Friday, September 15, 2006
His Favorite Wife
Does anyone know this gal, or have they read her book? I've never even heard of it until today when I read this article, and it will appear at 10 AM on ABC Keith Ablow show some point in the future. I've never heard of Keith Ablow either.
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58 comments:
Found this podcast from California Western School of Law. It's pretty short, nothing earth shattering, but I learned that Utah has a 'common law' marriage law, and that was how they prosecuted Tom Green. I wasn't aware of that.
This is the little schpeel from the website that has the podcast.
"Associate Dean Janet Bowermaster discusses the case against polygamist Warren Jeffs, along with legal and cultural aspects of polygamy"
The first half of the podcast is another issue, half way through they switch topics to the one above.
It surprised me how accurate and fairly the Professor described the practice of polygamy. I thought her answers to the quetions were very good.
Why does everyone think that just because one person lived a bad relationship in a plural marriage that ALL other plural relationships are based on this same abuse?
ALL FLDS Men KNOW that if they don't treat their wives right, that they will be removed and given to one another who WILL treat them right.
Uncle Roy said:
"The time will come when some men will get to the other side and find out that they are all alone, because the Lord will ask his Women how they were treated. And then they will be given a chanch to be placed by a rightious Man who can take them on into eternity"
The Prophet Brigham Young said:
"This Law of Plural Marriage, will DAMN more than it will save". Simply because SOME MEN will not LIVE it in the spirit that it was intended.
I have read this book and just COULD NOT PUT IT DOWN until I finished it. It is one of the BEST books I have read by a women who escaped a polygamous marriage that she found to not be the life she wanted to lead.
I would recommend this book to anyone who wants to know more about abuses in a polyamous marriage.
Susan was married to Verlan LeBaron. She suffered a lot and decided that this was NOT a life she wanted to endure for herself or her children.
You can buy Susan's book at HisFavoriteWife.com
Check out this book, you won't be dissapointed. I promise.
I hope that Oprah Winfrey will read this book and recommend it to EVERYONE. This book will really make an impact on you.
Anon 10:11
EVERYONE does not think that ALL polygamous relationships are bad.
You will notice (I bring this up for CTR's sake) that both of your quotes have reference to the hereafter. Neither of these men were speaking of women being taken away from men in this life. This indicates a change to me. The authority that warren has been willing to assume over his fellow man is a huge change in our religion.
Remember that the LeBaron group turned away from the (True Priesthood)work, because they had their own idea on how to do things.
I'm not suprised that this woman was abused. Her Husband was an abusive man from the get go. He was led by an evil spirit.
FTTC - so men were not booted out and their wives reassigned prior to warren, or just not as frequently?
Every time there has been a major split within the group such as in the '50s and the '80s there have been women who did not follow their husbands one way or the other. Some of them were remarried on both sides. At each split there were people that used the circumstances to fulfill thier spite against certain individuals. Sometimes against a family even. Charges were leveled, politics were played and unfortunately there were men railroaded out of the community. In some of the cases the leaders were influenced by designing men and the leaders were responsible for 'booting'. In some cases the men being railroaded just got tired of the BS and left on their own. Leroy Johnson was very lenient in his administration. Rulon Jeffs was less so.
It is interesting to me see that most of the Barlow patriarchs have been 'booted' as they were the leaders in most of the 'railroadings' until the day they got what was coming. What goes around comes around and it someday will bite the men that are pushing the agenda today.
More in answer to your question; hardly ever were women remarried immediately prior to warren, and mostly it was to provide for the women and children that were left without support. The reassignment definitely did not take place nearly as often. But, yes it did happen. I know of several cases where women were married to men that were unfaithful and they were counseled by the leaders to try to work things out for the sake of the children. One case was a women married to a man that would take the family earnings and spend them on nightly binges with the bottle. He was not physically abusive and the family did not starve to death but they were always impoverished. The woman asked for a release and could not get it. Perhaps she would have eventually but the man drank himself to death and relieved the family of the problem. My point is that it was much harder to get out of a marriage prior to the warren period.
As far as I remember, before Uncle Warren became the Prophet, men were only asked out if they commited adultry, or turned against the priesthood.
Thanks fttc (9:14)-
But your 10:34 is filled with nonsense. The prophet has never been influenced by politics. Even from family. Your faith in the prophet was weak even then. You ARE one of those who think Uncle Roy and Uncle Rulon were being run by the Barlow boys. That comes from jealousy, and history has proven otherwise.
