FLDS Prophet Warren Jeffs may be serving life in prison, but his followers continue with their work on the YFZ Ranch near Eldorado, Texas where the group's white limestone Temple towers over the town they are building. Polygamy, the practice of plural marriage, appears to be alive and well in the Lone Star State, despite laws to the contrary.
Friday, October 30, 2009
Warren's New Trial
I heard on the radio the other day that Warren Jeffs new trial (or is it an appeal for the old one?) Is set to start sometime in the first of November. Thoughts anyone?
Supreme Court of Utah hearing on the jury's selection will start November 4. The case at the Matheson Courthouse in Salt Lake City.
01:00 pm 4. 20080408 State vs Jeffs CRI
Appellant Warren Steed Jeffs RICHARD A. WRIGHT (WRIGHT, JUDD & WINCKLER) TARA L. ISAACSON (BUGDEN & ISAACSON, LLC) WALTER F. BUGDEN (BUGDEN & ISAACSON, LLC)
Appellee State of Utah CRAIG L. BARLOW (ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL) LAURA B. DUPAIX (ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL) HON. JAMES L. SHUMATE FIFTH DISTRICT, ST GEORGE
Back in 2005 the UtaH Supreme Court heard arguments that led to removal of FLDS member Walter Steed from his post as Hildale’s Justice of the Peace due to his plural marriages.
You people all blame religion for these things. I think you misunderstand the Lord a bit. Walter Steed was fired for upholding a dishonest man........These cops who think they were fired for religion are wrong too. I am not saying Warren Jeffs is guilty. I know he is not. But the person Walter steed lost his job over was for defending a man who every one knows is guilty and not standing up for truth.......
Why is the flds temple considered desecrated and not being used? There are many churches that have been violated with horrible crimes in their sanctuaries. There have been instances of even sexual abuse by priests, etc., but I have never before heard of a church closing its doors because law enforcement came inside. Please explain.
you are only persicuting religion. I say this because you talk evil of a perfect man. If you do not like religion take it to yourself. I think that no matter who preaches about the Lord, they will be critazised.
Per Curiam: ¶1 This matter was filed as a petition under rule 8A of the Rules of Appellate Procedure. We dismiss the petition without prejudice and take this opportunity to clarify the scope and purpose of rule 8A.
(further down)
For the same reason, rule 8A should not be employed as a means for harassing or unjustifiably burdening respondents when ordinary procedural mechanisms would be adequate. This includes the circumstance where the “emergency” has arisen from petitioners’ own unjustified delay in seeking relief. Appellate courts also retain the discretion to waive the abbreviated response deadline when it is apparent on the face of the petition that emergency relief is unnecessary or unjustified.
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Supreme Court of Utah – Tells Rod Parker and the FLDS to stop harassing people, LOL!
you are only persicuting religion. I say this because you talk evil of a perfect man. If you do not like religion take it to yourself. I think that no matter who preaches about the Lord, they will be critazised."
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I think I remember seeing on Youtube, Warren speaking much more eviler of himself.
Ya know, they guy who is the most evil man since Adam, in his own words?
That confession, I believe is true.
He said it, let people understand it, and there is no reason he should be given a pass just because he stole his position.
Look at what he has done for the FLDS people - that speaks for itself.
Declaring the Temple is desecrated and can no longer be used for religious service has bit them in the butt. Local tax assessor denied the tax exemption to the temple as it is not used for religious services (per FLDS).
you are only persicuting religion. I say this because you talk evil of a perfect man. If you do not like religion take it to yourself. I think that no matter who preaches about the Lord, they will be critazised."
Ruthie, relax and move on with your life. Don't end up like Laurene, you are better than that!
It is wise that Willy Jessop and Rod Parker was told to quit harrassing people. Let them take note; You should not ever defend guilty people. Is it just that a man, guilty of great crimes, should hire a lawyer to defend him in his evil? Let the record state; all men who are not guilty need to be very humble and thank the Lord greatly for the gift of perserving them from the filth and creepeness that so easily beset men. If you all think the Lord does not see your sins, open your eyes........he is not blind as you are. and what is the difference between one evil and the other? Let the men make an account to the Lord; why did you lose so baddly? Ask the flatters first. the ones with the waggingest toungs...For the Lord will have a people....
and as to the reference of Laurene; What do you know any how? leave her alone; though hypocrit; first cast the beam out of thine own eye; then cast out the beam from thy neighbors eye; for what man among you are perfect with out sin? for it is written that the Lord is the Judge and Vengince is mine sayeth the Lord.....and he will repay......and for all those that hate me, think of me as speaking to me. but it apply's to all.......let those with out sin, cast the first stone.....and cast them at me, for all men think I have to pay for there sins.....
Rebecca Musser is testifying today at the trial of Raymond Jessop. What is it with Raymond's attorney that he would be hateful to a witness? I understand Flds are paying this attorney very well, but there is NO need to insult and harass a witness, which is what he was doing to Rebecca Musser, but she stood her ground...
quiet in here?...maybe everybody's taking a deep breath before the next trial with the Flabbergastingly Legally-Depraved Ship of Fools...or maybe it's like the lady lawyer among many interviewed right after the yfz "raid," who put it this way, when referring to the 3:30 AM rising time with a lot of the "ranch" little kids who were "competing to clean and do chores": "Enough already!" (whilst shaking her head with disgusted look on face)-
I always did wonder- how do those kids also do a day's schoolwork after getting up at 3 or 4 in the morning? maybe it isn't so very hard when you know at least half the "school time" will be the usual plyg "training." Surely they've got it all down pat- by about age 4? or less? So they can sleep through some of "PT," for heaven sake?
you mean there are actually some getile people who do something, besides shake there heads. No wonder they only have one or two children.....and as if that was not enough. They had to try to steal other children.....good greif America...good grief.....maybe you should teach the adult gentile people how to do something besides critazise and kidnap children. maybe? you think? hu?
Well, this "gentile," (speaking,) ("gentile" being the silly and totally incorrect Mormon misuse/conscription of Bible term which is CORRECTLY used to refer to non-Jews, NOT non-Mormons!)...yes,THIS "gentile" was thrilled when the "raid" took place- the flds was given way too much grace and time by Texas before TX organized the best way it knew how, to go see what the heck those self-isolated cultists were up to. After Waco, what was TX to do, you fools that find such fault! TX officials responsible for public safety were originally told it was a hunting retreat but then hundreds of tiny kids were brought in/born there, plus dozens of women. Wow- some hunting retreat! The only hunting going on at yfz was/is for: ways to break laws others must obey elsewhere, and arrangements to shack up with cult-programmed underage female sex slaves.I cannot write a book today. People with their heads screwed on right do not need to read it all again,and the flds and its supporters do not see or understand anything sensible anyway.
Well, if the FLDS women would stop flushing unwanted fetuses down the toilet like one that I knew, maybe this would be a better world. It is murder to cause the death of a unborn child on purpose, especially by its FLDS mother.
that is what I mean. YOu again judge. If you was to veiw what happened in Waco you would also know that inacent children were shot by the helicopter's. Not the branch dividian's. and to argue over the word gentile is odd. To me it meant, 'one who is not taught of Jesus." Jews rejected the Lord. They wait for him to come. Gentile means disobedient. Ephriamite is perfect with the Lord.......So, if you are a Gentile be a Gentile....for even the heathen the Lord does love.....and It is sensless to critazise "Un-taught, gentile people." And I think it must be a taught, but rejected the Lord, person who answered.....and as you speak of filth, you confess. And I bet there was a lot of Gentiles who was thrilled....just waiting to get your hands on the, "so called brainless, used girls. ?Duck your head in the sand......It cools your engine jets......
I would have not ever suggested you read those books any how. They was only there for the drama of the media...The girls were coached very heavily and all filtered with the same basic lies.......and as to being senless....I am sure every one who initiated the raid was hoping that was all true....Just grab the children. Slap the Mother's down a bit....and walla....the worlds greatest kidnapping.....not to mention the few not publisised and recorded.........Like it or not....truth is truth.....But Texas athority's were lied too, too......so, so, so, so.....You wanted some heat to liven up this quiet day....enjoy....for if you say you loved to see that raid...you was on the guilty side....for every one involved knew who was guilty and who was not and they did not need tanks....of course unless the government intended to do to them, what they did to that little boy on the tank in Texas..........
I wonder how much of tax payers money (bailout) went to their commune? Shouldn't the father's have to pay child support just like the rest of our citizens of the USA,
I think that Father's should pay for all thier children. I think they should put the load upon them. Give the children to the Mother's and take care of them....And then there would not have been any need for the raid, the government worker's who could not keep up with children used to working and living. And that waco thing was a terrible tradgedy. I like Texas. When I was there they helped me. They were nicer than the man I married.
What a shame that some tooting horns on the side of flds on many of these blogs also seem(s)so poorly educated in proper grammar,and in their inability to process the mountain of hard evidence of crimes with numerous flds members.I regard it as tragic proof of the effects this kind of cult can have on at least some of its members.I am not pointing this out as a personal attack, but am making an assessment from where I stand, having read for years about these matters.I lay the fault for these things upon said bloggers apparently having been raised flds,which is an extremely crippling and abusive lifestyle, along with possible mild mental handicap, which of course is no fault of the blogger's-but I'd wager it may partly be due to being born to parents too closely related,a bad practice these cults foster in their beliefs, and/or it is due to the severe intellectual, emotional, and social deprivation fostered by life in flds. This deprivation is seen in veritably every aspect of flds culture,because of incredibly high control and fear exerted on all members at all times.I am of the opinion this leads to abnormal development in most aspects of the brain and personality,showing itself obviously in most flds family groups.That fear and control has nothing to offset the deprivation-the constant indoctrination,threats of punishment,fear of "outsiders," condemnation by God. Nothing is feasible but permanent escape from this harsh,choice-destroying,and frankly, crime-based lifestyle for many in these groups,because perfectly normal self-expression and adequate education is virtually impossible.Fortunately,we are all entitled to our own opinions,whether our words are spelled correctly or not, and hopefully these blogs provide some help for those I am referring to.For all of us interested in these things, the blogs are a way of trying to cope with emotionally-charged issues.For me, the backward/sometimes rather delusional blog entries are shocking proof of what this cult does to many of its members- leaves them in an injured state. I have seen this same situation in my part of the country,(eastern US)- with many members of another ingrained sect, the Amish. They have some perplexing practices viewed as backward and abusive by many.I have witnessed apparently "normal" but excessively "backward-ized" Amish many times-people with medical,social,and educational problems which I believe could all be alleviated to a degree if their religion was not so limiting for them.(Many Amish suffer inbreeding effects also.)Most Amish genders mingle more with "outsiders" due to economic necessity, and they are not polygamous-which leads me to realize I have not heard nearly as many allegations of abuse over a span of nearly fifty years in their area.Yet it has only taken a few years to acquire boat loads of information on the severe abuses in fundamentalist sects that are offshoots of Mormonism.My heart definitely goes out to those so hurt by cult practices and I do wish you well in the future.
