was doing, they would hang me from the highest tree.."
W is quite a case study in many ways. He shows such narcissism, hypocrisy, greed, cruelty to others, trampling on others, yet those poor truth-deprived followers still think he's got some kind of special righteousness. And he doesn't always get grammar correct, but he sure can go on for hours. He's pretty unique, I'll say that for the dude. He just about mastered the art of self-delusion, and manipulation of those in his tiny, tightly-controlled sect/cult universe. At least a lady like Barbara Walthers was in place for all this. I don't think the Lord made a mistake having her down there where flds set up shop in west Texas. We need more like her.
I say that any one who says Warren Jeffs is a child Mollester is guilty of gross crimes; crimes against the United States and God. Crimes against themselves and their fellow American's. Yes, America has betrayed what it stands for. And any one who says Warren Jeffs is a child mollester is a liar and the truth is not in them.
I suppose a nation that is used to murdering others for religion, would not hesitate to murder again. I pity you for that. I suppose Waco and the children murdered there was just ok in your eyes too, for after all their leader believed in God too. You are the great Anti-Christ we was warned about and some of us will be killed by you and in the reserection you will come up as murders and be cast off the earth and we will enherit the earth and WArren Jeffs will have his wives free and clear. The ones that stick with him. The rest will be cast into hell. and after you have died, you will weep and say, " oh that we had repented in our day of probation that our fair sons and our fair daughters may have not perished." and there will be weeping and wailing and knashing of teeth. And you will be cast off the earth to not enherit your body's and you will not be able to murder and plunder ever again.
now, you can insult me and call me names for having an opinion. that is what you do the best I see. You think that I am so stupid that I do not see your filthy lies? You want me to examine the evidence. I seen the witch hunt. I heard your filthy lies. I watched as our government went after some one for a filthy lie and how they had to search for the liars to sell their souls to hell to convict a man who was not guilty. and I pity you. YOu all for your decietful government who out right murders others and all. You are a nation of vipers and murders as WArren Jeffs said you were and no one lives for ever and God is the judge of all souls and he said he will cast you off the earth to hell where you belong.
You insult the rest of us for not just having opinions, but for having some respect for our nation's laws, and for knowing a sick human being when we see one, that is, the false prophet Warren Steed Jeffs. Some of us that participate on these blogs were not raised in closed, tightly- controlled polygamist groups where lies were constantly fed to us, and correct information about the world around us was constantly withhheld. Many very decent, law-abiding Americans, and many others in other countries are astonished and offended at what is gotten away with inside these groups. We don't fear your uninformed condemnations, and we aren't headed to hell because of anything you, or Warren, or any of his supporters say or believe about us. You are a tiny, fanatical group with twisted values that are often deliberately in violation of the laws of our nation. You yourself are an unfortunate lady who defends such an evil man. You are angry that your "prophet" is finally being punished for his nultitude of crimes. Warren was having group sex with girls ages 12-17 at yfz. He himself made the records of all the things he was tried for. He made the recordings. You've been duped by your "god" and you just can't accept it, so you keep on condemning those of us who watched the trial proceedings. You weren't allowed to get the information. Warren did the crimes, and he made a total fool of himself in court. He insulted and threatened the judge and jury, broke court rules many times, and was given much grace, leniency, and help by the judge. She tried many times to help him not make such mistakes, and she has given him much gracious treatment. Of course, the threats Warren read out loud in court were called "messages from God" by W when the judge warned him not to threaten anyone.
All his offenses are documented in his own records. He is on tape having sex with the 12 year old (who had been 11 a few weeks before.) Yes, he is a child molester. We aren't going to hell because you are angry at us. Warren probably will go there, though. He's not sorry for his many crimes. He could still repent before God for his many lies, for his cruelty to others, for his sex sins, for his extortion of so much money from people,for his pride, for his many molestation acts against several children under his influence years ago. You are just still being lied to by those who have brainwashed you, and you can't deal with it. The only way you would believe it is if you saw all these things with your own eyes. Well, lots of other people did witness W's deeds, and he and they wrote about it extensively. If everyone did with their lives what he has done, there would be no society anywhere functioning at all. Almost everyone would be in jail, and almost nothing constructive would get done! Everyone would be living chaotic lives!!
Its good to see some reasoned seasoned posts, but I will admit I am amazed to see the inner thoughts of FLDS shining through with that one person, "R" is it, who has drunk such a strong batch of koolaid she cant see the forest for the trees.
Warren was sent to prison for life for a reason - and he likely wont last long.
God sent him to hell before his time was even up.
Its true, Warren did those things, and he never denied it, not even once.