"If persecution comes from the outside to this people again, it will be because of the iniquity within this body of people. It won't be because of hatred of men and women outside. Why? Because you have had enough knowledge given to you from this stand to put into your hearts enough knowledge of God and His work to keep the evil out of here if you would put it into practice... And the time is coming when the Lord is going to ask us to invite men and women out who do not obey and are not worthy of the blessings of eternal life"
(LSJ 2/12/67)
“Still I will venture to say that there are as many wise ones as foolish. But many will have to separate from their own family connections, if they do not do better. Parents and children will have to separate, and husbands and wives, ere long." (Brigham Young JD 3:338)
CTR
Enlighten me. Where has history proven otherwise?
Jealousy?! I wouldn't trade places with them for anything in the world. Then or now.
and you could not trade places with any one; fttc. God has a place prepared especialy for you.
As He does each one of us. I am in that place now and when I pass over I want to able to face him and say I did the best I could with what he gave me. That is why I had to part ways with warren and his agenda. Where is the room for jealousy? I am content with what He has made of me.
Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha peace in Zion? Sure sounds like peace!
Have women ever been told to repent from afar? I doubt it, ater all they have no soul, they are just like brood sows in the FLDS eyes.
That wasn't me OTS, that was De Darling.
You people can believe whatever you want, you can see through the mud you put in your own eyes.
The rumors are not true, no matter how much you want them to be.
CTR
What was your WILL that caused ou to have to repent from afar?
Are you one of those hundreds who write to Jeffs begging forgivness, sending money for his support only to have the envelope opened, the cash taken and the message never even given consideration. Boy, that's some kind of love from your profit!
CTR
When people say "It's all a lie" it reminds me of Squealer the pig saying everything against Napolean was a lie. Now, does one unfounded rumor make ALL rumors unfounded?
If I willfully follow Jesus I am obedient to His voice.
Jesus said, "My sheep know my voice." Am I in error for willingly following my Lord?
ots - you willfully you write these schpeels, and how willfully you castigate others, and how willfull you are that your ideas/perceptions are the only right ones.
Funny how someone could say that U. Roy and U. Rulon would not be swayed by politics or family...and yet as a mother or father can you say you are not swayed by your children? As a teacher can you say you are not swayed by your students? The "prophets" are no different.
Your lexicon of helpful comments is as useful as a scorpion being used as a wash cloth.
You haven't a clue as to the connection between myself and other Christians, the relationship we share, nor my relationship with God. Since you worship many gods you have no clue as to the one I AM. Rant on McDuff!
If your belief was monotheistic, believing the One God with three purposes than we could hold an intellignt dialog. But, since you claim that your god is Adam or Michael or any of your other worship figures, and if you deny the power of Warren Jeffs and his predecessors as being superior to I AM and the Lord Jesus we could talk on a level playing field. But, since your persons and values are entirely different from mine, and Christendom's, this give and take correspondence relates only to your man made stand-in in the place of legitimate diety and I here I refer to the ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD, creator, sustainer and savior of the world and of all His creation.
You don't know GOD, you know about a supreme being, but have never submitted your pride to submission and worship of the Allmighty. Your salvation is self produced. If I believed your odd theology, the death and resurection of Jesus would have no purpose and no meaning except recognition than a good man died and came to America to visit a group of Indians who no reputable scholar or archeologist can identify as to time or place.
These are but a few of the absolutes that prohibit our having a meaningful conrrespondence. This silly exchange is becoming a bore to all who take the time to read our exchanges and rebuttals.
We are addressing two different subjects, one I AM vs. a multitude of want-to-be gods attempting to create a perfect haven on earth. It's not going to happen.
This post is not a castigation of anyone. It is an attempt to help you understand that we can't come to any agreement unless we come to an agreement as to whom GOD is.
I admit to occasional error, but not when I am addressing you. I will not admit error because my doctrine is sound and is directly from the one and only divinly inspired and inerrant Word of God.
Oh I can read it now. You will jump right on to my inerrant belief. Are there errors in the printed text of a particular translation? Probably, but the WORD, revealed through the HOLY SPIRIT is without error. And the WORD was in the beginning with GOD and the WORD was GOD.