The "raid" (I call it rescue and start of reform)was a good,very needed thing-flds'own disgraceful practices necessitated it. Deliberately isolated HUMANS conceived, born, and indoctrinated for one purpose-to perpetuate a deeply determined society where felonies are a daily thing.Where babies are daily taught that the laws of their own country are bad,that all fellow Americans hate them and are evil. That alone is serious child abuse!WE are not talking about animals-flds babies are not pets, livestock,fruits,vegetables,to be sold and manipulated for others' use!(other flds' use!)The raid was heroic, and I still cannot believe those kids were turned back over to that cult so suddenly. We are talking about HUMANS whose lives are completely controlled by felony practices cradle to grave. We are talking about AMERICAN CITIZENS who never realize they have any personal freedoms at all, who are lied to day in and day out from birth by older "members" (slaves.)-Shockingly, it is right here within these United States,where the individual is SUPPOSED to have several basic civil freedoms...flds' entire foundation is this: to completely deny "members"(breeding stock) any real individual decision-making, under constant threat of death! that is really what this group does-face it! A handful of law-defying male flds power brokers use female children like currency, and male children like mindless drones, until many males figure out they can't bear the deprivation and abuse.(stats from the RESCUE show marked inequity between numbers of male and female children at yfz starting right around puberty ages, not before.)YES- the males are victims also, but THEY CAN decide to go to authorities and keep telling their story until someone acts to help these people- it is harder for females to do this.Young males leave or are ejected into a world they have been taught to loathe! Older males who disagree with leadership have had all they love taken from them.Some young males (who know they will be awarded attractive-enough females) remain.THIS IS ABOMINABLE!The females endure powerful,relentless conditioning from birth to accept only one possible life for themselves- as Willie Jessop so aptly puts it, "We have to get to them early..." The obvious goal is to "wed" (assign/breed)females quickly as possible so they will have young of their own inside the cult's clutches. flds manipulates the most basic human emotion in this way- the mother-child bond- and yet, I have often heard infants are sometimes torn from their own mothers and given to others to raise!All of this is unspeakable wickedness! So much this cult does is being withheld from the general public.flds are so indoctrinated/warped they DO NOT know their own thoughts and feelings because they have been forced to "NOT HAVE" THOSE THINGS.Part of flds "training" involves females being made to feel that anything they may ever think that is not from the "prophet's" mouth is evil. Those who leave or are ejected are considered "dead."flds practices are nothing but evil cult programming from cradle to grave.
it is exactly why I would never want to be anything else. "I am just a brain washed, mildly mentally ill person, who needs to be mainstreamed to be saved" according to all you great one's. Yes, I have not ever heard anything different. Except it is not true....so hit the nail agian you horrid people......who would kidnap other's children, because they are different and not you.
I want to say something else-this flds stuff has engrossed MILLIONS of Americans. WE ALL HAVE A RIGHT TO express solidarity with OUR LAWS!! THIS IS THE USA-ALL OF IT!-not some abject third world entity, and NOT a patchwork of middle-ages fiefdoms. The US stands apart from many nations BECAUSE it has the ideal of LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL! Sure, we fall short sometimes, but we are a young nation.OUR IDEALS ARE GOOD! I have much religious training and experience my own self-and no,I am NOT on the side of those that think all religious belief and training should be kept completely apart from all education. On the contrary, I believe MERCY and TRUTH and respect for God and one's fellowman is part and parcel of a well-rounded, effective education. The entire US code of laws,ethics, and common decency originates in the Holy Bible. That is fact. I have traveled through most of the US, and lived in 5 regions of it. There are problems and joys throughout the US. Utah was one of the more emotionally difficult places to visit. I was there for several days and nights and noticed a distinct atmosphere of "church-domination" of the entire state, unlike any other state. It was obvious Mormonism has a deep hold there-predictably,a widespread fixation with a polygamy-rooted belief system has created a seedbed for cult activity and pedophile protections,which is abetted by geographic realities of huge open space. That is my assessment. I stand by it. I am so sorry to see that spread to other states as it has. There should be no age of consent below 18 in any part of North America, 17 at the lowest.Sure,perfect enforcement might be impossible, but it would be a stronger legal deterrent for abusers of epidemic number and such widespread "religious" rape which is rationalized by the cultural atmosphere of Utah and the places this "faith-based"abuse has spread to.My words.IMO.Period.
Dozens of those young flds "members" (breeding stock/slaves) were NOT biological offspring of the "adults" at that agricultural prison camp. Many of those confusingly ID'd youngsters had already been kidnapped from their natural parents by this wicked, disgraceful cult. I stand by the terms I have chosen- flds practices kidnapping and many sorts of serious crimes within its own ranks.Indeed,flds should know crime terms well, for it does much harm to its own members. I daresay, "takes one to know one," when flds and its sympathizers pathetically accuse others who try to help its most vulnerable "members," of crimes! flds' own gigantic hypocrisy has finally brought a small bit of justice its way. I hope far more will be forthcoming.
Ruthie, relax and seek guidance. Go visit your sister Laurene and learn from her, she has been rebaptised and returned to her virgin state. There is a chance of starting over, talk to her!
Has anyone ever at any time said flds need to "be mainstreamed?" There is no one "mainstream" that anyone is part of anywhere, in my opinion. I am talking only about OBEYING LAWS that American citizens must obey- as are those trying to deal with the huge, expensive, burdensome, legal and moral mess flds brought to TX and has spread to other states as well.I literally cried for Texas when the "raid"(RESCUE!) occurred because anyone with sense could see how expensive it would become, how fraught with legal problems- again I say- it was HEROIC to finally try to do something about this insane cult! I will never back down from that assessment! Americans can have so MANY different values and life patterns, and have a multitude of opinions and choices and still live within US laws.This "us/them" mentality is forced into all flds from birth and it's pathetic-thinking all non-flds Americans are just one big "mainstream." No, if all of America did what the flds commits day after day against its "own" we would ALL deserve the penitentiary. This shows how crippled your perception of the US really is.The cult did this to you.If I and others who think as I do about these things finally got you angry enough to have one thought of your own that is NOT flds programming, PRAISE THE LORD.If you read carefully what I said above, I indicated that I have many times witnessed people in my part of the US (specifically, Amish )that seem to have normal intelligence who have been indoctrinated so heavily and deprived so long of medical attention that they develop problems which make them appear "backward-ized" (yes, even somewhat "mentally handicapped." I actually think there may be no original mental handicap at all in some of these -and the one(s)I am addressing here-! I am saying some people in these ultra-strict groups are MADE SICK AND MADE "stupid" by the SICK GROUP'S WAYS and numerous criminal acts against them-from birth onward.When people call for reform regarding groups like flds, what is being called for is an end to felony lifestyle and criminal indoctrination masquerading as "religious freedom." flds and many other ultra-repressive sects twist that "freedom" until common decency can disappear completely .
Talk about "Warrens new Trial" - He never got the UEP in Probate or given him in a Will.
OOPSEY DOODLES!
Now Rod Parker suddenly forgot that the UEP was magically owned by Rulon all this time, and Probate slipped his mind.
This is so crazy you cant make it up. Yes these are the folks who send girls back and forth between states and other countries for "questionable" practices, AHEM!
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Estate of dead FLDS leader seeks control of trust
Associated Press - November 23, 2009 6:14 PM ET
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -
Attorneys for the estate of deceased polygamous church leader Rulon Jeffs are asking a judge to return control of a communal land trust to the church's governing body.
In court papers filed Monday, attorneys for the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints say the properties held by the United Effort Plan Trust belong to the Corporation of the President.
The Utah courts took control of the trust in 2005 after allegations of mismanagement by Warren Jeffs, the current FLDS president and Rulon Jeffs' son.
The court revamped the trust in 2006, stripping out its religious purpose.
FLDS attorney Rod Parker says the trust was mishandled and the decision denied Rulon Jeffs' estate and the church corporation a right to due pro... continued....
Rod Parker and his men defended crime. They should not be involved. They know there dishonesty. Let them step up to the plate and admit this crime they have participated in.
you know what though; Rod Parker is most likly as good a lawyer as any. Just lawyer's are paid. Paid by there employes...and are lied to....so a person can not feel to horrid really about a lawyer who is paid to decieve.....after all he was lied to too.....
deceive (the rule "i before e EXCEPT after c, OR when sounded like A as in neighbor and weigh" is a good rule to know)
Now then- Yes, lawyers are lied to. They can decide to look into what is told to them by would-be clients, question those clients another time,and decide whether or not to take cases.If a lawyer chooses to defend someone they know full well is guilty of the crime, that is that particular lawyer.Many will not defend the guilty. Some that decide to try it will get up and create lots of theatrics to mislead the jury intentionally, knowing full well they are being untruthful. In such cases they are being paid to muddy the waters as much as possible.The more money guilty clients are willing to throw away on defense, the better. Indeed,these types of "legal eagles" will answer to the LORD when it is their turn to do so,for using their talent from Him for such purposes instead of for truth and justice based on reality, not distortion. Fancy "lawyering" based on falsehoods is commonly seen with guilty celebrity clients with millions to burn. Well-paid "expert witnesses" for the defense have been known to get up and insist they are telling the exact truth in detail about something, and later divulge that they were lying under examination during a trial but were "doing their best" since their pay for appearing was so great. This occurred with the Phil Specter trial- so much money was spent on "experts" on a five month long fiasco when in fact there had been an immediate confession by the client, and high bail paid, BEFORE the trial even materialized. Specter was advised by a big name lawyer to plead guilty but decided to spend millions trying to convince everyone of the opposite of the truth. He finally is in jail anyway. The first person he asked for defense representation advised the guilty plea and chose not to defend him. What I have found amusing time and again is how Warren used a FEMALE lawyer in his defense team with the Wall trial (OH, THE HORROR of it all!)who had DISGRACEFULLY, UNGODLY short hair and EXPOSED lower legs- DEAR GOD! what a Jezebel!)and how flds uses a non-flds lawyer in the charming Mr. Parker. Aren't females vastly inferior, UnkyDub, dear? Aren't "gentiles" all condemned? My, my, seems we need some clarity ....
Whew!-(dabs fevered brow with delicate lace handkerchief..)(or p'raps a freshly laundered good old bandana..) SOO gratifying to know somebody appreciates my efforts...Yes, "UnkyDub" was obvious handle choice for yours truly...it occurred to me a few years ago,possibly even before learning these dear souls refer to group "leaders" as "Uncle" this or that. When I discovered that choice tidbit(but to me,a remarkably grim one,)I was not only flabbergasted and overwhelmed with the irony of it-("Honey, run out to the kitchen and fetch your (leering) Uncle WhatsHisName a nice glass of iced something or other, won't you? He's going to "watch" you and the babies for a little while...He said he's not too busy to help out- isn't that sweet?") I've always been appalled at the incredible pedophile-encouraging atmosphere which seems to run like a broken record with these groups,apparently generation upon generation. It's astonishing. I still can hardly comprehend how much isolation has been thrust upon all born into the flds and like groups. I still say the best thing that can happen to any of them is to get ejected. Whatever laws needed to bring youngsters out of it,give non-abusing caregivers and parents full custody,etc, should be created and written into TX law asap, with UT and AZ and all other flds- infected states following suit without delay. Whatever all states need to do to discourage contemporaneous multiple "spouse"-taking behavior,should be done. WHATEVER it takes. No coddling, no accommodation, no "understanding." No religious "recognition" of any kind. Monogamy marriage standards should be uniform nationwide, likewise consent laws.The incredibly overdue legislative response to these problems-so sad. Better late than never. This kind of thing has been a shame to the nation long enough.
