FLDS Prophet Warren Jeffs may be serving life in prison, but his followers continue with their work on the YFZ Ranch near Eldorado, Texas where the group's white limestone Temple towers over the town they are building. Polygamy, the practice of plural marriage, appears to be alive and well in the Lone Star State, despite laws to the contrary.
Tuesday, August 15, 2006
Brigham Young on Atonement
"There are sins that men commit for which they cannot receive forgiveness in this world, or in that which is to come, and if they had their eyes open to see their true condition, they would be perfectly willing to have their blood spilt upon the ground, that the smoke thereof might ascend to heaven as an offering for their sins; and the smoking incense would atone for their sins, whereas, if such is not the case, they will stick to them and remain upon them in the spirit world."I know, when you hear my brethren telling about cutting people off from the earth, that you consider it is strong doctrine; but it is to save them, not to destroy them...."And further more, I know that there are transgressors, who, if they knew themselves, and the only condition upon which they can obtain forgiveness, would beg of their brethren to shed their blood, that the smoke thereof might ascend to God as an offering to appease the wrath that is kindled against them, and that the law might have its course. I will say further; I have had men come to me and offer their lives to atone for their sins."It is true that the blood of the Son of God was shed for sins through the fall and those committed by men, yet men can commit sins which it can never remit.... There are sins that can be atoned for by an offering upon an altar, as in ancient days; and there are sins that the blood of a lamb, or a calf, or of turtle dove, cannot remit, but they must be atoned for by the blood of the man." (Sermon by Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, pages 53-54); also published in the Mormon Church's Deseret News, 1856, page 235)
Hey, why do entire threads up and vanish? What happened to the thread on the Constitution and Bill of Rights? Did it have something in it that the original poster disagreed with? So he takes liberty to erase it?
ReplyDeleteThe point is, fundy, why do you enjoy destroying threads?
ReplyDeleteI think fundy is just a troll that likes to get conversations started and then enjoys purging the whole thread for sport.
ReplyDeleteWarning to all posters:
ReplyDeleteIf you want your comments left on the blog do not place them on any of Fundy's threads. He has repeatedly deleted threads on which he does not like the direction of the dialogue.
Fundy,
ReplyDeleteI don't believe you.
IITMOC
If there is no interest in a thread, let it survive and be in the archives. If there is interest, let the dialog continue.
ReplyDeleteThat doesn't hold water at all. There are threads on here by you Fundy that have had no comments for several days at least and never had many to begin with. Why are they still up but one that is active and had over 60 posts is deleted? I agree with Anon 9:33.
ReplyDeleteWho do you think you are Fundy? Your threads are so completely boring except to OTS and Muggsey. My two cents says shut the *&)^%^& up.
ReplyDeleteAustin
Fundypretending the faithful never lived polygamy or ever defended it as a commandment from God
ReplyDeleteNonsense! What total, complete and utter hogwash!
Fundy Likes to Erase all his threads. Start a new thread if you want to discuss this topic - or start a mirror thread that won't be deleted.
ReplyDeleteIf fundy deletes this thread - IT WILL NOT SURVIVE IN ANY ARCHIVES, IT WILL BE DUST in the wind.
This is still here? Rest of my reply is in Atar_i's thread.
ReplyDeletefundy is lying he deletes threads that he cannot respond to
ReplyDeleteFundy,
ReplyDeleteSince you insist on bringing up this blood atonement issue, I have a simple question.
In the days of Jesus, a woman was brought before him because she had committed certain sins that in that day made her worthy to be stoned to death (kind of similar to blood atonement, is it not). I hope you know what His reply was. Now I think Jesus had it right, and the woman wasn't "atoned", but was actually forgiven if she would forsake her sins and do them no more. When did we rise above Jesus to the point that we can judge other (I thought we were to forgive all and leave judgement to the Lord) and when did we become so pure and perfect that we are sine free to the point that metaphorically speaking we can “cast the first stone”?
IITMOC
Fundy,
ReplyDeleteThe FLDS does not belive in "assisted suicide". But does believe in blood atonement. There is a difference.