Much more secure credentials than produced by Joseph Smith, Sidney Rigdon, Martin Harris, Oliver Cowdery, Reuben Hale, Brigham Young, John Taylor, Roy Johnson or the most notorious of them all, with the probable exceptions of Smith, Rigdon & Cowdrey, Warren Jeffs.
How thin the ice of "truth" upon which you skate.
My Jesus is larger than your Jesus. He was in God at creatiion, He is in the Holy Spirit as He (the Spirit) ministers to my needs and guides me daily.
He is the only begotten of GOD the FATHER. He is not an angel nor was he ever an angel.
Satan was a created angel who, because of his rebelous nature was cast from heaven with a third of the created angelic host. He was never a Son of GOD.
aww heck, wrong blog
One GOD, three PERSONS. Sound, factual revelent, scriptural, doctrinal, and beyond argument. The only way to deny the Trinity is to dispel the theology as a lie. I believe in the Trinity as i described it above. Are you willing to take the chance and deny it?
144,000 with GOD'S name written upon their foreheads. Do you supposed that these individuals in all probably have met GOD'S qualifications to be call HIS own and thus bear HIS mark? Or, perhaps these 144,000 represent 12,000 from each of the tribes of Israel who are set aside to be saved from the wrath of the Great Tribulation? Take your choice.
Obadiah 21:
Topic: Judgement of Edom
(saviors) (plural) Refers to deliverers not The Savior. One clue is the simple fact that the word saviors is not capitalized, therfore should be considered an adjective, not a noun.
Well OTS at least you confessed to your willfullness, which is a sin you know, according to your own post above.
All the "prophets" from Joseph to now have proven to be mortal men. Uncle Rulon certainly didn't get translated and live in the flesh to 320 years old. They all have gotten sick. They all sleep, eat, etc. They all have DNA and were made of carbon-based molecules. I don't see how the "prophets" are any different from other mortal men. Not one of them yet has lived to be translated and take upon themselves a state of matter that can't be harmed by disease or pain.
ots & mugs-
you cannot prove your faith. Faith is not Fact. Else why would there be unbelievers?
"For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." (1 Cor 13:9-12)
12:37-
Enoch, Moses, and Elijah were mortal prophets who were translated. Uncle Rulon will live in the millennium for 320 years. He and Job.
"For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me." (Job 19:25-27)
CTR
CTR wrote
"Faith is not Fact"
Mark Twain wrote
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so."
What you don't understand CTR is that I don't have to prove my faith to you or anyone else. I can't speak for ots. It is GOD who is judge, not you or any of your fellowship of agonists.(spelling on purpose) In other words, your agony over my eternal soul is appreciated but unnecessary. I am in GOD'S hands, and I for one, can't think of a better place to be.
Mark Twain also wrote that mormonism is akin to chloriform, it lulls you to sleep before finally snuffing out your life.
Faith is a belief in something you cannot see.
I would say Mark Twain was attempting to get a response when he made that quote, or was perhaps poking fun at the religious folk of his day. He's a literary wonder, but no theologian.
You can't have faith in something you know to be untrue - it's the antithesis of faith. It makes for a snappy quote, but doesn't pencil out.
It was an observation Twain made concerning the ambiguity he saw demonstrated by mormons.
Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Jesus reminded his followers that IF they had faith, the size of a mustard seed, they could speak to a mountain and it would be removed. I've never seen that type of faith demonstrated, but I have seen many examples of faith rewarded. There is not enough room of this blog to list them all.
Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen, the moving cause of all action; and a principle of power.
The reason we do everything that we do is because of faith in something.
Faith in God is the power to do right.
You cannot have faith in something you know to be true. Knowledge is faith fulfilled.
CTR
Where in the world, or hades, did you come up with the idea that you cannot have faith in something you know to be true. In the first place you had to discover that faith was the means whereby you proved the truth of the issue. My GOD will never leave me nor forsake me. That is a truthful fact, I believe it to be absolute truth. My acceptance of that fact assists me in knowing that whenever I step out on faith the first 'footstep' is entering 'space', an uncharted area for me. Faith is proven to be more secure with each additional step I take. I demonstrate my faith by walking with GOD. My strength is IN HIM, not my own ability. For that reason it is called FAITH. I don't know all the circumstance nor can I see the end result, but I know that HE accompanies each step I take.
Faith is reasonable belief. LDS dogma teach that faith ripens into knowledge, but once it is knowledge, it is no longer faith.