Now look at him.
Warren had plenty of opportunities to object, he could have even called the girls to the state to testify but he didn't because he knew he had done the crimes and would now do the time.
The reason he fought so hard to stay in Utah was because he knew what evidence Texas had against him and that he was going to jail.
ThE thing about wsj is that he isn't really unique. Many cult leaders do exactly the same things within their tiny universes to their followers. wsj's deeds fit a well-estblished pattern of money extortion, disinformation, sex slavery and abuse, family destruction, and cult of personality. They last as long or as short a time as they do depending on different aspects of their sect/cult. flds has an extremely high birth rate, a big money stream based on how boys are raised to know trades and work like slaves, girls are conditioned to fear leaving, and to have kids early, which keeps them in the group much longer, and provides lots of emotional confusion and loyalties for another generation to deal with. flds springs from a much bigger religious system than itself, which spans several states. It wouldn't have had this kind of lasting power if all those things weren't the case. I hope to see more families and individuals get out of it for good.
Warren has no one to blame for being in prison, but himself.
Warren can still repent and be truly saved.
Ephesians 2
4. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
5. made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
6. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
7. in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
8. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9. not by works, so that no one can boast.
10. For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Warren has been handled by his people, the gentiles.
Amen, anon Oct.16 1:36 pm. Amen. None of us can boast, it's only Jesus that saves.
Warren was brought up in a stubborn, false doctrine group that doesn't acknowledge Christ's death on Calvary as sufficient. Frankly, I do not recall one mormon fundamentalist that I have ever heard, or whose book I have read, ever referring to Calvary at all.
These groups end up with all sorts of personal-works-for-salvation -based teachings. Heirarchies, pride,judgmentalism,crazy rules. They create all kinds of things to replace the truth. Warren is a victim of false teachings himself, just as he also victimized others with his own false teachings, in addition to those of Joseph Smith. Not one of us deserves salvation. Not one of us can work our way by our own efforts and deeds into the sinless presence of God. Only Calvary provides that. We are told in the word to humbly ask Christ for forgiveness, and He will give it. We are all sinners except for the LORD Jesus. Hallelujah , what a Savior.
(I am same anon as 1:41)--I haven't yet read Mary Mackert's book, or Brian Mackert's either. I am sure they mention how happy they are to have discovered Jesus and Calvary. I was referring to the several other books written by former flds that I have read. I do recall several people saying the Bible was rarely used in their homes or services. They all have said that they were continually taught to obey the man in leadership, and to believe in polygamy for their salvation.
LDS Conspiracies Reveal Themselves
Conspiracies are recognized when one observes the practices of the Mormon Church, also known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
The scholarly book The Mormon Conspiracy reveals how the Latter-Day Saints church (LDS) is organized to restrict individual freedoms, individual thought, independence and democracy. The Mormon Conspiracy documents how the LDS church leaders are involved in these conspiracies to control the United States government, and eventually the world, by establishing its "Kingdom of God" on earth. The words "Kingdom of God" are in quotes, because in reality this is not a Kingdom of God that the Mormon Church wishes to establish, but rather a Kingdom of the Mormon Church, led by fifteen men, the Presidency (three men) and the Quorum of Twelve apostles of the church. The Mormon church members are controlled by an authoritarian organization much like the Monarchy that prevailed in such European countries as France and England before the French Revolution and before a democracy was established in England.
The book The Mormon Conspiracy reveals to the reader how the Mormon church requires religious obedience from members and teaches them that individuals need not think for themselves concerning church doctrine as taught by the Church Authorities, a form of mind control. This is evident even in areas of non-church affairs, such as politics and economics where the church hierarchy expects members to follow its directions. One proof of this is the church’s involvement in defeating the Equal Rights Amendment in 1982 as well as numerous other church-led political activities. The LDS church has a disproportionate influence in such governmental departments as the FBI, the CIA, and the FCC (Federal Communications Commission).
The Mormon Church is gaining influence in Congress with the election of greater numbers of Mormon members. Church influence is obvious in the lobbying of congressional members to support Mormon programs and to vote for laws that further their goals. Church hierarchy involvement is apparent in all aspects of government, including the Supreme Court, as shown by the church’s filing of a legal brief with the court, opposing a New Jersey Supreme Court ruling that would prevent the National Boy Scout organization from excluding gays from Boy Scout groups.
This book was written by Charles L. Wood, Ph.D. Emeritus Professor at the University of Akron.