It is a time for WAR on these "Pligs". A militia must be organized quickly so that we may free the priesthood's slaves. What image shall be on our flag?
I would have never believed how you could all encourage this tyranny if I had not seen this with my own eye's. You actually think one woman and one man marriages will save you? I am shocked with the divorce rate. and abuse is rampant in your city's. So, you hated me just because of my religion. I will tell you how I feel. I am proud to be associated with Uncle Warren. He is the most honest man in the world. If every man was like him, we would have a perfect world.....
and the abuses are coming to a grinding halt. Every day we get closer to justace; upon the people who would have murdered us and our children. Even if we have to wait until the reserection; justace will be had. Yes, Sam Barlow, Stephen Barlow, even you will have to make an account. You are old men now. Time never sits still. You will pay for the people you have tried to destroy. All of you will pay the penilty of your sins.
I could see why you would blame Laurene for this post. Sam and STephen have a lot to make an account for. Warren Jeffs and his people make it a habit of targeting the women. How-ever it is the men behind the media trash, that destroy lifes. It is Ironic, because I know a man who beat his daughter and left her locked in her room until the bruses healed. When she ran away from him, she thought the media would help her. They turned the film against Warren and the man who really abused her was left to find another victum. They target me too. They do every thing they can think up to be horribly rude to me too, because they think that I targeted Warren and I never. They have protected and covered up abuse. I do not care if they hate me any more. I have not ever had love. I was just stupid to think that Warren would care about me. I know that he never has, and the men there cover up abuse. All there religion is about is control and force. And they owe me a debt. Dr. Lyde is a man who covers up abuse for men. and I feel like the state is justified in the men they are arresting. IN the reserection Warren will wish he had cared. He will weep for the participation that his brother had in destroying my life. He will weep for his part in destroying my life. He will weep for his part in putting crimnals on a pedistle. I defended him. I always did right and was punished by him and his people. I am putting this before the Lord; They always protected the men. If a man did wrong, they shake hands with them and they walk away. There life is not tarnished. If a girl does wrong they target her until she goes to the media or drops dead. My people owe me a debt. They owe me a debt, for they protected the grossest men and did every thing humanly possible to destroy me.
And Lyle Jeffs is a control freak just like the men before him. He knows nothing about me and thinks he has the power to condemn me to hell and do every thing he can to destroy me. I do not have to worry about going to hell. I was born there. All my life there has only been men who tried to destroy me. For the first time in my life, I have spoken against Lyle Jeffs. He has his little MOffia around him. You also Lyle owe me a debt. You and your people have protected abuse.......
Now, that I know you church had nothing to do with anything but protecting abuse, I will tell you this Lyle; I would not ever go into court and try to keep Warren in Jail. I would not ever bring a case against you. You hated me just like I was told you did. I did not believe this until you told me with your own mouth. I should have known. Course you hated me. That is why it was so easy for your men to abuse me. I want you to know that when I come up in the reserection I can honestly tell the LOrd his people did every thing humanly possible to destroy me, why Lyle JEffs and Warren did nothing because they hated me........
and Lyle, you had the power to do something to stop abuse and you protected it. I was a person even if you and your people have all the power to destroy. YOu can not destroy my soul. No matter how you try, you and your Mofia can not destroy my soul.
If you want to be in Warren's church, they will beat you up and sabatage your life. If you do not they will not ever just let you leave. The only one's who really are happy in his church are the one's who are there to keep force and control over people. And they have one victum after the other. Lyle Jeffs and his Mofia crowd....
I know that what Warren Jeffs and Lyle Jeffs pretend to stand on is true. I know what is taught in the Book of Mormon is true; I kno what the Bible teaches is true; but his people do not live it. I know that the man I married is a crimnal of the blackest kind, and there-fore I can not Blame Lyle Jeffs; but he did not care about the truth and I have come to realize that no one cared and all it was about is destroying lifes any how. I can not go to hell. I was born there. and they can not ever hurt me again. Them and there devil's.
so, just because I call these people the Mafia, do not think I do not believe in what Rulon Jeffs taught. He said one thing and his people did another.........for they are destroyers........
I say this as a witness to the world, and all the people who know Willard Barlow; YOu and I know you are a destroyer. YOu and i both know. Uncle Alvin told me I was very patient. HE also was a witness to Willard Barlow's abuse and protected him in this. No man gets out of there sins, no matter what they say. He gave me a reading award every year at school, Alvin Barlow did. I wash my hands of you and your freinds. YOu all loved abuse and lies....I am sure your paddle you beat Kendal with is still shining as a hero in your house.......I am sure when you walk into the spirit world John Y. Barlow will have your place in Hell prepared......
and if any of you would have wanted proof you would have had it. Dr. Loyde also protects abuse. He also is a crimnal with the rest of them. I know Warren and Lyle know nothing about what really happened so they will not be guilty in heaven, but the one's who knew and covered up abuse will pay the penilty.......
and Lyle Jeffs you may celibrate what you did to me, but one thing you must know; I never once ever, tried to hurt Warren. So, your celibration is in vain; for I was not ever your enamy, but you sure was mine.......they told me that every one thought I was stupid and you would not ever know the difference. YOu will in the reserection and weep, when you see how you helped tratiors.......and the souls who was sabataged, because none of you cared about truth.........
I know what I say does not mean any thing to them. They always have a rule to make sure I fail, and traitors win. I used to admire these people, but they always protect and defend abusers. It is such a tradgedy that I lived to know them. They use religion to destroy..........
If Rod Parker has the power to give the people he defended the land, then he is turning it over to out-right crimnal's. Bruce Wisen does not care about the land or the people. Bruce Wisen only cares about money he thinks is owed him. No one owes Bruce Wisen money. He is an imposter. and the other people do not care, except for the people who they suppose will go to heaven, who are traitor's. So, it is just a matter of which, cruelest group can beat the other down.
Looking at this from the outside, I see a beat down woman who is angry at her abusers - and the mafioso that is called the FLDS. (directed at the Thugs - Enforcers of leaders - not the good people)
And a vent on Bruce. The way I see it, Bruce is working to take these thugs control away - give people their homes, so they cant be slaves to whomever thug is running amok.
Bruce is frustrated at the lack of cooperation from day one by ALL people, but he knows why.
Thats why the plan is to give people their homes.
The FLDS leaders keep suing themselves in the foot, in the end it will indeed be costly, but they would gamble it all to keep control.
Ruth Warren was Prophet, he knew exactly what was going on, he made sure who ever was excommunicated in his own fantasy, that they were booted out. Ruth, warren jeffs had a hand in you losing your children and being put in flagstaff, he ORDERED it. So stop defending Warren Jeffs, he is as much a liar as the rest of them. Warren and his leaders at the time, knew exactly what to do to cover up what happened to your children ruth and HE took part, just like everyone else. You were a hinderence to Warren Ruth, thats all you were. Now Warren sits in jail where he should be, and many others will follow.
Its true, not only will there be a dozen men following Warren to prison, but there are a few who think they have the right to hire dozens of lawyers in a vain attempt at controlling the UEP, and in the process, will waste it all away.
The fault lies in FLDS leadership, not Bruce Wisan. Most of the fees owed are for defending FLDS suits and dividing up the land so people can actually own their own home, out of the reach of flds thugs like Warren, Lyle, Willie, et al.
The sooner the people accept their homes the sooner Bruce will be gone.
yes, to give the people there homes. who has homes. I was not ever there land. It was not mine; yet it is weird, because all I paid was lost. It does not matter any more. I sould not have complained. Bruce can not give people there homes. I am going to buy mine. I do not take other peoples land. It was hung in great big letters that it was not our land. NO on was lied to in regards to the land. On the other hand no one had a right to do to me what they done. The Lord is the judge. and if they would have just let me alone to live my life, I would not give a hoot about the land they kept; but to go out of there way to harrass is another matter. and don't all of you claim responsibility to what you done. IT is easier to blame someone else for what you done. Warren Jeffs never don any thing at all to me, or for me...and all the men involved was responsible. And you can not take your land to heaven. Just your deeds and then you will make an honest account. for you have a record of your deeds. None of you was stupid. And neither was I. I know who hurt me, and it as not Lyle JEffs, or Warren JEffs, or any other Jeffs for that matter..........deciviers that you be....always blaming other's for what you done, and even if Warren ordered it, you are a coward to use that as an excuse.....cowards that beat woman and childen up; so you can keep your land and lies......
and I do have evidence of what I said........and I did not need evidence, for all you cowardly men knew the truth and lied to Mark Shirtliff; so make a clean break of it and confess your sins to him, so it will go easier on you in the next life........cowards
This poor soul is an example of what happens when someone has been convinced through priestly propaganda, that ones common sense is "the Devil speaking to you." uncaduff.
uncaduff, I just do not know who you are or what you are talking about, but I will tell you this; this poor soul is very hurt........and it has nothing to do with the devil or anything like that, unless you are convinced like me that the man I married was and is the devil....
but speaking of the devil, I have found out that every woman who leaves the man she wed, thinks he is the devil. So, my husband is normal, and Warren Jeffs, and Lyle Jeffs are an exception to the rule. They care and are honest....What will the foold so in the spirit world. It is written they will weep that they did sell their birth right........My husband actually thinks he is going to cheat fate. He actually thinks that he will not have to make an account for his lies.....He does not know much about the Lord, but I shall tell you this.....When I marry this man who loves me for all eternity, I shall never think twice about the man who robbed me and would have had me die on the street, like a common beggar........And I shall have a million children he can not destroy, because I shall be living forever, in heaven......and you will mock in your depths of hell; Ye, traitor's of the inacent.......
for fools can not cheat the LOrd. They may flounder, in their bounds here, but there they will be honest with themselves and they will be cast into outer darkenss, with themselves......for can you cheat yourselves and the Lord; tis' impossible....even if you do not believe........
oh, I forgot what this blog was about; Polygamy......let me debate the matter.....Polygamy is not illegal. Only laws were made to persicute the Celestial Law. Polygamy is lived by billion's in the United States and no one cares as long as they do not claim to be Fundamental Mormon's......For no Fundamental Mormon will live Polygamy nor, will they promote it.......There is a great difference between the law of Sarah and how you all cohabitate upon the Land.............For there is no evil in the Celestial Law.........and that is for the record, for a nation that makes laws against one tiny little religion......and condones every thing else including making laws against the constitution........and like all empires that turn from the Lord, they have an end....and will not stand for-ever and ever. To those who think that we are racist's I tell you we are not. You have been given choices just like every other soul, and if you do not like our church it was because you choose out.......I am Ephrimite! I am not ashamed of my Birth-right. I think you should all honor your culture.......But I was clearly born Ephrimite....or clearly will be.........And no man dis-honered the Lord who honored him-self.......So if you are cast into outer darkness it was because you could not stand the light and chose darkness.........and the Lord has a place prepared fo all men.........And no matter what you all decide about warren Jeffs; just makes you honest, if you say he is perfect, and dis-honest if you say he is not.........
for the Lord sent no man to teach the world; for the world glories in itself. He sent a man to gather the believers. and in the spirit world, you are what you are, just like here....believers or non-believers'......and to what each of you have chosen, it will be given full fold.......for no man can step out of their bounds.....