If I jump out of an airplane, I have faith my parachute will work. After I land, I have knowledge that it worked. Blind faith would be jumping out of the plane without a 'chute expecting God to land you safely. I think too many people have blind faith in their leader; the things he is doing isn't reasonable, and in many cases is just as deadly to their family as jumping out of a plane without a 'chute.
Muggsey,
You said:
"My GOD will never leave me nor forsake me. That is a truthful fact, I believe it to be absolute truth."
This is your opinion, it is not a fact. A fact is something that can be proven.
You, (and many of the posters here) present your theological opinions as if they are absolute fact with no indication of the possibility that you could be wrong.
Many people in this world have very different beliefs than yours and yet they are every bit as convinced of theirs as you are of yours. Someone has to be wrong.
You have stated in past posts that you are human and as a human you are capable of being wrong. So let's consider the possibility that you could be wrong about your religious beliefs.
What if someone was on the right path to God but is swayed by what you present as fact and turns away from the right path.
Now, I am not saying that you are going down the wrong path. I don't know and, if you are honest, you would have to admit that you don't know either. You have your strong opinions but so do the people that have apposing viewpoints to yours and yet are every bit as convinced that they are right.
It appears that you are trying very hard to convert others to you religious beliefs. If you are wrong, don't you think that you will be held accountable if you are guiding someone down the wrong path by presenting your ideas as if they are fact?
TRUTH SHOULD BE PARAMOUNT!
anon 5:14 (TRUTH SHOULD BE PARAMOUNT)
Thanks for saying that! My thoughts on this matter are very similar.
There is no such thing as a "belief" (religious or otherwise) being "fact" until such "belief" is proven for all to see. Same with "opinion."
No one can prove there is a god let alone that he or she wrote a bible, a quoran a BOM, or whatever.
I like paraphrasing Genesis: "Man created God in his own image."
Spot on.
It is faith, pure and simple. But I think it might be asking too much of any person, with deep religious faith, to admit their faith might be wrong.
It's the antithesis of faith to do that. If you allow yourself to believe you might be wrong, then your faith is not strong - a catch 22 of sorts.
So on an intellectual level, I can see the point, but on a faith based level - I just can't allow myself to go there. Does that make sense?
His Favorite Wife by Susan Ray Schmidt is one of the best books I've read in a long time and not just because it's about polygamy. I literally couldn't put it down. The author did a wonderful job telling her story, to the point that I experienced her saga, walked in her footstep, so to speak. My emotions were impacted...I laughed, I cried, I became angry and jealous; I felt her pain. I applaud her courage to escape, as a young 22 year-old with five children. I envy her strength. Her story shed light on what many of the women experience as a polygamous wife. This book needs to be read and shared with all young polygamous girls, before they commit to a life of plural marriage. They deserve to know the truth about what they're getting themselves into. The sad truth is that many will not be allowed to read the book. It's time something is done to help these young women. It would be great if Oprah would open that door by backing this book.
His Favorite Wife by Susan Ray Schmidt is one of the best books I've read in a long time and not just because it's about polygamy. I literally couldn't put it down. The author did a wonderful job telling her story, to the point that I experienced her saga, walked in her footstep, so to speak. My emotions were impacted...I laughed, I cried, I became angry and jealous; I felt her pain. I applaud her courage to escape, as a young 22 year-old with five children. I envy her strength. Her story shed light on what many of the women experience as a polygamous wife. This book needs to be read and shared with all young polygamous girls, before they commit to a life of plural marriage. They deserve to know the truth about what they're getting themselves into. The sad truth is that many will not be allowed to read the book. It's time something is done to help these young women. It would be great if Oprah would open that door by backing this book.
Did anyone watch the Dr. Ablow show about polygamy that aired Sept. 28th? Dr. Ablow portrayed support FOR polygamy yet it’s quite obvious that what was shown to viewers was atypical. The people on the show were not representative of MOST polygamous families. Many delivered canned answers that signal brainwashing, in the name of religion, probably stemming from childhood. Religion or no religion, Mormon or not Mormon, the simple truth is that most polygamous “girls” marry much older men before they have an opportunity to know what they want for themselves and before they have an opportunity to choose a religion. Many are naive and marry out of respect for their elders, without understanding, and often against their hearts’ desires. They are raised in small colonies and towns, shielded from outside influences, including education in many cases. They become trapped, often without strength and confidence in their abilities to escape their environment. Where is their Freedom of Religion?