Mormons regard the President (or Prophet) of the church to be infallible, and they believe that he has direct communication with God, therefore can do no wrong or make a mistake. Members believe that Church Authorities (fourteen apostles in addition to the president of the church) are also infallible. Therefore, these fifteen Authorities have control of the Mormon Church. There is no democracy in the decision making of the church, since all appointments from the highest to the lowest offices in the church are made under the umbrella of the church president. If the Mormon Church were to gain control of the United States there would be no secret ballot election of congressional representatives, no secret ballot election of state legislators, or local governmental officials. All of these officials would be appointed by the President of the Mormon Church, with assistance from other church officials.
http://mormonconspiracy.com
anony 1:41....I love your comments. Jesus paid it all!
To the warren jeffs supporter--Jesus loves you. Whether you think Jeffs is innocent or not. There is a savior who died on the cross for you so that you could live in heaven with Him for all eternity. All you have to do is believe and accept him as your savior. You don't have to follow a big set of rules or not cut your hair or be in a plural marriage.
I hope you will take those words to heart and find Jesus and peace.
Warren for years diverted people's focus on worshiping God, to himself. His life matches Bible's descriptions of false prophets and false Christs. He still presents himself as "just a meek soul" who is speaking "in the stead of God." Look at what his and "revelations" have caused, though they may have come out of this soft-spoken mouth. Totally unnecessary and cruel family tie destructions. Depraved sexual escapades. Enormous financial deceptions. Many and various types of illegal acts, if taking into account those following W.
He is a ravening wolf who still craves total control over those he has dominated up until now.
While "free" he denied himself nothing that entered his imagination- just as other cult leaders do. False Christs and false prophets, in whatever culture or nation, demand homage and indulgences for themselves. There is no question W long ago got to the point of demanding worship for himself- no other message can rightfully be assigned to his mountain of misleading words. He likened every aspect of satisfying his cravings and following his orders, to serving God, persuading those in his loyalty circle to go forward with miserable and silly actions. The many sorry fruits of Warren's life identify him as evil once and for all.
They cannot disobey the prophet and remain flds. He's never getting out. Will they create a new strategy- "re-interpret" his commands, convincing themselves he's just "being tested " again?
A madman who cannot distinguish light from darkness, and their total loyalty to his every whim.
This has been such a study in cult living, in every way I can think of. flds people ignore vast chunks of important Bible doctrine in their slavery to evil men. To cap off their illegal family practices and child abuse, they idolize a strange man who duped them all along, yet they can't stop. flds life has been honed to a narrowness that matches its original basic dead-end view of reality. It has finally truly become what it always was at root- a system for enslaving the souls born into it. flds is now, more unmistakably than ever, just the worship of a cold extortioner and pedophile.
The old flds website used to have at the top, "We seek God, we seek to know Him." I wonder if they are further away from God than ever.
Warren's life and identity bear no resemblance to the life of Jesus Christ as documented in the New Testament. The Old Testament gives many identifying prophecies to correctly identify the Messiah, which were fulfilled by Jesus Christ in every detail. Warren Jeffs has no identification coincidences whatsoever with any faithful (but mortal) Bible prophet of old, let alone to the Messiah himself. But his life does match up with the false prophets of old, and with many aspects of other modern false ones.
Warren hypnotized with conniving "lowly" behavior and speech, but the world has finally been shown he creating hovoc (in mind-numbing detail.) Regardless of low decibles level of his trademark "gentle" droning to direct his slaves, the fruits have been NOT SWEET, but rotten. NOT PURE, but debauched. NOT meek and humble, but lawless and very sad.
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me" said The LORD in Exodus and Deuteronomy. flds always had "a zeal for God," but it was never "after knowledge," as the King James Bible puts it. flds zeal was never according to truth, it was continually according to error, bringing displays of cruelty and hypocrisy while indoctrinating themselves with certain carefully twisted Bible portions, Joseph Smith writings, (and never-ending Wsj "revelations,") all purposefully selected by their leaders to perpetuate the practice of polygamy.
Wanted a real good lawyer that will assist me in bringing justice to my sons murder. If there is any one intrested let me know and I will give you more information on how to contact me.
Anon, can you tell me what happened to your son?
Anon 9:21
Somebody needs to take you to disneyland and get you drunk.
If a prophet dies and his wife is re-asigned...and the new husband dies. Who does the wife have to go to when she dies? Does she get to pick or does she end up in some kind of celestial tug of war?
Just wondering how that whole mess works?
You cannot possibly be serious. Heavenly Father has given YOU intelligence, and has warned you through the scriptures about the teachings of false prophets. Warren Jeffs desires the MINDS of women, long before he desires their bodies. And you surrender it to him freely. NO ONE can serve two masters.
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