Messianic Israelites, or Ephraimites are non-Jewish believers in the New Testament figure of Jesus who consider themselves to be the (spiritual and/or physical) descendents of the lost tribes of the Northern Kingdom of Biblical Israel.
They are distinguished from other Christians by their adherence to Biblical Law and their adoption of Jewish models of Torah observance and ritual life.
The groups who identify with this movement typically retain a broadly Christian understanding of Jesus as God incarnate and as a personal savior whose sacrificial death effectively atones for individual sins.
Jews who accept Jesus/Yeshua as Israel's Messiah and as personal savior form a saved remnant of the southern tribes known collectively as "Judah". In this version of Messianic theology, believing Messianic Israel (non-Jewish "Ephraim") and saved Jews ("Judah") will one day be united to form the true, eschatological "Israel" of God under the rulership of the Davidic Messiah, Jesus/Yeshua [then the two houses will indeed become one house].
In general, the fact that certain Christians feel called to a Torah-observant lifestyle and experience a visceral connection to the land of Israel is taken to be evidence of their true Identity as Israelites.
RUTH I don't think your a Ephraimite.
Also Warren is not pure.
Only Jesus Christ is pure and Warren is no Jesus Christ.
what do you really ever know? taken back in and forgiven? Yes, they would forgive, like I done something wrong.....what hero"s they all are......just like the good ol' days....always trying to fix and tell me what to do. Maybe I have not forgiven. for there assult on me....ever think of that? yes, the good ol' sweet liars.....tell them to repent; I am not talking about Warren and Lyle either.....I am talking about the cruel'est man on earth.......taken back in and forgiven......oh, yes....I am sure she was happy to take there money....but forgiven? LEt God be the judge...........who then can forgive? and lesson's from Laurene....what about it Flora? should I call you up and run the race she did....I think not...let hr have her glory....it fits her better.........try to tell Coody to email her.....and leave me alone...I never needed him. I do not want him........embarass some one else....
It is weird how you all talk to me and if you know something and understand.....Like I need forgiven......you all sound like Richard Cooke....take me back to the fold, so I can be cheated, lied too, and beaten agian.....great America......sweet like Laurene? yes, give her the glory....it fits her better.....I am not any one......
I have a plan; Let Alvin Barlow confess his abuse and the cover up of abuse of his sons, and I will give his wooden paddle a great big award made out of gold and pure silver to him when he comes before the Lord in judgment day....before him and his evil son's are cast into outer darkness, for-ever and ever.........
just an observation: YOU'RE means "you are" ... YOUR is possessive of "you".... extremely common error seen everywhere these days, (including this blog.) Correct usage example- "I don't think you're an Ephraimite." one more correct usage example- "Please correct your grammar." If one is going to expound on such deep matters (whether or not we agree with said expounder)- it would be great to see "you're" when telling someone "You are this or that."
or perhaps this:
"You're cruisn' for a bruisin' from Willie, but your daughter still looks good, so let's see if we can work something out."
or, lastly, "Your sister is also Warren's wife, but you're wrong if you think she's happy."
oh, gee, I just love spelling lessons. Let me see.....you are having a good day. You may be happy. You can spell. You are not here. YOu and your's are lost. my sister, I have none. you are your best freind, you.
Let me ask you this; was he guilty or dd you hate him for his religion? for I know, that there is no justace except with the Lord; and illusions are not hid to him......
I am glad you looked at the spelling lesson,"sister." You continue to insult many and you continue to worship a mortal sinner who has committed heinous crimes. But you know what? Jesus understands that. He is the Only Wise God,real strength is His. And you need the LORD JESUS CHRIST to forgive you of your stubborn idolatry regarding Mr.Warren Jeffs. (The spelling help can wait-it has nothing to do with one's spiritual condition, on that we agree.) May the LORD free you from the bondage of heart and mind you still live in.It is available to you ONLY through the One Who gave Himself upon the Cross of Calvary many centuries ago. He will return in great glory and power, and m'am, The LORD JESUS is NOT Mr.Warren Jeffs, (who sits in an orange jumpsuit in a small cell trying not to eat,fasting because he thinks it may help his situation.God will not regard those fasts or those hours on knees either because Warren is still not a child of God, let alone some special prophet.) JESUS is the only one humans should worship.The one sitting in that jail cell right now, who has forced so many to suffer so much loss, cannot ever help you- Warren desperately needs the same Christ that you do,dear.Forgiveness for Warren's many sins is still available to him before he goes into eternity,but through Jesus Christ alone. Put away all those mormon false teachings and come to Christ. Tell Warren to do the same when you write to Him.
I do not understand why Raymond got so much less time- is it because the girl he impregnated was "willing?" and therefore his actions were not as heinous in jury's eyes?
Raymonds offense was before an 2005 law that enhanced this particular crime to a first degree felony.
I think his Bigamy charge is still first degree but we'll see.
Allan committed his act AFTER the law was changed so it is first degree, plus LE actually warned them at the ranch to avoid this illegal behavior, it was ignored by that perfect guy wassisname and of course all his associates at YF Zippers.
thanks for the explanation- I cannot keep track of everything but surely am grateful the flds is being dealt with in TX better than elsewhere- may the LORD grant many more convictions in 2010, (and much deliverance in 2010 through the Cross of Christ alone, for the many enslaved flds (heart,body, and mind-slaves) as well!!-Nothing is impossible with Christ-Yes, Merry Christmas! God bless.
False teachings of all kinds, throughout history, all over the world, are based upon anything that does not acknowledge the death of Christ,(who alone was called "The Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world") as completely sufficient for the forgiveness of mankind's sins. Therefore, flds beliefs are just one false system of a multitude of false belief systems, where many other "particulars" and specific behaviors and conditions are required to satisfy Almighty God for one's sin debt. Before Christ's death, faithful Jews WERE commanded by God to closely observe a very specific animal sacrifice system, which went on for many centuries. That demanding system was a foreshadowing of the blood finally shed by the only sinless person who ever lived- Jesus Christ. Read the New Testament.Since Christ came to earth, lived His sinless life, allowed Himself to be sacrificed for us, and clearly identified Himself as the One True Messiah (who will one day return to earth,) there have been many, many false belief systems. These sprang up very early in earth's history, pagan rituals, idol worship, etc, and they are still numerous today in many forms. Flds focuses on strict and often cruel behaviors, such as polygamy and "prophet" obedience(to the degree of worship of the prophet)for "salvation," yet the Bible,correctly read, without twisting it, clearly condemns such things as sin.It is quite sad that people like Joseph Smith clouded people's thinking so much that critical, clear Biblical teachings became secondary to his personal desires, which he cloaked as "commandments from God." It is all typical false-doctrine thought patterning(at which Smith excelled.)He used fabricated, powerful Bible-sounding phrases to "command" sin and make it sound like something sacrificial and necessary.Despicable!
In Canada, Saskatchewan province, Polygamy is legal. They use section 51 of their marital property act to legalize multiple /plural marriage like relationships. Head for Saskatchewan! Note: best to call them first and see that they agree to no prosecution.
Again, if any part of North America allows polygamists free entry from other places,due to their "religious beliefs," and continues to allow currently resident polygamists in NA to go unpunished, there are going to be a lot more expensive problems for which law-abiding people's taxes will get used.The cycle of expensive court battles, arguing, and miseries which go along with most polygamy will just continue, grow, and fester. The practice was never legal in North America for excellent reasons. This is just terrible to watch people harking back to this backward, demeaning way of living,arguing for "rights" to do it as if it is something noble,valuable and worthy- far from it!
Supreme Court of Utah hearing on the jury's selection will start November 4.
ReplyDeleteThe case at the Matheson Courthouse in Salt Lake City.
01:00 pm 4. 20080408 State vs Jeffs CRI
Appellant Warren Steed Jeffs
RICHARD A. WRIGHT (WRIGHT, JUDD & WINCKLER)
TARA L. ISAACSON (BUGDEN & ISAACSON, LLC)
WALTER F. BUGDEN (BUGDEN & ISAACSON, LLC)
Appellee State of Utah CRAIG L. BARLOW (ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL)
LAURA B. DUPAIX (ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL)
HON. JAMES L. SHUMATE
FIFTH DISTRICT, ST GEORGE
Back in 2005 the UtaH Supreme Court heard arguments that led to removal of FLDS member Walter Steed from his post as Hildale’s Justice of the Peace due to his plural marriages.
You people all blame religion for these things. I think you misunderstand the Lord a bit. Walter Steed was fired for upholding a dishonest man........These cops who think they were fired for religion are wrong too. I am not saying Warren Jeffs is guilty. I know he is not. But the person Walter steed lost his job over was for defending a man who every one knows is guilty and not standing up for truth.......
ReplyDeleteThis time we will try to do it right...........I will any how..
ReplyDeleteWhy is the flds temple considered desecrated and not being used? There are many churches that have been violated with horrible crimes in their sanctuaries. There have been instances of even sexual abuse by priests, etc., but I have never before heard of a church closing its doors because law enforcement came inside. Please explain.
ReplyDeleteTo inquirer of why temple is used no more by flds by Richard Jessop.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/24351336#24351336
Go to time 3:14
I agree, and all his disciples ought to be in a religious detox program.
ReplyDeleteCorrection
ReplyDeleteSupreme Court of Utah hearing on the jury's selection will start November 3rd today.
The case at the Matheson Courthouse in Salt Lake City.
Anon 10:33
ReplyDeleteSorry Charlie, only the best tuna are found guilty, convicted, and sentenced like Warren.
If you dont like America move to Mexico, Canada or China, take your pick, I dont give a flip.
But in America he is guilty, found so by a JURY.
He can appeal it till the cows come home, all he is doing is nailing shut any goodwill the FLDS ever had.
you are only persicuting religion. I say this because you talk evil of a perfect man. If you do not like religion take it to yourself. I think that no matter who preaches about the Lord, they will be critazised.
ReplyDeleteBIG NEWS - FLDS UEP appeal is denied.
ReplyDeleteFrom the UT courts site Anonymous @11:42am provided today they dismissed weewillie and rod parkers complaint against Judge Lindberg:
http://www.utcourts.gov/opinions/supopin/Snow5110309.pdf
Per Curiam:
¶1 This matter was filed as a petition under rule 8A of
the Rules of Appellate Procedure. We dismiss the petition
without prejudice and take this opportunity to clarify the scope
and purpose of rule 8A.