Think of it this way. Jesus Christ died on the cross in atonement for sin. Was his death suicide? NO!
There are men who cannot be forgiven without blood atonement, but God will take care of it Himself, without me.
CTR
CTR,
ReplyDeleteClarification please.
Are you saying you don't believe what Brother Brigham said?
IITMOC
Will warren be forgiven? Should we blood atone him? If anyone deserves it, it would be him. No need to use stones a 45 would do just fine.
ReplyDeleteI am married to one of Warrens realitives.The things I have been told about alta academey, give credit to Brents story.
anon 3:26 PM,
ReplyDeleteWhile I don't agree with much of what Warren has done, are we any better than he if we want to destroy him. I would like to see his actions in tearing apart families stopped, but I think judgement should be in the hands of someone greater than us all. He has only been able to do what he has done because we have let him. When each of us individually says "I have had enough, you are not doing this to me or mine" only then will he (or the leaders after him) be stopped.
Unfortunately, the FLDS religion has taught dependancy and the members have bought into it to such an extent that many will not or dare not think for themselves, but can only do what their “priesthood head” tells them. Many of the men who have had their families removed, and most of the men who have married other men’s wives feel they are doing the Lord’s will because their “priesthood head” told them so. If the conscience tries to speak, they will immediately “sacrifice” those feelings because “the prophet speaks for the Lord, and will not lead the people astray”. They excuse their actions because the “lord” has commanded it and He has the right to organize His family as He sees fit.
Now while we are all children of the Lord, if this family swapping were correct doctrine, the “one man” must then be our only true father on earth and the rest of the men in the FLDS are nothing more than sperm donors to his family. Until the men wake up and realize God gave them a conscience and a brain and expects them to use them in taking care of their own stewardship, and that they alone will be accountable unto Him for how they treat their wives and raise their children, this crazy mess which we now witness will not be stopped.
For the record, I have forgiven Warren. Just keep in mind, it is not only him, but a flawed paradigm that the FLDS is operating under.
IITMOC
I went to Alta Academy, if you give credit to Brents story, you too will also believe an obvious lie.
ReplyDeleteanon 12:21 did you acompany him to the bathroom *every time*, or just the times he "wasn't molested"? OR are you a girl, and didn't get to go in for the 'extra special lavoratory tuoring sessions' at all?
ReplyDeletep.s. don't make stupid statements like that. You weren't with Brent 24/7 and for all I know you could be warren 'the molestor'.
What's so obvious about the lie? When I see someone with more piety than common sense, I smell a rat. George A. Smith was referring to immoral people in the context of the following:
ReplyDeleteJ of D 7:116
When a man professes a great deal of sanctity ── a great deal of holiness and piety, ── when he can scarcely speak without a pious groan, he is to be suspected; for such hypocrisy is in itself the most cursed corruption that can exist.
No I wasnt with Brent 24/7 or with Warren 24/7, but DUH! I went to Alta, Warren has children the same age as Brent, and some older(only daughters), I knew Brent, he was a pretty happy kid, I knew Ward, he was always trying to get Warren to give his children exceptions to the rules.
ReplyDeleteATARI- IF what I said was stupid, then the fact that you believe someone who believes heresay about Alta Academy is STUPIDITY at its best.
Warren never was pious around me, never once boasted, he was anxious to help. He never once talked down to me. I cannot say the same about Ward.
Believe what you want, just dont be surprised in the end. Don't be stupid.
George A Smith was referring to William Law, who pretended to be righteous by talking down to people, yet was a dishonest, deceptive, Judas like apostate.
ReplyDeleteCTR
OTS - you're going to have to reference anything you want to quote.
ReplyDeleteYour a liar and a twister - I wont' take your word for anything.
Reference it (with a link) or don't bother posting it as any shade of truth.
hey street!
ReplyDeleteWarren is in jail. If you ARE Warren you probably have figured that out by now.
See my post on the above thread re. "Legalizing Polygamy."
ReplyDeleteSee my post on the above thread re. "Leagalizing Polygamy."
ReplyDelete