I wonder if you’d support polygamy if you had an in-depth knowledge of what the life style is really like in many of these polygamous homes. By chance, have you read “His Favorite Wife: Trapped in Polygamy”? It’s a new, wonderful book that tells the other side of polygamy in an unbiased, straightforward manner. I challenge Dr. Ablow to portray this other side and let his viewers decide for themselves if children are abused and trapped. -------------------------------------------
It’s time something is done to help these children find their freedom to choose.
I've read the book. It's powerful! Good for Susan Ray Schmidt. She's amazing for telling her story to the world. Clearly, children deserve better. Our laws need to protect their freedom of religion, meaning we need to give the children and young teens the freedom to choose BEFORE they marry, have babies, become trapped. Child abuse and oppression is what it is. Hiding behind religion is shameful.
Friends and those who think my faith an empty shell.
You are forgetting. I testify about MY faith. I don't know about yours or anyone else's. I take GOD'S word as being true, without error and am, as far as I can understand, following HIS lead. Anything that I can't understand and willing to test, I am taking by faith. Of course a faith experience produces a known fact. But, would you, not using faith, be willing otherwise to trust what you believe to be GOD'S leading? It is being willing to follow what you can't see, what you do not know, but believe to be true that is a test of faith. If you know, and follow along, that is fact or previous knowledge.
I doubt I'd change my mind about polygamy by watching a few happy folk tell me about their lives.
I've visted that blog about the fellow with the two wives, very progressive polygamy, he vacations here with this one, and there with that one, and currently he wants another. Honestly, I think the guys a horn dog and the women are probably sexually excited by the whole set up somehow.
I just don't see how sharing the one person on earth who's supposed to be my best friend for life, my partner, my lover, the father of my children would make me happy.
I don't think every person would be happy living monogomous, and I don't think every person would be happy living polygamous. I think it's something that you have to decide for yourself, and NO ONE ELSE should decide for you, or exert any pressure over you to make the decision THEY want you to make.
Some people will never be happy, some people could be happy wherever you place them - we're all unique.
weak-nees,
You should really make up your mind as to your stance on the issue you just discussed. You must be learning something from atar_i and my contributions to this blog. You just stated exactly my continuing and unchanging stance relating to faith, and grace. But, you failed to emphasize the responsability of the living Christian to demonstrate GOD'S Good Works to HIS glory.
I can name three
(1) Wine
(2) Women
(3) Dance
psychotic rambling.
Scratch-away! You'd know more about that malady than I.
Whence come these voices you hear so frequently? Do you see bright lights, yellow and orange, and a cacophony of unintelligible utterances? Obviously you've blown a fuse. If not, try it, I'll bet you'll love the experience. You've gone beyond normal psychological help, shock treatments are your only chance. Call 911! Tell them to be sure to bring a strait-jacket.
Wet you finger and stick it into an live electric outlet. Your batteries need to be re-charged.
OK - I would say this is sexually perverted, free word association OTS. If this is part of the collage of posters using OTS - is it Nathaniel, Bradshaw, Laurene or Val?
I have a difficult time imagining Laurene posting as OTS
Old potty fingers at work again! The more he stirs, the worse it stinks.
Gee street I was feeling sorry for you up till now.Clean it up.
? It's your moral fiber that is being questioned. For months now it seems as if you can hardly post without an illusion to something specfically sexual in nature. Not wholsome nor informative but lewd and insulting.
Street's Definition of FLDS Sexual Purity:
Be too holy to have intercourse with your wife, but sneak out to a titty bar on the sly, or look at pornography on the web; also, don't forget to take a few women from those that are less worthy than yourself.
Don't think for one second that some of the X's haven't spied on some titty bars and observed a few holies going there.
It's quite clear that OTS isn't a pure man.
I can't imagine my father, husband, or any decent man spouting the sexual impurities that he does, and so easily on this board.
Street, the titty-bar, internet porno individuals referred to are still raking in women from less worthy individuals. They're not X's yet. The prophets "revelation" is less accurate than some of the X's spying, because he hasn't caught them yet.
anon,is it because he hasnt caught them yet,or because they pay a worthey tithe?
just wondering,Bluebeard.
ots
Per your 10/31 8:41 PM post.
Yes sexual purity is wholesome. Now when are your postings going to demonstrate wholesomeness and purity?
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