(further down)
For the same reason, rule 8A should not be employed as a
means for harassing or unjustifiably burdening respondents when
ordinary procedural mechanisms would be adequate. This includes
the circumstance where the “emergency” has arisen from
petitioners’ own unjustified delay in seeking relief. Appellate
courts also retain the discretion to waive the abbreviated
response deadline when it is apparent on the face of the petition
that emergency relief is unnecessary or unjustified.
***
Supreme Court of Utah – Tells Rod Parker and the FLDS to stop harassing people, LOL!
http://texasflds.wordpress.com/2009/10/29/open-discussion-16/#comment-13588
"Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteyou are only persicuting religion. I say this because you talk evil of a perfect man. If you do not like religion take it to yourself. I think that no matter who preaches about the Lord, they will be critazised."
========================
I think I remember seeing on Youtube, Warren speaking much more eviler of himself.
Ya know, they guy who is the most evil man since Adam, in his own words?
That confession, I believe is true.
He said it, let people understand it, and there is no reason he should be given a pass just because he stole his position.
Look at what he has done for the FLDS people - that speaks for itself.
Declaring the Temple is desecrated and can no longer be used for religious service has bit them in the butt. Local tax assessor denied the tax exemption to the temple as it is not used for religious services (per FLDS).
ReplyDeleteThey got bit in the butt so many times this past year there aint nuthin left of it!
ReplyDeleteWith all of this butt kicking and @$$ biting, by the courts, someone is gonna be sitting on big fluffy pillows for a long time!
ReplyDelete--MC--
"Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteyou are only persicuting religion. I say this because you talk evil of a perfect man. If you do not like religion take it to yourself. I think that no matter who preaches about the Lord, they will be critazised."
Ruthie, relax and move on with your life. Don't end up like Laurene, you are better than that!
It is wise that Willy Jessop and Rod Parker was told to quit harrassing people. Let them take note; You should not ever defend guilty people. Is it just that a man, guilty of great crimes, should hire a lawyer to defend him in his evil? Let the record state; all men who are not guilty need to be very humble and thank the Lord greatly for the gift of perserving them from the filth and creepeness that so easily beset men. If you all think the Lord does not see your sins, open your eyes........he is not blind as you are. and what is the difference between one evil and the other? Let the men make an account to the Lord; why did you lose so baddly? Ask the flatters first. the ones with the waggingest toungs...For the Lord will have a people....
ReplyDeleteand as to the reference of Laurene; What do you know any how? leave her alone; though hypocrit; first cast the beam out of thine own eye; then cast out the beam from thy neighbors eye; for what man among you are perfect with out sin? for it is written that the Lord is the Judge and Vengince is mine sayeth the Lord.....and he will repay......and for all those that hate me, think of me as speaking to me. but it apply's to all.......let those with out sin, cast the first stone.....and cast them at me, for all men think I have to pay for there sins.....
ReplyDeleteRebecca Musser is testifying today at the trial of Raymond Jessop. What is it with Raymond's attorney that he would be hateful to a witness?
ReplyDeleteI understand Flds are paying this attorney very well, but there is NO need to insult and harass a witness, which is what he was doing to Rebecca Musser, but she stood her ground...
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"and as to the reference of Laurene; What do you know any how? leave her alone;"
No one is bothering her! So what do you know hypocrite :) (chuckle)
Raymond Merril Jessop
ReplyDeleteGuilty of Sexual Assault of a Minor
Sentencing Monday
Faces up to 20 years
A good start for the 12 trials coming up, it sets the tone!
Sure got quiet here!!
ReplyDeleteLet no man break the laws of the land, for he that keepeth the laws of God hath no need to break the laws of the land.
quiet in here?...maybe everybody's taking a deep breath before the next trial with the Flabbergastingly Legally-Depraved Ship of Fools...or maybe it's like the lady lawyer among many interviewed right after the yfz "raid," who put it this way, when referring to the 3:30 AM rising time with a lot of the "ranch" little kids who were "competing to clean and do chores": "Enough already!" (whilst shaking her head with disgusted look on face)-
ReplyDeleteI always did wonder- how do those kids also do a day's schoolwork after getting up at 3 or 4 in the morning? maybe it isn't so very hard when you know at least half the "school time" will be the usual plyg "training." Surely they've got it all down pat- by about age 4? or less? So they can sleep through some of "PT," for heaven sake?
you mean there are actually some getile people who do something, besides shake there heads. No wonder they only have one or two children.....and as if that was not enough. They had to try to steal other children.....good greif America...good grief.....maybe you should teach the adult gentile people how to do something besides critazise and kidnap children. maybe? you think? hu?
ReplyDeleteWell, this "gentile," (speaking,) ("gentile" being the silly and totally incorrect Mormon misuse/conscription of Bible term which is CORRECTLY used to refer to non-Jews, NOT non-Mormons!)...yes,THIS "gentile" was thrilled when the "raid" took place- the flds was given way too much grace and time by Texas before TX organized the best way it knew how, to go see what the heck those self-isolated cultists were up to. After Waco, what was TX to do, you fools that find such fault! TX officials responsible for public safety were originally told it was a hunting retreat but then hundreds of tiny kids were brought in/born there, plus dozens of women. Wow- some hunting retreat! The only hunting going on at yfz was/is for: ways to break laws others must obey elsewhere, and arrangements to shack up with cult-programmed underage female sex slaves.I cannot write a book today. People with their heads screwed on right do not need to read it all again,and the flds and its supporters do not see or understand anything sensible anyway.
ReplyDeleteWell, if the FLDS women would stop flushing unwanted fetuses down the toilet like one that I knew, maybe this would be a better world. It is murder to cause the death of a unborn child on purpose, especially by its FLDS mother.
ReplyDeletethat is what I mean. YOu again judge. If you was to veiw what happened in Waco you would also know that inacent children were shot by the helicopter's. Not the branch dividian's. and to argue over the word gentile is odd. To me it meant, 'one who is not taught of Jesus." Jews rejected the Lord. They wait for him to come. Gentile means disobedient. Ephriamite is perfect with the Lord.......So, if you are a Gentile be a Gentile....for even the heathen the Lord does love.....and It is sensless to critazise "Un-taught, gentile people." And I think it must be a taught, but rejected the Lord, person who answered.....and as you speak of filth, you confess. And I bet there was a lot of Gentiles who was thrilled....just waiting to get your hands on the, "so called brainless, used girls. ?Duck your head in the sand......It cools your engine jets......
ReplyDeleteI would have not ever suggested you read those books any how. They was only there for the drama of the media...The girls were coached very heavily and all filtered with the same basic lies.......and as to being senless....I am sure every one who initiated the raid was hoping that was all true....Just grab the children. Slap the Mother's down a bit....and walla....the worlds greatest kidnapping.....not to mention the few not publisised and recorded.........Like it or not....truth is truth.....But Texas athority's were lied too, too......so, so, so, so.....You wanted some heat to liven up this quiet day....enjoy....for if you say you loved to see that raid...you was on the guilty side....for every one involved knew who was guilty and who was not and they did not need tanks....of course unless the government intended to do to them, what they did to that little boy on the tank in Texas..........
ReplyDeleteOOOOKay
ReplyDelete(insert Twilight Zone theme song here)
Sounds like someone's been drinking Big Willie's koolaid.
I wonder how much of tax payers money (bailout) went to their commune? Shouldn't the father's have to pay child support just like the rest of our citizens of the USA,
ReplyDeleteI think that Father's should pay for all thier children. I think they should put the load upon them. Give the children to the Mother's and take care of them....And then there would not have been any need for the raid, the government worker's who could not keep up with children used to working and living. And that waco thing was a terrible tradgedy. I like Texas. When I was there they helped me. They were nicer than the man I married.
ReplyDeleteWhat a shame that some tooting horns on the side of flds on many of these blogs also seem(s)so poorly educated in proper grammar,and in their inability to process the mountain of hard evidence of crimes with numerous flds members.I regard it as tragic proof of the effects this kind of cult can have on at least some of its members.I am not pointing this out as a personal attack, but am making an assessment from where I stand, having read for years about these matters.I lay the fault for these things upon said bloggers apparently having been raised flds,which is an extremely crippling and abusive lifestyle, along with possible mild mental handicap, which of course is no fault of the blogger's-but I'd wager it may partly be due to being born to parents too closely related,a bad practice these cults foster in their beliefs, and/or it is due to the severe intellectual, emotional, and social deprivation fostered by life in flds. This deprivation is seen in veritably every aspect of flds culture,because of incredibly high control and fear exerted on all members at all times.I am of the opinion this leads to abnormal development in most aspects of the brain and personality,showing itself obviously in most flds family groups.That fear and control has nothing to offset the deprivation-the constant indoctrination,threats of punishment,fear of "outsiders," condemnation by God. Nothing is feasible but permanent escape from this harsh,choice-destroying,and frankly, crime-based lifestyle for many in these groups,because perfectly normal self-expression and adequate education is virtually impossible.Fortunately,we are all entitled to our own opinions,whether our words are spelled correctly or not, and hopefully these blogs provide some help for those I am referring to.For all of us interested in these things, the blogs are a way of trying to cope with emotionally-charged issues.For me, the backward/sometimes rather delusional blog entries are shocking proof of what this cult does to many of its members- leaves them in an injured state. I have seen this same situation in my part of the country,(eastern US)- with many members of another ingrained sect, the Amish. They have some perplexing practices viewed as backward and abusive by many.I have witnessed apparently "normal" but excessively "backward-ized" Amish many times-people with medical,social,and educational problems which I believe could all be alleviated to a degree if their religion was not so limiting for them.(Many Amish suffer inbreeding effects also.)Most Amish genders mingle more with "outsiders" due to economic necessity, and they are not polygamous-which leads me to realize I have not heard nearly as many allegations of abuse over a span of nearly fifty years in their area.Yet it has only taken a few years to acquire boat loads of information on the severe abuses in fundamentalist sects that are offshoots of Mormonism.My heart definitely goes out to those so hurt by cult practices and I do wish you well in the future.
ReplyDeleteThe "raid" (I call it rescue and start of reform)was a good,very needed thing-flds'own disgraceful practices necessitated it. Deliberately isolated HUMANS conceived, born, and indoctrinated for one purpose-to perpetuate a deeply determined society where felonies are a daily thing.Where babies are daily taught that the laws of their own country are bad,that all fellow Americans hate them and are evil. That alone is serious child abuse!WE are not talking about animals-flds babies are not pets, livestock,fruits,vegetables,to be sold and manipulated for others' use!(other flds' use!)The raid was heroic, and I still cannot believe those kids were turned back over to that cult so suddenly. We are talking about HUMANS whose lives are completely controlled by felony practices cradle to grave. We are talking about AMERICAN CITIZENS who never realize they have any personal freedoms at all, who are lied to day in and day out from birth by older "members" (slaves.)-Shockingly, it is right here within these United States,where the individual is SUPPOSED to have several basic civil freedoms...flds' entire foundation is this: to completely deny "members"(breeding stock) any real individual decision-making, under constant threat of death! that is really what this group does-face it! A handful of law-defying male flds power brokers use female children like currency, and male children like mindless drones, until many males figure out they can't bear the deprivation and abuse.(stats from the RESCUE show marked inequity between numbers of male and female children at yfz starting right around puberty ages, not before.)YES- the males are victims also, but THEY CAN decide to go to authorities and keep telling their story until someone acts to help these people- it is harder for females to do this.Young males leave or are ejected into a world they have been taught to loathe! Older males who disagree with leadership have had all they love taken from them.Some young males (who know they will be awarded attractive-enough females) remain.THIS IS ABOMINABLE!The females endure powerful,relentless conditioning from birth to accept only one possible life for themselves- as Willie Jessop so aptly puts it, "We have to get to them early..." The obvious goal is to "wed" (assign/breed)females quickly as possible so they will have young of their own inside the cult's clutches. flds manipulates the most basic human emotion in this way- the mother-child bond- and yet, I have often heard infants are sometimes torn from their own mothers and given to others to raise!All of this is unspeakable wickedness! So much this cult does is being withheld from the general public.flds are so indoctrinated/warped they DO NOT know their own thoughts and feelings because they have been forced to "NOT HAVE" THOSE THINGS.Part of flds "training" involves females being made to feel that anything they may ever think that is not from the "prophet's" mouth is evil. Those who leave or are ejected are considered "dead."flds practices are nothing but evil cult programming from cradle to grave.
ReplyDeleteHe that maketh haste to be rich shall not be innocent.
ReplyDeleteCool your jets Ruthie, Anonymous has hit the nail on the head.
ReplyDeleteV
it is exactly why I would never want to be anything else. "I am just a brain washed, mildly mentally ill person, who needs to be mainstreamed to be saved" according to all you great one's. Yes, I have not ever heard anything different. Except it is not true....so hit the nail agian you horrid people......who would kidnap other's children, because they are different and not you.
ReplyDeleteI want to say something else-this flds stuff has engrossed MILLIONS of Americans. WE ALL HAVE A RIGHT TO express solidarity with OUR LAWS!! THIS IS THE USA-ALL OF IT!-not some abject third world entity, and NOT a patchwork of middle-ages fiefdoms.
ReplyDeleteThe US stands apart from many nations BECAUSE it has the ideal of LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL! Sure, we fall short sometimes, but we are a young nation.OUR IDEALS ARE GOOD! I have much religious training and experience my own self-and no,I am NOT on the side of those that think all religious belief and training should be kept completely apart from all education. On the contrary, I believe MERCY and TRUTH and respect for God and one's fellowman is part and parcel of a well-rounded, effective education. The entire US code of laws,ethics, and common decency originates in the Holy Bible. That is fact.
I have traveled through most of the US, and lived in 5 regions of it. There are problems and joys throughout the US. Utah was one of the more emotionally difficult places to visit. I was there for several days and nights and noticed a distinct atmosphere of "church-domination" of the entire state, unlike any other state. It was obvious Mormonism has a deep hold there-predictably,a widespread fixation with a polygamy-rooted belief system has created a seedbed for cult activity and pedophile protections,which is abetted by geographic realities of huge open space. That is my assessment. I stand by it. I am so sorry to see that spread to other states as it has. There should be no age of consent below 18 in any part of North America, 17 at the lowest.Sure,perfect enforcement might be impossible, but it would be a stronger legal deterrent for abusers of epidemic number and such widespread "religious" rape which is rationalized by the cultural atmosphere of Utah and the places this "faith-based"abuse has spread to.My words.IMO.Period.
Dozens of those young flds "members" (breeding stock/slaves) were NOT biological offspring of the "adults" at that agricultural prison camp. Many of those confusingly ID'd youngsters had already been kidnapped from their natural parents by this wicked, disgraceful cult. I stand by the terms I have chosen- flds practices kidnapping and many sorts of serious crimes within its own ranks.Indeed,flds should know crime terms well, for it does much harm to its own members. I daresay, "takes one to know one," when flds and its sympathizers pathetically accuse others who try to help its most vulnerable "members," of crimes! flds' own gigantic hypocrisy has finally brought a small bit of justice its way. I hope far more will be forthcoming.
ReplyDeleteRuthie, relax and seek guidance. Go visit your sister Laurene and learn from her, she has been rebaptised and returned to her virgin state. There is a chance of
ReplyDeletestarting over, talk to her!
Anon,
ReplyDeleteI have personal knowledge of that too.
Federal charges could begin at any time, I hope sooner rather than later.
Warren really went too far.
And he had help too.
Has anyone ever at any time said flds need to "be mainstreamed?" There is no one "mainstream" that anyone is part of anywhere, in my opinion. I am talking only about OBEYING LAWS that American citizens must obey- as are those trying to deal with the huge, expensive, burdensome, legal and moral mess flds brought to TX and has spread to other states as well.I literally cried for Texas when the "raid"(RESCUE!) occurred because anyone with sense could see how expensive it would become, how fraught with legal problems- again I say- it was HEROIC to finally try to do something about this insane cult! I will never back down from that assessment! Americans can have so MANY different values and life patterns, and have a multitude of opinions and choices and still live within US laws.This "us/them" mentality is forced into all flds from birth and it's pathetic-thinking all non-flds Americans are just one big "mainstream." No, if all of America did what the flds commits day after day against its "own" we would ALL deserve the penitentiary. This shows how crippled your perception of the US really is.The cult did this to you.If I and others who think as I do about these things finally got you angry enough to have one thought of your own that is NOT flds programming, PRAISE THE LORD.If you read carefully what I said above, I indicated that I have many times witnessed people in my part of the US (specifically, Amish )that seem to have normal intelligence who have been indoctrinated so heavily and deprived so long of medical attention that they develop problems which make them appear "backward-ized" (yes, even somewhat "mentally handicapped." I actually think there may be no original mental handicap at all in some of these -and the one(s)I am addressing here-! I am saying some people in these ultra-strict groups are MADE SICK AND MADE "stupid" by the SICK GROUP'S WAYS and numerous criminal acts against them-from birth onward.When people call for reform regarding groups like flds, what is being called for is an end to felony lifestyle and criminal indoctrination masquerading as "religious freedom." flds and many other ultra-repressive sects twist that "freedom" until common decency can disappear completely .
ReplyDeleteWell, these dozen convictions and sentences, along with the multitudes of other legal issues, ought to be a wham bam wake up call to the half hearted.
ReplyDeleteWhy are they half hearted? They know what they do is wrong and don't want to suffer the consequences coming down the pipe.
Warren took the first hit, now the rest of the pins will start falling.
Look at all the balloons popping, and the loud noise they make as they go off, one by one.
OOPS -
ReplyDeleteLooks like Rulon forgot to leave a will.
Talk about "Warrens new Trial" - He never got the UEP in Probate or given him in a Will.
OOPSEY DOODLES!
Now Rod Parker suddenly forgot that the UEP was magically owned by Rulon all this time, and Probate slipped his mind.
This is so crazy you cant make it up. Yes these are the folks who send girls back and forth between states and other countries for "questionable" practices, AHEM!
=============
Estate of dead FLDS leader seeks control of trust
Associated Press - November 23, 2009 6:14 PM ET
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -
Attorneys for the estate of deceased polygamous church leader Rulon Jeffs are asking a judge to return control of a communal land trust to the church's governing body.
In court papers filed Monday, attorneys for the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints say the properties held by the United Effort Plan Trust belong to the Corporation of the President.
The Utah courts took control of the trust in 2005 after allegations of mismanagement by Warren Jeffs, the current FLDS president and Rulon Jeffs' son.
The court revamped the trust in 2006, stripping out its religious purpose.
FLDS attorney Rod Parker says the trust was mishandled and the decision denied Rulon Jeffs' estate and the church corporation a right to due pro... continued....
http://www.kswt.com/global/story.asp?s=11560985
Rod Parker and his men defended crime. They should not be involved. They know there dishonesty. Let them step up to the plate and admit this crime they have participated in.
ReplyDeleteAnybody with eyes, ears and a brain knows the crimes they committed.
ReplyDeleteAnd I think Utah and AZ are finished giving them Carte Blanch for all the abuse they perpetrate on people.
Karma is a Bee-Yotch.
you know what though; Rod Parker is most likly as good a lawyer as any. Just lawyer's are paid. Paid by there employes...and are lied to....so a person can not feel to horrid really about a lawyer who is paid to decieve.....after all he was lied to too.....
ReplyDeletespelling time: likely
ReplyDeletelawyers (plural of lawyer)
their employees (possessive of employee)
cannot (is just one word)
too (not to) in this use
(use "too horrid")
deceive (the rule "i before e EXCEPT after c, OR when sounded like A as in neighbor and weigh" is a good rule to know)
Now then- Yes, lawyers are lied to. They can decide to look into what is told to them by would-be clients, question those clients another time,and decide whether or not to take cases.If a lawyer chooses to defend someone they know full well is guilty of the crime, that is that particular lawyer.Many will not defend the guilty. Some that decide to try it will get up and create lots of theatrics to mislead the jury intentionally, knowing full well they are being untruthful. In such cases they are being paid to muddy the waters as much as possible.The more money guilty clients are willing to throw away on defense, the better. Indeed,these types of "legal eagles" will answer to the LORD when it is their turn to do so,for using their talent from Him for such purposes instead of for truth and justice based on reality, not distortion. Fancy "lawyering" based on falsehoods is commonly seen with guilty celebrity clients with millions to burn. Well-paid "expert witnesses" for the defense have been known to get up and insist they are telling the exact truth in detail about something, and later divulge that they were lying under examination during a trial but were "doing their best" since their pay for appearing was so great. This occurred with the Phil Specter trial- so much money was spent on "experts" on a five month long fiasco when in fact there had been an immediate confession by the client, and high bail paid, BEFORE the trial even materialized. Specter was advised by a big name lawyer to plead guilty but decided to spend millions trying to convince everyone of the opposite of the truth. He finally is in jail anyway. The first person he asked for defense representation advised the guilty plea and chose not to defend him.
What I have found amusing time and again is how Warren used a FEMALE lawyer in his defense team with the Wall trial (OH, THE HORROR of it all!)who had DISGRACEFULLY, UNGODLY short hair and EXPOSED lower legs- DEAR GOD! what a Jezebel!)and how flds uses a non-flds lawyer in the charming Mr. Parker. Aren't females vastly inferior, UnkyDub, dear? Aren't "gentiles" all condemned? My, my, seems we need some clarity ....
Nice English lesson, capped with "UnkyDub"...
ReplyDeleteniiiiiiiceeeee
8)
Whew!-(dabs fevered brow with delicate lace handkerchief..)(or p'raps a freshly laundered good old bandana..) SOO gratifying to know somebody appreciates my efforts...Yes, "UnkyDub" was obvious handle choice for yours truly...it occurred to me a few years ago,possibly even before learning these dear souls refer to group "leaders" as "Uncle" this or that. When I discovered that choice tidbit(but to me,a remarkably grim one,)I was not only flabbergasted and overwhelmed with the irony of it-("Honey, run out to the kitchen and fetch your (leering) Uncle WhatsHisName a nice glass of iced something or other, won't you? He's going to "watch" you and the babies for a little while...He said he's not too busy to help out- isn't that sweet?") I've always been appalled at the incredible pedophile-encouraging atmosphere which seems to run like a broken record with these groups,apparently generation upon generation. It's astonishing. I still can hardly comprehend how much isolation has been thrust upon all born into the flds and like groups. I still say the best thing that can happen to any of them is to get ejected. Whatever laws needed to bring youngsters out of it,give non-abusing caregivers and parents full custody,etc, should be created and written into TX law asap, with UT and AZ and all other flds- infected states following suit without delay. Whatever all states need to do to discourage contemporaneous multiple "spouse"-taking behavior,should be done. WHATEVER it takes. No coddling, no accommodation, no "understanding." No religious "recognition" of any kind. Monogamy marriage standards should be uniform nationwide, likewise consent laws.The incredibly overdue legislative response to these problems-so sad. Better late than never. This kind of thing has been a shame to the nation long enough.
ReplyDeleteIt is a time for WAR on these "Pligs". A militia must be organized quickly so that we may free the priesthood's slaves. What image shall be on our flag?
ReplyDeleteAny ideas?
Anon 1:33
ReplyDeleteHA, indeed! But if they simply enforced the law the abuses would come to a grinding halt as the abusing perps start serving decades-long sentences.
Anon 10:28
Warren brought a civil war unto himself, without the law, who knows the depths of destruction he would have created.
He is safely kept in a little room now.
That can be your image.
I would have never believed how you could all encourage this tyranny if I had not seen this with my own eye's. You actually think one woman and one man marriages will save you? I am shocked with the divorce rate. and abuse is rampant in your city's. So, you hated me just because of my religion. I will tell you how I feel. I am proud to be associated with Uncle Warren. He is the most honest man in the world. If every man was like him, we would have a perfect world.....
ReplyDeleteand the abuses are coming to a grinding halt. Every day we get closer to justace; upon the people who would have murdered us and our children. Even if we have to wait until the reserection; justace will be had. Yes, Sam Barlow, Stephen Barlow, even you will have to make an account. You are old men now. Time never sits still. You will pay for the people you have tried to destroy. All of you will pay the penilty of your sins.
ReplyDeleteWell written Laurene. Good to see you posting again.
ReplyDeleteI could see why you would blame Laurene for this post. Sam and STephen have a lot to make an account for. Warren Jeffs and his people make it a habit of targeting the women. How-ever it is the men behind the media trash, that destroy lifes. It is Ironic, because I know a man who beat his daughter and left her locked in her room until the bruses healed. When she ran away from him, she thought the media would help her. They turned the film against Warren and the man who really abused her was left to find another victum. They target me too. They do every thing they can think up to be horribly rude to me too, because they think that I targeted Warren and I never. They have protected and covered up abuse. I do not care if they hate me any more. I have not ever had love. I was just stupid to think that Warren would care about me. I know that he never has, and the men there cover up abuse. All there religion is about is control and force. And they owe me a debt. Dr. Lyde is a man who covers up abuse for men. and I feel like the state is justified in the men they are arresting. IN the reserection Warren will wish he had cared. He will weep for the participation that his brother had in destroying my life. He will weep for his part in destroying my life. He will weep for his part in putting crimnals on a pedistle. I defended him. I always did right and was punished by him and his people. I am putting this before the Lord; They always protected the men. If a man did wrong, they shake hands with them and they walk away. There life is not tarnished. If a girl does wrong they target her until she goes to the media or drops dead. My people owe me a debt. They owe me a debt, for they protected the grossest men and did every thing humanly possible to destroy me.
ReplyDeleteAnd Lyle Jeffs is a control freak just like the men before him. He knows nothing about me and thinks he has the power to condemn me to hell and do every thing he can to destroy me. I do not have to worry about going to hell. I was born there. All my life there has only been men who tried to destroy me. For the first time in my life, I have spoken against Lyle Jeffs. He has his little MOffia around him. You also Lyle owe me a debt. You and your people have protected abuse.......
ReplyDeleteNow, that I know you church had nothing to do with anything but protecting abuse, I will tell you this Lyle; I would not ever go into court and try to keep Warren in Jail. I would not ever bring a case against you. You hated me just like I was told you did. I did not believe this until you told me with your own mouth. I should have known. Course you hated me. That is why it was so easy for your men to abuse me. I want you to know that when I come up in the reserection I can honestly tell the LOrd his people did every thing humanly possible to destroy me, why Lyle JEffs and Warren did nothing because they hated me........
ReplyDeleteand Lyle, you had the power to do something to stop abuse and you protected it. I was a person even if you and your people have all the power to destroy. YOu can not destroy my soul. No matter how you try, you and your Mofia can not destroy my soul.
ReplyDeleteIf you want to be in Warren's church, they will beat you up and sabatage your life. If you do not they will not ever just let you leave. The only one's who really are happy in his church are the one's who are there to keep force and control over people. And they have one victum after the other. Lyle Jeffs and his Mofia crowd....
ReplyDeleteI know that what Warren Jeffs and Lyle Jeffs pretend to stand on is true. I know what is taught in the Book of Mormon is true; I kno what the Bible teaches is true; but his people do not live it. I know that the man I married is a crimnal of the blackest kind, and there-fore I can not Blame Lyle Jeffs; but he did not care about the truth and I have come to realize that no one cared and all it was about is destroying lifes any how. I can not go to hell. I was born there. and they can not ever hurt me again. Them and there devil's.
ReplyDeleteso, just because I call these people the Mafia, do not think I do not believe in what Rulon Jeffs taught. He said one thing and his people did another.........for they are destroyers........
ReplyDeletefor none of you horrid men will live forever........
ReplyDeleteI say this as a witness to the world, and all the people who know Willard Barlow; YOu and I know you are a destroyer. YOu and i both know. Uncle Alvin told me I was very patient. HE also was a witness to Willard Barlow's abuse and protected him in this. No man gets out of there sins, no matter what they say. He gave me a reading award every year at school, Alvin Barlow did. I wash my hands of you and your freinds. YOu all loved abuse and lies....I am sure your paddle you beat Kendal with is still shining as a hero in your house.......I am sure when you walk into the spirit world John Y. Barlow will have your place in Hell prepared......
ReplyDeleteand if any of you would have wanted proof you would have had it. Dr. Loyde also protects abuse. He also is a crimnal with the rest of them. I know Warren and Lyle know nothing about what really happened so they will not be guilty in heaven, but the one's who knew and covered up abuse will pay the penilty.......
ReplyDeleteI am sick of paying your debts. You will have to pay for your own sins......
ReplyDeleteand Lyle Jeffs you may celibrate what you did to me, but one thing you must know; I never once ever, tried to hurt Warren. So, your celibration is in vain; for I was not ever your enamy, but you sure was mine.......they told me that every one thought I was stupid and you would not ever know the difference. YOu will in the reserection and weep, when you see how you helped tratiors.......and the souls who was sabataged, because none of you cared about truth.........
ReplyDeleteI know what I say does not mean any thing to them. They always have a rule to make sure I fail, and traitors win. I used to admire these people, but they always protect and defend abusers. It is such a tradgedy that I lived to know them. They use religion to destroy..........
ReplyDeleteand what is the point in talking, knowing you hated me and rejoiced to help destroy me.
ReplyDeleteIf Rod Parker has the power to give the people he defended the land, then he is turning it over to out-right crimnal's. Bruce Wisen does not care about the land or the people. Bruce Wisen only cares about money he thinks is owed him. No one owes Bruce Wisen money. He is an imposter. and the other people do not care, except for the people who they suppose will go to heaven, who are traitor's. So, it is just a matter of which, cruelest group can beat the other down.
ReplyDeleteLooking at this from the outside, I see a beat down woman who is angry at her abusers - and the mafioso that is called the FLDS. (directed at the Thugs - Enforcers of leaders - not the good people)
ReplyDeleteAnd a vent on Bruce. The way I see it, Bruce is working to take these thugs control away - give people their homes, so they cant be slaves to whomever thug is running amok.
Bruce is frustrated at the lack of cooperation from day one by ALL people, but he knows why.
Thats why the plan is to give people their homes.
The FLDS leaders keep suing themselves in the foot, in the end it will indeed be costly, but they would gamble it all to keep control.
Ruth
ReplyDeleteWarren was Prophet, he knew exactly what was going on, he made sure who ever was excommunicated in his own fantasy, that they were booted out.
Ruth, warren jeffs had a hand in you losing your children and being put in flagstaff, he ORDERED it. So stop defending Warren Jeffs, he is as much a liar as the rest of them.
Warren and his leaders at the time, knew exactly what to do to cover up what happened to your children ruth and HE took part, just like everyone else.
You were a hinderence to Warren Ruth, thats all you were. Now Warren sits in jail where he should be, and many others will follow.
Its true, not only will there be a dozen men following Warren to prison, but there are a few who think they have the right to hire dozens of lawyers in a vain attempt at controlling the UEP, and in the process, will waste it all away.
ReplyDeleteThe fault lies in FLDS leadership, not Bruce Wisan. Most of the fees owed are for defending FLDS suits and dividing up the land so people can actually own their own home, out of the reach of flds thugs like Warren, Lyle, Willie, et al.
The sooner the people accept their homes the sooner Bruce will be gone.
yes, to give the people there homes. who has homes. I was not ever there land. It was not mine; yet it is weird, because all I paid was lost. It does not matter any more. I sould not have complained. Bruce can not give people there homes. I am going to buy mine. I do not take other peoples land. It was hung in great big letters that it was not our land. NO on was lied to in regards to the land. On the other hand no one had a right to do to me what they done. The Lord is the judge. and if they would have just let me alone to live my life, I would not give a hoot about the land they kept; but to go out of there way to harrass is another matter. and don't all of you claim responsibility to what you done. IT is easier to blame someone else for what you done. Warren Jeffs never don any thing at all to me, or for me...and all the men involved was responsible. And you can not take your land to heaven. Just your deeds and then you will make an honest account. for you have a record of your deeds. None of you was stupid. And neither was I. I know who hurt me, and it as not Lyle JEffs, or Warren JEffs, or any other Jeffs for that matter..........deciviers that you be....always blaming other's for what you done, and even if Warren ordered it, you are a coward to use that as an excuse.....cowards that beat woman and childen up; so you can keep your land and lies......
ReplyDeleteand I do have evidence of what I said........and I did not need evidence, for all you cowardly men knew the truth and lied to Mark Shirtliff; so make a clean break of it and confess your sins to him, so it will go easier on you in the next life........cowards
ReplyDeletethey always defend traitor's and sixty years later they notice something is wrong and kick them out of the church.....
ReplyDeleteThis poor soul is an example of what happens when someone has been convinced through priestly propaganda, that ones common sense is "the Devil speaking to you."
ReplyDeleteuncaduff.
uncaduff, I just do not know who you are or what you are talking about, but I will tell you this; this poor soul is very hurt........and it has nothing to do with the devil or anything like that, unless you are convinced like me that the man I married was and is the devil....
ReplyDeletebut speaking of the devil, I have found out that every woman who leaves the man she wed, thinks he is the devil. So, my husband is normal, and Warren Jeffs, and Lyle Jeffs are an exception to the rule. They care and are honest....What will the foold so in the spirit world. It is written they will weep that they did sell their birth right........My husband actually thinks he is going to cheat fate. He actually thinks that he will not have to make an account for his lies.....He does not know much about the Lord, but I shall tell you this.....When I marry this man who loves me for all eternity, I shall never think twice about the man who robbed me and would have had me die on the street, like a common beggar........And I shall have a million children he can not destroy, because I shall be living forever, in heaven......and you will mock in your depths of hell; Ye, traitor's of the inacent.......
ReplyDeletewhat will the fools do in the spirit world?
ReplyDeletefor fools can not cheat the LOrd. They may flounder, in their bounds here, but there they will be honest with themselves and they will be cast into outer darkenss, with themselves......for can you cheat yourselves and the Lord; tis' impossible....even if you do not believe........
ReplyDeleteoh, I forgot what this blog was about; Polygamy......let me debate the matter.....Polygamy is not illegal. Only laws were made to persicute the Celestial Law. Polygamy is lived by billion's in the United States and no one cares as long as they do not claim to be Fundamental Mormon's......For no Fundamental Mormon will live Polygamy nor, will they promote it.......There is a great difference between the law of Sarah and how you all cohabitate upon the Land.............For there is no evil in the Celestial Law.........and that is for the record, for a nation that makes laws against one tiny little religion......and condones every thing else including making laws against the constitution........and like all empires that turn from the Lord, they have an end....and will not stand for-ever and ever. To those who think that we are racist's I tell you we are not. You have been given choices just like every other soul, and if you do not like our church it was because you choose out.......I am Ephrimite! I am not ashamed of my Birth-right. I think you should all honor your culture.......But I was clearly born Ephrimite....or clearly will be.........And no man dis-honered the Lord who honored him-self.......So if you are cast into outer darkness it was because you could not stand the light and chose darkness.........and the Lord has a place prepared fo all men.........And no matter what you all decide about warren Jeffs; just makes you honest, if you say he is perfect, and dis-honest if you say he is not.........
ReplyDeletefor the Lord sent no man to teach the world; for the world glories in itself. He sent a man to gather the believers. and in the spirit world, you are what you are, just like here....believers or non-believers'......and to what each of you have chosen, it will be given full fold.......for no man can step out of their bounds.....
ReplyDeleteGosh Ruth, you need to take a lesson from your sister Laurene and keep sweet again. She was taken back in and is forgiven.
ReplyDeleteDefinition and Basic Theology:
ReplyDeleteMessianic Israelites, or Ephraimites are non-Jewish believers in the New Testament figure of Jesus who consider themselves to be the (spiritual and/or physical) descendents of the lost tribes of the Northern Kingdom of Biblical Israel.
They are distinguished from other Christians by their adherence to Biblical Law and their adoption of Jewish models of Torah observance and ritual life.
The groups who identify with this movement typically retain a broadly Christian understanding of Jesus as God incarnate and as a personal savior whose sacrificial death effectively atones for individual sins.
Jews who accept Jesus/Yeshua as Israel's Messiah and as personal savior form a saved remnant of the southern tribes known collectively as "Judah". In this version of Messianic theology, believing Messianic Israel (non-Jewish "Ephraim") and saved Jews ("Judah") will one day be united to form the true, eschatological "Israel" of God under the rulership of the Davidic Messiah, Jesus/Yeshua [then the two houses will indeed become one house].
In general, the fact that certain Christians feel called to a Torah-observant lifestyle and experience a visceral connection to the land of Israel is taken to be evidence of their true Identity as Israelites.
RUTH I don't think your a Ephraimite.
Also Warren is not pure.
Only Jesus Christ is pure and Warren is no Jesus Christ.
what do you really ever know? taken back in and forgiven? Yes, they would forgive, like I done something wrong.....what hero"s they all are......just like the good ol' days....always trying to fix and tell me what to do. Maybe I have not forgiven. for there assult on me....ever think of that? yes, the good ol' sweet liars.....tell them to repent; I am not talking about Warren and Lyle either.....I am talking about the cruel'est man on earth.......taken back in and forgiven......oh, yes....I am sure she was happy to take there money....but forgiven? LEt God be the judge...........who then can forgive? and lesson's from Laurene....what about it Flora? should I call you up and run the race she did....I think not...let hr have her glory....it fits her better.........try to tell Coody to email her.....and leave me alone...I never needed him. I do not want him........embarass some one else....
ReplyDeleteIt is weird how you all talk to me and if you know something and understand.....Like I need forgiven......you all sound like Richard Cooke....take me back to the fold, so I can be cheated, lied too, and beaten agian.....great America......sweet like Laurene? yes, give her the glory....it fits her better.....I am not any one......
ReplyDeleteI have a plan; Let Alvin Barlow confess his abuse and the cover up of abuse of his sons, and I will give his wooden paddle a great big award made out of gold and pure silver to him when he comes before the Lord in judgment day....before him and his evil son's are cast into outer darkness, for-ever and ever.........
ReplyDeletejust an observation: YOU'RE means "you are" ... YOUR is possessive of "you".... extremely common error seen everywhere these days, (including this blog.) Correct usage example- "I don't think you're an Ephraimite." one more correct usage example- "Please correct your grammar." If one is going to expound on such deep matters (whether or not we agree with said expounder)- it would be great to see "you're" when telling someone "You are this or that."
ReplyDeleteor perhaps this:
"You're cruisn' for a bruisin' from Willie, but your daughter still looks good, so let's see if we can work something out."
or, lastly, "Your sister is also Warren's wife, but you're wrong if you think she's happy."
Toodles.
oh, gee, I just love spelling lessons. Let me see.....you are having a good day. You may be happy. You can spell. You are not here. YOu and your's are lost. my sister, I have none. you are your best freind, you.
ReplyDeleteLooks like a jury is seated and the trial for Allen Keate starts in 20 minutes.
ReplyDeleteLet me ask you this; was he guilty or dd you hate him for his religion? for I know, that there is no justace except with the Lord; and illusions are not hid to him......
ReplyDeleteAnon,
ReplyDeleteI'd say he looks guilty, but the jury will decide that.
I dont 'hate' him, but if he did the heinous things he is charged with, it may mean he spends the rest of his days in prison.
OBTW, others have been convicted of these crimes, look at Warren and Raymond, so dont act like this doesnt happen.
Unfortunately for you at this date and time on this particular planet this crap is against the law.
Deal with it.
I am glad you looked at the spelling lesson,"sister." You continue to insult many and you continue to worship a mortal sinner who has committed heinous crimes. But you know what? Jesus understands that. He is the Only Wise God,real strength is His. And you need the LORD JESUS CHRIST to forgive you of your stubborn idolatry regarding Mr.Warren Jeffs. (The spelling help can wait-it has nothing to do with one's spiritual condition, on that we agree.) May the LORD free you from the bondage of heart and mind you still live in.It is available to you ONLY through the One Who gave Himself upon the Cross of Calvary many centuries ago. He will return in great glory and power, and m'am, The LORD JESUS is NOT Mr.Warren Jeffs, (who sits in an orange jumpsuit in a small cell trying not to eat,fasting because he thinks it may help his situation.God will not regard those fasts or those hours on knees either because Warren is still not a child of God, let alone some special prophet.) JESUS is the only one humans should worship.The one sitting in that jail cell right now, who has forced so many to suffer so much loss, cannot ever help you- Warren desperately needs the same Christ that you do,dear.Forgiveness for Warren's many sins is still available to him before he goes into eternity,but through Jesus Christ alone. Put away all those mormon false teachings and come to Christ. Tell Warren to do the same when you write to Him.
ReplyDeleteI do not understand why Raymond got so much less time- is it because the girl he impregnated was "willing?" and therefore his actions were not as heinous in jury's eyes?
ReplyDeleteRaymonds offense was before an 2005 law that enhanced this particular crime to a first degree felony.
ReplyDeleteI think his Bigamy charge is still first degree but we'll see.
Allan committed his act AFTER the law was changed so it is first degree, plus LE actually warned them at the ranch to avoid this illegal behavior, it was ignored by that perfect guy wassisname and of course all his associates at YF Zippers.
thanks for the explanation- I cannot keep track of everything but surely am grateful the flds is being dealt with in TX better than elsewhere- may the LORD grant many more convictions in 2010, (and much deliverance in 2010 through the Cross of Christ alone, for the many enslaved flds (heart,body, and mind-slaves) as well!!-Nothing is impossible with Christ-Yes, Merry Christmas! God bless.
ReplyDeletewhat do you think Jesus will say to you when have taken judgment into your own hands? for it is written; leave judgment to me, for it is mine.
ReplyDeleteFalse teachings of all kinds, throughout history, all over the world, are based upon anything that does not acknowledge the death of Christ,(who alone was called "The Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world") as completely sufficient for the forgiveness of mankind's sins. Therefore, flds beliefs are just one false system of a multitude of false belief systems, where many other "particulars" and specific behaviors and conditions are required to satisfy Almighty God for one's sin debt. Before Christ's death, faithful Jews WERE commanded by God to closely observe a very specific animal sacrifice system, which went on for many centuries. That demanding system was a foreshadowing of the blood finally shed by the only sinless person who ever lived- Jesus Christ. Read the New Testament.Since Christ came to earth, lived His sinless life, allowed Himself to be sacrificed for us, and clearly identified Himself as the One True Messiah (who will one day return to earth,) there have been many, many false belief systems. These sprang up very early in earth's history, pagan rituals, idol worship, etc, and they are still numerous today in many forms. Flds focuses on strict and often cruel behaviors, such as polygamy and "prophet" obedience(to the degree of worship of the prophet)for "salvation," yet the Bible,correctly read, without twisting it, clearly condemns such things as sin.It is quite sad that people like Joseph Smith clouded people's thinking so much that critical, clear Biblical teachings became secondary to his personal desires, which he cloaked as "commandments from God." It is all typical false-doctrine thought patterning(at which Smith excelled.)He used fabricated, powerful Bible-sounding phrases to "command" sin and make it sound like something sacrificial and necessary.Despicable!
ReplyDeleteIn Canada, Saskatchewan province, Polygamy is legal.
ReplyDeleteThey use section 51 of their marital property act to legalize multiple /plural marriage like relationships.
Head for Saskatchewan!
Note: best to call them first and see that they agree to no prosecution.
Again, if any part of North America allows polygamists free entry from other places,due to their "religious beliefs," and continues to allow currently resident polygamists in NA to go unpunished, there are going to be a lot more expensive problems for which law-abiding people's taxes will get used.The cycle of expensive court battles, arguing, and miseries which go along with most polygamy will just continue, grow, and fester. The practice was never legal in North America for excellent reasons. This is just terrible to watch people harking back to this backward, demeaning way of living,arguing for "rights" to do it as if it is something noble,valuable and worthy- far from it!
ReplyDeletethank you
ReplyDelete